Yes: Pools are worth it....

[TexEx15 17,509]

4 hours ago, Poolflood said:

General response to TFP and salt water systems.  

Aside from my industry experience I've had a pool in my backyard for a decade.  I have a VS pump, an over-sized cartridge filter, robotic cleaner and a POS rainbow chlorinator.  We spend MAYBE 30 minutes a WEEK fucking around with the pool.  It's usually on Sunday after spending the day in the pool (so we're drunk when we do it).  Keep tabs in the chlorinator, shock the pool once a week and check the pH.  You can mind-fuck water chemistry and if you want to putz with the pool, cool.  Hire a service company and it's going to cost ~200/month and they are going to spend 30 minutes cleaning the pool, adjusting pH, adding tabs and shocking the pool.  

If your pool gets a bunch of leaves etc, in the pool, that changes the calculus, but typically not by much.  

How do you manage your CYA using tabs that much?

[milkman 428]

The day has finally come to shoot plaster!

[Brew 3,049]

13 hours ago, TexEx15 said:

How do you manage your CYA using tabs that much?

I’m 6+ years into two separate pools and both have had automatic chlorinators and I haven’t had significant issues with CYA. I spend 20-30 minutes a week on the pool at most.

[Quagmire 2,147]

I like the rock paver look but my ocd would drive me crazy keeping those rocks in place

[Guest]

5 hours ago, milkman said:

The day has finally come to shoot plaster!

[milkman 428]

I like the rock paver look but my ocd would drive me crazy keeping those rocks in place

Only been in the house for a few days and it's the first thing I notice when I walk outside. Hopefully my OCD will settle down on of these days.

[Dahobbs 17,525]

11 minutes ago, milkman said:

Only been in the house for a few days and it's the first thing I notice when I walk outside. Hopefully my OCD will settle down on of these days.

Try glue. Lots of glue. Maybe duct tape?

[TexEx15 17,509]

1 hour ago, Brew said:

I’m 6+ years into two separate pools and both have had automatic chlorinators and I haven’t had significant issues with CYA. I spend 20-30 minutes a week on the pool at most.

What is your CYA at?

[HouTex 1,866]

Re: CYA levels, I was a disciple of TFP when I had my pool.  I had a SWG and loved it.  Growing up my family had a pool with a sand filter and we always used chlorine pucks and we never had issues.  Frequent back washing and enough rain kept the CYA in check.  With cartridge filter pools, because you don’t backwash, unless there’s enough rain to dilute the CYA, I would think those pool owners eventually will have a problem.

[Amos Moses 795]

Enough rain … very funny smart guy.

[Poolflood 845]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:24 PM, TexEx15 said:

How do you manage your CYA using tabs that much?

I never add CYA on fresh fills, don't use tabs from leslies and rarely add tabs through fall to winter.   But brass tacks - CYA goes to shit in 2 years it takes 4, maybe 5 hours of drain and fill to rectify?  And there are a fuckton of clean, clear pools running over 150.

[Surly Bevo 24,908]

I’ve had a saltwater pool with flagstone coping since 2014. It’s been sealed once on build and once in the intervening 8 years. It’s completely fine. Has it flaked here and there some. Yea sure….some. Has it done it enough that you would walk up and really notice…absolutely not.

The saltwater fears are overblown. It’s 3200 ppm. Not seawater 35k ppm. Shit is easy. Add salt every now and the. Add acid here and there. Some conditioner (CYA) in late April/early May and MAYBE again in Sept/Oct. Other than emptying the skimmer baskets and the cleaner and brushing shit here and there or netting out leaves and crap after winds/storms it’s easy as fuck.

[LCHorn 2,614]

For those of you that pay for a pool services company, what's your weekly spend for labor and additionally for chemicals?

[Elvis 3,371]

I decided to not refinish my pool this summer so that I can let my 12yo son learn chemistry and maintenance.  He’s doing great.  I’m paying him $50/week plus I buy the chems.  Hopefully this turns into a good business for him next year with all of the other pools in my neighborhood. 

[Brew 3,049]

On 6/29/2022 at 1:22 PM, TexEx15 said:

What is your CYA at?

