Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[Neonmoon 38129]

18 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Is that a lot?

[Neonmoon 38129]

Elon is having a day

https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/us-agency-will-not-reinstate-900-mln-subsidy-spacex-starlink-unit-2023-12-13/

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-lose-7500-consumer-tax-credits-some-model-3-vehicles-2023-12-13/

 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8717]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

What percentage is that of all Tesla cars in the US market?

[Neonmoon 38129]

9 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

What percentage is that of all Tesla cars in the US market?

All of them

Tesla is pushing software updates to over 2 million vehicles in the US — or almost every Model S, Y, X, and 3 ever sold in the country — to address a defect in the company’s Autopilot system. On Monday, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a recall notice for the vehicles following a two-year investigation into a series of collisions that occurred involving Tesla vehicles using Autopilot, which comes as standard on every new Tesla.

• 2012–2023 Model S
• 2016–2023 Model X
• 2017–2023 Model 3
• 2020–2023 Model Y

Despite being identified as a “product recall” by NHTSA, Tesla aims to fix impacted vehicles with an over-the-air software update, which it said will roll out “on or shortly after” December 12th. The update, identified as software version 2023.44.30, is being issued at no cost to customers and involves adding additional controls and alerts to prompt drivers to be in full control of the car when Autosteer is enabled. The update also limits Autosteer use “when conditions are not met for engagement,” preventing the feature from being used entirely in some case

 

 

[High Plains Drifter 11049]

20 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Elon is having a day

https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/us-agency-will-not-reinstate-900-mln-subsidy-spacex-starlink-unit-2023-12-13/

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-lose-7500-consumer-tax-credits-some-model-3-vehicles-2023-12-13/

 

 

 

Elmo told the advertisers on twiiter to go fuck themselves, and I did nothing because I was not an advertiser on twitter.

Elmo told the FCC to go fuck itself, and I did nothing because I was not part of the FCC.

Elmo told the IRS to go fuck itself, and I did nothing because I was not part of the IRS.

And then Elmo told me to fuck myself, and nobody did anything because who gives a fuck what Elmo says?

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

This is like the tragic ending version of Wayne's World. I bet Grimes is all preggers with Zuckerberg twins now. 

[hornian 5219]

18 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

All of them

Tesla is pushing software updates to over 2 million vehicles in the US — or almost every Model S, Y, X, and 3 ever sold in the country — to address a defect in the company’s Autopilot system. On Monday, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a recall notice for the vehicles following a two-year investigation into a series of collisions that occurred involving Tesla vehicles using Autopilot, which comes as standard on every new Tesla.

• 2012–2023 Model S
• 2016–2023 Model X
• 2017–2023 Model 3
• 2020–2023 Model Y

Despite being identified as a “product recall” by NHTSA, Tesla aims to fix impacted vehicles with an over-the-air software update, which it said will roll out “on or shortly after” December 12th. The update, identified as software version 2023.44.30, is being issued at no cost to customers and involves adding additional controls and alerts to prompt drivers to be in full control of the car when Autosteer is enabled. The update also limits Autosteer use “when conditions are not met for engagement,” preventing the feature from being used entirely in some case

 

 

My wife had a model Y (it was totaled when some jackass rear-ended her - kept her and the kids safe, so I'm happy with the way it performed in that accident), and I have a Rivian. Both have "auto-steer" capabilities (Rivian calls it Highway Assist) that are pretty comparable, having driven both. But the big difference is that Tesla let you use it anywhere pretty much - neighborhoods, city streets, etc., whereas Rivian's is locked an only available on controlled access highways with certain limitations (they have to have been mapped by Rivian). It seems like a no-brainer to limit it to situations that it's intended for, and very low hanging fruit. 

So of course Tesla is not going to do that, I'm sure it will just be "our cameras are blinded by the sun, so you can't use auto-steer", not "you're driving in a neighborhood, you can't use auto-steer."

 

[HenryJames 66049]

11 minutes ago, hornian said:

when some jackass rear-ended her

[Thetexashammer 1062]

23 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I bet you can do a business real good.

I'm short tesla.

[MissingInAction 25069]

9 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

I'm short tesla.

Today's the day.

[C-Man 27223]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Elon is having a day

https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/us-agency-will-not-reinstate-900-mln-subsidy-spacex-starlink-unit-2023-12-13/

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-lose-7500-consumer-tax-credits-some-model-3-vehicles-2023-12-13/

 

 

Fuck this cocksmoker. Burn, motherfucker, burn.

