Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

Do you know what nemesis means ?

[SizzleChest 8283]

26 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Twitter is about to absorb a bunch of the debt that Elon took on to buy twitter. They're not gonna be long for this world. Thankfully. 

He's going to fill that toilet up with more shit and will keep flushing it until it explodes all over someone else.

Zuck and Jack will cheer him on, of course.

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

The whole buying companies with the companies own money is really kind of strange. I imagine that Elon will lose plenty of money out of this deal, but other people will lose a lot more.

There is no such concept. In a sale there is a purchase price adjustment where cash is given a 1:1 versus typical working capital tied up in float. This entire thread is like a middle school student council tantrum.

[NAVY 6740]

8 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

We all know how this ends: Musk takes over, fires 80% of the staff because he thinks the Entourage Ari meme is funny and he doesn’t like it when people tell him no, the site is quickly overwhelmed by pedophiles and anti semites, normal users abandon it, Musk expresses surprise it all happened, then cheekily trolls something else, fan bois Jack off to the new obsession,  and musk loses interest. 
 

Twitter rots and functional dies. Don’t think it will happen? Look what happened to Tumblr after they banned porn.

Be real original if users posted scat all over the place before abandoning ship. Some kind on 280 character temple of shit 

[wildcat09 29347]

6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Elon will lose more money than he should, because he did this in a hurry, but generally the Uber wealthy don’t use their own money and assets on buying things.  They use debt then monetize that debt to other investors. 

The fun part here is Elon spent months saying that all of Twitter’s financial disclosures were fraudulent. What’s he going to do, suddenly say tomorrow that he was mistaken and actually they were on the up and up the whole time?

I mean, the answer to that is obviously yes but who will believe him?

[pantone159 719]

25 minutes ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

There is no such concept. In a sale there is a purchase price adjustment where cash is given a 1:1 versus typical working capital tied up in float. This entire thread is like a middle school student council tantrum.

I don't mean the cash that Twitter has on hand. I mean the $13 billion in debt that Twitter will be responsible for, that is part of the purchase price.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

Wouldn’t his financing deal be structured with non-Twitter assets as collateral? I don’t see someone loaning him billions just so he can put that debt on twitter’s balance sheet to either declare bankruptcy or hand over a worthless company to the creditors.

if/when this goes belly up, Elon is selling or handing over some of his Tesla stock. Or spacex shares.

or maybe he can make something with Twitter but that isn’t happening with just dropping moderation. That won’t increase ad revenue, and possibly decreases it. 

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

I don't mean the cash that Twitter has on hand. I mean the $13 billion in debt that Twitter will be responsible for, that is part of the purchase price.

Buying debt is very common. It means a buyer is agreeing to pick up known liabilities/ obligations which is synonymous with paying cash.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4739]

47 minutes ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

There is no such concept. In a sale there is a purchase price adjustment where cash is given a 1:1 versus typical working capital tied up in float. This entire thread is like a middle school student council tantrum.

What?

There is no purchase price adjustment in a public deal. The per share price is the per share price.

The poster you are responding to is lambasting the LBO construct.

Middle school indeed.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Reynolds Woodcock

[Humble Beast 258]

52 minutes ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

I’m a bi-polar centrist who floats votes left and right. I haven’t watched too close but from afar have been perplexed by this sentiment. Help me ?

People are worried that he’ll open up Twitter to users that had been expelled, such as Trump. Given that almost all the heavy moderation/censorship was anti-Right, then the reversal of this will lead to a hellscape. 
 

Imagine, none of this would’ve happened if the woke crew that ran Twitter hadn’t banned the Babylon Bee account. Lol

[Reynolds Woodcock 4739]

16 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Wouldn’t his financing deal be structured with non-Twitter assets as collateral? I don’t see someone loaning him billions just so he can put that debt on twitter’s balance sheet to either declare bankruptcy or hand over a worthless company to the creditors.

if/when this goes belly up, Elon is selling or handing over some of his Tesla stock. Or spacex shares.

or maybe he can make something with Twitter but that isn’t happening with just dropping moderation. That won’t increase ad revenue, and possibly decreases it. 

