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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

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52-80

52-80 19152

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6 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

This isn't a "free speech" play, its a crypto/banking play. Elon's not dropping 10's of billions because he cares so much about free speech or Twitters alleged bias.

the debate about what is and isnt constitutionally-granted free speech was so oblique.

elon doesnt particularly give 1 fuck about the technical definition.  he simply (1) didnt like how twitter was run (2) wasnt playing to lose money.

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4819

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19 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't tweeter so I don't really care, but it'll be fun to see how his approach to moderation plays out. Every alternative that has tried to go full "free speech" has run into issues. If it becomes a 4chan type system where anything goes, well that'll be fun for him and his investment, lol.

Parler only ran into issues because douchebags cut off their web services because of pressure.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105123

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1 minute ago, Longhornlove said:

Parler only ran into issues because douchebags cut off their web services because of pressure.

There have been similar alternatives -- Gab, Gettr, Truth Social -- that haven't had web services cut off, yet remain utter duds.  Because despite what some folks seem to argue with no basis whatsoever, the vast majority of people don't want to engage in group conversations (and that's what social media is) with a crapload of nazis, assholes, shitheels, etc.

People are shitty, and will tolerate a surprising amount of shittiness, but in general, that tolerance has limits.  

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StruggleBus

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24 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't tweeter so I don't really care, but it'll be fun to see how his approach to moderation plays out. Every alternative that has tried to go full "free speech" has run into issues. If it becomes a 4chan type system where anything goes, well that'll be fun for him and his investment, lol.

It will never be that. They'll just stop banning people for stupid shit. 

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Cajun

Cajun 11705

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Threats of violence/terrorism and racism. It's actually really easy. 
 

Not really when you factor in what people will call “threats” these days.

I’ve got a “Come & take it” tshirt and on the campus of UTSA there are buttloads of pussies who’d call me a threat for wearing it.

Edited by Cajun
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52-80

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2 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Not really when you factor in what people will call “threats” these days.

I’ve got a “Come & take it” tshirt and on the campus of UTSA there are buttloads of pussies who’d call me a threat for wearing it.

your avatar is violence

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105123

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Threats of violence/terrorism and racism. It's actually really easy. 
 

Okay.  So a post that "women are the inferior sex, and should be subjugated by law, and any woman who disagrees is a total fucking cunt" is okay.  What about spamming someone's comments with scat pics (not that anyone would do that, ever)?  Maybe pornography featuring children?  And what's a threat of violence, exactly?  What if I just post "Everyone should note that StruggleBus, who lives at 123 peachtree lane, is a commie, and it would be awful if anything happened to him?"  And we could go on, and on, and on. 

There have been folks working at the content moderation game for a long-ass time.  Bright lines that accomplish a reasonable result are impossible.  It's human communication and behavior, by definition wildly imprecise.

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Okay.  So a post that "women are the inferior sex, and should be subjugated by law, and any woman who disagrees is a total fucking cunt" is okay.  What about spamming someone's comments with scat pics (not that anyone would do that, ever)?  Maybe pornography featuring children?  And what's a threat of violence, exactly?  What if I just post "Everyone should note that StruggleBus, who lives at 123 peachtree lane, is a commie, and it would be awful if anything happened to him?"  And we could go on, and on, and on. 

There have been folks working at the content moderation game for a long-ass time.  Bright lines that accomplish a reasonable result are impossible.  It's human communication and behavior, by definition wildly imprecise.

So it's not actually really easy?

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StruggleBus

StruggleBus 3922

Posted
Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:

Okay.  So a post that "women are the inferior sex, and should be subjugated by law, and any woman who disagrees is a total fucking cunt" is okay.  What about spamming someone's comments with scat pics (not that anyone would do that, ever)?  Maybe pornography featuring children?  And what's a threat of violence, exactly?  What if I just post "Everyone should note that StruggleBus, who lives at 123 peachtree lane, is a commie, and it would be awful if anything happened to him?"  And we could go on, and on, and on. 

There have been folks working at the content moderation game for a long-ass time.  Bright lines that accomplish a reasonable result are impossible.  It's human communication and behavior, by definition wildly imprecise.

Don't be pedantic. You know exactly why you are upset about this move, and it has nothing to do with content moderation. Go ahead, admit it here. 

