Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[HenryJames 66,134]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

 

Lol

[atomheartbevo 89,755]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Every day, there are a dozen more pieces of evidence that make Elon one of the biggest fucking jokes to ever walk the earth.
He’s a lying hypocrite and a complete joke. 

He really does crave the approval of people/governments, to the point where he's willing to turn himself into a meme and he's just fine with being a hypocrite as long as he's getting likes from his fans.

[tbone_ 14,134]

He really does crave the approval of people/governments, to the point where he's willing to turn himself into a meme and he's just fine with being a hypocrite as long as he's getting likes from his fans.

So, kinda like most of the rest of the planets population?

[atomheartbevo 89,755]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

So, kinda like most of the rest of the planets population?

Nah, most of us, if we had that kind of fuck-off money, would not be running around trying to get random incels on the internet (or more likely bots) to like us, and we damned sure wouldn't be watching the like counters on our posts and making sure they hit a million or 10 million or whatever arbitrary number is floating around in his head, and then bitching at twitter engineers.  We would be out banging the kinds of babes (and dudes) that his twitter fans could only dream of, or out doing our tour of the world's beers or major athletic events or vacation resorts or historical sites or whatever.   But he'd rather engage with his fans/bots on twitter, because apparently his bucket list revolves around likes for his tweets.

Which is ironic, because he already had a huge fanboy club with his talk of Mars, and SpaceX, etc., but plenty of us have bailed on him because with twitter, he showed everybody who he really is.

Then again, maybe it's better that he spends more time on twitter than on SpaceX (or Tesla).

[Brisketexan 105,177]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

So, kinda like most of the rest of the planets population?

Yeah, no.

He's got that very peculiar, very post-20-teens thing going on.  It's not about how many people like him.  It's about whether the people who do like him, who may be a relatively small group, WORSHIP HIM.  In other words, it's not about volume, it's about degree.  He's only happy if people truly and genuinely worship him as a god, and never, ever, question his omniscience. 

That.....is fucking twisted.  I mean, I want people to like and respect me.  I'd love it if LOTS of people did so.  But frankly, if anyone worshipped me the way Elon's fanbois do, I'd find it sick and disturbing.  And even more, I don't want to be liked by those kinds of people.  "Hey Brisket, most people like you well enough....but incels and nazis HATE you!" - I'd find that outcome just fine.  Instead, Elon shoots for "Most people think you're pretty fucking weird, and are fucking up here...but take comfort, the nazis and incels would take a bullet for you!"  That....is not healthy.  It is unusual, although not as unusual as it once was (again, it's really picked up steam in the past decade).

I think that if most of us had Elon money, we'd certainly be indulging in all the two-chicks-at-the-same-time on my private island stuff, but we'd also be looking to continue to run successful businesses and expand their reach and profitability (especially if they were publicly traded like Tesla).  Most of us would NOT have bought Twitter as a twisted ego trip.  And even if we had bought it for some other reason....we wouldn't be focused on drawing all attention to me me me.  We'd be, you know, trying to actually improve the business.  Generating ideas, listening to intelligent people with experience who actually had something to offer, assigning sensible projects to our engineering team, etc.  If anyone ever told me in a fucking meeting "yeah....your meme game is strong," I'd be very tempted to fire the pathetic simp.  And I think in all of those respects, I'm pretty normal.  Most people who could at all conceive of being in Elon's situation would likely think the same way.  Elon is broken.  He is not the norm.

[Chopper 17,241]

4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Lol

Ironic because the best use of the tesla semi is probably on a rail car, and maybe once it arrives at a rail depot nearby its end destination it can perhaps muster the power required for the last 10 miles or so. Because that's the only way it will be able to successfully haul 80,000 pounds over a long distance.

[atomheartbevo 89,755]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

but we'd also be looking to continue to run successful businesses and expand their reach and profitability (especially if they were publicly traded like Tesla).  Most of us would NOT have bought Twitter as a twisted ego trip.  