The debt is classic LBO debt that will go on the company’s balance sheet secured by its assets. Nothing more nothing less.  Supposedly Musk borrowed cash separately to fund part of his equity, which may have been secured by Tesla shares, but that’s not Twitter debt.

 

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

What?
There is no purchase price adjustment in a public deal. The per share price is the per share price.
The poster you are responding to is lambasting the LBO construct.
Middle school indeed.

Touché on public versus private PP adjustments, but semantics, no, as you don’t buy a company with its own cash? What happens to cash on the balance sheet relative to equity holders?

[Macklemore 2876]

[Hefeweizen 5310]

9 hours ago, Cornpop said:

How do you know what he's going to do?

He read in his whataburger employee guide.  Before it was stolen from his Brodozer.

 

I really think this is going to go similar to ShaggyBevo and the asshole Eskimo man, but it will take time.  
 

Popcorn gif time.

[pantone159 719]

11 minutes ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

Touché on public versus private PP adjustments, but semantics, no, as you don’t buy a company with its own cash? What happens to cash on the balance sheet relative to equity holders?

I didn't mean that Musk bought Twitter with literally the cash Twitter had on hand, but there is $13 billion that is now in the pocket of Twitter shareholders (as of this morning) that Twitter, not Musk, is now responsible for paying back.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4739]

21 minutes ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

Touché on public versus private PP adjustments, but semantics, no, as you don’t buy a company with its own cash? What happens to cash on the balance sheet relative to equity holders?

I don’t understand what you are asking. Musk’s holding company agreed to pay $X per share, and that’s what the shareholders get, nothing more nothing less regardless of Twitter’s cash balance, working capital or debt. Some of that $X is funded with equity capital coming from Musk (more or less), some of it is coming from new debt put on twitter’s balance sheet.

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

I didn't mean that Musk bought Twitter with literally the cash Twitter had on hand, but there is $13 billion that is now in the pocket of Twitter shareholders (as of this morning) that Twitter, not Musk, is now responsible for paying back.

roger that

[Humble Beast 258]

 

[InkaUtexas 25875]

How many middle fingers do you think were sent to him? 

[gsoda3 3251]

this thread used to be informational but then a few of you escaped the cloak room.  please keep your biases there. 

[royiv 9269]

7 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Its well-known that Trump inherited his dads real estate business. Elon’s rumored help from his father - from whom he’s been long estranged - has never ever been substantiated.

Anyone that knows better is welcomed go share.

He was a principal in tech businesses that converged to Paypal, so his wealth building is pretty easy to retrace. 

Ive held from the start of this thread that hes clumsy, brash, and irreverent. 

But his track record proves an shrewd businessman also. That people try to bet against that undeniable truth is farcical.

My opinion is he provides a ton of entertainment for what he/his business does, and for how many people he gets absolutely riled up. This thread case in point. 

How do you feel about his stance on Putin and Ukraine?

[Captainant 27639]

It's funny how humble beast got back from his timeout for posting Russian talking points in the Ukraine war thread, only to come right back to culture warring. Never change, you useful idiots. 

[52-80 19147]

3 hours ago, royiv said:

How do you feel about his stance on Putin and Ukraine?

-he's broadly right for favoring de-escalation (im personally also antiwar)

-he's specifically wrong for not castigating putin as the unprovoked aggressor

-he's ill-advised to have commented on hot button political topic (although it is on brand...)

how do you feel?

there's also a bit where it appeared he publicly razzed russia over their military failure in bakhmut, which people ran with as proof of russian support/complicity... which is emblematic of how rabid the maelstrom is over every thing he says/does.

 

 

[South Austin 52456]

He eats children!

[DigglerontheHoof 21183]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

-he's broadly right for favoring de-escalation (im personally also antiwar)

-he's specifically wrong for not castigating putin as the unprovoked aggressor

-he's ill-advised to have commented on hot button political topic (although it is on brand...)

how do you feel?

there's also a bit where it appeared he publicly razzed russia over their military failure in bakhmut, which people ran with as proof of russian support/complicity... which is emblematic of how rabid the maelstrom is over every thing he says/does.