[MissingInAction 25069]

I did nazi that coming.

[NoName 16351]

https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/13/24000170/x-outage-link-error-message-broken

X outage breaks all outgoing links, again

Quote

 

As if publishers and users didn’t have enough reasons to reconsider their connections to the platform formerly known as Twitter, all outgoing links from X are currently broken. A problem with the URL redirect that captures activity before sending users on their way is currently leading people to a simple error page saying, “This page is down. I scream. You scream. We all scream... for us to fix this page. We’ll stop making jokes and get things up and running soon.”

If this sounds familiar, it’s because something similar happened in March, taking down links and images across timelines for around an hour. Twitter blamed that on an “internal change that had some unintended consequences” before Platformer reported the bug occurred because of a mistake by the site’s single remaining site reliability engineer, who was operating solo after Elon Musk instituted massive layoffs.

There’s no word yet on what may be the cause of this outage, but for now, people who use X will have to choose between staying there or going somewhere else for their information.

 

 

[Homercles 10205]

On 12/12/2023 at 10:15 AM, atomheartbevo said:

 

Everytime I see a pic of that thing I hear Arnold

[C-Man 27223]

Um, has this been discussed?

 

[956 Worldwide 34712]

New pearl of wisdom just dropped.

 

[Chopper 17235]

14 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

New pearl of wisdom just dropped.

And another. Instead of "eyeroll...complete mistatement of facts," this one is "eyeroll...leaps to stupid conclusion." AND so rich.

 

[Firemans4Horn 18048]

12 minutes ago, Chopper said:

And another. Instead of "eyeroll...complete mistatement of facts," this one is "eyeroll...leaps to stupid conclusion." AND so rich.

 

Christoper Stanley reads like someone using Grok to write “act as an evil hiring director at a horrible late stage tech firm that thinks kids today are getting soft”

 

here’s ChatGPT’s version of Christopher Stanley

Quote

Alright, listen up, you bunch of softies! This ain't your playground for "full stack views" or coddling your delicate coding sensibilities. We're in the big leagues, where low-level systems separate the tech giants from the kiddie coders. If you're allergic to diving deep into the guts of our machines, you might as well pack up your cozy laptops and head back to coding kindergarten. We're not here to babysit; we want engineers with a backbone, not the faint-hearted who can't stomach the real challenges of late-stage tech warfare. Step up or step out – we don't have time for the weak links.

 

[Goredho 17405]

On 7/4/2023 at 12:43 PM, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Also less mass shootings. I have a wild idea to have government subsidized brothels. The world is a better place if everybody gets laid.

[F250 28773]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

New pearl of wisdom just dropped.

 

I see that Elon is skilled in the arts of war and military tactics. He should visit Ukraine and offer his advice.

[956 Worldwide 34712]

1 hour ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Christoper Stanley reads like someone using Grok to write “act as an evil hiring director at a horrible late stage tech firm that thinks kids today are getting soft”

 

here’s ChatGPT’s version of Christopher Stanley

 

I used to think military jargon creep was the COVID of the workplace. But tech bro jargon creep has to be monkey pox. 

[atomheartbevo 89660]

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

And another. Instead of "eyeroll...complete mistatement of facts," this one is "eyeroll...leaps to stupid conclusion." AND so rich.

I love this bit:

Quote

I screen for individuals who not only possess a 'full stack' view, encompassing networking, low-level systems understanding and software development skills, but also an obsessive drive to work hard. This tireless dedication,

That's code for: Working 16-hour days and weekends.  

Great if you're an incel.  

Not so great if you have a life, have a family, have friends outside of work, like to get outdoors, like to do things away from work, and basically just be a normal person.

Lest we forget, Esther Crawford had an obsessive drive to work hard and tireless dedication, to the point she slept in her office rather than go home to her husband and young children.

What did that earn her?  She was still fired, and she only found out when she realized she was locked out of the twitter systems. Not even the fucking common courtesy of a phone call from her boss.

Edited December 14, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[Chopper 17235]

Note to anyone interviewing for a job at spacex, tesla, or x: Repeat over and over how much you're obsessed with working hard no matter what the mission is, and that your dream job would be working for a petty, lame tyrant who doesn't know shit, does hard drugs, and who will one day likely disrespect your work and that of your team precisely because he doesn't know anything, technical or human.