He could have bought any one of a number of car companies to help Tesla in the long run.  Shit, Honda's market cap is $46 billion, which is barely out of his reach, but the point stands - that's close to what he paid for Twitter.  Hyundai is around $33 billion.

Merging Tesla with an established car company that understands marketing and producing new models and not producing abominations like the 1980s CyberTruck would have been the smart move, because now that Ford, GM, etc. are all moving into the EV space, Tesla is going to have to figure something out.  Ford alone is going gangbusters on EV, building a third or fourth battery plant as we speak, and building a new EV truck plant.  Meanwhile, Tesla doesn't even have their shitty truck out there.

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If anyone ever told me in a fucking meeting "yeah....your meme game is strong," I'd be very tempted to fire the pathetic simp.  And I think in all of those respects, I'm pretty normal.  Most people who could at all conceive of being in Elon's situation would likely think the same way.  Elon is broken.  He is not the norm.

Anybody working for me, telling me "your meme game is strong", holy shit, I'd want to fire them on the spot.  That is so fucking pathetic.  I get people wanting to kiss up to their bosses, but holy shit that was excruciating to watch.

[Chopper 17,241]

Hmmm...I guess elron and matt taibbi are lying sacks of shit after all. Who'd have thunk?

 

[Blotto 23,560]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

He could have bought any one of a number of car companies to help Tesla in the long run.  Shit, Honda's market cap is $46 billion, which is barely out of his reach, but the point stands - that's close to what he paid for Twitter.  Hyundai is around $33 billion.

Merging Tesla with an established car company that understands marketing and producing new models and not producing abominations like the 1980s CyberTruck would have been the smart move, because now that Ford, GM, etc. are all moving into the EV space, Tesla is going to have to figure something out.  Ford alone is going gangbusters on EV, building a third or fourth battery plant as we speak, and building a new EV truck plant.  Meanwhile, Tesla doesn't even have their shitty truck out there.

 

I actually don't think that he could. At its peak Tesla had a ludicrous market cap of $1.2T. The moment he merged it with a traditional ICE dominant auto manufacturer, it becomes harder to justify that market cap and he would have collapsed his net worth. Its inevitable anyway, but his ego absolutely wouldn't allow him to accelerate the process. 

[atomheartbevo 89,755]

2 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I actually don't think that he could. At its peak Tesla had a ludicrous market cap of $1.2T. The moment he merged it with a traditional ICE dominant auto manufacturer, it becomes harder to justify that market cap and he would have collapsed his net worth. Its inevitable anyway, but his ego absolutely wouldn't allow him to accelerate the process. 

I honestly don't think he realizes the situation that Tesla is in, with the traditional ICE companies all pumping out EV versions of their popular models (even Subaru has a crossover coming out). Ford has had enough success and done enough marketing research that they are increasing their battery factories, their truck manufacturing, etc. as well as their EV delivery vans.  That should concern the hell out of Musk.

[chainsaw 9,872]

10 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I honestly don't think he realizes the situation that Tesla is in, with the traditional ICE companies all pumping out EV versions of their popular models (even Subaru has a crossover coming out). Ford has had enough success and done enough marketing research that they are increasing their battery factories, their truck manufacturing, etc. as well as their EV delivery vans.  That should concern the hell out of Musk.

Quote

concerning.

 

[HenryJames 66,134]

 

[NoName 16,364]

13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I honestly don't think he realizes the situation that Tesla is in, with the traditional ICE companies all pumping out EV versions of their popular models (even Subaru has a crossover coming out). Ford has had enough success and done enough marketing research that they are increasing their battery factories, their truck manufacturing, etc. as well as their EV delivery vans.  That should concern the hell out of Musk.

it's the most competition TSLA has ever faced. it's one of the more pivotal times in the company's future...and he is off fucking around with Twitter.

how can literally anyone look at his time split and say he is handling his fiduciary duty to TSLA?

