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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

MaybeACoordinator

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13731

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3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

90% of people who threaten “ill never buy [xxx] if/because of [unrelated reason]”….never intended to buy the thing in the first place

5% of them do it anyway

 

You may be right but evidence says a majority of people buy from companies that share their values. This purchasing behavior continues to grow especially by younger people. Obviously people sometimes have to buy from companies that don't share their values. Either via ignorance or they just don't have a choice.

Tesla = Elon to many people. If they think his views and values are bad (or good), there is zero chance that doesn't impact their views on Tesla.  It's like how people considered Apple and Steve Jobs to by synonymous.

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Fastbreak

Fastbreak 4049

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Posted
You may be right but evidence says a majority of people buy from companies that share their values. This purchasing behavior continues to grow especially by younger people. Obviously people sometimes have to buy from companies that don't share their values. Either via ignorance or they just don't have a choice.
Tesla = Elon to many people. If they think his views and values are bad (or good), there is zero chance that doesn't impact their views on Tesla.  It's like how people considered Apple and Steve Jobs to by synonymous.

I worked at Apple for 3 years. I’ve made tons of games and apps for the Mac and iPhone. I’ve had a #1 game on both the free and paid iOS charts. I’ve bought 100’s if not thousands of Apple products - I have never once thoughts about Steve Jobs or Tim Cook’s values or views.
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chainsaw

chainsaw 10292

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7 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:


I worked at Apple for 3 years. I’ve made tons of games and apps for the Mac and iPhone. I’ve had a #1 game on both the free and paid iOS charts. I’ve bought 100’s if not thousands of Apple products - I have never once thoughts about Steve Jobs or Tim Cook’s values or views.

Have you ever boycotted anything

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Ag with kids

Ag with kids 581

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You may be right but evidence says a majority of people buy from companies that share their values. This purchasing behavior continues to grow especially by younger people. Obviously people sometimes have to buy from companies that don't share their values. Either via ignorance or they just don't have a choice.

Tesla = Elon to many people. If they think his views and values are bad (or good), there is zero chance that doesn't impact their views on Tesla.  It's like how people considered Apple and Steve Jobs to by synonymous.

People think Apple is dead?

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13731

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8 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:


I worked at Apple for 3 years. I’ve made tons of games and apps for the Mac and iPhone. I’ve had a #1 game on both the free and paid iOS charts. I’ve bought 100’s if not thousands of Apple products - I have never once thoughts about Steve Jobs or Tim Cook’s values or views.

Let's go with a hypothetical where we have Elon saying that he supports the white power movement. (Note, I don't think he does.) According to you, Tesla sales would have not change in any way. Do you really believe that?

Obviously less extreme views and values differences have less extreme impact but the impact still exists. 

 

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52-80

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Posted
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19 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You may be right but evidence says a majority of people buy from companies that share their values. This purchasing behavior continues to grow especially by younger people. Obviously people sometimes have to buy from companies that don't share their values. Either via ignorance or they just don't have a choice.

Tesla = Elon to many people. If they think his views and values are bad (or good), there is zero chance that doesn't impact their views on Tesla.  It's like how people considered Apple and Steve Jobs to by synonymous.

These things are about as toothless as claims of moving to canada

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23470

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18 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:


I worked at Apple for 3 years. I’ve made tons of games and apps for the Mac and iPhone. I’ve had a #1 game on both the free and paid iOS charts. I’ve bought 100’s if not thousands of Apple products - I have never once thoughts about Steve Jobs or Tim Cook’s values or views.

Earning a living off those companies vs using your paycheck to buy from those companies are 2 totally different things. You think some of the people who work for Facebook like working for Facebook or like their dipshit CEO? 

I've stopped using and buying from companies whose values I don't agree with. 

I've never bought from my pillow but I sure the fuck am not going to buy from my pillow. I will be in the the market for a EV in the next few years but I'm sure the fuck not going to buy from Tesla. Their quality is shit, plus the CEO is a fuckhead. I try not to help fuckheads and fuckhead companies if I have a choice.

