What is a Christian nationalist?

Brian Fantana · February 26

Dahobbs · February 26

21 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Hold on. The relationships exist. The ideas do not.

Yes, that is what I said (or what I meant to say despite the weird against/exist word replacement).

Bozo_Casanova · February 26

19 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes, that is what I said (or what I meant to say despite the weird against/exist word replacement).

But that’s important here. “Math” is a set of ideas we used to describe a set of naturally occurring relationships. Without people recognizing it, there is no “math” (the ideas) but the relationships described by math exist irrespective of whether people recognize them, as they did prior to people observing those relationships.

Dahobbs · February 26

27 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

But that’s important here. “Math” is a set of ideas we used to describe a set of naturally occurring relationships. Without people recognizing it, there is no “math” (the ideas) but the relationships described by math exist irrespective of whether people recognize them, as they did prior to people observing those relationships.

This seems to be a distinction without a difference in terms of the conversation. The point is that what underpins the "idea" is something objectively real and not dependent upon any sentient being having a conception of them.

956 Worldwide · February 26

I think you and @Dahobbs are talking past each other.

“Math” and “numbers” don’t exist in the sense of an algebra textbook existing, perfect and whole in a temporal or non-temporal realm. But these rules and relationships can be decidedly deduced by how physical objects interact with each other and the rule that governs the interactions exists whether we see it or not. The planets still spin the same way even if we are gone.

And to frame it back on the founders and framers, it is no coincidence that this went hand in hand with the Enlightment scientific study of physics and nature. The physical universe and biology was governed by laws and principles that could be deduced and understood so they figured that human relationships and ethics also could be governed by rationally discovered principles. Which did not mean that people were prohibited from behaving “irrationally” or “unnaturally” (which is not equivalent to sinful in their understanding).

They may have been wrong! This theory isn’t proven and can’t be. But it’s a bit of a smear by both theists and non-theists to call their reasoning “sky-man” dependent. Its getting them wrong in the same way for different ends.

Edited February 26 by 956 Worldwide

WhatTheBuck · February 26

22 hours ago, F250 said:

It's like a freshman year pot smoking session.

2 hours ago, F250 said:

Time to nuke this thread.

@Axiom of Choice come on down.

Yeah, I made that connection too.

Biff Tannen · February 27

4 hours ago, F250 said:

Time to nuke this thread.

@Axiom of Choice come on down.

You suck man

Bullneck · February 27

Stilicho · February 27

6 hours ago, F250 said:

Time to nuke this thread.

@Axiom of Choice come on down.

Jhawkmvp · February 27

On 2/25/2024 at 3:40 AM, Hermanator said:

This reminds me of a day when I was 10 or 11 years old in my Catholic CCD class when I asked why Jesus doesn't seem to give a crap about Kosovo or Bosnia but he's always helping these NFL and NBA players win games.

My dad got a call the next day

Supposedly, if during CCD, you tell the priest to go fuck himself, you will not need to attend CCD class any more. However, your mother might cry a lot, ground you, and tell you that you are going to hell for saying that to a priest.

Blotto · February 27

14 minutes ago, Jhawkmvp said:

Supposedly, if during CCD, you tell the priest to go fuck himself, you will not need to attend CCD class any more. However, your mother might cry a lot, ground you, and tell you that you are going to hell for saying that to a priest.

Ma....it was either me or him!

Hermanator · February 27

1 hour ago, Jhawkmvp said:

Supposedly, if during CCD, you tell the priest to go fuck himself, you will not need to attend CCD class any more. However, your mother might cry a lot, ground you, and tell you that you are going to hell for saying that to a priest.

That's a big risk saying that to a priest at that age. You might end up with your pants around your ankles receiving the holy spirit up the rectory

nbmishoid · February 27

22 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

This seems close:

Math isn't an idea we created. It is a set of relationships that we discovered. Those relationships against irrespective of whether anyone has any idea about them.

This is a Platonist take. The other view is we created it all. The evidence supports the latter. There is no place for these ideas to reside except for brains.

Edited February 27 by nbmishoid
Stuff

Al_4_ISU · February 27

They're people who's Constitutional education skipped the First Amendment and never got past the Second.

MissingInAction · February 27

Getting caught finger banging the preachers daughter at a Jr high lock in will get you kicked out of Baptist youth group with the quickness.

