Alabama, WTF..you dumb mother fuckers

[jdhorn92 1548]

Days after Alabama’s Supreme Court ruling that frozen embryos are children, a second clinic pauses IVF treatment

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/us/alabama-ruling-frozen-embryos-facility-pauses-ivf/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/power/2024/02/21/embryos-alabama-supreme-court-ruling/

As a parent of an IVF child, this is disheartening.  I have 3 teen daughters and it is beyond ridiculous.

At issue is a Mobile, AL hospital was sued when a patient somehow wandered into the lab and destroyed an IVF procedure; the patients sued the hospital for wrongful death and State Supreme court ruled in favor of the plantiff.  Now IVF is haulted statewide.

Edited February 22 by jdhorn92

[Samson's Wig 3192]

Fuck that inbred piece of shit state, Tommy Tubberville, and anyone else associated with it.  The fact Texas is desperately fast-tracking to become Alabama 2.0 is disheartening.

 

 

[Samson's Wig 3192]

I'm also the parent of two IVF children, and the issue of how to handle frozen embryos is definitely a complicated one, with no historical precedent for the legal and moral questions it raises.  I'll share our journey regarding what happened with our frozen embryos someday if anyone is interested, but for now I'll just say this is truly one of the few new things under the sun in a long time when it comes to large moral/ethical questions.

 

Alabama can eat a big bag of southern fried dicks for jumping on this opportunity to simplify it down to something that will appease the unwashed and ignorant masses. 

[jdhorn92 1548]

God forbid my kids encounter the challenges my wife and I did.  IVF is often the only hope for some couples.  Freezing embryos due to illness, necessity or the myriad of other circumstances is a real thing.  If this becomes national, my goodness what a travesty.

2 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

I'm also the parent of two IVF children, and the issue of how to handle frozen embryos is definitely a complicated one, with no historical precedent for the legal and moral questions it raises.  I'll share our journey regarding what happened with our frozen embryos someday if anyone is interested, but for now I'll just say this is truly one of the few new things under the sun in a long time when it comes to large moral/ethical questions.

 

Alabama can eat a big bag of southern fried dicks for jumping on this opportunity to simplify it down to something that will appease the unwashed and ignorant masses. 

Us too, right there with you. IUI for the first, IVF for the 2nd and the third natural, born exactly 53 weeks after #2.  The chemistry was there, the body was accepting and we got lucky/fortunate our third was conceived w/o any help.  I dont know why but this topic just really pissed me off when I saw it on the nightly news last night.  I even called my state rep this morning to make voice my take with her.

At the risk of going CR, Im considering voting Dem for the first time in my life due to women's body issues.  Rant done.

Edited February 22 by jdhorn92

[Captainant 27660]

[Samson's Wig 3192]

Holy shit that's perfect.  Thank you for the laugh.

Edited February 22 by Samson's Wig

[jdhorn92 1548]

TY for the levity @Captainant

[Samson's Wig 3192]

8 minutes ago, jdhorn92 said:

God forbid my kids encounter the challenges my wife and I did.  IVF is often the only hope for some couples.  Freezing embryos due to illness, necessity or the myriad of other circumstances is a real thing.  If this becomes national, my goodness what a travesty.

Us too, right there with you. IUI for the first, IVF for the 2nd and the third natural, born exactly 53 weeks after #2.  The chemistry was there, the body was accepting and we got lucky/fortunate our third was conceived w/o any help.  I dont know why but this topic just really pissed me off when I saw it on the nightly news last night.  I even called my state rep this morning to make voice my take with her.

At the risk of going CR, Im considering voting Dem for the first time in my life due to women's body issues.  Rant done.

I hear you, and it pisses me off too.  This was always going to be the next move following Roe v. Wade being overturned, as it's an easier sell for the mouthbreathers.  Contraception will be next.  I go back and forth between being rallied to fight harder and getting despondent that the nutbags have already managed to take control of the country, and there's no turning back anymore.

[RDCanecutter 26426]

Texas will feel the need to top this. Then Alabama, devilishly creative in rules twisting, will go even farther. Repeat.

