Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[Captain Ron 12876]

52 minutes ago, texasdago said:

I swear, you can go down a rabbithole of absolute loons on Twitter.  People spouting the weirdest stuff and you'll see they have 1,000 followers.  Not weird, "Joe Biden blah blah" stuff but weird conspiracy theories on skull shapes and how people are demons etc.  Super weird.

Yeah. What’s worse is that they are popping up on my feed. The blue checks make them easy blocks.

I’m also getting a lot of “look at my dev stack” bros too. Not the only one complaining about that. What’s up with that?

[cactusflinthead 27598]

1 minute ago, Captain Ron said:

The blue checks make them easy blocks

Put the idiots at the top of the replies and they pay for the privilege to be there AND it costs Elmo more?

It has been a fun week for me.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

2 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

 

This is such a ridiculous lie that I can't fathom what his thoughts are, even though I am an EXPERT at stupid thoughts.

[Bama Chick 28596]

And to add to the fun, apparently Elon has said that maintaining block lists is expensive for Twitter.

So people aren’t just throttling his cult’s reach, they’re costing him money.

[Chooky 13307]

[SydneyCarton 48082]

For a motherfucker who believes he has a strong meme game, I've never seen a dope so incapable of understanding how the Streisand effect works. 

[Chooky 13307]

Elon thinks it's trolling to give a celebrity a check mark so people will think they're associated with him. 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

15 hours ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

I'm jaded. That is such a lob ball that it makes me wonder if both accounts are the same person. 

If you take a look at her timeline that's a lot of maga to retweet to have as a spare one to dunk on for likes.

Here's a sample retweet that fits here. 

She's got all the extra maga posters. Posobiec, Comer, and the list goes on!

Back later. It's a target rich environment for blockage.

[Guadaloopy 10964]

2 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

At ~$47k, the automaker’s Model Y SUV — the bestselling EV of 2022 — now costs $759 less than the average US vehicle

The “coach-ification” of the brand is almost complete. Good, good.

This comment makes zero sense.  The stated mission of Tesla has always been to "accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy."  The point was never to create a luxury brand.  The luxury angle was a gimmick to gain market share at a higher price point so that the company could generate revenue to fund investment in infrastructure and R&D that would lead to the mass-production of lower cost vehicles.  The point has always been to reduce the price of their vehicles to encourage mass adoption of the technology. 

[Fastbreak 3985]

The point was to make money. Lots of money. Elon gives no fucks about EVs.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

And to add to the fun, apparently Elon has said that maintaining block lists is expensive for Twitter.

So people aren’t just throttling his cult’s reach, they’re costing him money.

There's just no way this is true. Like I said above, I can't fathom the purpose of lying about something like that.

[HamsterHookah 112]

13 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

This comment makes zero sense.  The stated mission of Tesla has always been to "accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy."  The point was never to create a luxury brand.  The luxury angle was a gimmick to gain market share at a higher price point so that the company could generate revenue to fund investment in infrastructure and R&D that would lead to the mass-production of lower cost vehicles.  The point has always been to reduce the price of their vehicles to encourage mass adoption of the technology. 

Okay, great. So you are saying "Mission Accomplished"?

I'm saying that, regardless of what was cooked up by the CMO in the board room, up until about probably 2 or 3 years ago, Tesla as a brand and vehicle was unquestionably a luxury brand with an air of exclusivity that said something about the early adopter/early majority to the world. It gave a quick shorthand of what this person was about or valued (e.g. sustainability, tech-savvy, hip and fashionable, upper middle class or higher, etc.).

It has since been on a rapid decline to where we see it now as a lower priced, questionably designed/produced vehicle for late majority and laggards, if you will again harken back to your business education on the stages of Diffusion of Adoption Theory. 

So, yay! Tesla as a brand has become as aspirational and cool and as desirable as a premium packaged Toyota Camry! That DEFINITELY justifies the market cap and value versus automobile peers!

