The Sopranos

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:52 AM, Lobo said:

I found Meadow to be a great character in terms of what other characters felt about her.  She had Tony's brains with almost none of his baggage.  Could have been a worthy heir to his throne had she been born a boy (I'm going out on a limb and assume that La Cosa Nostra, despite their enlightened progressiveness on so many other social issues of the day, adheres to cisgender roles.  He admires her independence and dedication, but she's still his little girl and he wants to direct her life as he does everyone else's.  Their most complex dynamic was when she started dating Jackie Junior.  Tony was truly torn on that.  It was he always preached about keeping it within the larger "family" with people you know and trust, from good stock.  Then again, he never really wanted that life for his children because Meadow was a girl who would become a lawyer or doctor and A.J. could fuck up a drumstick.  In the end, she ends up with the son of a made guy but neither is directly involved in the lifestyle.  I think that gives Tony peace that she has the best of both worlds.  He knows the boy and knows they're heading for a great life together on the straight and narrow.  

She is making her own way in the world of education and work, making her mother wonder "what if" about her own life.  Meadow almost always has a boyfriend but she is always the dominant figure in the relationship, again at her mother's envy.  Meadow has an active social and philanthropic life in upper-tier circles, whereas her mother gets her friends from whomever happens to be marrying/dating her husband's work associates.

Meadow really holds up an interesting mirror to her parents in very different ways.  My favorite Meadow storyline though is when she tells Mom and Dad about her incident in Little Italy.  She's all growns up, but Tony looks across the breakfast table and sees that moment of fear and vulnerability in the eyes of the strongest woman he's ever known.  And he doesn't act out as a Boss saving face.  He acts out as a Dad, curb stomps the first guy and almost murders the other little guy.  

Plus she was smoking hot.  I ran into her getting takeout in Bee Cave the other day, she is aging extraordinarily well.  Texas sun been better to her than Jersey.

Agreed. She would have been a fantastic Dona(?). Too lazy to look up the name, but the closest we got was the capo in Johnny's crew whose murder started the war. I really thought the show did a great job of avoiding (I think there is a technical term) stock characters for virtually everyone. Even the minor ones have a depth and complexity frequently lost on TV. As a father with similarly aged kids, I could resonate with Tony and Carmela's roller-coaster with Meadow and A.J.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 7/28/2021 at 4:01 PM, Cousin Strawberry said:

Every episode except "A Hits a Hit" and "In Camelot."  Trash.

A Hit's a Hit is fantastic if you've been in or around the music business....Very realistic with the mob ties. Hesh is based on a dude named Mo Levy. 

And Defiler, lol: “Stay out of our way, don’t be so gay / We’re coming to defile, defile you.”

[Wade 464]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

A Hit's a Hit is fantastic if you've been in or around the music business....Very realistic with the mob ties. Hesh is based on a dude named Mo Levy. 

And Defiler, lol: “Stay out of our way, don’t be so gay / We’re coming to defile, defile you.”

I see your Defiler and raise you Meow

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I googled this and I was surprised to see nobody else has this theory...

It's one of the Ralphie seasons, when Tony had that logjam over who would get to be captain of that crew. Would it be the psychotic but talented big earner Ralphie, or Gigi, the loyal and steady dude who was also kinda dumb?

People hate that Chase apparently just took the easy way out and went deus ex machina and killed off Gigi randomly -- he had a heart attack while "straining at stool" as medical reports put it. 

On my second viewing (and later ones) I've come to believe Tony found some way to slow-poison Gigi. He had to. He couldn't transfer him to another crew because he'd look weak and indecisive. Uncle Joon told him so, and I think he would have approved this hit. Tony couldn't outright whack Gigi because Gigi did not give him cause, and nobody would believe the "two Black guys carjacked him" thing because they would see right through that.  And if Ralphie suspected Tony had a hand in taking Gigi out of the picture, he was crazy enough to get high or drunk and say something about it publicly, like "I'd like to thank Tony, who made all this possible for me." 

