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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?


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6 hours ago, 52-80 said:

I can believe Eberhard was the a car enthusiast. But you have to bridge how being a bigger gearhead translates into being responsible for what Tesla Inc is today. Eberhard 'consulting' with ACP actually was him discovering when they were already converting their battery to li-ion (per ACP President Tom Gage). He had no prior experience attesting to any involvement in auto manufacturing or motor design or such.  He last worked making book readers.  The technical chops overseeing most of Tesla engineering history was Straubel (#5) and Baglino, both Musk hires.

Let me know if I sum your arguments correctly:

1. Eberhard and Tarp are more responsible for Teslas success than Musk

2.Because contribution of their Plan during 4 year tenure supercedes whatever musk contributed in his 21 year tenure

3.The Plan being.. put li-ion in a car, and then make progressively cheaper cars... ?

Is that plan particularly unique or groundbreaking? Is that the key to making the #1 selling car in the world, and why havent anybody else successfully followed it? Why arent those 2 being sought after for any other gigs today given the enormity of their idea? Finally, if we're making this argument of genesis, wouldn't you say it's actually AC Propulsion that is responsible for everything Tesla is today?

 

Rolling double-sixes multiple time in a rows gets exponentially harder. Name some of these children of wealth who have done this.

Eli is top 10 in career yards and touchdowns. The only 2 guys above him who dont have championships are Marino and Rivers. Without the championships, he would still end up in HOF, just like Rivers will, and like the rest of the T10 are.  Are you seriously suggesting his career achievement is luck over competence?

 

1/3) I think that the influence and business plan that was put in place with the 2 founders was sound and I do not think Tesla exists without them.  I do not think Elon provided a service much greater than a Peter Thiel, Bezos, Buffet, Gates, Jobs, or any other celebrity rich connected guy could have if they were in the same position.   So yes, they had the idea for the company, their competencies to bringing products to market were instrumental in getting the plan off the ground and their knowledge and connections gave them credibility to outside investors.   Elon jumping in, also helped with the cash raising aspects and it seems like he was content with the founders getting things going.   During that time, the first EV to be street legal and mass produced by Tesla was going forward under their watch and with the people they brought to make it happen and to build for the future.   I absolutely believe they had a plan to build the first car at a loss to prove it could be done without legacy automakers and then use the money from the sales and additional funding to develop the next model which would be offered to many more customers (though too expensive) for everyone.  Then use that capital to grow the business further so they could bring down fixed unit costs across all models and compete with legacy automakers with EVs for mass consumption in westernized nations with the infrastructure.   They also needed to develop home charging stations and on site charging stations in order to grow the acceptance of the vehicles as well.   Elon has actually stated that was the plan for Tesla.  With the NDAs and the lack of insider knowledge, it seems like that strategy which they largely achieved was instrumental to their success.    So look at the Elon lead business strategy for Tesla.   It is a mess.  

I said I wasn't going to do this but here it is:

Article 1:  Master Plan 

Article 2: Elon takes credit for Master Plan (you can find other examples of this if you do not like the source) (here Elon refers to himself as CEO in 2006 when Eberhard was in that role! https://www.tesla.com/secret-master-plan

Article 3: Master Plan 2   (this one links some commentary, but the plan is outlined)

Article 4: Master Plan 3  (this one likes the research of the plan but doesn't address the implementation issues)

 

2) I really do not believe Musk runs the company.   How many CEOs do you know and what type of hours do they put in?  The few I knew who part-timed it or 40-50 houred it didn't last or the companies went under.  How can Musk do the same for Boring, Starlink, Twitter, Tesla, and SpaceX?   I think Musk relies on others to actually run the company.  (I have run a store before without the title while my supervisor was credited for it.  He had virtually involvement and only showed up when I went on vacation.)  

4) A plan doesn't have to be ground breaking to be successful.  They found an uninhabited market space which was not being served and they served it.   Look, buy low, sell high, isn't going to be new to any investor, but damn if that isn't how many of us make money in investments when it comes down to it.   If you are into shorting you just invert the order of operations but the fundamentals are still the same.   Especially if they estimate their margins are high and much higher than their capital costs.

Lastly,  I brought up the master plans (strategies) for a secondary reason.   If you look at the original one, it was focused and had clear goals which make sense.   If you look at Master Plan 2, it is kind of shitty.   The idea that they will enter every market segment for vehicular travel is simply not reasonable.   They can make passenger vehicles but they cannot just simply scale it up to any size and make something equivalent.   It reminds me of the idea of making a giant bug from the movie Relic a monster, in reality a scaled up bug would just hug the ground not able to get enough oxygen because its system is not evolved to be that massive.  Shrink rays and Big rays are fun for movies, but the physical limitations of reality get in the way.   Sure if new battery technology comes out, then this can be revisited.    

The other aspects include create stunning solar roofs (subjective and not actionable) and develop the self-driving capability which is 10x safer than manual driving.  Well they have had access to billions of miles driven from their products, how much is enough to put it into place?  Why is this not working?   Can it work given the limitations provided on the cars out there or what would have to be added for future care to be able to achieve this?   Enable car to make money for you when you aren't using it.  (How?)    And now they are moving to master plans 3/4 when they haven't achieved 2?   Why are they suddenly not focused and no longer able to meet these goals?   I think the answer is that Elon's setting them now.  And the first ones were set by the former founder.  So yeah, if that is accurate then much of the success is rooted in the culture and strategies they created off of the ideas they had.   

 

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3 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Must burn him up that despite forcefeeding this tweet on the entire userbase's feeds it's been over 12 hours and there are more people living in Beeville than there are people (and bots) worldwide who "liked" his "joke."

He seems to be getting a lot more anxious these days.  He’s set up more PACs, most likely because his business acumen has left him in a position where  the locals are pissed at what he’s doing and the government has been taking a closer look at his operations. He needs protection.

  • Hook 'Em 1
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5 hours ago, HenryJames said:
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“The last thing I would do is trust a computer program,” he said, promoting the idea that U.S. elections should use only paper ballots.

So, Elon, we’re not supposed to trust software now? That doesn’t seem like something you want to hear from the CEO of multiple tech companies.

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