Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[BabaYaga 15624]

21 minutes ago, Zwylde said:

Ford’s union pension liabilities maybe?  It has to be massive chunk of the balance sheet.

Because Tesla is a data collection company disguised as a car company.

[Captainant 28537]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Because Tesla is a data collection company disguised as a car company.

Merely collecting data doesn't create value - you either need to be selling that data to somebody or using it to create a model that does something that you can sell. Tesla is collecting data, but I doubt that their data makes them worth $700,000,000,000 more than Ford - especially considering that literally every major enterprise is just data collection now. 

What value does Tesla's data give them? So far all it does is get investors to throw money at them. It all smell very crypto-grifty

[bullzak 428]

On 6/6/2022 at 3:31 PM, Bookman said:

Does Twitter want specific performance? Is that even an available remedy?

Isn't there a billion dollar liquidated damages clause?

Thats my question. I recall from decades ago that specific performance is limited. Mostly real estate deals. Cant he just pay the 1 billion and walk? 

[bullzak 428]

On 6/6/2022 at 3:47 PM, longhornmatt said:

They have specific performance in the merger agreement. 

If thats true I am sure his lawyer tried like hell to talk him out of it. 

[Ag with kids 581]

1 hour ago, sidis said:

i seem to be missing something...why are people calling this a "truck?"

this looks like a car designed by a kid in an elementary school geometry class who got their first ruler/protractor...with a lift kit.  how is it a truck?

[CooterBrown 18288]

Having grown up on the Mad Max films, I am a fan of the Cybertruck.

I think everyone misses the point. It's not truck for traditional truck buyers. It's a high tech El Camino.  Need to occasionally haul some camping gear, surf boards, or bikes?  Here's your vehicle.

 

[TheStoicPaisano 9953]

A vehicular hermaphrodite?

[F250 29200]

2 hours ago, sidis said:

i seem to be missing something...why are people calling this a "truck?"

this looks like a car designed by a kid in an elementary school geometry class who got their first ruler/protractor...with a lift kit.  how is it a truck?

Wait until you see what happens when it reaches 88 MPH.

 

[Wally Fairway 5674]

6 hours ago, HenryJames said:

I am impressed, they were able to drive it at what looks to be 3 mph, make a turn and nothing fell off.
I mean I'd bet good money (not $280 billion, but good money) that it is being held together with bailing wire, duct tape and chewing gum

[Brisketexan 106890]

3 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

I am impressed, they were able to drive it at what looks to be 3 mph, make a turn and nothing fell off.
I mean I'd bet good money (not $280 billion, but good money) that it is being held together with bailing wire, duct tape and chewing gum

I'll say this strictly as a consumer, with no particular affinity or disdain for a Tesla product per se.....in the next 2-3 years, I may be in the market for a new vehicle, leaning towards a truck.  The Ford Lightning has interested me greatly (not for the least of reasons, I can get the top-end power package and with a tweak to my home system, use it to power my house the next time our grid fails -- and there will be multiple next times).  The Tesla Cybertruck.....has not interested me at all.

Because in the end, I will be buying a vehicle to do all the things I want a truck and EV to do: be a reliable every-day driver, get good mileage, and do truck stuff (tow, haul shit, have 4X4 capability for hunting trips, etc.)  Ford has decades of experience meeting those functions.  The F-150 is a proven platform (I have one now, albeit an old one that I've worn out).  I suspect that many vehicle consumers who end up getting EVs are "vehicle consumers" first, EV consumers second, so they'll go with more proven platforms.  

Tesla has had an advantage in the market space for several years.  That advantage is dwindling every day, and Tesla really hasn't done anything new to grab more of the market.

[NoName 17148]

33 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Having grown up on the Mad Max films, I am a fan of the Cybertruck.

I think everyone misses the point. It's not truck for traditional truck buyers. It's a high tech El Camino.  Need to occasionally haul some camping gear, surf boards, or bikes?  Here's your vehicle.

 

...there is a reason the El Camino was last made in 1987.

IIRC, it was discontinued because of Chevy S-10 (compact pickup for those of you were are too young to know) sales?

[Brisketexan 106890]

1 minute ago, NoName said:

...there is a reason the El Camino was last made in 1987.

Sure....but now that more and more jurisdictions are legalizing weed, maybe there's a market for it again?