Edited April 26, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[HamsterHookah 112]

And before you say that brand and appearances/image and luxury don't matter, we live in a world where the richest man in the world is so because he found a way to convince billions of people that a brown bag with an L and V on it was a must have if you want to be considered valuable and pretty and unique.

[Guadaloopy 10964]

4 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

So, yay! Tesla as a brand has become aspirational and cool as a Toyota Camry!

Yeah... it's a real dig to equate Tesla vehicles to the top selling sedan in the US. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

Just now, Guadaloopy said:

Yeah... it's a real dig to equate Tesla vehicles to the top selling sedan in the US. 

As a brand. What part of this are you not understanding? Especially when real luxury brands are going to be (if they haven't already) introducing their EV's.

[Guadaloopy 10964]

3 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

And before you say that brand and appearances/image and luxury don't matter, we live in a world where the richest man in the world is so because he found a way to convince billions of people that a brown bag with an L and V on it was a must have if you want to be considered valuable and pretty and unique.

I mean, yeah... luxury is is one tack you can take.  But there are many other ways to make a buck... or a few hundred billion.

[Guadaloopy 10964]

1 minute ago, HamsterHookah said:

As a brand. What part of this are you not understanding? Especially when real luxury brands are going to be (if they haven't already) introducing their EV's.

Tesla's brand has always been technology, not luxury.  That hasn't changed.  

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, Guadaloopy said:

I mean, yeah... luxury is is one tack you can take.  But there are many other ways to make a buck... or a few hundred billion.

The whole of my point is that if Tesla's goal is to become a mid-market brand and commodity vehicle and compete and be the new Toyota Camry, then their stock price is not going to be justified. The company's valuation and financial foundation it's been living on the last 10 years will not stand. 

Good for them if that's what they want to become and I won't judge and congrats on just now getting a model 3 and I'm sorry for any offense.

[C-Man 27221]

Hard to believe we’ve still got Elon/Tesla stans on this board.

[atomheartbevo 89656]

8 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Yeah... it's a real dig to equate Tesla vehicles to the top selling sedan in the US. 

To be fair, twitter is not full of photos of mismatched doors, etc. from Toyotas.

[HamsterHookah 112]

Just now, C-Man said:

Hard to believe we’ve still got Elon/Tesla stans on this board.

Even with the fall, bump and then fall of Tesla's stock, they are still at 2.6x market cap of Toyota. It's unsustainable as the brand, pricing, and margins get eroded and competition catches up. 

[atomheartbevo 89656]

16 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

There's just no way this is true. Like I said above, I can't fathom the purpose of lying about something like that.

I can.  He had some question about why something was happening, and some engineer who was tired of his shit told him that the reason was that people blocking other people was straining the servers.

Musk is the pointy-haired boss.

[Guadaloopy 10964]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

To be fair, twitter is not full of photos of mismatched doors, etc. from Toyotas.

Quality has been a challenge.  No arguing that.  But moving production from 100 to 1.3 million per year in less than 15 years comes with growing pains.  

[Clintonaldo 2574]

Besides that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

[Guadaloopy 10964]

1 minute ago, Clintonaldo said:

Besides that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Quality issues get fixed and a vast majority of owners are very happy with their purchase despite dealing with some inconvenience at the outset.  I think Tesla's brand loyalty (at or near top of the industry) speaks to that.    

[Clintonaldo 2574]

Just now, Guadaloopy said:

Quality issues get fixed and a vast majority of owners are very happy with their purchase despite dealing with some inconvenience at the outset.  I think Tesla's brand loyalty (at or near top of the industry) speaks to that.    

The brand loyalty is fading because he cannot shut his mouth trying to impress people that would never buy a Tesla. 

[Guadaloopy 10964]

25 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Hard to believe we’ve still got Elon/Tesla stans on this board.

Not an Elon stan by any means, but to pretend that Tesla is anything but a massively successful company is disingenuous. 