 

[Captain Ron 12876]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

Note to anyone interviewing for a job at spacex, tesla, or x: Repeat over and over how much you're obsessed with working hard no matter what the mission is, and that your dream job would be working for a petty, lame tyrant who doesn't know shit, does hard drugs, and who will one day likely disrespect your work and that of your team precisely because he doesn't know anything, technical or human.

 

For the more rational, just remember: companies don’t love you, you may love your job, love your work and be the model employee. And your company in a bad spot might still let you go. Why? Because in the end they don’t give a shit. 

[atomheartbevo 89660]

6 hours ago, C-Man said:

Um, has this been discussed?

 

You know he would try and have his "Grok" AI doing some of the heavy lifting, both to cut costs, but also because he thinks this is where things are headed.  And laughing at the people who say he'd run it like a non-profit.

[Neonmoon 38129]

Lol

[NoName 16351]

yeah it looks worse than the renders lol

 

[atomheartbevo 89660]

 

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-neuralink-dealbook-comments-sec/

Quote

For the third time this year, the US Securities and Exchange Commission is being urged to investigate allegations of whether Elon Musk made misleading claims to investors about the deaths of primates used for research by Neuralink, his brain-chip startup.

The latest claims center around his recent statements at the New York Times DealBook Summit that primates who died after implant surgeries were selected for experimentation because they were already close to death. In a letter sent to federal regulators today, an animal rights advocacy and research group claims that Musk’s statements are inaccurate and amount to “possible securities fraud.”

This marks the third letter to the SEC since late September requesting an investigation into Musk’s comments about Neuralink’s test subjects. Records related to Neuralink’s research reviewed by WIRED paint a complicated picture of the health of the monkeys used to develop the company’s brain-chip implants, which will soon be used in human trials.

The most recent letter, written by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, centers on an interview between Musk and Times financial columnist Andrew Ross Sorkin on November 29. Asked to respond to reports of the gruesome deaths that occurred during early Neuralink experiments at UC Davis, Musk told the audience that the monkeys who endured experimental surgeries were already terminal. “It’s the kind of thing which we could only put in a monkey that’s about to die,” he said, referring to his experimental chip, adding, “It didn’t die because of the Neuralink, it died because it had a terminal case of cancer or something like that.”

The Physicians Committee’s letter alleges that there is no proof that primates had fatal conditions before receiving implants. Citing veterinary records the organization obtained last year, the letter claims that Neuralink scientists performed experimental surgeries on previously healthy primates, some of which went on to suffer complications ranging from serious fungal infections to loosely implanted chips to bleeding or swelling in their brain.

Previously unreported medical examination records describe the overall physical well-being of the primates prior to undergoing Neuralink experiments. WIRED’s review of those records found that some primates underwent extensive “pre-project” health examinations at UC Davis before being approved for the Neuralink studies, which began at the university’s facilities in 2017 and concluded in 2020. According to experts, while the paperwork indicates that those animals were to eventually undergo terminal surgeries—meaning they would be euthanized after experimental procedures—their medical examinations did not suggest that they had serious health conditions that could be considered terminal.

 

[Captain Ron 12876]

6 hours ago, NoName said:

yeah it looks worse than the renders lol

 

Elon Musk, the epitome of Over promise, Under deliver.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/15/elon-musk-promises/

Edited December 14, 2023 by Captain Ron

[MissingInAction 25069]

What a fat fucking loser.

[Brisketexan 105130]

1 minute ago, Captain Ron said:

Elon Musk, the epitome of Over promise, Under deliver.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/15/elon-musk-promises/

Have we even talked about how fucking stupid the name is?  "Cyber truck?"  Cyber?  Really?

"Cyber: relating to or characteristic of the culture of computers, information technology, and virtual reality."

For fuck's sake, Elon's name choice is the equivalent of this level of thinking:

 

[C-Man 27223]

Go figure -- more lies on top of lies on top of lies. Somewhere in his "go fuck yourself" interview he was asked about the monkeys who died during Neuralink trials. Musk said the monkeys they did these experiments on -- and later died -- died due to having terminal diseases such as cancer and whatever else. They didn't die because of the Neuralink. Well, it appears that might not necessarily be the case.

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-neuralink-dealbook-comments-sec/

Quote

For the third time this year, the US Securities and Exchange Commission is being urged to investigate allegations of whether Elon Musk made misleading claims to investors about the deaths of primates used for research by Neuralink, his brain-chip startup.

