Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[Chopper 17172]

6 hours ago, jkates said:

It'll be interesting to watch it play out. I've recently listened to several long-form formal interviews or conversations involving Elon and Vivek. I think their concern for the government's financial state is real. Sure, they will play it a certain way in the media, but I expect them to positively affect America's bureaucratic bloat. 

You can't possibly be this stupid and gullible. But you're very convincing. Negged. 

[F250 28714]

12 minutes ago, Chopper said:

You can't possibly be this stupid and gullible. But you're very convincing. Negged. 

Charlie Strong did several long-form formal interviews as to why he could lead Texas to a national championship. Sure his most recent coaching gig was a linebackers coach last year while currently being unemployed and he previously crashed the Texas football program but I think he should replace Sark because he could positively impact the Texas football program.

Yeah Jkates has a Jello brain.

[Captainant 27487]

27 minutes ago, Bevo Num1 said:

This seems like a villain's plot in a bad movie. Not sure how many super smart people want to work 80+ hours for free.

A billionaire using disinformation to steer nations was literally a bond villain plot

 

 

[Captain Ron 12813]

14 hours ago, jkates said:

It'll be interesting to watch it play out. I've recently listened to several long-form formal interviews or conversations involving Elon and Vivek. I think their concern for the government's financial state is real. Sure, they will play it a certain way in the media, but I expect them to positively affect America's bureaucratic bloat. 

Their concern is only how can they fleece the government for more money. They want to cut spending only to direct that money to them.

[NoName 16329]

17 hours ago, jkates said:

It'll be interesting to watch it play out. I've recently listened to several long-form formal interviews or conversations involving Elon and Vivek. I think their concern for the government's financial state is real. Sure, they will play it a certain way in the media, but I expect them to positively affect America's bureaucratic bloat. 

They were so concerned about it they have spent their entire adult life talking about it - right?

Vivek finished Yale law a decade ago. Surely there is a ton of comments about him being the "government spends too much" guy since then, right? Nope. No talk when he was president about reducing foreign aide, changing military, and wants to actually expand into Taiwan to protect them. He didn't offer any actual cost cutting ideas while president outside of getting rid of 75 percent of federal employees which does nothing to actually make any system more efficient. Cutting that much staff does NOTHING to make a system more efficient, in fact across the board cuts make things less efficient almost anywhere. You aren't changing processes or modernizing - you aren't cutting back the under growth, instead you are just clear cutting down the entire forest to reduce the likelihood of forest fires and leading to a million other issues.

Musk is so worried about the ~20 billion in federal subsidies his companies have gotten that he has paid it back out of his vast fortune, right? He's been interested in making all of his companies more effort for his whole career, right? That's why he made himself, the CEO of a company who has more than 100,000 employees, have to sign off on every single hire the company made. That's efficient, right? When your company is shitting the bed financially - which make no mistake they absolutely are - instead of quadrupling down on the business and working even harder to turn it around, he purchased a social media company and has spent countless hours on it. That's not even considering the incredible number of hours he's played on Diablo, literally this year he said he played 14 straight hours and is currently one of the top 20 players in a game that's one of the grindiest games ever. Sure sounds like he cares about efficiency in business to me.

Funny enough these people's entire plan is to basically fire everyone that works for the government. Not reduce waste in process, not modernize, not apply Lean 6 Sigma concepts, not get rid of low performers, not add in AI, not centralize the business - just across the board axing of people - Vivek wants to do it based on if your SSN ends in an even or odd number.

Both them, and you, are not serious people and are not serious about reducing government spending. Estimates are that employer costs - including military plus other federal employees - make up about 10 percent of the total budget.

Haven't seen either of these guys who are "so interested" in the government's financial state talk about the 73 percent of spending that is social security, Medicare, etc and adjusting that. Instead of that chunk they want to focus on the 23 percent that make up discretionary spending, and almost half of that is military or veterans benefits - which they also don't want to touch. So they focus on ~12 percent of spending out of the whole pie instead of the actual large chunks.