[Js1 85320]

1 minute ago, RDCanecutter said:

Texas will feel the need to top this. Then Alabama, devilishly creative in rules twisting, will go even farther. Repeat.

Masturbation is murder.  Just wait. 

[RPM 26319]

Can't we just stone the barren women and be done with the problem? WWJD?

[YGIFS 19450]

Meh, reported for politics!  IVF is a partisan issue!  AHHH!!!!!!

Somebody, possibly Frank Stallone, put it in the head the idea of some leaders/decision makers that stem cells stored from your child's cord blood to help them later in life with medical issues could be used/replicated/stolen for nefarious purposes.  So the possibility of that practice being outlawed is now a possibility in Texas.  So good luck when your kid gets Leukemia.  Frank's gonna burn this whole fucking thing to the ground.

[RDCanecutter 26426]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Masturbation is murder.  Just wait. 

Also, cremation is corpse abuse, meant to prevent them from rising up intact during the Rapture.

Pets are false children and therefore contribute to the non-life of unconceived children by people who dote on their dogs and knit them sweaters.

Hell I oughta run for office.

[Wally Fairway 5547]

29 minutes ago, jdhorn92 said:

Days after Alabama’s Supreme Court ruling that frozen embryos are children, a second clinic pauses IVF treatment

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/us/alabama-ruling-frozen-embryos-facility-pauses-ivf/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/power/2024/02/21/embryos-alabama-supreme-court-ruling/

As a parent of an IVF child, this is disheartening.  I have 3 teen daughters and it is beyond ridiculous.

At issue is a Mobile, AL hospital was sued when a patient somehow wandered into the lab and destroyed an IVF procedure; the patients sued the hospital for wrongful death and State Supreme court ruled in favor of the plantiff.  Now IVF is haulted statewide.

 

6 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

I'm also the parent of two IVF children, and the issue of how to handle frozen embryos is definitely a complicated one, with no historical precedent for the legal and moral questions it raises.  I'll share our journey regarding what happened with our frozen embryos someday if anyone is interested, but for now I'll just say this is truly one of the few new things under the sun in a long time when it comes to large moral/ethical questions.

 

Alabama can eat a big bag of southern fried dicks for jumping on this opportunity to simplify it down to something that will appease the unwashed and ignorant masses. 

I will join the support group - my story is slightly different though, we went through fertility treatment and the long path that it takes you. That path ended with 2 failed IVF procedures, and previously several failed IUI treatments. We had at least 3 IVF specialists that we worked with, and after the last IVF one of the Dr's said that we should consider adoption. That hit us both very hard; but we regrouped. 

Spoiler

Spoilering this post so it doesn't longcat the thread

Long story short - we are adoptive parents to out 2 oldest kids (they are just kids, not adopted kids...but enough on that rant) and then we also were able to have 2 more from our own natural process, which was very unusual. Our 2 middle kids are 6 months apart, as we were 3 months pregnant when our 2nd child was born. 
Obviously there is more to those stories - but to the uninitiated, this ruling in Alabama is fucking wrong, IVF and IUI procedures rely on stimulating a womans ovaries to produce more than 1/ -2 eggs per cycle, those eggs are then harvested and petri-dish inseminated and embryo transfer is a few days later. If all goes well more embryos are harvested than will be implanted (unless you are the Octo-Mom), the rest can be frozen, used for research, donated or destroyed. The Alabama ruling has shut down IVF/IUI because it changes the legality of dealing with science.
I know that it is easy for some people to make a snap judgement about where life starts, but our generation and the science that we live with has made this a much different moral and legal dilemma. I can tell you that there is some real soul searching as you make decisions about how many embryos to implant, what to do with remaining embryo.
We met many people going through this process, through a support group Mrs Fairway found, and we all helped each other with the decisions that are made along the way, the crushing disappointments and the amazing elation when their is success. 
To take this process away from couples who struggle to have children is like finding a reason to stop science and it is a big FU from those who think that what they believe is the only right in the world. Most who have not faced this challenge cannot fathom the depth of the issue, nor do many care. Ironically, many of those who say they want to save the child because every life is precious, are the same people who support the death penalty (or at least that has been my life experience) 
I will get of my high horse and stop preaching now, and sorry to anyone who thought this crossed the CR  line.