The latest claims center around his recent statements at the New York Times DealBook Summit that primates who died after implant surgeries were selected for experimentation because they were already close to death. In a letter sent to federal regulators today, an animal rights advocacy and research group claims that Musk’s statements are inaccurate and amount to “possible securities fraud.”

This marks the third letter to the SEC since late September requesting an investigation into Musk’s comments about Neuralink’s test subjects. Records related to Neuralink’s research reviewed by WIRED paint a complicated picture of the health of the monkeys used to develop the company’s brain-chip implants, which will soon be used in human trials.

The most recent letter, written by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, centers on an interview between Musk and Times financial columnist Andrew Ross Sorkin on November 29. Asked to respond to reports of the gruesome deaths that occurred during early Neuralink experiments at UC Davis, Musk told the audience that the monkeys who endured experimental surgeries were already terminal. “It’s the kind of thing which we could only put in a monkey that’s about to die,” he said, referring to his experimental chip, adding, “It didn’t die because of the Neuralink, it died because it had a terminal case of cancer or something like that.”

The Physicians Committee’s letter alleges that there is no proof that primates had fatal conditions before receiving implants. Citing veterinary records the organization obtained last year, the letter claims that Neuralink scientists performed experimental surgeries on previously healthy primates, some of which went on to suffer complications ranging from serious fungal infections to loosely implanted chips to bleeding or swelling in their brain.

Previously unreported medical examination records describe the overall physical well-being of the primates prior to undergoing Neuralink experiments. WIRED’s review of those records found that some primates underwent extensive “pre-project” health examinations at UC Davis before being approved for the Neuralink studies, which began at the university’s facilities in 2017 and concluded in 2020. According to experts, while the paperwork indicates that those animals were to eventually undergo terminal surgeries—meaning they would be euthanized after experimental procedures—their medical examinations did not suggest that they had serious health conditions that could be considered terminal.

On October 19, 2018, for instance, veterinarians at UC Davis performed a pre-project examination of a female macaque called “Animal 11.” At the time, Davis' staff examined her spleen, liver, lymph nodes, eyes, and ears. A cardiologist also performed an echocardiogram to make sure there was no evidence of underlying heart conditions common in macaques. After her examinations, staff only noted one abnormality: She was missing digits on both hands and her right foot.

In December that year, Neuralink employees drilled into her skull and implanted electrodes in her brain in an experimental surgery. She was euthanized a few months later after the implants had become infected.

According to a doctor who spent years working as a clinical veterinarian at a primate breeding and research facility, if Animal 11 had any kind of terminal health condition as Musk claims, they “absolutely” should have shown up in the physical examinations that Davis staff performed. However, the doctor, who requested anonymity citing “industry-wide retaliation,” speculated that while they did not see any evidence of a terminal health condition prior to an experimental surgery, it’s possible that the primate could have had behavioral or mental health issues causing the animal to be considered “terminal.”

“If we can’t control an animal’s stress through environment and medication, then that’s a reason for humane euthanasia,” the doctor says, indicating that Animal’s 11 missing fingers and toes could be a sign of this. To help cope with the stress of life in a lab, researchers try to pair primates with a companion. “In some cases,” the doctor adds, “one monkey sticks its finger through the grate, and their neighbor bites it off.”

Other pre-project veterinary records WIRED reviewed with the doctor reveal that Neuralink’s test primates suffered from stress, physical altercations, and other unspecified trauma before their terminal surgeries or euthanasia. For instance, the doctor observed that at least one primate was being treated with fluoxetine—generic Prozac—for depression. “But there's nowhere in the documents that explicitly states the animals would qualify for humane euthanasia due to stress,” they say.

At last month’s Dealbook Summit, Musk likened Neuralink facilities to a “monkey paradise.” A WIRED investigation published in October found that Neuralink primates survived for weeks after enduring experiments with names like “cranial heat dissipation study” or “electrode insertion survivability study.” The primates used in Neuralink experiments at UC Davis can live up to 40 years in captivity, yet most of the animals that Neuralink euthanized in its experiments had not yet reached adulthood.

In October 2018, a UC Davis veterinarian approved Animal 13 for use in a Neuralink experiment. She was six years old when she received her Neuralink implants. According to her pre-project physical exam and echocardiogram, Davis staff did not observe any medical abnormalities prior to her surgery, only noting that she had superficial scratches on her lips and minor lip trauma as part of a “suspect pair fight.”

