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Poolflood

By Poolflood
in Can You Help Me With This?

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Here are some after pics for the project.  We started last September and have been swimming since Easter.  Pavilion/outdoor kitchen have recently been completed.  Sectional in the pavilion is incomple

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Weather was a big slow down with the rain we had last year. Also removing an in-ground floor system I didn’t realize was installed was the other big delay...I don’t want my pool to look like it has 20

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Before: pool built in the late 70’s. Major structural issues and ancient equipment that cost a fortune to repair over the years and maintain. Also had dated landscaping and flagstone After: wante

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TexasEd

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1 hour ago, PantsTent said:

 


Yeah the selection in our included budget from the quote was pretty bad. Found a 2x1” mosaic for not too bad of an upgrade (what’s $1500 on top of 80k right).

 

You may be on to something.  Maybe the base tile is so bad on purpose to get people to upgrade.  Companies can bid the standard price and then get a higher profit margin on the customer selected upgrades.  Comes off like a car dealership tactic.

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Poolflood

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2 hours ago, PantsTent said:

 


Yeah the selection in our included budget from the quote was pretty bad. Found a 2x1” mosaic for not too bad of an upgrade (what’s $1500 on top of 80k right).

 

 

1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

You may be on to something.  Maybe the base tile is so bad on purpose to get people to upgrade.  Companies can bid the standard price and then get a higher profit margin on the customer selected upgrades.  Comes off like a car dealership tactic.

This is going to be builder by builder thing.  There should be 100+ "standards" that a builder may show 30+.  That upgrade (1500$ ) should be an entry level glass.

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MonkeyDoughnut

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23 hours ago, TexasEd said:

What are y'all doing for tile?  I find the selections lacking.  Half the catalog gives me an 80s vibe.

 

Yeah, as mentioned, basically have to "upgrade" for anything. We went to showroom of Keystone Tile in Houston and they have everything. If not in HTown, I'm sure similar exists somewhere nearby.  That said wife was fully in charge of picking things out that "went together" as I had no concept on what it would look like based on a 1'x1' sample.

It's also nice to be able to see the decking, coping, tile and anything else you're doing in one place viewed together.

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TexasEd

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1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Yeah, as mentioned, basically have to "upgrade" for anything. We went to showroom of Keystone Tile in Houston and they have everything. If not in HTown, I'm sure similar exists somewhere nearby.  That said wife was fully in charge of picking things out that "went together" as I had no concept on what it would look like based on a 1'x1' sample.

It's also nice to be able to see the decking, coping, tile and anything else you're doing in one place viewed together.

We went to one of those places and tried to stick to non-glass but left feeling like we were making a compromise so now we are looking at glass.

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Poolflood

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2 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Yeah, as mentioned, basically have to "upgrade" for anything. We went to showroom of Keystone Tile in Houston and they have everything. If not in HTown, I'm sure similar exists somewhere nearby.  That said wife was fully in charge of picking things out that "went together" as I had no concept on what it would look like based on a 1'x1' sample.

It's also nice to be able to see the decking, coping, tile and anything else you're doing in one place viewed together.

Keystone is a wonderland.  Know the owners well.  Let the wife pick the color combos and rest easy.  They don't specialize in waterline tile.  Selections are bit limited compared to others that specialize in tile.  They're first and foremost travertine.  They own quarries.  If you have time ask if you can go to scp/npt/mastertile or Noble for larger selection of 6*6 standard.  

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Poolflood

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1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

We went to one of those places and tried to stick to non-glass but left feeling like we were making a compromise so now we are looking at glass.

Ask builder if they have secondary distribution for tile or if you can go to distribution.  I have 50ish selections of standard in showroom. 

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TexasEd

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2 hours ago, Poolflood said:

Keystone is a wonderland.  Know the owners well.  Let the wife pick the color combos and rest easy.  They don't specialize in waterline tile.  Selections are bit limited compared to others that specialize in tile.  They're first and foremost travertine.  They own quarries.  If you have time ask if you can go to scp/npt/mastertile or Noble for larger selection of 6*6 standard.  

We went to NPT.  Place looked like a WalMart Black Friday aisle 45 minutes after opening.  Just got a copy of their print catalog yesterday and it was better than the website.

You have a showroom?  Is it in the Austin area?

