Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[ultimaton 2985]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

Twister must be running out of money 

[Parliament 14628]

5 hours ago, NoName said:

Totally normal things  with totally normal people

90 minutes of those guys saving the World.

 

[atomheartbevo 90692]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Twister must be running out of money 

Maybe the advertisers listened to him and so he's chasing the Alex Jones "Gold Coins and Male Supplemental Vitamins Extravaganza".

I doubt the CEO was happy that Elmo, and it was him, brought Jones back to twitter.

[Brisketexan 107047]

Maybe the advertisers listened to him and so he's chasing the Alex Jones "Gold Coins and Male Supplemental Vitamins Extravaganza".
I doubt the CEO was happy that Elmo, and it was him, brought Jones back to twitter.

Yeah…pretty sure Disney REALLY doesn’t want its ads popping up next to a guy accusing the parents of dead kids of being crisis actors. Just a hunch.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Twister must be running out of money 

Ok, maybe. But hear me out. Maybe there is another perspective. It's hard to believe, but just go with it. Suspend your disbelief for a moment.

Perhaps, and I know this seems really wild. Perhaps, no no no, I know, just maybe, 100 to 1, but it's possible.

Maybe the world's richest man isn't broke.

 

[Francisco 2.0 32621]

6 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Maybe the world's richest man isn't broke.

No, but he's cash poor, and he's about out of options:

 

Quote

Because of the way that Musk operates, the social-media company's troubles pose a threat to his whole business empire. Despite being the second-wealthiest person in the world, Musk is curiously cash poor. He doesn't take a salary from Tesla, and while he owns about 20% of the EV maker, public documents filed in March show that about 63% of those shares are "pledged as collateral to secure certain personal indebtedness." You know, like the private jets.

This is why using Tesla stock to source cash all the time gets hairy. If Tesla shares fall below a certain level, the banks can call in those personal loans — leaving Musk on the hook. And the quickest way for Tesla's stock to drop off a cliff is for investors to get wind of a big Musk sale. And of course, he needs to make sure that he still holds on to all the Tesla stock he's pledged as collateral to the banks. Unfortunately, though, the easiest way for Musk to fill the gaping hole in Twitter's balance sheet is to sell Tesla shares. You see how this could be a problem.

 

Quote

Sometimes, when he's really hard up, Musk borrows money from SpaceX — a private company that lost a combined $1.5 billion in 2021 and 2022. He borrowed $1 billion from the company when he bought Twitter and paid the loan back within a month — but he had to sell $4 billion worth of Tesla shares to do it. Using his wealth and power, Musk has built himself a separate reality where there are no real consequences for the risks he takes, but keeping the lights on at Twitter — sorry, X — is testing its limits more and more by the day.

All of this money-incinerating activity, from the beginning of the Twitter deal to this very moment, could not have come at a worse time. For decades, Musk has operated in a placid economy where interest rates were near zero. But Musk started buying Twitter right as central banks around the world began hiking rates in an effort to combat inflation. That means the cost of servicing his debt is getting more expensive, making it harder for him to get new loans. It's a shift so dramatic that it could rip a hole in the universe through which Musk's reality collapses into our own.

 

Quote

"The only thing we're waiting on is for Elon to cry uncle," said Bryan. In her view — which is based on 30 years of investing in distressed assets — any equity in the company has already been erased by Musk's antics. As for the debt, the banks have been unable to unload it at 85 cents on the dollar, and she thinks they'll be lucky to get 40 cents. By all accounts, Twitter has a credit problem, and Bryan said that calls for a run-of-the-mill restructuring solution: bankruptcy. When Musk tires of robbing Peter to pay Paul, he will default on his Twitter loans. Then the consortium of banks that own the debt can accelerate it — standard debt agreements come with clauses that allow lenders to force a borrower to pay all of an outstanding loan back if certain requirements (like payment) are not met. Once that wire is tripped, Twitter can declare bankruptcy.

"There is money that has been set on fire that is never coming back," Bryan said. "We're in the salvage business with Twitter. In a restructuring, with Elon gone, you can have people looking at it. They can foresee that Elon didn't do anything that can't be reversed and offer instant relief."