These guys have billions and billions between them and they can't spare any money to pay someone to actually come up with ways to review programs across the board to make things more efficient? Not even in the sandboxes they play in (FDA and NASA?) - not at all in the last DECADE? Not in the last four years when the president was from the other party and they could use this to attack him? Not even when one of them ran for president?

Not. Serious. People.

Edited 9 hours ago by NoName

[Captainant 27487]

28 minutes ago, NoName said:

Vivek finished Yale law a decade ago. Surely there is a ton of comments about him being the "government spends too much" guy since then, right? Nope. No talk when he was president about reducing foreign aide, changing military, and wants to actually expand into Taiwan to protect them. He didn't offer any actual cost cutting ideas while president outside of getting rid of 75 percent of federal employees which does nothing to actually make any system more efficient. Cutting that much staff does NOTHING to make a system more efficient, in fact across the board cuts make things less efficient almost anywhere. You aren't changing processes or modernizing - you aren't cutting back the under growth, instead you are just clear cutting down the entire forest to reduce the likelihood of forest fires and leading to a million other issues.

They're just applying MBA business tactics to the US federal government. Slash workforce to reduce costs, and then they can get on with the share buybacks, or something.

[NoName 16329]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

They're just applying MBA business tactics to the US federal government. Slash workforce to reduce costs, and then they can get on with the share buybacks, or something.

The difference is that in businesses like that the bottom line impacts the stock price, leader bonuses and the CEO comp package. You can always go back next year and hire more people or adjust goals or buy back slightly less stock or have lower dividends.

Edit: and to be clear there is NO data driven decision process that says it's better for a company to fire some huge percent of their employees across the board without considering quality and importantance to the company. And PwC, McKinsey, etc cant produce research that says that either.

The only comparison here I can think of would be to lower the tax burden on all Americans. BUT that's not their stated goal, because they don't have one and they don't give a fuck about reducing taxes. There's no "winning" this because both of them uniquely are set to profit, personally and professionally, from less government. More than almost anyone else who could have that job/role.

All anyone has to do is take a slightly critical look at the situation to see they aren't serious - and I know you know that.

They are taking the most obvious, laziest possible way to get to what sets them up personally for success and aren't even trying to make things better for *anyone* else across the board - which they could both easily do. Modernizing NASA and the FDA would be a benefit to anyone and everyone who touches either of those industries. Firing a bunch of the workforce makes it more profitable for people already invested in those industries and makes it pretty clearly worse for those who touch the pharma industry - which is basically everyone in this country at some point in their lives.

But hey - they profit personally and professionally from it so who cares from their standpoint.

Edited 8 hours ago by NoName

[Storm the Field 5274]

16 hours ago, Parliament said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/x-sees-largest-user-exodus-musk-takeover-rcna179793
 

 

Yep. Several of the accounts I followed for worthwhile political takes and business/market news all either went protected or migrated over to BlueSky in the last 10 days. My feed sucks donkey dick now.

I'll still check in on Twitter every now and then for sports news, but my days as an avid reader are done and gone. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Storm the Field

[immamac 42552]

the budget is pretty well known and public. There isn't much "efficiency" to be gained anywhere except military and social security/medicare. Everything else is peanuts. 

What if the plan all along is to make America's Military extremely weak and rely exclusively on the threat of our insane president/arsenal. It works for Russia why won't it work here? 

[immamac 42552]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

[Brisketexan 104733]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

the budget is pretty well known and public. There isn't much "efficiency" to be gained anywhere except military and social security/medicare. Everything else is peanuts. 

What if the plan all along is to make America's Military extremely weak and rely exclusively on the threat of our insane president/arsenal. It works for Russia why won't it work here? 

The plan is to re-arrange shit, and call it unprecedented brilliance.  But it WILL have some components that are real:

1)  Weaken/destroy any government mechanism that contributes to an educated population.