Tony had to settle that power struggle one way or another, and as mobsters always do, he chose money over decency and safety, but he had to make it look like he had nothing to do with it.

Chase modeled a lot of the series off ancient Rome -- the Livia & Joon vs Tony storyline is straight out of I, Claudius -- and the Romans had different methods of assassination for different occasions and I think this was another one. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by MaybeACoordinator

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

I had a drink next to Johnny Sack's brother last night.

[Bogeywon 2519]

8 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I googled this and I was surprised to see nobody else has this theory...

It's one of the Ralphie seasons, when Tony had that logjam over who would get to be captain of that crew. Would it be the psychotic but talented big earner Ralphie, or Gigi, the loyal and steady dude who was also kinda dumb?

People hate that Chase apparently just took the easy way out and went deus ex machina and killed off Gigi randomly -- he had a heart attack while "straining at stool" as medical reports put it. 

On my second viewing (and later ones) I've come to believe Tony found some way to slow-poison Gigi. He had to. He couldn't transfer him to another crew because he'd look weak and indecisive. Uncle Joon told him so, and I think he would have approved this hit. Tony couldn't outright whack Gigi because Gigi did not give him cause, and nobody would believe the "two Black guys carjacked him" thing because they would see right through that.  And if Ralphie suspected Tony had a hand in taking Gigi out of the picture, he was crazy enough to get high or drunk and say something about it publicly, like "I'd like to thank Tony, who made all this possible for me." 

Tony had to settle that power struggle one way or another, and as mobsters always do, he chose money over decency and safety, but he had to make it look like he had nothing to do with it.

Chase modeled a lot of the series off ancient Rome -- the Livia & Joon vs Tony storyline is straight out of I, Claudius -- and the Romans had different methods of assassination for different occasions and I think this was another one. 

This is way it’s the greatest show of all time. All the theory’s make sense. 

[Bogeywon 2519]

13 hours ago, Wade said:

I see your Defiler and raise you Meow

 

Lmao great tune! 

[NorthLoop 14215]

Some good fuckin guitar! 

[dcbc 14487]

I don't know that I buy that Gigi was poisoned by Tony.  Sometimes a cigar just is a cigar.  Some guys can't take the strain of heavy responsibility or a big turd.  I like the ancient Rome tie in, but did they every poison anyone on the Sopranos?  Seems unlikely to me, but I like the exercise.

[VirginiaLonghorn 4777]

On 8/5/2021 at 8:27 AM, Harrison Bergeron said:

I had a drink next to Johnny Sack's brother last night.

The kid inherited the family mole …

[DCA_HORN 725]

Going thru my first real rewatch start to finish.
Somewhere towards the end of season 1 Melfi tells Tony that AJ has stumbled onto existentialism (paraphrased).
Tony: Fucking internet.

This line killed me.

[Dutchrudder 11141]

6 minutes ago, DCA_HORN said:

Going thru my first real rewatch start to finish.
Somewhere towards the end of season 1 Melfi tells Tony that AJ has stumbled onto existentialism (paraphrased).
Tony: Fucking internet.

This line killed me.

Everything regarding AJ just cracks me up. I love him so much, he's such a little shit all the time, but it's just hilarious. 

[mchookem 16336]

just started S6 (rewatch)...

i had forgotten what a building sense of dread there was from about mid-S5 onward. i mean i know what's coming and i'm still feeling it! 

 

[TwiceHorn 31496]

11 minutes ago, mchookem said:

just started S6 (rewatch)...

i had forgotten what a building sense of dread there was from about mid-S5 onward. i mean i know what's coming and i'm still feeling it! 

 

Agreed.  The tension between the NY and NJ families escalates, quietly. Leotardo is a menace.  Sack acts like he's going to explode and do something stupid and dangerous at any moment.  Even Artie Bucco is wound too tight. And Tony is more happy-go-lucky than ever, it seems, notwithstanding his outbursts.

[billfromlaketravis 11517]

Mob buffs, any theories on what real NYC Crime Family Phil/Johnny Sack’s family was modeled after? 
 

