Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[nbmishoid 949]

10 minutes ago, C-Man said:

EXCLUSIVETesla robot ATTACKS an engineer at company's Texas factory during violent malfunction - leaving 'trail of blood' and forcing workers to hit emergency shutdown button

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12869629/Tesla-robot-ATTACKS-engineer-companys-Texas-factory-violent-malfunction-leaving-trail-blood-forcing-workers-hit-emergency-shutdown-button.html

One in every 21 Giga Texas workers was injured on the job in 2022

 

5% injury rate?  Several multiples of the public rate, and way higher than industry standards, orders of magnitude.   This is clear evidence of a poorly run manufacturing enterprise 

[Redneck Mutha 7954]

29 minutes ago, C-Man said:

EXCLUSIVETesla robot ATTACKS an engineer at company's Texas factory during violent malfunction - leaving 'trail of blood' and forcing workers to hit emergency shutdown button

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12869629/Tesla-robot-ATTACKS-engineer-companys-Texas-factory-violent-malfunction-leaving-trail-blood-forcing-workers-hit-emergency-shutdown-button.html

One in every 21 Giga Texas workers was injured on the job in 2022

 

[atomheartbevo 89651]

2 hours ago, nbmishoid said:

5% injury rate?  Several multiples of the public rate, and way higher than industry standards, orders of magnitude.   This is clear evidence of a poorly run manufacturing enterprise 

Next you will tell us that Eon does not believe in building proper rocket launch pads unless forced to. 

[Gatorubet 30213]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

EXCLUSIVETesla robot ATTACKS an engineer at company's Texas factory during violent malfunction - leaving 'trail of blood' and forcing workers to hit emergency shutdown button.

Happening a bit early, but OK…

[HenryJames 66042]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

EXCLUSIVETesla robot ATTACKS an engineer at company's Texas factory during violent malfunction - leaving 'trail of blood' and forcing workers to hit emergency shutdown button

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12869629/Tesla-robot-ATTACKS-engineer-companys-Texas-factory-violent-malfunction-leaving-trail-blood-forcing-workers-hit-emergency-shutdown-button.html

One in every 21 Giga Texas workers was injured on the job in 2022

 

[C-Man 27216]

[Parliament 14255]

Come on guys.

 

[GenXer 2850]

 

[Captain Ron 12874]

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

It seems Reuters can't get enough Tesla/Musk negative stories lately with the number of articles they have ran:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/austin-we-have-problem-tesla-descends-into-battery-hell-2023-12-21/

 

Quote

Elon Musk says prototypes are easy, production is hell. And when it comes to the long-awaited Cybertruck, Tesla's hell is its pioneering 4680 battery.

Tesla delivered the first of its futuristic stainless steel-plated electric pickups last month and CEO Musk said in October that it would probably hit an annual production rate of a quarter of a million vehicles at some point during 2025.

But Tesla is still a long way off that kind of production pace, and one of the main bottlenecks is the speed it can make the 4680 batteries used in the Cybertruck with its new dry-coating technology, nine people familiar with the matter said.

 

Quote

Tesla's Giga Texas factory is currently churning out 4680 battery cells at rate only sufficient to power about 24,000 Cybertrucks a year, or about a 10th of the required output, according to Reuters calculations based on a combination of public data and unpublished figures provided by sources.

Being able to ramp up battery output massively by dry-coating electrodes - rather than using the slower, more costly wet-coating - was a key factor behind Tesla's forecasts in 2020 that it would more than halve battery costs, cut investment significantly, and create smaller, greener factories.

 

 

Quote

The nine people, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said Tesla had yet to crack dry-coating at the industrial scale needed to make 4680 batteries fast enough to hit its production targets.

The people said dry-coating the anode in the 4680 cells was not problematic but Tesla was struggling with the same technique for the cathode - the most expensive component in a battery.

Dry-coating anodes and cathodes is proven in the laboratory, as well as for smaller energy storage devices such as super capacitors, and even some small batteries, according to Yuan Gao, a battery technology consultant.

"But no one has done it so far for large EV batteries at a mass scale and at a high enough speed. Tesla is the first one to try to commercialize this," said Gao, who has worked in the industry for three decades.

"The challenge is that not only does Tesla have to scale it up and speed up the process, it also must develop its own equipment and tools. It's daunting to say the least," he said.

Tesla did not respond to detailed questions from Reuters for this story.

 

Spoiler

CRACKING THE CODE

According to three of the sources, the 4680 batteries in Cybertrucks include an estimated 1,360 individual cells.

That means Tesla would need to make 340 million cells a year, or almost a million a day, to supply 250,000 of the electric pickups, which are entering a hot market with rivals such as Ford's (F.N) F-150 Lightning, Rivian's (RIVN.O) R1T and an electric Hummer from General Motors (GM.N).

At the moment, Tesla's Austin factory takes about 16 weeks to make 10 million 4680 cells, according to Reuters calculations based on figures from Tesla, verified by the three sources.

That translates to 32.5 million cells a year, or enough for just under 24,000 pickups - and that's only for the Cybertruck.

Tesla also wants to use 4680 batteries to power other vehicles, most notably the $25,000 small car the company is scrambling to launch by the mid-2020s.

Tesla has some limited production capacity for 4680 cells in Fremont, California but its plant there is mainly for pilot production. Panasonic (6752.T), one of Tesla's long-standing battery suppliers, is planning to build at least two plants in the United States but has only just broken ground on the first.

Two of the nine people familiar with the matter believe Tesla's progress with scaling up 4680 production will likely gain steam, especially once it achieves stability with the production know-how on one production line.

They said Tesla had been focusing on establishing robust know-how to produce batteries without flaws first time round. It's a time-consuming process but, "once you crack the code and establish stability, it is like exponential", one of them said.

"Speed would pick up. There is already a lot of traction in dry coating," the person said.

Tesla's battery tsar Drew Baglino said in October that the company was now producing 4680 cells on two production lines in Austin and plans to install a total of eight lines there in two phases, with the last four due to be running in late 2024.

Still, one of the two people said replicating established know-how from one production line to the next is no cakewalk.

The source said only about 5% of cells made on profitable production lines are ditched but scrap rates could shoot up to 30%-50% and hover there for several months as each new line gets going.

One of the sources said Tesla's dry-coating method for cathodes was not proving to be any faster than the old wet process, though scrap rates had dropped to as low as 10% to 20%.

Baglino did not respond to requests for comment for this story.

'GOOEY MESS'

The sources said Tesla was struggling to mix the cathode materials, which include lithium, manganese and nickel, with a binder and stick them to a metallic foil to produce a cathode - without using moisture.

Two of the people said the process worked for small amounts but when Tesla tried to scale it up, a lot of heat was generated and this melted the binder, which one of the sources believed was polytetrafluoroethylene, more commonly known as Teflon.

"If you melt the glue, pretty soon everything will become one big chunk of gooey mess," another of the sources said.

Equally problematic for Tesla are the machines used to coat the metallic foil to produce battery electrodes - equipment which is akin to huge magazine and newspaper printing machines with large rollers, the sources said.

To accelerate cell production, Tesla is trying to coat multiple strips of magnetic foil with active battery materials at the same time, and at high speeds.

That calls for large, wide rollers, as well as applying tremendous force to press the materials onto the foil. But because the rollers are large and wide, applying pressure evenly is proving to be a challenge, the sources said.

And when pressure is not applied evenly, Tesla gets electrodes with uneven surfaces and thickness, which are no use for its battery cells and need to be scrapped, the sources said.

Perhaps more problematic, Tesla's Baglino told a fireside chat at a battery conference in March that Tesla was still building a completely new quality verification system so they could weed out cells with flaws in coating.

