Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[52-80 19,257]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

at this point i have no fucking idea what we are arguing about. maybe....you seem to think that tesla is worth their valuation. i think they are so overvalued its beyond funny, but there are many stocks like them. you think that they are going to be some huge player in the future, i think their stock will come down to earth (they only own 3% of US auto market share now) once all manufacturers move all the fleets to EV. you aint convincing me of anything, i aint convincing you of anything. 

glad we at least agree elon is a fuckstick. 

i used to be skeptical of their cars.  now i think they are very good.  (their ridiculous Net Promoter Score, and owner satisfaction surveys attest to that).

i used to be dismissive of their business.  a deeper digging convinced me they have a much brighter future than other vehicle manufacturers, proven by the previous quarters of operations and execution.

i have always maintained elon was simultaneously an asshole, a provocateur, but also a shrewd businessman.  the only thing new there is finding that combination entertaining from a public-spectacle point of view.

its just regrettable that some of the fly-by-commenters can't harbor any opinion marginally more complex than a knee-jerk, binary prejudice.   hurrr durr rocket man bad.

[Homercles 10,206]

I am more productive at home, except for occasional stints into the office for day-long strategy sessions where we need a room full of whiteboards.  
 

I can setup a meeting based on availability with no fighting for conference rooms, the bathroom is 15 steps away, I start working the moment my family leaves the house and not after a 30m commute, I eat faster for lunch, can have MST3k episodes blaring while working on a deck, and am always checking email/Teams on my phone after hours because I’m not so burnt out after 8 hours in a soul-less glorified parking garage under fluorescent lighting listening to Cindy yell into her headset all day on finance calls (Fuck you Cindy W).

Dont get the hate for WFH   It’s almost like you’ve been indoctrinated into assuming it means lazy.  I get more done personally and professionally at a lower stress level.

 

[Js1 85,583]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

Thank you Elon. Hopefully this will be the kickstart and cover needed to get our fucking worthless HR and others to end WFH and get worthless junior personnel back in the office. Party’s over.

What an asshole. Found the middle management Karen. Explains a lot! 

[crash_davis 23,115]

5 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

i used to be skeptical of their cars.  now i think they are very good.  (their ridiculous Net Promoter Score, and owner satisfaction surveys attest to that).

i used to be dismissive of their business.  a deeper digging convinced me they have a much brighter future than other vehicle manufacturers, proven by the previous quarters of operations and execution.

i have always maintained elon was simultaneously an asshole, a provocateur, but also a shrewd businessman.  the only thing new there is finding that combination entertaining from a public-spectacle point of view.

its just regrettable that some of the fly-by-commenters can't harbor any opinion marginally more complex than a knee-jerk, binary prejudice.   hurrr durr rocket man bad.

3% market share is one person's knee jerk binary prejudice. to another person, it's a wet dream. 

[52-80 19,257]

2 minutes ago, Homercles said:

I am more productive at home, except for occasional stints into the office for day-long strategy sessions where we need a room full of whiteboards.  
 

I can setup a meeting based on availability with no fighting for conference rooms, the bathroom is 15 steps away, I start working the moment my family leaves the house and not after a 30m commute, I eat faster for lunch, can have MST3k episodes blaring while working on a deck, and am always checking email/Teams on my phone after hours because I’m not so burnt out after 8 hours in a soul-less glorified parking garage under fluorescent lighting listening to Cindy yell into her headset all day on finance calls (Fuck you Cindy W).

Dont get the hate for WFH   It’s almost like you’ve been indoctrinated into assuming it means lazy.  I get more done personally and professionally at a lower stress level.

 

has there been an opinion condemning WFH as lazy, or less productive?

i've pretty much WFH going on a decade now.  how effectively it is depends on the job, team, project, and all the 100s of other personal circumstances; not everyone commutes the same distance.  im way more distracted now at home with a doggy, baby, and wife trying to juggle them both. 

im neither gonna admit to it nor volunteer to go back to the office!  but if the employer demands it, its their prerogative.  my prerogative is to seek out another situation where the new net benefits exceeds what it is now.

