Alabama, WTF..you dumb mother fuckers

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

16 hours ago, Chopper said:

What's next:

 

- the rights of embryos will be extended the same rights as born children in Alabama.

 

 

so the embryos won't get health care, a decent education, or protection from being a victim of a mass shooting?

 

 

[Beau Vine 54319]

21 hours ago, Js1 said:

Masturbation is murder.  Just wait. 

If so, y'all can call me Stalin.

[Beau Vine 54319]

17 hours ago, Js1 said:

Any sex that does not lead to conception is going to be criminalized. That’s where this is headed. The gays, hetero butt sex. If there’s sperm being ejaculated with no chance of fertilizing an egg, it’s wrong and illegal 

 

[tx 3 putt 77235]

31 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Nobody actually believes that frozen embryos are children.

I don't like to get into dissecting people's motives on things.  It's generally counterproductive.  I certainly doesn't address the logical failings of the argument.  But here, it's unavoidable.

Nobody believes that frozen embryos are children, as reflected in the runaway-trolly though experiment I referenced above.  I'm not saying there aren't plenty of people who will say "yeah, I think life begins at conception."  But such people generally haven't thought through the full implications of what that means. 

For those who have thought through the full implications--and that is to say legislators, judges, and other policy-makers and -influencers--they don't actually believe that frozen embryos are children.  And even if they were, they don't actually give two fucks about children, as reflected in the elimination of the summer food program.

This is about controlling women and taking away their bodily autonomy.  That's it.  And anybody who tries to engage these people in any kind of good-faith debate about when life begins is making a mistake.  Because these are not good-faith actors.

making sure the top 5% of whites have access to IVF 

[Pescado_Rojo 19427]

9 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

We have one amazing child through IVF. We were late 30s when we started trying to become parents and had one natural pregnancy that resulted in miscarriage. After about a year of trying, we saw a fertility specialist who recommended skipping straight to IVF due to our age, and we got lucky on the first egg retrieval and implantation cycle and now have a happy and healthy one year old daughter. I know 4 other couples who are at various points in the infertility struggle, some of which are failing IVF, and I feel awful for them.

We also have several embryos frozen that we are unlikely to use because the first childbirth and recovery was physically very difficult for my wife. We don’t have much of an ethical dilemma over that because we don’t consider frozen embryos to be people.

I don’t understand why or how someone could define an embryo as a human being, and assuming most people who take that stance are doing so for religious reasons (radical Christianity), I’m genuinely curious where in the Bible this is even close to being defined? If not the Bible, then how do they arrive at these ideals?

(I realize the definition of when life begins is pivotal to the abortion debate, which I admittedly have mostly ignored until recently, so probably this has been beat to death.)

Also, it would be nearly impossible to argue against IVF without also opposing oral contraception and IUDs. Those methods allow fertilization to occur in vitro, but then prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the endometrium. So I suppose everyone in Alabama is committing murder when they have sex while taking birth control?

It will be interesting to see if this gets adopted in other states. I thought IVF would be untouchable due to the fact that most people on both sides of the political aisle probably have family or friends who have used IVF and witnessed firsthand the joy it brings to the world, but here we are. Everyone who was paranoid about gay marriage, trans rights, and oral contraception was absolutely right to be worried.

Father of IVF twins here. As someone said upthread, I really feel for the couples in the middle of the cycle who were just told they can't continue. The whole process is an ass kicking, from the emotional toll to the physical pain of daily shots, egg extraction, etc. Then to learn it was all for nothing, and you're likely out tens of thousands of dollars? I know of several families that had to scrimp and save, or even borrow money knowing they could only afford one shot at it. This is heartbreaking. 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

 

 

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

Also I know it doesn't surprise anyone this point, but the judge who issued the ruling is a qanon loon.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tom-parker-alabama-ivf-embryo_n_65d7ea34e4b0cc1f2f7b3e26

So yeah a real straight shooter that believes in covid vaccines being mind control, that putin is doing good things in Ukraine, and that satanic pedophiles are stealing blood from and sacrificing children. 

Totally the guy who should be dictating reproductive rights. 

God bless America, we are fucked. 