I would say the Gambinos, but they borrowed stuff from all 5. 

[Fletch 5800]

4 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Everything regarding AJ just cracks me up. I love him so much, he's such a little shit all the time, but it's just hilarious. 

Like Jackie Jr. and Ralphie, they aren’t my favorite characters but they definitely gave some of the better story lines by driving T nuts 

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:17 PM, qwertyu1234 said:

Those 2 are the ones people talk about being the worst, but the episode about Christopher Columbus is the leader of the pack in that regard.

Luxury Lounge is also not very good. Except for the problems between Benny and Artie, its trash.  The Ben Kingsley story line is bad.  

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

6 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Mob buffs, any theories on what real NYC Crime Family Phil/Johnny Sack’s family was modeled after? 
 

I would say the Gambinos, but they borrowed stuff from all 5. 

From what's I've read the DiMea family was loosely based on the Boiardo family, which would make the New York crew more akin to the Genoveses. However, agreed that story arcs were inspired by a couple fo Jersey families and all the New York ones. I think Chase took bits and pieces from different guys and events.

[CooterBrown 18015]

Made it to S2E3. That’s it for me. Maybe I’m just racist against east coast Italians but I can’t stand watching or listening to any of these characters. Liked bits and pieces here and there but overall it just doesn’t do it for me.

[RGBIII 22840]

Watching for the first time. Just through S1, really enjoying it

[qwertyu1234 496]

Cooter Brown never had the makings of a varsity Sopranos watcher.

[Buzzrock 14922]

Pine Barrens is still so great. Probably my favorite episode.

I wonder if this show could be made today. All the overt racism and no one besides Meadow really cares.

[billfromlaketravis 11517]

On 8/9/2021 at 9:02 PM, Harrison Bergeron said:

From what's I've read the DiMea family was loosely based on the Boiardo family, which would make the New York crew more akin to the Genoveses. However, agreed that story arcs were inspired by a couple fo Jersey families and all the New York ones. I think Chase took bits and pieces from different guys and events.

Do you have some links? It’s interesting take. Most people immediately associate the Sopranos with DeCavalcante Crime Family. The Jersey thing, similar leadership structure at the beginning of the show, and the similarities between Vinny Ocean and Tony. 
 

But I could see Genovese Jersey Faction too. Phil always called the Sopranos a glorified crew. 

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

9 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Do you have some links? It’s interesting take. Most people immediately associate the Sopranos with DeCavalcante Crime Family. The Jersey thing, similar leadership structure at the beginning of the show, and the similarities between Vinny Ocean and Tony. 
 

But I could see Genovese Jersey Faction too. Phil always called the Sopranos a glorified crew. 

I can dig some up. Usually it is more of "both" vs. one ... rethinking it the idiots in the Brooklyn crew are probably more akin to Colombos.

https://richardlinnett.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/the-real-sopranos.pdf

https://nypost.com/2007/04/08/brutal-and-grisly-truth-of-garden-states-real-sopranos/

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Harrison Bergeron

[Landomatic 3813]

12 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Made it to S2E3. That’s it for me. Maybe I’m just racist against east coast Italians but I can’t stand watching or listening to any of these characters. Liked bits and pieces here and there but overall it just doesn’t do it for me.

[Santo89 18]

18 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

Pine Barrens is still so great. Probably my favorite episode.

I wonder if this show could be made today. All the overt racism and no one besides Meadow really cares.

The Talking Sopranos podcast  on this episode is a really good listen. 

[lateshow 1304]

7 hours ago, Santo89 said:

The Talking Sopranos podcast  on this episode is a really good listen. 

I love that pod. 

[Dennis Taylor 18830]

The Phul Leotardo hit popped up on my YouTube suggestions yesterday ....

[mchookem 16336]

finished my rewatch last night!