Will it be enough to save Twitter/X? Maybe not, but it's the company's only and best hope.

 

 

[Dnaguy 12724]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:44 AM, Chooky said:

His old co host, Nick Mullen, is also hilarious. Their steven Segal reviews were gold.

This?

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

6 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Ok, maybe. But hear me out. Maybe there is another perspective. It's hard to believe, but just go with it. Suspend your disbelief for a moment.

Perhaps, and I know this seems really wild. Perhaps, no no no, I know, just maybe, 100 to 1, but it's possible.

Maybe the world's richest man isn't broke.

 

Twitter running out of money ≠ Elon is broke 

If you’d like me to explain why, we can set up an appointment for later today 

[Captainant 28609]

Just now, Neonmoon said:

Twitter running out of money ≠ Elon is broke 

If you’d like me to explain why, we can set up an appointment for later today 

BagOfHammers is doing his cute troll move where he tell us not to believe our lying eyes, just like how elmo definitely wasn't explicitly endorsing "hitler was right about some stuff you know..." according to hammers. He's been on a roll lately

[atomheartbevo 90692]

1 hour ago, Dnaguy said:

This?

Wow, disappointing that Dale Dye was in that, but looks like he was in a handful of Steven Seagal movies, so maybe it was a decent paycheck for him.

[NoName 17203]

15 hours ago, NoName said:

 

guess it then was re-added lol

 

[Fastbreak 4057]

I’m begging to think that Elon bought twitter to keep the chaos and Russian disinformation going. Maybe the old Twitter core was close to removing all the Russian bots.

Or maybe he is just an idiot.

[Nicole44 22326]

Growing up in the Panhandle I keep thinking how people there would react to his cyber “truck.” Space Cowboy? It looks like something out of the Running Man. A dystopian truck from an 80’s movie. It’s that awful. The DeLorean in Back to the Future looks cooler by comparison. 
I never ever liked him. Everything he has done in the last couple of years just confirmed why I did not/do not/will never. 👎🏼 

[Captainant 28609]

23 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

Or maybe he is just an idiot.

Perhaps even a useful idiot 

[High Plains Drifter 11195]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

guess it then was re-added lol

 

 

If those community notes are correct, that guy is not a journalist.

Newsflash, having a twatter account does not make one a journalist.

 

 

[NoName 17203]

3 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

If those community notes are correct, that guy is not a journalist.

Newsflash, having a twatter account does not make one a journalist.

straight up, he's not a journalist.

https://news.yahoo.com/sbu-responds-musks-comments-arrest-153200422.html
 

Quote

 

Lira, who holds dual citizenship of Chile and the United States, was arrested in Kharkiv Oblast for promoting Russian aggression in Ukraine and spreading pro-Kremlin ideas on social media.

An investigation found that Lira’s videos denied Russian war crimes and justified Russian aggression. Lira claimed that Ukraine was shelling its own territory and a neo-Nazi regime ruled the country.

Such activities constitute a criminal offense under Article 436-2 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine (justification, recognition as lawful, denial of Russia's armed aggression against Ukraine, glorification of its participants).

The SBU documented Lira's activities and served the blogger with a notice of suspicion. In May 2023, the court imposed on him a preventive measure in the form of detention with the possibility of bail. He was initially released on house arrest after posting the bail, but was arrested again in July when he attempted to cross the border into Hungary on his motorcycle.

 

this is from when he was arrested back in May: https://www.thedailybeast.com/gonzalo-lira-red-pill-dating-coach-who-is-accused-of-shilling-for-putin-is-arrested-in-ukraine

‘Red Pill’ Dating Coach Gonzalo Lira, Accused of Shilling for Putin, Is Arrested in Ukraine

 

Quote

 

Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) has arrested Gonzalo Lira—a dual citizen of the United States and Chile, who has been living in Kharkiv—on charges of producing pro-Russian propaganda.

Lira, a prolific and controversial online personality, is accused of creating and disseminating materials that justify Putin’s armed aggression against Ukraine. He is facing the possibility of being imprisoned for five to eight years.

Lira, a former online dating coach, was arrested on May 1 at his residence in Kharkiv, according to two sources familiar with the investigation. Ukrainian authorities claim that the search of his home revealed additional evidence of his unlawful activities, including data found on his cell phone and his computer.

