Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

Prepuce of Doom · April 15

15 minutes ago, royiv said:

No love for the Caddy that zigs?

None whatsoever!

However, I do recall Michael Wilbon going on a very proud and totally earnest, "I drive a Dodge Stratus!"-esque rant about his Catera on PTI 20ish years ago, and the absurdity of it all has stuck with me more than anything else about that useless car.

Covri · April 15

29 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Actually, I agree, it does. I mean in a comic and actual sense, I'd rather drive that one if forced to roll a Cybertruck.

Best I can do is F-150 cybertruck

BurntEyes · April 15

17 minutes ago, Covri said:

Best I can do is F-150 cybertruck

Well man, it is a "Ford" being loaded onto a roadback from the roadside so.. it's fitting. (Sorry, couldn't resist the F.O.R.D. joke. I know, I suck.)

Edited April 15 by BurntEyes

choripan · April 15

38 minutes ago, royiv said:

No love for the Caddy that zigs?

I mean, the Catera led to the Alpha-platform cars (CTS-V and ATS-V, and now CT4/CT5), which are one of the few cars you can meaningfully track and put four people in that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I hate Musk as much as the next guy, by the way. I'd also add that I'm anti-proprietary just-about-anything, and the closed-off charging network drove me berserk, not unlike Apple's lightning cord or the way they used to do iTunes songs...

But ... I don't think I agree with the dominant sentiment here that going further down- and mass-market beyond the Model 3 is the play. I follow the auto industry at a distance, and there's a reason that many companies have dropped sedans and cheap cars -- they just don't make enough money per unit of capacity. And while I get the argument about cheap cars bringing customers to a brand for their future loyalty, the data don't indicate that customers are loyal enough to make it worth it and I don't think it's enough to offset making thousands than hundreds per car sold. I think the play for Tesla is not diluting the bread-and-butter of the brand too much by going downmarket, and refreshing their current vehicles.

But at the end of the day, I think Tesla is a one-trick pony (very-arguably cool tech, big promises, cachet, and fast acceleration set against shoddy build and poor per-dollar performance in anything but a straight line) and others are catching up to their trick while they have no ability to create something "new" again.

Francisco 2.0 · April 15

28 minutes ago, Covri said:

Best I can do is F-150 cybertruck

So, someone spent $100,000 on a Cybertruck, then spent another $10K or so on a wrap so the Cybertruck would resemble a F-150.

I........I have questions.

royiv · April 15

48 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

None whatsoever!

However, I do recall Michael Wilbon going on a very proud and totally earnest, "I drive a Dodge Stratus!"-esque rant about his Catera on PTI 20ish years ago, and the absurdity of it all has stuck with me more than anything else about that useless car.

The fact that the first thing I think of when I see the word Catera is the Caddy that zigs means GM did a good job of burning that into my much younger and impressionable brain.

Sawbonz · April 15

BrickHorn · April 15

24 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I hope he’s not peeing on a Cybertruck, because that will rust.

Edited April 15 by BrickHorn

F250 · April 15

1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Well man, it is a "Ford" being loaded onto a roadback from the roadside so.. it's fitting. (Sorry, couldn't resist the F.O.R.D. joke. I know, I suck.)

Wally Fairway · April 15

2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Well man, it is a "Ford" being loaded onto a roadback from the roadside so.. it's fitting. (Sorry, couldn't resist the F.O.R.D. joke. I know, I suck.)

help me out
a) Fix Or Repair Daily
b) Fucking Old Rebuilt Dodge
c) Fails On Rainy Days
d) Found On Road Deserted
e) Factory Ordered Road Disaster

(I can keep going if you want me to)

tbone_ · April 15

help me out
a) Fix Or Repair Daily
b) Fucking Old Rebuilt Dodge
c) Fails On Rainy Days
d) Found On Road Deserted
e) Factory Ordered Road Disaster

(I can keep going if you want me to)

Fastest on race day

chainsaw · April 15

Fix It Again, Tony

BurntEyes · April 15

2 hours ago, choripan said:

I mean, the Catera led to the Alpha-platform cars (CTS-V and ATS-V, and now CT4/CT5), which are one of the few cars you can meaningfully track and put four people in that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I hate Musk as much as the next guy, by the way. I'd also add that I'm anti-proprietary just-about-anything, and the closed-off charging network drove me berserk, not unlike Apple's lightning cord or the way they used to do iTunes songs...