Checked it today, it was in the 60-80 range.

[TexasEd 8,066]

17 hours ago, Brew said:

Checked it today, it was in the 60-80 range.

I’m quoting you but realize you may not need the info but someone dropped in a while back that had a hard time shocking their pool.  I think that is the ideal range for high UV areas like central Texas.

With that level your maintenance Chlorine level should be about 6ppm and the Shock level should be about 28-30 PPM. This is a high level and most test kits will not go that high.  You need a FAS-DPD test kit which uses a powder and drops to test chlorine levels.

If you are not getting the level high enough you are not actually in shock range and you can keep having algae problems.

Hope this helps someone.

Edited July 5, 2022 by TexasEd
Context

[Goofyboy 3,269]

Our turn. Looking for a pool builder on the west side of Houston (south of Katy).

[RMac5 1,551]

Best robot for in ground pool? The two most popular seem to be Dolphin and Polaris. I see some have Wi-Fi, is that really a benefit? Seems to be big range in price even within the same mgr. If this has already discussed, sorry for not paying attention.

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

Ok, I’m in a pickle..

Have a 10k gallon sand filtered pool.

Had some equipment go down so couldn’t filter for a couple of weeks and algae bloomed like crazy. I’ve fixed the filter and I’ve been shocking the pool and I think I’ve killed the algae.

Made a mistake of floccing the pool and letting it run through the filter. So now when I turn the filter in the water gets more cloudy.

Questions

(1) can I salvage the water/filter or should I just drain the water, wash the plaster, change the sand, and refill the pool? If I do this it’s the second time this year. If the flocc will break down and I can use clarifier and chlorine to get the pool back in order that’s preferable I think.

(2) are Leslie’s pool supplies water testing results accurate? I get weird readings every time I go in and I don’t know if it’s my water or their tests.

(3) Is Trouble free pool the right resource? They hate poolrx, but does anyone recommend it?

Here is a picture of the pool after running the filter and getting the water cloudy again. The walls are still pretty green from algae. I figure I can get it with a brush maybe?

[freyguy 4,262]

Keep shocking (like 2 gal/day of chlorine), keep brushing & sweeping, keep the pumps running, and backwash your filter out every other day.  Your pool should clear up after a couple of days.

Never spend another dime at Leslie's, nor take your water over there to get tested.  They are a lazy bunch and just want to sell you things that you do not need.  Buy all your chlorine and acid from Home Depot or Walmart.  Also get a test kit from TFTestkits.  You'll find out quickly that you can manage your own pool better than any service.

[freyguy 4,262]

and read this thread on why floccing can really floc things up if your chemistry ain't right.

[TexasEd 8,066]

10 hours ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

Ok, I’m in a pickle..

Have a 10k gallon sand filtered pool.

Had some equipment go down so couldn’t filter for a couple of weeks and algae bloomed like crazy. I’ve fixed the filter and I’ve been shocking the pool and I think I’ve killed the algae.

Made a mistake of floccing the pool and letting it run through the filter. So now when I turn the filter in the water gets more cloudy.

Questions

(1) can I salvage the water/filter or should I just drain the water, wash the plaster, change the sand, and refill the pool? If I do this it’s the second time this year. If the flocc will break down and I can use clarifier and chlorine to get the pool back in order that’s preferable I think.

(2) are Leslie’s pool supplies water testing results accurate? I get weird readings every time I go in and I don’t know if it’s my water or their tests.

(3) Is Trouble free pool the right resource? They hate poolrx, but does anyone recommend it?

Here is a picture of the pool after running the filter and getting the water cloudy again. The walls are still pretty green from algae. I figure I can get it with a brush maybe?

 

7 hours ago, freyguy said:

Keep shocking (like 2 gal/day of chlorine), keep brushing & sweeping, keep the pumps running, and backwash your filter out every other day.  Your pool should clear up after a couple of days.

Never spend another dime at Leslie's, nor take your water over there to get tested.  They are a lazy bunch and just want to sell you things that you do not need.  Buy all your chlorine and acid from Home Depot or Walmart.  Also get a test kit from TFTestkits.  You'll find out quickly that you can manage your own pool better than any service.

