Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[Captainant 27625]

3 minutes ago, Homercles said:

SR-71 used Star tracking cameras in the 60’s to navigate, along with a slew of other weapons…but yeah, not so much first few minutes of flight 

Inertial guidance exists because you cannot rely solely on visual data. Same thing as ILS approaches for aviation. He's off his rocker

[aggie08 21482]

It's a little disingenuous to (rightfully) criticize others for using god awful sourcing to reaffirm their world views, then immediately take a Slack rumor and run with it. If Elon truly does want this, he'll voice it soon enough. But I don't think even he is that stupid.

Edited October 14 by aggie08

[Brisketexan 105057]

Just now, aggie08 said:

It's a little disingenuous to (rightfully) criticize others for using god awful sourcing to reaffirm their world views, then immediately take a Slacker rumor and run with it. If Elon truly does want this, he'll voice it soon enough. But I don't think even he is that stupid.

Agree with all of this.  Except the bolded.

One thing we have learned in this era is that many supposedly smart people are often among the stupidest motherfuckers to ever walk the planet. 

[Homercles 10205]

19 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Inertial guidance exists because you cannot rely solely on visual data. Same thing as ILS approaches for aviation. He's off his rocker

Oh that was in no way, shape or form supporting Elmo’s dumbass…just pointing out that ICBM’s, satellites, etc have used star trackers.  

Inertial is making a comeback as area denial starts to include GPS jamming…not to mention ASAT weapons.  Was always fascinated by the AIRS unit in the Peacekeeper 

https://www.twz.com/30254/this-isnt-a-sci-fi-prop-its-a-doomsday-navigator-for-americas-biggest-cold-war-icbm

[totallynotabuttpirate 5395]

I think you can also use cameras by themselves for life support systems. Just train your AI to detect when it looks like everyone is suffocating, easy peasy. 

[Mittens 8256]

 

[Captain Ron 12865]

3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

It's a little disingenuous to (rightfully) criticize others for using god awful sourcing to reaffirm their world views, then immediately take a Slack rumor and run with it. If Elon truly does want this, he'll voice it soon enough. But I don't think even he is that stupid.

Have you been reading his tweets?

Edited October 15 by Captain Ron

[aggie08 21482]

19 minutes ago, Mittens said:

 

Name two Apple employees.

Kind of the perk of the job. Not excusing it, but it is what it is.

[atomheartbevo 89623]

4 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Name two Apple employees.

Tim Apple and John Ivey.

[NoName 16350]

6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Tim Apple and John Ivey.

[texasdago 7566]

11 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Name two Apple employees.

Kind of the perk of the job. Not excusing it, but it is what it is.

[F250 28762]

11 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Name two Apple employees.

Kind of the perk of the job. Not excusing it, but it is what it is.

Wozniak > Jobs

[jkates 316]

12 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Name two Apple employees.

Kind of the perk of the job. Not excusing it, but it is what it is.

It's also a dumb criticism without foundation in reality.

I worked closely with Spacex for over a decade. Most of the people I interacted with voiced respect for Musk and Shotwell. They are not worried about the spotlight on him. They are trying to change the world/universe and having a blast doing it. Puns intended.

I'm sure some employees don't like leadership/Musk. That happens in every company of this size. Nothing burger.

[Buzzrock 14902]

Looked for a space x thread but didn’t see it: this is badass footage. Looks like something out of a movie. 
 

 

[jkates 316]

6 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Looked for a space x thread but didn’t see it: this is badass footage. Looks like something out of a movie. 
 

 

Flat out amazing. 

[Mittens 8256]

 

[Captain Ron 12865]

15 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Name two Apple employees.

Kind of the perk of the job. Not excusing it, but it is what it is.

Someone else mentioned Ive, Tim Cook could also be on the list. Hartmut Esslinger was a major designer that was pivotal in the look and feel that Apple went for.

You're also making a very uneven comparison here. The reason that Jobs received so much recognition for what Apple was doing was because he was working with the teams very closely to make the products and design decisions. He didn't just tell a team "make X" walk away and then slap his name on it when they brought him the design. He was right there in the room making it happen. No question there is a dubiousness about him having his name on over 1,100 Apple patents, but he did directly touch the work that went into each patent.

Frankly, when you study Jobs vs Musk, there isn't much of a comparison. Jobs had a unique blend of technical chops, artistic creativity and showmanship for selling his products. Musk has demonstrated that he understands marketing (though recent years are demonstrating that he is more PT Barnum than Jobs in this regard), but  completely lacks any of his technical skill or creativity.

So to try to make this comparison, just no.

Edited October 15 by Captain Ron

[bolverk 29652]

3 hours ago, jkates said:

I'm sure some employees don't like leadership/Musk. That happens in every company of this size. Nothing burger.