But ... I don't think I agree with the dominant sentiment here that going further down- and mass-market beyond the Model 3 is the play. I follow the auto industry at a distance, and there's a reason that many companies have dropped sedans and cheap cars -- they just don't make enough money per unit of capacity. And while I get the argument about cheap cars bringing customers to a brand for their future loyalty, the data don't indicate that customers are loyal enough to make it worth it and I don't think it's enough to offset making thousands than hundreds per car sold. I think the play for Tesla is not diluting the bread-and-butter of the brand too much by going downmarket, and refreshing their current vehicles.

But at the end of the day, I think Tesla is a one-trick pony (very-arguably cool tech, big promises, cachet, and fast acceleration set against shoddy build and poor per-dollar performance in anything but a straight line) and others are catching up to their trick while they have no ability to create something "new" again.

Well, I've long (nearly since Tesla founding) maintained that the biggest issue with Tesla would ultimately be the production scaling ability. Scaling efficiency reduces cost and ultimately leads to a wider market. Further, I was always watching the funding aspect, particularly the subsidy aspect and profit. I long though of shorting, but hey... I didn't.

That said, while I agree with your sentiment regarding loyalty to a degree, I don't agree to the extent. There are a goodly number of people that buy a brand. I also think there are car people and people that buy cars. It's pretty clear Tesla created a bit of a hybrid, people that buy Teslas. I think there was a great possibility to get into that market with a lower cost entry.

Ultimately, I agree with your one trick pony assessment, but I think the production scaling and lack of a lower cost entry Tesla was the cause. Oddly, I really wanted Tesla to succeed, still want it to. I know the car helped change the market forever. Those are good things. The back end dealing with dead lithium ion batteries and mining for new ones is a bad one, but that's not a Tesla only issue.

MrBig · April 15

On 4/6/2024 at 6:03 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

I’ve been banging this on this thread for a while now. They spent way too much time on the Cybertruck and its awful and tough manufacturing process. They didn’t even do a refresh on the rest of the lineup, and now all are due for one at once. If not a completely new model.

Do you see any Cybertrucks down in the RGV?

Neonmoon · April 15

Things going great

New Twitter user have to pay

Edited April 15 by Neonmoon

Goredho · April 15

On 4/14/2024 at 10:04 AM, Brisketexan said:

I’ll say it again: Elon is an actual fucking idiot. He’s not smart. He is stupid as hell.

I think he had a combination of vision and tolerable sociopathy that made him a successful CEO for quite awhile. I don't know what happened, but something has robbed him of that vision, and all he has left is an increasingly intolerable sociopathy.

atomheartbevo · April 15

17 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Things going great

New Twitter user have to pay

Hmmm…almost like Tesla stock is not enough of an ATM to keep things going.

And I don’t think people realize how many bot accounts are paid accounts. That little blue badge really boosted their legitimacy and was a cheap price for some of them.

I’m guessing free users are soon going to have to pay. There aren’t enough new users to pay the bills, and the advertising has been shit.

Celery Man · April 15

You can tell he’s a true engineer because he calls tweeting write actions.

Hank Kingsley · April 15

Celery Man · April 15

57 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I think he had a combination of vision and tolerable sociopathy that made him a successful CEO for quite awhile. I don't know what happened, but something has robbed him of that vision, and all he has left is an increasingly intolerable sociopathy.

I hate to cite dunning kruger but if you’re very successful and have a cultish following of yes men you’re going to fall prey to that kind of thing bigly unless you are fairly wise and have strong character. Musk is deficient on both of those fronts, is way outside of his lane on everything, and thinks everyone else are the people who are wrong. It’s why he keeps doing stupid things but also why he keeps looking like an idiot in interviews or at the concert where he’s *not* surrounded by his people and he’s left hanging when he waits for approval of the stupid thing he just did.

(say the line, Hayden)

Edited April 15 by Celery Man

atomheartbevo · April 16

3 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

I hope he’s not peeing on a Cybertruck, because that will rust.

Any vehicle in your neighbor’s driveway will rust if you piss on it in the same spot nearly every night for several months.

chainsaw · April 16

I promise I'm not being glib or facetious here. What would it take for him to get involuntarily committed? The only people I've ever known who have been this reckless and deluded have all ended up on serious psychiatric meds and/or institutionalized.