I don't like using clarifiers or flocculants but Freyguy has the right advice.

1. TFP is a great resource.  You should be able to test your pool without Leslie's and get more consistent results. You probably need a FAS-DPD chlorine test kit, you also need to know CYA to clear this up.

2. Get reliable CYA and Chlorine level readings.  Depending on your CYA level you need to shock your pool to the right Chlorine level and hold it there until all of this is gone. Then do an overnight chlorine loss test to make sure you don't have algae hiding in a hidden spot like a light recess or unused pressure side line.  Read this post for an example on the shock level needed.  The higher your CYA the higher the necessary chlorine level.  If your CYA is over 80 you should probably do a partial drain and replace to get it down to a manageable level for shocking.

19 hours ago, TexasEd said:

I’m quoting you but realize you may not need the info but someone dropped in a while back that had a hard time shocking their pool.  I think that is the ideal range for high UV areas like central Texas.

With that level your maintenance Chlorine level should be about 6ppm and the Shock level should be about 28-30 PPM. This is a high level and most test kits will not go that high.  You need a FAS-DPD test kit which uses a powder and drops to test chlorine levels.

If you are not getting the level high enough you are not actually in shock range and you can keep having algae problems.

Hope this helps someone.

3. You probably don't need flocculants if you have patience.  Did a sales guy tell you you needed it?  The push product not healthy pools.  Just doing the Shock/hold/overnight loss test will kill it all off and the filter will eventually get it.

4. What is your pool water turnover rate? How long are you running the filter?  Leave it on 24/7 and backwash the sand regularly until this clears.  How old/dirty is the sand?  The fact that this gets worse when you turn the filter on means it could be a one or more things.

• Your filter media is inadequate
• turning on the pump stirs stuff off the bottom that had not been filtered
• You are killing new algae when the pump comes on and you need to do the shock/hold/ overnight loss test until it is gone.

Check all of these things, make sure the filter is working properly first so you may need to break it down and inspect.

 

[freyguy 4,262]

8 hours ago, freyguy said:

and read this thread on why floccing can really floc things up if your chemistry ain't right.

It would help if I had actually put in that link...

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/why-does-liquid-floc-work-sometimes-and-others-it-doesnt.9999/

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

I understand that I did not need the flocc. I misunderstood what would happen, I thought it would drop and I could sweep it to the main drain and then run it out the waste line, thus vacuuming to waste. When I tried to sweep it it just kicked back up into the water and I don’t have a vacuum to deal with it.

Then I ran the filter and now I am pretty sure I have flocc all up in my filter, so I’m trying to figure out the best course of action from here.

I can try to open the top of the filter and fill it with water and see how much I can clean out of the filter that way. I can keep putting gallons of chlorinating liquid in and running the filter. This is probably my plan…

I don’t have a good test kit so I’ve been relying on Leslie’s and their test results seem suspect.

[BillyBadAss 189]

On 4/30/2022 at 12:06 PM, BillyBadAss said:

re: pool cleaners/robots -  The TFP people all recommend going through this place to buy a robot: https://marinapoolspaandpatio.com/product-category/robotic-pool-cleaners-maytronics-residential/

There are videos and comparison sheets on their website which recommend the ones to buy. They are several models which are basically the same (made by Maytronics, sold as Dolphin and other brands). You have to call them and it's hard to get through, but they can't advertise their below MSRP prices so have to purchase by phone. The model I got (Dolphin explorer e30) was $800 which is $200 below MSRP and $100 cheaper than any advertise price on the internet - arrived in 4-5 days. 

 

 

Someone asked about robots, this is what I had figured out a bit ago..

@RMac5

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by BillyBadAss

[RMac5 1,551]

Thanks BBA!

[BillyBadAss 189]

1 minute ago, RMac5 said:

Thanks BBA!

Btw, I don't think you need the app or wifi or anything, but I do regret not getting the caddy. Not the end of the world, but would be more convenient, for me at least.

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

So do people think my sand is fucked from the flocculant and I need to replace, or can I backwash the flocc out of it?