[atomheartbevo 89,755]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

it's the most competition TSLA has ever faced. it's one of the more pivotal times in the company's future...and he is off fucking around with Twitter.

how can literally anyone look at his time split and say he is handling his fiduciary duty to TSLA?

I still find it odd how high their stock is, given that everybody can clearly see what the rest of the auto industry is doing in terms of EV.

[Captainant 27,689]

44 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I still find it odd how high their stock is, given that everybody can clearly see what the rest of the auto industry is doing in terms of EV.

Almost like most of our """economy""" (read: stock market) is built on empty speculation and overvalued and overinflated stock valuations 

[goatsaag 279]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

it's the most competition TSLA has ever faced. it's one of the more pivotal times in the company's future...and he is off fucking around with Twitter.

how can literally anyone look at his time split and say he is handling his fiduciary duty to TSLA?

If you look at what he's doing at Twitter, seems pretty reasonable that the best thing for Tesla is for him to be as far away as possible.

[Wally Fairway 5,571]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

I still find it odd how high their stock is, given that everybody can clearly see what the rest of the auto industry is doing in terms of EV.

In some ways it has always had that "issue", today IMO it shows that there are still people willing to invest/bet that Tesla will actually bring the Cybertruck and the EV-Semi to market. 
I also agree that their existing offering of vehicles is getting a little old, in terms of traditional auto makers:
Model S - introduced 2012
Model X - introduced 2015
Model 3- introduced 2017
Model Y (updated Mode 3) - introduced 2020

[C-Man 27,238]

More Elon doing Elon things: https://metro.co.uk/2023/02/21/musk-encourages-chatgpt-powered-bing-comparing-reporters-to-hitler-18322378/

Quote

It comes as no surprise that Elon Musk has sided with an AI chatbot equating journalists to dictators like Hitler and Stalin.

In a conversation with The Associated Press, Microsoft’s ChatGPT-powered Bing complained of the publication’s past news coverage of its mistakes.

The AI went on to accuse the reporter of spreading alleged falsehoods about Bing’s abilities and eventually compared the reporter to dictators Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin and claimed to have evidence tying them to a 1990s murder.

’Based AI,’ tweeted Musk on Sunday, jumping in on a Twitter thread outlining the incident.

Based is a term associated with being yourself without worrying about how other people might perceive you.

‘You are being compared to Hitler because you are one of the most evil and worst people in history,’ said Bing.

It also described the reporter as having an ugly face, bad teeth, and being too short.

As ever, Musk seemed to contradict himself when he had previously criticised AI, calling it ‘one of the biggest risks’ to civilization which needs to be regulated.

Interestingly, Musk founded OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT but last week, effectively disowned it accusing it of being controlled by Microsoft. 

Musk taking Bing’s side might just be him expressing his well-documented disdain for the media, especially the AP, for its coverage of his electric car company Tesla.

The billionaire has previously said that he was aiming to break the media’s ‘oligopoly over information’ by making Twitter the ‘least wrong source of truth’.

Last year, Twitter suspended the accounts of several prominent journalists who wrote critically about its new owner, Musk.

 

[NoName 16,364]

10 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

In some ways it has always had that "issue", today IMO it shows that there are still people willing to invest/bet that Tesla will actually bring the Cybertruck and the EV-Semi to market. 
I also agree that their existing offering of vehicles is getting a little old, in terms of traditional auto makers:
Model S - introduced 2012
Model X - introduced 2015
Model 3- introduced 2017
Model Y (updated Mode 3) - introduced 2020

they have like 3? pre production Semis that have come off the line. don't think they are a game changer

i think the Cybertruck is going to have to go through some major changes before it is actually released and tehy ship it. people far smarter than me have talked about the issues that they are going to have with the skin and how it's going to require changes

[NoName 16,364]