 

[NoName 17148]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Sure....but now that more and more jurisdictions are legalizing weed, maybe there's a market for it again?

 

well, can't argue with that haha

[tbone_ 14443]

Dope af

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

2 hours ago, sidis said:

i seem to be missing something...why are people calling this a "truck?"

this looks like a car designed by a kid in an elementary school geometry class who got their first ruler/protractor...with a lift kit.  how is it a truck?

Yep I sketched this out in Mrs. Rodriguez's class sometime in the 4th grade. Same colors and everything. 

Belongs in a Trapper Keeper and not on the road.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10803]

I never figured most Tesla owners were buying their cars on "looks".  (Lid for every pot I guess)  I don't think the truck will be much different.

[royiv 9787]

Does anyone have insight into what Tesla's ultimate plan is for model redesigns? So far, it appears that they are just going to roll with a model design forever with a few minor cosmetic changes every now and then. The Model S is 10 years old now and still rolling with the same basic original design. It's getting a little long in the tooth IMO.

[Homercles 10206]

Doesn’t matter since they all look the same anyways 

[52-80 19377]

Twitter hands over trove of requested data to Elon Musk, reiterates plan to close purchase agreement.

 

brinksmanship/gamesmanship is on.

[52-80 19377]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

Does anyone have insight into what Tesla's ultimate plan is for model redesigns? So far, it appears that they are just going to roll with a model design forever with a few minor cosmetic changes every now and then. The Model S is 10 years old now and still rolling with the same basic original design. It's getting a little long in the tooth IMO.

Keep selling as long as people keep buying.  The new S has a substantially different cabin front and back, and if powertrain is the other half of the car, its gone from ~350hp to now 1000hp+.  Other functionality are software-deployed.  No need to overhaul the frame and skin if it hurts operating leverage .

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

32 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Twitter hands over trove of requested data to Elon Musk, reiterates plan to close purchase agreement.

 

brinksmanship/gamesmanship is on.

Over under on Elon tweeting confidential information?  

 

I'm going with Friday

[royiv 9787]

14 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Keep selling as long as people keep buying.  The new S has a substantially different cabin front and back, and if powertrain is the other half of the car, its gone from ~350hp to now 1000hp+.  Other functionality are software-deployed.  No need to overhaul the frame and skin if it hurts operating leverage .

Except the skin on the S is starting to age like a Crown Vic or Taurus. 

[Brisketexan 106890]

7 minutes ago, royiv said:

Except the skin on the S is starting to age like a Crown Vic or Taurus. 

What, no love for the timeless Caprice Classic?

[F250 29200]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

What, no love for the timeless Caprice Classic?

I had a friend in high school that drove a maroon one that his grandparents gave him. That thing was uncool and we teased him about it. "Here comes Mike in his old man car."

 

[Hmbre97 6337]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

I had a friend in high school that drove a maroon one that his grandparents gave him. That thing was uncool and we teased him about it. "Here comes Mike in his old man car."

 

I bet it was comfortable as fuck though and could fit a bunch of people in it.

[F250 29200]

5 minutes ago, Hmbre97 said:

I bet it was comfortable as fuck though and could fit a bunch of people in it.

Well, yeah, it was a grandpa car.

 

[MAUFRAIS 6739]

00

[MAUFRAIS 6739]

Embrace that shit. Keep it stocked with Werthers.

[tbone_ 14443]

I had a friend in high school that drove a maroon one that his grandparents gave him. That thing was uncool and we teased him about it. "Here comes Mike in his old man car."
 

Hell yea. Back seat like a queen sized bed.

[Brisketexan 106890]

I had a friend in high school that drove a maroon one that his grandparents gave him. That thing was uncool and we teased him about it. "Here comes Mike in his old man car."
 

I bet it was comfortable as fuck though and could fit a bunch of people in it.

Hell yea. Back seat like a queen sized bed.

As someone whose first ride was a giant-ass maroon 79 Mercury Marquis….yep to all of these. Bench seats, could take 11 people to the beach. Trunk deep enough to carry 6 bodies….or 20 cases of beer, multiple shotguns, and a bunch of junk food. Lotta great memories in that battle cruiser.

[Homercles 10206]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

What, no love for the timeless Caprice Classic?