Beginning in November 2018, Animal 13 was regularly sedated with ketamine and hooked up to scientific instruments for “neuro recordings.” After one of these sessions the following month, Davis staff observed that the skin near the implants felt warm to the touch, the records show.

Over the next three months, her implants became infected. She was euthanized in March 2019. Her autopsy notes “numerous bacterial cultures” and evidence of brain swelling.

A doctoral candidate who conducted research at Davis’ California National Primate Research Center (CNPRC) told WIRED in September that, in their view, “there’s no real indication that these animals were terminal, and in fact, their age suggests that they weren’t.” The doctoral candidate added that, without more information, there was “there’s no real way” they could be certain.

A “scope of work and budget” document between Neuralink and UC Davis reviewed by WIRED lends some legitimacy to Musk’s claims that certain animals may have been terminal prior to their surgeries. The document details the amounts that Neuralink was to pay for UC Davis labor, equipment, and primates at each phase of its experimentation at the university. “The first stage of this work will be to test and refine our implantable devices,” the document reads, describing these tests to be performed “ideally with culled animals.”

While the document goes on to describe the six adult rhesus macaques who were to undergo these “terminal procedures” during this phase as being “in robust health,” the doctor WIRED spoke to points out that the budget indicates that this group of monkeys was discounted “because they are animals that are considered terminal," they say.

However, the doctor explains that because animals 11 and 13 were meant to survive their initial implantation surgery, they were likely not part of this phase of Neuralink’s experimentation.

Neuralink did not respond to a request for comment for this article or any of our previous coverage of the experiments at Davis.

This week’s letter from the Physicians Committee marks the second time the organization has written to federal regulators asking for a securities fraud investigation into Musk’s comments about Neuralink’s monkeys. After Musk made similar statements about the Neuralink experiments in a post on his social networking app X (formerly Twitter), the organization wrote to the SEC alleging that the Neuralink CEO was deliberately misleading investors. Four members of the US House of Representatives have also asked the SEC to look into these claims of whether Musk committed securities fraud.

“When dealing with alleged animal welfare violations as egregious as those leveled against Musk, there needs to be greater urgency to hold him accountable,” US representative Earl Blumenauer told WIRED in a statement last month.

Last week, the SEC told Blumenauer that it could not confirm or deny whether it is investigating Musk's comments.

“Musk has continued to make misleading and false claims about experiments conducted on monkeys by Neuralink,” the Physicians Committee letter alleges. “We urge the SEC to investigate this matter and penalize Neuralink and Musk appropriately.”

I would fucking love for Elon to be the first human to have one of these things planted in his brain.

[chainsaw 9867]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Go figure -- more lies on top of lies on top of lies. Somewhere in his "go fuck yourself" interview he was asked about the monkeys who died during Neuralink trials. Musk said the monkeys they did these experiments on -- and later died -- died due to having terminal diseases such as cancer and whatever else. They didn't die because of the Neuralink. Well, it appears that might not necessarily be the case.

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-neuralink-dealbook-comments-sec/

I would fucking love for Elon to be the first human to have one of these things planted in his brain.

Someone should tell him the libs would lose their minds if he tried it

[atomheartbevo 89660]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Have we even talked about how fucking stupid the name is?  "Cyber truck?"  Cyber?  Really?

"Cyber: relating to or characteristic of the culture of computers, information technology, and virtual reality."

I wouldn't read too deeply into it.  He probably first heard the term "cyber" back in the 80s when Gibson's Neuromancer came out (he seems like the type to read it in the early 90s and then never shut the fuck up about it), but in the 90s, "cybersex" was constantly being talked about....

And he named the Tesla cars so that they would spell "Sexy"

Models S/3/X/Y

 

[Brisketexan 105130]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

but in the 90s, "cybersex" was constantly being talked about....

Oh, I'm definitely familiar with that.  So....why didn't he just name it honestly, like the "jerk off to online porn model 3000" or something like that?  Would have more accurately appealed to the customer base, anyway.

[Covri 6249]

5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I wouldn't read too deeply into it.  He probably first heard the term "cyber" back in the 80s when Gibson's Neuromancer came out (he seems like the type to read it in the early 90s and then never shut the fuck up about it), but in the 90s, "cybersex" was constantly being talked about....

