Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[bluto 4,997]

Just now, Homercles said:

…presents well reasoned thoughts with supporting timeline and giving credit where it’s due 

/responds with ‘lol u mad bro’ gif

New motto worthy but too long

[Js1 87,183]

9 hours ago, F250 said:

What is interesting is certain posters cannot help but drive this thread into CR territory.

If interest in Elon was only about Elon then StruggleBus and fatty wouldn't have the uncontrollable need to make CR related comments in the DT.

 

It's not that interesting.

It's highly predictable. 

[WBT 20,978]

4 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Nobody ever put this dude on a pedestal until AFTER he started with his "the left is too woke for me" act

lolwat

[Jkwellborn 7,036]

Even assuming that he and he alone is the architect of the climate benefits brought about by Tesla EVs….a person can do one thing that’s positive and another that’s negative. The negative might even outweigh the positive.
I’d love to have a finance guy who can get me a new mortgage at 1% below market….if he does that, he’s my hero. If he also fucks my wife and punches my kids, not so much. Doesn’t mean he still didn’t save me thousands; it just means that in total, he’s a dick.
I’m finding the right’s obsession with being a cult of personality twisted as shit. There’s only two ways for y’all to be: a man is either God or the devil, with nothing in between. It’s how you make gods of deeply flawed, sometimes genuinely awful, men. I don’t fucking get it. I don’t think any man is a pure savior to be worshipped.

What if your kids deserved to be punched?

[Brisketexan 106,899]

3 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

What if your kids deserved to be punched?

Well, they're kids, so......that's probably a given.

What, nothing about the wife needing a good bang?  Y'all are slipping.

[Nivek 17,415]

Even assuming that he and he alone is the architect of the climate benefits brought about by Tesla EVs….a person can do one thing that’s positive and another that’s negative. The negative might even outweigh the positive.
I’d love to have a finance guy who can get me a new mortgage at 1% below market….if he does that, he’s my hero. If he also fucks my wife and punches my kids, not so much. Doesn’t mean he still didn’t save me thousands; it just means that in total, he’s a dick.
I’m finding the right’s obsession with being a cult of personality twisted as shit. There’s only two ways for y’all to be: a man is either God or the devil, with nothing in between. It’s how you make gods of deeply flawed, sometimes genuinely awful, men. I don’t fucking get it. I don’t think any man is a pure savior to be worshipped.

Binary thinking has long been the domain of the simple. It is why they love their personality cults.

[52-80 19,377]

Maybe some of the slower kids in the room should stick to commenting on your favorite huffpo articles

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,999]

On 5/20/2022 at 2:07 PM, Blotto said:

https://electrek.co/2015/12/21/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-drops-prediction-full-autonomous-driving-from-3-years-to-2/

Thats one of Elon's greatest hits. Harder to get people to fork over the $10K if you tell them you have no idea when the product they are paying for will actually work. Musk does add the disclaimer that regulations allowing the use of autonomous driving may take longer, but to my knowledge Tesla still aint there

https://futurism.com/experts-alarmed-tesla-fsd

And then you have liability issue. If the auto manufacturer says that their car is Level 4 or Level 5 and then there is a fuckup and it plows into a schoolbus pushing it into a pack of nuns, who pays that bill? The insurance company or Tesla because the product was defective? I have no doubt at some point we will get there, but liability issues will be interesting. What Elon brags about and what Tesla lawyers will sign off on are two very different things. 

How many priests were on the bus?

[52-80 19,377]

“Tesla standardized adaptive cruise control”…a decades old feature, offered on the VW Golf before Tesla the company was even incorporared. 

Please, stop talking about cars also. 

[Guest]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:42 PM, F250 said:

You could just go to the beginning of the thread and test your theory. The few actual admitted Surly leftists were anti-Musk years ago. Fuck, MAC the OP has been on the Elon is a fraud train for years.

 

 

slight correction.  there's a significant portion of this board who claims to be centrists.  They ain't.

and I have no loyalties either way to Musk.  Not a fan of the cars.  Do find the battling ideologies interesting.

Edited May 25, 2022 by slorch

[F250 29,201]

7 minutes ago, slorch said:

slight correction.  there's a significant portion of this board who claims to be centrists.  They ain't.

Please explain and support your work with examples.

 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, F250 said:

Please explain and support your work with examples.

 

and these are just the folks willing to share their results...  this place is solidly left, and that's not a knock.  It's just what it is.  

 

[F250 29,201]

34 minutes ago, slorch said:

and these are just the folks willing to share their results...  this place is solidly left, and that's not a knock.  It's just what it is.  

 

Your citing a multi axis model to support a statement about a term that only makes sense on a left-right spectrum? Do you not see the issue?

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

Your citing a multi axis model to support a statement about a term that only makes sense on a left-right spectrum? Do you not see the issue?