 

[jdhorn92 1548]

32 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

 

I will join the support group - my story is slightly different though, we went through fertility treatment and the long path that it takes you. That path ended with 2 failed IVF procedures, and previously several failed IUI treatments. We had at least 3 IVF specialists that we worked with, and after the last IVF one of the Dr's said that we should consider adoption. That hit us both very hard; but we regrouped. 

  Hide contents

Spoilering this post so it doesn't longcat the thread

Long story short - we are adoptive parents to out 2 oldest kids (they are just kids, not adopted kids...but enough on that rant) and then we also were able to have 2 more from our own natural process, which was very unusual. Our 2 middle kids are 6 months apart, as we were 3 months pregnant when our 2nd child was born. 
Obviously there is more to those stories - but to the uninitiated, this ruling in Alabama is fucking wrong, IVF and IUI procedures rely on stimulating a womans ovaries to produce more than 1/ -2 eggs per cycle, those eggs are then harvested and petri-dish inseminated and embryo transfer is a few days later. If all goes well more embryos are harvested than will be implanted (unless you are the Octo-Mom), the rest can be frozen, used for research, donated or destroyed. The Alabama ruling has shut down IVF/IUI because it changes the legality of dealing with science.
I know that it is easy for some people to make a snap judgement about where life starts, but our generation and the science that we live with has made this a much different moral and legal dilemma. I can tell you that there is some real soul searching as you make decisions about how many embryos to implant, what to do with remaining embryo.
We met many people going through this process, through a support group Mrs Fairway found, and we all helped each other with the decisions that are made along the way, the crushing disappointments and the amazing elation when their is success. 
To take this process away from couples who struggle to have children is like finding a reason to stop science and it is a big FU from those who think that what they believe is the only right in the world. Most who have not faced this challenge cannot fathom the depth of the issue, nor do many care. Ironically, many of those who say they want to save the child because every life is precious, are the same people who support the death penalty (or at least that has been my life experience) 
I will get of my high horse and stop preaching now, and sorry to anyone who thought this crossed the CR  line.

 

Thank you for that Wally.   Those of us who have experienced this journey/choice know the path is arduous.  Mrs Jdhorn and I got married later in life and thus started a family later;  for the younger folks here, women often incur a thinning of the lining needed for attachment.  Being in our mid-30's, time was not on our side.   After our first was born in '04 through IUI, we wrestled with IVF.  Our decision really came down to.....50 years from now  will we be able to say to ourselves we exhausted all options of having our own , 2nd child.  IVF is not cheap , you know better than most , and we decided to give it a go.  Fortunately for us it took on the first try and we were blessed with 1 of the 4 placed being born.  IVF rarely works the first time and there is the possibility of the egg splitting, ie octomom.  Our Dr did not believe in reduction, so that is a painful, stressful few weeks.

Ive been doing some additional reading this morning, and it seems likley this may only be a pause.  The State Legislature of AL will be taking up the matter soon and we can only pray more pragmatic laws are enacted, one can only hope.  HTF did someone gain access to that part of the hospital?!

Edited February 22 by jdhorn92

[YGIFS 19450]

So bottom line, population decline is an issue.  Replacement theory is held in high regard by many in the South.  And the grand solution is to make getting pregnant more difficult?  

It is literally impossible some of you are this fucking stupid.  

I guess it's fitting we're joining the SEC.  

[Nicole44 22059]

1 hour ago, jdhorn92 said:

God forbid my kids encounter the challenges my wife and I did.  IVF is often the only hope for some couples.  Freezing embryos due to illness, necessity or the myriad of other circumstances is a real thing.  If this becomes national, my goodness what a travesty.

Us too, right there with you. IUI for the first, IVF for the 2nd and the third natural, born exactly 53 weeks after #2.  The chemistry was there, the body was accepting and we got lucky/fortunate our third was conceived w/o any help.  I dont know why but this topic just really pissed me off when I saw it on the nightly news last night.  I even called my state rep this morning to make voice my take with her.

At the risk of going CR, Im considering voting Dem for the first time in my life due to women's body issues.  Rant done.

