Results of the 2024 Presidential Greatness Project Expert Survey

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

Link to rankings report:

http://www.brandonrottinghaus.com/uploads/1/0/8/7/108798321/presidential_greatness_white_paper_2024.pdf
 

So I’ve come around to putting Lincoln ahead of Washington manly because of Lincoln’s ability to manage a mess that was ultimately created by the reluctance of the founding fathers to abolish slavery.  

Washington and FDR are pretty much tied for the number 2 spot which I find agreeable. 

The other news is this report are the presidents with the largest swings in rank over the past nine years which goes to show how contemporary events often alter how we evaluate history.

Biggest gains since 2015: 

#7 Obama - up 9 
#17 Grant  - up 9

Biggest losers since 2015:

#21 Jackson - down 12

#34 Coolidge - down 7

#25 Polk - down 6

#15 Wilson - down 5

#16 Reagan- down 5

#38 Taylor - down 5

 

Where I disagree - GW Bush is too high at 32, as is Hoover at 36 

I also don’t like ranking current or recent past presidents because it usually takes twenty years to rigorously evaluate the consequences of their decisions in office.  However, Trump at dead last is appropriate. 

Discuss! 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

Agree that it takes time to fully judge a president but you're not going to get much media attention if a survey stops at LBJ. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

I was told by Fox News that Trump should be number one.  Oh well. 
 

I actually agree with Lincoln first with the whole Civil War thing plus being a vampire killer, and Washington and FDR second.  I think LBJ should be higher.  While Vietnam was a shitshow it shouldn’t all be on him since that conflict really started years before he ever took office.  His domestic accomplishments often get over shadowed for some reason. His legislation for Civil Rights, the voting rights act, war on poverty in America, environmental legislation,  public broadcasting (which lead to programs like Sesame Street),  school funding for poorer areas, head start program to help feed poor students, starting Medicare and Medicaid programs for the poor and seniors, national endowment for the humanities and arts, and naming the first African American to the Supreme Court (Thurgood Marshall). His initiatives were for the good of this country and to help those that needed help the most.  He should be above Obama.  
 

CSB/ but I spent my senior year at UT writing a thesis on the Vietnam War and had access to LBJs personal documents at his library.  It was awesome reading presidential briefs with LBJs hand written responses on them saying shit like “go tell that cocksucker McNamara to go fuck himself” and all sorts of comments like that. 

Edited February 22 by Beantown Express 2.0

[chainsaw 9838]

Who cares we have a playoff now

[Hmbre97 6297]

48 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I was told by Fox News that Trump should be number one.  Oh well. 

[Snake Diggity 4614]

My worthless thoughts:

Obama way too high; he was a decent president but disinterested in or incapable of making big foreign policy decisions.  He might rank above average if you put his presidency in the context of him having to deal with being the first black president.

Wilson too high.  He kind of sucked.

I would probably have McKinley and Coolidge a little higher.

I would also have Trump much lower.  I would find a way.

Otherwsie pretty accurate.

[Red Five 40666]

How much higher would Clinton be if he could have kept his schlong in his pants?

[956 Worldwide 34444]

52 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I was told by Fox News that Trump should be number one.  Oh well. 
 

I actually agree with Lincoln first with the whole Civil War thing plus being a vampire killer, and Washington and FDR second.  I think LBJ should be higher.  While Vietnam was a shitshow it shouldn’t all be on him since that conflict really started years before he ever took office.  His domestic accomplishments often get over shadowed for some reason. His legislation for Civil Rights, the voting rights act, war on poverty in America, environmental legislation,  public broadcasting (which lead to programs like Sesame Street),  school funding for poorer areas, head start program to help feed poor students, starting Medicare and Medicaid programs for the poor and seniors, national endowment for the humanities and arts, and naming the first African American to the Supreme Court (Thurgood Marshall). His initiatives were for the good of this country and to help those that needed help the most.  He should be above Obama.  
 

CSB/ but I spent my senior year at UT writing a thesis on the Vietnam War and had access to LBJs personal documents at his library.  It was awesome reading presidential briefs with LBJs hand written responses on them saying shit like “go tell that cocksucker McNamara to go fuck himself” and all sorts of comments like that. 

I agree with the LBJ piece.  I think he’s the most consequential (in a good way) domestic policy president we had post-War. 

I also don’t like to assess presidents too soon.  That said, I think Obama’s legacy is going to be more middle of the road the further away we get, especially on foreign policy. 
 

He inherited the GWOT but made little progress in winding it down.  OBL got offed but thats more symbolic than real and did not require bold or encouraging leadership. 
 

But he talked about but failed to execute a Pacific pivot and we are still trying to figure it out. He continued to believe the PRC could be integrated and managed and did not begin putting up guardrails. 
 