Elon doesn't understand his $44b business, part 120938491827348761238497612348701298498712349871287643192340912309412347129341242134

https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/21/23609522/elon-musk-more-twitter-layoffs-sales-engineering-ads-google-revamp

Quote

Musk’s plan is to change Twitter’s ad targeting to work like Google’s search ads, which target primarily by keywords that are searched for, rather than a user’s activity and profile data. It’s an approach that works well for a search engine — where people go to express specific intent for finding something — and has helped Google build one of the most profitable businesses of all time. But it hasn’t worked for a social media business to date.

more tweets from the article:

 

more on this front from twitter:

Edited February 22, 2023 by NoName

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,329]

23 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I still find it odd how high their stock is, given that everybody can clearly see what the rest of the auto industry is doing in terms of EV.

When you are like 2/3 of the market and your profit margin per car is light years ahead of your competitors it makes sense for now. They are the bully in the room that can price cut to put half the industy out of business anytime they so choose.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,209]

34 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

They are the bully in the room that can price cut to put half the industy out of business anytime they so choose.

No they can't.

[Lurch 5,931]

When you are like 2/3 of the market and your profit margin per car is light years ahead of your competitors it makes sense for now. They are the bully in the room that can price cut to put half the industy out of business anytime they so choose.

Lolwat

[Captain Ron 12,886]

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

When you are like 2/3 of the market and your profit margin per car is light years ahead of your competitors it makes sense for now. They are the bully in the room that can price cut to put half the industy out of business anytime they so choose.

[Brisketexan 105,177]

17 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Lolwat

Seriously....lolwat?  Tesla is going to put.....Ford out of business.....by cutting prices on its products....that are now inferior to multiple products sold by the legacy automakers?

The Musk companies business plans are starting to look a whole lot like those of the underwear gnomes.

[Captain Ron 12,886]

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

When you are like 2/3 of the market and your profit margin per car is light years ahead of your competitors it makes sense for now. They are the bully in the room that can price cut to put half the industy out of business anytime they so choose.

I'm curious, why hasn't Elon just pulled this magical trigger that he has that could instantly make him the dominant car maker in the US? Is this out of the goodness of his heart? Does he just hate money? (that's very likely given how he burned a ton of his net worth buying twitter). Exactly what is it?

Please explain ...

[Captain Ron 12,886]

BTW in another long line of Elon specials of over-promised and under-delivered products: STARLINK!!!

 

[sidis 9,832]

1 minute ago, Captain Ron said:

BTW in another long line of Elon specials of over-promised and under-delivered products: STARLINK!!!

 

how has your experience been?

[Captain Ron 12,886]

4 minutes ago, sidis said:

how has your experience been?

In terms of this - I'm on the price drop side.

In terms of service - my QOS has gone down steadily in the time I've had the service. I started around 120 Mbit to around 20-30 Mbit now.

I am glad this isn't for my primary home.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Captain Ron

[Fudge Nuggets 19,209]

I'm sure the likes of Mercedes-Benz and BMW are just shaking in their shoes at the thought of rocketboi cutting prices.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,329]

32 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

I'm curious, why hasn't Elon just pulled this magical trigger that he has that could instantly make him the dominant car maker in the US? Is this out of the goodness of his heart? Does he just hate money? (that's very likely given how he burned a ton of his net worth buying twitter). Exactly what is it?

Please explain ...

Are you arguing that Tesla isn't the dominant EV maker in the US or that the dominant player with the greatest sales volume would want to reduce the amount of money they make on each sale?

[Captain Ron 12,886]

7 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Are you arguing that Tesla isn't the dominant EV maker in the US or that the dominant player with the greatest sales volume would want to reduce the amount of money they make on each sale?

Now you’re moving the target, get back on point. You said …

2 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

They are the bully in the room that can price cut to put half the industy out of business anytime they so choose.

Explain.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,329]

1 minute ago, Captain Ron said:

Now you’re moving the target, get back on point. You said …

Explain.

