The Sopranos

[Bogeywon 2519]

8 hours ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

Whats that the name of your Girl Scout troop?

We’re with the vipers we’re with the vipers!

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

9 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

This plus the show makes a mockery of the whole Omerta bullshit. I mean not only are these guys morons but also they would turn on each other at the slightest opportunity whether directly via greed or cooperation with the feds. A group that has stupidity, greed, and machismo turned up to 11 is not going to end well.

Some of the little things I noticed in the re-watch was 1) how the bosses feel obligated to receive a piece of everything (Tony not only not letting the one guy go to Florida but then taking a piece of his aunt's inheritance was the nadir for me) and 2) the crazy spoils splits: the guy that finds the score gets 50% while the guys that risk their lives get 50% ... what happened to the 10% finder's fee.

And Tony's too stupid to realize shoving his wealth in his capos' / soldiers' faces is not a great way to win loyalty.

One subplot to the mafia/drug gangs is that unless you're at the top of the pyramid, there's not that much money.  Paulie is a capo and he lives in a modest apartment it seems but Tony lives in a giant house who has a wife that sucks up cash like a vacuum cleaner.  Most criminal orgs are like that.

We just finished a rewatch.  My 4th prolly but it's been a while and the wife's first.  What I had forgotten or never realized is how Chase wrote all these characters to be bad people.  Even Silvio (who has fairly likeable) had moment where you realized he was a bad person.  (Hitting strippers and whatnot.)  Bobby might have been the only decent person.

 

[HornOnTheBayou 8937]

14 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

We just finished a rewatch.  My 4th prolly but it's been a while and the wife's first.  What I had forgotten or never realized is how Chase wrote all these characters to be bad people.  Even Silvio (who has fairly likeable) had moment where you realized he was a bad person.  (Hitting strippers and whatnot.)  Bobby might have been the only decent person.

 

It took you four rewatches to figure out these guys are bad? 

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

Just now, HornOnTheBayou said:

It took you four rewatches to figure out these guys are bad? 

Naw, just reminded about it.  I remembered the funny parts about Silvio, Paulie, etc.  Forgotten that they were all bad people at their core.

[Guest Lobo]

Shit, Little Carmine was probably the least sociopathic asshole of all the made guys.  A complete fucking idiot, but not the immoral fuckbag the rest of 'em were. 

[Deej 76842]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

but not the immoral fuckbag the rest of 'em were. 

Yet they have nothing on politicians. 

[Guest Lobo]

Well, you gotta give the crooked politicians a little bit of credit.  They had to earn their "keep", their scam...every 2-6 years.  They had to keep hustling to raise money, get their kickbacks, bring money and projects to their district, get votes, committee power, etc.  The fucking Italians just assumed because they were Italian that they were just owed this shit, just due their money.  

La Cosa Nostra is actually a pretty solid business model.  Even the Catholic Church borrowed their Business Plan notebook.  The reason it never took off and truly dominated is because it's run by Italians, Europe's answer to Louisiana.  

Edited August 18, 2021 by Lobo

[smuggs 9353]

Damn Silvio did way worse than just hit strippers…

[Bogeywon 2519]

14 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Well, you gotta give the crooked politicians a little bit of credit.  They had to earn their "keep", their scam...every 2-6 years.  They had to keep hustling to raise money, get their kickbacks, bring money and projects to their district, get votes, committee power, etc.  The fucking Italians just assumed because they were Italian that they were just owed this shit, just due their money.  

La Cosa Nostra is actually a pretty solid business model.  Even the Catholic Church borrowed their Business Plan notebook.  The reason it never took off and truly dominated is because it's run by Italians, Europe's answer to Louisiana.  

Man you got something against Italians?

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

55 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

One subplot to the mafia/drug gangs is that unless you're at the top of the pyramid, there's not that much money.  Paulie is a capo and he lives in a modest apartment it seems but Tony lives in a giant house who has a wife that sucks up cash like a vacuum cleaner.  Most criminal orgs are like that.

We just finished a rewatch.  My 4th prolly but it's been a while and the wife's first.  What I had forgotten or never realized is how Chase wrote all these characters to be bad people.  Even Silvio (who has fairly likeable) had moment where you realized he was a bad person.  (Hitting strippers and whatnot.)  Bobby might have been the only decent person.

 

That was one of my favorite chapters of Freakonomics ... the one about the low-level drug dealers.