[Captainant 27,790]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

has there been an opinion condemning WFH as lazy, or less productive?

Elon, the subject of this thread, has said as much. It's sort of what started the whole WFH discussion in this thread lol

[wildcat09 29,408]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

Thank you Elon. Hopefully this will be the kickstart and cover needed to get our fucking worthless HR and others to end WFH and get worthless junior personnel back in the office. Party’s over.

Incredible bootlicker energy. 

[Macklemore 2,876]

1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

Lol, peon.  You can slave in the office while I sit on my deck and work.  Sorry your skill set doesn’t allow you to get out of the office.

LOL what I do fits the textbook definition of someone in the “laptop class”. The junior personnel that don’t come in are self-segregating themselves into the also-ran category when it comes to advancement. Believe me, that will be plain and self-evident to them from everyone I talk to during reviews next March.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Macklemore

[StruggleBus 3,922]

Tesla is a manufacturing company. Fuck the clowns crying for remote work. Go work at Facebook.

 

 

[52-80 19,257]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

3% market share is one person's knee jerk binary prejudice. to another person, it's a wet dream. 

if static market share was a direct proxy to profitability Apple would be dead and Creative labs would still be a thing and you'd have been an investment billionaire. 

are you?

[Biff Tannen 45,742]

1 hour ago, Homercles said:

I am more productive at home, except for occasional stints into the office for day-long strategy sessions where we need a room full of whiteboards.  
 

I can setup a meeting based on availability with no fighting for conference rooms, the bathroom is 15 steps away, I start working the moment my family leaves the house and not after a 30m commute, I eat faster for lunch, can have MST3k episodes blaring while working on a deck, and am always checking email/Teams on my phone after hours because I’m not so burnt out after 8 hours in a soul-less glorified parking garage under fluorescent lighting listening to Cindy yell into her headset all day on finance calls (Fuck you Cindy W).

Dont get the hate for WFH   It’s almost like you’ve been indoctrinated into assuming it means lazy.  I get more done personally and professionally at a lower stress level.

 

All of this.  One day a week at the office I can see being useful, but for actual work work?  Home is FAR superior.

[Homercles 10,206]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

has there been an opinion condemning WFH as lazy, or less productive?

i've pretty much WFH going on a decade now.  how effectively it is depends on the job, team, project, and all the 100s of other personal circumstances; not everyone commutes the same distance.  im way more distracted now at home with a doggy, baby, and wife trying to juggle them both. 

im neither gonna admit to it nor volunteer to go back to the office!  but if the employer demands it, its their prerogative.  my prerogative is to seek out another situation where the new net benefits exceeds what it is now.

Was responding to genius Mackelmore, not a broader discussion with Elon.  It’s his company, he can do what he wants

[chainsaw 9,873]

Maybe I'm old-fashioned but to me it's the principle of the thing. If your boss doesn't respect you enough to trust that you'll get your job done from home, no amount of money or benefits is going to change the fact that someone upon whom you depend thinks of you as nothing more than a child in need of direct supervision. Fuck that shit.

[Macklemore 2,876]

Elon is a trendsetter like him or not and for the typical spineless C-suite/HR hack making decisions regarding WFH, he and Tesla will be one big data point against what has been a seemingly unstoppable WFH tide. It will give others backbone to buck the trend because he has been the pied piper of leading the revolution of clean, zero emission transport single-handedly. He has street cred with all the bullshit corporate America is trying to feed us.  

[Homercles 10,206]

1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

Elon is a trendsetter like him or not and for the typical spineless C-suite/HR hack making decisions regarding WFH, he and Tesla will be one big data point against what has been a seemingly unstoppable WFH tide. It will give others backbone to buck the trend because he has been the pied piper of leading the revolution of clean, zero emission transport single-handedly. He has street cred with all the bullshit corporate America is trying to feed us.  

You’re adorable 

[Macklemore 2,876]

5 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Maybe I'm old-fashioned but to me it's the principle of the thing. If your boss doesn't respect you enough to trust that you'll get your job done from home, no amount of money or benefits is going to change the fact that someone upon whom you depend thinks of you as nothing more than a child in need of direct supervision. Fuck that shit.

