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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

MaybeACoordinator

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Spottieottiedopaliscious
Spottieottiedopaliscious

Hotez is far from bulletproof.       

MissingInAction
MissingInAction
Spottieottiedopaliscious
Spottieottiedopaliscious

Absolutely.    Would you like other guys pointing out Hotez deficiencies?   It was actually more about Hotez but whatever? Why stick around? All the constructive back and forth

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aggie08

aggie08 21492

Posted
Posted
Just now, C-Man said:

No $1M "lottery" winner yesterday. Guess Elmo/Leon didn't like having his peepee spanked by the DOJ.

I figured he was going to keep the sweepstakes going, then use the DOJ as an excuse for why all the checks bounced.

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Captainant

Captainant 27638

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, C-Man said:

No $1M "lottery" winner yesterday. Guess Elmo/Leon didn't like having his peepee spanked by the DOJ.

 

56 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I figured he was going to keep the sweepstakes going, then use the DOJ as an excuse for why all the checks bounced.

If you never give out any money, there was never any lottery amirite? Checkmate, atheists. 

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gofuckyourself

gofuckyourself 8207

Posted
Posted
On 10/21/2024 at 3:10 PM, Nivek said:

That is really all there is to it.  The oligarchical elements exist within every society and have for a long time.  If kept in check, it can be good for the society.  When let to run amok, we get convicted con-men like Trump and his moronic children elevated to some social status.   We should have predicted this with the rise of the stupid-ass shows like Kardashians and the rise of shitbags.     

I usually don't make "New surly slogan" posts, but ... 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11362

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

What’s funny is that’s a shitty ad buy. You think the guys on twitter need convincing to vote for trump? 

sometimes you market on units sold, sometimes you market on revenue.

musk needs the revenues for investors, but he'll market the "number of impressions" metrics and those same investors will eat it up even though he's robbing himself to pay himself. 

elon might have solved the pyramid scheme!

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Captainant

Captainant 27638

Posted
Posted (edited)

Gee whiz, what a shock

https://www.rawstory.com/amp/elon-musk-2669477305-2669477305

(Here's the WSJ coverage if that's more your cup of tea https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/musk-putin-secret-conversations-37e1c187)

Quote

Elon Musk (AFP)

Daniel Hampton

October 24, 2024

Tech billionaire and vocal Trump supporter Elon Musk has talked regularly with Russian President Vladimir Putin for at least two years, according to a new report.

Several current and former officials for the U.S., Europe and Russia told The Wall Street Journal Musk has discussed personal topics, business and geopolitical issues, with Putin at one point asking Musk to avoid activating his Starlink satellites and providing internet service over Taiwan.

The report revealed that in 2022, the world's richest man was under public and private pressure from the Kremlin.

"In May 2022, Russia’s space chief said in a post on Telegram that Musk would 'answer like an adult' for supplying Starlink to Ukraine’s Azov battalion, which the Kremlin had singled out for the ultraright ideology espoused by some members," the Journal reported.

The article continued: "Later in 2022, Musk was having regular conversations with 'high-level Russians,' according to a person familiar with the interactions. At the time, there was pressure from the Kremlin on Musk’s businesses and 'implicit threats against him,' the person said."

That same year, Musk began pushing more Russian-aligned stances, including that SpaceX was losing money by funding terminals in Ukraine, as well as asking his followers on his app, X, to support peace plans that "mirrored some aspects of the Kremlin's offer to Ukraine," the Journal reported. Additionally, Musk has become more critical of American military aid to Ukraine.

The report comes after the Justice Department reportedly sent Musk a warning letter after he began a lottery for voters in swing states

Pretty interesting how his takeover of Twitter maps cleanly onto his interactions with russian handlers. First contact by putin was in May'22, he starts buying Twitter in August'22, and by November it's already underway getting turned into a fascist online hangout

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Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5310

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Not to go full conspiracy theory but this may explain his all out political efforts in the past few months.  He may be running out of time before some of these excursions come back to haunt him.  I’ve always thought he seemed like he was spinning too many plates, but I thought it would be China, not Russia, that would cause him significant issues.  I also thought it would be Tesla, which has been his piggy bank, that would be where the issues surfaced first.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89630

Posted
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2 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

Not to go full conspiracy theory but this may explain his all out political efforts in the past few months.  He may be running out of time before some of these excursions come back to haunt him.  I’ve always thought he seemed like he was spinning too many plates, but I thought it would be China, not Russia, that would cause him significant issues.  I also thought it would be Tesla, which has been his piggy bank, that would be where the issues surfaced first.