 

 

so you're a Putin appeaser 

[52-80 19147]

5 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

so you're a Putin appeaser 

life must be so simple in binary town

[DigglerontheHoof 21183]

Just now, 52-80 said:

life must be so simple in binary town

until Russia is out of Ukraine, this is a binary issue

[Bookman 4638]

This Elon Musk guy sure used his leverage well and showed Twitter what's up.

[wildcat09 29347]

Money well spent?

[956 Worldwide 34704]

[Neonmoon 38129]

I’m also personally anti-war. I’m also not a child and can understand a country not wanting to give up part of its county to murderers that murdered and raped its population just to stop war. 

[956 Worldwide 34704]

4 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I’m also personally anti-war. I’m also not a child and can understand a country not wanting to give up part of its county to murderers that murdered and raped its population just to stop war. 

Deescalation is a process and not a destination. Russia could deescalate unilaterally today, and I’d be in favor of it.

Anyone throwing around “deescalation” should have to explain what, precisely, conditions they want to facilitate deescalation.  Just like “negotiations.” Spell out what, exactly you think is reasonable for Ukraine to horsetrade, and for that matter what Russia should give up.

Most people never do the above because they haven’t thought about it and confuse diplomatic terms with diplomacy— or they realize how unacceptable their idea is in public discourse. 

[52-80 19147]

Deescalation != cessation.  Its a directional goal in that you want every incremental step to be less-worse than before.
 

 If an amenable resolution was easy and obvious, it wouldve been done. 

[Brisketexan 105080]

Deescalation != cessation.  Its a directional goal in that you want every incremental step to be less-worse than before.
 
 If an amenable resolution was easy and obvious, it wouldve been done. 

“De-escalation” while an invader still holds a huge chunk of your territory = “surrender that territory.”
This isn’t a naval battle, or brinksmanship. It’s an invasion. Imagine proposing “de-escalation” if Mexico had invaded Texas and still held 1/3 of it. Just nuts.

[Neonmoon 38129]

10 hours ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

I’m a bi-polar centrist who floats votes left and right. I haven’t watched too close but from afar have been perplexed by this sentiment. Help me ?

 

14 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m so confused by all of the conflict in this thread. We should all be completely in agreement that he’s a giant prick who used inherited wealth to create two of the most amazing companies in the US. There plenty to hate and admire for all of us. 

Let me explain the conflict. 

As I stated in post #6 of this very thread, Elon is easily a visionary. In fact, the majority of people commenting agreed with as much. SpaceX and Tesla are visionary companies that produce great products that are valuable. Elon should be lauded for their creation, and celebrated as one of the greatest entrepreneurs in American History. 

Subsequently, Elon has said some very stupid things that are continuously mocked by some of the same people that celebrate him for two visionary companies. I am one of those people. I am capable of complex thoughts where I can recognize the brilliance of SpaceX and Tesla but also recognize the absolute stupidity of his positions on free speech, "citizen journalism", and carrying Russia's water on Ukraine. So if he does something great, I will say it's great. If he does something stupid, I will say it's stupid. 

However, there are other people that either don't think his positions on these issues are stupid, or just like that he's on their "team", and are williung to defend the stupidity on these positions. 

NO ONE is in disagreement about the brilliance of SpaceX or Tesla (except the poster who started the thread maybe)

[NoName 16351]

10 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Elon will lose more money than he should, because he did this in a hurry, but generally the Uber wealthy don’t use their own money and assets on buying things.  They use debt then monetize that debt to other investors. 

also because he waived due diligence (could have answered a lot of questions/led to lower purchase price), ignored lawyers, etc.

[Celery Man 20933]

There’s a huge problem in this country of otherwise capable people (as well as morons) becoming insanely stupid through a gradual process of mental poisoning. Elon is a wonderful example of how being fairly brilliant or accomplished in one area can cause that to play out when you are ignorant in other areas, or when critical thinking begins to atrophy as you get addicted to the dopamine hit of self affirmation. A much more low key libtard(?) version of that is Nate Silver.