I think he was awful on Russia.  He settled for lukewarm when it came to pushing back and Ukraine/Georgia integrating into NATO and the West. Failed to give real teeth to sanctions or attempts to blunt Russian regional aggression. Allowed Allies to go along to get along.  The “reset” was just such a disaster.  I hate to say it but Mitt Romney was right. 
 

JCPOA is an interesting counter factual.  Trump destroyed it.  But in any case, Iran emerged from Obama II as a more effective and powerful regional player than it was at the beginning. 
 

I think it was the typical technocrat blob mistakes favored by the center-left: settling for getting by and kicking cans down the road so you don’t risk making a mistake. 

[High Plains Drifter 10978]

 

This documentary explains why Washington should absolutely be ranked #1:

 

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

Evaluating right after the president is gone is good.  I think looking at guys at different times is interesting.  LBJ being the best example.  Vietnam was the forefront of everyone's mind so the country was all 'It's just this war and that lying sonofabitch Johnson.'  Looking back now, 50 years later, Vietnam actually shrinks and the racial fight is the biggest thing.  I like having both perspectives and it is interesting seeing short term value of president versus long term.  Obama is a good example otherwise.  We were kumbaya looking at him immediately after.  Now we are like 'why didn't he do something about this obvious festering disease that was underlying the discourse?'

 

Related, I received a framed copy of this for Christmas.

 

It's in my office. LBJ, despite tricking the one UT grad to leave SCOTUS, is awesome.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

Oh, and I commented on this when someone else posted this:  if you look at the chart on page 2 the gap between Trump at last place and Buchanon is second only to the gap between T Roosevelt and Washington.  So he's not just in last place, he way in last place. 

[Kel Varnsen 8430]

nvm... unfunny

Edited February 22 by Kel Varnsen

[Dutchrudder 11115]

More evidence to consider when judging:

 

 

[Hookah Horns 3082]

Obama laughably high. They must be giving him credit for the things he wanted to do but failed due to R obstruction shenanigans. And then there's the foreign policy things others have mentioned. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

What the hell happened for Grant to move up 9 spots?

[BrickHorn 18194]

2 hours ago, Red Five said:

How much higher would Clinton be if he could have kept his schlong in his pants inhaled?

Fify

[Kel Varnsen 8430]

10 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

What the hell happened for Grant to move up 9 spots?

They found out who was buried in his Tomb.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

15 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

What the hell happened for Grant to move up 9 spots?

read commentary elsewhere that said something about some book coming out about him that makes a good argument that the corruption of his cabinet was just yellow journalism of the time that had been unfairly coloring his reputation and that it isn't really founded. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

21 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

Obama laughably high. They must be giving him credit for the things he wanted to do but failed due to R obstruction shenanigans. And then there's the foreign policy things others have mentioned. 

He and JFK are similar in that they have high ratings on unifying aspirational sort of stuff more than accomplishments.

[956 Worldwide 34444]

7 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

He and JFK are similar in that they have high ratings on unifying aspirational sort of stuff more than accomplishments.

The difference being that Obama had two terms. 
 

I can’t blame Obama for not healing the nation though. A black president isn’t responsible for the world’s worst white people deciding to double down on being assholes just because he won. 

[safe sex 11684]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

read commentary elsewhere that said something about some book coming out about him that makes a good argument that the corruption of his cabinet was just yellow journalism of the time that had been unfairly coloring his reputation and that it isn't really founded. 

Ron Chernow's biography of him is exemplary. He's in my personal top 10 of US presidents because of that book. Basically, most of what you learned about him in elementary school way back when was bullshit

[High Plains Drifter 10978]

30 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Ron Chernow's biography of him is exemplary. He's in my personal top 10 of US presidents because of that book. Basically, most of what you learned about him in elementary school way back when was bullshit

 

You mean he wasn't an alcoholic, wife-beating butcher who was the main architect behind the War of Northern Aggression?

 

[BamaATL 16592]

1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

You mean he wasn't an alcoholic, wife-beating butcher who was the main architect behind the War of Northern Aggression?

 

No that was Gordon LIghtfoot, but the two are frequently confused, very understandable.  

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

Yeah, LBJ used to piss kidney stones bigger than Obama and not bat an eye. 

Move LBJ way up to top 5.

Bunghole.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

What the hell happened for Grant to move up 9 spots?

He's a horseback-breaker.

[pyrohornIII 4809]

And a pretty good documentary hit either Netflix or Prime recently that cast a much better light on Grant.

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

Grant was awesome.  But after reading that biography, I got the sense that he just put his head to the grindstone. 

He was a rare talent at horses.  That's what gave him his break. 

On everything else, he just lowered his head and put in the work.  Not so much genius as just a dedicated student.

[safe sex 11684]

That takes a genius of its own tbh