I'm sure some of his employees don't appreciate being pressured into having his babies, either. But, as someone who always seems to find himself in the defense of sexual predators, I'm not surprised this is coming from you, oh, holy man of god.

[DigglerontheHoof 21175]

26 minutes ago, Mittens said:

 

Just stick to putting your dick in whores, you fucking moron.

[JMFP 1120]

29 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Someone else mentioned Ive, Tim Cook could also be on the list. Hartmut Esslinger was a major designer that was pivotal in the look and feel that Apple went for.

You're also making a very uneven comparison here. The reason that Jobs received so much recognition for what Apple was doing was because he was working with the teams very closely to make the products and design decisions. He didn't just tell a team "make X" walk away and then slap his name on it when they brought him the design. He was right there in the room making it happen. No question there is a dubiousness about him having his name on over 1,100 Apple patents, but he did directly touch the work that went into each patent.

Frankly, when you study Jobs vs Musk, there isn't much of a comparison. Jobs had a unique blend of technical chops, artistic creativity and showmanship for selling his products. Musk has demonstrated that he understands marketing (though recent years are demonstrating that he is more PT Barnum than Jobs in this regard), but  completely lacks any of his technical skill or creativity.

So to try to make this comparison, just no.

 

[52-80 19144]

33 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

He didn't just tell a team "make X" walk away and then slap his name on it when they brought him the design.

Musk has demonstrated that he understands marketing (though recent years are demonstrating that he is more PT Barnum than Jobs in this regard), but  completely lacks any of his technical skill or creativity.

Astounding discovery.  You’ve just cracked the secret of how to break into and compete/lead multiple industries:  get a marketer to tell people to “make X”.

Like, “build me the best selling car in the world, chop chop”. 

Someone should tell Bezos. 

[Celery Man 20931]

Elon obviously wasn't always an idiot. And there is clearly value to the rich guy setting a super cool goal and either unleashing brilliant people on it or serving as mascot and marketing. Unfortunately he has the world's most public and devastating case of brain worms, and of course that is an entirely different thing than what Jobs did.

[Brisketexan 105057]

51 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Just stick to putting your dick in whores, you fucking moron.

Hey.....

[Nivek 16916]

Astounding discovery.  You’ve just cracked the secret of how to break into and compete/lead multiple industries:  get a marketer to tell people to “make X”.
Like, “build me the best selling car in the world, chop chop”. 
Someone should tell Bezos. 

So do you know the real story of Tesla and the 2 founders? One was an electrical engineer who raced electric cars. He asked a custom electric race car company to make production vehicles and they declined. He did some work for them and then figured he could make a go of it and brought in another guy. Elon sued to have himself listed as a founder of the firm when he was just an investor. Once it got rolling he started branding it as his idea.

[atomheartbevo 89623]

1 hour ago, Captain Ron said:

Frankly, when you study Jobs vs Musk, there isn't much of a comparison. Jobs had a unique blend of technical chops, artistic creativity and showmanship for selling his products. Musk has demonstrated that he understands marketing (though recent years are demonstrating that he is more PT Barnum than Jobs in this regard), but  completely lacks any of his technical skill or creativity.

So to try to make this comparison, just no.

Jobs would have fired Musk if Musk worked for him.

[52-80 19144]

15 minutes ago, Nivek said:

So do you know the real story of Tesla and the 2 founders? One was an electrical engineer who raced electric cars. He asked a custom electric race car company to make production vehicles and they declined. He did some work for them and then figured he could make a go of it and brought in another guy. Elon sued to have himself listed as a founder of the firm when he was just an investor. Once it got rolling he started branding it as his idea.

Can you explain a little more about what “it” was that got rolling, which idea was claimed, and what relations those 2 founders have to the Tesla company that’s now put over 5 million cars on the road. 

Musk being ‘just an investor’ was actually the majority owner — ie capitalizing most of the company (and as chair led subsequent funding). That occurred some 6 months into its incorporation.

The original founder got booted before Tesla ever sold a single car - the first of which was on a Lotus chassis, totaling 2500 unit in its lifetime. 

Over a decade later, Tesla achieved profitability for the first time ever, on the backs of mass production of the Model 3.

How much of that credit do you want to appoint to the initial employees?

[jkates 316]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

I'm sure some of his employees don't appreciate being pressured into having his babies, either. But, as someone who always seems to find himself in the defense of sexual predators, I'm not surprised this is coming from you, oh, holy man of god.

Oh, this line again. (Ad hominem - a fallacy employed by someone with no argument on the topic at hand) What predator did I defend again? And where have I claimed to be holy? 

Anyway, Spacex is cool and Musk is leading it.