I posted a page or two back, but he’s facing a lot of problems with his companies and multiple federal agencies.

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B00M

B00M 6414

Posted
Posted

It takes a special combination or arrogance and stupidity to think you can regularly communicate with ex KGB (that’s being advised by modern KGB) without getting yourself manipulated and coerced. As if we needed any more evidence that this guy is dumb as fuck. 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32389

Posted
Posted

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/elon-musk-trump-tax-break-election-2024-1235141380/

 

Quote

Thanks to a provision buried in the tax code, Elon Musk could reap one of the largest personalized tax breaks in American history if former President Donald Trump wins the 2024 election and fulfills his pledge to appoint Musk to a top government post, according to tax and ethics experts’ review of long-standing statutes. 

This special tax benefit — which is only available to federal officials — would be in addition to massive tax breaks Musk could reap if a new Trump administration further cuts income and other taxes for billionaires.

 

Quote

Musk has poured millions of dollars into a Trump-boosting super PAC. His companies, Tesla and SpaceX, currently have billions of dollars of government contracts that could be regulated or expanded by a new government commission or cabinet-level department that Trump is promising will be headed by Musk. Trump has said Musk will be his new “secretary of cost-cutting” and Musk has said he “can’t wait” to work in a Trump White House.

The United States Office of Government Ethics, a federal watchdog agency, notes that “the basic criminal conflict of interest statute prohibits government employees from participating personally and substantially in official matters where they have a financial interest” — and that agency can require top officials to divest corporate holdings that create a conflict of interest in a government job. 

 

Quote

A provision inserted into the tax code 35 years ago allows government officials to indefinitely defer all capital gains taxes on such divestment — a tax benefit worth potentially tens of billions of dollars to Musk if he is appointed by Trump to a top government post.

The tax benefit has previously been used by George W. Bush administration officials, including former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, whose divestment from his Goldman Sachs holdings were reportedly worth nearly half a billion dollars. 

 

Spoiler

The U.S. Senate has yet to confirm President Biden’s nominee for a five-year term to head the federal agency that would rule on Musk’s potential conflicts of interest — and the subsequent tax benefits. If the vacancy carries over through the election, a new Trump administration could appoint the replacement. In 2017, Senate Democrats proposed legislation to limit the tax deferral, but the legislation failed to advance.

“The idea of Musk coming in to run some sort of efficiency commission in a second Trump administration poses catastrophic conflicts of interest,” said Walter Shaub, the former director of the U.S. Office of Government Ethics, who battled the Trump administration over conflicts of interests before his 2017 departure from the agency. “I think it’s very likely that in a second Trump administration, it would be a Trump appointee making the decision on whether Elon Musk could have a massive tax break.”

Musk — currently the world’s richest person, with a $250 billion net worth — has been canvassing for Trump relentlessly, including by spending millions on a scheme that critics have said is an elaborate and potentially illegal vote-buying operation. He and his companies stand to benefit from a Trump victory — and already, his wealth has ballooned thanks to the first Trump administration’s tax cuts and accelerated government support of SpaceX.

“Entangled With The Federal Government”
Federal law requires officials to divest from personal business dealings that might conflict with their work. In the executive branch, the rules around disclosure and divestiture of conflicts of interests are directed and enforced by the independent Office of Government Ethics. 

Refusing to divest conflicts of interest could run afoul of U.S. Code 208, which subjects officials to criminal penalties for using their office to advance personal financial interests.

Should Musk join the Trump administration — either as a full-fledged cabinet member or as a chair of a commission — he could be subject to this ethics law as a federal employee, requiring him to potentially sell off his billions of dollars in assets before assuming the role. 

Trump has appeared to go back and forth about a potential role for Musk in his administration, saying in August that “[Musk] is running big businesses and all that” and therefore he didn’t “know how he could do that with all the things he’s got going.” Musk has continued to press the issue, although it’s not fully clear what kind of role he is envisioning.