Tony's lifestyle did not make sense during round two ... at the beginning he's a capo, and not obvious he's the highest earner but got his stripes via his father and Uncle Jun ... but he has most of the accoutrements season 1 and season 6, and during one of the early (season 3?) raids he obviously has lots of cash stowed away in the vents and with the chlorine. It is an add juxtaposition his season 1 lifestyle vs. the other capos in later seasons (even Silvio as consigliere). Maybe that was just laziness on Chase's part, but Tony seemed to be living like a 5F Boss in S1.

Regarding Paulie, that never made sense. Given the Tony proforma, seems like taking care of his mom would not have been difficult given no kids, no wife. He's obviously not blowing it on $5K hookers and blow. Maybe a plot hole if we want to nit-pick. Even Johnny Sack's post-boss place seemed awfully modest compared to Tony's pad as capo.

 

[strangulation! 1716]

59 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

One subplot to the mafia/drug gangs is that unless you're at the top of the pyramid, there's not that much money.  Paulie is a capo and he lives in a modest apartment it seems but Tony lives in a giant house who has a wife that sucks up cash like a vacuum cleaner.  Most criminal orgs are like that.

We just finished a rewatch.  My 4th prolly but it's been a while and the wife's first.  What I had forgotten or never realized is how Chase wrote all these characters to be bad people.  Even Silvio (who has fairly likeable) had moment where you realized he was a bad person.  (Hitting strippers and whatnot.)  Bobby might have been the only decent person.

 

Don’t forget Tony started off as a capo and still had that big house, presumably for a while as there weren’t any references to just moving in during the first season. I think that’s one of the few writing errors on the show.

[Guest Lobo]

2 minutes ago, Bogeywon said:

Man you got something against Italians?

Just the shitty ones. 

[MissingInAction 25114]

Back in my club rat days many moons ago I hung out at a place where it was easy to get whatever you wanted. It was pretty obvious who was running the black market side of things and you did NOT fuck with them whatsoever. Some brothers from Pakistan.

One night a couple of track suit wearing greasers came in completely owning the stereotype. Getting table service, going around shaking everyones hand. They get to us and it turns out they are passing out samples with the hand shakes. "If you boys need anything you come to one of my guys here. They'll be here every night the place is open."

Never saw them again there or anywhere else. /myitaliangangstercsb

 

[CurlyDumps 4476]

On 8/15/2021 at 12:21 PM, TwiceHorn said:

On this watch, it seemed to me that the theme of the show was somewhat less "Tony is complicated," but more like the "complex private lives of mobsters," of which Tony was an example of kind of a "middling one," part family man, part sociopath murdering degenerate, and with "excuses" for his behavior and the possibility of redemption through therapy.  Bobby was probably the closest to a decent, regular human being.  Paulie kind of the opposite as a near-complete degenerate, or maybe Leotardo.  Christopher oscillated between the poles and was another example perhaps of bad family life and addiction leading him astray.

On 8/15/2021 at 1:01 PM, mchookem said:

overall, this rewatch i found myself feeling much less charitable about most of the characters - wives, kids, Melfi, especially Tony. i may just be getting old myself lol

amazing such a group of horrible. selfish, immoral people made for some of the best tv ever!! but i guess that's the trick 😁

Two things have stuck with me that I think get at the core of the series. 

In an interview somewhere Chase talked about how he thought mobsters would be depressed all the time - a life of constant stress, looking over your shoulder, living in fear etc. He has also said he wasn’t particularly interested in the mob/gangster genre before The Sopranos. So, the idea of  gangsters dealing with stress, depression, anxiety, etc was at the very core of the show. It’s what drove everything.

The ancient Ojibwe saying. I think Chase commented that they put it in the show because it really summed up the characters. Tony, Chris, and Paulie in particular. Maybe Carmela too. Selfish, self-absorbed people who go about in pity of themselves. 

[NorthLoop 14217]

9 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

It took you four rewatches to figure out these guys are bad? 

 

[Guest Lobo]

7 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Two things have stuck with me that I think get at the core of the series. 

In an interview somewhere Chase talked about how he thought mobsters would be depressed all the time - a life of constant stress, looking over your shoulder, living in fear etc. He has also said he wasn’t particularly interested in the mob/gangster genre before The Sopranos. So, the idea of  gangsters dealing with stress, depression, anxiety, etc was at the very core of the show. It’s what drove everything.

The ancient Ojibwe saying. I think Chase commented that they put it in the show because it really summed up the characters. Tony, Chris, and Paulie in particular. Maybe Carmela too. Selfish, self-absorbed people who go about in pity of themselves. 

