Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[wildcat09 29,349]

 

 

[Blotto 23,497]

32 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

2. the student opinion roughly reflect industry opinion as well.  unless otherwise you think the remaining top 5 of goog/appl/msft/amzn are not actually attractive in tech?

I don't really think that student opinion matters at all, when the topic was Tesla opting to force existing employees to work at the office and the impact it might have on employee churn. Especially if goog, msft, appl, and other bay area tech heavyweights have different philosophies about WFH. Its been awhile since I lived in the Bay Area, but the daily commute was a f'n bitch for me, and I was in sales and could break up my day accordingly. Its one thing if you live 10 minutes from the plant/office, its quite another if you live 1 hour+ in rush hour commute. 

That's not to say that Tesla doesn't have cool technology or interesting problems to work on. I just don't think college students have the same perspective when evaluating prospective employers that existing employees do. While I doubt many bay area tesla employees would move to Dearborn MI to work for Ford, that's not really the decision we are evaluating here. There are plenty of attractive tech companies in the Bay Area (in EV and other areas like robotics etc...) that are as appealing financially while allowing WFH or a hybrid 2/3 day schedule. 

Again, all of this is secondary imo to the bigger challenge of pay/risk/reward. Tesla has a reputation for grueling hours and hard work, but as long as your stock options make you a millionaire, many are willing to grind it out. IF the stock comes back to the pack with regards to market cap, that will have a dramatic effect on employee compensation and will hurt retention more than WFH. Tesla has benefitted immensely from the market's irrational valuation of their stock price. There's not a lot they can do if the market decides that there really isnt a compelling reason for the stock to be valued 15X times more than Ford, when Ford made $18 billion in profit last year and Tesla made $5.6 billion (of which $1.8 billion was ZEV credits which will eventually go away). But then again, the markets can remain irrational for a long time, so we will see. 

[wildcat09 29,349]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I think this is a long-game that some young employees who love the idea of remote work haven’t figured out yet.
The lack of relationship-building, in-person mentoring, etc. is a long-term loss that they just don’t see yet (because most people aren’t good at such long-term strategic thinking). And we’re not yet seeing much of that fallout, because we’re only a couple of years into this, and really, only a year or so into WFH being optional.
While I think Musk is being clumsy on this topic, and perhaps more draconian than necessary, I don’t disagree with his overall thinking on the issue.

I don't think it's just that younger people aren't doing great long-term thinking.  They've grown up online. To them, remote communication is just a normal part of life. To their bosses it never will be normal, even though they've all been picking it up to the extent necessary for decades now. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

[Js1 85,310]

26 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It will go back in the bottle when workers keep getting passed over for promotions for younger people who work in the office even if WFH employee is more productive. Younger people want to be in the office, they are much cheaper. They will be perceived as more committed to the company just from their face time and relationships they build. Top companies won't see it as "losing" people but as "replacing" people.

[UDontKnow 10,444]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I think this is a long-game that some young employees who love the idea of remote work haven’t figured out yet.
The lack of relationship-building, in-person mentoring, etc. is a long-term loss that they just don’t see yet (because most people aren’t good at such long-term strategic thinking). And we’re not yet seeing much of that fallout, because we’re only a couple of years into this, and really, only a year or so into WFH being optional.
While I think Musk is being clumsy on this topic, and perhaps more draconian than necessary, I don’t disagree with his overall thinking on the issue.

This is not as common as it should be. Companies stopped valuing their employees a long ass time ago - maybe it started during the Nixon era when HMOs began their rise. 

Within the last year, Musk has shown his true colors. He's no different than any rich despot. And if he fires his employees, they'll just go and find a better work situation. Work from home isn't new (so many IT operations have been WFH over a decade), it just became more accepted during the pandemic. And if the current trend continues, it will become the new normal for certain industries.

[chainsaw 9,865]

Any word if Elon has completed hiring on his Deadly Viper Assassination Squad of lawyers?