The juniors are missing out from the mentorship and personal relationships being made. This board is mostly made up of guys in their 40s and 50s. Our situation is different. I have an open door - a junior can pop in my office and ask me a question or talk strategy or shoot the shit. You think they’re going to call me and do the same. No. 

[tbone_ 14,166]

The juniors are missing out from the mentorship and personal relationships being made. This board is mostly made up of guys in their 40s and 50s. Our situation is different. I have an open door - a junior can pop in my office and ask me a question or talk strategy or shoot the shit. You think they’re going to call me and do the same. No. 

Counterpoint: I just had a junior text me this morning and ask if we could do a monthly coffee to talk deal strategy. Said he just wants to listen and learn.

[Captainant 27,790]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

All of this.  One day a week at the office I can see being useful, but for actual work work?  Home is FAR superior.

This is what my team at work does: one day a week in the office, normally Monday, with the whole team in to get the water-cooler and lunch talk and face to face collaboration. Rest of the week is whatever works best for you. Some folks go in to the office, some work from home, some go to customer sites. 

For me, over the two years of WFH during COVID I earned a promotion, grew my customers 2.5X, and actually ramped UP my rate of customer engagements since I didn't have to program in 30-40 minutes of drive time between sites and finding the meeting room etc. It changed nothing about how I do my job except I could wear basketball shorts all day and take my dogs on walks whenever I wanted. Hell, I've mentored and ramped up several new hires fully remotely and they've been just as productive (per our measured and quantative metrics and goals) as before when we were 100% in office. 

It doesn't make sense for every job, but it should absolutely be a question each manager is asking about each role under them

[crash_davis 23,115]

8 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

if static market share was a direct proxy to profitability Apple would be dead and Creative labs would still be a thing and you'd have been an investment billionaire. 

are you?

to your apple, i raise you netflix. we can do this all day.

[Macklemore 2,876]

1 minute ago, tbone_ said:

Counterpoint: I just had a junior text me this morning and ask if we could do a monthly coffee to talk deal strategy. Said he just wants to listen and learn.

A go-getter with upper management potential. The juniors who exhibit those qualities where I work come to the office.

[crash_davis 23,115]

17 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

if static market share was a direct proxy to profitability Apple would be dead and Creative labs would still be a thing and you'd have been an investment billionaire. 

are you?

btw, hot tip. crytocurrency. it's right up your alley.

[52-80 19,257]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

btw, hot tip. crytocurrency. it's right up your alley.

feel free to send over a financial model supporting your thesis.

and atleast is the crypto ceo affable?

[texasdago 7,580]

9 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

btw, hot tip. crytocurrency. it's right up your alley.

Are you EvilMopac?

 

[Covri 6,253]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

The juniors are missing out from the mentorship and personal relationships being made. This board is mostly made up of guys in their 40s and 50s. Our situation is different. I have an open door - a junior can pop in my office and ask me a question or talk strategy or shoot the shit. You think they’re going to call me and do the same. No. 

What do you do and what do the juniors do?

[chainsaw 9,873]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

The juniors are missing out from the mentorship and personal relationships being made. This board is mostly made up of guys in their 40s and 50s. Our situation is different. I have an open door - a junior can pop in my office and ask me a question or talk strategy or shoot the shit. You think they’re going to call me and do the same. No. 

Sounds like those juniors are maxxing out their pieces of flair, that doesn't mean the work from homes aren't doing their jobs.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,252]

2 hours ago, Macklemore said:

LOL what I do fits the textbook definition of someone in the “laptop class”. The junior personnel that don’t come in are self-segregating themselves into the also-ran category when it comes to advancement. Believe me, that will be plain and self-evident to them from everyone I talk to during reviews next March.

Not even remotely true at our company.  Hell, 90% of our sales force and 80% of our services folk don’t even work in the same city as our corp office.  And in the cities that have remote offices people only go in when we have customers on site.