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Poolflood

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1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

We went to NPT.  Place looked like a WalMart Black Friday aisle 45 minutes after opening.  Just got a copy of their print catalog yesterday and it was better than the website.

You have a showroom?  Is it in the Austin area?

Yes.  Not in Austin.  So talk to builder to see if an SCP or SPP has a showroom near you to see tile if you didn't find something at npt.  May be better than npt.  Npt,  scp and spp are all parts of poolcorp.  You should have wide selection for standard waterline tiles.  Oh and see if there's a mastertile open up there.  Poolcorp bought them recently.  So if your builder can buy from npt he can buy from all the others.

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Hate

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When my hose got like that, I took it out and laid it on the hot concrete.  I read the hose develops memory and laying it out in the heat help get rid of that memory. Helped for a while.

This is what I’ve done in the past as well and it works fairly well. The hose may also be too long for your pool.
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HouTex

HouTex 1888

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Check the wheels and make sure they are not slipping. The gears can get worn and if one of the wheels doesn’t turn in sequence with the others it can make the device turn slightly and it will eventually get tied up. That happened to me. It was an easy fix to replace the wheel.

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woohorn

woohorn 1131

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Ok pool people. Anyone know how to stop my Polaris hose from going full pretzel? It starts out fine and then slowly works into this.... 55a79ebb692c0b0870900eaf5424c20a.jpg
I got these "cleaner clips" (in black) from amazon that have lasted 6 years and keep hose untangled. Sounds goofy, but they work and don't stand out any worse than a plain hose.

https://www.amazon.com/Cleaner-Clip-White-Clips-Size/dp/B00ECC03VI#
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joe dirt

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it’s been two months since we filled ours with water. we’re still waiting for some kind of inserts that kick up the pressure in the spa jets. builder says they’ve been on back order with waterway since we started the build. in the meantime, our spa has minimal pressure. the kids don’t care, but it feels like we’re just sitting in a big ass bathtub. 

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Landomatic

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On 12/3/2020 at 3:09 PM, TexasEd said:

New rendering.  Grading, clearing starts next week.

image.thumb.png.9829a9597364c5e561c63efb0bf58d91.png

 

Who has in ground cleaning system?  What are your thoughts?  Current plan is for a polaris robot.  

I've had in-ground on my last three pools and I would never do it any other way.  For me, it's just so out of sight, out of mind and I like that.  Those robots are a beating and don't do as good of a job from my experience.  I don't like them swimming around me while I'm swimming, and occasionally squirting the windows.  The robots just seem like antiquated technology to me, compared to the in-ground system.  It's literally like a corded phone versus a wireless one IMO.

On 12/8/2020 at 9:19 PM, TexasEd said:

No-one has in floor cleaning system?

It sounds like a big price jump but that you have better circulation from bottom up.

Also another plus of the in-ground, it heats from the bottom up so heats much more efficiently.

On 12/8/2020 at 9:35 PM, Poolflood said:

If you have lots of trees dropping leaves, it makes sense.  Otherwise spend money elsewhere.

Huh, my last 2 pool designers (2 different guys with different companies) said just the opposite.  They both said if we have a lot of trees, the in-ground might not be able to handle it very well.

On 12/8/2020 at 10:01 PM, TexasEd said:

Yes, I have a lot of trees.  This is a $6K bump.  I like the idea of the cleaning silt off the bottom that vacuums don't get would be nice but not worth that much.

If it will handle your trees, it's easily worth $6K in my opinion.  That's only $100/month for the next 5 years and I'd pay that all day for the convenience and efficiency.

On 12/8/2020 at 10:05 PM, Poolflood said:

It's the leaves your paying to have cleaned.  6k isn't bad for an infloor.   All have a version of leaf catcher on the deck.  Make sure included.

Again, not what I was told by two different guys.  Mine have done a fantastic job of keeping the floor clean, which it was my understanding is their main purpose.  They work like little sprinkler heads and push all the dirt toward the drain by spraying water across the floor of the pool.

On 12/8/2020 at 10:16 PM, Yarbr said:

If you can't keep up with maintainance or don't want to those floor jets make sense to me. Salt water cell, floor jets, a robot and  you won't have to do much to it.

Got to sweep it a lot more in winter because no one is churning up the water, the jets would minimize that.