[Celery Man 20933]

The most insane version of that at the moment is Kanye goddamn

[Jkwellborn 6694]

He eats children!

Are they his? Could be why he’s got more babies than a Cromartie.

[Humble Beast 258]

Tackling the tough issues first day. 
 

 

54 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Money well spent?

Opponents spin up bots to post inflammatory content as soon as he takes over? Not shocking in the least. 

[Homercles 10205]

The only way I really use Twitter is via other sites, like here, where people post tweets…so I don’t really have a dog in this fight.  
 

That being said, if Musk really does drastically reduce moderation and it becomes a heavyweight Parler then best of luck to them…because I think you’ll see advertisers bail as all the fuckboi trolls inundate it with trash, as appears to already be happening.  
 

So out comes the popcorn, I’ll be watching on the sidelines and will be pleasantly surprised if this doesn’t go sideways within six months. 

[Celery Man 20933]

Obvious sock

[Bateshorn 9927]

16 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

There’s a huge problem in this country of otherwise capable people (as well as morons) becoming insanely stupid through a gradual process of mental poisoning. Elon is a wonderful example of how being fairly brilliant or accomplished in one area can cause that to play out when you are ignorant in other areas, or when critical thinking begins to atrophy as you get addicted to the dopamine hit of self affirmation. A much more low key libtard(?) version of that is Nate Silver.

Never get high on your own supply. 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/28/23428132/elon-musk-twitter-acquisition-problems-speech-moderation

 

Quote

You fucked up real good, kiddo.

Twitter is a disaster clown car company that is successful despite itself, and there is no possible way to grow users and revenue without making a series of enormous compromises that will ultimately destroy your reputation and possibly cause grievous damage to your other companies.

I say this with utter confidence because the problems with Twitter are not engineering problems. They are political problems. Twitter, the company, makes very little interesting technology; the tech stack is not the valuable asset. The asset is the user base: hopelessly addicted politicians, reporters, celebrities, and other people who should know better but keep posting anyway. You! You, Elon Musk, are addicted to Twitter. You’re the asset. You just bought yourself for $44 billion dollars.

 

Quote

The problem when the asset is people is that people are intensely complicated, and trying to regulate how people behave is historically a miserable experience, especially when that authority is vested in a single powerful individual.

What I mean is that you are now the King of Twitter, and people think that you, personally, are responsible for everything that happens on Twitter now. It also turns out that absolute monarchs usually get murdered when shit goes sideways.

 

Spoiler

Here are some examples: you can write as many polite letters to advertisers as you want, but you cannot reasonably expect to collect any meaningful advertising revenue if you do not promise those advertisers “brand safety.” That means you have to ban racism, sexism, transphobia, and all kinds of other speech that is totally legal in the United States but reveals people to be total assholes. So you can make all the promises about “free speech” you want, but the dull reality is that you still have to ban a bunch of legal speech if you want to make money. And when you start doing that, your creepy new right-wing fanboys are going to viciously turn on you, just like they turn on every other social network that realizes the same essential truth.

Actually, there’s a step before trying to get the ad money: it turns out that most people do not want to participate in horrible unmoderated internet spaces full of shitty racists and not-all-men fedora bullies. (This is why Twitter is so small compared to its peers!) What most people want from social media is to have nice experiences and to feel validated all the time. They want to live at Disney World. So if you want more people to join Twitter and actually post tweets, you have to make the experience much, much more pleasant. Which means: moderating more aggressively! Again, every “alternative” social network has learned this lesson the hard way. Like, over and over and over again.

Also, everyone crying about “free speech” conveniently ignores that the biggest threat to free speech in America is the fucking government, which seems completely bored of the First Amendment. They’re out here banning books, Elon! President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump have identical policy positions on Section 230: they both want to repeal it. Do you know why? Because the First Amendment prohibits them from making explicit speech regulations, so they keep threatening to repeal the law that allows social networks to even exist in order to exert indirect pressure on content policy. It’s not subtle!

