DeShon Elliott has a message for Tom Herman

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, Hagbard Celine said:

i'm looking for the root cause of the timing.  whatever was said had to have happened weeks or months ago.  we're in a dead period.  if he's po'ed about something said by someone to a recruit then it happened weeks or months ago and he's just now finding out, or the bitching is strategically timed to do damage with the dead period ending.

why today.

Right after media days, too.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

30 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

It always happens when there is a coaching change.. players from the previous regime don't always click with the new regime. There's no real loyalty since theres probably no real relationship

That's true but I think we are just caught up in a broader trend that is touching every team in CFB. Unless you are in the playoff, why bother jeopardizing your career in the Raisincanes.com Bowl or the C&DScrapMetal.com Bowl? It flies against all the logic we claim to adhere to in America. 

Most of these guys are mercenaries. By necessity, they use these colleges as conduits to making it to the NFL. It's a dumb system that is not in place in any other country and it is really corrosive -- I believe a lot of really talented football players never get a chance to show their talents because they can't get into a college, which is like demanding that would-be physicists and chemists and engineers complete a Marine Corps obstacle course in order to obtain their degrees, but I digress. 

Top soccer players in Europe and South America don't have to go to college to get over the hump from teenaged legend to pro. Why do we demand that here? 

 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[TwiceHorn 31478]

Scipio's Take

 

Quote

No doubt Elliott is frustrated and his desire to better his family economically is real. He also considers himself a good citizen and a program guy who got word that the Texas coaches used the fact that he and other players chose to skip the bowl game as a motivational tool for their current team. He also learned that some of his teammates bought in on that narrative wholeheartedly. So he unloads in anger, with a real sense of betrayal. Understandable. But he’s thinking as a college kid; which he stopped being the day he declared for the draft. He needs to start thinking like a pro.

The job of the Texas coaching staff is to get the team that they have ready. Football is a game of the willing. Next man up. The Horns defense didn’t play well enough late in the season and gave up some big passing plays against an ordinary Tech offense. They had a crisis of confidence as new starters struggled. Then they learned they’d be without their two leading tacklers against Missouri in their bowl game. The staff’s message: You don’t need those guys. If they don’t want to play with you, forget ‘em. Though an F word other than forget was probably used. Consider the real pressure that the staff is under at this juncture; a winning season and staff credibility on the line; only to have a player that you featured in your system, that you’ve advised not to go pro for sounds reasons, inform you he’s sitting out with two other teammates to preserve NFL draft status. The coaches have one job to do and that’s the psychological preparation of the team that’s going to play, not dancing around the feelings of those that are on the sideline. Which means rallying around the willing and conveying a message of solidarity and defiance within a depleted team. The result was a spirited bowl win led by the defense.

Rational, as always.  The above seems perhaps to indicate some insight on what the coaches said.

[Hagbard Celine 10866]

Just now, Machinator said:

 

hi jane, you have cute toes.  and you are riding coattails for clicks darlin.

he was given real world advice, he weighed it against the needs of his family, and chose to go against that advice.  what he declares to be bad-mouthing may in fact just be a recitation of the truth.  getting advice about the reality of his career and life prospects that doesn't align with his familiy's need for money may be interpreted by him as bad-mouthing, when in reality he may be suffering from the cognitive dissonance of a set of facts and opinions held by others that do not support his world view.

and that's fair.

tweet it up.  it tells recruits there's no BS on the 40.  you get invited in to the family and you will be taken care of, but you have to earn your degree and your draft position and unlike mack no one (squints, cough cough) gets coddled or spun around.

careful with that bitchassedness though, the network has a long memory.

[Bruh Man 3160]

double post.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Bruh Man

[Sidney Sherman 66]

9 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The NFL really doesn't care about rah-rah college spirit because the know the parameters are different when there is money on the line. I don't like NFL football, and I love college football, but I can't argue with the logic from either the players or the GMs in the NFL. It's a dangerous game, careers are short, and people want to get paid to play it. 

And used to love NCAA hoops too, but I haven't given a shit about them in 20 years once the one-and-done shit became the norm, because the product on the court is so much worse than it used to be. Unless the NCAA starts paying players, or allowing them to be paid by boosters, or allows them to sell their autographs and jerseys and shit like that, we'll be looking at one-and-done football too. 

I hate the NFL as well, I follow different college players from Florida and Texas that I like, but the NFL is too rigged for me.

I understand people want to get paid to play it, but do the cost analysis of being a team player, you play one more bowl game, one more season at Texas...

You go from being drafted round 6 to being drafted round 1 or 2.