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StruggleBus

StruggleBus 3922

Posted
Posted
Just now, StruggleBus said:

"women are the inferior sex, and should be subjugated by law, and any woman who disagrees is a total fucking cunt"

Poor opinion but not banworthy

 

1 minute ago, StruggleBus said:

Maybe pornography featuring children?

Ban

 

1 minute ago, StruggleBus said:

"Everyone should note that StruggleBus, who lives at 123 peachtree lane, is a commie, and it would be awful if anything happened to him?"

Poor taste but not banworthy

 

That was really hard. 

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Foosters

Foosters 17856

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, StruggleBus said:

Don't be pedantic. You know exactly why you are upset about this move, and it has nothing to do with content moderation. Go ahead, admit it here. 

Yeah, sorry Brisket. Even though we've been discussing content moderation for pages and pages, you are not allowed to discuss. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27661

Posted
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Parler only ran into issues because douchebags cut off their web services because of pressure.

This is factually incorrect. Parler was kicked off of AWS for repeated violations of their Acceptable Use Policy (AUP). From the AWS Abuse notification sent to Parler, they had notified Parler of 98 specific posts that incited and encouraged violence over the course of a month. Parler had a pattern of sometimes removing violent content, and other times completely ignoring it without acknowledgement. From the letter in the linked article:

Quote

Your CEO recently stated publicly that he doesn’t “feel responsible for any of this, and neither should the platform.” This morning, you shared that you have a plan to more proactively moderate violent content, but plan to do so manually with volunteers. It’s our view that this nascent plan to use volunteers to promptly identify and remove dangerous content will not work in light of the rapidly growing number of violent posts. This is further demonstrated by the fact that you still have not taken down much of the content that we’ve sent you. Given the unfortunate events that transpired this past week in Washington, D.C., there is serious risk that this type of content will further incite violence.

So respectfully, you should stop repeating that lie. Parler was kicked for failing to follow platform rules and ghosted the platform holder for more than a month after notification.

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Samson's Wig

Samson's Wig 3192

Posted
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There have been similar alternatives -- Gab, Gettr, Truth Social -- that haven't had web services cut off, yet remain utter duds.  Because despite what some folks seem to argue with no basis whatsoever, the vast majority of people don't want to engage in group conversations (and that's what social media is) with a crapload of nazis, assholes, shitheels, etc.

People are shitty, and will tolerate a surprising amount of shittiness, but in general, that tolerance has limits.  

To be fair, the vast majority of people don't want to engage in group conversations on social media no matter who is involved.  Twitter is only meaningful to those who have been hoodwinked into thinking it has any value.  The majority of folks carry on their lives quite well without ever looking at it.  And a lot of the butthurt over Elon buying Twitter is based solely on not wanting the circle jerk to come to an end.  The good news for these folks is, it likely won't. 

I find it funny the douchebag Republicans fought net neutrality and now are the ones screaming about "free and fair" Internet.  Personally, it seems evident on its face that the Internet is a public utility and sites such as Twitter should be regulated by the FCC or similar just as television and radio are regulated.

Although the whiney Trump bastards are obnoxious and only want to spew their idiocy, I fail to see how that's discernibly different from progressive idiots hoping they get to continue spewing their own brand of idiocy now that Twitter has been taken over.  I don't want to engage in conversations with nazis, commies, assholes, shitheels, etc. either, but those folks come from all walks of life and political belief.   You can't have a social platform without one variation or another of these folks.

Elon is ASD Level 1.  If you have raised a child or know someone with this condition then his behavior and choices don't seem so odd at all.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105123

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20 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Don't be pedantic. You know exactly why you are upset about this move, and it has nothing to do with content moderation. Go ahead, admit it here. 

Huh?  I genuinely have no idea what you're yammering on about.

The Elon-Twitter conversation started with the same BS about "freedom of speech" that we've been hearing for years.  The distinction was made, for the millionth time, between a privately owned platform and gov't regulation of speech.  And then, the point was made that having some moderation is actually a feature that makes such sites attractive to most users, and then the following point that moderation is hard.  If Elon takes a stab at something that has proven very difficult for any number of sites to get right, more power to him.  I have my doubts that he'll find the sweet spot much better than it's already been found, but I don't think that's exactly an "out there" take.  

So, I'm truly not sure what you're going on about.