One of the sources with knowledge of the matter, said specifically it was about building data infrastructure around Tesla's battery development, manufacturing and in-field use because in some cases the flaws were hidden in the coating and did not show up for a few months down the road.

In other words, Tesla doesn't quite know yet which dry cells are good, and which ones need to be junked, the source said.

 

 

[NoName 16351]

oh no, anyway.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-12-27/elon-musk-s-tesla-is-losing-ev-race-to-china-s-byd

note who isn't on this chart:

+

Spoiler

TSLA delivered 1.82 million vehicles globally in 2023 shy of the 2 million goal Musk set at the start of the year

also the article includes this sick burn from the late Charlie Munger

Quote

“BYD was a miracle,” Munger told the podcast Acquired in an episode that aired in October. He called Wang a genius, saying he kept the company from going broke by working 70-hour weeks, and described him as a fanatical engineer. “The guy at BYD is better at actually making things than Elon is,” he said.

christ, the sales number for BYD is incredible

Quote

For now, Tesla still has BYD beat on key metrics including revenue, income and market capitalization. Analysts at Bernstein expect some of those gaps to close considerably next year — they’re projecting Tesla will generate $114 billion in sales to BYD’s $112 billion.

 

 

Chinese Carmaker Overtakes Tesla as World’s Most Popular EV Maker

this is a long article

Spoiler

China’s BYD Co. bills itself as the biggest car brand you’ve never heard of. It might need a different tagline soon.

The automaker is poised to surpass Tesla Inc. as the new worldwide leader in fully electric vehicle sales. When it does — likely in the current quarter — it will be both a symbolic turning point for the EV market and further confirmation of China’s growing clout in the global automotive industry.

 

In a sector still dominated by more familiar names like Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen AG and General Motors Co., Chinese manufacturers including BYD and SAIC Motor Corp. are making serious inroads. After leapfrogging the US, South Korea and Germany over the past few years, China now rivals Japan for the global lead in passenger car exports. Some 1.3 million of the 3.6 million vehicles shipped from the mainland as of October this year were electric.

“The competitive landscape of the auto industry has changed,” said Bridget McCarthy, head of China operations for Shenzhen-based hedge fund Snow Bull Capital, which has invested in both BYD and Tesla. “It’s no longer about the size and legacy of auto companies; it’s about the speed at which they can innovate and iterate. BYD began preparing long ago to be able to do this faster than anyone thought possible, and now the rest of the industry has to race to catch up.”

The passing of the EV sales crown also reflects the shift in competitive dynamics between Tesla’s Elon Musk, the world’s richest executive, and BYD’s billionaire founder Wang Chuanfu.

Whereas Musk has been warning that not enough consumers can afford his EVs with such high interest rates, Wang is firmly on the offensive. His company offers half a dozen higher-volume models that cost much less than what Tesla charges for its cheapest Model 3 sedan in China.

When a Tesla owners’ club shared a clip in May of Musk snickering at BYD’s cars during a 2011 appearance on Bloomberg Television, Musk wrote back that BYD’s vehicles are “highly competitive these days.”

The likely change in the global EV pecking order marks the realization of a goal that Wang, 57, set back when China was just starting to foster its now world-beating electric car industry. While BYD continues to pull away from Tesla and all other auto brands at home, replicating its runaway success abroad is proving tricky.

Europe looks poised to join the US in slapping Chinese car imports with higher tariffs to shield thousands of manufacturing jobs. Other countries’ EV markets are still in their infancy and aren’t nearly as lucrative. Management views the US as virtually off-limits due to the escalating trade tensions between Washington and Beijing.

Wang is no Musk — he eschews social media and largely steers clear of the limelight. But in an uncharacteristically brash address delivered weeks before the European Union opened an investigation into how China has subsidized its EV industry, Wang declared the time had come for Chinese brands to “demolish the old legends” of the auto world.

 

While many car buyers outside of China are still only dimly aware of BYD, Warren Buffett surely isn’t. In 2008, Berkshire Hathaway Inc. invested about $230 million for an almost 10% stake in the Chinese automaker. When Berkshire started paring its holding last year — BYD shares were trading near their all-time high — the value of its stake had soared roughly 35-fold to around $8 billion.

The late Berkshire Vice Chairman Charlie Munger saw BYD primarily as a battery play. On Bloomberg TV in May 2009, he said

the company was working on “one of the most important subjects affecting the technological future of man.” Munger’s family had invested in the company years ahead of Berkshire, and he told an interviewer weeks before his death in November that he had tried to dissuade Wang from getting into the car business.

BYD acquired a failing state-owned automaker in 2003 and introduced its first plug-in hybrid — called the F3DM — in 2008. A New York Times reviewer panned its exterior design, calling the compact “about as trendy as a Y2K-era Toyota Corolla.” The company sold all of 48 units

in the first year.

Around that time, China started subsidizing plug-in car purchases. Support from the government extended from cities and provinces to the national level, spanning tax breaks for consumers, production incentives for manufacturers, help with research and development, and cheap land and loans.

As a rare automaker that also made its own batteries, BYD was uniquely positioned to benefit. Before entering the car business, it was the first Chinese lithium-ion supplier to Motorola and Nokia in the early 2000s. To scale up output before consumers were embracing EVs, the company targeted automotive segments that would need lots of cells. Its first electric bus launched soon after the F3DM.

“BYD was a miracle,” Munger told the podcast Acquired in an episode that aired in October. He called Wang a genius, saying he kept the company from going broke by working 70-hour weeks, and described him as a fanatical engineer. “The guy at BYD is better at actually making things than Elon is,” he said.

 

Roughly a decade and a half into making cars, BYD had mustered the smarts to bring plug-in car prices down to levels comparable with combustion engine vehicles. But its lineup still lacked good looks.

In 2016, the company hired Wolfgang Egger as design chief, a role he previously played for Audi and Alfa Romeo. It also lured away other international executives, including Ferrari’s head of exterior design and a top interior designer for Mercedes-Benz.

By the time China invited Tesla to build the country’s first car plant fully owned by a foreign entity, BYD was no longer resigned to making no-frills econoboxes. Now, its most expensive model — the Yangwang U8 sport utility vehicle — costs 1.09 million yuan ($152,600).

While the level of government subsidies has played a role in China’s tremendous EV growth, Paul Gong, UBS Group AG’s head of China autos research, believes the bigger factor is the level of competition that this support spawned.

“They have to work on the innovation, they have to try and find what consumers really want, and they have to optimize their costs to make sure their EVs are competitive in this highly competitive market,” Gong said. After tearing down a BYD Seal sedan and finding a 25% cost advantage over legacy competitors, his team concluded that Chinese manufacturers are likely to own a third of the global car market by the end of the decade.

 

For now, Tesla still has BYD beat on key metrics including revenue, income and market capitalization. Analysts at Bernstein expect some of those gaps to close considerably next year — they’re projecting Tesla will generate $114 billion in sales to BYD’s $112 billion.

Wang grew up the second youngest of eight children in the impoverished village of Wuwei in eastern China’s Anhui province. His parents died when he was a teenager, and his older siblings supported him through his high school and university education.

Through the early years of his working life, Wang was based in Beijing, working as a mid-level government researcher on rare-earth metals critical to batteries and consumer electronics. He founded BYD in 1995 in Shenzhen with the help of an almost $300,000 loan from a friend. He’s now worth $14.8 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.

 

Wang has racked up the air miles in 2023, crisscrossing the globe between auto shows, new market launches and meetings with heads of states. He’s touched down in countries including Japan, Germany, Vietnam, Brazil, Mexico and Chile — a travel schedule befitting the leader of a company that’s set up shop in some 60 countries and territories in just the last two years.