[crash_davis 23,107]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I think this is a long-game that some young employees who love the idea of remote work haven’t figured out yet.
The lack of relationship-building, in-person mentoring, etc. is a long-term loss that they just don’t see yet (because most people aren’t good at such long-term strategic thinking). And we’re not yet seeing much of that fallout, because we’re only a couple of years into this, and really, only a year or so into WFH being optional.
While I think Musk is being clumsy on this topic, and perhaps more draconian than necessary, I don’t disagree with his overall thinking on the issue.

some functions benefit from the collaboration of being co-located. other functions don't fucking matter. with how global companies are now, the benefit of the first is dwindling.

if you are a design team, it makes sense to have your team collab. manufacturing is a no brainer, you must be at the plant to produce. if you are accounting, supply chain, project management, HR, etc, your management, peers, and internal customers are spread all throughout the US and globe. there's not a got damned reason to be permanently co-located and be at the office 8-5, 5 days a week. that the leadership in a company can't distinguish between the two is lazy at best, and just being an asshole as worst.

but it's his company, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. employees also have a choice to stay or leave. it's win/win for everyone.

[Blotto 23,497]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

but it's his company, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. employees also have a choice to stay or leave. it's win/win for everyone.

True dat. I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over the well-being of Elon, Tesla, or his any of his employees that have more options than say, a coal miner in WV. 

[crash_davis 23,107]

i'm still amazed at normal people blindly defending billionaires being assholes to protect their wealth. elon, amazon asshole, and other billionaires do not give a fuck about their employees. the employees are nothing but a necessary cost so that they can sell shit at a certain margin to maintain and accumulate their wealth. the billionaires do not blink an eye at cutting those employees/costs if their margin/wealth is in jeopardy. 

there's no loyalty from them. why do normal peons feel the need to hold these assholes on a pedestal?

[tbone_ 14,115]

i'm still amazed at normal people blindly defending billionaires being assholes to protect their wealth. elon, amazon asshole, and other billionaires do not give a fuck about their employees. the employees are nothing but a necessary cost so that they can sell shit at a certain margin to maintain and accumulate their wealth. the billionaires do not blink an eye at cutting those employees/costs if their margin/wealth is in jeopardy. 
there's no loyalty from them. why do normal peons feel the need to hold these assholes on a pedestal?

This.

Based on my personal experience being around and working with a few folks who have approached this territory, I realized a while back I’m not anywhere near greedy enough for that world. That’s fine with me honestly.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

44 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

some functions benefit from the collaboration of being co-located. other functions don't fucking matter. with how global companies are now, the benefit of the first is dwindling.

if you are a design team, it makes sense to have your team collab. manufacturing is a no brainer, you must be at the plant to produce. if you are accounting, supply chain, project management, HR, etc, your management, peers, and internal customers are spread all throughout the US and globe. there's not a got damned reason to be permanently co-located and be at the office 8-5, 5 days a week. that the leadership in a company can't distinguish between the two is lazy at best, and just being an asshole as worst.

Agree with you on this point.  Depends on the profession/tasks we're talking about.  For something more physically hands-on (manufacturing) or heavily intertwined with "the human element" (my world, the practice of trial law), collaboration and in-person examples and mentoring matter.  Yes, some/much of the job can be done remotely, but it's no substitute for the in-person functions when you can have them.

33 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

i'm still amazed at normal people blindly defending billionaires being assholes to protect their wealth. elon, amazon asshole, and other billionaires do not give a fuck about their employees. the employees are nothing but a necessary cost so that they can sell shit at a certain margin to maintain and accumulate their wealth. the billionaires do not blink an eye at cutting those employees/costs if their margin/wealth is in jeopardy. 

there's no loyalty from them. why do normal peons feel the need to hold these assholes on a pedestal?

And this fact -- one I don't disagree with -- is making it harder for ANYONE to hire and manage people.  We're getting large-scale displays of employers treating employees like meat sacks to be bled dry and then discarded, so the rising employee class understandably has zero loyalty in mind when they take a job.  It makes an approach of actually investing in growing people a challenge, because they don't believe that's what you're doing.

The utter broad-based collapse of treating people like actual human beings -- socially, as an employer, politically, all of it -- is killing us.  We are a zero-empathy society, and we're reaping what we sow.  And man.....does Elon love to sow.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

Tesla is going to make Enron seem like embezzling at the local at the local farm credit union before this all unravels. Maybe he will become the first interplanetary fugitive.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

5 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Tesla is going to make Enron seem like embezzling at the local at the local farm credit union before this all unravels. Maybe he will become the first interplanetary fugitive.

I mean....I wouldn't bet against that outcome.  Narcissists tend to run a lot of the same plays.  It's not a guarantee, but it's far from off the table.