Tony was just a horrible person. forget his 'job'...just interpersonally, so many petty, mean things he did, for no reason other than he was mean and petty and couldn't stand anyone else being happy! Janice, Bobby, Paulie, Christopher...he just loved emotionally wounding people for no reason other than their happiness/positivity made him feel worse. and the spontaneous lashing out (physical and verbal) at people for no discernable reason, when he was feeling bad, inflicting pain on innocent bystanders...

just like Livia. he was his mother's child through and through.

the way Meadow and AJ spoke to their parents...good grief. i can't believe they didn't get their faces slapped more often. i know AJ provoked the rare physical reaction from Tony...but my god when Meadow was younger, the way she treated/spoke to Carmela...oof. they were both huge spoiled obnoxious brats...and it was mostly Carmela's fault. 

the demise of Junior and Johnny Sack hit me more this time, probably bc i'm older myself...but the 'nobody escapes death/aging' theme was more of an emotional punch.

Carmela's driving force was money money money and she loved it. i had forgotten her basically flaunting her new Porsche to Ginny Sack. much less sympathetic than i remember. the rabbi had her number.

Bobby and Sil getting it in the end made me sad. Christopher was just a walking tragedy, things were never going to go well in life for him.

i liked the dream sequences a lot.

Melfi was infatuated with Tony...but other than medication she didn't help him a bit...he was the same angry, mean, lying, depressive personality at the end as he was at the start, just less panic attacks.

such a terrific show...but the last 2 seasons were incredibly dark, even on rewatch. Bobby really made me sad.

also...put me in the 'Tony's dead' camp. you never see it coming.

 

[TwiceHorn 31496]

32 minutes ago, mchookem said:

finished my rewatch last night!

Tony was just a horrible person. forget his 'job'...just interpersonally, so many petty, mean things he did, for no reason other than he was mean and petty and couldn't stand anyone else being happy! Janice, Bobby, Paulie, Christopher...he just loved emotionally wounding people for no reason other than their happiness/positivity made him feel worse. and the spontaneous lashing out (physical and verbal) at people for no discernable reason, when he was feeling bad, inflicting pain on innocent bystanders...

just like Livia. he was his mother's child through and through.

the way Meadow and AJ spoke to their parents...good grief. i can't believe they didn't get their faces slapped more often. i know AJ provoked the rare physical reaction from Tony...but my god when Meadow was younger, the way she treated/spoke to Carmela...oof. they were both huge spoiled obnoxious brats...and it was mostly Carmela's fault. 

the demise of Junior and Johnny Sack hit me more this time, probably bc i'm older myself...but the 'nobody escapes death/aging' theme was more of an emotional punch.

Carmela's driving force was money money money and she loved it. i had forgotten her basically flaunting her new Porsche to Ginny Sack. much less sympathetic than i remember. the rabbi had her number.

Bobby and Sil getting it in the end made me sad. Christopher was just a walking tragedy, things were never going to go well in life for him.

i liked the dream sequences a lot.

Melfi was infatuated with Tony...but other than medication she didn't help him a bit...he was the same angry, mean, lying, depressive personality at the end as he was at the start, just less panic attacks.

such a terrific show...but the last 2 seasons were incredibly dark, even on rewatch. Bobby really made me sad.

also...put me in the 'Tony's dead' camp. you never see it coming.

 

Same.

I liked Bobby a lot, too.  He seemed to have a lot of redeeming qualities.  I didn't remember the whole scenario at the lake where it was revealed that he'd never whacked anyone and Tony pushed him into it as revenge for the fight.

I was closely watching the final scenes and the *snap to black* caught me by surprise (meaning I seemed to remember more "hints" on prior watches).

On this watch, it seemed to me that the theme of the show was somewhat less "Tony is complicated," but more like the "complex private lives of mobsters," of which Tony was an example of kind of a "middling one," part family man, part sociopath murdering degenerate, and with "excuses" for his behavior and the possibility of redemption through therapy.  Bobby was probably the closest to a decent, regular human being.  Paulie kind of the opposite as a near-complete degenerate, or maybe Leotardo.  Christopher oscillated between the poles and was another example perhaps of bad family life and addiction leading him astray.

And yeah, I think your analysis of Carmela is spot-on, and the rest of the wives, too.  They had their qualms, but never actually did anything about it.  Angie Pussy became a low-level mobster herself, ffs.

