Millennials want to retire by 61, but most have nothing saved

[Lhorn 4909]

7 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:

Bullshit!


You weren’t 52 in 1997

I think he meant to say he was 97 in 1952. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Lhorn

[Anastasis 23458]

13 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Just to follow up on the thing about the recession - there was an interesting article a while back that showed the gap between people who graduated in 2009ish and those who graduated a few years later.  Employers didn't come back and scoop up the grads they weren't hiring when the economy came back, they scooped up new grads.

Those grads probably had a very broadly available skill set.  The only reason anybody should spend money required to obtain a college degree is a technical degree. Otherwise you should be looking at trades. That is honest truth. Shit.  I would wager that I spent more time on the 40 than 99% of other posters here, and the gods to honest truth is that I would have probably been better off, at least from a financial perspective, apprenticing with an electrician with an endgame of opening up my own shop. It would have probably been more rote and boring, but in the end the better play. 

[Celery Man 20931]

39 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Those grads probably had a very broadly available skill set.  The only reason anybody should spend money required to obtain a college degree is a technical degree. Otherwise you should be looking at trades. That is honest truth. Shit.  I would wager that I spent more time on the 40 than 99% of other posters here, and the gods to honest truth is that I would have probably been better off, at least from a financial perspective, apprenticing with an electrician with an endgame of opening up my own shop. It would have probably been more rote and boring, but in the end the better play. 

That's cool, I get it.  I have a bachelor's degree in History and I'm software engineering manager.  I don't really care about specific crybabies who went off and got a phd in gender studies or shit history and can't figure out a way to hack it.  But if we're going to talk about generational stuff, and we're looking at a generation who was raised on "go to college no matter what and then you will achieve your dreams", and then they come out to no jobs and a fucking mountain of debt that they can't bankrupt out of and the boomers are going to eat through all of the social security and are pointing at them saying "shoulda been a plumber what were you thinking lol", that's a fucking raw deal.  Generationally.  The goal should be that average people making average choices with average talent can have pretty nice average middle class lives.

[Brew 3049]

8 hours ago, DanRydell said:

 

There are different repayment options.

There’s the standard 10-year payment schedule. That wasn’t gonna work because the monthly payment exceeded my post-tax income my first few years out.

So I instead did an income-contingent plan. The gist of which is that you pay 15% of your income above the poverty line. It has to be renewed every 12 months and payments are re-calculated based on your most recent income tax filing.

At this point, I’m making enough where I could stretch myself a bit to revert to the standard plan (at $2100/mo for the next 10 years) but I think that would ultimately cost me more than to just ride out the income-contingent plan for the next 16 years (payment is $600/mo at the moment).

 

Explain the rationale to me behind expensive degree, shit income potential. I don’t understand the maths behind how this seems like a good idea.

I know pricing has changed substantially over the years, but I walked out of college in 1999 with a degree and a Masters degree for about $20k in loan debt. I started out at $27k and the numbers worked fine. I start people today in the same position at $42k, but even with school inflation cost I wouldn’t be $200k in the hole. 

People have to get smarter about their college spending. I had a guy that worked for me that had $150k+ in student loan debt and he made the same thing as the guys going to the state school for less than 1/3 of that. It just makes no sense. It was a constant issue with him until he finally left 

I’ve got a ‘78 birthday so I guess I fall on the generation border. I may retire by 61 but who knows at this point. The more likely scenario is I keep running hard for about 5 more years and then start spending part of the year at the beach house and working remotely well past that 61 number. The thought of walking from what I make is a hard one after fighting to get to where I am. One advantage is that the millenials aren’t interested in getting to the top of the ladder. A few rungs up is good enough for them.

[Spankytoes 1739]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

 

So millennial are the new baby boomers. Does Gen X have to do fucking everything in here?!?!?