2) Weaken/destroy any government mechanism that helps cities/blue states.

3) "Privatize" numerous government functions in the name of "efficiency, the private sector can do this better," so you can take those items out of the direct tax-funded budget....and nevermind that we'll just be shifting those dollars to spending on contracts with private enterprises....which will just COINCIDENTALLY be run by/affiliated with people in Trump's orbit.

4)  Weaken/destroy any government program/incentive that benefits any business remotely in competition with Elon, Vivek, and anyone else in Trump's orbit.

 

It's just going to be good old fashioned Republican graft, we've seen it before.  It's just going to be on steroids this time.

[MissingInAction 24858]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

They're just applying MBA business tactics to the US federal government. Slash workforce to reduce costs, and then they can get on with the share buybacks, or something.

Ho Li Fuk!

I didn't even consider MBAs taking over. We are so totally boned 

[Brisketexan 104733]

1 minute ago, MissingInAction said:

Ho Li Fuk!

I didn't even consider MBAs taking over. We are so totally boned 

Do you even Six Sigma, bro?  We just need to maximize synergies, and treat a non-profit enterprise that has a mission totally different than a for-profit enterprise as if it WAS a for-profit enterprise and hey.....if our oligarchs end up reaping massive profits from that, well, gosh, that's just serendipity.

[MissingInAction 24858]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Do you even Six Sigma, bro?  We just need to maximize synergies, and treat a non-profit enterprise that has a mission totally different than a for-profit enterprise as if it WAS a for-profit enterprise and hey.....if our oligarchs end up reaping massive profits from that, well, gosh, that's just serendipity.

We need to workshop this. Let's get Chad in here with the white board.

Where are my fucking dry erase markers!?!?

Can't wait for my dick to be monetized.

Edited 6 hours ago by MissingInAction

[jkates 316]

7 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Their concern is only how can they fleece the government for more money. They want to cut spending only to direct that money to them.

While I don't think the goal of Vivek or Elon is to maximize their wealth via this DOGE, I also don't care all that much if, in the end, the government spending gets a big haircut. 

[Foosters 17763]

6 minutes ago, jkates said:

While I don't think the goal of Vivek or Elon is to maximize their wealth via this DOGE, I also don't care all that much if, in the end, the government spending gets a big haircut. 

Military, SS, or Medicare. Which one?

[jkates 316]

38 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Military, SS, or Medicare. Which one?

Why not all? 

[MissingInAction 24858]

1 minute ago, jkates said:

Why not all? 

[Felix 601]

7 minutes ago, jkates said:

Why not all? 

Ignorance is bliss.

[Brisketexan 104733]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

Military, SS, or Medicare. Which one?

 

34 minutes ago, jkates said:

Why not all? 

Personally, I LOVE this approach.  Truly, I do.  Cut it all.

Send retirees out onto the streets.  Cut off medical care for the olds and the poor.  Have them die in their homes/on the street because there's no funds to pay for easy medical treatments.  Keep it coming.  MORE.  Ratchet up the suffering, then remove the governor on the "Sufferator 5000," so it can run past redline speeds.

This is what the people want, and voted for.  Let them get it.

But....even jkates knows that as millions get poorer and suffer.....Elon and Vivek will see their wealth rise exponentially.  Because austerity always simultaneously buttfucks the poor and middle class, and enriches the upper tier.  Always. 100% of the time.

[workswithseed 2036]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Personally, I LOVE this approach.  Truly, I do.  Cut it all.

Send retirees out onto the streets.  Cut off medical care for the olds and the poor.  Have them die in their homes/on the street because there's no funds to pay for easy medical treatments.  Keep it coming.  MORE.  Ratchet up the suffering, then remove the governor on the "Sufferator 5000," so it can run past redline speeds.

This is what the people want, and voted for.  Let them get it.