[52-80 19,150]

48 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I don't really think that student opinion matters at all, when the topic was Tesla opting to force existing employees to work at the office and the impact it might have on employee churn. Especially if goog, msft, appl, and other bay area tech heavyweights have different philosophies about WFH. Its been awhile since I lived in the Bay Area, but the daily commute was a f'n bitch for me, and I was in sales and could break up my day accordingly. Its one thing if you live 10 minutes from the plant/office, its quite another if you live 1 hour+ in rush hour commute. 

That's not to say that Tesla doesn't have cool technology or interesting problems to work on. I just don't think college students have the same perspective when evaluating prospective employers that existing employees do. While I doubt many bay area tesla employees would move to Dearborn MI to work for Ford, that's not really the decision we are evaluating here. There are plenty of attractive tech companies in the Bay Area (in EV and other areas like robotics etc...) that are as appealing financially while allowing WFH or a hybrid 2/3 day schedule. 

Again, all of this is secondary imo to the bigger challenge of pay/risk/reward. Tesla has a reputation for grueling hours and hard work, but as long as your stock options make you a millionaire, many are willing to grind it out. IF the stock comes back to the pack with regards to market cap, that will have a dramatic effect on employee compensation and will hurt retention more than WFH. Tesla has benefitted immensely from the market's irrational valuation of their stock price. There's not a lot they can do if the market decides that there really isnt a compelling reason for the stock to be valued 15X times more than Ford, when Ford made $18 billion in profit last year and Tesla made $5.6 billion (of which $1.8 billion was ZEV credits which will eventually go away). But then again, the markets can remain irrational for a long time, so we will see. 

 

-Tesla has already had that reputation, before WFH.  So if you already signed on and have been with Tesla, WFH policy is not what's taking you away.

-The 'other companies' compensation are actually more equity-heavy than Tesla, AND, their stock are all beta with eachother -- their 1YR performance all track nasdaq

-Apple, e.g., is already WFH unfriendly.  Are they at risk of a mass exodus?  No?  Then that risk is likely already baked into the WFH decision.

-ZEV as a profit driver is a busted old story.  One of these line below is profit ZEV, and another is total gross profit.  This goes back 4 years.  Valid criticism still?

 

 

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

Can we get an automod to respond to every 52-80 post with that Simpsons-Musk meme?

You can choose to act like Blotto and talk about the topic of the thread with some substance. Or you act like a school girl and talk about me instead. 

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19,190]

3 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

we're heading into a really bad time for job seekers. 

So same as the last 20 years minus a year here or there?

[Blotto 23,497]

5 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

 

-Tesla has already had that reputation, before WFH.  So if you already signed on and have been with Tesla, WFH policy is not what's taking you away.

-The 'other companies' compensation are actually more equity-heavy than Tesla, AND, their stock are all beta with eachother -- their 1YR performance all track nasdaq

-Apple, e.g., is already WFH unfriendly.  Are they at risk of a mass exodus?  No?  Then that risk is likely already baked into the WFH decision.

-ZEV as a profit driver is a busted old story.  One of these line below is profit ZEV, and another is total gross profit.  This goes back 4 years.  Valid criticism still?

ZEV basically drops to the bottom line as pure profit after whatever paperwork administration is accounted for. I have a hard time saying that $1.8 billion dollars or approximately 1/3 of their net profit in 2021 is immaterial. But we are drifting far from the intent of this thread which is to expound on what a douche Elon is. 

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19,190]

How long until this fuccboi holes up in his mansion with the drapes closed and grows out his toenails?

[Hefeweizen 5,311]

2 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It will go back in the bottle when workers keep getting passed over for promotions for younger people who work in the office even if WFH employee is more productive. Younger people want to be in the office, they are much cheaper. They will be perceived as more committed to the company just from their face time and relationships they build. Top companies won't see it as "losing" people but as "replacing" people.

We’ll see who is right.  The pandemic shone a light on what is necessary and beneficial and while full time remote may be a step too far for some, for others it’s going to be fine.  
 

For a long time I scoffed at employees who wanted any remote work.  I just am able to see that the best ones were perfectly capable of remote work using teams and other collaborative software.

 

 The biggest losers of this remote work are managers who glommed in to their groups work and acted like they could produce.  Those people are fucked.

[Foosters 17,850]

28 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

You can choose to act like Blotto and talk about the topic of the thread with some substance. Or you act like a school girl and talk about me instead. 

