Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[Lhorn 4970]

I like my eccentric billionaires to try flying around the world in a hot air balloon and rocketing shit into space. I’m not nuts about billionaires in 12,000 sq ft houses driving gold plated Bugatti’s lecturing common folks about excess and conservation. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Lhorn

[52-80 19271]

39 minutes ago, JimmyGlass said:

. 

By the time the S came out and was clearly a hit ALL major car companies were trying to make an entry level EV car.  All of them.  Chevy had been working on the Volt for 5+ years before that, and it came out and was a piece of shit.

You realize Nissan beat them to the punch by 2 years, don't you?  And outproduced and outsold them, even before taking into account Renault numbers. 

 

And this is with the challenge of actually staying profitable.  They didn't have the luxury of putting 200k into a 100k car to attract the silicon valley crowd.

[maninblack 7974]

Lol OP is a douche

[Constant 6755]

12 hours ago, smuggs said:

 

Jesus dude.

 

 

Look at all that talk they have accomplished. No big deal whatsoever. 

[hayden_horn 11365]

here is the thing that cracks me up: the cult of personality around the guy. the number of fanboys and haters. it does remind me of jobs.

just like the rest of us, these dudes have flaws and have genius. our genius may be around managing household income or inventing something amazing or managing a large number of people or art. it can be damn near anything. 

the difference between us and polarizing public figures is the public part. and, for some reason, especially in america, that can be an important thing. this guy has made a lot of hay be being a bit of a visionary on things. his tesla operation really is amazing. the biggest problem he faces there is the waiting list (PRODUCTION) vs scalability. he started (rightfully, imo) on the high end EV product. his failure has been on bringing that to the actual public. teslas are not accessible to the real people. and now that he wants to do that, he cannot scale. he is not henry ford. and that's okay, except that he wants to be.

his spacex shit is amazing. it really is. i was on the old board in awe of those two rockets landing. rockets are supposed to be outbound only, not back inbound. that's amazing innovation. it really is.

but we cannot avoid his habit of circus ringleaderism. his behavior on that investor call last quarter is enough for me to write him off as a genius who should not be in charge of anything, because his identity is too closely tied to his perceived success, which is a problem. the real measure of an executive is to see that their identity is tied to real success rather than perceived. that means owning your failures. it's okay to fail. that's capitalism. failure breeds innovation.

i feel like he's a guy flying too closely to the sun. i also felt like netflix was on the cusp of failure. so my opinion is likely stupid. his business acumen is tied closely to public dollars. i work in an industry where that is also the case. and yet, the people in my industry, while taking advantage of public dollars, also succeed on their own account. and they don't try to live a bruce wayne/tony stark lifestyle. they work hard and make good decisions so their business can succeed. that's where elon breaks down in my analysis. i don't want him to fail. i want him to be less of a douche. but if you succeed at business, i won't begrudge you being a bruce wayne/tony stark douche. but first your balance sheet has to, uh, balance. that's where jobs has him.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

14 hours ago, Quagmire said:

Did he fuck your mom or something ?
 

Yeah, he did. She said he was Boring Company. 

[Guest]

I don’t have strong thoughts on Musk one way or the other.  Like most everyone else I thought the space x launches and reentries were amazing.  He does seem to make outlandish claims at times (I remember in one interview he claimed the we could terraform mars by having numerous cyclical nuclear detonations at both of the poles) but it seems extreme to call him a fraud as he actually does work to deliver things.  

But however you view him, I think the following comic about him is pretty funny and also the twitter fight that inspired it, which is linked at the bottom of the comic. 

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/other/17

[Dahobbs 17701]

33 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yeah, he did. She said he was Boring Company. 

Again, cannot address any of the numerous flaws in your bullshit rant.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Falcon Heavy is nowhere near capable of taking humans into space.

We were told humans would be taking moon orbit tours by now. 

NASA's SLS can carry about twice the payload of cargo. 

And...

Quote

The crewed version of SLS that will launch Orion can carry the equivalent volume of a 1,600-square-foot home in addition to Orion. The combination of lifting power and volume means that the SLS can carry large segments or pieces of infrastructure into space with one launch, rather than having to design smaller elements that must then be assembled in space.  