 

Father at 19, married at 20, mortgage at 22, 6 years of schooling and graduated with no student debt. (Partial scholarships, grants, parents, and self-paying between University and Community College) Got myself into serious financial trouble with credit cards and didn’t wise up with debt until I was about 27. Realized I wasn’t going to live forever at 30 and started a 401K, right before the economic crisis of 2008, which sucked. Last 5 years has been an average of 11.78% ROI, but it’s been shitty as of late. Provided that I can maintain an average of 6% or above, I can retire at 61, assuming that I don’t live past 92. If I can push it a few more years, I can retire very comfortably. Social Security would just be gravy, and I damn sure would claim it.

Both our cars are 6+ years old and are paid off. We do own 2 houses, but they are both modest. (Our Texas House is the de facto  “dorm” for our college kids) We clip coupons, shop at the Dollar Store, steal housekeeping items from our business travel hotels for personal use, obviously take great vacations for cheap on miles/points, cut the cord for TV, have a T-Mobile family plan for $100 and wait to stream movies rather than see them in the theater. Both my wife and I make commensurate salaries north of six figures.

Why? Because I want to retire at 60 instead.

Fuck the Boomers.

[DanRydell 799]

Explain the rationale to me behind expensive degree, shit income potential. I don’t understand the maths behind how this seems like a good idea.
I know pricing has changed substantially over the years, but I walked out of college in 1999 with a degree and a Masters degree for about $20k in loan debt. I started out at $27k and the numbers worked fine. I start people today in the same position at $42k, but even with school inflation cost I wouldn’t be $200k in the hole. 
People have to get smarter about their college spending. I had a guy that worked for me that had $150k+ in student loan debt and he made the same thing as the guys going to the state school for less than 1/3 of that. It just makes no sense. It was a constant issue with him until he finally left 
I’ve got a ‘78 birthday so I guess I fall on the generation border. I may retire by 61 but who knows at this point. The more likely scenario is I keep running hard for about 5 more years and then start spending part of the year at the beach house and working remotely well past that 61 number. The thought of walking from what I make is a hard one after fighting to get to where I am. One advantage is that the millenials aren’t interested in getting to the top of the ladder. A few rungs up is good enough for them.

Four years of undergrad plus a 2-year masters at UT would set you back $100k now. So based on your numbers, the cost of the degree has increased 400% while the starting compensation has only increased 56%.

Your salary in your first year was more than your educational cost. If your employee starting at $42k with his $100k degree received a 5% raise every single year, he would finally have an annual salary exceeding his degree cost in year 19. Even with a 10% annual raise, it’d be year 11.

[Spankytoes 1739]

Regarding Millennials:

I’ve had my first dose in the job market when I semi-hired an assistant that graduated with a degree in Sociology in May. She had been working as a temp the past few summers and I thought that she’d be great for a specific area that I needed assistance with so I could focus more on the big picture. The problem is that this particular function is not constant as our busy times are seasonal. So the only way to make employment viable is to have her continue doing the functions that she was doing as a temp and then shifting her focus as needed. Otherwise, we’d be paying her to sit around a lot or would only be able to offer her PT employment, which is a non-starter for her. On her first week, I took her with me to Houston, Dallas and Boston for projects. She was completely enamored, and a little annoying, about how cool it was to travel and stay in Hotel suites. (Think “Up in the Air”) We did a few more out-of-area projects together and fit some training time in to fill in the gaps. Then my projects started shifting locally. So she was regulated to going back to her former temp duties in preparation. That’s when things started to fall apart a bit. The other workers would stay at the office until 9 PM or 10 PM to get things done and she would leave at 5 PM on the dot. Then she started trying to spread her wings too fast by instructing people that have been doing this work for 15+ years on procedure. It got to the point where I had to speak with her about tempering her enthusiasm as I was already getting a little heat about having her “rise to the top” so quickly from the other temp workers. As I suspected, she felt that the “grunt work” was beneath her now because she had a college degree. Then she went on to ask me to map out a timeline of what she can reasonably expect in the way of getting a title, salary increases and an office. She started at the end of May and I took a vacation June 29 - July 15. I thought she was joking. I was wrong.