Dahobbs · February 27

29 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

This is a Platonist take. The other view is we created it all. The evidence supports the latter. There is no place for these ideas to reside except for brains.

No, no it isnt. Do you think gravity existed before we thought of the concept? Do you the relationship between a circle's circumference and diameter existed before we termed it pie? Or do you think reality isn't a thing except to extent perceived by a sentient being?

nbmishoid · February 27

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

No, no it isnt. Do you think gravity existed before we thought of the concept? Do you the relationship between a circle's circumference and diameter existed before we termed it pie? Or do you think reality isn't a thing except to extent perceived by a sentient being?

Sure, gravity and the celestial bodies existed. But names, rotation models, and the like ideas, and these ideas didn’t exist absent man. Talking about ideas, man.

DixonHur · February 27

13 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Sure, gravity and the celestial bodies existed. But names, rotation models, and the like ideas, and these ideas didn’t exist absent man. Talking about ideas, man.

How can you say that with any confidence? Do you know how all animals process mathematical relationships?

Just because they don't express them in terms we understand, doesn't mean they don't understand the concepts.

nbmishoid · February 27

Ok, before animals.

David Dennison · February 27

17 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

How can you say that with any confidence? Do you know how all animals process mathematical relationships?

Just because they don't express them in terms we understand, doesn't mean they don't understand the concepts.

Maybe, but probably not.

Dahobbs · February 27

34 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Sure, gravity and the celestial bodies existed. But names, rotation models, and the like ideas, and these ideas didn’t exist absent man. Talking about ideas, man.

The point I was making is that those ideas reference/are derived from some objective point of reference. Mathematics is based upon an observed relationship, not a mere flight of fancy. To those that believe in natural rights, they too have an external reference point.

David Dennison · February 27

nbmishoid · February 27

Well, you’d be surprised about the flight of fancy thing. But I think we’ve mutually clarified. Sure, the world influences our idea making, fundamentally. But not in every case..

Bullneck · March 3

SmokeyTheBear · March 27

https://apnews.com/article/trump-god-bless-usa-bible-greenwood-2713fda3efdfa297d0f024efb1ca3003

Quote

“Happy Holy Week! Let’s Make America Pray Again. As we lead into Good Friday and Easter, I encourage you to get a copy of the God Bless the USA Bible,” Trump wrote, directing his supporters to a website selling the book for $59.99.

TexArcher · March 27

I'm pretty sure this thread title is the answer to the $1,000 question in the Jeopardy category White Racists.

Mrs Whiggins · March 27

Wonder what percentage of this group of supporters can give a clear concise answer to the question: What is the Establishment Clause?

Edited March 27 by Mrs Whiggins

Brisketexan · March 27

Hey Boss Hogg.....to answer your question, this is what Christian Nationalism looks like (really, it's what ANY [fill in religion] nationalism ends up looking like. Because once a religion becomes the actual or de facto "state religion," it's inherent in that process that one of the conclusions will be "and no other religions will be allowed."

This guy has Trump's ear. He has literally met with the guy you support for president:

Stilicho · March 27

Yeah, but this is fine. It's comparing TFG to totalitarian dictators that crosses the line. Or so I learned yesterday in here from another floating username that has been run off multiple times.

SydneyCarton · March 27

1 minute ago, Stilicho said:

Yeah, but this is fine. It's comparing TFG to totalitarian dictators that crosses the line. Or so I learned yesterday in here from another floating username that has been run off multiple times.

Dont forget that Nick Fuentes was a key advisor in the RNC civil war here in Texas after the Paxton indictment, and Tim Dunn had to start a new super pac after it got out Fuentes was advising the Texas GOP.

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/10/23/defend-texas-liberty-nick-fuentes-jonathan-stickland/

Boss Hogg · March 27

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Hey Boss Hogg.....to answer your question, this is what Christian Nationalism looks like (really, it's what ANY [fill in religion] nationalism ends up looking like. Because once a religion becomes the actual or de facto "state religion," it's inherent in that process that one of the conclusions will be "and no other religions will be allowed."

This guy has Trump's ear. He has literally met with the guy you support for president:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say non-Christians will not be executed if Trump wins the election. Aren't his kids Jewish?