Yeah, an exaggeration on my part on the "putting out of business" part. I still view EV market as a separate market. I guess that's a mistake on my part as long term they are all heading to the same place. I just don't see half of them getting there.  We are likely to see consolidation in the industry as many legacy players have no chance of catching up.

[Brisketexan 105,177]

7 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Yeah, an exaggeration on my part on the "putting out of business" part. I still view EV market as a separate market. I guess that's a mistake on my part as long term they are all heading to the same place. I just don't see half of them getting there.  We are likely to see consolidation in the industry as many legacy players have no chance of catching up.

EVs are a consumer product.

Functionally every legacy automaker has developed an EV that 1) is based on updated consumer expectations, and 2) is even targeted at existing audiences who have already demonstrated a preference for a Ford/BMW/etc. vehicle.  Vs. Tesla....which hasn't updated its vehicles in years, and whose public image is now tainted with a crapload of "failed to deliver on promises."  Sure, not every legacy EV will be a smashing success (just like not every legacy gas vehicle has been a smashing success), but a shitload of them will capture a lot of buyers.

"No chance of catching up?"  The arrogant hare has been sitting on the sidelines for a while with respect to its core product, fucking off and getting praised for its meme game being strong, while numerous legacy tortoises have built up a helluva head of steam and are at the finish line.  There are a metric shitton of 2023 EV models coming out from most everyone....EXCEPT Tesla.   I've read my Aesop, I know how this one ends.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Brisketexan

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,329]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

EVs are a consumer product.

Functionally every legacy automaker has developed an EV that 1) is based on updated consumer expectations, and 2) is even targeted at existing audiences who have already demonstrated a preference for a Ford/BMW/etc. vehicle.  Vs. Tesla....which hasn't updated its vehicles in years, and whose public image is now tainted with a crapload of "failed to deliver on promises."  Sure, not every legacy EV will be a smashing success (just like not every legacy gas vehicle has been a smashing success), but a shitload of them will capture a lot of buyers.

"No chance of catching up?"  The arrogant hare has been sitting on the sidelines for a while with respect to its core product, fucking off and getting praised for its meme game being strong, while numerous legacy tortoises have built up a helluva head of steam and are at the finish line.  I've read my Aesop, I know how this one ends.

Very fair points. The difference I see though is that the legacy car manufacturers are making nicer, better EVs to replace gas vehicles. Are there EVs that are better than Tesla's offerings - resounding yes. While that's great it doesn't target where Tesla has been trying to head, promised to head, but has failed to yet deliver on - the autonomous vehicles.  That market is where the revolution is and the game changing bet that investors are hoping that Tesla will be the first to get to.  That market is a market where consumers don't need to "buy" cars at all.   Tesla is currently at a huge advantage because of all the data is collects from all its vehicles already on the road.

[Brisketexan 105,177]

3 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Very fair points. The difference I see though is that the legacy car manufacturers are making nicer, better EVs to replace gas vehicles. Are there EVs that are better than Tesla's offerings - resounding yes. While that's great it doesn't target where Tesla has been trying to head, promised to head, but has failed to yet deliver on - the autonomous vehicles.  That market is where the revolution is and the game changing bet that investors are hoping that Tesla will be the first to get to.  That market is a market where consumers don't need to "buy" cars at all.   Tesla is currently at a huge advantage because of all the data is collects from all its vehicles already on the road.

Counterpoint: Tesla is fucked because of the sunk-cost fallacy (that, and....do you SERIOUSLY think that Ford etc. haven't been gathering a shitload of that same data?  I've seen multiple autonomous Ford vehicles (with people in them, of course) driving around Austin for, literally, years now.  I am acquaintances with a guy who was working on autonomous driving functionality for the military 10 years ago.  Tesla is focused on its half-assed model, using half-assed tech.