Hey man, I don't want to talk about your shitty takes. That's why I suggested an auto-mod to deal with them.

[52-80 19,150]

34 minutes ago, Blotto said:

ZEV basically drops to the bottom line as pure profit after whatever paperwork administration is accounted for. I have a hard time saying that $1.8 billion dollars or approximately 1/3 of their net profit in 2021 is immaterial. But we are drifting far from the intent of this thread which is to expound on what a douche Elon is. 

 

This thread has been the de facto Tesla thread, so it's quite germane.  Especially since all the recent talks of his solvency (and the motivation of his workforce), where the bulk of his wealth rests on Tesla, where everyone equates Tesla with Elon and Elon with Tesla.

As investment decisions are made in anticipation of future profits, people aren't trading Tesla for entitlement to 2021 earnings.  Based on that trend, or any other projections of sales and margins, where is ZEV gonna be in relation to 2022 net profit?  We can all guess this one, right?

 

[crash_davis 23,107]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

This thread has been the de facto Tesla thread, so it's quite germane.  Especially since all the recent talks of his solvency (and the motivation of his workforce), where the bulk of his wealth rests on Tesla, where everyone equates Tesla with Elon and Elon with Tesla.

As investment decisions are made in anticipation of future profits, people aren't trading Tesla for entitlement to 2021 earnings.  Based on that trend, or any other projections of sales and margins, where is ZEV gonna be in relation to 2022 net profit?  We can all guess this one, right?

 

so tesla is going to have 15X the the profits of ford? that's what people are expecting? fucking lulz. that's assuming that the national power grid will be able to handle the full conversion from combustible to electric cars.

and who's going buy all those fucking teslas? conversatives who today drive brodozers? liberals who he's pissing off?

stocks and the stock market haven't been tied to reality for a long time. tesla is a poster boy example of that.

[chainsaw 9,865]

51 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

We’ll see who is right.  The pandemic shone a light on what is necessary and beneficial and while full time remote may be a step too far for some, for others it’s going to be fine.  
 

For a long time I scoffed at employees who wanted any remote work.  I just am able to see that the best ones were perfectly capable of remote work using teams and other collaborative software.

 

 The biggest losers of this remote work are managers who glommed in to their groups work and acted like they could produce.  Those people are fucked.

[Biff Tannen 45,673]

3 hours ago, kevwun said:

Rich people are never crazy, they are eccentric.

paraphrased from Dennis Hopper in Speed

[NoName 16,351]

5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Engineering churn in Norcal is almost de rigueur.  But if you are on the vehicles team you are departing for... Lucid?  Who else is considered part of the secret sauce that is at risk of leaving - administration?  finance?  operations?

not in that industry but in mine the WFH side of things is slowly creeping into non traditional areas like HR and finance. if your team is global why can't your back of the house stuff be global? or at least offer a sweetener of working remotely part time.

[NoName 16,351]

4 hours ago, crash_davis said:

From afar, it's like watching a man lose his mind in real time. He's pissing off his customer base. He's pissing off his employees. When his wealth starts to take a hit, he's going to double down on woke culture, people don't want to work, and whatever else comes across his mind.

absolutely. picking THIS hill to die on (and he is clearly fighting tooth and nail on this front) is super strange considering TSLA is going into facing extreme competition over the next 24? 36? months.

[Homercles 10,205]

Regarding Tesla, my take is the insane popularity of the F150 Lightning seems (to me, at least) that there’s a huge appetite for traditional electric cars/trucks to be tapped by conventional automakers.  I’m one of them.  
 

I bought a 2018 Genesis G80 Sport with the expectation it’ll be my last gas car, not because I couldn’t get a Tesla near that price point but because I want a conventional electric luxury car and not a rolling Windows ME machine that may have shoddy build quality, software gremlins, hit/miss support and unmet promises.  The Mach E and similar cars are too new to be affordable at the moment.  Unless there’s a seismic shift in FSD, Tesla will eventually come back to earth. 

[52-80 19,150]

34 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

1. so tesla is going to have 15X the the profits of ford? that's what people are expecting? fucking lulz.

2. that's assuming that the national power grid will be able to handle the full conversion from combustible to electric cars.

3. and who's going buy all those fucking teslas? conversatives who today drive brodozers? liberals who he's pissing off?

stocks and the stock market haven't been tied to reality for a long time. tesla is a poster boy example of that.