In-floor and a robot?  I didn't know that was an option.  I was under the impression it was an either/or type deal.  I guess that would be the ultimate in cleaning, but seems like overkill to me.  Especially because the best part, in my opinion, is not having to fuck with the robot.

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On 12/9/2020 at 11:56 AM, joe dirt said:

for those who have a service, what are y’all paying per month?

the company our builder set us up with to open the pool and do the pool school wants to charge $200/mo. that seems high af to me considering i only see this guy out there for maybe 15min at a time. was gonna roll with them for a while until i figured out the chemistry but fuck all that noise time for some on the job training haha. 

I just got a quote for my new pool this week from one of the bigger companies around and they wanted $140 for the cleaning and $40 for the chemicals, but they said that was actually below their minimum (I have a small pool).  So, sadly, $200/month is probably about right for what I'm seeing in the market now and for what I used to pay, which was $200/month.  Couple of related CSB's...

My last guy was $150/month, but he was a unique situation.  Young kid who was working for the large company I originally hired for $200/month.  He decided to quit and go out on his own and I guess he was poaching clients when he left because he offered to do mine for $150 if I'd hire him.  Not sure how many other people he took when he left, but that really wasn't my problem.  So, I took him up on it and it worked out fine.  Ended up being a pretty cool kid and I helped him out with some business stuff along the way.

I just signed up with a guy for my new pool who says he'll do it for $20/week.  Pretty sure he's only able to do that because he's doing it on the side of the company he's currently working for and using their chemicals.  He does other pools in the neighborhood and it seems like he's just gonna swing by mine when he's here and make a quick $20 on the side for about 15 mins of work.  I didn't ask and he didn't say, but that's just my reading between the lines.  Had some apprehensions, you know, due to the whole "too good to be true, if he'll steal from his employer, etc" but for $20 a month, I decided fuck it, I'll give it a try.

I'm guessing there's lots of shady shit like this in the pool service industry.  Probably some "get what you pay for" type deals that don't end well...i.e. these side deal type guys don't have any kind of business insurance so if they fuck something up, it's on you.  I might try to do it myself if I had to pay $200/month but for $20/week, I'm willing to let someone else fuck with it.  I could also mow my own lawn, but for $35/week, I'd rather have someone else fuck with that too.  We'll see how it goes.

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Landomatic

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On 12/30/2020 at 1:53 PM, TexasEd said:

What are y'all doing for tile?  I find the selections lacking.  Half the catalog gives me an 80s vibe.

We found the same, no doubt.  Perfect description.  Apparently that's what the masses want?  We didn't like anything they had in the showroom or the catalog, so we found ours online and our builder was able to order it through there.  There seems to be a TON of better options online.  Most will let you order a sample, then you can go from there.  Here's the link to what we did, and everyone who's seen it so far raves about it and talks about how unique it is...

https://www.agapetile.com/product_info.php?products_id=11597

On 12/31/2020 at 9:12 AM, PantsTent said:

Yeah the selection in our included budget from the quote was pretty bad. Found a 2x1” mosaic for not too bad of an upgrade (what’s $1500 on top of 80k right).

That's definitely what we found all three rounds.

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HiggyBaby

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I got these "cleaner clips" (in black) from amazon that have lasted 6 years and keep hose untangled. Sounds goofy, but they work and don't stand out any worse than a plain hose.

https://www.amazon.com/Cleaner-Clip-White-Clips-Size/dp/B00ECC03VI#


Thanks. May try this and laying out the hose in the heat. I replaced the swivels but it’s still doing it. Only started in last month or so.
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HiggyBaby

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Check the wheels and make sure they are not slipping. The gears can get worn and if one of the wheels doesn’t turn in sequence with the others it can make the device turn slightly and it will eventually get tied up. That happened to me. It was an easy fix to replace the wheel.


Will look at this as well.

Added bonus, I’ve gotten really good at cleaning my filters lately, as one of my dogs has taken up a new hobby of digging holes in the landscaping near the pool. And guess where the dirt goes....

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Poolflood

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7 hours ago, Landomatic said:

I've had in-ground on my last three pools and I would never do it any other way.  For me, it's just so out of sight, out of mind and I like that.  Those robots are a beating and don't do as good of a job from my experience.  I don't like them swimming around me while I'm swimming, and occasionally squirting the windows.  The robots just seem like antiquated technology to me, compared to the in-ground system.  It's literally like a corded phone versus a wireless one IMO.