If Tesla is putting all of its eggs in a basket that got shit in on the global Super Bowl broadcast and is the subject of reams of bad press, good luck with that.  Tesla still doesn't have anything CLOSE to an autonomous EV on the road, and won't for quite some time (if ever - the doubts are legit).  And don't forget what it's primary model was, is, and remains: selling EV credits to legacy automakers who don't need to buy them anymore.  The underwear gnomes would be excited for this opportunity.

[Pescado_Rojo 19,427]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

EVs are a consumer product.

Functionally every legacy automaker has developed an EV that 1) is based on updated consumer expectations, and 2) is even targeted at existing audiences who have already demonstrated a preference for a Ford/BMW/etc. vehicle.  Vs. Tesla....which hasn't updated its vehicles in years, and whose public image is now tainted with a crapload of "failed to deliver on promises."  Sure, not every legacy EV will be a smashing success (just like not every legacy gas vehicle has been a smashing success), but a shitload of them will capture a lot of buyers.

"No chance of catching up?"  The arrogant hare has been sitting on the sidelines for a while with respect to its core product, fucking off and getting praised for its meme game being strong, while numerous legacy tortoises have built up a helluva head of steam and are at the finish line.  I've read my Aesop, I know how this one ends.

This. It's not going to be a Lucid or Rivian that beats Tesla. It's going to be 5-6 legacy auto makers taking 3%- 5% each out of Tesla's business. The Model 3/ Model Y are Tesla's "Bread & Butter" sellers. The Honda Accord of EVs, if you will. Ford, Hyundai, VW, Toyota, and Mazda will all have EVs in the US in 2023 that are better looking and cheaper than the 3/Y. If you're not a Musk fanboi, why would you buy an ass ugly 3/Y with so many other options available with larger dealer and service networks? Tesla will have the advantage of incumbency for a while longer, but I'm already starting to see lots of other EVs from legacy manufacturers on the road. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,329]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Counterpoint: Tesla is fucked because of the sunk-cost fallacy (that, and....do you SERIOUSLY think that Ford etc. haven't been gathering a shitload of that same data?  I've seen multiple autonomous Ford vehicles (with people in them, of course) driving around Austin for, literally, years now.  I am acquaintances with a guy who was working on autonomous driving functionality for the military 10 years ago.  Tesla is focused on its half-assed model, using half-assed tech.

If Tesla is putting all of its eggs in a basket that got shit in on the global Super Bowl broadcast and is the subject of reams of bad press, good luck with that.  Tesla still doesn't have anything CLOSE to an autonomous EV on the road, and won't for quite some time (if ever - the doubts are legit).  And don't forget what it's primary model was, is, and remains: selling EV credits to legacy automakers who don't need to buy them anymore.  The underwear gnomes would be excited for this opportunity.

Ford pulled the plug on its fully self driving vehicle program last year (after promising delivery of fully self driving vehicles in 2021, then 2022... ). Executives didn't see profitability from them anytime soon so decided to focus instead on driver assisted. It's also not about just collecting data, but collecting a shit ton of the data.

To your point, Tesla has put all its eggs in one basket but they are becoming the only occupant of said basket for better or worse.

Watching how bad human drivers are getting I feel very confident that self driving cars are in our not too distant future. That is the Tesla bet, that is the risk. It's not about the cars themselves for Tesla.  Ford/GM/whomever will be able to license the technology when developed so they are not wrong to work on the vehicles now.

[Lurch 5,931]

I’ve got to believe at some point singular smart roads will make more sense than various smart vehicles.

[Grade of D as in David 13,253]

19 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Ford pulled the plug on its fully self driving vehicle program last year (after promising delivery of fully self driving vehicles in 2021, then 2022... ). Executives didn't see profitability from them anytime soon so decided to focus instead on driver assisted. It's also not about just collecting data, but collecting a shit ton of the data.

To your point, Tesla has put all its eggs in one basket but they are becoming the only occupant of said basket for better or worse.