Analysts expect BYD to launch its third-generation EVs next year offering more technology, such as automated-driving capabilities. That’s one area where BYD falls short with its more affordable products versus upstarts like Nio Inc. and Xpeng Inc. Even as the number of auto rivals in China has shrunk from over 500 to around 100, new entrants continue to emerge, including well-funded tech giant Huawei Technologies Co.

When Bloomberg News asked Wang in March whether BYD had aspirations to be as big as Toyota, which in 2023 will be the world’s top-selling overall carmaker for a fourth straight year, he said the development of the EV industry will lead to an industry reshuffle.

“How a car company performs will depend on its tech and response,” he said. “BYD in China’s electrification is the winner for now, but how it will go tomorrow, we can’t say for sure. But we will lean into our advantages and keep making good products.”

 

But staying at the top will require a different mindset than getting there, said HSBC Qianhai Securities Ltd. head of China autos Yuqian Ding.

“When you become the No. 1, the mandate suddenly changes,” she said. “You’re going to redefine yourself — you’re going to have to find a way to beat yourself.”

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by NoName

[Chooky 13307]

[hornian 5213]

On 12/25/2023 at 5:29 AM, Fudge Nuggets said:

I’ve never been much of a car guy, I just want something that can get me from A to B and at least not look like an incel dork (sorry Tesla). But got damn, I love my Mercedes. First car I ever really enjoy driving. 

Driving any ICE, including a Mercedes, is just different from driving an EV. I happen to prefer the EV feel - and it doesn't hurt the one I drive has 835 HP and goes 0-60 in 3 seconds. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13582]

That comes in handy.

[Deej 76759]

On 12/26/2023 at 11:51 AM, Captain Ron said:

Actually this argument is saying: “yeah we entered into, legally binding but very difficult to prove, oral contracts, and we’re admitting we actually said them!!”

Known by aggy as a gentleman's agreement. 

[Newdoc 3439]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:12 PM, C-Man said:

EXCLUSIVETesla robot ATTACKS an engineer at company's Texas factory during violent malfunction - leaving 'trail of blood' and forcing workers to hit emergency shutdown button

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12869629/Tesla-robot-ATTACKS-engineer-companys-Texas-factory-violent-malfunction-leaving-trail-blood-forcing-workers-hit-emergency-shutdown-button.html

One in every 21 Giga Texas workers was injured on the job in 2022

 

It was from 2021 and it was a common industrial robot found in multiple factories. I'm certainly no Tesla fanboy but my pet peeve is shitty reporting and targeted releases of information because the news media has an axe to grind with certain individuals but then again, I went to school when they actually taught journalism.

[choripan 790]

49 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

It was from 2021 and it was a common industrial robot found in multiple factories. I'm certainly no Tesla fanboy but my pet peeve is shitty reporting and targeted releases of information because the news media has an axe to grind with certain individuals but then again, I went to school when they actually taught journalism.

Ahh yes, the old maxim of "it's been awhile so we shouldn't report on it."

Curious: where do you place the statute of limitations for just sweeping stuff under the rug? Looks like it's no more than 2 years.

[Left Coast 863]

18 hours ago, hornian said:

Driving any ICE, including a Mercedes, is just different from driving an EV. I happen to prefer the EV feel - and it doesn't hurt the one I drive has 835 HP and goes 0-60 in 3 seconds. 

You have a Rivian too? Nice…

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

5 hours ago, Newdoc said:

my pet peeve is shitty reporting and targeted releases of information because the news media has an axe to grind with certain individuals

So much to unpack here. Do you believe Elon Musk is just an ordinary individual?
 

or perhaps, and I’m just spitballing, that given his outsized control over several industries (including our national security) that extra scrutiny is warranted? Don’t worry, we don’t have to engage in defining “the news media” or why you apparently think Elon’s companies are being unfairly “targeted”

[wildcat09 29349]

Clearly there's some secret, nefarious force uniting American journalism outlets that are covering Elon with a new skepticism and British journalism outlets that are covering Elon with a new skepticism.  A (((globalist))) force, if you will.

[Newdoc 3439]

3 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

So much to unpack here. Do you believe Elon Musk is just an ordinary individual?
 

or perhaps, and I’m just spitballing, that given his outsized control over several industries (including our national security) that extra scrutiny is warranted? Don’t worry, we don’t have to engage in defining “the news media” or why you apparently think Elon’s companies are being unfairly “targeted”

No, it means that regardless of the individual, the news media has a responsibility for actual journalism. This was a Necro story that was brought up for a specific reason. Then grabbed by several sources for rehash as it makes for great Clickbait. Please tell me that you are aware of the inherent biases and manipulation of the media. And yes cliche, this includes most of the media that swings to either side.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Newdoc

[Brisketexan 105096]

3 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

No, it means that regardless of the individual, the news media has a responsibility for actual journalism. This was a Necro story that was brought up for a specific reason. Then grabbed by several sources for rehash as it makes for great Clickbait. Please tell me that you are aware of the inherent biases and manipulation of the media. And yes cliche, this includes most of the media that swings to either side.

Or....maybe...and work with me here....the narrative for a long-ass time was that Elon was some sort of super-innovative disruptor, and a force for good.  And because of that, people - including the media - looked the other way when factual events demonstrating his shitbaggery took place.  But now that Elon has outed himself as a shitbag, the ACTUAL events of shitbaggery that were previous swept under the rug by an adoring public are now coming to light.

In other words, it's not some sinister media agenda or bias.  Rather, it's human nature, and one that applied to society as a whole.

Bill Cosby was a hero: a beloved comedian, America's dad.  This was true for DECADES.  A handful of people, including his victims and a few powerful hollywood types, knew that he had a penchant for drugging and raping women.

Bill Cosby is now a villain: a piece of shit rapist who drugged and raped multiple women.

The facts didn't change, they are what they always were.  What changed was a critical mass of awareness of those facts that overcame the pre-existing broad belief in society (that Bill was a great guy).  One enough facts come out where it's apparent that gee, maybe Bill isn't such a great guy, then those stories of OLD facts become relevant.

The media (at least old-school, legacy type media) isn't sinister, it's lazy.  It reports the popular narrative.  Bill Cosby, America's Dad!  Elon, a tech innovator - will he take us all to Mars???  But when enough facts about the shitty truth comes out, the popular narrative changes....and the media follows along.  The popular narrative changes when the facts force it to.  Bill Cosby is a rapist POS.  Elon is a sociopathic narcissist POS.  Those things are true.  The media didn't make it so.

[Neonmoon 38129]

The richest man in the world is unfairly targeted?

/Apu valid criticism meme 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13582]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Elon, a tech innovator - will he take us all to Mars???

Before he bought Twitter I couldn't understand why my news feed incessantly thought I simply must know what Elon opined on or did today. It was weird. 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

 

 

 

[HenryJames 66042]

[Ted Lange 16084]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:01 AM, NoName said:

oh no, anyway.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-12-27/elon-musk-s-tesla-is-losing-ev-race-to-china-s-byd

note who isn't on this chart:

+

  Reveal hidden contents

TSLA delivered 1.82 million vehicles globally in 2023 shy of the 2 million goal Musk set at the start of the year

also the article includes this sick burn from the late Charlie Munger

christ, the sales number for BYD is incredible

 

 

Chinese Carmaker Overtakes Tesla as World’s Most Popular EV Maker

this is a long article

  Reveal hidden contents

China’s BYD Co. bills itself as the biggest car brand you’ve never heard of. It might need a different tagline soon.

The automaker is poised to surpass Tesla Inc. as the new worldwide leader in fully electric vehicle sales. When it does — likely in the current quarter — it will be both a symbolic turning point for the EV market and further confirmation of China’s growing clout in the global automotive industry.