Sadly, I think we created a golem as a society with their generation. When you don’t keep score in sports, kids don’t know how the agony of defeat feels, which deprives them of a competitive nature. When you try to protect their feelings from bullying so much they don’t know how to react when someone doesn’t tell them just how perfect and special they are. They never had to be self reliant because they always had a GPS, literally, to get them back on the right track. The real world is going to kick the living shit out of them. 

 

[52-80 19145]

11 hours ago, Armybrat said:

I retired at 52 in 1997, the wife at 59.

Due to health issues, didn't think I'd get to enjoy it this long. But hey, just shoot me. 

For how much?  I need to pad the IRA

[52-80 19145]

BTW yall see that Brandeis charges 55k a year on tuition alone?  I know their parents are wealthy Hebrews and they get Levantine scholarships but holy schnike

[Fudge Nuggets 19187]

15 hours ago, DanRydell said:

Despite 9 years of monthly payments, my students loan balance is almost 50% larger today then it was when I graduated. So yeah, can’t say I’m putting away much for retirement.

Did you get your student loan from a bunch of goombahs down a dark alley?

[Fudge Nuggets 19187]

7 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Just to follow up on the thing about the recession - there was an interesting article a while back that showed the gap between people who graduated in 2009ish and those who graduated a few years later.  Employers didn't come back and scoop up the grads they weren't hiring when the economy came back, they scooped up new grads.

So that explains what happened to two years of a data set encompassing 19 years.

Granted this latest recession was a doozy of all doozies, but there have been other recessions in the past and people graduated from college then too.  I graduated during the early 1990's recession which put me in a bind for a year, but everything worked out fine after that.

[Fudge Nuggets 19187]

7 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

 

So millennial are the new baby boomers. Does Gen X have to do fucking everything in here?!?!?

 

Thing is, we are a comparably small portion of the population so if we can just hang on until the boomers finally die we should be ok.  The millenials will paying into SS, but even though they make fuck all in salary there are a lot more of them to tote the note for us.

[Dahobbs 17522]

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

So that explains what happened to two years of a data set encompassing 19 years.

Granted this latest recession was a doozy of all doozies, but there have been other recessions in the past and people graduated from college then too.  I graduated during the early 1990's recession which put me in a bind for a year, but everything worked out fine after that.

Jesus, it isn't that hard. Look at the data set for millennials. You have a huge percentage that haven't even started working yet. Another large group that are barely in the work force. And the group that has actually been working for awhile had the brakes slammed on them for the first part of their working life, delaying any ability to accumulate wealth.

But, if you read the report, you will see that millennials are actually still saving the same percentage as gen x. But unfortunately milllennials make less, have higher costs of living, and will live longer--so the same percentage saving as gen x does not cut it.

Oh, I will also add that acting like the recession only affected two years is asinine. The economy and job market were on life support for several years after. So no, it was not 2 years, more like 5 until things started to actually get better. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Dahobbs

[CooterBrown 18002]

What shocks me is how little a lot of employers match in 401Ks nowadays.  I've worked for 8 companies. Every one of them matched 6% and my current one matches 6% plus another company contribution that doesn't require an employee contribution that is another 4-11% each year. So my employer contribution is 10-17% each year.  I know so many people working for pretty decent sized, established companies with a 0 - 3% match and an insane vesting schedule.  It'll be interesting to see what happens to all these folks who are going to really have a shitty retirement account even though they may be saving 10-15% annually. 

[Armybrat 40822]

9 hours ago, Celery Man said:

That's cool, I get it.  I have a bachelor's degree in History and I'm software engineering manager.  I don't really care about specific crybabies who went off and got a phd in gender studies or shit history and can't figure out a way to hack it.  But if we're going to talk about generational stuff, and we're looking at a generation who was raised on "go to college no matter what and then you will achieve your dreams", and then they come out to no jobs and a fucking mountain of debt that they can't bankrupt out of and the boomers are going to eat through all of the social security and are pointing at them saying "shoulda been a plumber what were you thinking lol", that's a fucking raw deal.  Generationally.  The goal should be that average people making average choices with average talent can have pretty nice average middle class lives.