I know Surlies who are inspired! 

Jokes aside, good take.  I think a lot of mafia movies dealt with the stress and pressure and paranoia.  But none had ever looked at depression and anxiety as you say.  And how their depression and self-loathing permeated into those around them (be they other mobsters or loved ones, or in this brilliant case---a therapist).  And the family dynamic of season 3 (??) was incredibly captivating, mainly showed that Edie Falco was the best actor on the show and that was fucking saying something.  But while people complained the show was deviating from its mob roots, I found that shit captivating.  How these people can just turn on and off switches inside their psyche that allow them to be multiple people in a given day---far different than how regular folks like us switch from work mode to family mode.  These guys have 10 gears that are constantly shifting through in a given day.  Almost functioning multiple-personality disorder.  That eventually just tears away at your psyche and your body and your soul.  We watched those people crumble in different ways and then reassemble themselves, over and over.  Is it, to me anyway, a very rare cognitive skill.  Which is doubly curious since other than that, most of the characters are on the show couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper bag.  The only other psychological cross-section we see like this is Michael Corleone, but it takes 3 movies and 10 hours to get through it.  The Sopranos took us into that world each and every week for 53 minutes, in surreal fashion.  

I think I like this show.

[lateshow 1304]

13 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

That was one of my favorite chapters of Freakonomics ... the one about the low-level drug dealers.

Tony's lifestyle did not make sense during round two ... at the beginning he's a capo, and not obvious he's the highest earner but got his stripes via his father and Uncle Jun ... but he has most of the accoutrements season 1 and season 6, and during one of the early (season 3?) raids he obviously has lots of cash stowed away in the vents and with the chlorine. It is an add juxtaposition his season 1 lifestyle vs. the other capos in later seasons (even Silvio as consigliere). Maybe that was just laziness on Chase's part, but Tony seemed to be living like a 5F Boss in S1.

Regarding Paulie, that never made sense. Given the Tony proforma, seems like taking care of his mom would not have been difficult given no kids, no wife. He's obviously not blowing it on $5K hookers and blow. Maybe a plot hole if we want to nit-pick. Even Johnny Sack's post-boss place seemed awfully modest compared to Tony's pad as capo.

 

I think he's just old school and cheap. Kinda like Junior still living in the same old shitty house. Remember him sitting and clipping coupons?

Also, he was more of a street guy and never got into the stock schemes and other higher level scams the family was involved in during their run. 

[billfromlaketravis 11519]

33 minutes ago, lateshow said:

I think he's just old school and cheap. Kinda like Junior still living in the same old shitty house. Remember him sitting and clipping coupons?

Also, he was more of a street guy and never got into the stock schemes and other higher level scams the family was involved in during their run. 

This. Junior and Paulie are old school, cheap, and want to stay off of law enforcement's radars. 

Johnny Sack is kind of in the same mold, but he wants a nice house for his wife and daughters. 

Despite all the psychiatry BS, Tony enjoys the life. He likes the big house with the big car.  

All this ironic because : Johnny Sack dies in prison. Junior is under house arrest for much of the show. And Paulie takes nearly a season long vacation in an Ohio jail for an illegal gun. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by billfromlaketravis

[Player 4575]

Agreed - after stints in the army and various correctional facilities, that meager apartment with an ezboy recliner, color tv, and multiple pairs of white dress shoes was probably the height of opulence for an OG like Paulie.

[lateshow 1304]

9 minutes ago, Player said:

Agreed - after stints in the army and various correctional facilities, that meager apartment with an ezboy recliner, color tv, and multiple pairs of white dress shoes was probably the height of opulence for an OG like Paulie.

Come on, man! It's a condo! Or else he would've had Sal Vitro take care of his lawn. 

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

1 hour ago, lateshow said:

I think he's just old school and cheap. Kinda like Junior still living in the same old shitty house. Remember him sitting and clipping coupons?

Also, he was more of a street guy and never got into the stock schemes and other higher level scams the family was involved in during their run. 

I noticed in my re-watch his flaunting his wealth (him and Carmela) did not sit well with the Capos or the soldiers. At noted earlier, he and they are all just dumbfucks. Despite his high IQ, he's got zero EQ.

[Buzzrock 14926]

The worst recurring character has to be the priest. Very unlikable.