1. people are picking one to trend like the top, and another to trend like the bottom.  you are free to pick your fighter.

2. why would you assume the full conversion to electric car happens tomorrow? was a lack of gas station on every corner a problem for motor vehicles when ford made the model A?

3. you're welcomed to decompose which fraction of these are conservatives and which are liberals.

and the lookahead by all manufacturers, and the trend of policies from lawmakers, do you think they care about that?

[crash_davis 23,107]

no one is arguing the move to electric. however, it will take longer than people think because it will take a long ass time to build the supporting infrastructure. regardless, tesla's novelty will continue to wear off as EVs become the predominant car offering by every manufacturer. at that point, tesla is going to compete against like brands, mercedes, porsche, bmw, lexus, and other luxury EVs. they will be just another car manufacturer and will have the same P/E as all the rest, if they are lucky. their 15x valuation today is massively inflated and will not hold.

Edited June 1, 2022 by crash_davis

[Bateshorn 9,927]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

no one is arguing the move to electric. however, it will take longer than people think because it will take a long ass time to build the supporting infrastructure. regardless, tesla's novelty will continue to wear off as EVs become the predominant car offering by every manufacturer. at that point, tesla is going to compete against like brands, mercedes, porsche, bmw, lexus, and other luxury EVs. they will be just another car manufacturer and will have the same P/E as all the rest, if they are lucky. their 15x valuation today is massively inflated and will not hold.

This.  The trouble for Tesla is not the Taycan.  It's a banal e-jetta that costs 25K less.  It's the same thing that fucked GM in the 70s: lack of quality control and cheap ass alternatives.

[sidis 9,825]

total sidenote to this idiotic discussion by people predicting the future of auto commerce and elon musk deciding he'd rather chase meme thrills than continue to help out with the evolution of the species...

has anyone else noticed that tesla drivers are becoming the new 3 series twats that drive like complete and utter pricks?  i am subbing in my anecdotal observations over the last year instead of a rigorous, comprehensive and scientific study on this so i am right.  wtf is going on with all these clowns?  and it sure seems like 80% of them are douchey enough to have vanity plates.

Edited June 1, 2022 by sidis

[Bateshorn 9,927]

2 minutes ago, sidis said:

total sidenote to this idiotic discussion by people predicting the future of auto commerce and elon musk deciding he'd rather chase meme thrills than continue to help out with the evolution of the species...

has anyone else noticed that tesla drivers are becoming the new 3 series twats that drive like complete and utter pricks?  i am subbing in my anecdotal observations over the last year instead of a rigorous, comprehensive and scientific study on this so i am right.  wtf is going on with all these clowns?  and it sure seems like 80% of them are douchey enough to have vanity plates.

Yes. Definitely.  And I live in the center of the douchebag driver universe.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Bateshorn

[crash_davis 23,107]

1 minute ago, sidis said:

total sidenote to this idiotic discussion by people predicting the future of auto commerce and elon musk deciding he'd rather chase meme thrills than continue to help out with the evolution of the species...

has anyone else noticed that tesla drivers are becoming the new 3 series twats that drive like complete and utter pricks?  i am subbing in my anecdotal observations over the last year instead of a rigorous, comprehensive and scientific study on this so i am right.  wtf is going on with all these clowns?  and it sure seems like 80% of them are douchey enough to have vanity plates.

tesla drivers and brodozer drivers are two sides of the same shitty fucking coin. they are both self important assholes.

[gsoda3 3,254]

5 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

Not seeing it in our  industry, and maybe tech is different than law, backing, and other white collar, but almost all my professional friends are seeing about half their workforce headed remote permanently.  I know there is a big philosophical divide on this that will last for a while but I don’t think the genie is going back in the bottle.

 

I am biased as I’m going full time remote next week but I gave my employer the choice of me retiring or going remote and they jumped at remote.

employer leverage is going to increase.  from this earning period alone facebook, microsoft, and coinbase have all announced hiring freezes or slowdowns.  netflix announced layoffs, carvana had a disastrous quarter and said they'd lay off something like 10% of their workforce.  it's not a given what happens in tech will spillover to other industries, but it's hard to figure it won't-  once that displaced tech talent (in all of their roles:  legal, HR, finance, etc) hits the marketplace we're going to see a shift in labor dynamics.  ]

 

if you're interested here's a website that tracks (voluntary) displacement numbers.  it's a good way to see the breadth of the action. 