And while yes, I think Melfi had some "bad boy" attraction to Tony, at root she thought she would redeem him through therapy.  Until the whole psych crowd bombed her with the current literature on therapy and sociopaths.

[mchookem 16336]

Chrissy's main problem, aside from addiction of course... he just wasn't smart. not even just 'not book smart' (his attempt at actually writing was terrible lol)... he wasn't even really street smart, seemed like Tony and/or Paulie were constantly having to reprimand him, explain things to him, he could never read a room or reason thru a problem. i don't think he would have been successful in any line of work, really. i mean the only thing we really saw him be 'good' at was his brief acting stint...and he beat the shit out of that guy and never went back. his temper was actually worse than Tony's in that if he got confused or cornered or overwhelmed, his default was to lash out and kill someone (whereas Tony just beat you with a phone or made you feel like shit about yourself lol). kind of like Pesci in Goodfellas. yes, i see the irony 😄

overall, this rewatch i found myself feeling much less charitable about most of the characters - wives, kids, Melfi, especially Tony. i may just be getting old myself lol

amazing such a group of horrible. selfish, immoral people made for some of the best tv ever!! but i guess that's the trick 😁

[Gil Bang 25975]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Same.

I liked Bobby a lot, too.  He seemed to have a lot of redeeming qualities.  I didn't remember the whole scenario at the lake where it was revealed that he'd never whacked anyone and Tony pushed him into it as revenge for the fight.

I was closely watching the final scenes and the *snap to black* caught me by surprise (meaning I seemed to remember more "hints" on prior watches).

On this watch, it seemed to me that the theme of the show was somewhat less "Tony is complicated," but more like the "complex private lives of mobsters," of which Tony was an example of kind of a "middling one," part family man, part sociopath murdering degenerate, and with "excuses" for his behavior and the possibility of redemption through therapy.  Bobby was probably the closest to a decent, regular human being.  Paulie kind of the opposite as a near-complete degenerate, or maybe Leotardo.  Christopher oscillated between the poles and was another example perhaps of bad family life and addiction leading him astray.

And yeah, I think your analysis of Carmela is spot-on, and the rest of the wives, too.  They had their qualms, but never actually did anything about it.  Angie Pussy became a low-level mobster herself, ffs.

And while yes, I think Melfi had some "bad boy" attraction to Tony, at root she thought she would redeem him through therapy.  Until the whole psych crowd bombed her with the current literature on therapy and sociopaths.

I think I posted here, or maybe TOS, that I've always felt the Bobby character was a mobster only because his dad had been a mobster.  Had dad been a cop, longshoreman, etc, that's where Bobby would have ended up. 

[mchookem 16336]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

On this watch, it seemed to me that the theme of the show was somewhat less "Tony is complicated," but more like the "complex private lives of mobsters," of which Tony was an example of kind of a "middling one," part family man, part sociopath murdering degenerate, and with "excuses" for his behavior and the possibility of redemption through therapy.  Bobby was probably the closest to a decent, regular human being.  Paulie kind of the opposite as a near-complete degenerate, or maybe Leotardo.  Christopher oscillated between the poles and was another example perhaps of bad family life and addiction leading him astray.

 

the name you're looking for here is Ralphie...Ralphie was a complete degenerate with zero redeeming qualities. 

 

[dcbc 14487]

All of the "Tony is an awful person" sentiment is spot on.  But I love Tony, especially at his worst.  Thankfully, it's just a well played character. 

[TwiceHorn 31496]

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

the name you're looking for here is Ralphie...Ralphie was a complete degenerate with zero redeeming qualities. 

 

Yeah, there were several "archetypes" to compare and contrast with Ton.  Sack seemed pretty comparable to Tony.

And Tony Blundetto came so close . . . . 

Spoiler

I still love Leotardo's head getting squashed so much.

 

[billfromlaketravis 11517]

1 hour ago, dcbc said:

All of the "Tony is an awful person" sentiment is spot on.  But I love Tony, especially at his worst.  Thankfully, it's just a well played character. 