[TexasEd 8,066]

12 minutes ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

So do people think my sand is fucked from the flocculant and I need to replace, or can I backwash the flocc out of it?

I think it can be one of a few different things I posted in my longcat above. You need to investigate them until you find the problem(s)

• Your filter media is inadequate or filter is borked (has a hole or bad seal)
• turning on the pump stirs stuff off the bottom that had not been filtered
• You are killing new algae when the pump comes on and that clouds the water.  You need to do the shock/hold/ overnight loss test until it is gone.

First I would sweep the bottom with the filter off and see if that stirs up sediment.

Second, Get a good test kit and let us know what your Chlorine and CYA levels are first.  You mentioned you are getting inconsistent results from Leslie's but you don't share them.  

Third, when was the last time you did a cleaning and inspection of the filter?

Edited July 8, 2022 by TexasEd

[zman13 178]

Any recommendations for a pool inspection person in Austin? Need someone who is well versed in current City of Austin/State life safety/fencing requirements.

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

I think it can be one of a few different things I posted in my longcat above. You need to investigate them until you find the problem(s)

• Your filter media is inadequate or filter is borked (has a hole or bad seal)
• turning on the pump stirs stuff off the bottom that had not been filtered
• You are killing new algae when the pump comes on and that clouds the water.  You need to do the shock/hold/ overnight loss test until it is gone.

First I would sweep the bottom with the filter off and see if that stirs up sediment.
Second, Get a good test kit and let us know what your Chlorine and CYA levels are first.  You mentioned you are getting inconsistent results from Leslie's but you don't share them.  
Third, when was the last time you did a cleaning and inspection of the filter?

Thanks.

I cleaned and replaced the sand 2 months ago. There is definitely a lot of sediment at the bottom of the pool from the floccing, and the water is clear when it’s settled and cloudy when it’s not. Sometimes the return jets are introducing cloudy water sometimes they are not. I have been putting in a gallon of chlorinating liquid a day to try and make sure I kill off any algae.

I’ll run a sample to the store this afternoon and provide the current test levels.

I’m having a hard time finding anything out that’s directly related to flocc in the sand filter. I think I’m going to drain the pool and pressure was it bc it looks like there’s a bunch of algae or stains on the plaster. But the real dilemma is if I should do the extra work to replace the sand. I certainly don’t want to recloud the new water bc of flocced up sand…

[TexasEd 8,066]

2 hours ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

Thanks.

I cleaned and replaced the sand 2 months ago. There is definitely a lot of sediment at the bottom of the pool from the floccing, and the water is clear when it’s settled and cloudy when it’s not. Sometimes the return jets are introducing cloudy water sometimes they are not. I have been putting in a gallon of chlorinating liquid a day to try and make sure I kill off any algae.

I’ll run a sample to the store this afternoon and provide the current test levels.

I’m having a hard time finding anything out that’s directly related to flocc in the sand filter. I think I’m going to drain the pool and pressure was it bc it looks like there’s a bunch of algae or stains on the plaster. But the real dilemma is if I should do the extra work to replace the sand. I certainly don’t want to recloud the new water bc of flocced up sand…

“Adding chlorinating liquid” does this mean bleach or something else?  If you don’t have a way to test how do you know how much to add?

get a FAS-DPD chlorine test kit before anything else. The store can tell you CYA levels and it should stay steady. You’re spinning your wheels until you can test chlorine at home. 

[Not that Bob 735]

I'm getting conflicting reports. We've just had a major pool rebuild, plaster and everything. Part of the reason is that the skimmer was leaking to the support structure below...the pool is suspended. Replacing the support structure was a major part of the expense so I am anxious to not have chlorinated water on the steel structure again. The builder took out the skimmer saying adequate floor jets and pump pressure would take care of it and no skimmer would be required. What says surl.

PS no trees close so no leaves.