 

In a sector still dominated by more familiar names like Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen AG and General Motors Co., Chinese manufacturers including BYD and SAIC Motor Corp. are making serious inroads. After leapfrogging the US, South Korea and Germany over the past few years, China now rivals Japan for the global lead in passenger car exports. Some 1.3 million of the 3.6 million vehicles shipped from the mainland as of October this year were electric.

“The competitive landscape of the auto industry has changed,” said Bridget McCarthy, head of China operations for Shenzhen-based hedge fund Snow Bull Capital, which has invested in both BYD and Tesla. “It’s no longer about the size and legacy of auto companies; it’s about the speed at which they can innovate and iterate. BYD began preparing long ago to be able to do this faster than anyone thought possible, and now the rest of the industry has to race to catch up.”

The passing of the EV sales crown also reflects the shift in competitive dynamics between Tesla’s Elon Musk, the world’s richest executive, and BYD’s billionaire founder Wang Chuanfu.

Whereas Musk has been warning that not enough consumers can afford his EVs with such high interest rates, Wang is firmly on the offensive. His company offers half a dozen higher-volume models that cost much less than what Tesla charges for its cheapest Model 3 sedan in China.

When a Tesla owners’ club shared a clip in May of Musk snickering at BYD’s cars during a 2011 appearance on Bloomberg Television, Musk wrote back that BYD’s vehicles are “highly competitive these days.”

The likely change in the global EV pecking order marks the realization of a goal that Wang, 57, set back when China was just starting to foster its now world-beating electric car industry. While BYD continues to pull away from Tesla and all other auto brands at home, replicating its runaway success abroad is proving tricky.

Europe looks poised to join the US in slapping Chinese car imports with higher tariffs to shield thousands of manufacturing jobs. Other countries’ EV markets are still in their infancy and aren’t nearly as lucrative. Management views the US as virtually off-limits due to the escalating trade tensions between Washington and Beijing.

Wang is no Musk — he eschews social media and largely steers clear of the limelight. But in an uncharacteristically brash address delivered weeks before the European Union opened an investigation into how China has subsidized its EV industry, Wang declared the time had come for Chinese brands to “demolish the old legends” of the auto world.

 

While many car buyers outside of China are still only dimly aware of BYD, Warren Buffett surely isn’t. In 2008, Berkshire Hathaway Inc. invested about $230 million for an almost 10% stake in the Chinese automaker. When Berkshire started paring its holding last year — BYD shares were trading near their all-time high — the value of its stake had soared roughly 35-fold to around $8 billion.

The late Berkshire Vice Chairman Charlie Munger saw BYD primarily as a battery play. On Bloomberg TV in May 2009, he said

the company was working on “one of the most important subjects affecting the technological future of man.” Munger’s family had invested in the company years ahead of Berkshire, and he told an interviewer weeks before his death in November that he had tried to dissuade Wang from getting into the car business.

BYD acquired a failing state-owned automaker in 2003 and introduced its first plug-in hybrid — called the F3DM — in 2008. A New York Times reviewer panned its exterior design, calling the compact “about as trendy as a Y2K-era Toyota Corolla.” The company sold all of 48 units

in the first year.

Around that time, China started subsidizing plug-in car purchases. Support from the government extended from cities and provinces to the national level, spanning tax breaks for consumers, production incentives for manufacturers, help with research and development, and cheap land and loans.

As a rare automaker that also made its own batteries, BYD was uniquely positioned to benefit. Before entering the car business, it was the first Chinese lithium-ion supplier to Motorola and Nokia in the early 2000s. To scale up output before consumers were embracing EVs, the company targeted automotive segments that would need lots of cells. Its first electric bus launched soon after the F3DM.

“BYD was a miracle,” Munger told the podcast Acquired in an episode that aired in October. He called Wang a genius, saying he kept the company from going broke by working 70-hour weeks, and described him as a fanatical engineer. “The guy at BYD is better at actually making things than Elon is,” he said.

 

Roughly a decade and a half into making cars, BYD had mustered the smarts to bring plug-in car prices down to levels comparable with combustion engine vehicles. But its lineup still lacked good looks.

In 2016, the company hired Wolfgang Egger as design chief, a role he previously played for Audi and Alfa Romeo. It also lured away other international executives, including Ferrari’s head of exterior design and a top interior designer for Mercedes-Benz.

By the time China invited Tesla to build the country’s first car plant fully owned by a foreign entity, BYD was no longer resigned to making no-frills econoboxes. Now, its most expensive model — the Yangwang U8 sport utility vehicle — costs 1.09 million yuan ($152,600).

While the level of government subsidies has played a role in China’s tremendous EV growth, Paul Gong, UBS Group AG’s head of China autos research, believes the bigger factor is the level of competition that this support spawned.

“They have to work on the innovation, they have to try and find what consumers really want, and they have to optimize their costs to make sure their EVs are competitive in this highly competitive market,” Gong said. After tearing down a BYD Seal sedan and finding a 25% cost advantage over legacy competitors, his team concluded that Chinese manufacturers are likely to own a third of the global car market by the end of the decade.

 

For now, Tesla still has BYD beat on key metrics including revenue, income and market capitalization. Analysts at Bernstein expect some of those gaps to close considerably next year — they’re projecting Tesla will generate $114 billion in sales to BYD’s $112 billion.

Wang grew up the second youngest of eight children in the impoverished village of Wuwei in eastern China’s Anhui province. His parents died when he was a teenager, and his older siblings supported him through his high school and university education.

Through the early years of his working life, Wang was based in Beijing, working as a mid-level government researcher on rare-earth metals critical to batteries and consumer electronics. He founded BYD in 1995 in Shenzhen with the help of an almost $300,000 loan from a friend. He’s now worth $14.8 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.

 

Wang has racked up the air miles in 2023, crisscrossing the globe between auto shows, new market launches and meetings with heads of states. He’s touched down in countries including Japan, Germany, Vietnam, Brazil, Mexico and Chile — a travel schedule befitting the leader of a company that’s set up shop in some 60 countries and territories in just the last two years.

Analysts expect BYD to launch its third-generation EVs next year offering more technology, such as automated-driving capabilities. That’s one area where BYD falls short with its more affordable products versus upstarts like Nio Inc. and Xpeng Inc. Even as the number of auto rivals in China has shrunk from over 500 to around 100, new entrants continue to emerge, including well-funded tech giant Huawei Technologies Co.

When Bloomberg News asked Wang in March whether BYD had aspirations to be as big as Toyota, which in 2023 will be the world’s top-selling overall carmaker for a fourth straight year, he said the development of the EV industry will lead to an industry reshuffle.

“How a car company performs will depend on its tech and response,” he said. “BYD in China’s electrification is the winner for now, but how it will go tomorrow, we can’t say for sure. But we will lean into our advantages and keep making good products.”

 

But staying at the top will require a different mindset than getting there, said HSBC Qianhai Securities Ltd. head of China autos Yuqian Ding.

“When you become the No. 1, the mandate suddenly changes,” she said. “You’re going to redefine yourself — you’re going to have to find a way to beat yourself.”

 

 

 

[Goredho 17399]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:30 PM, hornian said:

Driving any ICE, including a Mercedes, is just different from driving an EV. I happen to prefer the EV feel - and it doesn't hurt the one I drive has 835 HP and goes 0-60 in 3 seconds. 

 

On 12/27/2023 at 2:43 PM, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

That comes in handy.

Not as much as you might think.  Killer Tesla assembly robots have 900 HP and go 0-60 in 2.4 seconds.  While towing a Porche 911.

[Chopper 17230]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:01 AM, Guadaloopy said:

Improper use of the driver assist functions in Tesla’s caused deadly accidents. 

