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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?


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Just now, Laxtonto said:

I bet there are many more that would be willing to pay for "free speech" than to move off of twitter to find an alternative.

Twitter has a niche that will be almost impossible to replicate. It is not incredibly technical, it can quickly push links, and it can provide rapid discourse. 

The beauty is that it doesn't have to be a subscription-only model. You just need to subscribe to be verified to be pushed by the algorithm or counted in the follower count of others for their influence metrics.

Musk's genius might be him selling something to the massive that in itself is already free.

So the town square has a cover charge? Pay here to access your free speech?  Seems legit.  

You're seriously underestimating how much people hate paying for media on the internet.  Real media companies have struggled with it for as long as the internet has been a thing, and there are no social media companies that do it, because people will just move to the free alternatives.   That's why they are all ad-based for revenue, and why they are loathe to take real action against the fringe shit on their networks/apps.  If you make it cheap enough for people to not sweat, it will be cheap enough for state actors to still flood with bots and manipulate.  The random social media star that buys 20k bots to boost his/her numbers isnt a problem anyone is worried about.  Its political/social manipulation, and thats being driven by state actors.  Russia/China wont blink at spending millions to keep sowing discord in the new subscription based free speech twitter.  

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44 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I don't know how parents of girls handle it. I've only heard how destructive it is to teen girls from stories my boys share. It's incredible the power it has over their happiness.

I'm fortunate  so far, my daughter is completely disinterested while all her "friends" can't get enough. I have to tell her to charge her phone and turn it on when she gets out of school. I'm sure that won't last forever though.

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On 4/25/2022 at 10:59 AM, wildcat09 said:

Twitter's moderation guidelines aren't really opaque or confusing, they just suck at enforcing them. Unless he wants to hire a lot more human moderators, I don't see a way to improve that.

Twitter's moderation is definitely whack. The other day I was going back and forth with a buddy and jokingly told him to "go jump in a lake." Twitter suspended me for 24 hours and made me delete the tweet. Meanwhile, in the same back and forth, my buddy told me to "die in a fire" and they didn't bother him. Silly stuff.

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2 minutes ago, jkates said:

Twitter's moderation is definitely whack. The other day I was going back and forth with a buddy and jokingly told him to "go jump in a lake." Twitter suspended me for 24 hours and made me delete the tweet. Meanwhile, in the same back and forth, my buddy told me to "die in a fire" and they didn't bother him. Silly stuff.

Weird, considering dying in a fire would produce carbon emissions.

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3 minutes ago, jkates said:

Twitter's moderation is definitely whack. The other day I was going back and forth with a buddy and jokingly told him to "go jump in a lake." Twitter suspended me for 24 hours and made me delete the tweet. Meanwhile, in the same back and forth, my buddy told me to "die in a fire" and they didn't bother him. Silly stuff.

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Twitter's value is in it's influence, not it's P&L.  It's use by the elite in govt., media, entertainment, news, etc. isn't going anywhere....who will themselves now be facing the age old trope of "just build something else" or "start your own site then".  

I think the value in Twitter is that for some strange reason when people post on Twitter it gets talked about.

Look at the graph above, very few people actually use it relative to other social media. But media reporting on tweets gets presidents elected, sells electric cars, sends stocks to the moon, etc. All for free for the tweeter.
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2 minutes ago, tbone_ said:


I think the value in Twitter is that for some strange reason when people post on Twitter it gets talked about.

Look at the graph above, very few people actually use it relative to other social media. But media reporting on tweets gets presidents elected, sells electric cars, sends stocks to the moon, etc. All for free for the tweeter.

Yep, hence the "elites use it" moniker.  It's value is not in the quantity of users, but who those users are.  

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2 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

I think the value in Twitter is that for some strange reason when people post on Twitter it gets talked about.

Media Circle Jerk.

  • Media creates a narrative and pushes it to twitter.
  • People react
  • Media prints/publishes a story about how "people are happy/disguised about" the narrative they've created.

This passes for news these days.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Media Circle Jerk.

  • Media creates a narrative and pushes it to twitter.
  • People react
  • Media prints/publishes a story about how "people are happy/disguised about" the narrative they've created.

This passes for news these days.

 

 

 

News is no longer about being accurate, it's about being first.

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News is no longer about being accurate, it's about being first.