Also another plus of the in-ground, it heats from the bottom up so heats much more efficiently.

Huh, my last 2 pool designers (2 different guys with different companies) said just the opposite.  They both said if we have a lot of trees, the in-ground might not be able to handle it very well.

If it will handle your trees, it's easily worth $6K in my opinion.  That's only $100/month for the next 5 years and I'd pay that all day for the convenience and efficiency.

Again, not what I was told by two different guys.  Mine have done a fantastic job of keeping the floor clean, which it was my understanding is their main purpose.  They work like little sprinkler heads and push all the dirt toward the drain by spraying water across the floor of the pool.

In-floor and a robot?  I didn't know that was an option.  I was under the impression it was an either/or type deal.  I guess that would be the ultimate in cleaning, but seems like overkill to me.  Especially because the best part, in my opinion, is not having to fuck with the robot.

In-floor systems are a fairly high margin product for pool builders.  There's a ton of cost but don't think that the gp% goes down.  They're putting 30%gp on those systems all day long.  Plus there are fairly high manufacturer's incentive for pool builders to sell them (oh and they top sales people individually).  Done right they should keep the bottom of your pool clean of sand, silt and leaves, but what's the  ROI for that 6-8k?  You're going on your 4th pool.  If you plan on moving relatively soon again, is it worth it?  And you're looking to have weekly maintenance anyway.....

I'm not following what you're saying about "robots".  There are 3 common types of cleaners:  Pressure (polaris 280), Suction (old school Kreepy Krauly) and robotic.  The pressure cleaners are the one's that "squirt the windows", not the robotic - or I've never seen a robot that does that.

You should never swim while the cleaner is running.  pull it out.   (that's what she said)

In-floor systems originated out of Arizona due to the high volume of dust/sand.  A&A, Caretaker and bluesquare all are from Arizona originally.  But if they are going to sell their product nationwide they need another pitch.  Hence the leaves and debris.  So they added leaf canisters, etc.  Some builders are comfortable selling for sand/silt and will push them (again you're adding 6-8k to a project - don't forget your designer is ultimately a commission based salesman).  Some don't want to deal with the grief that they CAN get clogged with leaves, sticks etc and have a pissed off homeowner so they won't sell them if there's a ton of leaves being introduced and they pitch them as the Ultimate Pool Cleaner (as long as you don't have leaves)!!!  

Don't do an in-floor with a pool cleaner.  It's redundant.  

IMO I would only recommend for high volume leaf environments with the addition of a leaf cannister and I've also added cyclonic filtration as well.

ALL THAT BEING SAID!!!!!   You do You and if you take my recommendation and hate it afterward, don't bitch at me.  You like, trust, feel good about in-floor systems.  Put it in.  If you take my advice and are unhappy with it sorry!  lol, I ain't making anything off you, just adding my 2 cents!  

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TexasEd

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@Poolflood

We opted out of the in-floor system and we are getting a robot. We are getting two skimmers.  The deep end close to the big tree is getting a cyclonic skimmer and the shallow end is getting a standard one.

We have a ton of leaves.  We have a Heritage oak that puts down about 20 of the Home Depot leaf bags per year and there are a lot of other trees.  We have pushed out to the edge of the tree's canopy to try and minimize the leaves in the pool and avoid damaging too many roots.  There will also be a retaining wall between the tree and the pool where we can pick them up before they blow in.

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MonkeyDoughnut

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32 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

@Poolflood

We opted out of the in-floor system and we are getting a robot. We are getting two skimmers.  The deep end close to the big tree is getting a cyclonic skimmer and the shallow end is getting a standard one.

We have a ton of leaves.  We have a Heritage oak that puts down about 20 of the Home Depot leaf bags per year and there are a lot of other trees.  We have pushed out to the edge of the tree's canopy to try and minimize the leaves in the pool and avoid damaging too many roots.  There will also be a retaining wall between the tree and the pool where we can pick them up before they blow in.

Good plan, the robot will be fine, just will need to empty pretty often depending on capacity of robot. With all the trees, would definitely plan on getting a cover of some type (<$100) on Amazon when the leaves start falling in mass.

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Poolflood

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2 hours ago, TexasEd said:

@Poolflood

We opted out of the in-floor system and we are getting a robot. We are getting two skimmers.  The deep end close to the big tree is getting a cyclonic skimmer and the shallow end is getting a standard one.