FALSE. This is an issue in current litigation and it's not looking good except for when he OBFUSCATES and skates by on a technicality.

On 12/24/2023 at 6:05 AM, Guadaloopy said:

I am not doing a “both sides” bit here.   Just pointing out that when it comes to vehicle recalls, Tesla is not some egregious outlier.

BULLSHIT

On 12/24/2023 at 6:22 AM, Guadaloopy said:

How old are you guys?  If I had time right now, I could link at least a half dozen stories of major auto manufacturers denying and obfuscating ahead of recalls over the decades.  

Whatabout/bullshit/Lie Link me to an article about a recall where every single vehicle made by a single manufacturer was recalled.

Do you have a paid gig from Tesla? If not, why in the fuck do you come here to lie, deny and obfuscate?

NPR

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/23/1214966530/judge-says-evidence-shows-tesla-and-elon-musk-knew-about-flawed-autopilot-system

There's plenty of other lawsuits as well as a class action over the exact matter you just totally denied because it's inconvenient to your propaganda. Feel free to use you web search function.

Are you personally troubled by the fact that Elmo posted a completely fake video on the tesla website seeking to show autopilot as a miraculous invention in order to con people to believe it was actually useful?
 

Quote

 

A Florida judge says a lawsuit against Tesla and its autopilot driving car can go to trial, adding to the company's legal woes over the technology.

Palm Beach County Judge Reid Scott ruled that there was "reasonable evidence" to conclude that Tesla owner and CEO, Elon Musk, and other company executives knew that the vehicle's autopilot system was defective. But they continued to tout its capabilities and sell it anyway.

The suit stems from a deadly crash in 2019, in which Jeremy Banner switched on the autopilot function on his Tesla Model 3 about 10 seconds before it drove under the trailer of a semi-truck. The collision sheared off the top of the car, killing Banner.

Tesla did not respond to a request for comment from NPR. Musk eliminated the company's media and public relations department four years ago.

Court documents in the case were intended to remain sealed but became temporarily available on Wednesday on the Palm Beach County Court's website, The Associated Press reported. They have since been removed.

The suit was filed by Banner's wife, Kim Banner, who has accused Tesla of gross negligence and intentional misconduct.

In the ruling, Scott said Banner's accident is "eerily similar" to Tesla's first autopilot-related death in 2016. In that case, a Model S also smashed into a semi-truck, chopping off the top of the vehicle and killing the driver.

At the time, Tesla addressed the fatal accident in a blog post, writing: "Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. The high ride height of the trailer combined with its positioning across the road and the extremely rare circumstances of the impact caused the Model S to pass under the trailer, with the bottom of the trailer impacting the windshield of the Model S."

According to Reuters, Scott said the company "made strong public statements and engaged in a marketing strategy that painted the products as autonomous" despite evidence that it was flawed.

The decision out of Florida comes on the heels of a legal victory for Tesla in California. In October, a judge there said Tesla's driver-assistance software was not to blame in a car crash that killed a driver and seriously injured two passengers.

No new trial date has been set for the Palm Beach case.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Chopper

[Chopper 17230]

Elmo, real quote: "Tesla cars could drive autonomously with greater safety than a person. Right now.”

Tesla, real summary: We accept no legal liability for our statements. All drivers and buyers should carefully read the fine print before driving a Tesla vehicle."

Rolling Stone article from 2 weeks ago https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/elon-musk-big-lie-tesla-140000282.html

Quote

 

In the tiny victory of forcing a recall based on human factors, NHTSA has contributed in its small way to the growing understanding that Tesla’s claims about their technology are untrue and unsafe. Musk has been arguing since 2019 that Tesla’s self-driving technology was progressing so fast that adding driver monitoring wouldn’t make sense, and any human input would only introduce error into the system. After giving him four years worth of the benefit of the doubt, NHTSA is at long last calling the bluff.

Though hardly a heroic effort to protect the public roads, this recall does open the door for broader action. The Department of Justice has had investigations into Tesla’s “Full Self-Driving” for some time now, and the tacit admission that humans are still the safety critical factor in Tesla’s automated driving system may be a prelude to more muscular enforcement. More importantly, it provides ammunition for an army of hungry personal injury lawyers to tear into Tesla’s cashpile in a feeding frenzy of civil litigation.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Chopper
typo

[Chopper 17230]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:51 AM, Newdoc said:

It was from 2021 and it was a common industrial robot found in multiple factories. I'm certainly no Tesla fanboy but my pet peeve is shitty reporting and targeted releases of information because the news media has an axe to grind with certain individuals but then again, I went to school when they actually taught journalism.

I'm wondering about your level of reading comprehension. Can you take a look at these few words from the article and tell me how they jibe with your wholly regarded nonsensical statement?

It appears you seriously lack education about journalism, statistics and research.

 

[TonyTexas 10510]

The latest fuckup leading to the unusability of X is that they’re allowing bots to generate ads for the same damn thing. It does no good to ignore because  the ads are all coming from different bot accounts. 

[HornOnTheBayou 8921]

50 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

The latest fuckup leading to the unusability of X is that they’re allowing bots to generate ads for the same damn thing. It does no good to ignore because  the ads are all coming from different bot accounts. 

Yep. I saw an ad for a weight loss pill scam ("as seen on Shark Tank!") at least ten times today even after trying to block it. Ridiculous. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13582]

45 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Yep. I saw an ad for a weight loss pill scam ("as seen on Shark Tank!") at least ten times today even after trying to block it. Ridiculous. 

I used to block random media sites on my news feed forcefeeding me Elon stories only to see the same verbatim story pop up under a new media banner. 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

3 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

The latest fuckup leading to the unusability of X is that they’re allowing bots to generate ads for the same damn thing. It does no good to ignore because  the ads are all coming from different bot accounts. 

 

I remember when Elon swore he would get rid of the bots.  

 

 

[AggieFactFinder 31]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:46 PM, Brisketexan said:

Or....maybe...and work with me here....the narrative for a long-ass time was that Elon was some sort of super-innovative disruptor, and a force for good.  And because of that, people - including the media - looked the other way when factual events demonstrating his shitbaggery took place.  But now that Elon has outed himself as a shitbag, the ACTUAL events of shitbaggery that were previous swept under the rug by an adoring public are now coming to light.

In other words, it's not some sinister media agenda or bias.  Rather, it's human nature, and one that applied to society as a whole.

Bill Cosby was a hero: a beloved comedian, America's dad.  This was true for DECADES.  A handful of people, including his victims and a few powerful hollywood types, knew that he had a penchant for drugging and raping women.

Bill Cosby is now a villain: a piece of shit rapist who drugged and raped multiple women.

The facts didn't change, they are what they always were.  What changed was a critical mass of awareness of those facts that overcame the pre-existing broad belief in society (that Bill was a great guy).  One enough facts come out where it's apparent that gee, maybe Bill isn't such a great guy, then those stories of OLD facts become relevant.

The media (at least old-school, legacy type media) isn't sinister, it's lazy.  It reports the popular narrative.  Bill Cosby, America's Dad!  Elon, a tech innovator - will he take us all to Mars???  But when enough facts about the shitty truth comes out, the popular narrative changes....and the media follows along.  The popular narrative changes when the facts force it to.  Bill Cosby is a rapist POS.  Elon is a sociopathic narcissist POS.  Those things are true.  The media didn't make it so.

Or maybe...the wrong guy bought twitter.  This 2018 thread was 12 pages long in April 2022, when Musk's interest in twitter became public.  305 pages since. 

 

On 11/30/2022 at 7:19 PM, Brisketexan said:

Yep. Occam’s razor.