As a result, the use of the SLS reduces complexity, both on the ground and in space. Reduced complexity means a reduced chance of error and difficulty with assembly — whether we’re talking about space infrastructure or a sports car. Neither the Falcon Heavy nor any other existing rocket comes close the capabilities of SLS for Deep Space missions.

Ultimately, there is a key simple truth that underscores the differences between Falcon Heavy and SLS: Falcon Heavy belongs to Elon Musk, and SLS belongs to the American people. SLS asserts the leadership position of the United States, adding to our soft power in a way that a commercial rocket never could. In addition, using SLS for deep space missions ensures future discoveries will be available to all, not held exclusively by one company. 

 

NASA is gonna clean his clock on the space front the same way the major auto companies are gonna destroy him on self-driving cars. NASA and the majors don't promise what they can't deliver. They don't write checks with their mouths that their asses can't cash, and that is all Musk ever does. 

[52-80 19271]

Fart?

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by 52-80

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

19 hours ago, Parliament said:

That effete ahole can't hold Tesla's jockstrap.

Space X is a good venture.  Tesla Motors is a joke.  They have a bigger market cap than Ford?!  Gonna be fun watching them crash.

Sadly, he was close to a great idea.  Become the lithium-ion battery supplier of choice, work with car companies to standardize quick charging, and work with gas stations, hotels, etc to install them.  In other words be the "Intel" inside of hybrid and electric vehicles.  Stay out of sight and do the hard work in the background.

He created the mainstream market for electric cars in the U.S. by making them cool status symbols. Big auto was stuck in their mindset as to what e-cars should be and gave us Volt, Leaf, etc. There would be a next to zero market, to be the Intel for, without Tesla making desirable e-cars that changed the public's perception of e-cars. Tesla has 75% of the U.S. e-car market sales.

Edited July 15, 2018 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Eastwood 4394]

He certainly needs to step away from twitter. 
With respect to the deadlines... say it would take some most companies 10 years to design and make a new widget.  The CEO of some other company says he can do it in 2 years.  He ends up being really late and in the end it takes him five years.  You dipshits would be screaming about how incompetent this guy is because he was 3!!?>!?! years late getting the new product to market - meanwhile the competition is just starting early phase prototype testing after five years. 
By the time the S came out and was clearly a hit ALL major car companies were trying to make an entry level EV car.  All of them.  Chevy had been working on the Volt for 5+ years before that, and it came out and was a piece of shit.  Since the S came out the X and the 3 have been released.  The entry level version of the 3 isnt available yet, but it clearly will be before any of the competitors are ready.
This idea that because he misses his self imposed deadlines then that means he is an incompetent business man is stupid.  He did it faster and thus far better than anyone else has. 
Are you not aware that putting other people's stuff into orbit is already a profitable industry? And SpaceX is has the lowest prices AND the highest margin per launch of any company.  He  starts in 2002 or whatever with SpaceX and $100MM and in ~15 years has completely destroyed the market - most of which is run by highly subsidized government defense contractors.  And you think  he is a fraud because he is annoying on twitter?

You are completely missing the point as to why deadlines are important. They are important because they affect the decision making process of investors and consumers. He completely whiffed on the 3 deadline and now thousands of people are possibly going to miss out on the tax major tax incentive for buying the vehicle. For some, that tax incentive made the vehicle affordable to them. Some people will lose a non-refundable deposit. Some people have been out thousands in payments for the car with nothing to show for it and might not have anything to show for it for another year. The idea that just because he's doing it faster than others that it's okay that he misses deadlines in absolutely hilarious. These aren't Friday night plans that he's flaking on. His words are the basis in which people are making financial decisions off of. Throwing shit against the wall to get people to part with their money is, essentially, fraud.

As to the Space X thing, my point is that he needs to get a couple of quarters, maybe even an entire year, of scaled back R&D budget to prove just how profitable it can be on its own. The cool tech is good and it is definitely serving its purpose, but what is the end game? Even more increased margins? By how much? What does the business look like with the current margins with a scaled back R&D budget? It would help with a cost benefit analysis for future R&D projects.