The SBU announced on Friday that an unnamed foreign blogger had been arrested and the Kharkiv prosecutor’s office posted a blurred video of Lira on its YouTube channel. The Daily Beast has obtained a longer version of the footage, which shows the arrest and raid on his home.

Lira was charged under article 436-2 of Ukraine’s Criminal Code, parts 2 and 3, pertaining to wartime propaganda. He will remain in jail as the case moves forward, and an active investigation is still underway.

An SBU spokesperson said that after the start of the full-scale invasion, “the blogger was one of the first to support the Russian invaders and glorify their war crimes... Additionally, in his comments he disputed the details of Russian missile attacks on Ukrainian cities and mass murders of civilians.”

Lira is a blogger, who made a transition from offering sleazy “dating coach” advice to men as “Coach Red Pill,” to providing propaganda fodder for the Russian state media that eagerly picked up and disseminated his multiple dispatches from Ukraine. In his videos, Lira insulted the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, and described Ukrainians defending their land from Russian invaders as “armed criminals.” Ukrainian authorities allege that Lira filmed Ukrainian soldiers, making a specific effort to capture their likeness and attempting to discredit their military service.

Lira also charted his efforts to follow American reporters covering the conflict in Ukraine, describing them as “system pig journalists” and revealing their whereabouts in specific hotels. Lira commented: “They’re here to report how they led Ukraine up the garden path and now Ukraine is f’d! These are the people pushing the narrative, so you can see them. See them real good!”

American journalist Sarah Ashton-Cirillo, who is currently serving in Ukraine’s Armed Forces, said she is slated to be one of the witnesses in the criminal case against Lira. She told The Daily Beast, “This justice has been a long time coming. Obviously, when I was accused by Maria Zakharova and the Russian MFA of being complicit in Gonzalo Lira's disappearance last year, it set off a lynch mob of his supporters accusing me of murder. His arrest this week shows that Ukrainian officials don’t bow to popular pressure when a factual investigation leads to the truth.”

Ashton-Cirillo added, “I’ve already given my sworn statement to SBU about Gonzalo Lira several months ago and expect to be called as a witness in his prosecution.”

Lira blamed Ukraine for being attacked by Russia, describing the ongoing war as “one of the most brilliant invasions in military history.” He defended Putin’s motives, claiming that the Russians were taking special pains to avoid damaging civilian infrastructure or harming civilians and predicting that Ukraine would flourish under Russia’s control.

He disseminated a number of debunked conspiracy theories, including Russian allegations of locating “American bioweapons labs” in Ukraine. Sources involved in the investigation say that Lira’s appearance on The Donbass Devushka’s show prompted additional scrutiny of Lira’s activities, which were being monitored after his questioning and release last year.

The online personality posted a slew of videos and commentary on YouTube, Telegram, and Twitter, attempting to pin the blame on Ukraine for the strikes conducted by the Russian Federation. Russian state TV touted his video blogs as valuable reporting by an unbiased observer, featuring them on various shows and praising his efforts. Lira’s YouTube and Telegram following exceeded a combined 300,000 subscribers.

 

 

[bolverk 30383]

13 minutes ago, NoName said:

Lira, a former online dating coach

Tracks that King of the Incels Elmo would think a former "pick-up artist" is a journalist.

[texasdago 7772]

On 12/9/2023 at 2:05 PM, chainsaw said:

Stavros's body count is high, which is impressive considering his build.

Reminds me of Charlie Shannon.  I used to see him when he was early-ish in his career and he would go practice at the Comedy Workshop in Houston... we were dumb high school kids and he would draaaag the audience given the chance.

RIP = https://www.austinchronicle.com/arts/2004-01-02/191585/ 

Edited December 11, 2023 by texasdago

[C-Man 27840]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/technology/elon-musks-luck-has-finally-run-out/ar-AA1lhhxz

Quote

Elon Musk was on a heater.