You go from making $2M signing bonus and $1M guaranteed to making $400k. The money is at the top, the guys drafted at the top are players you can build a team around, AKA TEAM PLAYERS.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-contract-values-2017-4

[BurntOrange&White 39933]

Herman knows the game, better to tell the truth than lie to protect some mental lightweights. Millennials are almost worthless. 

Lulz at blaming millennials.

[Sidney Sherman 66]

8 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

That's true but I think we are just caught up in a broader trend that is touching every team in CFB. Unless you are in the playoff, why bother jeopardizing your career in the Raisincanes.com Bowl or the C&DScrapMetal.com Bowl? It flies against all the logic we claim to adhere to in America. 

Most of these guys are mercenaries. By necessity, they use these colleges as conduits to making it to the NFL. It's a dumb system that is not in place in any other country and it is really corrosive -- I believe a lot of really talented football players never get a chance to show their talents because they can't get into a college, which is like demanding that would-be physicists and chemists and engineers complete a Marine Corps obstacle course in order to obtain their degrees, but I digress. 

Top soccer players in Europe and South America don't have to go to college to get over the hump from teenaged legend to pro. Why do we demand that here? 

 

It's an attempt to give someone a free education, and options with their life other than sports. So if they are injured, isn't it more useful for them to be college educated and have a career they can fall back on?

[Hagbard Celine 10866]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Scipio's Take

 

Rational, as always.  The above seems perhaps to indicate some insight on what the coaches said.

Yup.  You made your business decision.  Staff made theirs.

[Sidney Sherman 66]

1 minute ago, Bevo VIII said:

Lulz at blaming millennials.

He's not wrong, millennials have a microphone to the world in their pocket at all times. They tend to make stupid announcements like this one that they will regret later.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, Sidney Sherman said:

It's an attempt to give someone a free education, and options with their life other than sports. So if they are injured, isn't it more useful for them to be college educated and have a career they can fall back on?

Now you are steering me to one of my pie in the sky pipe dreams. Colleges could have football schools separate from the main college. For every year you play football, you get one year of free classes in the future. In the meantime, you play football and get life skills classes. Personal finance, mentorship, stuff like that. And then you play football, and if that doesn't work out, then you come back to school at 23 or whatever and cash in your scholarship. 

[C-Man 27229]

Unfortunately, guys sitting out bowl games is only going to get more prevalent. Scouts know that. They can see that and I'm pretty sure they probably don't ding guys for taking that approach. Let me put it this way -- sitting out for the Mizzou bowl game isn't what dropped Elliott to the 6th round.

[Machinator 32099]

 

[C-Man 27229]

5 minutes ago, Sidney Sherman said:

He's not wrong, millennials have a microphone to the world in their pocket at all times. They tend to make stupid announcements like this one that they will regret later.

Josh Hader sheepishly raises his hand.

[BurntOrange&White 39933]

He's not wrong, millennials have a microphone to the world in their pocket at all times. They tend to make stupid announcements like this one that they will regret later.

And old people write letters to the editor in their day. No difference except platform and exposure change.

[Bruh Man 3160]

16 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i'm looking for the root cause of the timing.  whatever was said had to have happened weeks or months ago.  we're in a dead period.  if he's po'ed about something said by someone to a recruit then it happened weeks or months ago and he's just now finding out, or the bitching is strategically timed to do damage with the dead period ending.

why today.

good lord some of you are only capable of viewing this situation through your own selfish recruiting prism. deshon was just in town buying dinner for the dbs. he still cares about UT. maybe just maybe herman is in the wrong here. i know that's difficult to swallow for us fans but let's step back and look at him getting a cosign from conner, the foreman's, jane slater, herman's history with player relationships. 

[Machinator 32099]

Not going to link it here, but Papa Foreman has predictably re-started his anti-Herman rants, piggybacking off this incident.

[TwiceHorn 31478]

2 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

And old people write letters to the editor in their day. No difference except platform and exposure change.

Not every letter to the editor was published, particularly not the racist or otherwise galactically stupid letters.

Edited July 18, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, Bruh Man said:

good lord some of you are only capable of viewing this situation through your own selfish recruiting prism. deshon was just in town buying dinner for the dbs. he still cares about UT. maybe just maybe herman is in the wrong here. i know that's difficult to swallow for us fans but let's step back and look at him getting a cosign from conner, the foreman's, jane slater, herman's history with player relationships. 

Maybe, just maybe, both sides share culpability (although one side is handling things worse than the other)

[Newy25 7668]

He appears to be continuing the streak of good decision making.  