Brisketexan · April 16

I hate to cite dunning kruger but if you’re very successful and have a cultish following of yes men you’re going to fall prey to that kind of thing bigly unless you are fairly wise and have strong character. Musk is deficient on both of those fronts, is way outside of his lane on everything, and thinks everyone else are the people who are wrong. It’s why he keeps doing stupid things but also why he keeps looking like an idiot in interviews or at the concert where he’s *not* surrounded by his people and he’s left hanging when he waits for approval of the stupid thing he just did.

(say the line, Hayden)

“Nobody knows more about ____ than me.”
The number one sign the speaker is actually an idiot.

BurntEyes · April 16

11 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I promise I'm not being glib or facetious here. What would it take for him to get involuntarily committed? The only people I've ever known who have been this reckless and deluded have all ended up on serious psychiatric meds and/or institutionalized.

Well, my knowledge is dated back to when I worked in the field, but first and foremost a person has to be shown as a danger to themselves or others. Then a court ordered involuntarily commitment can be issued, but it typically requires family members or law enforcement to press for such. In short, again, based on my very dated and incomplete knowledge of the subject, none of the required aspects are present. Even if they were, he would apply a lot of counter pressure with a wrll finanaced legal team and a ton of folks would come to his "rescue". So.. in short, no chance that I am aware of currently.

I am happy to be corrected by more knowledgeable folks.

chainsaw · April 16

10 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Well, my knowledge is dated back to when I worked in the field, but first and foremost a person has to be shown as a danger to themselves or others. Then a court ordered involuntarily commitment can be issued, but it typically requires family members or law enforcement to press for such. In short, again, based on my very dated and incomplete knowledge of the subject, none of the required aspects are present. Even if they were, he would apply a lot of counter pressure with a wrll finanaced legal team and a ton of folks would come to his "rescue". So.. in short, no chance that I am aware of currently.

I am happy to be corrected by more knowledgeable folks.

Is lighting billions of dollars on fire not a type of danger? In one of the stories I remember, a series of questionable financial decisions was how a few family members were nudged off the fence from the effort to get that person help.

Sawbonz · April 16

26 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I promise I'm not being glib or facetious here. What would it take for him to get involuntarily committed? The only people I've ever known who have been this reckless and deluded have all ended up on serious psychiatric meds and/or institutionalized.

Unless you are exhibiting violent behaviors, it pretty much takes a family member who loves you and cares about your wellbeing to get an involuntary commitment. So he’s SOL

chainsaw · April 16

Just now, Sawbonz said:

Unless you are exhibiting violent behaviors, it pretty much takes a family member who loves you and cares about your wellbeing to get an involuntary commitment. So he’s SOL

Even his blood emerald miner dad hates him

BurntEyes · April 16

13 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Is lighting billions of dollars on fire not a type of danger?

You're hoping you can get our entire state, local and federal government workers committed aren't you?!? You might want to start with the Greeks or Italians. Low hangin' fruit if you will.

956 Worldwide · April 16

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Things going great

New Twitter user have to pay

This is the only way to solve the problem that had been solved before I created it again.

956 Worldwide · April 16

Also, the Aurora was a the base of a really good car doomed by its Olds brand and GM parts bin interior. The Aztek was before its time and previewed where we were going with crossovers. The Fiero finally got good when the Pontiac guys were able to get more power for it despite Corvette guys’ protests. The Honda Ridgeline is a very good and comfortable truck that does everything most people need in a truck. The Cybertruck is shit.

These are my car opinions and they are correct.

Ted Lange · April 16

Who doesn’t have a twitter account yet that wants one? I’d guess 99.9% of new users are bots and people who got their account locked out along with new parody accounts for people/things in the news.

MrBig · April 16

Isn’t Tesla required to give notice of layoffs through the WARN Act with 60 days notice?

immamac · April 16

Just now, MrBig said:

Isn’t Tesla required to give notice of layoffs through the WARN Act with 60 days notice?

What are people gonna do? Sue them?

Pato del Muerto · April 16

18 minutes ago, immamac said:

What are people gonna do? Sue them?

Federal law so stuff would happen. Or they can pay out 60 days. Elon would probably want them to stay and work for the money and hope some jumped early to other jobs and saved him some money.

freyguy · April 16

60 days notice. I'm not an HR person, but I bet there's many ways around that requirement. Is it 60 days from the employees being notified, or from when the severance fully pays out? I don't know, and frankly don't care.