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phdhorn

phdhorn 6224

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6 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

To be fair, the vast majority of people don't want to engage in group conversations on social media no matter who is involved.  Twitter is only meaningful to those who have been hoodwinked into thinking it has any value.  The majority of folks carry on their lives quite well without ever looking at it.  And a lot of the butthurt over Elon buying Twitter is based solely on not wanting the circle jerk to come to an end.  The good news for these folks is, it likely won't. 

I find it funny the douchebag Republicans fought net neutrality and now are the ones screaming about "free and fair" Internet.  Personally, it seems evident on its face that the Internet is a public utility and sites such as Twitter should be regulated by the FCC or similar just as television and radio are regulated.

Although the whiney Trump bastards are obnoxious and only want to spew their idiocy, I fail to see how that's discernibly different from progressive idiots hoping they get to continue spewing their own brand of idiocy now that Twitter has been taken over.  I don't want to engage in conversations with nazis, commies, assholes, shitheels, etc. either, but those folks come from all walks of life and political belief.   You can't have a social platform without one variation or another of these folks.

Elon is ASD Level 1.  If you have raised a child or no someone with this condition then his behavior and choices don't seem so odd at all.

Got damn, son.  There is a lot of wisdom in this.  Bravo!

The only thing(s) I would add are in ref. to your:

Paragraph 1:  the majority of folks on Twitter (up to 90% depending on how you interpret polls) post politics extremely rarely, or not at all.  The huge bulk of Twitter is pedantic shit from everyday schmucks.

Paragraph 3:  All more than true (and refreshing here), and I think that one place Musk is gonna take a buzz saw to is the "Community Standards" or some such bullshit "policy" section.  Those things are the great Fake Wall disguised as "fairness."  Granted, a private concern can do what it sees fit (within FCC regs) but "violating community standards" is often a cowardly, shit-brained cover for "I don't like you or your kind."  Gutless bullshit.

As I posted way back up there somewhere, my dice are rolling on the fact that content moderation is a concern of Musk's, but not his primary one, and that we'll be surprised at the lack of deep chiseling he does with Twitter.  He is more concerned with free flow of communication (get rid of the bots e.g.) and an arena - where any extremist side is vulnerable to axing.  And I think he'll axe both if need be.  Just not bury it under some unmitigated hog vomit of some ideologue's "community standards."  You know, HOA type shit.  Content moderation will always be needed - it's just that "moderation" is a term that's gone way the fuck off to La-La Land.  But time will tell.  And Musk must have some idea of how he wants Twitter to prosper; even if it fails, he wouldn't make this move without financials in mind, and certainly near or at the top.


Gonna be interesting to watch if nothing else.

 

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GreenspointTexas

GreenspointTexas 9600

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:
41 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:
Im going to create an exact copy of twitter, except require a “.edu” email address to register
 
 
who wants to make billions with me?

They already invented Facebook

Except facebook has sucked ever since they stopped requiring a “.edu” email address

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Ag with kids

Ag with kids 581

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 'stache said:

The question is where his line will be? Trump will certainly be back with his lies and manipulations which is really all this is about. What about actual threats? How will he interpret them? When the klan reforms and uses the platform is that "free speech" enough or will he find it dangerous like a rational person? I'm more interested in the train wreck potential at this point.

A good starting point would be to use the exceptions to free speech that have been established by SCOTUS with most everything else allowed.  This could basically restrict threats.

And if the speech from the klan wouldn't be considered out of bounds by the SCOTUS, well ok.  Let them spew their stupidity.  Allow users to curate what they want to view and they can block the klan tweets from showing up in their feed.

Sure, the klan speech sucks and is hateful...but tomorrow, who's to say that the powers that be don't find what YOU say to be sucky and hateful...

 

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4819

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

There have been similar alternatives -- Gab, Gettr, Truth Social -- that haven't had web services cut off, yet remain utter duds.  Because despite what some folks seem to argue with no basis whatsoever, the vast majority of people don't want to engage in group conversations (and that's what social media is) with a crapload of nazis, assholes, shitheels, etc.

People are shitty, and will tolerate a surprising amount of shittiness, but in general, that tolerance has limits.  

Except Parler was the #1 downloaded app at the time. Truth Social has bypassed the mainstream web services providers and has only been available for the masses for days, not even weeks or months. A little early to judge on that one. I know nothing of Gab or Gettr. Does look like a hit list for some though I'm sure. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29354

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Except Parler was the #1 downloaded app at the time. Truth Social has bypassed the mainstream web services providers and has only been available for the masses for days, not even weeks or months. A little early to judge on that one. I know nothing of Gab or Gettr. Does look like a hit list for some though I'm sure. 