And he named the Tesla cars so that they would spell "Sexy"

Models S/3/X/Y

 

 

I did not pick up n that 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Covri

[Chopper 17235]

10 hours ago, Covri said:

I did not pick up n that 

An article maybe 10 months ago explained how the E prefix for automobile purposes was trademarked by, I believe, BMW (although I want to say Ford and I'm not a car person so perhaps someone else recalls).

 

['stache 21815]

The ad campaign should be “Wanna Cyber?”

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/elon-musk-told-bankers-they-wouldnt-lose-any-money-on-twitter-purchase/

 

Quote

Elon Musk privately told some of the bankers who lent him $13 billion to fund his leveraged buyout of Twitter that they would not lose any money on the deal, according to five people familiar with the matter.

The verbal guarantees were made by Musk to banks as a way to reassure the lenders as the value of the social media site, now rebranded as X, fell sharply after he completed the acquisition last year.

Despite the assurances, the seven banks that lent money to the billionaire for his buyout—Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, Barclays, MUFG, BNP Paribas, Mizuho and Société Générale—are facing serious losses on the debt if and when they eventually sell it.

 

Quote

The sources did not specify when Musk’s assurances were made, although one noted Musk had made them on several occasions. But the billionaire’s behavior, both in attempting to back out of the takeover in 2022 and more recently in alienating advertisers, has more broadly stymied the banks’ efforts to offload the debt since he engineered the takeover.

Large hedge funds and credit investors on Wall Street held conversations with the banks late last year, offering to buy the senior-most portion of the debt at roughly 65 cents on the dollar. But in recent interviews with the Financial Times, several said there was no price at which they would buy the bonds and loans, given their inability to gauge whether Linda Yaccarino, X’s chief executive, could turn the business around.

One multibillion-dollar firm that specializes in distressed debt called X’s debt “uninvestable.”

 

 

Spoiler

Selling the $12.5 billion of bonds and loans below 60 cents on the dollar—a price many investors believe the banks would be lucky to achieve in the current market—would imply losses before accounting for X’s interest payments of $4 billion or more, writedowns that have not yet been publicly reported by the syndicate of lenders, according to FT calculations. The debt is split between $6.5 billion of term loans, as well as $6 billion of senior and junior bonds and a $500 million revolver.

Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, Barclays, MUFG, BNP Paribas, Mizuho and Société Générale declined to comment. A spokesperson for X declined to comment. Musk did not return a request for comment.

The banks have held the debt on their balance sheets instead of selling at a steep loss in the hope that X’s performance will improve following a series of cost-cutting measures. Several people involved in the transaction noted that there was no plan to sell the debt imminently, with one saying there was no guarantee the banks would be able to offload the debt even in 2024.

The people involved in the deal cautioned that Musk’s guarantee was not based on any formal contract. One said they understood it as a boastful statement that the entrepreneur had never let his lenders down.

“I have never lost money for those who invest in me and I am not starting now,” he told Axios earlier this month, when asked about a separate fundraising push by his company X.ai Corp.

Some on Wall Street view Musk’s personal guarantees with skepticism, given that he tried to back out of his agreement to buy Twitter despite a watertight contract, before relenting.

Nevertheless, the guarantee from a man whose net worth Forbes pegs at about $243 billion has helped some of the bankers make the pitch to their internal committees that they can ascribe a higher price to the debt while they hold it on their balance sheets.

Morgan Stanley, the largest lender on the deal, in January disclosed $356 million in mark to market losses on corporate loans it planned to sell and loan hedges. Banks rarely report specific losses tied to an individual bond or loan, and often report write downs of multiple deals together.

Wall Street was saddled with the Twitter buyout loan at the same time they were holding a smattering of other hung bridge loans—deals they were forced to fund themselves after failing to raise cash in public bond and loan markets. The FT has previously reported on large losses tied to other hung loans at the time, including the buyouts of technology company Citrix and television rating provider Nielsen.

How the debt has been marked on bank balance sheets has been an open question for traders and investors across Wall Street, given how much X’s business has deteriorated since Musk bought the company.

Musk, already out of favor with marketers for loosening content moderation, last month lost more advertisers after endorsing an antisemitic post. In November he followed by telling brands that were boycotting the business over his actions to “go fuck” themselves, criticising Disney’s Bob Iger in particular.