PPS it is a negative edge pool and the builder says the basin acts as a skimmer since all the water eventually goes over the negative edge into the basin which has filters.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Not that Bob
ps

[Dutchrudder 11,133]

Need some second opinions. We recently finished our pool build, and they are about to finish the bathroom and kitchen area, thus completing the project.  We have 3 issues I raised and they sort of brushed them off:

1. Our pool pump pressure is kind of high. It runs at 3000 rpm, which is medium-high speed, and if the water goes through the UV/Ozonator and heater, it's 21 PSI. If I bypass those, it's 10 PSI. The builder says I should partially bypass those to get it around 15 PSI which is normal operation. My pool cleaner guy says that's wrong, and there could be an issue with the piping, something blocking it, or just poor design leading to excessive pressure.  

2. We have 2 jets in the pool that constantly shoot bubbles. It's only those 2 jets, they do spray water too, but bubbles are constant. Builder says that's normal, especially with an Ozonator, but I don't believe them. Any thoughts on the cause of issue?

3. Pool has been up and running for about 2 months now, and we have a black stain or something on the water line.  Pic included. Our pool guy says it's not algae or organic. It won't come off with brushing or with acid. No idea what it is or how to remove it. Any ideas?

[freyguy 4,262]

1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

Need some second opinions. We recently finished our pool build, and they are about to finish the bathroom and kitchen area, thus completing the project.  We have 3 issues I raised and they sort of brushed them off:

1. Our pool pump pressure is kind of high. It runs at 3000 rpm, which is medium-high speed, and if the water goes through the UV/Ozonator and heater, it's 21 PSI. If I bypass those, it's 10 PSI. The builder says I should partially bypass those to get it around 15 PSI which is normal operation. My pool cleaner guy says that's wrong, and there could be an issue with the piping, something blocking it, or just poor design leading to excessive pressure.  

2. We have 2 jets in the pool that constantly shoot bubbles. It's only those 2 jets, they do spray water too, but bubbles are constant. Builder says that's normal, especially with an Ozonator, but I don't believe them. Any thoughts on the cause of issue?

3. Pool has been up and running for about 2 months now, and we have a black stain or something on the water line.  Pic included. Our pool guy says it's not algae or organic. It won't come off with brushing or with acid. No idea what it is or how to remove it. Any ideas?

1.  You won't like the answer, but all you're really stating is 21psi is your system's steady-state pressure.  Piping diameter, length, elbows, pumps, fittings, valves, filter state, etc all go into determining your pressure.  Each of your components are also pressure rated, and should be plenty safe for 21 psi.  So, my bet is shitty design.

2.  Maybe.  You could disconnect the power to the ozonator / turn it off and run your system for a few hours to see if the bubbles go away.

3.  Go buy tile cleaner & CLR.  One of them should get it off.  Or, go buy a couple of pumice stone cleaners.  It'll be safe to use on your tiles.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,227]

8 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Need some second opinions. We recently finished our pool build, and they are about to finish the bathroom and kitchen area, thus completing the project.  We have 3 issues I raised and they sort of brushed them off:

1. Our pool pump pressure is kind of high. It runs at 3000 rpm, which is medium-high speed, and if the water goes through the UV/Ozonator and heater, it's 21 PSI. If I bypass those, it's 10 PSI. The builder says I should partially bypass those to get it around 15 PSI which is normal operation. My pool cleaner guy says that's wrong, and there could be an issue with the piping, something blocking it, or just poor design leading to excessive pressure.  

2. We have 2 jets in the pool that constantly shoot bubbles. It's only those 2 jets, they do spray water too, but bubbles are constant. Builder says that's normal, especially with an Ozonator, but I don't believe them. Any thoughts on the cause of issue?

3. Pool has been up and running for about 2 months now, and we have a black stain or something on the water line.  Pic included. Our pool guy says it's not algae or organic. It won't come off with brushing or with acid. No idea what it is or how to remove it. Any ideas?

for #1, I don't think 21 PSI is "too" high, maybe higher than ideal, but still within range. (<25). I would re-check the filter to make sure clean and not clogged up, can happen quickly on new build, but I don't think partial bypass a is normal design. 

for #2 it is likely the Ozonator, you can pipe in a MDV (Mixing De-Gas Vessel) to remove the bubbles from getting to the pool if it bothers you. (~$1k from what I see)

[BottleRocket 644]

The calcium levels are sky high in my pool and I have to empty it and start over.  Can I pump the water into my house's waste water cleanout by the curb?   If not, where should I send the water?   I'm in Austin.