It’s insane. I left Republican Party behind a couple of years ago due to this shit being on the horizon and other matters. I am comfortable being an independent. This shit infuriates me. Handmaidens tale shit. As a woman, the lack of understanding of the host of issues we go through during pregnancy is ridiculous. not to mention trying to put this “save the babies” label on absolutely everything related to pregnancy. We have 7 million children involved with CPS and over 400,000 in foster care. But these “children” don’t matter just the ones who haven’t been born yet. Their personhood matters more than anything else. Thats what my former party is telling me. And many of the laws like this being created on the fly are just the tip of the iceberg. They do not care about the problems this creates in the future because they WON the main issue.  They will just start rounding us up when pregnant and putting us in camps. That’s what it fucking feels like at this point and what’s even sadder is they feel they are morally right and have a mandate. 

[texasdago 7573]

Here's what's interesting... this may piss off a ton of people on both sides of the aisle and just gives women another reason to vote blue

[El Tri 412]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Masturbation is murder.  Just wait. 

that would mean punishing men... you know that ain't gonna happen

[Skipper 6135]

IVF parent of 2 here as well.  Extremely long journey for us.   Keeping it on the topic of this ruling, anyone that has been through this (and is a lawyer or can put a lawyer hat on) knew immediately pausing of IVF treatments/facilities was an inevitable outcome.  I haven't had a chance to read up on this in detail yet, but many embryos are not viable and end up discarded for numerous reasons.  Some freeze and do genetic testing to test viability and/or otherwise ensure likelihood of a positive outcome (considering the extreme emotional, physical and financial toll involved with a cycle).  The ruling is insane.  Told my wife this AM the reality is that if it were 10 years ago, we would very likely be considering moving out of Texas to a blue state (trying to keep it non CR but no way around that comment) as you know this shit is probably coming here.  Insanity.

[jimmyjazz 45917]

It's estimated that some 60% of pregnancies don't make it to term.  (It's not an exact number, because this would be difficult to pin down, but that's what I've read.)

So is a miscarriage -- ANY miscarriage, regardless of circumstance -- soon to be manslaughter, murder 2, whatever in red states?

Don't answer that.

[MissingInAction 25065]

Does this mean more butt seks?

[YGIFS 19450]

Yeah, to that point.  I didn't really realize how many pregnancies just sorta self-terminate, for lack of a better term.  Nature kinda knows what to do.  I mean it can end up bad, but usually it works itself out...hence the 8 fucking billion people on this rock right now.  But this is where we are headed.  And no CR because pregnancy is obviously a ballot issue (sarcasm implied).  If you are a white woman, you must carry the baby to term.  All else is commentary.  

My wife and I's first one was tough, but she bounced back well.  The second miscarriage was a kick in the gut.  4-5 months along, then resulting tissue complications from the D&C and had to wait for a couple of years of recovery and trying again.  Plus we were getting into our late 30's.  That the choices we made not that long ago will soon be outlawed by people that have probably endured the same suffering is beyond the pale.  

This is all being done to pander to the lowest common denominator of our citizenry.  And many more women are going to have to physically suffer.  And many more children will be born into suffering.  Because we need a temporary stop-gap to stop the bleeding of a dying train of thought.  Some of you are going to lose loved ones to lack of proper female health care, or not ever know loved ones unborn because of IVF pathway removal.  And I will laugh at your suffering every goddamn day of my life.  Yours is the last gasping breath of a nearly-extinct way of life.

[mchookem 16330]

well. at least this will reduce the number of new Alabamans brought into the world.

[Nicole44 22059]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Masturbation is murder.  Just wait. 

For that matter, any masturbatory emissions, where the sperm is clearly not seeking an egg, could be termed reckless abandonment.

[Da Fino 2781]

Texags weighs in. Horrible people over there that probably say what many of my acquaintances say in private. Really disheartening stuff.

 

 

[speed817 19268]

So what are the embryos gender then???

[MonkeyDoughnut 10234]

nvmd

Edited February 22 by MonkeyDoughnut

[royiv 9303]

51 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

Texags weighs in. Horrible people over there that probably say what many of my acquaintances say in private. Really disheartening stuff.