Or - one could become a college football coach with a funny good ol' boy name and pull down serious coin from a bunch of cultish suckers.

[Spankytoes 1739]

2 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

What shocks me is how little a lot of employers match in 401Ks nowadays.  I've worked for 8 companies. Every one of them matched 6% and my current one matches 6% plus another company contribution that doesn't require an employee contribution that is another 4-11% each year. So my employer contribution is 10-17% each year.  I know so many people working for pretty decent sized, established companies with a 0 - 3% match and an insane vesting schedule.  It'll be interesting to see what happens to all these folks who are going to really have a shitty retirement account even though they may be saving 10-15% annually. 

Gotdamn, are y'all hiring? 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

9 hours ago, Brew said:

Explain the rationale to me behind expensive degree, shit income potential. I don’t understand the maths behind how this seems like a good idea.

All the cool kids were doing it?

[TwiceHorn 31438]

9 hours ago, Celery Man said:

That's cool, I get it.  I have a bachelor's degree in History and I'm software engineering manager.  I don't really care about specific crybabies who went off and got a phd in gender studies or shit history and can't figure out a way to hack it.  But if we're going to talk about generational stuff, and we're looking at a generation who was raised on "go to college no matter what and then you will achieve your dreams", and then they come out to no jobs and a fucking mountain of debt that they can't bankrupt out of and the boomers are going to eat through all of the social security and are pointing at them saying "shoulda been a plumber what were you thinking lol", that's a fucking raw deal.  Generationally.  The goal should be that average people making average choices with average talent can have pretty nice average middle class lives.

I gathered.  BA in history, stint as professional musician, now software engineering manager.  You are a peripatetic dude, a polymath.  I mean that in a very complimentary way.

 

I think that speaks to a versatility and adaptablity that not a lot of folks possess.  I'd be interested in hearing the whole story.

 

At one time, I think the only people that went to college were those "predestined" for career success by either native intelligence  or family wealth/connections.  For those people, in many cases, degree didn't matter.  Unfortunately, for those less "privileged," the notion has persisted that degree doesn't matter and we have a lot of people shelling out big bucks or going deep into debt for something that isn't worth the candle, except perhaps in some highly philosophical sense.

 

Whether its trade school or STEM or some other professional degree, I think we need to force young folks and their parents into more serious thinking about the cost-benefit value proposition of college.  It's unfortunate that 18 year olds have to make these decisions and their parents often aren't a lot better equipped.

Edited July 19, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31438]

14 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

What shocks me is how little a lot of employers match in 401Ks nowadays.  I've worked for 8 companies. Every one of them matched 6% and my current one matches 6% plus another company contribution that doesn't require an employee contribution that is another 4-11% each year. So my employer contribution is 10-17% each year.  I know so many people working for pretty decent sized, established companies with a 0 - 3% match and an insane vesting schedule.  It'll be interesting to see what happens to all these folks who are going to really have a shitty retirement account even though they may be saving 10-15% annually. 

French benefits are completely disappearing.  My Dad had health insurance that covered him and my Mom as a Medicare/drug supplement that cost like $5/month for him and another $200 or so for my Mom.  They had negligible health care costs in retirement, both as a result of being pretty healthy and having very complete coverage.  I don't think that happens anymore.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

24 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Jesus, it isn't that hard. Look at the data set for millennials. You have a huge percentage that haven't even started working yet. Another large group that are barely in the work force. And the group that has actually been working for awhile had the brakes slammed on them for the first part of their working life, delaying any ability to accumulate wealth.

But, if you read the report, you will see that millennials are actually still saving the same percentage as gen x. But unfortunately milllennials make less, have higher costs of living, and will live longer--so the same percentage saving as gen x does not cut it.

Oh, I will also add that acting like the recession only affected two years is asinine. The economy and job market were on life support for several years after. So no, it was not 2 years, more like 5 until things started to actually get better. 