 

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,232]

7 minutes ago, sidis said:

total sidenote to this idiotic discussion by people predicting the future of auto commerce and elon musk deciding he'd rather chase meme thrills than continue to help out with the evolution of the species...

has anyone else noticed that tesla drivers are becoming the new 3 series twats that drive like complete and utter pricks?  i am subbing in my anecdotal observations over the last year instead of a rigorous, comprehensive and scientific study on this so i am right.  wtf is going on with all these clowns?  and it sure seems like 80% of them are douchey enough to have vanity plates.

It is nice though when you need to get over as all you have to do is find a Tesla and edge towards their car and it will automatically brake and let you in... 

[52-80 19,150]

14 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

no one is arguing the move to electric.

1. however, it will take longer than people think because it will take a long ass time to build the supporting infrastructure.

2. regardless, tesla's novelty will continue to wear off as EVs become the predominant car offering by every manufacturer.

3. at that point, tesla is going to compete against like brands, mercedes, porsche, bmw, lexus, and other luxury EVs. they will be just another car manufacturer and will have the same P/E as all the rest, if they are lucky.

1. where is the threshold that the marginal add from cars is unsustainable?  the worlds grids have never been able to cope with growing demand for electricity right?

2. that story's been told for literally 10 years since the company was formed.  "free beer... tomorrow".

3. what happens to those other companies earnings, when 95%+ of today's earnings base comes from a car that is no longer sold tomorrow? 

[Macklemore 2,876]

7 hours ago, Js1 said:

What an asshole 

Thank you Elon. Hopefully this will be the kickstart and cover needed to get our fucking worthless HR and others to end WFH and get worthless junior personnel back in the office. Party’s over.

[52-80 19,150]

26 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

employer leverage is going to increase.  from this earning period alone facebook, microsoft, and coinbase have all announced hiring freezes or slowdowns. 

not to mention the reduced or possibly even underwater equity holdings of employees in faangman... yeah they might be hanging onto their existing employment just a bit tighter now

[crash_davis 23,107]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

1. where is the threshold that the marginal add from cars is unsustainable?  the worlds grids have never been able to cope with growing demand for electricity right?

2. that story's been told for literally 10 years since the company was formed.  "free beer... tomorrow".

3. what happens to those other companies earnings, when 95%+ of today's earnings base comes from a car that is no longer sold tomorrow? 

you must work for tesla.

infrastructure goes beyond the grid, which today we are barely able to sustain existing demand. infrastructure also means charging stations at every exit like today with gas stations. infrastructure also means not taking 30 mins to charge a fucking vehicle. no one is going to wait in line for 2 hours only to take another 30 mins to charge the vehicles on road trips. fuck that.

and you act like the other car manufacturers are going to disappear overnight because everyone is going to buy a tesla because they are the only EV manufacturer. GM, Ford, all car manufacturers are going to sell the same number of cars, just EV instead of combustion. tesla is not going to automatically get 95% of all car sales. i have no fucking desire to buy a telsa. their quality is shit. plus the ceo is a self indulgent asshole. fuck him.

[Hefeweizen 5,311]

16 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Thank you Elon. Hopefully this will be the kickstart and cover needed to get our fucking worthless HR and others to end WFH and get worthless junior personnel back in the office. Party’s over.

Lol, peon.  You can slave in the office while I sit on my deck and work.  Sorry your skill set doesn’t allow you to get out of the office.

[crash_davis 23,107]

2 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Lol, peon.  You can slave in the office while I sit on my deck and work.  Sorry your skill set doesn’t allow you to get out of the office.

On my death bed when hopefully I'm remembering a life well lived, I can promise that I will never regret that I didn't work more from the office.

[Hefeweizen 5,311]

Just now, crash_davis said:

On my death bed when hopefully I'm remembering a life well lived, I can promise that I will never regret that I didn't work more from the office.

I regret nothing.  Except not banging more sluts in college.

[crash_davis 23,107]

Just now, Hefeweizen said:

I regret nothing.  Except not banging more sluts in college...

at the office.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,232]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

absolutely. picking THIS hill to die on (and he is clearly fighting tooth and nail on this front) is super strange considering TSLA is going into facing extreme competition over the next 24? 36? months.