 

 

There are plenty of posters on here that feel the exact same way. It’s not just Texags. The difference here is that they post on the football board.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

1 hour ago, Da Fino said:

Texags weighs in. Horrible people over there that probably say what many of my acquaintances say in private. Really disheartening stuff.

 

 

I will forever be amazed that a significant number of Longhorn grads will mock every single aspect of aggy, yet decide that political issues are where those goobers have it correct.

[YGIFS 19450]

4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I will forever be amazed that a significant number of Longhorn grads will mock every single aspect of aggy, yet decide that political issues are where those goobers have it correct.

Yeah this.  I've always laughed at them, but it took me until the last few years to realize there's thousands of Longhorn graduates who are totally content to live and behave and civically engage precisely as Aggies to with every bit of delusion and ignorance and then explain it away, "Well, yeah...I'm an insanely cruel dipshit...but I at least I don't wear maroon on Saturdays."  As if that somehow justifies their stupidity.  I mean I'm all for punishing women and children, but I have the decency to do it a smart looking Peter Millar burnt-orange sleeveless vest...we're not savages here. 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

Fuck every state that’s racing to the bottom w this BS.  I would say it’s embarrassing but horrifying is a much better word.  

[hookem2010 2624]

We just got pregnant with our second one, fortunately without the need for IVF. But fuck, if every appointment isn't extra nerve-wracking here in the early going, wondering what will happen if something goes horribly wrong with the fetus or my wife's health? It really sucks having to even entertain the the thought of fleeing the state to avoid needless misery, should the worst come to pass.

[Dahobbs 17534]

4 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

God forbid my kids encounter the challenges my wife and I did.  IVF is often the only hope for some couples.  Freezing embryos due to illness, necessity or the myriad of other circumstances is a real thing.  If this becomes national, my goodness what a travesty.

Us too, right there with you. IUI for the first, IVF for the 2nd and the third natural, born exactly 53 weeks after #2.  The chemistry was there, the body was accepting and we got lucky/fortunate our third was conceived w/o any help.  I dont know why but this topic just really pissed me off when I saw it on the nightly news last night.  I even called my state rep this morning to make voice my take with her.

At the risk of going CR, Im considering voting Dem for the first time in my life due to women's body issues.  Rant done.

3 IVF children here. We tried for years before first doing IUI a few times. First son was born after 1 full IVF cycle failed (I believed we had 2 or 3 implantations the first time). A few years later we did another IVF cycle. Twin girls were born on the second implantation attempt. Even the very best embryos that they use for implantation only have like a 50% chance of taking. Utterly ridiculous and ignorant to treat every fertilized embryo, most of which have a 0.0% of ever developing, as a person.   Handmaid's tale indeed. 

Edited February 22 by Dahobbs

[Js1 85320]

2 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Does this mean more butt seks?

Any sex that does not lead to conception is going to be criminalized. That’s where this is headed. The gays, hetero butt sex. If there’s sperm being ejaculated with no chance of fertilizing an egg, it’s wrong and illegal 

[yoladu 4094]

4 hours ago, Captainant said:

While funny, you know, those frozen embryos are dependent on you and your spouse for their "survival". Those cryo places don't store them for free.

[atomheartbevo 89659]

4 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Also, cremation is corpse abuse, meant to prevent them from rising up intact during the Rapture.

What about a wooden stake through the corpse’s heart and placing a crucifix in the coffin before burying them?

[Chopper 17230]

What's next:

- destruction of an embryo will likely be treated as murder in Alabama.

- the rights of embryos will be extended the same rights as born children in Alabama.

- IVF is legal in Alabama - but only one embryo transfer at a time, no matter the quality of the embryo and every embryo created MUST be transferred.

 

 

 

 

[Wally Fairway 5547]

3 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Does this mean more butt seks?

are you asking because you are a pitcher or a catcher? (nttawwt)

[Nicole44 22059]

11 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

What about a wooden stake through the corpse’s heart and placing a crucifix in the coffin before burying them?

It’s easier just to let them walk into Lady Bird Lake. 