When he first assumed office in 2017, Trump refused to put the hundreds of businesses he owned in a blind trust or sell off his assets; instead, he gave control over the daily operations of his companies to his sons and a business partner. The move was condemned by Shaub, then the Office of Government Ethics director, for breaking with decades of ethics standards.

Trump’s cabinet members followed suit. At least four appointees maintained their ties to business groups that they may have regulated. 
Don Fox, a former official at the Office of Government Ethics during the Bush and Obama Administrations told APM Reports at the time, “If the boss doesn’t care, why should you, then?”

But Trump’s own holdings pale in comparison to Musk’s sprawling enterprises. 

“This man is so entangled with the federal government… it makes Trump’s own conflicts of interest look small in comparison,” Shaub said.

Last year, SpaceX, Musk’s aerospace and digital technology company, had contracts with 16 different agencies ranging from NASA and the Defense Department to the Department of the Interior. Tesla, Musk’s electric vehicle venture, contracted with the Energy, State, and Defense departments. Altogether, Musk’s companies were awarded $3 billion across nearly 100 different contracts last year — and account for at least $15.4 billion in government funding in the past decade.

Musk “has massive involvement with the government in terms of contracting, there are a lot of ways he could wind up affecting his own financial interests,” said Shaub, explaining that Musk would almost certainly encounter these conflicts if he was appointed to a cabinet position. Beyond his massive portfolio of investments, his companies, SpaceX and Tesla, are frequently funded by, and feuding with, various federal agencies.

Meanwhile, federal agencies have targeted Musk’s companies for a range of incidents of malfeasance, labor violations, and consumer protection issues, leading to at least 20 recent investigations or reviews. 

If Musk were to take a position in the cabinet, he could directly discourage investigations or grant preferable government contracts to his companies on a wide range of issues.

“Obviously, if you get involved in anything having to do with climate change, the automotive industry, electric vehicles, obviously Tesla’s an issue,” said Richard Painter, a University of Minnesota law professor and the former vice chair of the ethics-focused nonprofit Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. And that conflict arises with his other major tech company, SpaceX, around “the NASA program, the space program, any of that.”

“And then there’s X,” Painter continued, discussing Musk’s acquisition of the social media site formerly named Twitter, “if he’s going to hold onto X and social media — decisions about the Federal Communications Commission and all that, he’s gonna have to stay away from.”

Working Around The Rules
Could Musk join Trump’s cabinet without divesting his billions in holdings? It’s been done before.

Industry leaders are frequently invited to join government councils for the industry-specific expertise they may bring to policymaking. These experts often occupy advisory positions and make recommendations for policy — while they continue to operate within their industry. They’re also subject to minimal conflict-of-interest rules.

But Shaub said that the position Musk appeared to be seeking was likely, at the very least, the chair of such an advisory committee — which, he said, are usually classified as “special government employees.” Such officials are subject to the same conflict of interest penalties as full government employees.

“The conflict-of-interest law applies with full force to a special government employee,” said Shaub.

Other industry leaders have similarly tried to avoid divesting from their assets as they joined previous administrations, despite evident impropriety. Billionaire investor Steve Schwarzman, the co-founder and CEO of the Blackstone Group, chaired Trump’s business advisory council as one of Trump’s close outside advisers during his presidency — all while his private equity firm had an interest in administration policies. But the advisory council was not subjected to federal ethics rules applying to government employees.

There’s also a possibility that Trump could grant Musk a waiver exempting him from the ethics rule, allowing him to keep his business dealings even while he works for the government.

Technically, such waivers can only be issued when conflicts of interest are determined to be unlikely to “affect the integrity” of the position. But practically speaking, the Trump White House would have unilateral authority to issue a waiver to Musk, Shaub said.

“Once the waiver is issued, even if it’s inappropriately issued, it counts,” Shaub explained. And the Trump administration would have the authority to do so because, he said, “There’s no one to stop them from doing it.”

A 2018 Senate bill attempted to reinforce the requirements to divest “conflicted assets” for everyone from members of Congress and senior government officials to the president and vice president. The bill would have required officials to sell their “conflicted assets” and reinvest them in Federal Employee Investment Accounts, which are managed by the Treasury. That bill did not advance.