[Chopper 17239]

Not directly Sopranos related but dropping here for any who find it interesting since it's the NY mafia. "It was the score of several lifetimes."

https://nypost.com/2016/04/10/last-living-crew-member-opens-up-about-infamous-hotel-heist/

 

[TonyTexas 10518]

Interview with Chase about the prequel 

https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-features/david-chase-many-saints-newark-interview-1211288/

[Guest Lobo]

So remember in S.1, Tony is turning 40?  Say that puts him born around '59 or '60.  Many Saints apparently takes place mainly in the late 60's with Tony as a teenager.  Wouldn't Tony just be 8 or 9?  

and also, I know it's been covered but I haven't done an all-thru viewing of the show since it originally aired 15 years ago.....

Tony calls Christopher his cousin at times, then as they get closer, begins to refer to him as his nephew.  We know why this happens.  But there is apparently some explanation that is technically only related by marriage.  That is still important to the Cosa Nostra construct, and Tony is obviously starved to groom someone related to him somehow since Meadow and AJ aren't getting into the business. 

So Christopher is Carmella's second cousin/cousin once removed.  Makes sense given the age difference.  So that means Christopher's Dad (Dickie) is Carmella's older first cousin.  Her parents don't have that same name, but could be from the mom's maiden name side.  So you've got the mom's contemporary---Ray Liotta and then the younger Dickie and they're all related along with Carmella and her mom probably?  It is odd then, but Chase may have no forecasted this, how shocked and appalled at the mob life that Carmella's parents are so often during the show.  I'm assuming there'll be some throwaway line in this movie about how they were insulated from all that.  Like a pair of A.J.'s.  

Anyway, should be obvious---we are all waiting with baited breath for this as we go back and analyze shit.  

[Gil Bang 25979]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:40 AM, Harrison Bergeron said:

This plus the show makes a mockery of the whole Omerta bullshit. I mean not only are these guys morons but also they would turn on each other at the slightest opportunity whether directly via greed or cooperation with the feds. A group that has stupidity, greed, and machismo turned up to 11 is not going to end well.

Some of the little things I noticed in the re-watch was 1) how the bosses feel obligated to receive a piece of everything (Tony not only not letting the one guy go to Florida but then taking a piece of his aunt's inheritance was the nadir for me) and 2) the crazy spoils splits: the guy that finds the score gets 50% while the guys that risk their lives get 50% ... what happened to the 10% finder's fee.

And Tony's too stupid to realize shoving his wealth in his capos' / soldiers' faces is not a great way to win loyalty.

That shit happens in a lot of organizations. 

My buddy Lou is the #2 man for a large painting contractor here in San Diego.  He reports only to the owner, and he was the owner's 1st hire.  Now, they've got well over 100 employees.  The owner lives in a fucking mansion in Rancho Santa Fe. 

A few years back, Lou was looking for a site to hold the company Christmas party.  The owner makes his infrequent appearance in the office, and asks Lou what he's working on.  Lou tells him.  The owner says we can just do it at my house.  Hire a coordinator, caterer, etc.  Lou is like sure motherfucker, let's have everybody over to your 10,000 SF mansion on Saturday, and then on Monday I can explain to Chuy, Juan, and Pedro how we can't afford to bump them from 12 bucks an hour to 13.  

[dcbc 14492]

On 8/17/2021 at 9:01 PM, smuggs said:

Damn Silvio did way worse than just hit strippers…

Yeah, he piano wired somebody, right?

[dcbc 14492]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:27 AM, billfromlaketravis said:

Johnny Sack is kind of in the same mold, but he wants a nice house for his wife and daughters. 

Well, he needed more room for Jenny . . . and the mole

[Gil Bang 25979]

5 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Well, he needed more room for Jenny . . . and the mole

That brings up a question that's been in my mind for a long time.  Does the casting director say to the "Jenny" actress; "good morning...we've brought you in today because we are casting the role of a mobster's fat wife, and we loved your glossies.  So, can you stay as fat as you are now for several seasons, and do you have a problem with your character being made fun of for being a hog?  Oh, and we envision you with a secret stash of hershey bars which you will stuff in your face in an episode.  But, there will be no nudity"

Edited August 20, 2021 by Gil Bang

[HornPhD 1368]

48 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

That shit happens in a lot of organizations. 

My buddy Lou is the #2 man for a large painting contractor here in San Diego.  He reports only to the owner, and he was the owner's 1st hire.  Now, they've got well over 100 employees.  The owner lives in a fucking mansion in Rancho Santa Fe. 