[Neonmoon 38130]

6 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Falcon Heavy is nowhere near capable of taking humans into space.

We were told humans would be taking moon orbit tours by now. 

NASA's SLS can carry about twice the payload of cargo. 

And...

 

NASA is gonna clean his clock on the space front the same way the major auto companies are gonna destroy him on self-driving cars. NASA and the majors don't promise what they can't deliver. They don't write checks with their mouths that their asses can't cash, and that is all Musk ever does. 

They don’t write checks at all. They are funded by the American People. If you haven’t noticed, we keep slashing funding to NASA. http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-nasa-moon-space-policy-directive-federal-funding-2017-12

Both Democrat and Republican administrations have cut NASA funding and directed them to use private companies. 

 

[Dahobbs 17701]

7 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Falcon Heavy is nowhere near capable of taking humans into space.

We were told humans would be taking moon orbit tours by now. 

NASA's SLS can carry about twice the payload of cargo. 

And...

 

NASA is gonna clean his clock on the space front the same way the major auto companies are gonna destroy him on self-driving cars. NASA and the majors don't promise what they can't deliver. They don't write checks with their mouths that their asses can't cash, and that is all Musk ever does. 

Try reading science articles on this and not political ones. NASA is struggling to find a purpose for the SLS. While it should be able to lift more once it is done (if it is ever done), and it does so only at tremendous additional expense. It is simply not a rocket you can use to perform the vast majority of launch tasks. It is essentially a highly specialized rocket that would only be used if we had a very heavy payload that for some reason can not be broken up to fit into multiple smaller and more efficient rockets. And, you should check out SpaceX's BFR. Falcon Heavy is really just a place holder until that is ready. And it will be ready well before the SLS. And, the block 5 Falcon rocket (not Falcon Heavy) will be certified for human travel by the end of the year. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Dahobbs

[Dahobbs 17701]

The new director of NASA essentially admitted that the SLS is more of a backstop than anything else (that and a jobs program). It does provide some unique capabilities, but it is not really practical to use for the vast majority of launches. 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/rocket-report-virgin-launch-license-europe-and-the-space-force-sls-purpose/

 

NASA Administrator ponders what to do with the SLS rocket. During a Q&A with Politico, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine was asked about how the space agency views commercial launch vehicles. His response: "As we move forward, we're going to have to maybe rethink... at what point do we start taking advantage of those commercial capabilities to the extent that they drive down cost, give us more capability, and what do we do with SLS?... We're not there yet, but certainly there's a horizon here. Is it 10 years? I don't know what the answer is, but what we can't do in my view is give up our government capability, our national capability, when we don't have an alternative."

Speaking of timelines ... NASA doesn't exactly have the "national capability" of the SLS rocket yet in the heavy-lift class, either. We've heard rumors of a slip to 2021 for the first launch date, in which case Blue Origin's New Glenn has a fighting chance to fly first, as SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket has already done.

 

[52-80 19271]

56 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

You are completely missing the point as to why deadlines are important. They are important because they affect the decision making process of investors and consumers. He completely whiffed on the 3 deadline and now thousands of people are possibly going to miss out on the tax major tax incentive for buying the vehicle. For some, that tax incentive made the vehicle affordable to them. Some people will lose a non-refundable deposit. Some people have been out thousands in payments for the car with nothing to show for it and might not have anything to show for it for another year. The idea that just because he's doing it faster than others that it's okay that he misses deadlines in absolutely hilarious. These aren't Friday night plans that he's flaking on. His words are the basis in which people are making financial decisions off of. Throwing shit against the wall to get people to part with their money is, essentially, fraud.

As to the Space X thing, my point is that he needs to get a couple of quarters, maybe even an entire year, of scaled back R&D budget to prove just how profitable it can be on its own. The cool tech is good and it is definitely serving its purpose, but what is the end game? Even more increased margins? By how much? What does the business look like with the current margins with a scaled back R&D budget? It would help with a cost benefit analysis for future R&D projects.