But perhaps the biggest benefit to Musk could come if he follows ethics standards and chooses to divest from his companies. By doing so, he could score an unprecedented tax break.

The tax break that Musk could win if he ultimately divests from his business dealings as a government official was created in 1989 as a way to “minimize the burden” for public servants who were forced to sell off property or investments that posed a conflict of interest with their work. (Musk could only qualify for the tax break if he received a full government employee position like a cabinet secretary — as opposed to a “special” advisory position.)

The Office of Government Ethics can, for any executive branch employee, issue a “certificate of divestiture” when they sell off conflicting business interests. This allows the employee to utilize Section 1043 of the tax code and defer capital gains taxes on the investments they sell — so long as they invest the money in a diversified investment fund, like a mutual fund. Technically, the tax is simply deferred until the new assets are sold. But if they are never sold, “the deferral is permanent,” according to tax attorney Bob Rizzi at the Washington, D.C.-based firm Holland & Knight. 

“One of the key provisions of the code is Section 1043 that allows you to further gain on required divestitures,” Rizzi explained during a recent presentation about executive branch appointments ahead of the 2024 election. “Section 1043 planning is a major part of planning for some of these appointments, and it can be a very welcome opportunity for somebody who is committed to going into the government and divesting and mitigate some of the costs of doing that.”
And there’s no limit on how large the tax break can be, meaning that it can be used to avoid paying taxes on millions, or even billions, of dollars in assets, so long as the money is quickly moved to a mutual fund or other qualifying account.

The Office of Government Ethics notes in a fact sheet that the divestiture program’s tax deferral is “not an employee benefit” and is intended only to “reduce the financial burden of complying with ethics laws.” But experts say many officials see the tax break as a perk. 

“It’s absolutely a nice benefit of government service,” said Painter. “Some people, we thought, wanted to go into government service so they could have the ethics lawyer get them a certificate of divestiture.”

In December 2016, weeks before Trump took office, a group of Senate Democrats took aim at the “little-known tax loophole” that allows cabinet appointees to delay their tax bill indefinitely. The bill, which was aimed at Trump and his appointees, would have limited the amount of capital gains tax they could avoid to $1 million. The bill was abandoned in 2018.

Because of the major financial benefits involved, tax law only allows government employees to defer taxes on business divestments that specifically resolve conflicts of interest.

“I have a hard time imagining how the richest man in the world could possibly divest enough to eliminate conflicts of interest,” Shaub said of Musk. So, as a result, he said, “in a normal world, I would see it as unlikely that he would get a certificate of divestiture.”

But under a second Trump administration, Shaub said, “I think it’s possible that they might do it.” 

Musk has gotten rich in part because he’s avoided large tax bills in the past. Thanks to exploiting tax loopholes, in 2018, Musk paid no federal income tax — and in previous years, he’d paid less than $100,000 on reported income that ranged up to $1 billion. His tax burden also doesn’t reflect the billions he owns in shares in his companies, a financial arrangement that allows the ultrarich to further avoid income taxes.

Musk’s many holdings mean his potential divestment tax break could be immense. Musk’s majority shares in SpaceX are worth tens of billions; he also has $73 billion in Tesla shares. And although X has dropped precipitously in value since Musk’s takeover, his stake in the company is still worth billions.

“I don’t think anybody should issue a certificate of divestiture for billions of dollars,” said Shaub, who emphasized that he supported the divestiture program in other, less extreme cases. “That seems like an abuse of the program.”

But the Office of Government Ethics has doled out big tax breaks to other appointees in the past. In May 2006, former President George W. Bush nominated Henry Paulson, then the CEO of investment firm Goldman Sachs, as Secretary of the Treasury.

Paulson sold off $484 million in Goldman shares upon taking office to avoid holding millions of stock in a multinational investment bank while also running the Treasury Department. And he received an Office of Government Ethics certificate to do so tax-free, avoiding paying likely tens of millions in capital gains tax.

Had Paulson held onto the stock, its value likely would have plummeted two years later during the 2008 financial crisis.