According to a report last week from market intelligence firm Sensor Tower, in November 2023 total US ad spend among the top 100 advertisers on X was down nearly 45 percent compared with October 2022, prior to Musk’s takeover.

 

[C-Man 27223]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

An article maybe 10 months ago explained how the E prefix for automobile purposes was trademarked by, I believe, BMW (although I want to say Ford and I'm not a car person so perhaps someone else recalls).

 

Doesn't Mercedes have an "E" class of sedans?

[Gatorubet 30237]

Quote

According to a report last week from market intelligence firm Sensor Tower, in November 2023 total US ad spend among the top 100 advertisers on X was down nearly 45 percent compared with October 2022, prior to Musk’s takeover.

Revenue down 45% - is that bad?

More 5D South African chess?

[NoName 16351]

Just now, Gatorubet said:

Revenue down 45% - is that bad?

More 5D South African chess?

revenue ONLY down 45%?

- Elon

[Captain Ron 12876]

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

An article maybe 10 months ago explained how the E prefix for automobile purposes was trademarked by, I believe, BMW (although I want to say Ford and I'm not a car person so perhaps someone else recalls).

 

It's Ford. It's the name of their EV division. Model E

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2022/03/02/ford-model-e-electric-tesla-trademark/9339917002/

 

59 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Doesn't Mercedes have an "E" class of sedans?

Yes, but that's just the class, not the model, that is E350.

Ford owns "Model E" specifically. Musk only thinks in 'leet' speak, so his result is Model 3.

[Captain Ron 12876]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/elon-musk-told-bankers-they-wouldnt-lose-any-money-on-twitter-purchase/

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Selling the $12.5 billion of bonds and loans below 60 cents on the dollar—a price many investors believe the banks would be lucky to achieve in the current market—would imply losses before accounting for X’s interest payments of $4 billion or more, writedowns that have not yet been publicly reported by the syndicate of lenders, according to FT calculations. The debt is split between $6.5 billion of term loans, as well as $6 billion of senior and junior bonds and a $500 million revolver.

Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, Barclays, MUFG, BNP Paribas, Mizuho and Société Générale declined to comment. A spokesperson for X declined to comment. Musk did not return a request for comment.

The banks have held the debt on their balance sheets instead of selling at a steep loss in the hope that X’s performance will improve following a series of cost-cutting measures. Several people involved in the transaction noted that there was no plan to sell the debt imminently, with one saying there was no guarantee the banks would be able to offload the debt even in 2024.

The people involved in the deal cautioned that Musk’s guarantee was not based on any formal contract. One said they understood it as a boastful statement that the entrepreneur had never let his lenders down.

“I have never lost money for those who invest in me and I am not starting now,” he told Axios earlier this month, when asked about a separate fundraising push by his company X.ai Corp.

Some on Wall Street view Musk’s personal guarantees with skepticism, given that he tried to back out of his agreement to buy Twitter despite a watertight contract, before relenting.

Nevertheless, the guarantee from a man whose net worth Forbes pegs at about $243 billion has helped some of the bankers make the pitch to their internal committees that they can ascribe a higher price to the debt while they hold it on their balance sheets.

Morgan Stanley, the largest lender on the deal, in January disclosed $356 million in mark to market losses on corporate loans it planned to sell and loan hedges. Banks rarely report specific losses tied to an individual bond or loan, and often report write downs of multiple deals together.

Wall Street was saddled with the Twitter buyout loan at the same time they were holding a smattering of other hung bridge loans—deals they were forced to fund themselves after failing to raise cash in public bond and loan markets. The FT has previously reported on large losses tied to other hung loans at the time, including the buyouts of technology company Citrix and television rating provider Nielsen.

How the debt has been marked on bank balance sheets has been an open question for traders and investors across Wall Street, given how much X’s business has deteriorated since Musk bought the company.

Musk, already out of favor with marketers for loosening content moderation, last month lost more advertisers after endorsing an antisemitic post. In November he followed by telling brands that were boycotting the business over his actions to “go fuck” themselves, criticising Disney’s Bob Iger in particular.

According to a report last week from market intelligence firm Sensor Tower, in November 2023 total US ad spend among the top 100 advertisers on X was down nearly 45 percent compared with October 2022, prior to Musk’s takeover.

 

 

Tech and finance bros are so predictable. Musk ask for money, they line up and say yes just to get in his orbit. They did zero due diligence on this deal (sounds familiar) and did it so they could have ties to Elon, because "ElOn mUsk Is A GeNiUS, WE mUst gIVE HiM MOneY!!!" It's also the reason why these guys hung on to it thus far, for the chance to stay in the circle. Morons.