Of course, the recession didn't just affect fresh graduates.  A lot of us get off my lawn types had employment setbacks and havoc in our retirement/savings accounts.  And the cost of living has risen for everyone.

Granted, I think it's probably tougher to get a job in the post-recession environment, so there is that.  And the student debt level is absurd.

I see frequent reports that millenials have a "work to live" attitude and that's overall pretty healthy for the long term.  But I think it's probably better to come at early employment with a "live to work" attitude and come to the former attitude over time, from a financial/retirement standpoint.

[Brew 3049]

8 hours ago, DanRydell said:

 

Four years of undergrad plus a 2-year masters at UT would set you back $100k now. So based on your numbers, the cost of the degree has increased 400% while the starting compensation has only increased 56%.

Your salary in your first year was more than your educational cost. If your employee starting at $42k with his $100k degree received a 5% raise every single year, he would finally have an annual salary exceeding his degree cost in year 19. Even with a 10% annual raise, it’d be year 11.

 

Annual salary doesn’t have to exceed the degree cost for it to be a good investment, but the income potential should. Spending $100k for a degree to be a math teacher probably isn’t a great investment. Spending $100k to be an accountant, engineer, etc is a better investment but still may not be smart. I went to a cheap school because I knew I wasn’t going big city, Big 4 and the three initials after my name on my business card carried more weight than the name on my diploma at that point.

i have a buddy that works for a large financial company as an analyst. He racked up a quarter million in student loan debt living off of it and spending an extra couple years having fun in college. It makes zero sense even though he does have a solid income potential. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

2 minutes ago, thestud said:

 

 

In the last 5 years my deductible has tripled, the number of “in network” pharmacies and doctors have shrunk drastically, and then my employer gave us 90 days notice that when open enrollment is upon us our spouses will be kicked off our insurance if their employer also offers them health insurance. Yay

 

 

Rant:

This is all because of the Shitty American Short Term Syndrome (SASTS). We must be profitable in the next quarter or Wall Street slams our stock price and the Execs don't get their sweet, sweet stock options. Fuck the employees. I got mine, let them get theirs. This is why (long term) China will kick our asses. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 minute ago, Brew said:

 three initials after my name on my business card carried more weight than the name on my diploma at that point.. 

ASS?

[Spaulding Smails 1552]

After thinking about this since yesterday, the one change in my stance is on the accumulation of student debt.  If I knew my degree course and ultimate career was something I loved doing but was going to produce an income at a level that wouldn't enable me to pay for my student loans, why not slow down your degree plan, go to community college where possible, work nights, etc to minimize the debt?  I had a full academic scholarship to UT.  My parents said, "Great!  That means we don't have to pay for shit!"  Full scholarship meant tuition, room & board and sometimes books.  I worked part-time every fall/spring semester and full-time every summer.  I had no interest in accumulating even a penny of student debt.  How many of these recent grads with huge debt loads worked while in school?  

I'm a big fan of controlling what you can control.  You can't control life expectancy, inflation or wage stagnation and you can kind of control healthcare costs but you can 100% control the debt portion of that equation.  

Edited July 19, 2018 by Spaulding Smails

[Brew 3049]

^^^this. I see very few new hires with any real work experience. I’ve hired several lately where we are their first job. They aren’t very good hires.

[Spaulding Smails 1552]

10 hours ago, Brew said:

Explain the rationale to me behind expensive degree, shit income potential. I don’t understand the maths behind how this seems like a good idea.

I know pricing has changed substantially over the years, but I walked out of college in 1999 with a degree and a Masters degree for about $20k in loan debt. I started out at $27k and the numbers worked fine. I start people today in the same position at $42k, but even with school inflation cost I wouldn’t be $200k in the hole. 