A few years back, Lou was looking for a site to hold the company Christmas party.  The owner makes his infrequent appearance in the office, and asks Lou what he's working on.  Lou tells him.  The owner says we can just do it at my house.  Hire a coordinator, caterer, etc.  Lou is like sure motherfucker, let's have everybody over to your 10,000 SF mansion on Saturday, and then on Monday I can explain to Chuy, Juan, and Pedro how we can't afford to bump them from 12 bucks an hour to 13.  

I used to work for a small company in Austin and the owner lived in a nice house in the hills with a great view of the city. One year, he hosted a company party at his place. One of the older customer service ladies brought her boyfriend and they got busted having sex in one of the bathrooms. Some unknown person stole some steaks from the fridge. One of the warehouse guys thought it would be a good time to show the owner photos from his most recent horse convention…the one where he dressed up as a horse with a tail coming out of his ass and was ridden around a room.
 

That was the one and only party at his house. 

[smuggs 9353]

1 hour ago, dcbc said:

Yeah, he piano wired somebody, right?

Spoiler

He whacked Adriana. Even though they didn’t show it that was a hard scene to watch.

 

[billfromlaketravis 11519]

1 hour ago, dcbc said:

Yeah, he piano wired somebody, right?

He killed some New York defector and whacked Ad (with a gun). Also fired shots into Big Pussy. 

[Wade 464]

16 hours ago, Lobo said:

So remember in S.1, Tony is turning 40?  Say that puts him born around '59 or '60.  Many Saints apparently takes place mainly in the late 60's with Tony as a teenager.  Wouldn't Tony just be 8 or 9?  

and also, I know it's been covered but I haven't done an all-thru viewing of the show since it originally aired 15 years ago......  

That's a good call-out, and doesn't seem like something Chase would miss on.  Remember When mentioned that Tony was 22 when made his bones in 1982.

[TwiceHorn 31509]

I assume it's accurate, but what's the deal with substituting "g" sound for the "hard c."  Example, gabagool for capocollo, or manigot for manicotti.  I even get dropping the i and slurring the vowels, but the g for c is strange to me.

[Deej 76842]

A lot of what we call the voiceless consonants, like a ‘k’ sound, will be pronounced as a voiced consonant,” says Olivo-Shaw. This is a tricky one to explain, but basically the difference between a voiced and a voiceless consonant can be felt if you place your fingers over your Adam’s apple and say as short of a sound with that consonant as you can. A voiced consonant will cause a vibration, and voiceless will not. So like, when you try to just make a “g” sound, it’ll come out as “guh.” But a “k” sound can be made without using your vocal cords at all, preventing a vibration. So “k” would be voiceless, and “g” would be voiced. 

The “c” sounds, which are really “k” sounds, become voiced, so they turn into “g.” Do the same with the “p,” since that’s a voiceless consonant, and we want voiced ones, so change that to a “b.” The second-to-last vowel, an “o” sound, gets raised, so change that to an “ooh.” And toss out the last syllable. It’s just a vowel, who needs it? Now try again.

Yeah. Gabagool.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-capicola-became-gabagool-the-italian-new-jersey-accent-explained

[Guest Lobo]

"How do you write authentic Jersey Italian dialect so well?"

"I think of a European, then I take away eloquence and literacy."  

Edited August 20, 2021 by Lobo

[TwiceHorn 31509]

45 minutes ago, Deej said:

A lot of what we call the voiceless consonants, like a ‘k’ sound, will be pronounced as a voiced consonant,” says Olivo-Shaw. This is a tricky one to explain, but basically the difference between a voiced and a voiceless consonant can be felt if you place your fingers over your Adam’s apple and say as short of a sound with that consonant as you can. A voiced consonant will cause a vibration, and voiceless will not. So like, when you try to just make a “g” sound, it’ll come out as “guh.” But a “k” sound can be made without using your vocal cords at all, preventing a vibration. So “k” would be voiceless, and “g” would be voiced. 

The “c” sounds, which are really “k” sounds, become voiced, so they turn into “g.” Do the same with the “p,” since that’s a voiceless consonant, and we want voiced ones, so change that to a “b.” The second-to-last vowel, an “o” sound, gets raised, so change that to an “ooh.” And toss out the last syllable. It’s just a vowel, who needs it? Now try again.

Yeah. Gabagool.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-capicola-became-gabagool-the-italian-new-jersey-accent-explained

Since posting, I did a little googling and didn't find that, but a few places where dagos of various stripes denied ever hearing such a thing, in Jersey or anywhere else.