Yeap.  Anyone can engineer anything given enough resources.  (Except if that anyone is the government.)  But doing it within resource constraint (time, money, manpower) is the real hurdle.

For SpaceX, I suppose his advantage is that the competing parties are....the government.  The Lockheeds and Northrupps of the world (and their investors) arent willing to take such risks.  

So Musk: 

bold?  yes.  assured?  certainty.  visionary? i guess.  fraud?  why not. 

genius?  well that would be an absolute insult to the actual Tesla

Edited July 15, 2018 by 52-80

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, Eastwood said:

You are completely missing the point as to why deadlines are important. They are important because they affect the decision making process of investors and consumers. He completely whiffed on the 3 deadline and now thousands of people are possibly going to miss out on the tax major tax incentive for buying the vehicle. For some, that tax incentive made the vehicle affordable to them. Some people will lose a non-refundable deposit. Some people have been out thousands in payments for the car with nothing to show for it and might not have anything to show for it for another year. The idea that just because he's doing it faster than others that it's okay that he misses deadlines in absolutely hilarious. These aren't Friday night plans that he's flaking on. His words are the basis in which people are making financial decisions off of. Throwing shit against the wall to get people to part with their money is, essentially, fraud.

As to the Space X thing, my point is that he needs to get a couple of quarters, maybe even an entire year, of scaled back R&D budget to prove just how profitable it can be on its own. The cool tech is good and it is definitely serving its purpose, but what is the end game? Even more increased margins? By how much? What does the business look like with the current margins with a scaled back R&D budget? It would help with a cost benefit analysis for future R&D projects.

Deadlines are important. It is up to the consumers and investors to stop investing or purchasing his product if they do not like the product, efficiency of delivery, or return on investment. I’m sure they will at some point if things don’t change. I will say people who spend 100K and are willing to wait a year or more for delivery might be a different kind of car consumer than the average Joe...maybe. But until that happens or the “majors crush him”, then here we are. (Ignoring the obvious point of why Musk started Tesla begin with)

Throwing shit against the wall to get people to part with their money is, essentially, fraud.

Setting ambitious targets is not throwing shit against a wall. Should we go take a look at the Fortune 500 companies and see what goals they did not reach they said they would? Are they also committing fraud? They lied to investors to steal their money right?

The only difference is their goals of cutting back spending by 300 million and only realizing 100 million of that goal is not something you give a shit about. It’s sci-fi enough like a rocket or an electric car. 

 

[DanRydell 799]

He called one of the cave divers who was integral in the Thai rescue effort "pedo guy" on twitter this morning, so that's cool.

[Eastwood 4394]

And herein lies the crux of the debate. Using words like "ambitious" to describe how he has handled deadlines is nothing more than sunshine pumping. It may have been ambitious the first couple of times, but he's been doing this long enough for the average investor to know now that he is either lying or doesn't know what he is doing when it comes to the middle class car market. Let's set aside the whole luxury vehicle argument. That isn't what the 3 was supposed to be. That was not the end goal of Tesla and not what was pitched to the public. However, he has the luxury electric car market down. He could easily pivot and stick with the luxury brand and do partnerships with the majors to assist in them getting appealing electric vehicles to the mass market. It wouldn't impact his luxury niche, he'll make money off of selling licenses to his tech to the majors, and he'll still get to claim that he was the man who got America over the electric car hump.

Tesla's mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy. That is their statement off of their own website. That is to say, that is his own statement off of his own website. Toyota is a minority partner. Imagine if he came out and said "we are going to combine the 3 with the Corolla. We will make the critical parts and Toyota will manufacture." That would be within the mission statement of Tesla and be insanely profitable and efficient for Toyota and Tesla. He can then convert his automated line to make nothing but the S and the X, which would make the order to delivery time line practically instantaneous. Tesla still gets to make luxury cars, electric motors, and car interior tech, all while they utilize the infrastructure of the largest manufacturer of automotives in the entire world to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy. If Elon made that happen, he'd be one of the most important people in the last half of a century. And if they end up doing what I described, I'll take a board seat and 500k shares, please. But they won't, so I'll still be on Surly armchair CEOing with the rest of us.