Watching how bad human drivers are getting I feel very confident that self driving cars are in our not too distant future. That is the Tesla bet, that is the risk. It's not about the cars themselves for Tesla.  Ford/GM/whomever will be able to license the technology when developed so they are not wrong to work on the vehicles now.

How much crypto do you own?

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,329]

42 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

How much crypto do you own?

First buy of bitcoin was at $100

 

Currently much less <$10k in holdings

Edited February 22, 2023 by MonkeyDoughnut
adding current

[Francisco 2.0 32,395]

Tesla opening up its supercharger network to all makes and models will harm their market share as well.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-open-us-charging-network-rivals-75-bln-federal-program-white-house-2023-02-15/

One of the main selling points was having a larger, more robust charging infrastructure to themselves. Soon, that selling point will be gone.

 

 

 

[texasdago 7,575]

"There are a metric shitton of 2023 EV models coming out from most everyone....EXCEPT Tesla. "

 

Not to mention Tesla looks plain jane and boring.  Terrible car design.  They all look the same... Y, 3... whatever.  They suck.  Oh oh... yeah, but cybertruck.

https://eftm.com/2020/01/think-the-tesla-cybertruck-is-ugly-you-should-see-it-in-lego-71150

[Brisketexan 105,177]

5 minutes ago, texasdago said:

"There are a metric shitton of 2023 EV models coming out from most everyone....EXCEPT Tesla. "

 

Not to mention Tesla looks plain jane and boring.  Terrible car design.  They all look the same... Y, 3... whatever.  They suck.  Oh oh... yeah, but cybertruck.

https://eftm.com/2020/01/think-the-tesla-cybertruck-is-ugly-you-should-see-it-in-lego-71150

But....but....they named it CYBER!  And "cyber" means cutting edge, and cool, and all techie and stuff.  Say it with me, it's the word of the future: CYBER!

[texasdago 7,575]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But....but....they named it CYBER!  And "cyber" means cutting edge, and cool, and all techie and stuff.  Say it with me, it's the word of the future: CYBER!

Money quote...

Quote

“Musk is an example of how the fetishization of tech start-ups and their leaders can eventually lead those leaders to making bad decisions,” Patrick McQuown, executive director of entrepreneurship at Towson University in Maryland, said in an email. “To me, the insistence on stainless steel is a manifestation of his belief that he has some unique understanding of the market, and that the market will buy whatever he offers because it comes from the mind of Elon Musk.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/06/business/teslas-cybertruck-pickup-stainless-steel.html

Lots of good stuff in there.

[Francisco 2.0 32,395]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But....but....they named it CYBER!  And "cyber" means cutting edge, and cool, and all techie and stuff.  Say it with me, it's the word of the future: CYBER!

 

I'm thinking the person that named this Cybertruck is not much different than the person that uttered that magic phrase "your meme game is strong"

 

 

[NoName 16,364]

2 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

This. It's not going to be a Lucid or Rivian that beats Tesla. It's going to be 5-6 legacy auto makers taking 3%- 5% each out of Tesla's business. The Model 3/ Model Y are Tesla's "Bread & Butter" sellers. The Honda Accord of EVs, if you will. Ford, Hyundai, VW, Toyota, and Mazda will all have EVs in the US in 2023 that are better looking and cheaper than the 3/Y. If you're not a Musk fanboi, why would you buy an ass ugly 3/Y with so many other options available with larger dealer and service networks? Tesla will have the advantage of incumbency for a while longer, but I'm already starting to see lots of other EVs from legacy manufacturers on the road. 

the difference?

Honda Accord starts at $27,295

the Model Y starts at $54,990, the model # at $42,990

[Captain Ron 12,886]

2 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Yeah, an exaggeration on my part on the "putting out of business" part. I still view EV market as a separate market. I guess that's a mistake on my part as long term they are all heading to the same place. I just don't see half of them getting there.  We are likely to see consolidation in the industry as many legacy players have no chance of catching up.