[partytimesausage 27]

Space x is wild.  Tesla is an amazing company.  Neuralink is pretty fucking cool.  And Elon is a douche.  All these things are allowed to be true at the same time.  I can filter through the elon douchiness and still see the generational possibilities of these companies.  I wish the man would divest out of them so other people could embrace the spectacle of snatching a skyscaper sized booster out of the air. 

[52-80 19144]

People are only dishonest with themselves when they let their emotion trump their objectivity. Like, you can hate Baker but still admit that hes a better QB than Colt. 

[hookemATL 11701]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

you can hate Baker but still admit that hes a better QB than Colt. 

[royiv 9247]

3 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Just stick to putting your dick in whores, you fucking moron.

If he has $100k+ to spend on on a Cybertruck, he’s doing a lot of gay for pay.

[Celery Man 20931]

[F250 28762]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Like, you can hate Baker but still admit that hes a better QB than Colt. 

[Nivek 16916]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Can you explain a little more about what “it” was that got rolling, which idea was claimed, and what relations those 2 founders have to the Tesla company that’s now put over 5 million cars on the road. 

Musk being ‘just an investor’ was actually the majority owner — ie capitalizing most of the company (and as chair led subsequent funding). That occurred some 6 months into its incorporation.

The original founder got booted before Tesla ever sold a single car - the first of which was on a Lotus chassis, totaling 2500 unit in its lifetime. 

Over a decade later, Tesla achieved profitability for the first time ever, on the backs of mass production of the Model 3.

How much of that credit do you want to appoint to the initial employees?

Um, you are just cherry picking information.   Musk was an integral investor who helped them get the funding to build the cars and to expand the company.   He is also a prick who ran off the guys whose design was that first sports car, as their business plan was sound.  Build the sports car first, then build a cheaper car, then build an even cheaper model.   He laid the groundwork, and got the boot just as they rolled out the first models to be sold.  At that point the company was established, and Musk rushed into take credit.  He disparaged the guy and settled a lawsuit.  The fact that they achieved profitability as they scaled up is not really a surprise, fuck man, their profit margins are 50% on some models IIRC.   Let's not act like he sat down and designed the shit. 

My guess is that the reason the Cybertruck took so long to produce was that Elon has a Elizabeth Holmes method for design, sets a goal and hopes others can achieve it.  The timeline still seems rushed as the bugs and fixes make it pretty much shit.   The other vehicles don't have these ridiculous issues.  I think this dichotomy in quality is directly related to the pivot from car guys starting the company and building the team.   Heck his FSD should have billions of miles driven data.  When will there be enough data to analyze? 

 

 

[Shaddie 1651]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

Whatever the Tesla startup story is the CT is 1000% Musk fuckup. 

[Homercles 10205]

Will never understand some people’s affinity for billionaires and large companies.  This ‘we will make as many miserable as possible so we can reduce headcount without paying severance’ RTO push, taking in huge profits by keeping pandemic-shortage prices, funding massive disinformation campaigns…it’s all making me MORE bitter towards these people/companies, not less.  

Tesla could return to a leadership role but it seems apparent to me that remaining key talent is chasing these vanity projects (CT, bullshit 2-person low slung ‘taxi’, human-controlled ‘robots’ serving drinks, a van that can’t survive a speed bump) instead of developing new models…instead they have aging offerings that all look the same and potential customers turned off by Elon-stan making an ass of himself.  

[Captain Ron 12865]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

People are only dishonest with themselves when they let their emotion trump their objectivity. Like, you can hate Baker but still admit that hes a better QB than Colt. 

Jesus Christ. This just might be the Sooner equivalent of Godwin. 

[HornOnTheBayou 8905]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

People are only dishonest with themselves when they let their emotion trump their objectivity. Like, you can hate Baker but still admit that hes a better QB than Colt. 

Should I try to explain why you are wrong or just neg you?

[Deej 76752]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

People are only dishonest with themselves when they let their emotion trump their objectivity. Like, you can hate Baker but still admit that hes a better QB than Colt. 

Thanks, Mrs. Mayfield.

[Captain Ron 12865]

SpaceX - amazing company

Neuralink - could be amazing

Tesla - once upon a time an amazing company but the leadership of musk has seriously led them astray.

My biggest gripes concerns are:

1.WTF is that robot crap? Waste of time and money. I don’t seen the market for them.

2. Why is Leon so dead set on FSD with minimal hardware? I mean I know why  he wants to be able to sell it as a feature to everyone. But given how far they are behind the companies that have L5, I don’t get why he hasn’t punted on this. Put Lidar in the cars and maybe actually achieve FSD.

3. Why are they spending time making MORE expensive cars and not trying to make less expensive cars? They could dominate the market if they actually ever achieved a sub $30K vehicle. I get making the Cybertruck. Rivian is demonstrating people want EV trucks. But don’t do it at the expense of lower priced cars. The CT didn’t have to be  a potential Tesla killer. It could have been a new luxury in a line of cars that also had appeal to the masses.