 

[956 Worldwide 34705]

The Cybertruck won a fight with a Toyota Corolla! Smashed it all to hell and has much less damage!

https://nypost.com/2023/12/29/business/tesla-cybertruck-involved-in-first-reported-crash/
 

(Only injury is to Cybertruck driver) 

[TwiceHorn 31451]

On 12/17/2023 at 7:45 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

I've known quite a few Weatherford employees over the course of my career.  None of them I would consider a "world-class expert" by any stretch.  One of them even joked that when Schlumberger goes to hire new employees, they search the graduate schools.  Halliburton and Baker Hughes pull from undergrad programs.  Weatherford recruits from the local prison.

Yeah, that was always kind of the hierarchy.  But Baker had been dragging HTC down for 30 years until the GE acquisition.  Weatherford seemed to make a few good acquisitions there for a bit, at least from a patent standpoint.  And then Schlumberger bought Smith.

Weird wild wacky stuff.

[Ten Bears 2481]

 

As seen by my kid in the wilds of Austin yesterday. Her comment: "Of course he parks like an asshole."

[Brisketexan 105096]

 
As seen by my kid in the wilds of Austin yesterday. Her comment: "Of course he parks like an asshole."

I do love the pulldown bed cover, taken from the “front entrance of a Foot Locker in the hood” collection.

[Hefeweizen 5311]

That looks comically bad.  Like made from plywood and tin.

[mchookem 16327]

i honestly feel like it shouldn't even be a real thing lol. i mean just look at!

Edited December 31, 2023 by mchookem

[Neonmoon 38129]

This website is…amazing 

https://elonmusk.today/

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

On 12/30/2023 at 10:24 AM, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

I remember when Elon swore he would get rid of the bots.  

 

 

My conspiracy theory back then was he wanted the old twitter ownership to get rid of the bots to drive down the number of "active users".  Then after his purchase went through, he was going to intentionally let the bots back on to show huge growth in "active users".  By doing that, the valuation of twitter would go up and he would cash out for big dick gains.  But like everything else, he fucked it up.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13582]

11 hours ago, mchookem said:

i honestly feel like it shouldn't even be a real thing lol. i mean just look at!

Reminds me of childrens' animal drawings made real.

https://www.demilked.com/realistic-sculptures-kids-drawings-tom-curtis/

[HenryJames 66042]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/12/31/tesla-autopilot-recall-test/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzAzOTk4ODAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzA1MzgxMTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MDM5OTg4MDAsImp0aSI6ImE5MTRjYTEwLTViYzctNDA1YS05YzQ2LTBmYjY3NTU1YzZlMCIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS90ZWNobm9sb2d5LzIwMjMvMTIvMzEvdGVzbGEtYXV0b3BpbG90LXJlY2FsbC10ZXN0LyJ9._pYl7U4iCTMquIx7OHilZfycGYVL8AZx7w5sOWocDAk

Spoiler

Testing Tesla’s Autopilot recall, I don’t feel much safer — and neither should you

On the streets of San Francisco, the updated version of Tesla’s driver-assistance software still took the wheel in places it wasn’t designed to handle, including blowing through stop signs

Geoffrey A. Fowler

December 31, 2023 at 6:00 a.m. EST

(Video: The Washington Post)

Last weekend, my Tesla Model Y received an over-the-air update to make its driver-assistance software safer. In my first test drive of the updated Tesla, it blew through two stop signs without even slowing down.

In December, Tesla issued its largest-ever recall, affecting almost all of its 2 million cars. It is like the software updates you get on your phone, except this was supposed to prevent drivers from misusing Tesla’s Autopilot software.

After testing my Tesla update, I don’t feel much safer — and neither should you, knowing that this technology is on the same roads you use.

During my drive, the updated Tesla steered itself on urban San Francisco streets Autopilot wasn’t designed for. (I was careful to let the tech do its thing only when my hands were hovering by the wheel and I was paying attention.) The recall was supposed to force drivers to pay more attention while using Autopilot by sensing hands on the steering wheel and checking for eyes on the road. Yet my car drove through the city with my hands off the wheel for stretches of a minute or more. I could even activate Autopilot after I placed a sticker over the car’s interior camera used to track my attention.

(Video: The Washington Post)

The underlying issue is that while a government investigation prompted the recall, Tesla got to drive what went into the software update — and it appears not to want to alienate some customers by imposing new limits on its tech. It’s a warning about how unprepared we are for an era where vehicles can seem a lot more like smartphones, but are still 4,000-pound speed machines that require a different level of scrutiny and transparency.

Story continues below advertisement

Tesla’s recall follows an investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into crashes involving Autopilot. My Washington Post colleagues found that at least eight fatal or serious crashes have involved Tesla drivers using Autopilot on roads where the software was not intended to be used, such as streets with cross traffic.

These crashes have killed or severely wounded not only Tesla drivers, but bystanders. Tesla says its Autopilot software makes its cars safer overall than those without it.

Announcing the recall, NHTSA said it was supposed to “encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility” when using the technology, and would include “additional checks” on drivers “using the feature outside controlled access highways.” But Tesla wasn’t specific about what, exactly, would change with the update to counteract misuse.

Tesla didn’t respond to my request for comment. NHTSA’s director of communications, Veronica Morales, said the agency’s “investigation remains open” and the agency will “continue to examine the performance of recalled vehicles.”

I found we have every reason to be skeptical this recall does much of anything.

Story continues below advertisement

 

 

How I tested Tesla’s recall

It goes without saying: Don’t try this at home. I was quite surprised the Tesla would just blow through a stop sign, and activated Autopilot only near stops when there weren’t others around. I was only simulating not paying attention to understand the software’s capabilities and limitations, which are now clear.

I took my Tesla out on two identical test drives, before and after the update. My family leases a blue Tesla Model Y, one of America’s best-selling cars, which we’ve been largely content with. (Tesla can be very clever with software, and one time my car even bore witness to its own hit and run accident.)

The process of simply getting the recall was itself a red flag for a lack of urgency about this fix. Unlike on a phone, where you can go to settings to look for updates, my car had no button to look for or prompt a download. Tesla’s user manual advised updates would download automatically if I had strong WiFi, so I moved my router outdoors near my parked car. When the recall finally arrived — a week and a half later — it contained a number of other unrelated features as well as a patch on top of its original release.

I was using an Autopilot function known as Autosteer, which Tesla dubs “Beta” software but makes widely available. It automatically turns the wheel to keep it within lane lines. Drivers of recent Tesla models can easily activate it by pushing down twice on the right-hand stalk next to the wheel.

(Video: The Washington Post)

In fine print and user manuals most drivers probably haven’t pored over, Tesla says that Autosteer “is designed for use on highways that have a center divider, clear lane markings, and no cross-traffic.” It adds: “Please use it only if you will pay attention to the road, keep your hands on the steering wheel, and be prepared to take over at any time.”

As the crashes spotlighted by The Post investigation indicate, it isn’t clear to some drivers where you’re supposed to use Autosteer and what, exactly, it will do for you. It’s not nearly as advanced as Tesla’s “Full Self-Driving” capability, which requires a $200 per month subscription to access and is designed to be used on city streets.

Unfortunately, little about the recall forces Autosteer to operate only in situations it was designed to handle.

Story continues below advertisement

 

Nothing changed after the recall about what seems to me to be the most critical issue: the places in which Autosteer will activate. I was able to use it well beyond highways, including city streets with stop signs, stop lights and significant curves. Autosteer flew into speed bumps at full speed, causing a raucous ride.