Gimme a black Impala SS version and I’m in

[tbone_ 14443]

Gimme a black Impala SS version and I’m in

I’ll take the Marauder

[texasdago 7770]

20 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I never figured most Tesla owners were buying their cars on "looks".  (Lid for every pot I guess)  I don't think the truck will be much different.

They buy them on snark.

I've never liked them... think they are "homely" and soulless.  BUT there's a lot of people who want to buy them.  

[Left Coast 879]

On 6/1/2022 at 11:18 PM, Left Coast said:

Hey Elon, we took a road trip in our Model Y up to the Bay Area over Memorial Day and TWICE when we were going 80 on the interstate in cruise control the car suddenly slammed on its brakes for no fucking reason. Not only did it scare the shit out of us, it for sure scared the shit out of the people behind us. When I got home I googled it and sure enough: 

Tesla is under federal scrutiny for ‘phantom braking’ complaints

https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2022-02-02/tesla-is-under-federal-scrutiny-for-phantom-braking-complaints?_amp=true

So how about fixing your fucking cars before the kill someone (oh wait too late) instead of being concerned where Mary in Payroll is approving timesheets?

God I can’t wait until the Rivian is delivered so we can sell this POS.

Hmmm, well whaddya know…

NHTSA steps up Tesla investigation of phantom braking, crashes into emergency vehicles

As of last month, NHTSA says it’s received 758 reports from folks claiming “unexpected brake activation” in their Model 3 or Model Y. Just today, the NHTSA said it’s upgrading the investigation from “probe” status to an “engineering analysis.” 

https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2022/06/09/nhtsa-investigation-tesla-phantom-braking/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKTn3hNxwOYEK5zkqZZKVDJoufxBKQ0VKbF4DX5_W9xlkiRgtGskLzdYmBUpAO-ZP1O62AiD6Uynwm404ybIWePhPJK6IHmRgSqMeYpsgzEFz2V8EBKZJFTBmDa-xKnZ-zDuR24Mmk9gWrau-DN63B4PhHSESd7_oW-CkaQQ6ewO

[52-80 19377]

Elon is joining the Twitter all-hands meeting this week.  What does that imply?

-He's backing out of the deal:  negative-value activity.  wouldn't make sense that he addresses the entire company simply to announce he's giving up the pursuit / dress them down.

-He's committing to original price:  zero-value activity.  market wide economics have changed a lot in last few weeks and it adds nothing to show up and say "im here".

-He's gonna negotiate the price down:  this seems most likely.  announces he's staying the course.  but also add some critiques of the platform to lower its perceived value.

The cynical 4th option is that he's "pumping" the stock before walking away.  His avg price in is around mid 30s (starting acquiring in Q1).  Twitter is 38 now so at worst his position is flat.  Supposing he can liquidate at profit to offset most of the incoming lawsuits and penalties... not a terrible economic outcome.  But that's really playing with fire...which I suppose is on-brand.  As a holder with 5%+ stake I think he needs to report any change in equity ownership.

 

 

[Homercles 10206]

Or the fifth option is he joins to troll and yell about the bots?

[Vegas64 713]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Elon is joining the Twitter all-hands meeting this week.  What does that imply?

-He's backing out of the deal:  negative-value activity.  wouldn't make sense that he addresses the entire company simply to announce he's giving up the pursuit / dress them down.

-He's committing to original price:  zero-value activity.  market wide economics have changed a lot in last few weeks and it adds nothing to show up and say "im here".

-He's gonna negotiate the price down:  this seems most likely.  announces he's staying the course.  but also add some critiques of the platform to lower its perceived value.

The cynical 4th option is that he's "pumping" the stock before walking away.  His avg price in is around mid 30s (starting acquiring in Q1).  Twitter is 38 now so at worst his position is flat.  Supposing he can liquidate at profit to offset most of the incoming lawsuits and penalties... not a terrible economic outcome.  But that's really playing with fire...which I suppose is on-brand.  As a holder with 5%+ stake I think he needs to report any change in equity ownership.

 

 

I was reading the drama around the Thoma Bravo<> Anaplan deal and how that PE got Anaplan to accept a lower offer, post-M&A deal, due to the loss in market value the past few weeks/months through reasons couched in legalese and contract reasons. I think Musk is trying to do the same, and to be fair, it's smart business.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Vegas64

[Blotto 24018]

https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/16/elon-musk-twitter-meeting-role-product/

Quote

In a company-wide Twitter call today, presumptive buyer Elon Musk answered questions from “tweeps” for the first time.