Sure Musk is running his gums and saying dumb things, but he’s also running Tesla like absolute crap. And we shit on him for that too.

[52-80 19144]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Um, you are just cherry picking information.   Musk was an integral investor who helped them get the funding to build the cars and to expand the company.   He is also a prick who ran off the guys whose design was that first sports car, as their business plan was sound.  Build the sports car first, then build a cheaper car, then build an even cheaper model.   He laid the groundwork, and got the boot just as they rolled out the first models to be sold.  At that point the company was established, and Musk rushed into take credit.  He disparaged the guy and settled a lawsuit.  The fact that they achieved profitability as they scaled up is not really a surprise, fuck man, their profit margins are 50% on some models IIRC.   Let's not act like he sat down and designed the shit. 

My guess is that the reason the Cybertruck took so long to produce was that Elon has a Elizabeth Holmes method for design, sets a goal and hopes others can achieve it.  

What part is cherry picked?

The fact that Musk was the 4th person in Tesla, joining the now-250 months old company 6 months after it was founded, and as the majority owner and actual chair, had authority over the company?

When you say the company was “established” -- when Eberhard was kicked out -- it had produced 0 cars, the Model S hadnt been designed, 3 years before IPO, and would go on to accumulate $6 billion dollars of net losses over the next 13 years….

…and you want crown the first 2 guys for “having the plan” 13 years and 1,000,000 vehicles sold later?

That is an amazingly bad understanding of business and history. 

“The fact that they scaled up and achieved profitability is not a surprise”

It’s just that easy? You just build a cheaper one after the other - and it will be no surprise to have a profitable business? When the entire public market signaled (through its equity) for 9 straights years that it didnt believe the company would get anywhere, and the company was on the verge of bankruptcy, you just knew success was no surprise?

The revisionism is amazing.

[52-80 19144]

31 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Should I try to explain why you are wrong or just neg you?

NFL career 2:1 TD ratio, threw 4000 yards last year, beat the defending conf champs in playoffs, made the probowl, and has near 110 rating this season.

Like with the Murray midget, I hate them, but I recognize that they can play ball…

[52-80 19144]

43 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Will never understand some people’s affinity for billionaires and large companies.  

You realize the fundamental error in your understanding of causal relationship right?

Companies grow to be large and generate wealth for its owners *because* customers have an affinity for its products and investors have an affinity for its business. 

[Hefeweizen 5310]

Billionaire defended successfully.

[atomheartbevo 89623]

1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

Billionaire defended successfully.

[52-80 19144]

4 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

Billionaire defended successfully.

"Don't defend the water cycle bro.  Wet streets causes rain." Hurr durr.

 

[Celery Man 20931]

11 hours ago, 52-80 said:

You realize the fundamental error in your understanding of causal relationship right?

Companies grow to be large and generate wealth for its owners *because* customers have an affinity for its products and investors have an affinity for its business. 

How do you think Elon’s stewardship since being redpilled have impacted the affinity that customers have for the products of Tesla and Twitter and that investors have for those businesses?

[Captainant 27625]

11 hours ago, 52-80 said:

You realize the fundamental error in your understanding of causal relationship right?

Companies grow to be large and generate wealth for its owners *because* customers have an affinity for its products and investors have an affinity for its business. 

So is it your position that elmos management of Twitter has caused it to grow large and generate wealth? Or are you arguing that since elmo has successfully manipulated the value TSLA, everything else he does is defacto correct?

[52-80 19144]

22 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

How do you think Elon’s stewardship since being redpilled have impacted the affinity that customers have for the products of Tesla and Twitter and that investors have for those businesses?

Many people now dislike him/them and are disinclined to buy his/their products. Many people also now like him and more inclined to buy his/their products. Net-net, it's much better for business to have him stayed silent and let products compete on their merits.

That's not controversial, and also not been the argument.

The argument was a very reductive marginalization of his impact to a company he stewarded through 99.5% of its life as person #4, in favor of guys #1-2.  It's like giving Dana Bible credit for Sark's team. And then the very juvenile and populist rhetoric of why 'billionaire bad', when we've merely been discussing the prior topic. 

People should admit when they cant argue the facts in the conversation, that their issue is with the conversation about facts itself.  (Which is kinda weird because why would you click into this topic...) 

[Celery Man 20931]

10 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

It's like giving Dana Bible credit for Sark's team. And then the very juvenile and populist rhetoric of why 'billionaire bad', when we've merely been discussing the prior topic. 

 

I’ll get in trouble trying to make football analogies but i think it’s more like understanding Jon Gruden as a Super Bowl champion head coach.

Framing this 446 page conversation as hurr durr billionaire bad is reductive on your part but do you.