[texasstrong12 4668]

4 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

good lord some of you are only capable of viewing this situation through your own selfish recruiting prism. deshon was just in town buying dinner for the dbs. he still cares about UT. maybe just maybe herman is in the wrong here. i know that's difficult to swallow for us fans but let's step back and look at him getting a cosign from conner, the foreman's, jane slater, herman's history with player relationships. 

So do you think Strong was in the wrong when Chet Moss and Leroy Scott blasted him on twitter? 

You've been hypocritical with your approach to Herman from the get go. Players recruited from previous coaching staffs are always going to have issues with new coaches. It happens everywhere. It happened with Strong. I'm going to bet your position on Strong was completely different though. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by texasstrong12

[GabrielsHorn 2183]

1 minute ago, Bruh Man said:

good lord some of you are only capable of viewing this situation through your own selfish recruiting prism. deshon was just in town buying dinner for the dbs. he still cares about UT. maybe just maybe herman is in the wrong here. i know that's difficult to swallow for us fans but let's step back and look at him getting a cosign from conner, the foreman's, jane slater, herman's history with player relationships. 

If he had a problem with it, don't publicly broadcast it on Twitter where it becomes a national story and hurts the school. 

[Rockethorn1978 6079]

Pussy millennials. 

[Newy25 7668]

1 minute ago, GabrielsHorn said:

If he had a problem with it, don't publicly broadcast it on Twitter where it becomes a national story and hurts the school. 

It hurts himself professionally more that it hurts Herman and the school.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

So you do think Strong was in the wrong when Chet Moss and Leroy Scott blasted him on twitter? 

You've been hypocritical with your approach to Herman from the get go. Players recruited from previous coaching staffs are always going to have issues with new coaches. It happens everywhere. It happened with Strong. I'm going to bet your position on Strong was completely different though. 

Chet Moss and Leroy Scott sucked on the field. 

[BurntOrange&White 39933]

If he had a problem with it, don't publicly broadcast it on Twitter where it becomes a national story and hurts the school. 

On the other hand perhaps the coaches could not have done what they did and this wouldn’t have been blasted. Both sides should share responsibility imo.

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, Bevo VIII said:

On the other hand perhaps the coaches could not have done what they did and this wouldn’t have been blasted. Both sides should share responsibility imo.

We don't know what the coaches did.

[texasstrong12 4668]

2 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Chet Moss and Leroy Scott sucked on the field. 

What's your point? They had issues with Strong because he wasn't Mack Brown and had strict rules/was a hard ass. 

Funny how narratives change. Strong was praised for being a hard ass and enforcing his "vision" and getting "rid of the bad apples". 

Now you have a player who obviously has a connection to the old staff and you're surprised that he might not have bought into what Herman was selling. What an absolute shocker. 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Foosters 17856]

13 minutes ago, Sidney Sherman said:

He's not wrong, millennials have a microphone to the world in their pocket at all times. They tend to make stupid announcements like this one that they will regret later.

He said "millennials are almost worthless." Far cry from "they tend to make stupid announcements on social media." 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Just now, texasstrong12 said:

What's your point? They had issues with Strong because he wasn't Mack Brown and had strict rules/was a hard ass. 

 

Dude, they were both head cases under Brown too. We will never know why they were kicked off the team because Strong never told anyone "behind closed doors." 

 Brown suspended Moss and I could never figure out why Scott didn't play more. You have to figure there was a reason for that. https://www.burntorangenation.com/2014/3/16/5516804/chet-moss-leroy-scott-dismissed-texas-longhorns-violation-team-rules

 

[Tex Long 4400]

4 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Pussy millennials. 

So... no homo?

[Rockethorn1978 6079]

So herman talks behind closed doors, not to the public or on social media and then is bashed on social media by the player for bashing him by basing him? Makes sense.

 

Everything has to be on social media. No one would have ever even heard of this has DeShon not put it out there. Fucking idiot. 

[Rockethorn1978 6079]

Just now, Tex Long said:

So... no homo?

Sorry. Pussy or dick loving millennials.

[BurntOrange&White 39933]

I don’t think I could like someone named Chet or Chip.

[Deej 76796]

I blame Tim Beck. He should be fired immediately. 

[Rockethorn1978 6079]

Just now, Deej said:

I blame Tim Beck. He should be fired immediately. 

I agree with this

[Ghost of Stevie Ray 1584]

11 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Unfortunately, guys sitting out bowl games is only going to get more prevalent. Scouts know that. They can see that and I'm pretty sure they probably don't ding guys for taking that approach. Let me put it this way -- sitting out for the Mizzou bowl game isn't what dropped Elliott to the 6th round.