[C-Man 27223]

7 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

 

Tech and finance bros are so predictable. Musk ask for money, they line up and say yes just to get in his orbit. They did zero due diligence on this deal (sounds familiar) and did it so they could have ties to Elon, because "ElOn mUsk Is A GeNiUS, WE mUst gIVE HiM MOneY!!!" It's also the reason why these guys hung on to it thus far, for the chance to stay in the circle. Morons.

So the big banks are done loaning this shit-bird money, right?

[Nivek 16928]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:40 PM, Captain Ron said:

For the more rational, just remember: companies don’t love you, you may love your job, love your work and be the model employee. And your company in a bad spot might still let you go. Why? Because in the end they don’t give a shit. 

I worked for a company that selected a guy who had terminal cancer to layoff.  He was still trying to fight it and going to work was both difficult but a chance to escape and do the work he enjoyed.   

40 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

 

Tech and finance bros are so predictable. Musk ask for money, they line up and say yes just to get in his orbit. They did zero due diligence on this deal (sounds familiar) and did it so they could have ties to Elon, because "ElOn mUsk Is A GeNiUS, WE mUst gIVE HiM MOneY!!!" It's also the reason why these guys hung on to it thus far, for the chance to stay in the circle. Morons.

What and take responsibility for fucking up?  It is easier to just go with the herd and hope for systemic rewards.  

[atomheartbevo 89660]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:40 PM, Captain Ron said:

For the more rational, just remember: companies don’t love you, you may love your job, love your work and be the model employee. And your company in a bad spot might still let you go. Why? Because in the end they don’t give a shit. 

Yep.  Wizards of the Coast/Dungeons and Dragons have been consistently profitable, and they grew their revenue 40% in the last quarter (whereas many parts of Hasbro didn't come close to that), but Hasbro is gutting them, and it's fucking weird, because they aren't laying off the last hired, or one or two projects, but people who were helping with that profitability and whose jobs impact a lot of other employees, or that couldn't be easily made up by assigning their duties to other people.  Of course, there are conspiracy theories that it's a sign that they are going to kill off Wizards/DND, but I'll save that for the gaming thread.

https://www.geekwire.com/2023/hasbro-laying-off-wizards-of-the-coast-staff-is-baffling-and-could-lead-to-a-brain-drain/#:~:text=In its most recent earnings,subsidiaries had been laid off.

 

[Captainant 27664]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yep.  Wizards of the Coast/Dungeons and Dragons have been consistently profitable, and they grew their revenue 40% in the last quarter (whereas many parts of Hasbro didn't come close to that), but Hasbro is gutting them, and it's fucking weird, because they aren't laying off the last hired, or one or two projects, but people who were helping with that profitability and whose jobs impact a lot of other employees, or that couldn't be easily made up by assigning their duties to other people.  Of course, there are conspiracy theories that it's a sign that they are going to kill off Wizards/DND, but I'll save that for the gaming thread.

https://www.geekwire.com/2023/hasbro-laying-off-wizards-of-the-coast-staff-is-baffling-and-could-lead-to-a-brain-drain/#:~:text=In its most recent earnings,subsidiaries had been laid off.

 

I think it's more MBA toddlers that see their IP as just numbers in a ledger doing the "well if I can't exploit the shit out of this playerbase and goodwill, NOBODY can!" There's probably some placs that will get them a chance at a marginal increase in return on investment, so it's the signal to burn it all down 

[Neonmoon 38129]

58 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Tech and finance bros are so predictable. Musk ask for money, they line up and say yes just to get in his orbit. They did zero due diligence on this deal (sounds familiar) and did it so they could have ties to Elon, because "ElOn mUsk Is A GeNiUS, WE mUst gIVE HiM MOneY!!!" It's also the reason why these guys hung on to it thus far, for the chance to stay in the circle. Morons.

When you realize most finance bros are just gamblers, and not prudent investors, the finance industry makes a lot more sense 

[Prepuce of Doom 21073]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I worked for a company that selected a guy who had terminal cancer to layoff.  He was still trying to fight it and going to work was both difficult but a chance to escape and do the work he enjoyed.   

What kind of an animal is in charge of the HR decisions at that company? 

Someone should fight them!!!