Also truth, but it not even really about news. Just clicks.

I remember the first time I heard a news report about a tweet. I was like wtff? Who gives a fuck? Someone said something, so what.

It was also right then that I realized the genie was forever out of the bottle and that as a society we would corkscrew ourselves into an irreparable cluster fuck. When archeologists are digging us up in a thousand years and trying to figure out our downfall like we do the Greeks and Romans, they’re going to point to the fact that we willingly invented and promoted technology that gives every dipshit on the planet who can fog a mirror a fucking voice.

Dumbest thing ever in the history of humanity.
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51 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Killing bots will be a lot harder than Elon and the GP thinks.  

I don't think Elon thinks it will be easy, but if the guy can get a bunch of engineers to design a booster rocket than can land itself on a floating platform in the middle of the ocean, I think he might be able to leads some people into finding a better way to handle tweet bots. He'll likely have to fundamentally change how things currently work but I don't think anything is off the table.  Right now they have free run of everything, almost welcomed to do as they please.

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6 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I don't think Elon thinks it will be easy, but if the guy can get a bunch of engineers to design a booster rocket than can land itself on a floating platform in the middle of the ocean, I think he might be able to leads some people into finding a better way to handle tweet bots. He'll likely have to fundamentally change how things currently work but I don't think anything is off the table.  Right now they have free run of everything, almost welcomed to do as they please.

I would argue that landing a rocket on a floating platform is easier than the bot issue, because the rocket isn’t actively fighting against landing on that platform. Once you get your arms around enough variables landing that rocket is just a lot of math. Bot owners are going to actively fight against their extinction, and constantly change their behavior and capabilities to work around the filters. The other question is what is the tipping point for all of this money wise?  How much is he willing to sink to fix the issue? 

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10 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

I would argue that landing a rocket on a floating platform is easier than the bot issue, because the rocket isn’t actively fighting against landing on that platform. Once you get your arms around enough variables landing that rocket is just a lot of math. Bot owners are going to actively fight against their extinction, and constantly change their behavior and capabilities to work around the filters. The other question is what is the tipping point for all of this money wise?  How much is he willing to sink to fix the issue? 

That's as is logic. I'm guessing they'll find a way to make it work where there won't be getting around anything but rather a disincentive (cost) to do what they do now.

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42 minutes ago, tbone_ said:


Also truth, but it not even really about news. Just clicks.

I remember the first time I heard a news report about a tweet. I was like wtff? Who gives a fuck? Someone said something, so what.

It was also right then that I realized the genie was forever out of the bottle and that as a society we would corkscrew ourselves into an irreparable cluster fuck. When archeologists are digging us up in a thousand years and trying to figure out our downfall like we do the Greeks and Romans, they’re going to point to the fact that we willingly invented and promoted technology that gives every dipshit on the planet who can fog a mirror a fucking voice.

Dumbest thing ever in the history of humanity.

1st=More clicks-$$$$$

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1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

A subscription model will be the end of twitter.  People dont want to pay for shit on the internet.  

Ugh, this is true. I just realized I think Surly is the only internet thing I contribute money to. I stopped following 9.95 sites. 

If a newspaper ask me to subscribe to see an article. Hard pass. 

 

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1 hour ago, tbone_ said:


Also truth, but it not even really about news. Just clicks.

I remember the first time I heard a news report about a tweet. I was like wtff? Who gives a fuck? Someone said something, so what.

It was also right then that I realized the genie was forever out of the bottle and that as a society we would corkscrew ourselves into an irreparable cluster fuck. When archeologists are digging us up in a thousand years and trying to figure out our downfall like we do the Greeks and Romans, they’re going to point to the fact that we willingly invented and promoted technology that gives every dipshit on the planet who can fog a mirror a fucking voice.

Dumbest thing ever in the history of humanity.

It's not so much as giving them a voice, it's in giving a way for them (and for bad actors) to AMPLIFY that voice.

Every type of stupid shit you see on Twitter, like the wackadoo conspiracy theories, extreme political nuttery?  I've seen and heard it all before, in the days before the internet and social media.