State governments are even less subtle: both Texas and Florida have passed speech regulations that overtly tell social media companies how to moderate, in open hostility to the First Amendment. Figuring out how to comply with these laws is not an engineering problem (not least because compliance might be impossible). It is a legal problem because these laws are blatantly unconstitutional, and the only appropriate response to them is to tell the government to shut up and go away. (A big problem here is that the courts are pretty stupid about the internet!) A challenge to these laws, partially funded by Twitter, is headed to the Supreme Court, which is the polar opposite of a predictable system: it is a group of uncool weirdos with lifetime appointments that can radically reshape American life however it wants. You can’t deploy AI at this problem: you have to go out and defend the actual First Amendment against the bad laws in Texas and Florida, whose taxes you like and whose governors you seem pretty fond of. Are you ready for what that looks like? Are you ready to sit before Congress and politely decline to engage in their content capture sessions for hours on end? Are you ready to do any of this without the incredibly respected policy experts whose leader you first harassed and then fired? This is what you signed up for. It’s way more boring than rockets, cars, and rockets with cars on them.

And it gets worse the second you leave the United States! Germany is a huge market for Tesla. Are you going to flaunt Germany’s speech laws? I would bet not. The Indian government basically demands social media companies provide potential hostages in order to operate in that country; you can’t engineer your way out of that shit. Are you ready to experience the pressure Twitter faces in the Middle East to block and restrict accounts? Are you ready for the fact that the Iranian government will fucking murder people over their social media posts? (Are you ready for how Twitter is being used by Iranians protesting that government right now?) Are you excited for the Chinese government to find ways to threaten Tesla’s huge business in that country over content that appears on Twitter? Because it’s going to happen.

The essential truth of every social network is that the product is content moderation, and everyone hates the people who decide how content moderation works. Content moderation is what Twitter makes — it is the thing that defines the user experience. It’s what YouTube makes, it’s what Instagram makes, it’s what TikTok makes. They all try to incentivize good stuff, disincentivize bad stuff, and delete the really bad stuff. Do you know why YouTube videos are all eight to 10 minutes long? Because that’s how long a video has to be to qualify for a second ad slot in the middle. That’s content moderation, baby — YouTube wants a certain kind of video, and it created incentives to get it. That’s the business you’re in now. The longer you fight it or pretend that you can sell something else, the more Twitter will drag you into the deepest possible muck of defending indefensible speech. And if you turn on a dime and accept that growth requires aggressive content moderation and pushing back against government speech regulations around the country and world, well, we’ll see how your fans react to that.

Anyhow, welcome to hell. This was your idea.

 

[52-80 19147]

Elon and investors have some ideas for Twitter. Twitter as a product has been feature-stale and some things are worth trying. 

At best, his vision of a profitable multi-service platform will be realized. At worst, it will not be much different from the cesspool that some of you are convinced it already is. 

The notion that Twitter has been somehow on the precarious edge of righteousness and will instantly tip over into a nazi free-for-all is the most amusing overreaction.  (But its 2022, so what worth is take if its not flaming hot)

 

[52-80 19147]

Anyone remember the fun drama around Net Neutrality just a few years ago?

How it would tear apart the threads of democracy? And stifle access to education on the internet? And block dissident voices and suppress racial and social justice? 

Remember how all that handwringing totally came to fruition? me neither

Much of the internet reaction is basically *oh no, a guy i dont like bought a thing that i also dont like!*

[MonkeyDoughnut 10229]

 

[Brisketexan 105080]

Tackling the tough issues first day. 
 
 
Opponents spin up bots to post inflammatory content as soon as he takes over? Not shocking in the least. 

Wait…you really don’t know that Cat Turd is a pre-existing alt-right voice, which had a significant following and amplification?
Elon doesn’t need bots to make his new platform look like shit.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

Must be a great day to be a Twitter employee. Any stock rights (grant, options, whatever) were all escalated so you're looking at a large balance in your investment account this morning. And since the leadership was canned, it's fair to say any initiative or project has been paused.

If I was an employee there today, I would be doing next to nothing. Even if I didn't normally go into the office, I would today just to check out the scene. 

[South Austin 52456]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If I was an employee there today, I would be doing next to nothing. Even if I didn't normally go into the office, I would today just to check out the scene.