But....even jkates knows that as millions get poorer and suffer.....Elon and Vivek will see their wealth rise exponentially.  Because austerity always simultaneously buttfucks the poor and middle class, and enriches the upper tier.  Always. 100% of the time.

I should look into the homeless orgs, and see how much they get from taxes, and see how many homeless have been homed. I could probably find other,like a Florida woman hacked and stole 1.4m, bit seriously, govt. is so much better.

 

https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fkval.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fportland-homelessness-non-profit-director-sentenced-after-stealing-more-than-300k-in-funds&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

https://www.portland.gov/auditor/audit-services/news/2022/6/7/fraud-hotline-report-funds-wasted-veteran-apartment-complex

[Brisketexan 104733]

Just now, workswithseed said:

I should look into the homeless orgs, and see how much they get from taxes, and see how many homeless have been homed. I could probably find other,like a Florida woman hacked and stole 1.4m, bit seriously, govt. is so much better.

 

https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fkval.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fportland-homelessness-non-profit-director-sentenced-after-stealing-more-than-300k-in-funds&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

https://www.portland.gov/auditor/audit-services/news/2022/6/7/fraud-hotline-report-funds-wasted-veteran-apartment-complex

Cool, cool.  First, that's literally NONE of the big ticket programs mentioned above.  Second, presuming that every single federal dollar spent on addressing homelessness is "wasted," we're talking about .00000000000001% of the budget (or some similarly ridiculously small number).  It's akin to the amount of money my household spends on Finnish blueberry sauce per year (around $4).  Eliminating that expenditure would do functionally zero to improve my household's financial position.

Medicare and SS and the military are where the money is at.   Everything else is Finnish blueberry sauce.

CUT THE BIG STUFF.  DO IT.

[workswithseed 2036]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, cool.  First, that's literally NONE of the big ticket programs mentioned above.  Second, presuming that every single federal dollar spent on addressing homelessness is "wasted," we're talking about .00000000000001% of the budget (or some similarly ridiculously small number).  It's akin to the amount of money my household spends on Finnish blueberry sauce per year (around $4).  Eliminating that expenditure would do functionally zero to improve my household's financial position.

Medicare and SS and the military are where the money is at.   Everything else is Finnish blueberry sauce.

CUT THE BIG STUFF.  DO IT.

Military is bigger, would  be cool to go back before standing armies again, but people love a Military parade. 

Without government, people will live on the streets. I show a small scale version of that it doesn't even help people now, well, that's not exactly what I'm talking about.

[Brisketexan 104733]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Without government, people will live on the streets. I show a small scale version of that it doesn't even help people now, well, that's not exactly what I'm talking about.

Even you aren't that stupid.  Surely.

SS: the income source DEPENDED on by millions of elderly to keep them in shelter, food, etc.  Slash that income....and yes, people end up out on their ass.

Medicare: the primary source of payment for medical care for millions of elderly.  Take it away....they don't have access to care.  Old people with lost access to medical care = dying old people.

Programs to address "homelessness" are addressing people who have already failed/are on or over the edge.  That's entirely different than SS.  Even you know that.  It's not just "not exactly" what I'm talking about when I refer to a foundational source of income for millions of people....it's not even close to what we're talking about.

[Foosters 17763]

9 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Military is bigger, would  be cool to go back before standing armies again, but people love a Military parade. 

Without government, people will live on the streets. I show a small scale version of that it doesn't even help people now, well, that's not exactly what I'm talking about.

what could go wrong?

[bolverk 29428]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Even you aren't that stupid.  Surely.

SS: the income source DEPENDED on by millions of elderly to keep them in shelter, food, etc.  Slash that income....and yes, people end up out on their ass.

Medicare: the primary source of payment for medical care for millions of elderly.  Take it away....they don't have access to care.  Old people with lost access to medical care = dying old people.