“There would have been at least a $60 million tax on that [divestment], but I got him a certificate of divestiture over at the Office of Government Ethics,” said Painter, who was the chief White House ethics lawyer at the time. “He sold the stock, bought conflict-free assets, and I don’t know if he’s ever paid the tax. I have no idea.”

 

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12872

Posted
Posted
On 10/24/2024 at 10:03 PM, HenryJames said:

Glad the United States government is subsidizing this guy.

IMG_7538.png

 

On 10/25/2024 at 6:38 AM, Captainant said:

Gee whiz, what a shock

https://www.rawstory.com/amp/elon-musk-2669477305-2669477305

(Here's the WSJ coverage if that's more your cup of tea https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/musk-putin-secret-conversations-37e1c187)

Pretty interesting how his takeover of Twitter maps cleanly onto his interactions with russian handlers. First contact by putin was in May'22, he starts buying Twitter in August'22, and by November it's already underway getting turned into a fascist online hangout

 

16 hours ago, Chopper said:

Head of NASA: Doesn't know if reports are true but said it's concerning and should be investigated.

image.png.1fd058e1362ce3b1b603cef1f936beba.png

 

13 hours ago, Chopper said:

drip drip drip

image.png.38758c1b98be8b418c08084fb91f51d7.png

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/25/elon-musk-and-putin-talks-ramped-up-during-twitter-takeover-wsj.html

 


 

image.png.b9461f423f28beb92f519e9db16a3bd5.png

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29347

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Posted

Elon Musk, enemy of 'open borders,' launched his career working illegally:

Quote

PALO ALTO, Calif. — Long before he became one of Donald Trump’s biggest donors and campaign surrogates, South African-born Elon Musk worked illegally in the United States as he launched his entrepreneurial career after ditching a graduate studies program in California, according to former business associates, court records and company documents obtained by The Washington Post.

Musk in recent months has amplified the Republican presidential candidate’s claims that “open borders” and undocumented immigrants are destroying America, broadcasting those views to more than 200 million followers on the site formerly known as Twitter, which Musk bought in 2022 and later renamed X.

What Musk has not publicly disclosed is that he did not have the legal right to work while building the company that became Zip2, which sold for about $300 million in 1999. It was Musk’s steppingstone to Tesla and the other ventures that have made him the world’s wealthiest person — and arguably America’s most successful immigrant.

Musk and his brother, Kimbal, have often described their immigrant journey in romantic terms, as a time of personal austerity, undeterred ambition and a willingness to flout conventions. Musk arrived in Palo Alto in 1995 for a graduate degree program at Stanford University but never enrolled in courses, working instead on his start-up.

Leaving school left Musk without a legal basis to remain in the United States, according to legal experts.

Foreign students cannot drop out of school to build a company, even if they are not immediately getting paid, said Leon Fresco, a former Justice Department immigration litigator.

“If you do anything that helps to facilitate revenue creation, such as design code or try to make sales in furtherance of revenue creation, then you’re in trouble,” Fresco said.

Musk’s freewheeling business approach soon conflicted with Zip2’s hopes of becoming a public company or entering a high-profile merger, which would have subjected it to scrutiny by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, according to former associates.

When the venture capital firm Mohr Davidow Ventures poured $3 million into Musk’s company in 1996, the funding agreement — a copy of which was obtained by The Post — stated that the Musk brothers and an associate had 45 days to obtain legal work status. Otherwise, the firm could reclaim its investment.

“Their immigration status was not what it should be for them to be legally employed running a company in the U.S.,” said Derek Proudian, a Zip2 board member at the time who later became chief executive. Investors agreed, Proudian said: “We don’t want our founder being deported.”

Another large shareholder at the time, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters, said a minor problem drew additional attention to the Musk brothers’ unresolved immigration issues. Musk told co-workers he was in the country on a student visa, according to six former associates and Zip2 shareholders.

“We want to take care of this long before there’s anything that could screw up” the company’s path to an initial public offering, Proudian recalled.

In Elon Musk’s public retelling of his immigration story, he has never acknowledged having worked without proper legal status. In 2013, he joked about being in a “gray area” early in his career. And in 2020, Musk said he had a “student-work visa” after deferring his studies at Stanford.