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

57 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

He called one of the cave divers who was integral in the Thai rescue effort "pedo guy" on twitter this morning, so that's cool.

He is also promising to show how his sub could have made it. He is actually doubling and tripling down out of spite -- he refused to take down the pedo tweet and pretty much repeated it. 

Yeah, that's the way you want your CEO handling criticism. And I am no Bill Nye, but looking at the maps of that cave, there is no way in hell that inflexible sub is gonna make it very far in there. Bring it on, Elon. Show that video of your toy sub like you are threatening to. 

It's downright childish. 

And another thing -- he apparently has enough spare parts lying around Space-X to slap together rad little submarines, but good luck if somebody crashes into your Tesla or a part fails in the engine. 

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/replacement-parts-why-are-they-impossible-get

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/spare-parts-supply-chain-nightmare.109774/

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-x-spare-parts-availability-issues.114028/

 

[Deej 76964]

He called one of the cave divers who was integral in the Thai rescue effort "pedo guy" on twitter this morning, so that's cool.

Yeah, fucker needs to stay off Twitter.

[HouTex 1894]

Even if you charge an EV with coal produced electricity the amount of CO2 is less than if you use an ICE, but its pretty close.  If the electricity is from any other source the EV is way cleaner than the ICE.  Ignoring CO2 though, all the serious pollutants from car exhaust, NOx, ground level ozone, particulate, etc is overwhelming lower by using an EV.  Even the dirtiest power plants are exceedingly cleaner than an internal combustion engine on a per power output basis.  No one asserts "clean energy" is 100% clean and no impact whatsoever. 
He's annoying - he should stay off twitter.  He has ridiculous fan boys, they aren't too hard to ignore.   He sets absurd deadlines that he never hits.  Unless you are an investor I fail to see why this bothers anyone. 

Good post. Popular Mechanics had a good article several years ago about how clean EVs actually are. The conclusion was basically that if you are from a coal state there’s not a huge difference from gasoline cars. But in areas with a good mix of fuel sources it’s like driving a subcompact gasoline car.

[52-80 19271]

42 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/replacement-parts-why-are-they-impossible-get

 

Holy shit...

This is not a really elaborate and well-orchestrated parody site, is it?

[hayden_horn 11365]

This dude is doing drugs with Grimes. The twitter shit this morning is ridiculous. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by hayden_horn

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

NOTE: I AM NOT TRYING TO CR THIS THREAD, BUT THIS IS RELEVANT TO HIM BEING AN IDIOT, BUSINESS-WISE:

Quote

Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk was one of the top 50 donors last quarter to a PAC aimed at maintaining Republican control of the House, new federal filings show.

The Federal Election Commission filings released this week show that Musk donated a total of $38,900 to the PAC Protect The House.

Other high-profile donors who gave to the PAC include Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, who gave $100,000, and Houston Texans owner Bob McNair, who gave $371,500.

Quote

The billionaire has described himself as a “socialist,” but was widely mocked on social media after tweeting about it last month.

In another article, Sheldon Adelson was listed as one of the top donors. So here you have Musk giving 17 times as much money to a group trying to keep the House in GOP hands than he did to Hillary, thereby aligning himself with arch-conservatives Adelson and McNair. A month after he claimed he was a socialist.

Tesla is kinda in that niche with Ben & Jerry's -- a product rich liberals like to buy 'cause it gives 'em the feelz while being a status symbol. This revelation is not gonna help Tesla with that crowd. 

 

[Guest]

Lulz at the notion of Elon Musk’s future failure will make Enron look tame. OP fail. 

[babysdaddy 2728]

This is a troll thread, right?

[Rusty Shackelford 414]

NOTE: I AM NOT TRYING TO CR THIS THREAD, BUT THIS IS RELEVANT TO HIM BEING AN IDIOT, BUSINESS-WISE
 

So much bias and favoritism https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=Elon+musk&order=desc&page=1&sort=D

[Hook1997 5404]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

NOTE: I AM NOT TRYING TO CR THIS THREAD, BUT THIS IS RELEVANT TO HIM BEING AN IDIOT, BUSINESS-WISE:

In another article, Sheldon Adelson was listed as one of the top donors. So here you have Musk giving 17 times as much money to a group trying to keep the House in GOP hands than he did to Hillary, thereby aligning himself with arch-conservatives Adelson and McNair. A month after he claimed he was a socialist.