Wackadoo shit like "JFK is still alive, and is directing a massive army of aliens underneath the City of Detroit to enslave humanity," or "the elites drink the blood of children which enables them to see into the future and control the markets?"  I saw all of that type of shit, printed on pamphlets being distributed by a guy in his van parked outside the SAXET Gun Show in 1988.  There were ALL KINDS of nutbar conspiracy newsletters and such to be found at such events.  They weren't everywhere, most folks there were normal, but we had plenty of conspiracy theory nutjobs.  It's just that they were restricted to whoever they could hand their pamphlets to when it came to dissemination of their nuttery.

Wackadoo shit like "the governing elites want to enslave us all, and make us work for their cronies till our arms fall off, and they are doing it by subliminal control of the airwaves?"  "Vaccines are actually poisonous mind control devices?"  There were nimrods who smelled of patchouli pushing that sort of crap from tables on the West Mall back in the day.  Again, they could only reach the people who chose to stop at their table and listen.  And I was too busy checking out the legs of the gal in front of me walking to our History class.

Dissemination and amplification are the game-changers, and those are fed both by the algorithms and manipulation of same by those who benefit from western society being an open melee shitshow.  Addressing THAT problem?  Good luck, Elon.  Seriously, I wish you good luck.  If he can crack that code, then hell, I might join the fanbois.

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58 minutes ago, Moby Ric said:

Sourced from twitter.  Must be fake news.

Twitter isn't a source.  

In the case of that tweet, the sources are an article and a court document.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/none-of-his-arguments-hold-water-elon-musk-loses-claim-that-his-consent-decree-with-the-sec-violates-his-first-amendment-rights/

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.501755/gov.uscourts.nysd.501755.81.0.pdf

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6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's not so much as giving them a voice, it's in giving a way for them (and for bad actors) to AMPLIFY that voice.

Every type of stupid shit you see on Twitter, like the wackadoo conspiracy theories, extreme political nuttery?  I've seen and heard it all before, in the days before the internet and social media.

Wackadoo shit like "JFK is still alive, and is directing a massive army of aliens underneath the City of Detroit to enslave humanity," or "the elites drink the blood of children which enables them to see into the future and control the markets?"  I saw all of that type of shit, printed on pamphlets being distributed by a guy in his van parked outside the SAXET Gun Show in 1988.  There were ALL KINDS of nutbar conspiracy newsletters and such to be found at such events.  They weren't everywhere, most folks there were normal, but we had plenty of conspiracy theory nutjobs.  It's just that they were restricted to whoever they could hand their pamphlets to when it came to dissemination of their nuttery.

Wackadoo shit like "the governing elites want to enslave us all, and make us work for their cronies till our arms fall off, and they are doing it by subliminal control of the airwaves?"  "Vaccines are actually poisonous mind control devices?"  There were nimrods who smelled of patchouli pushing that sort of crap from tables on the West Mall back in the day.  Again, they could only reach the people who chose to stop at their table and listen.  And I was too busy checking out the legs of the gal in front of me walking to our History class.

Dissemination and amplification are the game-changers, and those are fed both by the algorithms and manipulation of same by those who benefit from western society being an open melee shitshow.  Addressing THAT problem?  Good luck, Elon.  Seriously, I wish you good luck.  If he can crack that code, then hell, I might join the fanbois.

Yea, you think people are bitching about shadow banning now, let Elon kill the algorithm’s force feeding of fringe shit and followers. A lot of fragile egos are going to pop when they find out how many of their follows were either fake or manipulated via the algorithm to get there. 

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Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

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Actually, I cribbed that from one of the conspiracy theories I heard back in the day -- something like "The UN has a massive army of Russian troops in a secret base under Detroit, and when the UN gives the signal, they will come to the surface to conquer us."  Even at that time, I remember thinking "yes, of course, Detroit -- the key to the continent.  Control Detroit, control the world!  Dumbasses."

But maybe a few hundred people heard about that made up bullshit, because that's how many pamphlets Crazy McCrazyton printed up.

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8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"the elites drink the blood of children which enables them to see into the future and control the markets?"

It's children?!?  Shit, I been drinking the blood of the homeless, no wonder this shit ain't working.  

Need to call my soon to be fired assistant.

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1 minute ago, TXSG8R said:

Yea, you think people are bitching about shadow banning now, let Elon kill the algorithm’s force feeding of fringe shit and followers. A lot of fragile egos are going to pop when they find out how many of their follows were either fake or manipulated via the algorithm to get there. 