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Since posting, I did a little googling and didn't find that, but a few places where dagos of various stripes denied ever hearing such a thing, in Jersey or anywhere else.

My mother-in-law is from New York.  She absolutely pronounces those words as described in the article.  For instance "capozelli" is pronounced "gabotell."

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

 

Paulie to long-haired AJ when Tony was in the hospital "Lets go Van Helsing."

[Buzzrock 14926]

Binging the show really does shine a bright light on what horrible people they all are.

I remember watching Donnie Brasco with a buddy of mine who is an Italian from Jersey. He was talking about the parking meter scene (Al Pacino’s character was breaking into a parking meter he had stolen to steal the change out of it). He said that’s how most of them are, just desperate scummy criminals trying to get by. Very few make any real money, and those eventually end up dead or in jail.

[Dennis Taylor 18838]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:53 PM, HornPhD said:

I used to work for a small company in Austin and the owner lived in a nice house in the hills with a great view of the city. One year, he hosted a company party at his place. One of the older customer service ladies brought her boyfriend and they got busted having sex in one of the bathrooms. Some unknown person stole some steaks from the fridge. One of the warehouse guys thought it would be a good time to show the owner photos from his most recent horse convention…the one where he dressed up as a horse with a tail coming out of his ass and was ridden around a room.
 

That was the one and only party at his house. 

 

[Sgt Hulk 13793]

So I’m stuck on episode 2 but I keep falling asleep due to boredom. Does it get better? I know this in the history of shows has amazing rating. But it was a brutal bore trying to get through after the titty scene 

[Genco 3041]

6 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Does it get better?

No. All of the awards, accolades and cultural significance is an elaborate ruse.

[Guest Lobo]

Episode Two is actually a test case.  It subtly exploits certain cinematography techniques and screenwriter tropes to see if you'd be willing to elevate a show about 4 science nerds and their cute neighbor into a 12-season, billion dollar enterprise using the same 7 jokes over and over and over again.  

Good Shows evolve, the viewers don't  

[qwertyu1234 496]

3 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

So I’m stuck on episode 2 but I keep falling asleep due to boredom. Does it get better? I know this in the history of shows has amazing rating. But it was a brutal bore trying to get through after the titty scene 

Make it to episode 5, College, the first truly great episode of the series and see if your opinion has changed.

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

10 minutes ago, qwertyu1234 said:

Make it to episode 5, College, the first truly great episode of the series and see if your opinion has changed.

This^^^^^

 

College is so good.

[HornOnTheBayou 8937]

We're all agreed that Janice Soprano is the worst character in television history, right? 

[BigDHornfan 6549]

We're all agreed that Janice Soprano is the worst character in television history, right? 

Tie between her and AJ.

[billfromlaketravis 11519]

58 minutes ago, BigDHornfan said:

Tie between her and AJ.

AJ is much worse. 
 

Janice is at least interesting. Puppeting Richie into challenging Tony as boss, killing Richie, bizarre relationship with Ralphie, seducing Bobby with stolen recipes, terrible parenting of Bobby’s kids, and then her redemptive arc in the final season as a mourning widow. I think she really loved Bobby at the end. He was a sweet guy who took care of business when necessary. It’s nearly impossible to earn Janice’s love and respect, but Bobby was able to do it. 

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, in hindsight---Janice had some subtle arcs to her.  And the actress played it well.  She mirrored Tony in that she ebbed and flowed through vile shitbag to half-ass decent to a handful of people on the rare occasion.  

A.J. was just a character that was written to suck.  That kid actor had nothing to work with.  Shit backstory, shit dialogue, suck in every scene, sulk in the background.  The whole thing is Tony is a 40 year old Catholic Italian.  He has to have multiple kids with his legit wife.  So they write up Meadow and then A.J.  They're not gonna follow typical mob movie/show tropes and have the kid be groomed to take over the seat one day.  So they conjure up A.J.  And there he is, just waiting to suck.  Over and over and over again.  Every once in awhile he fucks up so that Tony and Carmella have something to congeal over or fight over.  But in the end, they could easily have sent him off to that military academy full-time so he'd only show up for a handful of scenes per season and nobody (viewers or people on the show) would have batted an eye.  I'm sure that actor is a nice guy in real life, but I never understood why he got so much screen time.  The tension in Tony's life at home came from Carmella not knowing what she wants in life and Meadow being the perfect reflection of what Tony could have been in another life.