Tesla is kinda in that niche with Ben & Jerry's -- a product rich liberals like to buy 'cause it gives 'em the feelz while being a status symbol. This revelation is not gonna help Tesla with that crowd. 

 

The amount of hate you have for someone you don’t even know and who’s life doesn’t effect you is pretty impressive....   Must be a peach living in your household 

[maninblack 7974]

NOTE: I AM NOT TRYING TO CR THIS THREAD, BUT THIS IS RELEVANT TO HIM BEING AN IDIOT, BUSINESS-WISE:

Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk was one of the top 50 donors last quarter to a PAC aimed at maintaining Republican control of the House, new federal filings show.

The Federal Election Commission filings released this week show that Musk donated a total of $38,900 to the PAC Protect The House.

Other high-profile donors who gave to the PAC include Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, who gave $100,000, and Houston Texans owner Bob McNair, who gave $371,500.

The billionaire has described himself as a “socialist,” but was widely mocked on social media after tweeting about it last month.

In another article, Sheldon Adelson was listed as one of the top donors. So here you have Musk giving 17 times as much money to a group trying to keep the House in GOP hands than he did to Hillary, thereby aligning himself with arch-conservatives Adelson and McNair. A month after he claimed he was a socialist.
Tesla is kinda in that niche with Ben & Jerry's -- a product rich liberals like to buy 'cause it gives 'em the feelz while being a status symbol. This revelation is not gonna help Tesla with that crowd. 
 

It was transparent from the first post that this was politically motivated for you

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

17 minutes ago, maninblack said:

In another article, Sheldon Adelson was listed as one of the top donors. So here you have Musk giving 17 times as much money to a group trying to keep the House in GOP hands than he did to Hillary, thereby aligning himself with arch-conservatives Adelson and McNair. A month after he claimed he was a socialist.
Tesla is kinda in that niche with Ben & Jerry's -- a product rich liberals like to buy 'cause it gives 'em the feelz while being a status symbol. This revelation is not gonna help Tesla with that crowd. 
 

It was transparent from the first post that this was politically motivated for you

It really isn't. I despise sham and hokum, and Musk is full of both. I only found out about his politics today, but I've been wondering about all his bullshit companies for a couple of months now. And the fucking day after I question, this sober titan of industry calls a guy a pedo on Twitter, and you fanboys continue to defend him.

Dude should name his kids Peter Principle Musk and Dunning Kruger Musk. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

And for the record, it was the Obama Administration who enabled him. That's on him and his whizz-bang green energy initiatives and Jetsons shit. You get that -- this cat is Obama's monster, not Trump's.

[RPM 26363]

[Dahobbs 17701]

18 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

And for the record, it was the Obama Administration who enabled him. That's on him and his whizz-bang green energy initiatives and Jetsons shit. You get that -- this cat is Obama's monster, not Trump's.

You still cannot explain any of your bullshit about SpaceX. You do not have any understanding of things you are talking about. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You still cannot explain any of your bullshit about SpaceX. You do not have any understanding of things you are talking about. 

It's quite easy to understand that a CEO should not be baselessly calling people "pedo guy" for all the world to see. Under Thai law, that is not just a tort but potentially a criminal offense. (Look it up yourself -- keywords "Thai law defamation.") One of these days you might see your Boy Genius on Locked Up Abroad. 

 

And don't you just know the venture capitalist who've been funding him for all these years might be wondering if he might be becoming a bit of a liability at this point? 

[Fico 1791]

You still cannot explain any of your bullshit about SpaceX. You do not have any understanding of things you are talking about. 

Are you surprised? These are the people that elected Trump. Critical thinking isn’t exactly their M.O.

[DanRydell 799]

All I know about SpaceX is I was in Waco for work a few months ago when they had a successful landing and all the dudebro SpaceX employees were at George's celebrating by sexually harassing (and in two instances sexually assaulting) the waitresses.