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52-80

52-80 19377

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15 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Lulz. There are plenty of companies which I am mindful to boycott. Bill Miller, Chik-Fil-A, Tyson's Tacos, Facebook, KEYE, Brawny, Dixie, Angel Soft, Goya...just to name a few. 

Fuck restaurants that dont serve on a weekend

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Chopper

Chopper 17432

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Let's go with a hypothetical where we have Elon saying that he supports the white power movement. (Note, I don't think he does.) According to you, Tesla sales would have not change in any way. Do you really believe that?

Obviously less extreme views and values differences have less extreme impact but the impact still exists. 

 

For the record, I own tesla solar panels and considered purchasing one of their EVs until very recently when I saw their shitty reliability ratings. Musk's personal lunacy and severe psychological imbalance isn't a big deal to me as a consumer. My experience with Tesla's solar panel customer service has been shitty, slow and unreliable but that was early in the pandemic so I'm uncertain if that remains their status. 

I'm interested in the Twitter acquisition saga because it hits on many of my long-time interests: media, politics, and M&A. Also it was an outrageous clown show from the very start. I don't have a twitter account but I regularly check the feeds of several journalists and read the news. I have a couple newspaper subscriptions, as well. But twitter is by far the most interesting news media for me. I especially like the way I use it - just bookmark the accounts I want and read those, or search for certain subject matter. It limits if not eliminates their ability to feed me ads or topics, and it eliminates my ability to interact with any of the assholes on there and I rarely encounter any bots.

As for "boycotts" ...I try not to purchase anything made by the Koch Companies conglomerate because they actively financially support white supremacists. Facebook supports white supremacy with the way they manage their platform, so they're a big nope from me. However if I tried to boycott or avoid every corporation that did something I didn't like, I'd lose my mind. The way our country fails to adequately regulate corporations is a real problem for our economy so generally I try to avoid whatever large corporations I can, and purchase locally. The one lifetime commitment I made is mostly intact -- I haven't purchased fuel from Exxon (and now Mobil) since the Valdez.

edit - oh yeah, Goya, as @crash_davispoints out is on my list. I avoid chick fila but mostly just cause their food sucks.

Edited by Chopper
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Ag with kids

Ag with kids 581

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Posted
6 hours ago, crash_davis said:

Lulz. There are plenty of companies which I am mindful to boycott. Bill Miller, Chik-Fil-A, Tyson's Tacos, Facebook, KEYE, Brawny, Dixie, Angel Soft, Goya...just to name a few. 

I'm not sure I would classify not going to someplace because their BBQ is fucking shitty as a "boycott".

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pronghorn

pronghorn 44

Posted
Posted

not a lawyer but ran M&A/investments for a few companies.

  • bookman is an idiot about Twitter/Elon leverage
  • fair amount of case law for these situations but rare occurrence for a deal to fall apart like this
  • Elon is likely hosed in some way with range of possibilities from i) forced to complete the deal ii) pay break-up fee iii) negotiated resolution or iv) break-up fee plus damages
  • likely won't take years and only a few months as DE courts don't fuck around
  • this would be a fun case to be involved in as long as you don't work for Elon
  • who really fucking knows what will happen as Elon is a wild card
  • even though twitter mgmt did not want to do the deal, twitter HAD to move forward with the deal as investor lawsuits would have been so damaging to the company that is already so horribly run
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Ag with kids

Ag with kids 581

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1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

Fried chicken is good, especially for the price. BBQ is beyond the suck.

I've heard that about the Fried Chicken.  But, I have a Good and Crisp 2 min from my house, and it's the best I've had.

And I still have ZERO idea how they exist with their BBQ...especially being only an hour away from BBQ central in Lockhart/Luling.

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18288

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I've heard that about the Fried Chicken.  But, I have a Good and Crisp 2 min from my house, and it's the best I've had.
And I still have ZERO idea how they exist with their BBQ...especially being only an hour away from BBQ central in Lockhart/Luling.