Programs to address "homelessness" are addressing people who have already failed/are on or over the edge.  That's entirely different than SS.  Even you know that.  It's not just "not exactly" what I'm talking about when I refer to a foundational source of income for millions of people....it's not even close to what we're talking about.

I'll sit here contently with a clear conscience when seedboy's mom is living in a bar ditch.

[workswithseed 2036]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Even you aren't that stupid.  Surely.

SS: the income source DEPENDED on by millions of elderly to keep them in shelter, food, etc.  Slash that income....and yes, people end up out on their ass.

Medicare: the primary source of payment for medical care for millions of elderly.  Take it away....they don't have access to care.  Old people with lost access to medical care = dying old people.

Programs to address "homelessness" are addressing people who have already failed/are on or over the edge.  That's entirely different than SS.  Even you know that.  It's not just "not exactly" what I'm talking about when I refer to a foundational source of income for millions of people....it's not even close to what we're talking about.

It's a ponzi scheme, that takes from the young. It's literally what all boomers get made fun of doing.  "I've got mine." mentality. You think that's good? I mean housing has almost gone out the window for most.

[Brisketexan 104733]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

It's a ponzi scheme, that takes from the young. It's literally what all boomers get made fun of doing.  "I've got mine." mentality. You think that's good? I mean housing has almost gone out the window for most.

Oh, hey, you must have missed the part where I said I am ALL FOR IT.  END IT.  RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW.  Being that people dependent on various forms of SS overwhelmingly voted for this outcome, I say bring it on.  And one of 'em better come to be bitching when they got exactly what they asked for.

See, I USED to believe that it was a good and decent social policy to provide basics for the elderly, even if it cost the rest of us a bit here and there.  But no longer.  They want it to be "every man for himself, 100%."  Cool.  I'm set up just fine, so no worries for me.

[workswithseed 2036]

10 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'll sit here contently with a clear conscience when seedboy's mom is living in a bar ditch.

Are you saying more taxes to a failed program would have saved her?! If only.

[NoName 16329]

33 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I should look into the homeless orgs, and see how much they get from taxes, and see how many homeless have been homed. I could probably find other,like a Florida woman hacked and stole 1.4m, bit seriously, govt. is so much better.

 

https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fkval.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fportland-homelessness-non-profit-director-sentenced-after-stealing-more-than-300k-in-funds&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

https://www.portland.gov/auditor/audit-services/news/2022/6/7/fraud-hotline-report-funds-wasted-veteran-apartment-complex

Just to be clear that is 0.00002% of the federal budget. That's the equivalent of stealing 0.02 cents from someone making a hundred thousand dollars. It's a dumb argument and you know that.

Focusing on that is a waste of everyone's time when 73 percent of the 6.75 trillion dollar budget is mandatory spending and 50 percent of the remaining 22 percent is military spending.

Focusing on the budget without addressing social security, Medicare, or military is choosing to focus on about 12 percent of the budget and ignoring the other about 83 percent.

It's fucking dumb and once again, an extremely not serious way to look at the situation.

Here's an handful of actual ideas that save everyone money: focus on fraud in Healthcare, get fully rid of no bid contracts, write penalties into contracts when contractors blow deadlines, modernize the WIC program back end, funnel NIH dollars into programs who show historical success, remove waste from military programs.

[F250 28714]

This is one of the dumbest fucking conversations I've seen on this board. lol

 

[NoName 16329]

16 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

It's a ponzi scheme, that takes from the young. It's literally what all boomers get made fun of doing.  "I've got mine." mentality. You think that's good? I mean housing has almost gone out the window for most.

You forgot the ~$26 billion illegal immigrants paid into it without getting any value.

You must be like 22. No one who has ever lived in the real world acts this way or believes that.

[workswithseed 2036]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, hey, you must have missed the part where I said I am ALL FOR IT.  END IT.  RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW.  Being that people dependent on various forms of SS overwhelmingly voted for this outcome, I say bring it on.  And one of 'em better come to be bitching when they got exactly what they asked for.