[RDCanecutter 26476]

5 minutes ago, Fico said:

 

Are you surprised? These are the people that elected Trump. Critical thinking isn’t exactly their M.O.

 

Oh Law.

[swraith 347]

All I know about SpaceX is I was in Waco for work a few months ago when they had a successful landing and all the dudebro SpaceX employees were at George's celebrating by sexually harassing (and in two instances sexually assaulting) the waitresses.

So standard Waco resident behavior ?

[Doc Reeves 6434]

To answer the title:  both

 

 

what do I win?

[Anastasis 23491]

short short short. 

[52-80 19271]

I'm not into the politics game but isnt 40k just a drop in the bucket?  That's like a token donation.  Not sure whether to be surprised or not that that's how cheap it is to buy favors and influence.

[GRHorn 105]

He’s gonna end up being both.  Accomplished some amazing things with some unconventional thinking.  Also, more recently is going off the rails.  Started in earnest with the extremely shady acquisition of Solar City by Tesla.  I posted this report in the Tesla thread.  Has a good summary of their current position and this is before they built a massive tent for rushing production of Model 3s and more weird CEO behavior noted above.  I don’t see how Tesla ends well.  

https://1dl7f12uxv7z2jx3yl1larbs-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Tesla-A-Capital-Markets-Tale-The-Final-Chapter.pdf

26 minutes ago, Fico said:

 

Are you surprised? These are the people that elected Trump. Critical thinking isn’t exactly their M.O.

 

Elon has similarities to Trump.  He is extremely polarizing and his Twitter use is part of it.  

[Dahobbs 17701]

47 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

It's quite easy to understand that a CEO should not be baselessly calling people "pedo guy" for all the world to see. Under Thai law, that is not just a tort but potentially a criminal offense. (Look it up yourself -- keywords "Thai law defamation.") One of these days you might see your Boy Genius on Locked Up Abroad. 

 

And don't you just know the venture capitalist who've been funding him for all these years might be wondering if he might be becoming a bit of a liability at this point? 

Which has what to do with whether SpaceX has accomplished anything? I get disliking Musk for his personality. But under any objective measurement what he and SpaceX have accomplished is remarkable. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Which has what to do with whether SpaceX has accomplished anything? I get disliking Musk for his personality. But under any objective measurement what he and SpaceX have accomplished is remarkable. 

He is demonstrating that he is unable to lead that endeavor along with all his others, and keep his trap shut on Twitter. He ain't Trump. He has to answer to investors. He is only a billionaire on paper right now, and if he keeps this shit up, he won't be in charge for much longer. He is good at raising money and dreaming big. He did not build those rockets. He did not build those Teslas. He used other people's money to do both. He is expendable in the grand scheme of things. 

[Eastwood 4394]

Which has what to do with whether SpaceX has accomplished anything? I get disliking Musk for his personality. But under any objective measurement what he and SpaceX have accomplished is remarkable. 

I absolutely agree with this. Space X is his winner. I think he gets too hung up on proof of concept type ventures, but Space X is absolutely remarkable in what it has accomplished. If you don't think so, just ask yourself how many countries, much less corporations, can put actual working payloads into orbit.

[Dahobbs 17701]

1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

He is demonstrating that he is unable to lead that endeavor along with all his others, and keep his trap shut on Twitter. He ain't Trump. He has to answer to investors. He is only a billionaire on paper right now, and if he keeps this shit up, he won't be in charge for much longer. He is good at raising money and dreaming big. He did not build those rockets. He did not build those Teslas. He used other people's money to do both. He is expendable in the grand scheme of things. 

So he gets no credit at all for founding the companies and having the vision? You are bizarre.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

So he gets no credit at all for founding the companies and having the vision? You are bizarre.  

Lots of people have vision, but he fooled the olds into thinking he was a polymath supergenius just because he demonstrated he was "good with computers" because he fucking founded PayPal. 

It's the same logic that enabled AOL to take over Time Warner. Musk is another Steve Case. 

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

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