Lockhart and Luling are only marginally better than Bill Miller these days.
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Ag with kids

Ag with kids 581

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19 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:


Lockhart and Luling are only marginally better than Bill Miller these days.

They haven't regressed THAT much.

Just because other places have gotten better than them doesn't mean that they're still not orders of magnitudes better than most BBQ places...

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wild_turkey

wild_turkey 3296

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I will be in the the market for a EV in the next few years but I'm sure the fuck not going to buy from Tesla. Their quality is shit


Why do you (and a handful of other posters) keep saying this? Honest question.

I completely understand thinking TSLA is overvalued or thinking Elon is a jackass, but I don’t understand why some people keep saying Tesla vehicles are shit.

My wife has a Model Y and it’s my favorite car we’ve ever owned. We looked at multiple other EVs before buying this one and it seemed the best option at the time. It has great range, pretty good charging options, comfortable, spacious, easy and fun to drive, and we’ve had no quality problems.

What, specifically, am I overlooking here?
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pops

pops 7142

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Posted
2 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

 


Why do you (and a handful of other posters) keep saying this? Honest question.

I completely understand thinking TSLA is overvalued or thinking Elon is a jackass, but I don’t understand why some people keep saying Tesla vehicles are shit.

My wife has a Model Y and it’s my favorite car we’ve ever owned. We looked at multiple other EVs before buying this one and it seemed the best option at the time. It has great range, pretty good charging options, comfortable, spacious, easy and fun to drive, and we’ve had no quality problems.

What, specifically, am I overlooking here?

 

Panel gaps. 

Tesla shoved the US and pretty much the world into the ev realm. And that's a big deal and good for them. But,  drive a taycan and then drive any tesla and you will see the difference between a tech company that makes cars and a car company that makes EVs

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AeroHorn

AeroHorn 793

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Yeah, the panel gaps have become a meme now. The people still seem to flock to Tesla though since their 4-year-old cars are selling for the same price as new ones. 

Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc. have their own reliability issues; Tesla's seem to be more cosmetic.

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Blotto

Blotto 24020

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Posted
50 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

 


Why do you (and a handful of other posters) keep saying this? Honest question.

I completely understand thinking TSLA is overvalued or thinking Elon is a jackass, but I don’t understand why some people keep saying Tesla vehicles are shit.

My wife has a Model Y and it’s my favorite car we’ve ever owned. We looked at multiple other EVs before buying this one and it seemed the best option at the time. It has great range, pretty good charging options, comfortable, spacious, easy and fun to drive, and we’ve had no quality problems.

What, specifically, am I overlooking here?

 

a sample size of 1 is probably not large enough to make any determinations

https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/

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F250

F250 29201

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2 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

I've heard that about the Fried Chicken.  But, I have a Good and Crisp 2 min from my house, and it's the best I've had.

And I still have ZERO idea how they exist with their BBQ...especially being only an hour away from BBQ central in Lockhart/Luling.

Bill Miller isn't really about the barbecue. Their hook is they serve reasonably good food in large portions at a decent price.  Even their brisket is decent as a poor boy sandwich but I definitely wouldn't order it as a main entree. Their breakfast is legit.

 

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52-80

52-80 19377

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Posted
6 hours ago, pops said:

Panel gaps. 

Tesla shoved the US and pretty much the world into the ev realm. And that's a big deal and good for them. But,  drive a taycan and then drive any tesla and you will see the difference between a tech company that makes cars and a car company that makes EVs

If it's possible to walk out of the dealership with a Taycan for less than $100k, i'd get 2 of them to drive.  But it's not, so the comparison is moot. 

For the price, Tesla makes a stonkingly good car.  Have you genuinely spent time with one?  They do all the things wild_turkey said, and the dynamics are way beyond where they have any business in.  I say this having been a huge skeptic and car nerd.

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bullzak

bullzak 428

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Posted

Seems like the biggest issue here relative to normal civil litigation is Delaware Chancery. I haven't paid that much attention but if they have a rocket docket and can get to finality much faster than you can in regular court, Musks leverage erodes in a hurry, aside from all the legal arguments. 