No, only having 12 games of tape on a kid who sat behind a walk-on for two years because of maturity issues is the reason he dropped to the 6th round.  It definitely wasn't his measurables

[C-Man 27229]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not every letter to the editor was published, particularly not the racist or otherwise galactically stupid letters.

Yup. The decision to publish or not publish was left with somebody else. When it comes to Twitter/Facebook/Snapchat/Instagram/Etc everybody is the writer, headline writer, copy editor, editor and publisher all in one.

[Rockethorn1978 6079]

5 minutes ago, Machinator said:

We don't know what the coaches did.

Exactly. It's to the point whoever says "they heard this or that" and says their version of the story then that is the truth to twitter land. If you come out to defend yourself they will call you a liar.

 

Pretty soon we are just going to let twitter decide our world.

[texasstrong12 4668]

7 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Dude, they were both head cases under Brown too. We will never know why they were kicked off the team because Strong never told anyone "behind closed doors." 

 Brown suspended Moss and I could never figure out why Scott didn't play more. You have to figure there was a reason for that. https://www.burntorangenation.com/2014/3/16/5516804/chet-moss-leroy-scott-dismissed-texas-longhorns-violation-team-rules

 

Again, what's your point? Players from previous staffs often have issues with new coaches. This isn't rocket science. 

Deshon Elliott is dating Strong's daughter. The dude skipped the bowl game to go hang out with Strong and his daughter. This isn't even a criticism of Elliott. Elliott loved Strong and if you don't think there was likely "buy-in" problems from the get go I don't know what to tell you. 

When you change coaches there are always going to be issues with some players that were recruited by another staff. It's just how this goes. Funniest thing is I had this exact same discussion about Strong in reference to the players we are discussing. 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Ghost of Stevie Ray 1584]

11 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

good lord some of you are only capable of viewing this situation through your own selfish recruiting prism. deshon was just in town buying dinner for the dbs. he still cares about UT. maybe just maybe herman is in the wrong here. i know that's difficult to swallow for us fans but let's step back and look at him getting a cosign from conner, the foreman's, jane slater, herman's history with player relationships. 

Let's say I believe that.....As an adult it is piss poor to air it out on Twitter.  It's not about what was or wasn't said, it's about DeShon growing the fuck up and handling his business like a man and not a little baby boy.

[TwiceHorn 31478]

If it was limited to Hermanco boosting the confidence of a bowl team, and this coming team, that just lost all its superstars by saying "fuck those guys who needs em," I don't really have a problem with it.  If it were more personal, then yeah, that ain't cool Tommy.

[C-Man 27229]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Stevie Ray said:

No, only having 12 games of tape on a kid who sat behind a walk-on for two years because of maturity issues is the reason he dropped to the 6th round.  It definitely wasn't his measurables

Exactly. But I have more suspicion he dropped to the 6th round for more tangible reasons -- that Herman may or may not have shared with scouts -- than the fact that Elliott didn't play in the bowl game. Scouts can see that's why he didn't play. Why would that need to be part of anything Herman shared? If he did, Mensa isn't nearly as smart as he thinks he is.

[Hank_Hill 18807]

1 hour ago, Hank_Hill said:

What about....Da Kroker 

Lol oops. Not sure what happened there. Sorry fam. 

[Tex Long 4400]

Be fair - DaSean has done nothing but reinforce his image as an immature dumbass, which could not have escaped the impression gained by scouts who have been intrigued by his "measurables" for at least three years already. 

[MoJames 8244]

Well atleast there are no rapes.

[Machinator 32099]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

Exactly. But I have more suspicion he dropped to the 6th round for more tangible reasons -- that Herman may or may not have shared with scouts -- than the fact that Elliott didn't play in the bowl game. Scouts can see that's why he didn't play. Why would that need to be part of anything Herman shared? If he did, Mensa isn't nearly as smart as he thinks he is.

In general, I think the effect of playing in bowls on a player's draft stock is overstated.

[WBT 20572]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Herman has a lot of growing up to do. I used to hear him throw his players under the bus on Houston radio after UH upset losses, so there really is no telling what he says in private, perhaps not thinking this shit will bet back to the people he's talking about. 

His willingness to badmouth his players and his thin skin are two things he needs to work on. 

 

And to think his first college coaching job was under Mack.  It's a puzzler.

[TankedBevo 2482]

13 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

It hurts himself professionally more that it hurts Herman and the school.  

Not even close. Deshon has a contract. We have unsigned players reading all this bullshit thinking there's problems within the program rather than Deshon's own hubris and lack of nutsack to call up the offending coach and discuss it like a fucking man.

Edited July 18, 2018 by TankedBevo