From 2019 to 2022, it seemed as if every gamble that Musk took was paying off. Tesla was consistently profitable for the first time in its history and its stock soared as its massive new Shanghai plant ramped up production. SpaceX rockets captivated the public's attention — even when they blew up, everyone still clapped. Accusations of corruption and self-dealing slid right off Musk's back. Musk could do and say anything he wanted and success followed: He was even named Time's 2021 Person of the Year.

Then Musk did what every risk-addicted blackjack player inevitably does: pushed his luck too far. Overconfidence, confirmation bias, and delusions of control led to a string of bad decisions — and BOOM — Elon's empire is in trouble again.

The change of fortune was apparent at The New York Times Dealbook Conference last week. During an interview with host Andrew Ross Sorkin, the recognizable tells that Musk's hand had gone cold were everywhere. He raged at the very people who will dictate Twitter's fate, seemed baffled by key questions about the future of his companies, and offered non-apologies for his unhinged, antisocial behavior online. Sorkin suggested Musk's brain is like a storm, but it sounded more like two cats fighting to get out of a duffle bag.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what it looks like when Musk realizes he's in a jam entirely of his own making. I know, because we've seen it before, including back in 2018, when he nearly flew Tesla into a mountain. He may find a way to ward off calamity, as he did then, but this jam is much tighter than the last one. Musk has to contend with over $13 billion of debt still weighing down a swiftly sinking Twitter, Tesla's profits shrinking because of a lack of demand and new products, and a world that is generally sick of his schtick. In Muskland, everything is connected by money — problems at one business bleed into the others. That's why Elon is being exceptionally obstinate. It's not just your imagination — his luck has changed.

2018, the first annus horribilis

If you want to understand Musk's latest unhinged behavior, it's helpful to understand the reasons he's lashed out in the past. So let me take you back to the wild ride that was 2018: Musk had bet Tesla's future on the Model 3. With an intended starting price of $30,000, the car was supposed to make EVs accessible to drivers who couldn't afford luxury prices. But Tesla's investors got increasingly restless as the model became trapped in what Musk called "production hell."

The pressure to get the Model 3 out clearly weighed on Musk, and he was not subtle about it. On Tesla's first-quarter earnings call, he cut off one analyst's basic financial question, saying that "boring, bonehead questions are not cool." He got so frustrated that he ditched the analysts entirely and started taking questions from fans posting on YouTube. Eventually, he even begged skeptical Tesla investors to "please, sell our stock." When Musk is at his most hungry for cash, he tends to bite the hand that feeds.

Musk also became more active on Twitter around this time, often with erratic results. When a professional diver complained that Musk was distracting from efforts to rescue a children's soccer team that had been trapped in a cave in Thailand, Musk called the diver a "pedo guy" and harassed him on Twitter. He used the platform to whine about the media, attack investors betting against Tesla's stock, and even tweeted that he would be taking Tesla private at the price of $420 a share when there was no such deal in place. Tesla was — as Musk later admitted — "near death," and summer's "production hell" was about to turn into autumn's "logistics hell."

Tesla's salvation came in the form of the Chinese Communist Party. In 2019, as executives were fleeing Tesla and the company continued to bleed cash, Musk struck a deal to build a factory in Shanghai. From permitting to construction to opening, the Shanghai Gigafactory was built in just 168 working days. Skeptical observers — myself included — were blindsided. What we failed to appreciate was the staggering power of the CCP when it's aggressively pushing to meet a single goal. When the party said Tesla could build the factory there, that meant immediately.

Generally, there are two different lessons a person can take from surviving a brush with near ruin. They can learn to be more cautious, or they can decide that they are indestructible and tempt fate.

Without China, Tesla would not have finally turned into a "real car company," in Musk's own words. He dodged destruction and started to settle down and focus on other projects, like Starlink. Sure, he was still wilding out on Twitter, but at least he wasn't bawling to Rolling Stone about how badly he needs a girlfriend to be happy. At last, it seemed the Musk universe had found some kind of frenzied equilibrium.

Generally, there are two different lessons a person can take from surviving a brush with near ruin. They can learn to be more cautious, or they can decide that they are indestructible and tempt fate. I don't think I need to tell you which path Musk chose.