[Guadaloopy 10964]

Just now, Clintonaldo said:

The brand loyalty is fading because he cannot shut his mouth trying to impress people that would never buy a Tesla. 

He annoys the shit out of me, but I fucking love my car.  And I've never loved any car.

[HamsterHookah 112]

14 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

He annoys the shit out of me, but I fucking love my car.  And I've never loved any car.

[Guadaloopy 10964]

8 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

We get it.  You're short Tesla.  

Me... I don't give a shit about their market cap or EPS.  Everything I've seen from the company is consistent with its stated mission.  If they make a few bucks along the way, then good for them.

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, Guadaloopy said:

We get it.  You're short Tesla.  

Me... I don't give a shit about their market cap or EPS.  Everything I've seen from the company is consistent with its stated mission.  If they make a few bucks along the way, then good for them.

Fair enough. I'll lay off.

[HamsterHookah 112]

As a comparison to Elon running Tesla as a modern tech company versus a legacy/union auto company:

Quote

Stat: 18.5%. That’s how much GM’s profits fell in the first quarter. The automaker took a $900 million hit in severance and other costs when it cut 5,000 jobs earlier this year.

I have a friend retiring this year after 29 years at Toyota. A mutual who works at GM said, "just wait until your 30th year and they have to buy you out" to which the response was, "Toyota isn't unionized like that, so it doesn't matter."

Musk running Tesla like a modern tech company (anti-union, capitalistic/meritocratic) means there isn't a ton of bloat to carry on the balance sheet, I guess, which helps. Even my Toyota friend gets healthcare for life in retirement, among other pension/retirement benefits.

I have another friend who works at Peterbilt who is in a union and gets paid more than most people posting on this thread after 25 years, and he acknowledges he's overpaid as he turns about 12 screws, on anywhere from 60-70 units a day. It's kind of a grift, it seems.

Edited April 26, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Captain Ron 12876]

3 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Quality issues get fixed and a vast majority of owners are very happy with their purchase despite dealing with some inconvenience at the outset.  I think Tesla's brand loyalty (at or near top of the industry) speaks to that.    

Given how much Musk fanbois will lap up anything that guy puts out not really. I mean seriously, you have guys all over social media that replace their teslas yearly.

[Captain Ron 12876]

Lol

 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

When the model 3 came out, wasn't the goal to make it affordable after the subsidies? Even as far back as 2006 according to Wikipedia, he said the model 3 was planned to be affordable to most people. It really doesn't seem like their long term plans were to remain a luxury car maker, at least according to public statements. We are simply witnessing the transition. That said, Tesla is insanely over valued and Elon has publicly gone off the deep end.

[Chopper 17230]

9 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

When the model 3 came out, wasn't the goal to make it affordable after the subsidies? Even as far back as 2006 according to Wikipedia, he said the model 3 was planned to be affordable to most people. It really doesn't seem like their long term plans were to remain a luxury car maker, at least according to public statements. We are simply witnessing the transition. That said, Tesla is insanely over valued and Elon has publicly gone off the deep end.

That wasn't the plan. The plan was/is a new model that costs sub $30k.

 

That's from this article dated 4/16/23 but I'm willing to guess we've been hearing from Mosk about such a car almost as long as 'auto pilot.'

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/16/the-25000-ev-is-coming-with-big-implications-for-car-buyers.html

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13584]

13 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Lol

 

Wait. Really?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/27/elon-musks-statements-could-be-deepfakes-tesla-defence-lawyers-tell-court

[Captain Ron 12876]

Deep fakes? That's what you're going with Elon?

 

Seriously, he has been saying this for years. For him to claim these are deep fakes it is joke. Every clip in their is either watermarked from a news org, so they can go to them or they are from public talks that were clearly recorded and source video can be obtained.

Frankly, I would put the onus on Elon to prove those are deepfakes.