 

This nut should be in an asylum being forced to take schizophrenic medication, not sitting as a judge. 

 

 

 

[jimmyjazz 46000]

You know, if white conservative America is really that concerned about being replaced you'd think they'd support any efforts to give a reproductive advantage to white Americans over minorities.  IVF almost surely falls under this umbrella, given the fact that it's an expensive process and white American households hold a significant advantage in median household income over Black households ($81K to $54K).  That advantage isn't quite so great over Hispanic Americans (median of $63K), but it's still significant.

Conservatives advocating policy not aligned with their best interests, more at 11.

[DigglerontheHoof 21207]

1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

 

This nut should be in an asylum being forced to take schizophrenic medication, not sitting as a judge. 

 

 

 

I agree, and you could say this about damn near every Republican politician. 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

16 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

The people who want to end ”recreational sex” are not the people having sex for fun.

There are groups who have been working to end access to contraception for a while.  Getting Roe v Wade struck down was a part of their strategy, because it’s tied into the Supreme Court rulings on contraception, gay sex, gay marriage, interracial marriage, etc.  Domino theory - knock one down, the rest will fall.

It’s pretty recent as well 1960s and 1970s   Before that  states could ban contraception.  And yes, there are lawmakers here in Texas who want to get rid of contraception   

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/the-right-to-contraception-state-and-federal-actions-misinformation-and-the-courts/#:~:text=Currently%2C the right to contraception,married people to obtain contraceptives.

“Currently, the right to contraception is protected by two landmark Supreme Court decisions, Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) and Eisenstadt v. Baird (1972). In Griswold, the Court recognized that the constitutional right to privacy encompasses the right of married people to obtain contraceptives. Prior to the Griswold decision, many states outlawed contraceptives, prohibiting clinicians from prescribing, or even discussing, contraceptive methods with their patients. After the Griswold decision, some states continued to have these prohibitions for single people, only allowing married women to obtain contraceptives. These laws spurred the litigation that resulted in the High Court’s decision in Eisenstadt,where the Court extended the constitutional protections of Griswold to unmarried people.”

 

 

The current court will overturn Griswold first chance they get. 

 

[RDCanecutter 26458]

28 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

 

This nut should be in an asylum being forced to take schizophrenic medication, not sitting as a judge. 

 

 

 

I think he's about to hit mandatory retirement age, so we can reasonably assume that he will replaced with someone younger and more reasonable, like an Alabama version of Matt Gaetz.

Seeing how Gaetz comes from the Florida Panhandle that would qualify Matt Gaetz to be the Alabama Matt Gaetz.

['stache 21825]

18 hours ago, Chopper said:

not a fake

I mean, this is it, right? This is where we collectively agree as a country that a far end of the spectrum has gone way off the rails? Like, the overwhelming majority agree that sex can be recreational? You're saying women after 45ish are done ever having sex since they can't have children anymore? It's the end, and we all take a collective sign, reflect, and move back to normalcy, right? Right?

Oh wait, just saw the Texags thread. God fucking damnit, there really is no end to this, I don't see how this country can survive this onslaught of absolute fucking nonsense.

[Dahobbs 17627]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

I don't see how this country can survive this onslaught of absolute fucking nonsense.

I can think of at least one way. 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

8 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I think he's about to hit mandatory retirement age, so we can reasonably assume that he will replaced with someone younger and more reasonable, like an Alabama version of Matt Gaetz.

Seeing how Gaetz comes from the Florida Panhandle that would qualify Matt Gaetz to be the Alabama Matt Gaetz.

 

Are you saying the Florida Panhandle is the Florida of Florida?

 

 

[Brisketexan 105180]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

The current court will overturn Griswold first chance they get. 

 

B-I-N-G-O.

They are coming for birth control.  How do we know?  THEY HAVE TOLD US OVER AND OVER AND OVER THAT THEY ARE.  FUCKING BELIEVE THEM.

30 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I mean, this is it, right? This is where we collectively agree as a country that a far end of the spectrum has gone way off the rails? Like, the overwhelming majority agree that sex can be recreational? You're saying women after 45ish are done ever having sex since they can't have children anymore? It's the end, and we all take a collective sign, reflect, and move back to normalcy, right? Right?