Tesla manufacturing is very inefficient and is complete shit for automotive quality. He banked on creating his own "iphone" type market with cars, and it backfired.

Yes, alot of smug fan boys love their Tesla. But that same type of population loved their prius when it first came out too. Toyota makes excellent vehicles, but you don't see the Prius dominating the auto market either.

I'm going to have fun watching the slow demise...

Pato del Muerto · April 16

6 minutes ago, freyguy said:

60 days notice. I'm not an HR person, but I bet there's many ways around that requirement. Is it 60 days from the employees being notified, or from when the severance fully pays out?

Warn act says employees get 60 days notice or 60 days pay or a combo of the two.

most companies choose the notice and hope the effected employees are able to leave prior to the full notice term for a new job, as quitting relieves them of the 60 day responsibility.

MrBig · April 16

956 Worldwide · April 16

2 hours ago, MrBig said:

This man is fixing to charge three bucks to like a tweet on what planet is he going to cut a former employee a break on a car payment? LOL.

freyguy · April 16

3 hours ago, MrBig said:

"Hey, my company just laid me off. Why don't I get my corporate incentives anymore?"

Seriously?

locodos · April 16

I've seen two Cybertruck bros in the wild. Both just quickly in passing.

The first one was wrapped and had the suspension up (I assume) The wrap looked good and the novelty of the truck made me think... "Meh not my cup o tea but not as bad in person as the internet says"

Then I saw the second one dropping their kid off at school. No wrap, much lower, and it looked straight up stupid. Like dull metallic door stopper. Yikes

Fudge Nuggets · April 16

If you're leasing your car, you probably have bigger financial black flags than some corporate rebate / discount.

Captainant · April 16

It is pretty shitty to keep the employees locked into a lease that just doubled in price while also taking away their pay. That's just being shitty for the sake of being shitty.

Born to Run · April 16

I promise I'm not being glib or facetious here. What would it take for him to get involuntarily committed? The only people I've ever known who have been this reckless and deluded have all ended up on serious psychiatric meds and/or institutionalized.

Deny him a Pepsi?

atomheartbevo · April 16

37 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

If you're leasing your car, you probably have bigger financial black flags than some corporate rebate / discount.

What if it’s a Corvette?

NoName · April 16

this seems like the wrong way to handle it

also losing 2 hours (!) of productivity because you are having to do badge checks because of your shitty notification method? just incredible.

https://www.businessinsider.in/thelife/news/some-tesla-factory-workers-realized-they-were-laid-off-when-security-scanned-their-badges-and-sent-them-back-on-shuttles-sources-say/articleshow/109323973.cms

Some Tesla factory workers realized they were laid off when security scanned their badges and sent them back on shuttles, sources say

Quote

The cuts impacted engineers and production associates alike. At Tesla's factory in Sparks, Nevada, workers faced about a two-hour line Monday morning in order to get into the facility as a result of badge checks, one worker said.

At the factory, the security team was scanning the badges of workers coming out of the shuttles that ferry people between the factory and nearby parking lots, said two current Tesla workers who requested anonymity since they weren't authorized to speak about the matter. Typically, security guards inspect workers' badges at the site, but don't usually scan them directly, the two workers said. On Monday morning, the officials picked out the workers who had been laid off and sent them back on separate vans, the two workers said.

Three other former Tesla employees said workers at the Fremont factory were told by security that if their badges didn't work they were no longer employed.

Tesla employees who were terminated received notice via their personal emails on Sunday night and their access to Tesla systems was revoked, four workers said. The company-wide email that Elon Musk sent announcing the cuts was delivered shortly before midnight on Sunday, according to a timestamp on the memo viewed by BI.

"We have done a thorough review of the organization and made the difficult decision to reduce our headcount globally. Unfortunately as a result, your position has been eliminated by this restructuring," a separate email notifying impacted employees they'd been laid off reads, according to a copy viewed by Business Insider.

The email sent directly to laid-off staff said the cuts would be effective immediately and workers would receive information regarding their severance within 48 hours.

reddit rumor is 10% globally, 20% RIF in Austin, backing off night shifts by a couple of hours (or entirely) and 50% of the QA team was let go.

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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

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