Elon asking his employees, who work for a company that makes "cars", to use a car each day doesn't seem like that big of a hill to me.

[Hefeweizen 5,311]

Just now, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Elon asking his employees, who work for a company that makes "cars", to use a car each day doesn't seem like that big of a hill to me.

I just hope he makes every mother fucker in his Austin operation sit in that traffic out to his factory.  I’m chuckling thinking about it.   Maybe he can bore them a tunnel in his spare time with his stupid ass boring machine.

[Leeroy Jenkins 2,402]

4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

 

 

This is exactly what I was thinking.  This is laying the ground work for a force reduction.  

[crash_davis 23,107]

1 minute ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

This is exactly what I was thinking.  This is laying the ground work for a force reduction.  

a lot cheaper than paying for severance packages.

[52-80 19,150]

8 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

1. you must work for tesla.

2. infrastructure goes beyond the grid, which today we are barely able to sustain existing demand. infrastructure also means charging stations at every exit like today with gas stations. infrastructure also means not taking 30 mins to charge a fucking vehicle. no one is going to wait in line for 2 hours only to take another 30 mins to charge the vehicles on road trips. fuck that.

3. and you act like the other car manufacturers are going to disappear overnight because everyone is going to buy a tesla because they are the only EV manufacturer. GM, Ford, all car manufacturers are going to sell the same number of cars, just EV instead of combustion. tesla is not going to automatically get 95% of all car sales.

4. i have no fucking desire to buy a telsa. their quality is shit.

5.  plus the ceo is a self indulgent asshole. fuck him.

1. do you?  is that a condition for talking about it objectively using public information?

2. which grid cannot sustain demand - the annual freakout localized to texas?  plugging the car into a domestic home charger (120v/16a) is the equivalent of an electric tea kettle (2000w).  is there widespread panic of everyone in the neighborhood running their tea kettles and hairdryers simultaneously?  by the way, if you do that, you are pretty much never reliant on a charging station on the road. 

3. nobody assumes Tesla getting 95% of all cars sales, or even 95% of electric car sales, or even 50% of electric car sales, or other manufacturers disappearing overnight, or anything else on an overnight basis actually.  simple fact that tesla's growing sales is pulling its earnings up a wall, thats before even considering its continuously improving margin %.  meanwhile, every bmw 330e or i4 is replacing a sale that would have otherwise gone to a 330i.  they're at best replacing their sales 1:1.  and the total sales of vw, bmw, merc, have already been reflecting this.

4. thats your choice and your opinion

5. i agree, but that assessment doesnt change anything about the business

 

 

[crash_davis 23,107]

5 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

1. do you?  is that a condition for talking about it objectively using public information?

2. which grid cannot sustain demand - the annual freakout localized to texas?  plugging the car into a domestic home charger (120v/16a) is the equivalent of an electric tea kettle (2000w).  is there widespread panic of everyone in the neighborhood running their tea kettles and hairdryers simultaneously?  by the way, if you do that, you are pretty much never reliant on a charging station on the road. 

3. nobody assumes Tesla getting 95% of all cars sales, or even 95% of electric car sales, or even 50% of electric car sales, or other manufacturers disappearing overnight, or anything else on an overnight basis actually.  simple fact that tesla's growing sales is pulling its earnings up a wall, thats before even considering its continuously improving margin %.  meanwhile, every bmw 330e or i4 is replacing a sale that would have otherwise gone to a 330i.  they're at best replacing their sales 1:1.  and the total sales of vw, bmw, merc, have already been reflecting this.

4. thats your choice and your opinion

5. i agree, but that assessment doesnt change anything about the business

 

 

at this point i have no fucking idea what we are arguing about. maybe....you seem to think that tesla is worth their valuation. i think they are so overvalued its beyond funny, but there are many stocks like them. you think that they are going to be some huge player in the future, i think their stock will come down to earth (they only own 3% of US auto market share now) once all manufacturers move all the fleets to EV. you aint convincing me of anything, i aint convincing you of anything. 

glad we at least agree elon is a fuckstick. 

[BurdineBandit 815]

6 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

 

glad we at least agree elon is a fuckstick. 

Can we agree on a better name? That man doesn't fuck shit with this stick. 

[tbone_ 14,115]

Can we agree on a better name? That man doesn't fuck shit with this stick. 

Dilhole?