[texasdago 7573]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

It’s easier just to let them walk into Lady Bird Lake. 

"walk"

[Chopper 17230]

10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Any sex that does not lead to conception is going to be criminalized. That’s where this is headed. The gays, hetero butt sex. If there’s sperm being ejaculated with no chance of fertilizing an egg, it’s wrong and illegal 

not a fake

[Wally Fairway 5547]

Just now, Chopper said:

not a fake

note to self - invest in companies that make chastity belts (I mean that is where they are going, right?)

 

[SimonBolivar 10958]

4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

not a fake

Yes Conservatives, lead the way...

[yoladu 4094]

17 minutes ago, Chopper said:

What's next:

- destruction of an embryo will likely be treated as murder in Alabama.

- the rights of embryos will be extended the same rights as born children in Alabama.

- IVF is legal in Alabama - but only one embryo transfer at a time, no matter the quality of the embryo and every embryo created MUST be transferred.

The extraction is a surgical procedure under anesthesia that is not fun. Nor is the 3 weeks of daily injections at home leading up to it. and not mention the physical discomfort of producing multiple eggs

Now, The implantation of the fertilized egg is relatively simple. Take 2 minutes and done (that's what she said).

That is why you extract as many eggs as possible in one procedure. It sucks. No woman wants to go thru that each time for a single egg.

Plus, if the first one(s) don't take, you have frozen backups on the bench ready for a another simple implantation and don't have to go thru the extraction process again.

 

(typing all that out just reinforces the notion that the true intent of these fuckwads is to truly make women suffer)

 

Edited February 22 by yoladu

[Chopper 17230]

1 minute ago, yoladu said:

The extraction is a surgical procedure under anesthesia that is not fun. Nor is the 3 weeks of daily injections at home leading up to it.

Now, The implantation of the fertilized egg is relatively simple. Take 2 minutes and done (that's what she said).

That is why you extract as many eggs as possible in one procedure. It sucks. No woman wants to go thru that each time for a single egg.

Plus, if the first one(s) don't take, you have frozen backups on the bench ready for a another simple implantation and don't have to go thru the extraction process again.

 

(typing all that out just reinforces the notion that the true intent of these fuckwads is to truly make women suffer)

 

Yes lawmakers in Italy tried a similar approach in the early 2000s but repealed it 5 years later because it was cruel and infeasible.

[jimmyjazz 45917]

29 minutes ago, Js1 said:

If there’s sperm being ejaculated with no chance of fertilizing an egg, it’s wrong and illegal 

Good news for all the men who have had vasectomies:  their semen (theoretically) contains no sperm.  

Whew!  Whack away!

[yoladu 4094]

Also, to my recollection.. let's say they extract 15 eggs during the procedure. the doctors attempt to fertilize all 15 eggs, but after the blastocyst period before implantation, some are deemed superior, others not so much. I am not sure what the typical ratio (of good to bad) is or the criteria upon which each fertilized egg is evaluated, but they definitely cull out the bad ones and don't try freeze those.

are discarding the "bad" ones murder too?

[YGIFS 19450]

You know, I've been all around the world twice.  And met everybody once.  Even had a few exotic adventures in the bedroom along the way.  But I have honestly never, ever heard the term "Recreational Sex" until this week.

I mean, is that like oral or vaginal penetration in somebody's Rec Room or Den?  Or like as a cardio workout?  I'm old but I'm still learning.  And we are willing to learn.  Would they send us someplace special, or?  

[Dahobbs 17534]

9 minutes ago, yoladu said:

The extraction is a surgical procedure under anesthesia that is not fun. Nor is the 3 weeks of daily injections at home leading up to it. and not mention the physical discomfort of producing multiple eggs

Now, The implantation of the fertilized egg is relatively simple. Take 2 minutes and done (that's what she said).

That is why you extract as many eggs as possible in one procedure. It sucks. No woman wants to go thru that each time for a single egg.

Plus, if the first one(s) don't take, you have frozen backups on the bench ready for a another simple implantation and don't have to go thru the extraction process again.

 

(typing all that out just reinforces the notion that the true intent of these fuckwads is to truly make women suffer)

 

It is also expensive as shit.