All of Elon world is connected

Say what you want about him, but Elon Musk has ambition. On top of the world in early 2022, Musk decided that he had the power to single-handedly "fix" the entire concept of free speech. And given that he is hopelessly addicted to the adulation he gets from Twitter, that's where he figured he would start.

We all know this part of the story. Musk started building a stake in Twitter in early 2022, then offered to buy it outright. He offered such a ridiculously high price that the board couldn't say no. A consortium of banks — led by Morgan Stanley — loaned him a large portion of the money. And finally, after trying and then failing to renege on the deal, he bought Twitter. Not long after completing the deal, Musk exhausted all the ideas to turn around the platform and was left with angry former employees, skeptical advertisers, a terrible new name, and a massive pile of debt owed to the Boy Scouts over on Wall Street.

Nowadays, some analysts, like Vicki Bryan, the CEO of the research firm Bond Angle, suspect that Twitter is spending much more than it's able to generate or borrow.

"With the company still burning cash and $1.3-1.5 billion in annual interest due over the past year, I had expected Twitter to live on borrowed time," Bryan wrote in a note to clients. She said that even if Twitter tapped the loans available to it at the beginning of the year, the company may be almost out of options. "The year is over, so Twitter's cash may be nearly if not already dried up—along with Elon Musk's options," Bryan wrote.

Because of the way that Musk operates, the social-media company's troubles pose a threat to his whole business empire. Despite being the second-wealthiest person in the world, Musk is curiously cash poor. He doesn't take a salary from Tesla, and while he owns about 20% of the EV maker, public documents filed in March show that about 63% of those shares are "pledged as collateral to secure certain personal indebtedness." You know, like the private jets.

The year is over, so Twitter's cash may be nearly if not already dried up—along with Elon Musk's options Vicki Bryan, CEO of research firm Bond Angle

This is why using Tesla stock to source cash all the time gets hairy. If Tesla shares fall below a certain level, the banks can call in those personal loans — leaving Musk on the hook. And the quickest way for Tesla's stock to drop off a cliff is for investors to get wind of a big Musk sale. And of course, he needs to make sure that he still holds on to all the Tesla stock he's pledged as collateral to the banks. Unfortunately, though, the easiest way for Musk to fill the gaping hole in Twitter's balance sheet is to sell Tesla shares. You see how this could be a problem.

Sometimes, when he's really hard up, Musk borrows money from SpaceX — a private company that lost a combined $1.5 billion in 2021 and 2022. He borrowed $1 billion from the company when he bought Twitter and paid the loan back within a month — but he had to sell $4 billion worth of Tesla shares to do it. Using his wealth and power, Musk has built himself a separate reality where there are no real consequences for the risks he takes, but keeping the lights on at Twitter — sorry, X — is testing its limits more and more by the day.

Life on Earth 1

All of this money-incinerating activity, from the beginning of the Twitter deal to this very moment, could not have come at a worse time. For decades, Musk has operated in a placid economy where interest rates were near zero. But Musk started buying Twitter right as central banks around the world began hiking rates in an effort to combat inflation. That means the cost of servicing his debt is getting more expensive, making it harder for him to get new loans. It's a shift so dramatic that it could rip a hole in the universe through which Musk's reality collapses into our own.

The outlook for Tesla's business doesn't help him much either. The company's share of the EV market has fallen as competitors have swarmed in. The new entrants prompted Musk to start cutting prices for his cars at the beginning of 2023, and as a result, Tesla's profitability is under serious pressure. The company has plans to expand its manufacturing capability, but no plans to refresh its aging fleet of vehicles. Unless, of course, you count the Cybertuck, which most do not. Last month, Tesla threw a launch event to celebrate the delivery of 10 Cybertrucks. Ten. The least expensive model, priced at $60,000, will not be available until 2025, according to the company. Bryan told me that she expects Musk to continue to siphon money from Tesla in obscure ways — but the question is: How much money will there be to siphon, exactly? And for how long will he need to do that?