I am tangentially involved in Tribune Bankruptcy that is finally on life support after 12 years and having only gotten into procedural maneuvering with no discovery etc. Last count a few years ago the legal bills were a quarter of a billion. 

On paper he is screwed. His only real leverage is the financial torture of long term grinding litigation but that may not be in play here. Surely Skadden advised him of that and he ignored them. 

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Captainant

Captainant 28539

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Posted
13 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I have 3 friends that bought Teslas.  Two of them bitched endlessly about the workmanship and sold them w/in a year; the other dude loves his and thinks it's the best built car he's ever owned.  /shoulder shrug/  

opinions/assholes

With Tesla's they've got a broad range of quality that rolls off the line. Some cars are peaches, some cars are lemons in terms of fit and finish. 

Also haven't seen it mentioned much, but Tesla has had a massive number of recalls it's had to issue for safety and roadworthiness issues. They're still deep in integration hell learning how to build a car. Tesla may have some of the coolest and newest tech, but your car should be a nice car above being a tech demo

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elguapo

elguapo 4620

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

 


Why do you (and a handful of other posters) keep saying this? Honest question.

I completely understand thinking TSLA is overvalued or thinking Elon is a jackass, but I don’t understand why some people keep saying Tesla vehicles are shit.

My wife has a Model Y and it’s my favorite car we’ve ever owned. We looked at multiple other EVs before buying this one and it seemed the best option at the time. It has great range, pretty good charging options, comfortable, spacious, easy and fun to drive, and we’ve had no quality problems.

What, specifically, am I overlooking here?

 

sample size?

https://www.yahoo.com/video/jd-power-dependability-survey-places-154311629.html

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wild_turkey

wild_turkey 3296

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Posted
Toyota is finally getting in the game with the bz4X crossover. Pretty good looking vehicle for $40K. I’d probably rather get it than most Tesla models.

Significantly lower range compared to almost all Tesla models. It’s listed at 252 miles which in the real world is probably closer to 200 miles. That may not matter for some people, but it would be a deal breaker for me.
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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8886

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19 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

i used to work with a guy from Louisiana that did it. the step daughter turned 18, he kicked out the wife and bought the new gf / old step daughter a brand new camero. love at first sight 

Yeah, it’s not really believable that he waited until she was 18. That guy was abusing his kid

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 15136

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Posted
I don't follow this shit closely as I'm neither a fanboy nor its inverse.  The haters seem to be most prevalent here.  Is this based on politics of some kind? Everything else is these days, so I assume the hatred of Musk is based on his having different political opinions than his detractors. Is he a pro-life, thin blue line loving, fundie weirdo or something?  Whatever it is, the love and hate for this man is fascinating.   Maybe the dislike is based on our reliving the 1890's, complete with insanely wealthy individuals who don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us?  That bothers me too, especially when I think about what that type of culture and economy led to last go round (WWI and WWII).
All I'm hoping this story does is shine a light on how insignificant Twitter and other social media truly are.  The sunshine pumping bullshit that has so many people convinced that these platforms actually have any kind of meaningful impact (even Musk seems to buy into this notion) are insane.  If you're an active user your head is so far up your own ass you can't see it for what it is.  That tech bros can still peddle their lackluster products to people under the guise of somehow making the world a better or more connected place is mind boggling.  Seemingly intelligent people actually believe this shit.  Bill Burr's send up of Steve Jobs (linked upthread somewhere) was on point.  These people don't really create anything.  They don't add value.  They suck value from their customers. They've made the world a worse place.  But that only happens because a segment of our society actually give credence to the value of these shoddy products. 
Of course Twitter is full of bots, just like every other social media.  The percentage of criminals looking to scam people likely makes up a significant portion of the actual human users.  These platforms do not add value.  They lure you in with bullshit and keep you engaged while they suck out your soul for profit.

Political Twitter is the worst thing ever, but sports Twitter is fucking awesome.
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