This is bad software design. Teslas already contain mapping systems that know which street you’re on. Tesla’s surround-view cameras can identify stop signs and cross traffic. Why doesn’t Autopilot’s software pay attention to that data and allow Autosteer to activate only on roads it was designed for? The only factor I experienced that seemed to cause it to not operate (and flash a “temporarily unavailable” message) was if streets lacked clear paint lines.

The two times Autosteer allowed my car to roll right through intersections with stop signs were especially nerve wracking. I could tell from icons on the car’s screen that it could see the sign, yet it did not disengage Autosteer or stop. After digging around Tesla’s website, I discovered that Tesla says obeying stop signs and stop lights is a function included for those who pay for Full Self-Driving. Should you really have to pay extra to keep the software your car comes with by default from doing reckless things?

Tesla’s superfans may argue they don’t want their car (or the government) telling them where they can use certain functions. But only Tesla is truly able to judge the conditions where its Autosteer software is safe — that information is opaque to drivers, and clearly people keep misjudging it. I believe cars will get safer with self-driving and driver-assistance software, but need to tap into all available data to do so.

“NHTSA must set their sights beyond this recall and limit Tesla’s Autosteer feature to the limited-access highways for which it was designed,” said Sen. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.), with whom I shared my test results.

The biggest recall change my tests did reveal was how the car warned me about being attentive to the road while Autosteer was activated. But it’s subtle at best.

At the top of Tesla’s release notes for the recall is that it has “improved visibility” of driver-warning alerts on its main screen. Looking at my own before and after photos, I can see these newer messages — which often ask you to apply slight force to the wheel — have larger type, include an icon and now show up in the upper third of the screen.

It is good for critical messages to not require reading glasses. But I also wonder whether more distractions on a screen might actually take people’s attention away from the road.

Tesla’s recall release notes also suggest the warnings will come more often, saying there is increased “strictness” of driver attentiveness requirements when Autosteer is active and the car is approaching “traffic lights and stop signs off-highway.”

Online, some frequent Autosteer users have complained that the recall gives them hands-on-the-wheel warning “nags” much too often. In my pre-recall test drive, I was able to go for 75 seconds on a San Francisco street with traffic lights without my hands on the wheel before getting a warning. On the same road after the update, I could go for 60 seconds without my hands on the wheel.

I wasn’t able to discern what prompted the hands-on-the-wheel alerts I received. On roads with stop lights, I did sometimes get a warning ahead of the intersection — but usually just deactivated the software myself to stay safe. Ahead of the two stop signs the car ran through, one time I got a hands-on warning, and one time I did not.

More worrisome is how the recall handled my car’s interior camera. It’s used along with pressure on the steering wheel to check whether the driver is paying attention and not looking at their phone.

When I covered the lens with a smiley-face sticker — a trick I read about on social media from other Tesla owners — the car would still activate Autosteer. The system did send more warnings about keeping my hands on the wheel while the camera was covered. But I don’t understand why Tesla would allow you to activate Autosteer at all when the camera is either malfunctioning or being monkeyed with.

Finally, the update release notes said Tesla’s systems would suspend Autopilot for drivers who collect five “Forced Autopilot Disengagements” — a term for when the software shuts itself off when it detects improper use. I was not suspended during my tests, and received only one forced disengagement, which didn’t stop me from re-engaging Autopilot shortly after.

Story continues below advertisement

 

How could the government let this pass?

I also shared my results with Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn), who told me we need a recall of the recall. “This is tragedy waiting to happen,” he said. “We are going to be demanding additional action from Tesla, and also that NHTSA show some real legal muscle against [CEO] Elon Musk’s mockery.”

NHTSA’s Morales declined to comment on the specifics of my experience. But she said in a statement that the law, known as the Vehicle Safety Act, “puts the burden on the manufacturer” to develop safety fixes.

“NHTSA does not preapprove remedies,” she said. Instead, “the agency will monitor field and other data to determine its adequacy, including field monitoring of the effects of the remedy in addressing the safety problem and testing any software or hardware changes in recalled vehicles.”

Which aspects of the performance would violate NHTSA’s requirements? And how long will this take? Morales said only that the agency’s Vehicle Research and Test Center in Ohio has several Tesla vehicles that it will use for testing.

“Consumers should never attempt to create their own vehicle test scenarios, or use real people or public roadways to test the performance of vehicle technology,” Morales added. “Intentional unsafe use of a vehicle is dangerous and may be in violation of State and local laws.”

Yet every Tesla driver who is using Autopilot with the update is testing the performance of the technology while we wait for NHTSA to do its own. It’s hard to see how post-release review serves public safety in an era where software, and especially driver-assistance capabilities, introduces very new kinds of risk.

Compare a current Tesla to your phone. Apps are subjected to prerelease review by Apple and Google before they’re made available to download. They must meet transparency requirements.

Why should a car get less scrutiny than a phone?

“Tesla’s recall makes clear that the cars of the future require smarter safety solutions than of the past,” Markey said.

 

[Chopper 17230]

10 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

This website is…amazing 

https://elonmusk.today/

Recalling a recent article about how smart new grads are too embarrassed and dignified to work for a Musk company. Has it already been 590 days since this went down?!

Edited December 31, 2023 by Chopper

[4th&Five 41525]

23 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

That looks comically bad.  Like made from plywood and tin.

I was next to one in Bee Caves the other day at a light and literally laughed about how stupid it looks in person. It’s by far the dumbest looking car I’ve seen. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13582]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/12/31/tesla-autopilot-recall-test/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzAzOTk4ODAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzA1MzgxMTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MDM5OTg4MDAsImp0aSI6ImE5MTRjYTEwLTViYzctNDA1YS05YzQ2LTBmYjY3NTU1YzZlMCIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS90ZWNobm9sb2d5LzIwMjMvMTIvMzEvdGVzbGEtYXV0b3BpbG90LXJlY2FsbC10ZXN0LyJ9._pYl7U4iCTMquIx7OHilZfycGYVL8AZx7w5sOWocDAk

  Reveal hidden contents

Testing Tesla’s Autopilot recall, I don’t feel much safer — and neither should you

On the streets of San Francisco, the updated version of Tesla’s driver-assistance software still took the wheel in places it wasn’t designed to handle, including blowing through stop signs

Geoffrey A. Fowler

December 31, 2023 at 6:00 a.m. EST

(Video: The Washington Post)

Last weekend, my Tesla Model Y received an over-the-air update to make its driver-assistance software safer. In my first test drive of the updated Tesla, it blew through two stop signs without even slowing down.

In December, Tesla issued its largest-ever recall, affecting almost all of its 2 million cars. It is like the software updates you get on your phone, except this was supposed to prevent drivers from misusing Tesla’s Autopilot software.

After testing my Tesla update, I don’t feel much safer — and neither should you, knowing that this technology is on the same roads you use.

During my drive, the updated Tesla steered itself on urban San Francisco streets Autopilot wasn’t designed for. (I was careful to let the tech do its thing only when my hands were hovering by the wheel and I was paying attention.) The recall was supposed to force drivers to pay more attention while using Autopilot by sensing hands on the steering wheel and checking for eyes on the road. Yet my car drove through the city with my hands off the wheel for stretches of a minute or more. I could even activate Autopilot after I placed a sticker over the car’s interior camera used to track my attention.

(Video: The Washington Post)

The underlying issue is that while a government investigation prompted the recall, Tesla got to drive what went into the software update — and it appears not to want to alienate some customers by imposing new limits on its tech. It’s a warning about how unprepared we are for an era where vehicles can seem a lot more like smartphones, but are still 4,000-pound speed machines that require a different level of scrutiny and transparency.

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Tesla’s recall follows an investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into crashes involving Autopilot. My Washington Post colleagues found that at least eight fatal or serious crashes have involved Tesla drivers using Autopilot on roads where the software was not intended to be used, such as streets with cross traffic.