There is money that has been set on fire that is never coming back Vicki Bryan

"The only thing we're waiting on is for Elon to cry uncle," said Bryan. In her view — which is based on 30 years of investing in distressed assets — any equity in the company has already been erased by Musk's antics. As for the debt, the banks have been unable to unload it at 85 cents on the dollar, and she thinks they'll be lucky to get 40 cents. By all accounts, Twitter has a credit problem, and Bryan said that calls for a run-of-the-mill restructuring solution: bankruptcy. When Musk tires of robbing Peter to pay Paul, he will default on his Twitter loans. Then the consortium of banks that own the debt can accelerate it — standard debt agreements come with clauses that allow lenders to force a borrower to pay all of an outstanding loan back if certain requirements (like payment) are not met. Once that wire is tripped, Twitter can declare bankruptcy.

"There is money that has been set on fire that is never coming back," Bryan said. "We're in the salvage business with Twitter. In a restructuring, with Elon gone, you can have people looking at it. They can foresee that Elon didn't do anything that can't be reversed and offer instant relief."

Will it be enough to save Twitter/X? Maybe not, but it's the company's only and best hope.

Wall Street should be thoroughly embarrassed. According to reports, the banks holding Twitter's debt are already expecting to take a $2 billion hit when they can finally sell it off. It's not hard to see why. I've said from the jump that there was no money in this Twitter venture, and no principles either. Musk was always going to turn Twitter into a reflection of his limited view, his "Earth" — as he put it during his manic rambling at Dealbook — not a place for the average user. I never expected Musk's fanboys to understand that, but I did expect bankers who are supposed to understand who pays for what in a media business to get it. In the end, there's a real chance Wall Street investors will wind up owning the shambolic mess that is Twitter/X. One of the few blessings to come from this fiasco is that when that happens, at least they'll know what not to do with it.

 

[atomheartbevo 90692]

30 minutes ago, C-Man said:

In the end, there's a real chance Wall Street investors will wind up owning the shambolic mess that is Twitter/X. One of the few blessings to come from this fiasco is that when that happens, at least they'll know what not to do with it.

So they'll sell it back to Jack Dorsey and Co. for $10 billion?

[Celery Man 21109]

On 12/10/2023 at 5:21 PM, NoName said:

Totally normal things  with totally normal people

 

[956 Worldwide 35602]

Advertisers are BACK baby! Tell that to earth! 
 

[Celery Man 21109]

14 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Advertisers are BACK baby! Tell that to earth! 
 

[Celery Man 21109]

lol I mean at first blush it’s just a trash advertisement for a gag gift or actual porn enthusiasts and then you think about it a little bit and realize that a safe haven for sexual predators like X is the perfect platform to advertise normal looking sweatpants that quickly zip down to expose the entire crotch. fuckin a look at the pose on the model, just missing a playground in the background.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Celery Man

[Thetexashammer 1062]

12 hours ago, Captainant said:

BagOfHammers is doing his cute troll move where he tell us not to believe our lying eyes, just like how elmo definitely wasn't explicitly endorsing "hitler was right about some stuff you know..." according to hammers. He's been on a roll lately

You think I'm cute?

[Clintonaldo 2618]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Advertisers are BACK baby! Tell that to earth! 
 

Ok… Elon finally won this round I’m afraid. 

[atomheartbevo 90692]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Advertisers are BACK baby! Tell that to earth! 

BateWorld?

[aggie08 21853]

Let he who has not decided against jerking it because they were too lazy to battle a belt and two layers of clothing throw the first stone.

[ultimaton 2985]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Advertisers are BACK baby! Tell that to earth! 
 

Targeted ad?

[atomheartbevo 90692]

1 hour ago, ultimaton said:

Targeted ad?

Their ad targeting is really fucked up lately, so I'd say no - I keep getting AI-generated bullshit ads from drop-shippers about flashlights that light up the whole world, and glass lamps in the shapes of animals.

[Firemans4Horn 18537]

NSIAP

 

 

[ultimaton 2985]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Their ad targeting is really fucked up lately, so I'd say no - I keep getting AI-generated bullshit ads from drop-shippers about flashlights that light up the whole world, and glass lamps in the shapes of animals.

yeah i was just kidding around

in other musk news:

Tesla again threatens to sue Cybertruck buyers who try to resell the cars

Quote

As we reported a month ago, the Cybertruck-only clause was added to the public version of Tesla's Motor Vehicle Order Agreement Terms & Conditions and then deleted after the lawsuit threat attracted some attention. But now, people who ordered the limited launch edition "Foundation Series" Cybertruck say the order agreement they received from Tesla has the clause added back in.