[Chopper 17230]

It's so weird (/s) how brands differentiate their luxury vehicles from their $30k stock. I feel like there must be a reason for it. Hmmm.

Hyundai sells their high-end line as Genesis.

Toyota has Lexus.

Honda has Acura.

GM has Cadillac.Tesla has...

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Chopper

[SydneyCarton 48082]

29 minutes ago, Chopper said:

It's so weird (/s) how brands differentiate their luxury vehicles from their $30k stock. I feel like there must be a reason for it. Hmmm.

Hyundai sells their high-end line as Genesis.

Toyota has Lexus.

Honda has Acura.

GM has Cadillac.Tesla has...

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Nissan has Infinity. 

Ford has Lincoln

VW has Audi and Bentley and Bugati and Lambo and Porsche.

Just to keep it going. 






 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26450]

17 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

Musk running Tesla like a modern tech company (anti-union, capitalistic/meritocratic) means there isn't a ton of bloat to carry on the balance sheet, I guess, which helps. Even my Toyota friend gets healthcare for life in retirement, among other pension/retirement benefits.

I have another friend who works at Peterbilt who is in a union and gets paid more than most people posting on this thread after 25 years, and he acknowledges he's overpaid as he turns about 12 screws, on anywhere from 60-70 units a day. It's kind of a grift, it seems.

This is an aside, and no offense intended, but it's astonishing how complicit we've become in the demise of the middle class and the reduced share of productivity it receives in exchange for what it creates. 
Imagine thinking of the salary and benefits earned over a lifetime of loyal service as a "grift". Imagine being surprised that your friend from Toyota actually gets to keep  the healthcare and pension he was offered and accepted as the price Toyota offered him for his labor. Imagine thinking it was perfectly natural for a legal fiction comprised of capital to negotiate the purchase of labor, but unnatural and unfair for a legal fiction comprised of workers to do the same thing. these are thoughts that were unthinkable during the pinnacle of American Greatness. 
 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[HamsterHookah 112]

13 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is an aside, and no offense intended, but it's astonishing how complicit we've become in the demise of the middle class and the reduced share of productivity it receives in exchange for what it creates. 
Imagine thinking of the salary and benefits earned over a lifetime of loyal service as a "grift". Imagine being surprised that your friend from Toyota actually gets to keep  the healthcare and pension he was offered and accepted as the price Toyota offered him for his labor. Imagine thinking it was perfectly natural for a legal fiction comprised of capital to negotiate the purchase of labor, but unnatural and unfair for a legal fiction comprised of workers to do the same thing. these are thoughts that were unthinkable during the pinnacle of American Greatness. 
 

I like your post and whole-heartedly agree from an idealistic and values-driven place. I was commenting on the realities of share-holder (or late stage, as the zoomers call it) capitalism.

And regardless, getting to a place where you are turning a screw driver 100 times a day for a wage that a doctor makes, is both awesome and horrible, depending on which side of the business you are sitting on.

[royiv 9300]

14 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I like your post and whole-heartedly agree from an idealistic and values-driven place. I was commenting on the realities of share-holder (or late stage, as the zoomers call it) capitalism.

And regardless, getting to a place where you are turning a screw driver 100 times a day for a wage that a doctor makes, is both awesome and horrible, depending on which side of the business you are sitting on.

Seems like it can be mutually beneficial if there is shareholder return and labor is being paid a good wage with good benefits. It's also people are more productive and more loyal when they are compensated fairly. In turn increasing efficiency and decreasing the high cost of employee turnover.

[HamsterHookah 112]

3 minutes ago, royiv said:

Seems like it can be mutually beneficial if there is shareholder return and labor is being paid a good wage with good benefits. It's also people are more productive and more loyal when they are compensated fairly. In turn increasing efficiency and decreasing the high cost of employee turnover.

Agreed.

I'm talking about the point past the mutual beneficial line on the bell curve when the employee is clearly optimizing at the expense of the company, shareholders, the customers, etc.