 

Of course.  There are a shit ton of leftists in here who claim to be centrists.

If you want to ignore the differentiation from the vertical axis, which would be left or right; then that's your business. You go on and see what you want to see.

Edited May 25, 2022 by slorch

[F250 29,201]

11 minutes ago, slorch said:

Of course.  There are a shit ton of leftists in here who claim to be centrists.

If you want to ignore the differentiation from the vertical axis, which would be left or right; then that's your business. You go on and see what you want to see.

Things are nuanced and complicated. But simplicity has always been your thing.

Slorched!

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19,455]

4 hours ago, slorch said:

and these are just the folks willing to share their results...  this place is solidly left, and that's not a knock.  It's just what it is.  

 

Do those particular posters claim to be centrists?  Show your work.

[WBT 20,978]

Lulz

Quote

In a leaked email from Elon Musk sent on Tuesday entitled “Remote work is no longer acceptable”, the polarizing centibillionaire said only in extreme cases where this was deemed impossible would he personally decide whether to reconsider his decree.

“Anyone who wishes to do remote work must be in the office for a minimum (and I mean *minimum*) of 40 hours per week or depart Tesla,” he wrote in an email shared by Tesla shareholder Sam Nissim.

Many proponents of working from home (WFH) argue it can improve quality of life. Yet there are also those that believe it can foster social inequality, warning it creates a two-class workforce where yuppies enjoy all the advantages flexibility has to offer while blue collar employees have none.

...

Asked whether the leaked email was in fact authentic, Musk confirmed its veracity and made it crystal clear he had zero tolerance for those demanding the right to retain privileges long viewed as a necessity during the pandemic.

“They should pretend to work somewhere else,” he replied dismissively.

https://fortune.com/2022/06/01/tesla-elon-musk-work-from-home-remote-office-hybrid/

Edited June 1, 2022 by WBT

[Js1 87,183]

What an asshole 

[Jkwellborn 7,036]

Lulz

In a leaked email from Elon Musk sent on Tuesday entitled “Remote work is no longer acceptable”, the polarizing centibillionaire said only in extreme cases where this was deemed impossible would he personally decide whether to reconsider his decree.

“Anyone who wishes to do remote work must be in the office for a minimum (and I mean *minimum*) of 40 hours per week or depart Tesla,” he wrote in an email shared by Tesla shareholder Sam Nissim.

Many proponents of working from home (WFH) argue it can improve quality of life. Yet there are also those that believe it can foster social inequality, warning it creates a two-class workforce where yuppies enjoy all the advantages flexibility has to offer while blue collar employees have none.

...

Asked whether the leaked email was in fact authentic, Musk confirmed its veracity and made it crystal clear he had zero tolerance for those demanding the right to retain privileges long viewed as a necessity during the pandemic.

“They should pretend to work somewhere else,” he replied dismissively.

https://fortune.com/2022/06/01/tesla-elon-musk-work-from-home-remote-office-hybrid/

So work a full week in the office and then work from home? Fuck that.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

On 5/22/2022 at 11:10 PM, fattyflattie said:

I give 0 fucks about his politics.  Or him really.  Entertaining though.

you're a fucking liar. you've become an incredibly shitty poster.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

as for musk, i've never really had much of an opinion about him but he seems to be off the rails these days. i wouldn't be surprised if he ended up snapping and taking an extended leave of absence to focus on his mental well-being.

[wildcat09 29,579]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:18 AM, slorch said:

and these are just the folks willing to share their results...  this place is solidly left, and that's not a knock.  It's just what it is.  

 

This might be your funniest post ever.

[52-80 19,377]

god forbid an employment agreement requires you to be at the place of employment.

maybe those who dont like it can seek employment at apple

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/07/19/apple-employees-fighting-return-to-work/

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/22556615/apple-response-hybrid-work-model-employee-letter-remote

especially if they hate their jobs so much

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

god forbid an employment agreement requires you to be at the place of employment.

maybe those who dont like it can seek employment at apple

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/07/19/apple-employees-fighting-return-to-work/

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/22556615/apple-response-hybrid-work-model-employee-letter-remote

especially if they hate their jobs so much

He has every right to demand they be in the office. I think he's about to see a talent exodus as a result, though.

What's interesting is his comment about pretend to work. Does he really think he has executives that don't work? That would be...strange.

[WBT 20,978]

No shit.  Elon thinks I can't pretend to work at the office?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This might be your funniest post ever.

Facts is funny, indeed.  If you don't like them just change em...

[Fudge Nuggets 19,455]

30 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

as for musk, i've never really had much of an opinion about him but he seems to be off the rails these days. i wouldn't be surprised if he ended up snapping and taking an extended leave of absence to focus on his mental well-being.

Only if he puts in 40 full hours of office time though.

[wildcat09 29,579]

Oh my god you’re serious.