People have to get smarter about their college spending. I had a guy that worked for me that had $150k+ in student loan debt and he made the same thing as the guys going to the state school for less than 1/3 of that. It just makes no sense. It was a constant issue with him until he finally left 

I’ve got a ‘78 birthday so I guess I fall on the generation border. I may retire by 61 but who knows at this point. The more likely scenario is I keep running hard for about 5 more years and then start spending part of the year at the beach house and working remotely well past that 61 number. The thought of walking from what I make is a hard one after fighting to get to where I am. One advantage is that the millenials aren’t interested in getting to the top of the ladder. A few rungs up is good enough for them.

Like minds, bro.  I'm two years younger than you and of the exact same thought process.  10-12 more years of grinding, try to get kids through college so they don't have to think about loans, then start to slow it down, spend more time at the ranch and maybe travel some.  But, I don't see myself ever retiring.  At least not anywhere near 61.  I'd rather scale back my work load, make less money, but stay engaged in the workforce and keep income flowing in.  The one thing that I've learned about myself (and my wife) is that we tend to spend more when we're not working.  Working would allow me to make more and theoretically spend less.

[Brew 3049]

32 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Of course, the recession didn't just affect fresh graduates.  A lot of us get off my lawn types had employment setbacks and havoc in our retirement/savings accounts.  And the cost of living has risen for everyone.

Granted, I think it's probably tougher to get a job in the post-recession environment, so there is that.  And the student debt level is absurd.

I see frequent reports that millenials have a "work to live" attitude and that's overall pretty healthy for the long term.  But I think it's probably better to come at early employment with a "live to work" attitude and come to the former attitude over time, from a financial/retirement standpoint.

I was in a meeting last week with other managing partners in my industry from across the country. One of the topics was whether we should be sharing partner comp with younger staff so they knew what the future looked like to get them invested earlier. The ones that had shared it all said that they had a lot of kickback from the millenials on the income numbers being exorbitant and sometimes offensive. They were more comfortable with a future making $80k than one that involved making 5-10 times that. There has been a shift with the next group coming out of school but there is still a 15 year group with a different mindset.

[52-80 19145]

18 minutes ago, Brew said:

Annual salary doesn’t have to exceed the degree cost for it to be a good investment, but the income potential should. Spending $100k for a degree to be a math teacher probably isn’t a great investment. Spending $100k to be an accountant, engineer, etc is a better investment but still may not be smart. I went to a cheap school because I knew I wasn’t going big city, Big 4 and the three initials after my name on my business card carried more weight than the name on my diploma at that point.

i have a buddy that works for a large financial company as an analyst. He racked up a quarter million in student loan debt living off of it and spending an extra couple years having fun in college. It makes zero sense even though he does have a solid income potential. 

i dont need no fancy degree to become an instagram videoblogger.

[Spaulding Smails 1552]

On the retirement front, I've seen five different people retire recently that have affected my perception of what it means to retire and my desire to do so.

1) My dad.  Retired five years ago at 58.  Completely right decision for him.  He would've keeled over from a heart attack if he didn't go cold turkey.  He's doing the things he loves now and didn't give a shit about leaving business / business relationships behind.  He also had a decent nest egg built up so that he and my mom could continue to live a comfortable life.  No real changes to spending habits.

2) My FIL.   Retired last year at 61.  Owns a side business that keeps him engaged and income coming in, but retirement account from his primary employer wasn't off the charts.  A decent retirement income, but needs the side business income to maintain his comfort level.  Right decision, but he's handling it poorly.  He's become more isolated, hasn't taken care of his health, and hasn't found other things to occupy his time.  And if the other business goes away, he'd be forced to change his habits.

3) My MIL.  Retired last month at 63.  Put off retirement four times over the last year.  I'm almost certain she'll go back to work as a consultant.  She's already wigging out about money and has nothing to do.  She misses the routine and engagement with others.

4) My former business associate.  Sold his business eight years ago and made a killing at the age of 42.  Retired for two years, bought a sweet ranch.  Hunted and fished every day for a year, then decided he missed running a company.  Started a new business.  Sold that one earlier last year for another modest killing.  Earlier this year, he decided again that he missed the day-to-day engagement and business environment.  Went back to work in sales for another mutual friend.  Doesn't need the money, but wants to be productive.