Will the Tesla and SpaceX CEO’s $44 billion offer to buy Twitter actually go through? Your guess is as good as mine — but the market downturn means that his offer is a bit more steep than it was initially, causing him to drag his feet and dwell on the problem of bots. And if the deal goes through, what will his role be? Who knows. But Musk’s Q&A with Twitter employees at least shed a bit of light as to where his head is at.

According to a New York Times liveblog of the 45-minute call, Musk said he isn’t quite sure what his title at the company will be. But he particularly wants to be involved in product and expects the team to listen to his input on new features. He also added that he’s very involved at Tesla, and he would adopt a similar leadership style at Twitter.

As layoffs sweep the tech industry, some Twitter employees asked about how Musk’s potential acquisition might affect their jobs (questions were relayed through Leslie Berland, Twitter’s chief marketing officer).

Again, Musk was vague in his response.

“Right now, costs exceed revenue. That’s not a great situation,” he said regarding potential layoffs. Musk has also warned employees about job cuts at Tesla, where he plans to reduce headcount by 10%.

Right now, about a quarter of Twitter’s employees work from home. But earlier this month, Musk sent Tesla employees an email with the subject line “To be super clear,” stating that all employees need to spend a minimum of 40 hours in the office each week.

“Moreover, the office must be where your actual colleagues are located, not some remote pseudo office,” he wrote.

Musk told Twitter employees that it is “much better if you are on location physically,” but that exceptional employees might be able to work remotely. This is because the business of running a social media platform is far different from building cars or rockets, which Musk believes is “impossible to do remotely.”

“The more senior you are, the more visible must be your presence,” he wrote in his message to Tesla employees. He claimed that Tesla would have gone bankrupt had he not spent time in the factories, where “those on the line could see [him] working alongside them.”

As expected, Musk wants to make Twitter a private company once the deal closes, saying that the platform can be more productive without having to appease activist shareholders.

Yet the acquisition itself is still up in the air — Musk has claimed that the deal is “on hold” until Twitter can prove that its claims about the number of bots on the platform are legitimate, and Twitter handed over its “firehose” of data. So if he does want to get out of the deal, it won’t be easy.

“Twitter has and will continue to cooperatively share information with Mr. Musk to consummate the transaction in accordance with the terms of the merger agreement,” Twitter said in a statement to TechCrunch last week. “We intend to close the transaction and enforce the merger agreement at the agreed price and terms.”

 

[Captainant 28537]

Reuters: Elon Musk sued for $258 billion over alleged Dogecoin pyramid scheme

Quote

 

NEW YORK, June 16 (Reuters) - Elon Musk was sued for $258 billion on Thursday by a Dogecoin investor who accused him of running a pyramid scheme to support the cryptocurrency.

In a complaint filed in federal court in Manhattan, plaintiff Keith Johnson accused Musk, electric car company Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) and space tourism company SpaceX of racketeering for touting Dogecoin and driving up its price, only to then let the price tumble.

Musk is CEO of both Tesla and SpaceX.

"Defendants were aware since 2019 that Dogecoin had no value yet promoted Dogecoin to profit from its trading," the complaint said. "Musk used his pedestal as World's Richest man to operate and manipulate the Dogecoin Pyramid Scheme for profit, exposure and amusement."

The complaint also aggregates comments from Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and others questioning the value of cryptocurrency.

Tesla, SpaceX and a lawyer for Musk did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

A lawyer for Johnson did not immediately respond to requests for comment on what specific evidence his client has or expects to have that proves Dogecoin is worthless and the defendants ran a pyramid scheme.

Johnson is seeking $86 billion in damages, representing the decline in Dogecoin's market value since May 2021, and wants it tripled.

He also wants to block Musk and his companies from promoting Dogecoin and a judge to declare that trading Dogecoin is gambling under federal and New York law.

The complaint said Dogecoin's selloff began around the time Musk hosted the NBC show "Saturday Night Live and, playing a fictitious financial expert on a "Weekend Update" segment, called Dogecoin "a hustle."

Tesla in February 2021 said it had bought $1.5 billion of bitcoin and for a short time accepted it as payment for vehicles.