Oh wait, just saw the Texags thread. God fucking damnit, there really is no end to this, I don't see how this country can survive this onslaught of absolute fucking nonsense.

And that's another BINGO.

[Beau Vine 54319]

33 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I mean, this is it, right? This is where we collectively agree as a country that a far end of the spectrum has gone way off the rails?

Butbutbut... gas prices?

[wild_turkey 3171]

 
so the embryos won't get health care, a decent education, or protection from being a victim of a mass shooting?
 
 

If we just had more good embryos with guns, we could stop random people from wandering through IVF clinics and murdering unborn children.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2680]

11 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

Also, it would be nearly impossible to argue against IVF without also opposing oral contraception and IUDs. Those methods allow fertilization to occur in vitro, but then prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the endometrium. So I suppose everyone in Alabama is committing murder when they have sex while taking birth control?

 

A point of clarification: nearly all oral contraception prevents ovulation; it does not allow it and then act to prevent implantation. The exception is the progesterone-only "mini-pill" which is most often taken by women who are breastfeeding, so as to avoid estrogen passing to the baby. It keeps the lining of the uterus thin so as not to allow a fertilized egg to implant. Of course, that distinction is immaterial to those now going after the "the pill" writ large because most don't actually give a shit about whether there's a fertilized egg. They just want to return to the good old days of women lacking control over their fertility and getting punished and stigmatized via pregnancy and forced birth (obviously).

[texastough 1129]

Contrary take (no cr) -- I welcome stuff like this because it keeps fueling the post-Dobbs outrage, important in an election year to g-o-t-v

[jimmyjazz 46000]

22 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

A point of clarification: nearly all oral contraception prevents ovulation; it does not allow it and then act to prevent implantation. The exception is the progesterone-only "mini-pill" which is most often taken by women who are breastfeeding, so as to avoid estrogen passing to the baby. It keeps the lining of the uterus thin so as not to allow a fertilized egg to implant. 

Look at the big brain on @ChuckNorrisActionJeans.

[Homercles 10206]

12 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

2 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

The current court will overturn Griswold first chance they get. 

 

Thomas in Dobbs:

For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell. Because any substantive due process decision is “demonstrably erroneous,” Ramos v. Louisiana, 590 U. S. ___, ___ (2020) (THOMAS, J., concurring in judgment) (slip op., at 7), we have a duty to “correct the error” established in those precedents, Gamble v. United States, 587 U. S. ___, ___ (2019) (THOMAS, J., concurring) (slip op., at 9). After overruling these demonstrably erroneous decisions, the question would remain whether other constitutional provisions guarantee the myriad rights that our substantive due process cases have generated. For example, we could consider whether any of the rights announced in this Court’s substantive due process cases are “privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States” protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. Amdt. 14, §1; see McDonald, 561 U. S., at 806 (opinion of THOMAS, J.). To answer that question, we would need to decide important antecedent questions, including whether the Privileges or Immunities Clause protects any rights that are not enumerated in the Constitution and, if so, how to identify those rights. See id., at 854. That said, even if the Clause does protect unenumerated rights, the Court conclusively demonstrates that abortion is not one of them under any plausible interpretive approach. See ante, at 15, n. 22.

[tx 3 putt 77235]

Thomas wants to burn it all down 

[Brisketexan 105180]

5 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Thomas wants to burn it all down 

And he's not shy about telling you.  He takes an utterly psychopathic (and anti-textualist -- oh, the irony) approach to determining whether rights exist.  Are they enumerated in the Constitution?  If not, then they don't exist.  In other words, the EXACT STUPID AND WRONG interpretation that quite a few founding fathers warned against when the Bill of Rights was proposed.  In short form, they said "okay, but some future dumbass better not read this as an exclusive list of rights that belong to the people, because that's not what it fucking means."  And along comes future dumbass Clarence, who has the fucking gall to declare himself an originalist.  No.  He's just a piece of shit.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

20 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Takes like "if you weren't ready to have ALL of your embryos become babies, then you shouldn't be doing IVF in the first place" make me not ashamed at all when I occasionally check the price of gold to see if it's worth pawning my ring today.

it's like driving a new car off the lot.  that gold lost a lot of value the second it was shaped into an aggie ring.