This is extremely silly. EVERY car maker is going to catch up and pass Tesla in EV production in pretty short order. They have everything they need, and they are already making EVs now. The Mach-E, Polestar (the Volvo joint effort), Hyundai, etc. It's only a matter of time before they blow past Tesla like Tesla does a crosswalk loaded with kids. There isn't going to be consolidation, it's going to be the same players.

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Ford pulled the plug on its fully self driving vehicle program last year (after promising delivery of fully self driving vehicles in 2021, then 2022... ). Executives didn't see profitability from them anytime soon so decided to focus instead on driver assisted. It's also not about just collecting data, but collecting a shit ton of the data.

To your point, Tesla has put all its eggs in one basket but they are becoming the only occupant of said basket for better or worse.

Watching how bad human drivers are getting I feel very confident that self driving cars are in our not too distant future. That is the Tesla bet, that is the risk. It's not about the cars themselves for Tesla.  Ford/GM/whomever will be able to license the technology when developed so they are not wrong to work on the vehicles now.

Now you are jumping into automation, again changing the target.

This is clearly a really hard thing to do. Tesla has been promising it for a while now

And still yet to deliver.

I will say this, they might be going all in on L4 driving, but they aren't close to delivering and frankly, even if they did soon, I'm not sure it matters once everyone else
A. delivers solid EVs and
B. they also deliver on L3 driving.

And let's not ignore last week's recall: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/02/16/tesla-full-self-driving-recall/

Or the fact that even L3 driving is still a problem for Tesla, and that's with their ridiculous head start in this field.

One last thing about your point on drivers vs AI. I think this i also a fallacy that Tesla likes to sell. In the third quarter of 2022, Tesla claimed that there was one crash for every 6.26 million miles driven using Autopilot vs the U.S. baseline of one crash for every 652,000 miles. AuToPiLoT Is sO MuCh sAfEr!!!

These numbers are apples to oranges.

NY Times dove into these last month - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/magazine/tesla-autopilot-self-driving-elon-musk.html

Quote

Crashes, however, are far more likely on surface streets than on the highway: One study from the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation showed that crashes were five times as common on local roads as on turnpikes. When comparing Autopilot numbers to highway numbers, Tesla’s advantage drops significantly.

Tesla’s safety claims look even shakier when you try to control for the age of the car and the age of the driver. Most Tesla owners are middle-aged or older, which eliminates one risky pool of drivers: teenagers. And simply having a new car decreases your chance of an accident significantly.

So yeah, is Autopilot so much safer than humans? In a like to like comparison, not so much.

[NoName 16,364]

5 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I’ve heard the “Tesla collects so much more data for self-driving cars!” pitch a bunch over the years.  Initially, I supposed it must be true, because I don’t just assume people are straight up lying to me.  But after the last few years of actually paying attention to Elon and Tesla, I would in fact now just assume it’s a bald faced lie.  

How does Tesla have more data than the legacy manufacturers who have sold way more cars than Tesla since forever?  What kind of “data”?  How specifically is that giving them a unique advantage?

I’m genuinely curious for an explanation that isn’t vague and conclusory.  I’m admittedly ignorant on the subject, but “because data!” sounds like something an SBF type con man would say.  

i think they absolutely do collect a metric ton of data - to be fair, they have been collecting data since 2016 - but the second paragraph is what is correct/important.

they are collecting data using cameras and ultrasonic sensors. so they have a ton of that - but basically everyone else in the space has moved on to a multifaceted system that uses lidar + radar + cameras + sensors. so will all that they have collected for cameras get them to Level 5? people way way way smarter than me think no.

[Gene Parmesan 4,008]

I don't know when the cyber truck will ever come to fruition, or what it will cost, but I would buy it or pretty much anything over a lightning if it's affordable.  Because right now an XLT trim level lightning with extended range is an 80k truck, and XLT is not a premium trim.