Agreed, but his decision making frustrated me throughout the show. Particularly Christopher. He made a heroin addict his de facto underboss. 
 

The curb stomping scene was probably my favorite Tony violent act. 

[Guest Lobo]

So much of what we're discussing is Chase's tacit commentary on what he thinks of the American Mafia.  That we're looking in on an group of people...that aren't all that fucking smart.  They are given, as Henry Hill says, a license to steal.  And they still fuck it up.  They have a built-in, multi-generational racket that provides income and insulation for decades.  And every new group manages to fuck it up.  It's because they're stupid.  Chase and Grey manage to breakdown the romanticism we have with the Mob during the Sopranos.  Mainly by showing us a much deeper dive into their family/personal life.  But also, episode after episode, demonstrating to us that these are not only shitty human beings (as stated above), but they are also complete and utter morons of the highest order.  These are the dumbest fucking criminals in America but they thrive on legacy and inertia.  I know Tony got a glimpse of a high IQ one time, but overall---these are the dumbest fucking people in the American Northeast.  They think it's because they're Italian they are owed something, but it's actually their biggest liability.  Chase is so fucking obvious about it that every dumbfuck Chicago and Jersey Italian I know thinks the show is a fucking compliment.  That's how my suspicion is confirmed.  

That being said, one of the greatest 3 shows that will ever be watched.  

[mchookem 16336]

[Wade 464]

On 8/11/2021 at 7:47 PM, Buzzrock said:

Pine Barrens is still so great. Probably my favorite episode.

I wonder if this show could be made today. All the overt racism and no one besides Meadow really cares.

"Selfish prick, I'm dying here!"

"So fuckin' die already!"

Paulie's response kills me every time

 

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

 

[Buzzrock 14922]

The guy who played Johnny Sac definitely made the last couple of seasons edgy.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:01 PM, mchookem said:

Chrissy's main problem, aside from addiction of course... he just wasn't smart. not even just 'not book smart' (his attempt at actually writing was terrible lol)... he wasn't even really street smart, seemed like Tony and/or Paulie were constantly having to reprimand him, explain things to him, he could never read a room or reason thru a problem. i don't think he would have been successful in any line of work, really. i mean the only thing we really saw him be 'good' at was his brief acting stint...and he beat the shit out of that guy and never went back. his temper was actually worse than Tony's in that if he got confused or cornered or overwhelmed, his default was to lash out and kill someone (whereas Tony just beat you with a phone or made you feel like shit about yourself lol). kind of like Pesci in Goodfellas. yes, i see the irony 😄

overall, this rewatch i found myself feeling much less charitable about most of the characters - wives, kids, Melfi, especially Tony. i may just be getting old myself lol

amazing such a group of horrible. selfish, immoral people made for some of the best tv ever!! but i guess that's the trick 😁

He was either a really good shot or a really lucky shot.  Because the head shot on the Russian and a few others were excellent (killing Sean G after taking two bullets and using his left hand plus when he shot the motorcycle gangster while under fire after stealing the case of wine).  He was a good soldier because he was a good shot, calm under fire, and had balls as big as an Irish broad's ass.  He can also smoke a cigarette in the rain with his hands tied behind his back. That nose is like a natural canopy.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Tony was a lot more despicable in later seasons than he was in season 1.  The shit where he made Janice lose it.  Bobby B fight and retaliation. Trying to fuck Adriana. Murdering Chrissy. Encouraging Chrissy to relapse. The shit with the cop who pulled him over.  Beating up Zellman.

Plus, he tore out the steak recipe from Melfi's waiting room magazine.

[Deej 76831]

30 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Trying to fuck Adriana.

I see no problem with this one. I mean, c'mon...

 

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Tony was a lot more despicable in later seasons than he was in season 1.  The shit where he made Janice lose it.  Bobby B fight and retaliation. Trying to fuck Adriana. Murdering Chrissy. Encouraging Chrissy to relapse. The shit with the cop who pulled him over.  Beating up Zellman.