Dogecoin traded at about 5.8 cents on Thursday, down from its May 2021 peak of about 74 cents.

The case is Johnson v. Musk et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, No. 22-05037.

 

 

[F250 29200]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Reuters: Elon Musk sued for $258 billion over alleged Dogecoin pyramid scheme

 

Musk to this Joshnson cat.

 

[Not that Bob 743]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/elon-musk-s-boring-co-is-feuding-with-texas-over-a-driveway?srnd=technology-vp

[Blotto 24018]

Quote

"Defendants were everyone on the planet with a brain was aware since 2019 that Dogecoin had no value 

fixed for accuracy

[HOOKEM4 5176]

51 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-15/elon-musk-s-boring-co-is-feuding-with-texas-over-a-driveway?srnd=technology-vp

A fucking driveway permit. Lulz. 

Txdot should make them rip it out for being so fucking lazy. That is the easiest gd thing to do. Idiots.

[StruggleBus 3922]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Reuters: Elon Musk sued for $258 billion over alleged Dogecoin pyramid scheme

 

[Not that Bob 743]

57 minutes ago, HOOKEM4 said:

A fucking driveway permit. Lulz. 

Txdot should make them rip it out for being so fucking lazy. That is the easiest gd thing to do. Idiots.

More importantly, further down the article is brief mention of failure to get septic permits, for what will likely be a large operation, including families currently living there in trailers. This is close to the Colorado River and water/septic should be meticulous. 

[atomheartbevo 90644]

They are expanding their subway in Vegas

 

[HOOKEM4 5176]

1 hour ago, Not that Bob said:

More importantly, further down the article is brief mention of failure to get septic permits, for what will likely be a large operation, including families currently living there in trailers. This is close to the Colorado River and water/septic should be meticulous. 

All the permits they needed are simple to get but will take maybe 2 months. They didn't want to play because they think they are above the law. Watch hotwheels grease the wheels at txdot and tceq to make it all go away. He is going to open the floodgates for big money to wonder why they aren't getting their way in these matters. It will end badly.  All because these idiots couldn't be bothered to get a rubber stamp permit. 

[Francisco 2.0 32587]

https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/17/23172262/spacex-fires-employees-open-letter-elon-musk-complaints

 

Quote

SpaceX has fired a number of employees who wrote and shared a letter criticizing the behavior of CEO Elon Musk, with the company’s president criticizing the letter as “overreaching activism.”

The open letter, first reported by The Verge, described Musk’s behavior as “a frequent source of distraction and embarrassment for us, particularly in recent weeks.” It cites SpaceX’s “No Asshole” policy and asks the company to “publicly address and condemn Elon’s harmful Twitter behavior.”

 

Quote

Said the letter writers: “As our CEO and most prominent spokesperson, Elon is seen as the face of SpaceX — every Tweet that Elon sends is a de facto public statement by the company. It is critical to make clear to our teams and to our potential talent pool that his messaging does not reflect our work, our mission, or our values.”

A number of the letter’s drafters were fired Thursday afternoon, according to an email sent by SpaceX president Gwynne Shotwell and seen by The Verge. News of the firing was first reported by The New York Times.

 

Quote

In the email, Shotwell said SpaceX had “terminated a number of employees involved” in crafting the letter. “The letter, solicitations and general process made employees feel uncomfortable, intimidated and bullied, and/or angry because the letter pressured them to sign onto something that did not reflect their views,” wrote Shotwell. “We have too much critical work to accomplish and no need for this kind of overreaching activism.”

One employee who had input in writing the letter, who asked to remain anonymous, argued that the general sentiment among other employees is that Shotwell’s email is “tone deaf.” The employee claimed that the letter was the result of a “month of dedicated hard work and soliciting feedback to try and make sure we got as much input as possible.”

 

 

[Js1 87181]

Nice retaliation there 

[Hefeweizen 5444]

The lack of permits for the Tesla facility in Travis county is well known.  Anyone else who did this would have been publicly shamed.  But the county, city of Austin, and state of Texas bent over for it.  
 

It is ludicrous and an affront to all the developers in central Texas who follow the gotdam rules.   It happened before with COTA and it’s going on with Samsung in Taylor.   If hot wheels (or perry for COTA) is backing you and you bring “jobs” however many actually end up here, you’re golden.