“I was legally there, but I was meant to be doing student work,” he said in a 2020 podcast. “I was allowed to do work sort of supporting whatever.”

Musk, his attorney Alex Spiro and the manager of Musk’s family office did not respond to emailed requests for comment. U.S. immigration records generally are not open to the public, making it difficult to independently confirm a person’s legal status.

In 2005, Musk acknowledged in a late-night email that he did not have authorization to be in the United States when he founded Zip2. The email, from Musk to Tesla co-founders Martin Eberhard and JB Straubel, was submitted as evidence in a long-since-closed California defamation lawsuit and said he applied to Stanford so he could remain in the United States legally.

“Actually, I didn’t really care much for the degree, but I had no money for a lab and no legal right to stay in the country, so that seemed like a good way to solve both issues,” Musk wrote. “Then the internet came along, which seemed like a much surer bet.”

Musk never enrolled at Stanford. In a May 2009 deposition, he said he called the department chair two days after the start of the semester to say he wasn’t going to attend. In the same deposition, he said he began working at Zip2 — originally called Global Link Information Network — in August or September 1995.

Upon not enrolling, Musk would have had to leave the country, according to legal experts and immigration laws at the time. He would not have been allowed to work.

While overstaying a student visa is somewhat common and officials have at times turned a blind eye to it, it remains illegal.

The revelation that Musk lacked the legal right to work in the United States stands at odds with his recent focus on undocumented immigrants and U.S. border security, among the issues that have led him to spend more than $100 million helping Trump return to the White House. If Trump wins on Nov. 5, both men have said Musk could have a high-profile role in his administration.

On X, Musk has become an avid booster of anti-immigrant rhetoric, falsely accusing Vice President Kamala Harris and other Democrats of “importing voters.” Undocumented immigrants are legally barred from voting. In February, he wrote that “illegals in America can get … insurance, driver’s licenses.”

Musk would have been required to have both to drive a vehicle, which associates attested he frequently did during the time he lacked a legal work permit.

U.S. immigration regulations for foreign students were more lax in the 1990s, before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks prompted an overhaul, according to immigration law experts. Musk, who obtained Canadian citizenship through his mother, would not have needed a visa from the State Department to study at a U.S. university. He could simply show U.S. university enrollment documents to U.S. border officers and enter the United States with student status, legal experts said.

Foreign students enrolled in U.S. degree programs may be authorized to work part time and for limited periods to complete their degree requirements. Adam Cohen, author of “The Academic Immigration Handbook” and an attorney who specializes in employment visas, said Musk could obtain work authorization as a student, but that would have required him to be engaged in a full course of study at Stanford.

Otherwise, “that would have been a violation,” Cohen said. If he didn’t go to school, “he wasn’t maintaining his status.”

Ira Kurzban, an immigration law expert and the author of a legal sourcebook used widely by attorneys and judges, agreed.

Kurzban said the brothers’ subsequent applications for work visas and to become U.S. permanent residents and naturalized citizens would have asked whether they worked in the United States without authorization. “If you tell them you worked illegally in the U.S., it’s highly unlikely you’d get approved,” Kurzban said.

Kimbal Musk has repeatedly acknowledged working in the United States without legal status — describing his experience as evidence of a dysfunctional U.S. system that blocks talented foreigners. In a 2013 onstage interview alongside his brother, he said they were sleeping in the office and showering at the YMCA when they joined the dot-com gold rush.

Then investors began offering them huge sums of money and buying them cars, he said, only to find out that the brothers had no legal permission to work in the United States.

“In fact, when they did fund us, they realized that we were illegal immigrants,” Kimbal said in the 2013 interview.

“Well,” Elon said.

“Yes, we were,” Kimbal said.

“I’d say it was a gray area,” Elon replied, to audience laughter.

“We were illegal immigrants,” Kimbal said flatly.

Kimbal has also said he misled U.S. federal agents to reenter the United States for a crucial investor meeting after visiting his mother in Canada. When U.S. officers searching his luggage at the airport discovered his business cards and California address, they realized he was traveling for work — without authorization.

After they turned him away, he said, he enlisted a friend to drive him over the border, telling officers they were headed to see David Letterman’s show. Officers waved them through and Kimbal made it to the meeting.