These crashes have killed or severely wounded not only Tesla drivers, but bystanders. Tesla says its Autopilot software makes its cars safer overall than those without it.

Announcing the recall, NHTSA said it was supposed to “encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility” when using the technology, and would include “additional checks” on drivers “using the feature outside controlled access highways.” But Tesla wasn’t specific about what, exactly, would change with the update to counteract misuse.

Tesla didn’t respond to my request for comment. NHTSA’s director of communications, Veronica Morales, said the agency’s “investigation remains open” and the agency will “continue to examine the performance of recalled vehicles.”

I found we have every reason to be skeptical this recall does much of anything.

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How I tested Tesla’s recall

It goes without saying: Don’t try this at home. I was quite surprised the Tesla would just blow through a stop sign, and activated Autopilot only near stops when there weren’t others around. I was only simulating not paying attention to understand the software’s capabilities and limitations, which are now clear.

I took my Tesla out on two identical test drives, before and after the update. My family leases a blue Tesla Model Y, one of America’s best-selling cars, which we’ve been largely content with. (Tesla can be very clever with software, and one time my car even bore witness to its own hit and run accident.)

The process of simply getting the recall was itself a red flag for a lack of urgency about this fix. Unlike on a phone, where you can go to settings to look for updates, my car had no button to look for or prompt a download. Tesla’s user manual advised updates would download automatically if I had strong WiFi, so I moved my router outdoors near my parked car. When the recall finally arrived — a week and a half later — it contained a number of other unrelated features as well as a patch on top of its original release.

I was using an Autopilot function known as Autosteer, which Tesla dubs “Beta” software but makes widely available. It automatically turns the wheel to keep it within lane lines. Drivers of recent Tesla models can easily activate it by pushing down twice on the right-hand stalk next to the wheel.

(Video: The Washington Post)

In fine print and user manuals most drivers probably haven’t pored over, Tesla says that Autosteer “is designed for use on highways that have a center divider, clear lane markings, and no cross-traffic.” It adds: “Please use it only if you will pay attention to the road, keep your hands on the steering wheel, and be prepared to take over at any time.”

As the crashes spotlighted by The Post investigation indicate, it isn’t clear to some drivers where you’re supposed to use Autosteer and what, exactly, it will do for you. It’s not nearly as advanced as Tesla’s “Full Self-Driving” capability, which requires a $200 per month subscription to access and is designed to be used on city streets.

Unfortunately, little about the recall forces Autosteer to operate only in situations it was designed to handle.

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Nothing changed after the recall about what seems to me to be the most critical issue: the places in which Autosteer will activate. I was able to use it well beyond highways, including city streets with stop signs, stop lights and significant curves. Autosteer flew into speed bumps at full speed, causing a raucous ride.

This is bad software design. Teslas already contain mapping systems that know which street you’re on. Tesla’s surround-view cameras can identify stop signs and cross traffic. Why doesn’t Autopilot’s software pay attention to that data and allow Autosteer to activate only on roads it was designed for? The only factor I experienced that seemed to cause it to not operate (and flash a “temporarily unavailable” message) was if streets lacked clear paint lines.

The two times Autosteer allowed my car to roll right through intersections with stop signs were especially nerve wracking. I could tell from icons on the car’s screen that it could see the sign, yet it did not disengage Autosteer or stop. After digging around Tesla’s website, I discovered that Tesla says obeying stop signs and stop lights is a function included for those who pay for Full Self-Driving. Should you really have to pay extra to keep the software your car comes with by default from doing reckless things?

Tesla’s superfans may argue they don’t want their car (or the government) telling them where they can use certain functions. But only Tesla is truly able to judge the conditions where its Autosteer software is safe — that information is opaque to drivers, and clearly people keep misjudging it. I believe cars will get safer with self-driving and driver-assistance software, but need to tap into all available data to do so.

“NHTSA must set their sights beyond this recall and limit Tesla’s Autosteer feature to the limited-access highways for which it was designed,” said Sen. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.), with whom I shared my test results.

The biggest recall change my tests did reveal was how the car warned me about being attentive to the road while Autosteer was activated. But it’s subtle at best.

At the top of Tesla’s release notes for the recall is that it has “improved visibility” of driver-warning alerts on its main screen. Looking at my own before and after photos, I can see these newer messages — which often ask you to apply slight force to the wheel — have larger type, include an icon and now show up in the upper third of the screen.

It is good for critical messages to not require reading glasses. But I also wonder whether more distractions on a screen might actually take people’s attention away from the road.

Tesla’s recall release notes also suggest the warnings will come more often, saying there is increased “strictness” of driver attentiveness requirements when Autosteer is active and the car is approaching “traffic lights and stop signs off-highway.”

Online, some frequent Autosteer users have complained that the recall gives them hands-on-the-wheel warning “nags” much too often. In my pre-recall test drive, I was able to go for 75 seconds on a San Francisco street with traffic lights without my hands on the wheel before getting a warning. On the same road after the update, I could go for 60 seconds without my hands on the wheel.

I wasn’t able to discern what prompted the hands-on-the-wheel alerts I received. On roads with stop lights, I did sometimes get a warning ahead of the intersection — but usually just deactivated the software myself to stay safe. Ahead of the two stop signs the car ran through, one time I got a hands-on warning, and one time I did not.

More worrisome is how the recall handled my car’s interior camera. It’s used along with pressure on the steering wheel to check whether the driver is paying attention and not looking at their phone.

When I covered the lens with a smiley-face sticker — a trick I read about on social media from other Tesla owners — the car would still activate Autosteer. The system did send more warnings about keeping my hands on the wheel while the camera was covered. But I don’t understand why Tesla would allow you to activate Autosteer at all when the camera is either malfunctioning or being monkeyed with.

Finally, the update release notes said Tesla’s systems would suspend Autopilot for drivers who collect five “Forced Autopilot Disengagements” — a term for when the software shuts itself off when it detects improper use. I was not suspended during my tests, and received only one forced disengagement, which didn’t stop me from re-engaging Autopilot shortly after.

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How could the government let this pass?

I also shared my results with Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn), who told me we need a recall of the recall. “This is tragedy waiting to happen,” he said. “We are going to be demanding additional action from Tesla, and also that NHTSA show some real legal muscle against [CEO] Elon Musk’s mockery.”

NHTSA’s Morales declined to comment on the specifics of my experience. But she said in a statement that the law, known as the Vehicle Safety Act, “puts the burden on the manufacturer” to develop safety fixes.

“NHTSA does not preapprove remedies,” she said. Instead, “the agency will monitor field and other data to determine its adequacy, including field monitoring of the effects of the remedy in addressing the safety problem and testing any software or hardware changes in recalled vehicles.”

Which aspects of the performance would violate NHTSA’s requirements? And how long will this take? Morales said only that the agency’s Vehicle Research and Test Center in Ohio has several Tesla vehicles that it will use for testing.

“Consumers should never attempt to create their own vehicle test scenarios, or use real people or public roadways to test the performance of vehicle technology,” Morales added. “Intentional unsafe use of a vehicle is dangerous and may be in violation of State and local laws.”

Yet every Tesla driver who is using Autopilot with the update is testing the performance of the technology while we wait for NHTSA to do its own. It’s hard to see how post-release review serves public safety in an era where software, and especially driver-assistance capabilities, introduces very new kinds of risk.

Compare a current Tesla to your phone. Apps are subjected to prerelease review by Apple and Google before they’re made available to download. They must meet transparency requirements.

Why should a car get less scrutiny than a phone?

“Tesla’s recall makes clear that the cars of the future require smarter safety solutions than of the past,” Markey said.

 

WOO WOOOOOO!!!