[Buzzrock 14,944]

Yeah I work in a field sales office and pretty much no one comes in any more. Maybe one day a week. I’ve been invited to quite a few internal strategy sessions/lunches though.

[Homercles 10,206]

“This is how it is in my narrow frame of reference thus I will apply it to a global audience and judge those who don’t agree with me”

I think remote work is here to stay, at employers discretion.  At my large employer, I’ve been working with people across the globe for decades productively and Fridays were already pretty much WFH for most anyways.  My first time back in the office was in March for a two-day strategy session, and they’d reno’d the place into endless hotel cubes…there was no one there. 
 

Also I bet many, especially in the Austin area, are seeing opportunity to reduce infrastructure expenses and sell off those giant buildings with massive electrical, landscaping and general upkeep not to mention the wasted vast parking lots.  
 

Hell I wish I’d taken advantage of it back 15 years or so ago, when they’d give you $500 to setup your home office and pay your Internet bill.  I still have a jack number but my huge 8x8 cube is long gone.  
 

But go ahead Macklemore and tell us about the ‘juniors’ who are committing career suicide.  May be the case at your workplace but don’t generalize.  

[F250 28,823]

39 minutes ago, Covri said:

What do you do and what do the juniors do?

Call center supervisor. Answer phones.

 

[tbone_ 14,166]

A go-getter with upper management potential. The juniors who exhibit those qualities where I work come to the office.

Idgaf where he works. He either gets his job done or he doesn’t. It’ll be obvious either way. We can communicate from wherever.

[F250 28,823]

8 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Not even remotely true at our company.  Hell, 90% of our sales force and 80% of our services folk don’t even work in the same city as our corp office.  And in the cities that have remote offices people only go in when we have customers on site.

Same in Tech. Most of us are in different cities and a lot are not even in the same country. We are really slim when it comes to middle management. Everyone is a pro and gets their work done, no reason to have a useless middle man keeping an eye on them. Everyone works from home.

 

[crash_davis 23,115]

I've been working from home full time for almost 20 years. There was a 2 year stint where I took a job running operations at a small start up. FUCK THAT. 

I quit and found another job with full time WFH. Fuck all the bullshit around working in an office. Time savings not commuting is a huge benefit. You get back an hour to 2 hours every day of your life. Money comes and go. Time is the true commodity that people should care about.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,225]

2 hours ago, Macklemore said:

The juniors are missing out from the mentorship and personal relationships being made. This board is mostly made up of guys in their 40s and 50s. Our situation is different. I have an open door - a junior can pop in my office and ask me a question or talk strategy or shoot the shit. You think they’re going to call me and do the same. No. 

Counterpoint:  No one wants to talk to your stupid ass in person either.

[Covri 6,253]

9 minutes ago, F250 said:

Call center supervisor. Answer phones.

 

Yeah if that’s the case I get his attitude and why he’s trying to punish his frontline employees. I don’t agree with it, but I know the type. 
 

My job went remote because of Covid and at first I was like this is a nice temporary change from the commute, but I do prefer the office so I can separate work from home life. After a year though with no drop in my productivity and not commuting, the only thing missing was meetings over lunch and dinner with sales people. I do those now and just go back home afterwards. 

[Neonmoon 38,130]

The same “drop in the office for a chat” assholes never do any fucking work and are a complete drain on the company. 

[Homercles 10,206]

9 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The same “drop in the office for a chat” assholes never do any fucking work and are a complete drain on the company. 

[Hmbre97 6,331]

2 hours ago, Macklemore said:

Elon is a trendsetter like him or not and for the typical spineless C-suite/HR hack making decisions regarding WFH, he and Tesla will be one big data point against what has been a seemingly unstoppable WFH tide. It will give others backbone to buck the trend because he has been the pied piper of leading the revolution of clean, zero emission transport single-handedly. He has street cred with all the bullshit corporate America is trying to feed us.  

Nothing says clean transport revolutionary like forcing people to needlessly commute to their jobs. Good police work there, Lou.

 

10 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Engineering churn in Norcal is almost de rigueur.  But if you are on the vehicles team you are departing for... Lucid?  Who else is considered part of the secret sauce that is at risk of leaving - administration?  finance?  operations?