“That’s fraud on entry,” said Kurzban, the immigration expert. “That would make him inadmissible and permanently barred from the United States,” he said, unless the penalties were waived.

Kimbal Musk did not respond to requests for comment.

Last month, Elon Musk called himself “extremely pro immigrant, being one myself. However, just as when hiring for a company, we should confirm that anyone allowed into the country is talented, hardworking and ethical.”

But Musk appeared to have benefited from his backers’ initial inattention to his own status, according to former business associates.

“Perhaps naively we never examined whether he was a legal citizen,” said one key investor in Musk’s first company, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the issue. “He had a burning desire to be successful. We were investing in him. … We felt that he was really driven.”

Musk’s fortune has its roots in this period, which fueled his rise in Silicon Valley and provided seed funding for later ventures, including X.com, a predecessor to PayPal. (Musk later revived the name when he bought Twitter.) Musk was chief executive of PayPal until September 2000, when board members ousted him. Two years later, eBay acquired PayPal, earning Musk roughly $176 million, which he used to make later bets on Tesla and SpaceX.

A 2023 authorized biography by Walter Isaacson asserted that the Musks had needed visas and investors at Mohr Davidow Ventures lined them up with an attorney to secure them, but it included few further details. Biographer Ashlee Vance also reported that the investment firm got the brothers visas. Neither reported that Musk had been working without authorization.

Mohr Davidow Ventures did not respond to a request for comment.

Documents obtained by The Post show that Zip2’s executives met with immigration attorney Jocelyne Lew on Feb. 21, 1996, to discuss potential visa pathways for the Musk brothers and another Canadian co-founder. Lew advised the men to downplay their leadership roles with the company and scrub their résumés of U.S. addresses that might suggest they were already living and working in the United States, the documents show.

Lew encouraged Musk to seek another student visa from the University of Pennsylvania, where he had studied as an undergraduate, the documents show. She also directed him to obtain passport-size photos that would allow him to apply to the U.S. “visa lottery,” according to the files.

Lew did not respond to requests for comment.

Proudian, the former Zip2 board member and investor, said the board worried that the founders’ lack of legal immigration status would have to be disclosed in an SEC filing if the company were to go public. He recalled the Musks’ work authorizations coming through around 1997.

A person who joined Zip2’s human resources department in 1997 remembers processing work visas for the Musks and other family members under a category available to Canadians under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

Legal experts said Elon Musk also might have violated the law by persuading his brother to come run the company. A 1986 federal law made it a crime to knowingly hire someone who does not have work authorization. Musk said in 2003 and 2009 that he “convinced” Kimbal to come from Canada to work for his company.

Records filed with the California secretary of state show Elon Musk was the registered agent for Global Link Information Network when it incorporated in November 1995. On Feb. 26, 1996, the company listed Kimbal as president and CEO and Elon as secretary.

“I tried to get a visa, but there’s just no visa you can get to do a start-up,” Kimbal said in a 2021 interview. “I was definitely illegal.”

 

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Captainant

Captainant 27638

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Chopper said:

How it's going ...edit link https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/media/2024/10/26/donald-trump-joe-rogan-interview/75862377007/

image.png.9ebd2220bc3631ac1d335b4f0664929f.png

Yeah seems like a v skippable thing. I'm down to get the cliff notes best hits though once people tear it apart. From the article:

 

They discussed, among other things, how bull riders occasionally die, aspects of concrete and the effects of wind on whales.

“What is happening with the whales?” Rogan asked as Trump disparaged windmills, an alternative form of energy.

“The wind drives whales crazy. … I want to be a whale psychiatrist.”

He also wants to be president, and he hit on several of his campaign’s greatest hits. He disparaged Harris’ intelligence, praised tariffs (“To me the most beautiful word … in the dictionary today is the word tariff. It’s more beautiful than love. It’s more beautiful than anything”) and, why not, once again falsely claimed that he won the 2020 election.

“I don’t want to get you in any disputes, but I won that election so easy,” Trump said, referring to the election he lost to President Joe Biden.

“I want to talk to you about that,” Rogan said, which, in this conversation, amounted to pushback. He did ask Trump why none of his claims of election fraud held up in court, but Trump just fell back on the usual complaints about a bad court system.

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