Oh, that's a bingo.  The perceived massive amounts of belief in position X is driven in large part by the algorithm.  Take that amplification out of the mix, and the extremists will largely fall back to their old way of screaming into the void and not getting any validation or amplification.

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1 minute ago, Moby Ric said:

It's children?!?  Shit, I been drinking the blood of the homeless, no wonder this shit ain't working.  

Need to call my soon to be fired assistant.

They may have to be jewish children.   Or the people drinking it have to be jewish. I can't remember.  Gotta dig up that old pamphlet.....

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Just now, Moby Ric said:

Shoot me a PM if you find it.

Sorry, I need your physical address so I can add you to my mailing list for my newsletter.  I'm going back to the old-school ways.

Seriously, think about what is now a meme-joke phrase -- "I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter."  That's literally how shit like the JFK and vaccine stuff used to get disseminated.  It's social penetration was miniscule.  Now, that same "newsletter" turns into a post that is shared 20 million times.

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6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, that's a bingo.  The perceived massive amounts of belief in position X is driven in large part by the algorithm.  Take that amplification out of the mix, and the extremists will largely fall back to their old way of screaming into the void and not getting any validation or amplification.

Subscribed.

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Sorry, I need your physical address so I can add you to my mailing list for my newsletter.  I'm going back to the old-school ways.

Seriously, think about what is now a meme-joke phrase -- "I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter."  That's literally how shit like the JFK and vaccine stuff used to get disseminated.  It's social penetration was miniscule.  Now, that same "newsletter" turns into a post that is shared 20 million times.

I am a nomadic social media influencer so I do not have or believe in a physical address or the mail.

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2 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

I also question why people believe Elon would have any real incentive to kill the bots and/or change how the AI works.  It will kill what little money Twitter makes.  Unless he really intends to throw 44 billion down the drain, his proposed cures will likely kill revenue.  Removing bots = removing a fuck ton of ad revenue.  Stopping the AI from pushing people into fringe shit = reduced traffic, which will lower ad revenue.  

We’re at the stage of the discussion where “letting legitimate but conservative accounts back on twitter will kill its business” and “removing fake bot accounts from twitter will kill its business”

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3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

We’re at the stage of the discussion where “letting legitimate but conservative accounts back on twitter will kill its business” and “removing fake bot accounts from twitter will kill its business”

Twitter is known for being full of people that know about everything. This also includes knowing how Twitter can and cannot be fixed. 

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6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

We’re at the stage of the discussion where “letting legitimate but conservative accounts back on twitter will kill its business” and “removing fake bot accounts from twitter will kill its business”

What is a conservative?

 

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1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

We’re at the stage of the discussion where “letting legitimate but conservative accounts back on twitter will kill its business” and “removing fake bot accounts from twitter will kill its business”

Removing bots won’t kill it, but it’s going to leave a hell of a dent. Elon will have to overcome that loss of revenue and that’s not remotely a hot take. As far as your first point, I’m 100% sure those accounts were removed for violating TOS, and not because they were “legitimate but conservative”, whatever the fuck that means. The bot problem is a both sides issue. The algorithm driving followers and content to the fringes is a both sides issue. If you want to bitch about the political sides of this take it to the CR where it belongs. 

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Funny, anytime something is political, they are told to take it to the CR. It isn't safe or wise for me to go there, my POV isn't wanted. It's actually worse than other social medias IMHO. If I say something that goes against the overwhelming narrative I am labeled not genuine or a troll. People are entirely too comfortable putting each other on blast sitting behind their monitor and keyboard. There is no civility. 

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6 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Removing bots won’t kill it, but it’s going to leave a hell of a dent. Elon will have to overcome that loss of revenue and that’s not remotely a hot take. As far as your first point, I’m 100% sure those accounts were removed for violating TOS, and not because they were “legitimate but conservative”, whatever the fuck that means. The bot problem is a both sides issue. The algorithm driving followers and content to the fringes is a both sides issue. If you want to bitch about the political sides of this take it to the CR where it belongs. 

Its funny that fringe accounts being banned is good for business but bots driving people to fringe content is also good for business. 

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2 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

Removing bots = removing a fuck ton of ad revenue.

Why?  Hypothetically, if he can demonstrate to ad-buyers that previously only 10% of the clicks they were buying came from actual people, shouldn't he be able to charge 10x per click after getting rid of the bots?

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