[Hefeweizen 5,444]

I’m laughing at this because literally every company is trying to offer remote to its employees to keep talent and this dickweed thinks he is going to reverse that  tide?   
 

He is going to see a lot of talent depart.  It won’t matter to him but it will definitely hurt the company’s retention and acquisition of talent.

[Snake Diggity 4,714]

On 5/22/2022 at 11:10 PM, fattyflattie said:

I give 0 fucks about his politics.  Or him really.  Entertaining though.

There should be a rule where if a poster comments more than 3 times in a thread they can never claim to “give 0 fucks about” the topic of that thread.

[52-80 19,377]

11 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

He has every right to demand they be in the office. I think he's about to see a talent exodus as a result, though.

Engineering churn in Norcal is almost de rigueur.  But if you are on the vehicles team you are departing for... Lucid?  Who else is considered part of the secret sauce that is at risk of leaving - administration?  finance?  operations?

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,803]

3 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

I’m laughing at this because literally every company is trying to offer remote to its employees to keep talent and this dickweed thinks he is going to reverse that  tide?   
 

He is going to see a lot of talent depart.  It won’t matter to him but it will definitely hurt the company’s retention and acquisition of talent.

Agree to disagree on this one. The type of talent he is looking for will be the ones wanting to come to the office everyday, wanting to be around people like themselves. Is he going to "miss" on some talent, certainly but I think he's got this one right. He see some older talent depart, but it will be replaced quickly.

[Blotto 24,021]

1 minute ago, Hefeweizen said:

I’m laughing at this because literally every company is trying to offer remote to its employees to keep talent and this dickweed thinks he is going to reverse that  tide?   
 

He is going to see a lot of talent depart.  It won’t matter to him but it will definitely hurt the company’s retention and acquisition of talent.

 

15 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Agree to disagree on this one. The type of talent he is looking for will be the ones wanting to come to the office everyday, wanting to be around people like themselves. Is he going to "miss" on some talent, certainly but I think he's got this one right. He see some older talent depart, but it will be replaced quickly.

The bigger headwind he will face with employee retention might be stock price/stock options. It will much be harder to maintain a market cap greater than the next 9 auto manufacturers combined once Tesla is no longer the only company selling EVs. You have to put up with a fair amount of bullshit working at Tesla, but people are far more likely to do that if they are given a few thousand shares which turns into a few million dollars.

The loss of that income will do more to drive churn, imo. There will always be startups offering the reward of working on the next big technology with options as an incentive. Those are the opportunities that the young engineers in the bay area will gravitate towards. Its not clear to me that TSLA offers the same risk reward benefit it did 5 or 10 years ago. 

[Storm the Field 5,366]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

What an asshole 

This is the same guy that recently threatened to fire a group of SpaceEx interns because he saw them waiting in line to get coffee one morning. Had security cameras installed and said if he ever saw it happen again they'd all be gone.

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

27 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Engineering churn in Norcal is almost de rigueur.  But if you are on the vehicles team you are departing for... Lucid?  Who else is considered part of the secret sauce that is at risk of leaving - administration?  finance?  operations?

Virtually every auto maker has an electric division at this point. What are you suggesting? That talented people don't have other employment options? Or that talented people leaving Tesla wouldn't be a problem for Tesla?

[gsoda3 3,362]

34 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

I’m laughing at this because literally every company is trying to offer remote to its employees to keep talent and this dickweed thinks he is going to reverse that  tide?  

that's very quietly started to change the past month with layoffs, hiring freezes, and big tech companies telling their employees how it's going to be.  we're heading into a really bad time for job seekers. 

[crash_davis 23,470]

Per the Googles

Tesla employs 99K people worldwide and average salary is $99K/year. He's going to lose people. It's one thing to make people go to the office, it's another to make them go to main offices where the departments are located. He's going to lose engineers, operations, and back office. Manufacturing already has to be at the plant so doubtful they would leave. Churn is going fuck up productivity.

From afar, it's like watching a man lose his mind in real time. He's pissing off his customer base. He's pissing off his employees. When his wealth starts to take a hit, he's going to double down on woke culture, people don't want to work, and whatever else comes across his mind.

[Hefeweizen 5,444]

6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

that's very quietly started to change the past month with layoffs, hiring freezes, and big tech companies telling their employees how it's going to be.  we're heading into a really bad time for job seekers. 

Not seeing it in our  industry, and maybe tech is different than law, backing, and other white collar, but almost all my professional friends are seeing about half their workforce headed remote permanently.  I know there is a big philosophical divide on this that will last for a while but I don’t think the genie is going back in the bottle.

 

I am biased as I’m going full time remote next week but I gave my employer the choice of me retiring or going remote and they jumped at remote.

[52-80 19,377]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Virtually every auto maker has an electric division at this point. What are you suggesting? That talented people don't have other employment options? Or that talented people leaving Tesla wouldn't be a problem for Tesla?