I'm sure all the major manufacturers looking to pivot to EVs wouldn't give a second look at Tesla employees. They're better off finding a good refridgerator box so they have something to live in when they're homeless.

8 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It will go back in the bottle when workers keep getting passed over for promotions for younger people who work in the office even if WFH employee is more productive. Younger people want to be in the office, they are much cheaper. They will be perceived as more committed to the company just from their face time and relationships they build. Top companies won't see it as "losing" people but as "replacing" people.

Big boomer energy

[choripan 790]

FWIW, there was a big exodus over the last 5-10 years or so from the Big 3 to Tesla and, to a lesser extent, Rivian, and to a MUCH lesser extent, jabronis like Lucid, Fisker, etc. That tide has dramatically reversed in the last year or so, especially since GM's CEO introduced "Work Appropriately" as the company's motto when it comes to work location (based on it's "Dress Appropriately" dress code).

A lot of these jobs are not in the Metro Detroit area because WFH has allowed a distributed workforce. Another trend is that a lot of the people are leaving the Bay Area, Cruise employees especially, to go to lower COL areas where their salary stretches farther, but where there's a good baseline level of amenities. Think places like second tier cities (Charlotte, Nashville, etc.) or college towns.

Source: I advise manufacturing companies on "stuff." My wife was medium-high up at GM for 3 years. I am constantly in touch with some folks, and still maintain contacts and keep in touch with a lot of people at other companies.

[choripan 790]

That was intended to be a "The More You Know" type post that augmented the posts in this here thread about Musk really fucking up this WFH thing.

[52-80 19,257]

35 minutes ago, Hmbre97 said:

I'm sure all the major manufacturers looking to pivot to EVs wouldn't give a second look at Tesla employees. They're better off finding a good refridgerator box so they have something to live in when they're homeless.

Just because everybody wants to fuck the prom queen doesnt mean the prom queen wants to fuck everybody.  

How did you manage to read that as Tesla folks unable to find alternate employment, rather than them not wanting alternate employment.  Like yeah, the vehicle propulsion team in Palo Alto and Austin are dying to work for a Stellantis subsidiry. 

Elon holding firm opinions and demanding to run things *his way* is not  a surprising new development. Thats been the longstanding M.O., leaked through various memos, and have led to some high profile people cycling through quickly. If youre not onboard, youre out. Worked fine so far. 
 

[Hmbre97 6,331]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Just because everybody wants to fuck the prom queen doesnt mean the prom queen wants to fuck everybody.  

How did you manage to read that as Tesla folks unable to find alternate employment, rather than them not wanting alternate employment.  Like yeah, the vehicle propulsion team in Palo Alto and Austin are dying to work for a Stellantis subsidiry. 

Elon holding firm opinions and demanding to run things *his way* is not  a surprising new development. Thats been the longstanding M.O., leaked through various memos, and have led to some high profile people cycling through quickly. If youre not onboard, youre out. Worked fine so far. 
 

But using your analogy, the prom queen hooked up with the prom king when he was star quarterback in HS. Sure, he had some flaws but he's ripped and everyone wants him so you're willing to overlook them. Fast forward a couple years and the prom queen just found out the prom kings first name is really Tathan and he is doing all kinds of crazy shit and losing his focus on just being a qb after letting the lime light get to him. After abruptly transferring from California to Texas last year, now he's giving you ultimatums and just acting like a dickhead. The prom queen realizes there are other system qb's that have been playing for a while with stable careers that are on the come up and it might be time to bail. 

[Tom 2,959]

Super weird to see some people actively rooting for corporations everywhere to force everyone back to their miserable commutes and offices.  Our company already brought us back in a couple of months ago and we've already had two people quit to do basically the same thing but for companies that offered full-time remote.  I've been at my company about five years and genuinely enjoy what I do, and I've been debating possibly doing the same thing if the right opportunity comes along.  Even at the office, 95% of the people I communicate with daily are sitting in offices in Chicago, on the west coast, east coast, and overseas, and we communicate either by IM, email, or phone.  There's very little reason for me to drive 45 minutes each way every day for something I could do just as well and efficiently in my home office.