5) My best friend's dad.  Sold his business to his two sons last year at the age of 67.  Stayed on part time working 2-3 days per week at a modest salary.  Doesn't need the money, but likes to come into the office and feel productive.

What this has lead me to believe is that you're probably better off scaling back and staying engaged (if possible) for a multitude of reasons.  Heck, going to work as a golf course marshall or Home Depot associate seems more enticing than going cold turkey unless you have a very comfortable retirement nest egg PLUS activities (travel, ranching, hunting, golf, fishing) to keep you busy.

[Brew 3049]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

i dont need no fancy degree to become an instagram videoblogger.

My youngest told me this is what she wanted to be when she grew up. I should probably extend my retirement plans and rethink paying for her to be in private school now.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

Just out of curiosity, what is the entry-level salary for an accountant and a BBA finance type.

 

In my day, accountants made mid to high 20s, BBAs maybe a little lower, and engineers solidly into the 30s, which was about as high as a bachelors graduate got.  Now an engineer makes triple that.

Sounds like that general scale, from the late 80s to early 90s held until the aughts, at least.

Edited July 19, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Dahobbs 17522]

46 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Of course, the recession didn't just affect fresh graduates.  A lot of us get off my lawn types had employment setbacks and havoc in our retirement/savings accounts.  And the cost of living has risen for everyone.

Granted, I think it's probably tougher to get a job in the post-recession environment, so there is that.  And the student debt level is absurd.

I see frequent reports that millenials have a "work to live" attitude and that's overall pretty healthy for the long term.  But I think it's probably better to come at early employment with a "live to work" attitude and come to the former attitude over time, from a financial/retirement standpoint.

I don't think I implied that it only affected fresh graduates. It just happens that the data we are looking at mainly involves fresh graduates, and understanding the context is important to understanding the data. 

[TwiceHorn 31438]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think I implied that it only affected fresh graduates. It just happens that the data we are looking at mainly involves fresh graduates, and understanding the context is important to understanding the data. 

No you didn't. I'm not arguing with you, just kind of riffing/expanding on the topic.  And, poor retirement planning (if it exists) is not the exclusive province of millennials by any stretch.

[52-80 19145]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Just out of curiosity, what is the entry-level salary for an accountant and a BBA finance type.

 

In my day, accountants made mid to high 20s, BBAs maybe a little lower, and engineers solidly into the 30s, which was about as high as a bachelors graduate got.  Now an engineer makes triple that.

 

i think 40s as median, 50s-60s if you get in with the big 4 or whatever they are now.  

about a decade ago, my sister got 35 in north texas for a big corporation, doing super menial, laborious stuff that it triggered her to change careers

[Okie State 3804]

Just out of curiosity, what is the entry-level salary for an accountant and a BBA finance type.

 

In my day, accountants made mid to high 20s, BBAs maybe a little lower, and engineers solidly into the 30s, which was about as high as a bachelors graduate got.  Now an engineer makes triple that.

Sounds like that general scale, from the late 80s to early 90s held until the aughts, at least.

In oil and gas it was around $50K plus small signing bonus a little over ten years ago when I graduated. I'd guess it's somewhere in the $60-65K range now.

[Spankytoes 1739]

35 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

i dont need no fancy degree to become an instagram videoblogger.

On that vein, I always wondered why so many women drop all that $ on college just to end up becoming a SAHM within a decade of graduating. I get the social aspect of potentially meeting someone, but that just seems irrational to me.

[HOOKEM4 5036]

I cant fathom how insane the cost of higher education will be for my children. My goal is to steer them into a trade. With few a exceptions, college is not worth it. 

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

On that vein, I always wondered why so many women drop all that $ on college just to end up becoming a SAHM within a decade of graduating. I get the social aspect of potentially meeting someone, but that just seems irrational to me.