We have a ton of leaves.  We have a Heritage oak that puts down about 20 of the Home Depot leaf bags per year and there are a lot of other trees.  We have pushed out to the edge of the tree's canopy to try and minimize the leaves in the pool and avoid damaging too many roots.  There will also be a retaining wall between the tree and the pool where we can pick them up before they blow in.

The skimmer close to trees I'm assuming is a venturi skimmer.  Good call.

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Landomatic

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13 hours ago, Poolflood said:

In-floor systems are a fairly high margin product for pool builders.  There's a ton of cost but don't think that the gp% goes down.  They're putting 30%gp on those systems all day long.  Plus there are fairly high manufacturer's incentive for pool builders to sell them (oh and they top sales people individually).  Done right they should keep the bottom of your pool clean of sand, silt and leaves, but what's the  ROI for that 6-8k?  You're going on your 4th pool.  If you plan on moving relatively soon again, is it worth it?  And you're looking to have weekly maintenance anyway.....

I'm not following what you're saying about "robots".  There are 3 common types of cleaners:  Pressure (polaris 280), Suction (old school Kreepy Krauly) and robotic.  The pressure cleaners are the one's that "squirt the windows", not the robotic - or I've never seen a robot that does that.

You should never swim while the cleaner is running.  pull it out.   (that's what she said)

In-floor systems originated out of Arizona due to the high volume of dust/sand.  A&A, Caretaker and bluesquare all are from Arizona originally.  But if they are going to sell their product nationwide they need another pitch.  Hence the leaves and debris.  So they added leaf canisters, etc.  Some builders are comfortable selling for sand/silt and will push them (again you're adding 6-8k to a project - don't forget your designer is ultimately a commission based salesman).  Some don't want to deal with the grief that they CAN get clogged with leaves, sticks etc and have a pissed off homeowner so they won't sell them if there's a ton of leaves being introduced and they pitch them as the Ultimate Pool Cleaner (as long as you don't have leaves)!!!  

Don't do an in-floor with a pool cleaner.  It's redundant.  

IMO I would only recommend for high volume leaf environments with the addition of a leaf cannister and I've also added cyclonic filtration as well.

ALL THAT BEING SAID!!!!!   You do You and if you take my recommendation and hate it afterward, don't bitch at me.  You like, trust, feel good about in-floor systems.  Put it in.  If you take my advice and are unhappy with it sorry!  lol, I ain't making anything off you, just adding my 2 cents!  

Well, you obviously know a lot more about it than I do...but in this case, it just comes down to personal preference.  Yes, I think the ROI for me has been more than worth it and I'll never do a pool any other way.

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Spur08

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This past year we bought a house with a pool  (approx 25'x15').  The previous owners seem like they ran out of money when it came to decking as there is only pebble decking around 3 sides of the pool (1 long and both short sides - think sidewalk width).  I'm thinking about ripping out the pebble decking and installing something more aesthetic.  Anyone have any idea what something like that might run?  I'm planning a larger covered patio addition as well so this is one element I was looking at during the refurb.  Also toying with the idea of adding a spa but not sure how do-able that is

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TexasEd

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23 minutes ago, Spur08 said:

This past year we bought a house with a pool  (approx 25'x15').  The previous owners seem like they ran out of money when it came to decking as there is only pebble decking around 3 sides of the pool (1 long and both short sides - think sidewalk width).  I'm thinking about ripping out the pebble decking and installing something more aesthetic.  Anyone have any idea what something like that might run?  I'm planning a larger covered patio addition as well so this is one element I was looking at during the refurb.  Also toying with the idea of adding a spa but not sure how do-able that is

I think the patio can be one of the most expensive parts. Your cost can vary based on how nice you make it from bare concrete, aggregate like you have, cool deck, stamped concrete, flagstone, travertine etc. 

we have a large flagstone patio but we’re going with cool deck for the pool addition 

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Spur08

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I think the patio can be one of the most expensive parts. Your cost can vary based on how nice you make it from bare concrete, aggregate like you have, cool deck, stamped concrete, flagstone, travertine etc. 
we have a large flagstone patio but we’re going with cool deck for the pool addition 
Would you be able to ballpark the square foot expense?
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