The clause says Cybertruck buyers must offer the car back to Tesla at a reduced price before any attempt to resell the vehicle within one year of delivery. If Tesla declines to buy the Cybertruck back, the owner could resell it only if Tesla provides "written consent."

"You agree that in the event you breach this provision, or Tesla has reasonable belief that you are about to breach this provision, Tesla may seek injunctive relief to prevent the transfer of title of the Vehicle or demand liquidated damages from you in the amount of $50,000 or the value received as consideration for the sale or transfer, whichever is greater. Tesla may also refuse to sell you any future vehicles," the clause said.

Ars was contacted by one Cybertruck buyer who provided us with a copy of the order agreement he received after submitting a $122,135 order. The agreement received by this buyer contains the resale-lawsuit clause that was deleted last month from the public version of the order agreement. The public version has a rule against quick resales but not a specific lawsuit threat.

The buyer told us that he paid a $250 order fee on Friday and previously paid a $100 reservation fee. According to the order agreement, Tesla doesn't have to refund those types of fees if a buyer cancels a purchase after submitting a completed order.

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21565]

Anyone buying one of those abortions gets zero sympathy from me.  FAFO

[Post Oak 20594]

 

[atomheartbevo 90692]

 

[DDD Dad 14666]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:41 PM, BearMace said:

So, like, kinda midsize mom suv sorta loophole?

More like South Austin's mom sorta loophole.

[MissingInAction 25608]

On 12/10/2023 at 11:52 PM, Thetexashammer said:

Ok, maybe. But hear me out. Maybe there is another perspective. It's hard to believe, but just go with it. Suspend your disbelief for a moment.

Perhaps, and I know this seems really wild. Perhaps, no no no, I know, just maybe, 100 to 1, but it's possible.

Maybe the world's richest man isn't broke.

 

I bet you can do a business real good.

[956 Worldwide 35602]

14 hours ago, ultimaton said:

Targeted ad?

[Ted Lange 16448]

3 hours ago, Post Oak said:

 

[Francisco 2.0 32621]

It's not false advertising, it's free speech:

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/tesla-fights-autopilot-false-advertising-claim-with-free-speech-argument/?comments=1&comments-page=1

 

Quote

Tesla is trying to use a free speech argument to defeat a complaint that it falsely advertised "Autopilot" as an autonomous vehicle system. In response to the California Department of Motor Vehicles allegation about Autopilot, Tesla claims the state laws cited by the DMV violate the US Constitution's First Amendment.

The DMV's July 2022 complaint alleges that Tesla falsely advertises its Autopilot-enabled cars as operating autonomously and seeks a suspension or revocation of Tesla's manufacturer license.

Tesla's response, which was filed last week and published yesterday in a story by The Register, says that several California statutes and regulations cited by the DMV "are unconstitutional under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, Section 2, of the California Constitution, as they impermissibly restrict Tesla's truthful and nonmisleading speech about its vehicles and their features."

 

Quote

One of the state laws that Tesla complains about is Cal. Veh. Code § 24011.5, which says that companies "shall not name any partial driving automation feature, or describe any partial driving automation feature in marketing materials, using language that implies or would otherwise lead a reasonable person to believe, that the feature allows the vehicle to function as an autonomous vehicle."

That California law, according to Tesla, "is facially invalid under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution" and the state Constitution because "a substantial number of the statute's applications impermissibly restrict constitutionally protected speech that is truthful and nonmisleading."

Despite Tesla's free speech claim, the US and state governments can enforce laws banning deceptive practices that harm consumers. "Beyond the category of common-law fraud, the Supreme Court has also said that false or misleading commercial speech may be prohibited," a Congressional Research Service report last year stated. "For constitutional purposes, commercial speech is speech that does no more than propose a commercial transaction or that relates solely to the speaker's and audience's economic interests. Accordingly, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) can regulate deceptive commercial speech without violating the First Amendment."