Truth social was released in the Apple app store on February 21st.

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4819

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Okay.  So a post that "women are the inferior sex, and should be subjugated by law, and any woman who disagrees is a total fucking cunt" is okay.  What about spamming someone's comments with scat pics (not that anyone would do that, ever)?  Maybe pornography featuring children?  And what's a threat of violence, exactly?  What if I just post "Everyone should note that StruggleBus, who lives at 123 peachtree lane, is a commie, and it would be awful if anything happened to him?"  And we could go on, and on, and on. 

There have been folks working at the content moderation game for a long-ass time.  Bright lines that accomplish a reasonable result are impossible.  It's human communication and behavior, by definition wildly imprecise.

Funny story, some how a video popped up on my FB feed of what was obviously 2 minors having sex in public. I reported the post and got a reply that they saw nothing wrong with the post to censor it. Go figure.

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Captainant

Captainant 27661

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Except Parler was the #1 downloaded app at the time. Truth Social has bypassed the mainstream web services providers and has only been available for the masses for days, not even weeks or months. A little early to judge on that one. I know nothing of Gab or Gettr. Does look like a hit list for some though I'm sure. 

Did you even read what I posted? You're not accurately describing what happened. If you're renting someone else's servers you're bound by their policies. Parler made a point to ignore those policies and their CEO said they had no intent to comply moving forwards. 

3 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Similar to the ones during the "summer of love" on FB that never got censored. You know, the ones that burned down city blocks?

This is a weak #bothsides. Attacking both chambers of Congress to intentionally disrupt the execution of constitutionally mandated duties isn't in the same plane of existence as the police brutality riots.

You should actually read the reasoning and not just grievance post.

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4819

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Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

This is factually incorrect. Parler was kicked off of AWS for repeated violations of their Acceptable Use Policy (AUP). From the AWS Abuse notification sent to Parler, they had notified Parler of 98 specific posts that incited and encouraged violence over the course of a month. Parler had a pattern of sometimes removing violent content, and other times completely ignoring it without acknowledgement. From the letter in the linked article:

So respectfully, you should stop repeating that lie. Parler was kicked for failing to follow platform rules and ghosted the platform holder for more than a month after notification.

Deadpool 2 Yes GIF by 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment

So AWS is a content editor for social media platforms? That certainly has issues attached with it.

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sidis

sidis 9828

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Truth Social has bypassed the mainstream web services providers and has only been available for the masses for days, not even weeks or months. A little early to judge on that one.

i fear you may be getting your information a little...delayed.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105123

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Longhornlove said:

Funny story, some how a video popped up on my FB feed of what was obviously 2 minors having sex in public. I reported the post and got a reply that they saw nothing wrong with the post to censor it. Go figure.

So, as I noted, moderation is incredibly difficult to get exactly right when you're dealing with literally millions of posts a day and limited human beings to respond for requests.  If it is as you say, then FB got it wrong, because FB DOES have such a policy (in fact, its policy against such things often catches things that are obviously not pornographic, like a glimpse of a nipple while a woman is breastfeeding).  That didn't happen in the case you are suggesting because FB actually allows child pornography -- it happened because the moderation game is overwhelming and imperfect.  You're making my arguments for me.  We can all come up with plenty of examples -- and because this is the DT, stick with entirely apolitical examples -- where we think moderation was inconsistent, unduly harsh, or alternatively unduly lax, etc.  It happens all the time, every day.  Because FB, Twitter, etc., aren't going to hire 10,000 people (each of whom is human, and may make a different judgment call) to respond to all content complaints.

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Longhornlove

Longhornlove 4819

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Did you even read what I posted? You're not accurately describing what happened. If you're renting someone else's servers you're bound by their policies. Parler made a point to ignore those policies and their CEO said they had no intent to comply moving forwards. 

This is a weak #bothsides. Attacking both chambers of Congress to intentionally disrupt the execution of constitutionally mandated duties isn't in the same plane of existence as the police brutality riots.

You should actually read the reasoning and not just grievance post.

You remind me of all the guys on the football board that continue with the "but we lost to Kansas."

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