When you have someone turning a screwdriver (Peterbilt example) 60-100 times a day and making $250k+ all-in with benefits, etc. There is barely even salvage value at that point.

It would be like continuing to pay Zeke Elliot until he wants to retire and he just runs the ball 15 times for 20 yards every game but you are paying a premium.

Edited April 27, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Bozo_Casanova 26450]

20 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I like your post and whole-heartedly agree from an idealistic and values-driven place. I was commenting on the realities of share-holder (or late stage, as the zoomers call it) capitalism.

And regardless, getting to a place where you are turning a screw driver 100 times a day for a wage that a doctor makes, is both awesome and horrible, depending on which side of the business you are sitting on.

Thanks for taking my comment in good faith and I hear you. I guess my point of view is that if you show me a bad union I'll show you bad management. Or put another way, show me a bad deal and I'll show you a bad buyer. 

If the senior screwdriver tech is making too much from the point of view of the shareholder as a constituent of the buyer, then at least one of the following things is true
1) The management team you pay to manage your company is willing to pay the screwdriver tech that much, and the work is by definition worth it to the only buyer that matters
2) Management has limited visibility to the value of the work - i.e. they don't really know who is making what, or 
3) Management negotiates with the seller (the collective bargaining entity) on the value of the labor pool and lets the constituent members of the bargaining entity unilaterally decide how to place a value on the work itself, in this case by seniority, disconnected from productivity. 

1 is fine, 2 is mismanagement via mismeasurement, 3 is mismanagement via misalignment.  
 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[HamsterHookah 112]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Thanks for taking my comment in good faith and I hear you. I guess my point of view is that if you show me a bad union I'll show you bad management. Or put another way, show me a bad deal and I'll show you a bad buyer. 

If the senior screwdriver tech is making too much from the point of view of the shareholder as a constituent of the buyer, then at least one of the following things is true
1) The buyer/The management team you pay to manage your company is willing to pay the screwdriver tech that much, and the work is by definition worth it to the only buyer that matters
2) Management has limited visibility to the value of the work - i.e. they don't really know who is making what, or 
3) Management negotiates with the seller (the collective bargaining entity) on the value of the labor pool and lets the constituent members of the bargaining entity unilaterally decide how to place a value on the work itself, in this case by seniority. 

1 is fine, 2 is mismanagement via mismeasurement, 3 is mismanagement via misalignment.  
 

That all sounds super reasonable to me and so what I'm hearing is maybe this situation isn't long for the world, as all bad deals wont.

This jibes with his sense that a) it's a gravy train and b) he feels guilty about it (but not *that* guilty as he enjoys the paychecks) and c) it's not going to last forever

All this to say, I am a huge champion and fan and proponent of the American middle class. I love them, as they are me. I want to maximize the middle class and the opportunities therein. I just bend towards the white collar middle class/middle management versus the blue collar, though in reality, they are the same. Turning a screw driver 100 times is really no different than copy and pasting from a spreadsheet 100 times, right?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

The point was to make money. Lots of money. Elon gives no fucks about EVs.

I still don’t understand folks buying Teslas. They are ugly as fuck. And the least ugly one is just so average looking.

[Bozo_Casanova 26450]

7 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I still don’t understand folks buying Teslas. They are ugly as fuck. And the least ugly one is just so average looking.

I understand why people buy the model S. It's one of a kind offering. It's a mass-affluent supercar with daily driver utility. There's nothing else in that category.  
 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I understand why people buy the model S. It's one of a kind offering. It's a mass-affluent supercar with daily driver utility. There's nothing else in that category.  
 

Visually it’s so, as the kids say, mid. Performance wise…ok, sure. But when I see a Tesla, I automatically assume they are a massive douche.

[Bozo_Casanova 26450]

3 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Visually it’s so, as the kids say, mid. Performance wise…ok, sure. But when I see a Tesla, I automatically assume they are a massive douche.

All fair.