And this is just my own personal opinion and I'm obviously not speaking for anyone else, but I would personally choose to work from home even if it meant less money in the long run and the chance of being passed over for a promotion if it meant never having to come into the office again.  The money and time you save, the bullshit and annoyances you avoid at the office, as well as the freedom to live anywhere you want is too great to pass up if you have the option.  Money isn't everything. 

[Left Coast 863]

Hey Elon, we took a road trip in our Model Y up to the Bay Area over Memorial Day and TWICE when we were going 80 on the interstate in cruise control the car suddenly slammed on its brakes for no fucking reason. Not only did it scare the shit out of us, it for sure scared the shit out of the people behind us. When I got home I googled it and sure enough: 

Tesla is under federal scrutiny for ‘phantom braking’ complaints

https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2022-02-02/tesla-is-under-federal-scrutiny-for-phantom-braking-complaints?_amp=true

So how about fixing your fucking cars before the kill someone (oh wait too late) instead of being concerned where Mary in Payroll is approving timesheets?

God I can’t wait until the Rivian is delivered so we can sell this POS.

[Hefeweizen 5,333]

Hey guys you need to understand Elon is awesome because he’s putting juniors in their place.  They just don’t have the work ethic boomers have!  I bet they eat avocado toast at home before they put on their Birkenstocks.

[BurntOrange&White 40,034]

Jesus just go back to the office, fucking cry babies. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by BurntOrange&White

[Snake Diggity 4,627]

Elon is fucking up, unless as speculated up thread he’s just laying groundwork for a big layoff.

Forcing employees to come into an office is stupid.  It is inefficient (time employees have to spend getting ready and commuting, time employees spend socializing unproductively, etc.).  It exposes a lack of trust that employers have in their employees.  And it’s costly (maintaining the office).

Some jobs can only be done onsite, but that number is decreasing rapidly as technology advances.  Some roles benefit from in person interaction.  But most jobs that require in-office work are just the result of a boomer boss with antiquated views.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Snake Diggity

[CleverNickname 1,321]

State worker perspective:

Management is older. And maybe there is a Fox-news anti-millenial/GenZ angle too. But there is clearly a cadre who wants to see state workers come to the bright shiny new north capitol complex. The Leg spent millions, gotta see some buttons in seats. (Fwiw Perry was going to move agencies out into cheap endless low slung office complexes out on 130, but Abbot changed that to expensive high rises downtown).

Fact is most state jobs pay sucks. Lots of 40-50k type wages. A lot of folks only make it because they bought a house in the 1990s. Virtually every new hire lives betlyibd Hutto or Smithville or Luling. Upper management is barely in the 100s, which isn't enough to live in the city. Add to that people carrying student debt, Austin's insane housing prices, and the cessation of the state pension as a carrot. The only way state govt will continue to function is to let folks work from home 90% of the time. They should also consider relocating functions that require being in the office to lower cost cities throughout the state.

To the broader discussion: it doesn't matter one CEOs preference. What matters is what it takes to get and retain good folks. Stubborn codgers are just going to get rolled by market forces far beyond their control. They might not like it, but they will have to adapt anyway.

[Auto Driller 2,506]

Boomers clamoring for a return to the office worried that they won’t be able to sexually harass college grads and get forced laughs from middle management to their stupid jokes. Face it - no one cares about your vast experience. You can embrace WFH now or you can lose your best employees and then the company will move to WFH once you get forced into retirement in 3 years.

[tbone_ 14,166]

Face it - no one cares about your vast experience.

Not entirely true there whippersnapper.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,357]

21 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

Boomers clamoring for a return to the office worried that they won’t be able to sexually harass college grads and get forced laughs from middle management to their stupid jokes. Face it - no one cares about your vast experience. You can embrace WFH now or you can lose your best employees and then the company will move to WFH once you get forced into retirement in 3 years.

You sound like a dot-com CEO from the 90's