A roommate of my wife went to college to meet a man that would earn enough so she could be a SAHM.  She got a general studies degree or some shit.  This was at Midwestern State so at least she had the sense to not put herself in a huge debt hole.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

7 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

On that vein, I always wondered why so many women drop all that $ on college just to end up becoming a SAHM within a decade of graduating. I get the social aspect of potentially meeting someone, but that just seems irrational to me.

 

I think that is called having options. 

 

 

 

 

[52-80 19145]

13 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

On that vein, I always wondered why so many women drop all that $ on college just to end up becoming a SAHM within a decade of graduating. I get the social aspect of potentially meeting someone, but that just seems irrational to me.

a pair of tit enhancement is way cheaper

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

I cant fathom how insane the cost of higher education will be for my children. My goal is to steer them into a trade. With few a exceptions, college is not worth it. 

I would suggest robotics, instrumentation, or controls/plc.

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

1 hour ago, Brew said:

I was in a meeting last week with other managing partners in my industry from across the country. One of the topics was whether we should be sharing partner comp with younger staff so they knew what the future looked like to get them invested earlier. The ones that had shared it all said that they had a lot of kickback from the millenials on the income numbers being exorbitant and sometimes offensive. They were more comfortable with a future making $80k than one that involved making 5-10 times that. There has been a shift with the next group coming out of school but there is still a 15 year group with a different mindset.

Wait until they figure out how little $80K buys.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

39 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

On that vein, I always wondered why so many women drop all that $ on college just to end up becoming a SAHM within a decade of graduating. I get the social aspect of potentially meeting someone, but that just seems irrational to me.

MRS Degrees are not cheap.

[52-80 19145]

18 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Wait until they figure out how little $80K buys.

Like half a year of tuition & board.

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

1 hour ago, Gene Parmesan said:

A roommate of my wife went to college to meet a man that would earn enough so she could be a SAHM.  She got a general studies degree or some shit.  This was at Midwestern State so at least she had the sense to not put herself in a huge debt hole.

I know a guy that went to notre dame back

in the 70s, who says that most of the girls at St. Mary’s were there for a MRS degree. 

[clapclapclap 9000]

17 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Is the answer “Themselves” a trick answer?  Because grammar and shit. 

Sorry, someone hacked my account.

I meant "Them elves."

 

BTW, this is the type of poll where there are no wrong answers, except for three.  Are the Classics like Tito and Jermaine no longer taught?  Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.  

Edited July 19, 2018 by clapclapclap

[Incredulity 11649]

8 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I know a guy that went to notre dame back

in the 70s, who says that most of the girls at St. Mary’s were there for a MRS degree. 

Pretty sure that is still the case at many Universities.

Women looking for a husband and Men looking to delay adult life.

 

Makes the increasing debt amounts incurred that much more insidious.

 

 

[Trey3216 15343]

Prepaying for having to lie on their back a few times per month for the next 15-40 years???

[GSU&UT 1798]

3 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

What shocks me is how little a lot of employers match in 401Ks nowadays.  I've worked for 8 companies. Every one of them matched 6% and my current one matches 6% plus another company contribution that doesn't require an employee contribution that is another 4-11% each year. So my employer contribution is 10-17% each year.  I know so many people working for pretty decent sized, established companies with a 0 - 3% match and an insane vesting schedule.  It'll be interesting to see what happens to all these folks who are going to really have a shitty retirement account even though they may be saving 10-15% annually. 

Yep, and even if they match you have to be there long enough to be vested to 75 or 100% of the matching. My last job had zero matching so I set up a Roth IRA through Betterment with a previous 401k rollover and just deposit several hundred dollars every month. I'm 31 btw with a family (ZOMG millennials don't have kids!!!) and thankfully can save because the software market right now is fucking bananas in the big cities.

[Okie State 3804]

I just can't believe there are companies that don't match. That's some bullshit. I guess as long as their competitors don't, they don't have to either.

 

I did the math on mine earlier and I'm putting away around 30% of my base salary annually including all company contributions. I'd like to do even more than that, but two kids in daycare is brutal.