[4th&Five 41571]

 

[Brisketexan 105180]

2 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Local DAs: no worries, we got this.  LET THE PROSECUTIONS COMMENCE!

Bassackwards states gonna bassackwards state.  Unfortunately, many states are Alabamas-in-waiting, including ours.

Might as well skip to the end and just pass some "Handmaids Tale" laws and quit fucking around with these half-measures.

[wild_turkey 3171]

 

I’m sure those families and doctors are very trusting of their state to do the right thing moving forward.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

Heh. I’m loving the scramble on the R to hide from ruling. 
 

also, surely someone has made this observation: so weird that Thomas didn’t mention loving v Virginia in bad substantive due process cases.  So odd. 

[Brisketexan 105180]

2 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Heh. I’m loving the scramble on the R to hide from ruling. 
 

also, surely someone has made this observation: so weird that Thomas didn’t mention loving v Virginia in bad substantive due process cases.  So odd. 

Yeah, that omission made his shitbaggery particularly funny.  If those cases go, then so must Loving.  I'd love that to go, and for states to pass laws saying they no longer recognize interracial marriages, even existing ones.

[aggie08 21508]

8 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

"Please ignore our chucklefuck justices that you elected because they say 'God' a lot and have an R next to their name, that you dumb shits will continue to re-elect despite them telling you exactly what they'd like to do to your personal freedoms (well, not the only one that you actually care about) for decades now."

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

I mean, this is it, right? This is where we collectively agree as a country that a far end of the spectrum has gone way off the rails? Like, the overwhelming majority agree that sex can be recreational? You're saying women after 45ish are done ever having sex since they can't have children anymore? It's the end, and we all take a collective sign, reflect, and move back to normalcy, right? Right?

Oh wait, just saw the Texags thread. God fucking damnit, there really is no end to this, I don't see how this country can survive this onslaught of absolute fucking nonsense.

Well, it's like this. While some of the Ledge & Lanai dwellers were discussing the GOP plan regarding the systematic erosion of rights for specific demographics, the GOP was engaging in a very flashy campaign against drag queens, CRT, books, and whatnot. That rightfully got a lot of attention because it was a multi-pronged attack against various groups whose rights are endangered but it also deflected from some of the culture that has been hiding in plain sight, so to speak. Twenty (or more) Kids and Counting aired for seven years (but ultimately couldn't survive the Josh scandal); Sister Wives began over a decade ago and is still airing. So, yes, after the reproductive years are completed, women are supposed to continue caregiving for the babies, and step aside for whomever man has chosen as the replacement. Her sex life is done but he's got the little blue pill and God's blessing to continue because..... reasons.

The Civil Rights Act really really got their underwear in a twist, every step forward from that to scratch and claw for equal protections and rights under the law just affirmed their belief that everything wrong with (their) world is due to these "others" not bending to their will (which is interpreted as God's will) and they've been slowly gaining steam. "It's bad when (insert other religion here) do it, but we are a Christian nation and when we do it, it's justified." Like Carville stated, this is a deeply held belief, and yes, the American version of religious extremism is going for broke.

[Captainant 27690]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Like Carville stated, this is a deeply held belief, and yes, the American version of religious extremism is going for broke.

The fascists figured out long ago that if they claim their awful stance is a ""''deeply held religious belief""" that most of society will let them get away with their bigotry. We are in the end stages of that particular fuck fuck game now. 

[jimmyjazz 46000]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, that omission made his shitbaggery particularly funny.  If those cases go, then so must Loving.

If there were ever an "oh my sweet summer child" moment, this is it.

[SydneyCarton 48134]

Another father of an IVF child here. 40% of this fucking country can die in a fucking fire. 

[YGIFS 19452]

So we're all agreed then, the brown eggs can still be mistreated and thrown in the trash bin?  

Wait, we talking about poultry or people?  The South, "Either way..."

[Beau Vine 54319]

Christ, there are more IVT parents than lawyers on Surly!  Who knew?