Because Tesla is at-risk of people are stepping over oneanother to work at Honda in Torrance and General Motors in Detroit

 

each survey with 5 digit+ sample size

[Blotto 24,021]

26 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Because Tesla is at-risk of people are stepping over oneanother to work at Honda in Torrance and General Motors in Detroit

 

each survey with 5 digit+ sample size

Why post the results of a survey of university students and their opinions of potential employers when the conversation was about current employee churn? 

Quote

Universum Global, has just released its 13th annual World’s Most Attractive Employers report. This year Universum surveyed over 221,000 business, engineering and IT students in the world’s 10 largest economies (Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Italy, Russia, the UK and the US). We asked this group of future talent to provide insights on the company characteristics they find most attractive in a potential employer, as well as who they perceive to be their ideal employer. 

 

[kevwun 16,438]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

as for musk, i've never really had much of an opinion about him but he seems to be off the rails these days. i wouldn't be surprised if he ended up snapping and taking an extended leave of absence to focus on his mental well-being.

Rich people are never crazy, they are eccentric.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

43 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Because Tesla is at-risk of people are stepping over oneanother to work at Honda in Torrance and General Motors in Detroit

what an odd take. cool cool.

[52-80 19,377]

15 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Why post the results of a survey of university students and their opinions of potential employers when the conversation was about current employee churn? 

 

1. specific screenshots were already filtered to US population.  (for obv reasons global responders would kill to work at any large corporation, like accenture, ibm, ge, siemens)

2. the student opinion roughly reflect industry opinion as well.  unless otherwise you think the remaining top 5 of goog/appl/msft/amzn are not actually attractive in tech?

 

[Foosters 18,280]

Can we get an automod to respond to every 52-80 post with that Simpsons-Musk meme?

[LCHorn 2,751]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

that's very quietly started to change the past month with layoffs, hiring freezes, and big tech companies telling their employees how it's going to be.  we're heading into a really bad time for job seekers. 

I only know about Google in Austin but they aren’t slowing their hiring in the slightest.  

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,803]

1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

Not seeing it in our  industry, and maybe tech is different than law, backing, and other white collar, but almost all my professional friends are seeing about half their workforce headed remote permanently.  I know there is a big philosophical divide on this that will last for a while but I don’t think the genie is going back in the bottle.

 

I am biased as I’m going full time remote next week but I gave my employer the choice of me retiring or going remote and they jumped at remote.

It will go back in the bottle when workers keep getting passed over for promotions for younger people who work in the office even if WFH employee is more productive. Younger people want to be in the office, they are much cheaper. They will be perceived as more committed to the company just from their face time and relationships they build. Top companies won't see it as "losing" people but as "replacing" people.

[fattyflattie 4,640]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

you're a fucking liar. you've become an incredibly shitty poster.

How’s that? He’s an “interesting” guy that’s pretty much a walking train wreck .  I couldn’t give any less of a fuck about his politics.  I don’t believe what he’s saying about his politics, anyhow. He’s the biggest troll in the damn world. EVs going mainstream hurts my income, and he’s a huge reason they are. He’s been on my fuck this guy list for a long time, but still think he’s somewhat entertaining.  Doesn’t mean I gaf about his thoughts on anything political.  I did think it was funny when he’d troll Warren. 

[fattyflattie 4,640]

2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

There should be a rule where if a poster comments more than 3 times in a thread they can never claim to “give 0 fucks about” the topic of that thread.

This thread isn’t about his politics, which I could care less about.  Great point though!!1!

[Brisketexan 106,899]

It will go back in the bottle when workers keep getting passed over for promotions for younger people who work in the office even if WFH employee is more productive. Younger people want to be in the office, they are much cheaper. They will be perceived as more committed to the company just from their face time and relationships they build. Top companies won't see it as "losing" people but as "replacing" people.

I think this is a long-game that some young employees who love the idea of remote work haven’t figured out yet.
The lack of relationship-building, in-person mentoring, etc. is a long-term loss that they just don’t see yet (because most people aren’t good at such long-term strategic thinking). And we’re not yet seeing much of that fallout, because we’re only a couple of years into this, and really, only a year or so into WFH being optional.
While I think Musk is being clumsy on this topic, and perhaps more draconian than necessary, I don’t disagree with his overall thinking on the issue.

[chainsaw 10,292]

The man is having a bona fide mental breakdown just because people stopped believing he's literally Tony Stark like they did in 2015 when people didn't know the real Elon.

 

1 hour ago, Storm the Field said:

This is the same guy that recently threatened to fire a group of SpaceEx interns because he saw them waiting in line to get coffee one morning. Had security cameras installed and said if he ever saw it happen again they'd all be gone.

 

 

Wow....never would have expected this from a guy whose family cracked whips for blood emeralds.