[freyguy 4,262]

down the street

[BillyBadAss 189]

56 minutes ago, BottleRocket said:

The calcium levels are sky high in my pool and I have to empty it and start over.  Can I pump the water into my house's waste water cleanout by the curb?   If not, where should I send the water?   I'm in Austin.

Curious, how did you calcium get high? Shocking with Calcium hypochlorite?

[BottleRocket 644]

3 minutes ago, BillyBadAss said:

Curious, how did you calcium get high? Shocking with Calcium hypochlorite?

Yes.  And it's creating calcium "barnacles" on the pool's plaster.

[BottleRocket 644]

11 minutes ago, freyguy said:

down the street

My concern with doing this is my neighborhood is above Barton Creek greenbelt and the neighborhood Karens and/or COA getting in my business.    

[freyguy 4,262]

Do it at night. 

it ain't gonna hurt the environment though

[Quagmire 2,147]

Yes those ozone thing must certainly make annoying loud bubbles . Glad I didn’t get one

[Okie State 3,809]

So how loud is 'normal' for a Hayward variable speed pump? Mine seems pretty loud. Pool guys said it normally means it's about to go out, but they're also idiots so thought I'd ask.

Also seems like it would be pretty easy to replace myself as long as I get another Hayward VS model. Any downside to that?

[fattyflattie 4,639]

4 hours ago, Okie State said:

So how loud is 'normal' for a Hayward variable speed pump? Mine seems pretty loud. Pool guys said it normally means it's about to go out, but they're also idiots so thought I'd ask.

Also seems like it would be pretty easy to replace myself as long as I get another Hayward VS model. Any downside to that?

Mine is louder than I’d have thought, since brand new.  It’s doesn’t make any concerning noises, but it’s a lot louder than I had expected.  

[Okie State 3,809]

Mine is louder than I’d have thought, since brand new.  It’s doesn’t make any concerning noises, but it’s a lot louder than I had expected.  

The only reference points I have are my Dad's and in-laws which are both significantly quieter, but I think they're both Pentair. Supposedly mine is one of the older variable speed models, but I haven't taken the time to research it yet. I do know they wanted to charge me about double what I could buy one on my own though just for parts so fuck them.

[Poolflood 845]

5 hours ago, Okie State said:

So how loud is 'normal' for a Hayward variable speed pump? Mine seems pretty loud. Pool guys said it normally means it's about to go out, but they're also idiots so thought I'd ask.

Also seems like it would be pretty easy to replace myself as long as I get another Hayward VS model. Any downside to that?

Have you had it since new?  Has the sound changed dramatically? 

28 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Mine is louder than I’d have thought, since brand new.  It’s doesn’t make any concerning noises, but it’s a lot louder than I had expected.  

If its a nuisance drop the high from 100% to 85 or 90%

[Okie State 3,809]

We bought the house in December so it was already here. I messed with the settings and dialed back the rpms so it's not as bad, but I need to actually do the math to figure out what speed I should be running it at to turn the pool over. Never enough time to do anything though.

[Mother mopar 3,318]

47 minutes ago, Okie State said:

We bought the house in December so it was already here. I messed with the settings and dialed back the rpms so it's not as bad, but I need to actually do the math to figure out what speed I should be running it at to turn the pool over. Never enough time to do anything though.

Most machines run in an optimal state at 1750 RPMs as that is the industrial (not just pools) standard. Anything more and heat and bearing life get reduced. 

[Poolflood 845]

10 hours ago, Okie State said:

We bought the house in December so it was already here. I messed with the settings and dialed back the rpms so it's not as bad, but I need to actually do the math to figure out what speed I should be running it at to turn the pool over. Never enough time to do anything though.

This time of year 6 hours high.  Usualy 10 - 4pm,  4-10pm on medium.  10 pm - 10 am at about 25%.  When we fit fall through winter back high speed down to 75%.