See, I USED to believe that it was a good and decent social policy to provide basics for the elderly, even if it cost the rest of us a bit here and there.  But no longer.  They want it to be "every man for himself, 100%."  Cool.  I'm set up just fine, so no worries for me.

As decent as this. Pretty apt parable.

[workswithseed 2036]

1 minute ago, NoName said:

You forgot the ~$26 billion illegal immigrants paid into it without getting any value.

You must be like 22. No one who has ever lived in the real world acts this way or believes that.

Yeah, literally taken from them. They'll see nothing in return. It's shameful.

[elfenix 34190]

4 hours ago, immamac said:

It works for Russia why won't it work here? 

[Captainant 27487]

Lmfao even his artificial creations don't like him

Fortune: Elon Musk’s AI turns on him, labels him ‘one of the most significant spreaders of misinformation on X’

 

Quote

Elon Musk might be in charge of the business of Grok, but the artificial intelligence has seemingly gone into business for itself, labeling Musk as one of the worst offenders when it comes to spreading misinformation online.

User Gary Koepnick asked the AI which person spreads the most information on Twitter/X—and the service did not hesitate in pointing a finger at its creator.

“Based on various analyses, social media sentiment, and reports, Elon Musk has been identified as one of the most significant spreaders of misinformation on X since he acquired the platform,” it wrote, later adding “Musk has made numerous posts that have been criticized for promoting or endorsing misinformation, especially related to political events, elections, health issues like COVID-19, and conspiracy theories. His endorsements or interactions with content from controversial figures or accounts with a history of spreading misinformation have also contributed to this perception.”

The AI also pointed out that because of Musk’s large number of followers and high visibility, any misinformation he posts is immediately amplified and gains legitimacy among his followers.

This, it said, “can have real-world consequences, especially during significant events like elections.”

Grok did note that the definition of misinformation is somewhat subjective and often depends on the ideological stance of the reader. And it added, late in its answer, that there are many actors, bots and more that spread misinformation.

The smackdown from his own AI system, ironically, came soon after Musk touted the system to his followers in a tweet reading “Use Grok for answers that are based on up-to-date info!”

Grok itself, it’s worth noting, was accused of spreading misinformation about state ballots in August, prompting the company to make changes to its algorithm.

 

[jkates 316]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Personally, I LOVE this approach.  Truly, I do.  Cut it all.

Send retirees out onto the streets.  Cut off medical care for the olds and the poor.  Have them die in their homes/on the street because there's no funds to pay for easy medical treatments.  Keep it coming.  MORE.  Ratchet up the suffering, then remove the governor on the "Sufferator 5000," so it can run past redline speeds.

This is what the people want, and voted for.  Let them get it.

But....even jkates knows that as millions get poorer and suffer.....Elon and Vivek will see their wealth rise exponentially.  Because austerity always simultaneously buttfucks the poor and middle class, and enriches the upper tier.  Always. 100% of the time.

Your envy of rich people is weird but entertaining.

[bolverk 29428]

https://bsky.app/profile/bestofdyingtwit.bsky.social/post/3laxaewyrws2k

[Brisketexan 104733]

26 minutes ago, jkates said:

Your envy of rich people is weird but entertaining.

I mean, being that by most measures, I'm one of them....okay.  I'll make out fine in the shitshow/austerity era.  I'll probably be able to leverage it to my advantage.  Sure, not as much as the donor class will (I don't have "purchase carte blanche favors from the US government" money), but I'll do well.  I'm just mature enough and have enough perspective to know that changes that benefit mostly people like me and above, and hurt mostly people of less means than me, fucking suck and are socially counter-productive.

[workswithseed 2036]

32 minutes ago, jkates said:

Your envy of rich people is weird but entertaining.

The dude has helped people, and homed people. He's not some college commie, who hates the rich but also doesn't help people. He has put his money where is mouth is.