Also, I thought it's pretty clear that he's no ardent Christian. Everyone here thinks he's playing the wannabe Christofasconationalists for rubes right?

DigglerontheHoof · March 27

5 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say non-Christians will not be executed if Trump wins the election. Aren't his kids Jewish?

Also, I thought it's pretty clear that he's no ardent Christian. Everyone here thinks he's playing the wannabe Christofasconationalists for rubes right?

I bet a lot of Jews said the same thing in the lead-up to the 1932 German national elections.

Edited March 27 by DigglerontheHoof

Brisketexan · March 27

6 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say non-Christians will not be executed if Trump wins the election. Aren't his kids Jewish?

Also, I thought it's pretty clear that he's no ardent Christian. Everyone here thinks he's playing the wannabe Christofasconationalists for rubes right?

He literally came to Texas to advise Texas Republicans on electoral and political strategy. The wannabes ARE rubes....but rubes actually do shit and expect what they are promised.

Sorry, dude -- you don't get to ask about Christian Nationalists and then say "well, we can't consider what that avowed Christian Nationalist says in crafting our definition."

For fuck's sake, banners of Christian Nationalism were carried onto the Senate floor on January 6th by people who vowed to put a stop to Congress doing its job, and who actually recited a motherfucking christian nationalist victory prayer on the senate floor declaring their victory:

Quote

That Christian flag was carried into battle against America-carried alongside the Confederate flag. It was carried against the police officers protecting the beating heart of our democracy. The terrorists didn't just parade the flag on the battle lines opposite Hodges, they carried that Christian flag onto the floor of the United States Senate. They attacked, they conquered, they paraded their flag on vanquished ground ... and then they said a prayer to Jesus in that Senate.

"Thank you for allowing the United States of America to be reborn. Thank you for allowing us to get rid of the communists, the globalists, and the traitors within our government. We love you and we thank you. In Christ's holy name we pray. Amen.''

Christian Nationalist are motherfucking jihadi terrorists. That's what Christian Nationalism is. THAT'S WHAT IT FUCKING SAYS IT IS, IN PLAIN LANGUAGE. If you intend to use the force of the state to subject me to your God, that's fucking jihad. You're no better than Bin Laden.

Edited March 27 by Brisketexan

Blotto · March 27

6 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say non-Christians will not be executed if Trump wins the election. Aren't his kids Jewish?

Also, I thought it's pretty clear that he's no ardent Christian. Everyone here thinks he's playing the wannabe Christofasconationalists for rubes right?

Trump has no moral bearing other than the church of Trump. He might have all non-Christians executed if the price was right. Shit, he might have all Christians executed if the price was right. The president (or president wanna be) of the United States has absolutely no fucking business meeting with and lending credence to crackpots like Fuentes. The fact that you just shrug off Trumps ties to elements like this tells me you are proper fucked in the head.

mr.goodkat · March 27

10 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say non-Christians will not be executed if Trump wins the election. Aren't his kids Jewish?

Also, I thought it's pretty clear that he's no ardent Christian. Everyone here thinks he's playing the wannabe Christofasconationalists for rubes right?

do you think he will really know where to draw the line ? cuz i don't

Neonmoon · March 27

He’s not going to direct his followers to attack the capital or kill anyone. He’s just kidding, jeez you dummies.

Boss Hogg · March 27

Who’s going to carry out all these targeted killings? All the hard core right wingers in the military or the 3 letter agencies? Rrrrrright. They're too busy doing as they've been directed, addressing the “single most dangerous terrorist threat in our homeland”. White supremacy.

Newsflash. We've already had a Trump presidency. He was effectively neutered by the vast bureaucracy and legislative branches opposing him. This is all a lot of fear mongering. Which I get. Both sides do it. Fear gets the votes out.

Left-democracy under attack, climate change, abortion

Right-DEI, immigration, communists, culture war

Now on the state level, you have a better argument because of our federalist system. For better or worse balkanization will continue.