 

 

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The California DMV's 2022 complaint, alleging deceptive practices that violate state law, said that Tesla "made or disseminated statements that are untrue or misleading, and not based on facts, in advertising vehicles as equipped, or potentially equipped, with advanced driver assistance system (ADAS) features... Instead of simply identifying product or brand names, these 'Autopilot' and 'Full Self-Driving Capability' labels and descriptions represent that vehicles equipped with the ADAS features will operate as an autonomous vehicle, but vehicles equipped with those ADAS features could not at the time of those advertisements, and cannot now, operate as autonomous vehicles."

The agency argued that a Tesla disclaimer, which says the "features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous," is not enough to make the advertising truthful. The "disclaimer contradicts the original untrue or misleading labels and claims, which is misleading, and does not cure the violation," the DMV said.

 

Spoiler

The case is being heard in California's Office of Administrative Hearings. "The DMV launched its investigation in May of 2021. It filed its administrative complaint in July 2022 and spent the next year researching the case before requesting trial date hearing," a Los Angeles Times article said.

Tesla offered several other defenses in addition to its free speech argument. The company said the case being heard by an administrative law judge "violates Tesla's right to a jury trial." Tesla also said the DMV waited too long to make its complaint and that it is thus barred by the applicable statute of limitations.

"Claimant has been aware that Tesla has been using the brand names Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability since Tesla started using those names in 2014 and 2016 respectively... Before Claimant filed the original Accusation in July 2022, Claimant had never told Tesla to stop using these brand names or otherwise indicated to Tesla that these brand names or its advertising were in any way problematic," Tesla said.

Tesla said the DMV investigated Tesla's self-driving advertising in 2014 and 2017 and "chose not to take any action against Tesla or otherwise communicate to Tesla that its advertising or use of these brand names was or might be problematic."

"Claimant is therefore estopped from asserting the myriad false advertising claims in the FAA [First Amended Accusation] against Tesla because it knew of Tesla's use of the brand names Autopilot and Full Self Driving Capability and Tesla's advertising of these packages for over five years and failed to take any action," Tesla wrote. "Tesla relied upon Claimant's implicit approval of these brand names. Claimant is estopped from now attempting to hold Tesla liable for conduct that Claimant implicitly approved."

The DMV complaint cites Tesla statements that were on the company's website in 2021 and 2022. One such marketing statement said, "The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long-distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat."

Another Tesla statement cited by the DMV said, "From Home—All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go." The DMV complaint alleged that Tesla's "acts or omissions are cause for suspension or revocation of Respondent's manufacturer license and special plates under Vehicle Code § 11705."

Separately from the DMV's action, a class-action complaint filed on behalf of shareholders in February 2023 alleges that Tesla and CEO Elon Musk repeatedly made false statements about the capabilities and safety of Autopilot and Full Self-Driving technology. The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has also been investigating Tesla Autopilot safety in response to crashes, including some causing deaths.

 

[JMFP 1126]

21 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Let he who has not decided against jerking it because they were too lazy to battle a belt and two layers of clothing throw the first stone.

[atomheartbevo 90692]

Jalopnik mentioned something out about the truck being stuck in the snow

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The post goes on to claim that there aren’t any pickup points or recovery points on the front of the Cybertruck, which seems like a total oversight on Tesla’s part, if true. In the video below, it looks like the tow straps might be using suspension points as recovery hookups, which is, uh, not great.

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

[Neonmoon 38130]

[Schulz2.0 29308]

[Captainant 28609]

35 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

But I have it on good authority that their pedestrian and emergency vehicle smearing autopilot is all very legal and very cool

[atomheartbevo 90692]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Dumbass incel Qanon types tend to flock together.

Putin could have a heart attack tomorrow and die, and Sacks would be like "This is a very strategic move by Putin, to get a heart attack out of the way.  In my opinion, this means he's good for another 10-20 years."

[HenryJames 67477]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Is that a lot?

[UT_OB1 2267]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I work with someone who was injured along with his friend in a self driving Tesla. His friend had his back broken. He claims that it was on autopilot and the road did not match the map, and the car turned where it shouldn’t have and drove them head on in to lane going the opposite direction. He also says they tried to take over as it was happening but we’re too late. Will be interested to see what happens with their lawsuit.