Plus, he tore out the steak recipe from Melfi's waiting room magazine.

I don't think he encouraged Chris to relapse, he just subtly suggested he was a defective pussy because he couldn't handle his shit. Total shit bag.  Thought Chris was weak because he needed AA(therapy) to function.  So ignorant he couldn't see that he also needed therapy to function.  And his daughter.  And his son.  Tony was by far the most toxic person on the show.  He only loves/appreciates his kids when they are doing something that makes him proud or tragedy strikes a family similarly situated.  He treats AJ like shit for years until Justin Siffereto takes the arrow to the chest.  He goes back to treating AJ like shit shortly after.  He loves Meadow until she expresses her own opinions and bangs a black dude.  Then she is a piece of shit.  Loves her again when she stops banging black dude.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

13 hours ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

I don't think he encouraged Chris to relapse, he just subtly suggested he was a defective pussy because he couldn't handle his shit. Total shit bag.  Thought Chris was weak because he needed AA(therapy) to function.  So ignorant he couldn't see that he also needed therapy to function.  And his daughter.  And his son.  Tony was by far the most toxic person on the show.  He only loves/appreciates his kids when they are doing something that makes him proud or tragedy strikes a family similarly situated.  He treats AJ like shit for years until Justin Siffereto takes the arrow to the chest.  He goes back to treating AJ like shit shortly after.  He loves Meadow until she expresses her own opinions and bangs a black dude.  Then she is a piece of shit.  Loves her again when she stops banging black dude.

I mean he poured Chrissy a glass of wine after they stole that case from the Vipers.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

On 8/15/2021 at 7:39 PM, Lobo said:

So much of what we're discussing is Chase's tacit commentary on what he thinks of the American Mafia.  That we're looking in on an group of people...that aren't all that fucking smart.  They are given, as Henry Hill says, a license to steal.  And they still fuck it up.  They have a built-in, multi-generational racket that provides income and insulation for decades.  And every new group manages to fuck it up.  It's because they're stupid.  Chase and Grey manage to breakdown the romanticism we have with the Mob during the Sopranos.  Mainly by showing us a much deeper dive into their family/personal life.  But also, episode after episode, demonstrating to us that these are not only shitty human beings (as stated above), but they are also complete and utter morons of the highest order.  These are the dumbest fucking criminals in America but they thrive on legacy and inertia.  I know Tony got a glimpse of a high IQ one time, but overall---these are the dumbest fucking people in the American Northeast.  They think it's because they're Italian they are owed something, but it's actually their biggest liability.  Chase is so fucking obvious about it that every dumbfuck Chicago and Jersey Italian I know thinks the show is a fucking compliment.  That's how my suspicion is confirmed.  

That being said, one of the greatest 3 shows that will ever be watched.  

This plus the show makes a mockery of the whole Omerta bullshit. I mean not only are these guys morons but also they would turn on each other at the slightest opportunity whether directly via greed or cooperation with the feds. A group that has stupidity, greed, and machismo turned up to 11 is not going to end well.

Some of the little things I noticed in the re-watch was 1) how the bosses feel obligated to receive a piece of everything (Tony not only not letting the one guy go to Florida but then taking a piece of his aunt's inheritance was the nadir for me) and 2) the crazy spoils splits: the guy that finds the score gets 50% while the guys that risk their lives get 50% ... what happened to the 10% finder's fee.

And Tony's too stupid to realize shoving his wealth in his capos' / soldiers' faces is not a great way to win loyalty.

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

44 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I mean he poured Chrissy a glass of wine after they stole that case from the Vipers.

Whats that the name of your Girl Scout troop?

[Jerry Callo 8704]

21 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

as big as an Irish broad's ass.

A bit hypocritical for you to making jokes about the size of a woman's ass.

[smuggs 9353]

On 8/11/2021 at 7:35 PM, CooterBrown said:

Made it to S2E3. That’s it for me. 

Dude you bailed on Richie Aprile’s debut episode? Shit’s about to get real, hang in there for a few more.