But there won't be many partisan directives coming from the right from the executive branch or agencies. That comes almost exclusively from the left. At least until the whole Chevron deference thing gets overturned. That will be nice.

safe sex · March 27

Go fuck yourself

Pato del Muerto · March 27

How is abortion talk fearmongering? They’ve repealed the federal protection, have many states with laws against it and more working to get such laws on the books, and have said their goal is a federal ban. (Which would never be voted into law if there was a nationwide vote, but that won’t stop them if they get the votes in the legislature and have a POTUS that won’t veto it. )

Bozo_Casanova · March 27

38 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Who’s going to carry out all these targeted killings? All the hard core right wingers in the military or the 3 letter agencies? Rrrrrright. They're too busy doing as they've been directed, addressing the “single most dangerous terrorist threat in our homeland”. White supremacy.

Newsflash. We've already had a Trump presidency. He was effectively neutered by the vast bureaucracy and legislative branches opposing him. This is all a lot of fear mongering. Which I get. Both sides do it. Fear gets the votes out.

Left-democracy under attack, climate change, abortion

Right-DEI, immigration, communists, culture war

Now on the state level, you have a better argument because of our federalist system. For better or worse balkanization will continue.

But there won't be many partisan directives coming from the right from the executive branch or agencies. That comes almost exclusively from the left. At least until the whole Chevron deference thing gets overturned. That will be nice.

Did you drive a cybertruck by the Mueller farmers market a few weeks ago?

Biff Tannen · March 27

55 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Left-democracy under attack, climate change, abortion

Right-DEI, immigration, communists, culture war

One of these is reality. One of them is not.

Brisketexan · March 27

1 hour ago, Boss Hogg said:

Newsflash. We've already had a Trump presidency. He was effectively neutered by the vast bureaucracy and legislative branches opposing him. This is all a lot of fear mongering. Which I get. Both sides do it. Fear gets the votes out.

"Newsflash - Hitler already tried his bullshit. He got shut down and sent to prison. The government handled him just fine. Warning that he's coming back, and will seize complete power and implement the exact vengeful and brutal agenda he's been promising is just fear-mongering."

Read. The fucking. Playbook. You fucking asshole. Fascism doesn't get it done on the first try. It probes, it fails. Then, it comes back....wins....and does EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS IT WANTS TO DO. LISTEN TO WHAT TRUMP AND HIS LACKEYS SAY THEY WANT TO DO. THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL DO.

Fucking assholes like you are EXACTLY how the world ended up with murderous fascism last century. But you seem to think that EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME won't happen this time, for....reasons. Mostly the reason of "because I want to keep voting for the fascists, so I need to rationalize it away." Sorry, fucker. You vote for people who say "hey, we definitely intend to do nazi shit," then you're a fucking nazi.

Sawbonz · March 27

Why hasn’t gru horn been crowdsourced yet?

Celery Man · March 27

There’s that rube talk we were talking about

Longhorn_Fan68 · March 27

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why hasn’t gru horn been crowdsourced yet?

this site loves it some repeat offenders, apparently

Sawbonz · March 27

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

this site loves it some repeat offenders, apparently

Sbbruin · March 28

11 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-god-bless-usa-bible-greenwood-2713fda3efdfa297d0f024efb1ca3003

"My favorite book!"

Sawbonz · March 28

47 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"Newsflash - Hitler already tried his bullshit. He got shut down and sent to prison. The government handled him just fine. Warning that he's coming back, and will seize complete power and implement the exact vengeful and brutal agenda he's been promising is just fear-mongering."

Read. The fucking. Playbook. You fucking asshole. Fascism doesn't get it done on the first try. It probes, it fails. Then, it comes back....wins....and does EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS IT WANTS TO DO. LISTEN TO WHAT TRUMP AND HIS LACKEYS SAY THEY WANT TO DO. THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL DO.

Fucking assholes like you are EXACTLY how the world ended up with murderous fascism last century. But you seem to think that EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME won't happen this time, for....reasons. Mostly the reason of "because I want to keep voting for the fascists, so I need to rationalize it away." Sorry, fucker. You vote for people who say "hey, we definitely intend to do nazi shit," then you're a fucking nazi.

Everyone knows that Christian Nationalism is perfectly distilled to its essence in that insane diatribe by Nick Fuentes linked upthread

But what Immaculate Hogg presupposes is…maybe it isn’t?

Biff Tannen · March 28

27 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

There’s that rube talk we were talking about

Oh man I’m going to start using this.

safe sex · March 28

5 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Why hasn’t gru horn been crowdsourced yet?

Fuckin' a

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