[tx 3 putt 77235]

39 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And he's not shy about telling you.  He takes an utterly psychopathic (and anti-textualist -- oh, the irony) approach to determining whether rights exist.  Are they enumerated in the Constitution?  If not, then they don't exist.  In other words, the EXACT STUPID AND WRONG interpretation that quite a few founding fathers warned against when the Bill of Rights was proposed.  In short form, they said "okay, but some future dumbass better not read this as an exclusive list of rights that belong to the people, because that's not what it fucking means."  And along comes future dumbass Clarence, who has the fucking gall to declare himself an originalist.  No.  He's just a piece of shit.

he has his, fuck everyone else !

[tx 3 putt 77235]

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Christ, there are more IVT parents than lawyers on Surly!  Who knew?

I’ve met many people from this site, I’m glad most if them are having kids 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

concerning outcome after the 2030 census: a fertility clinic big enough that it has enough embryos that its population gets its own congressman, yet because it is only embryos, no one is old enough to vote. how will they decide

[troph 24893]

15 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

 

Enjoy that while it lasts.

 

[RDCanecutter 26458]

Alabama Republican legislators appearing ready to do back-flips to clean up the fire-hose of shit that Judge Thomas spewed around the room, probably because he thought they believed all the stuff they said. Thing is it may not get resolved until November unless they get a-high-steppin. 

Thomas was tight with Roy Moore who as you may recall was the only man who could have turned Alabama purple... so far. If (when) similar politicians in other states decide to ape this ruling, Thomas could be the gift that keeps on giving to Democrats nation-wide.

This will be in play with the US representative races here for sure-- the new maps with the 2 majority (or almost-majority) Black populations weren't completely out of reach of Republicans, not at all. We shall see.

[RDCanecutter 26458]

5 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Are you saying the Florida Panhandle is the Florida of Florida?

 

 

The Panhandle is that woman who skipped too many classes and tanned too much as a teen, but if you've got a loud pipes save lives motorcycle she'll hang on nice and tight and you're totally gonna score. Just buy her a beer and a slaw dog and wink and call her "Darlin."

[RDCanecutter 26458]

2 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Obedezco pero no cumplo. A prudent choice considering the year-long journey it takes for a galleon to travel from Montgomery to a local IVF clinic and back again.

[RDCanecutter 26458]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

concerning outcome after the 2030 census: a fertility clinic big enough that it has enough embryos that its population gets its own congressman, yet because it is only embryos, no one is old enough to vote. how will they decide

3/5.

[Gatorubet 30274]

9 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

The current court will overturn Griswold first chance they get. 

 

Bowers v Hardwick first, then that. 

[Covri 6250]

On 2/22/2024 at 4:11 PM, YGIFS said:

You know, I've been all around the world twice.  And met everybody once.  Even had a few exotic adventures in the bedroom along the way.  But I have honestly never, ever heard the term "Recreational Sex" until this week.

I mean, is that like oral or vaginal penetration in somebody's Rec Room or Den?  Or like as a cardio workout?  I'm old but I'm still learning.  And we are willing to learn.  Would they send us someplace special, or?  

It’s what happens after the frito pie has been consumed and they keys passed out from the bowl.

[YGIFS 19452]

Oh, so you have hung out with Brisket?

[Brisketexan 105180]

Oh, so you have hung out with Brisket?

Look man, I don’t covet a 1970s sunken living room for nothing, ok?

[Chopper 17242]

17 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Alabama Republican legislators appearing ready to do back-flips to clean up the fire-hose of shit that Judge Thomas spewed around the room, probably because he thought they believed all the stuff they said. Thing is it may not get resolved until November unless they get a-high-steppin. 

Thomas was tight with Roy Moore who as you may recall was the only man who could have turned Alabama purple... so far. If (when) similar politicians in other states decide to ape this ruling, Thomas could be the gift that keeps on giving to Democrats nation-wide.

This will be in play with the US representative races here for sure-- the new maps with the 2 majority (or almost-majority) Black populations weren't completely out of reach of Republicans, not at all. We shall see.

Time to check with in Tommy Tuberville. I'm sure he has a keen sense of the issue.

 

['stache 21825]

20 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Christ, there are more IVT parents than lawyers on Surly!  Who knew?

Based on the number of ED add on sports radio I just assumed that most sports fans have broken dicks.