DeShon Elliott has a message for Tom Herman

[Lhorn 4914]

1 minute ago, TheFlagship said:

How the fuck did this turn into a Charlie Strong thread? 

Because somehow Herman allegedly dissing Deshon means strong coached up the team as well as Herman which is ludicrous 

[GotThatFire 166]

3 minutes ago, TheFlagship said:

How the fuck did this turn into a Charlie Strong thread? 

 Because a Charlie Strong recruit is trying to fuck with Texas football 

[Bodacious Bevo 3584]

For those wanting to get back to the Deshon Drama, I liked Jeff Howe's take at 247. 

Spoiler

Did certain members of the Texas coaching staff voice unsavory opinions about DeShon Elliott that were never meant to be heard by anyone or for anyone beyond walls within the Moncrief Complex to know they existed?

 

Or is Elliott, a 2017 unanimous All-American safety for the Longhorns, showing signs of being immature and ungrateful to a group of coaches who helped him raise his level of play to a point where was able to leave school a year early to enter the NFL draft?

 

Whether the side of the coaches or the player is taken, what everyone with a dog in the fight should be able to agree on is Elliott’s since-deleted Twitter thread where he voiced his displeasure with certain members of the coaching staff has created a situation where there’s no winner.

 

Elliott's comments might not hurt Tom Herman and the efforts the Longhorns are making to build on a 2019 recruiting class that’s currently the nation’s 11th-best haul according to 247Sports, but they don’t help. Regardless of whether or not validity to Elliott’s claims exist, Oklahoma’s Lincoln Riley, Texas A&M’s Jimbo Fisher and the other head coaches and programs Herman and Co. are having to fend off to land the recruits needed to help build a championship-caliber roster will likely gladly use the Twitter thread to show recruits why they shouldn’t call the Forty Acres home.

 

There also appears to be no path Herman can take to make things better in the court of public opinion if he chooses to address Elliott’s comments. If Herman doesn’t address the situation publicly there will be those who feel he’s hiding something, but any attempt to diffuse the situation with a statement or address will be viewed by another segment of the population as merely trying to put a public relations spin on the matter.

 

As far as Elliott is concerned, on the surface, there doesn’t appear to be anything for him to gain from taking his grievances to social media. Even if things what Elliott is alleging is true, doing something to potentially damage a relationship with the University of Texas and the burnt orange faithful that’s meant to exist for the remainder of his days on Earth could be something he regrets.

 

The timing of all of this is interesting considering one of the many questions posed to Herman during Big 12 Media Days dealt directly with his players liking him:

 

“Tom, you’ve talked about running one of the hardest, or the hardest program in the country. Do your players need to like you? Or do they just need to respect the plan you have in place going forward?”

 

With veteran Longhorns Andrew Beck, Breckyn Hager, Chris Nelson and Patrick Vahe flanking him, Herman gave no hesitation for issuing his response:

 

“Respect the plan. They can like me off the field, certainly, and I think a lot of them do. I think there’s four examples here that if you asked, ‘Do you like Coach Herman?’ I imagine the answer would be ‘yes.’ But you asked do they need to, and the answer is no, they don’t need to like me. They don’t need to like the coaches. Just like a kid doesn’t need to like his parent, he needs to respect his parent and respect the rules and expectations that the parents sets. In fact, when I’m asked, ‘Use a word to describe your program?’ I use the word parental quite a bit. Meaning, we’re going to shower you with unconditional love, we’re going to give you every tool and resource and education on the face of the planet in order to help you succeed. But we’re also going to hold you to some very, very, very high standards and we’re going to hold you accountable if those standards aren’t met. I think any good parent would say the same thing.”

 

It would be unfair and unwise to assume the alleged comments were about Elliott’s work ethic, or that Elliott decided that being paid to play football would be better than another year going through offseason in Herman’s program. What matters for the Longhorns in 2018 and beyond is what Beck, a fifth-year senior tight end who was recruited by Mack Brown, played in every season of the Charlie Strong era and will close his career with two years under his belt in Herman’s program, had to say about how much things have changed when it comes to the players being bought in to the way the current regime operates.

 

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“I think with Coach Strong, a lot of people said that they were bought in, but I think when you got into the locker room we had a lot of locker room lawyers and people that kind of had their own opinions on everything,” Beck said. “I think now, the leadership is spread far enough in the locker room that if certain guys catch wind of that they’re quick to snuff it out and kind of, ‘Hey, that’s not how we do things around here anymore.’”

 

3COMMENTS

Even though Elliott’s comments are something Texas will have to fight against on the recruiting trail, Beck’s comments, the growth in the relationship between Herman and Hager and the Longhorns building depth in the program with a 2018 recruiting that was ranked No. 3 nationally by 247Sports are examples of there being more than enough players on the current roster who not only like their head coach, but who believe in the plan Herman has to get Texas back to winning big.

 

For those concerned about the Longhorns improving on last season’s 7-6 record, that’s all that should matter amidst a situation both parties will hopefully move on from in relatively short order.

That's pretty much how I would handle it on recruiting if I were Herman: He's a good coach with a good track record. He's going to be hard on players. They can be friends, but sometimes people won't like Herman. But his job is to recruit well, coach up his players, and win games. We're on our way (hopefully) to winning games and the development on the defensive side of the ball is there. Let's hope the offensive assistants get it together. 

[Lhorn 4914]

1 minute ago, GotThatFire said:

 Because a Charlie Strong recruit is trying to fuck with Texas football 

If he loved Strong so much you would have thought he’d have played better for him. 

[GotThatFire 166]

Just now, Lhorn said:

If he loved Strong so much you would have thought he’d have played better for him. 

 He loved Charlie’s daughter too,  but that love couldn’t make his pecker get deeper or stop her from transferring to Florida 

[Quasimofo 406]

How the fuck did this turn into a Charlie Strong thread? 

Because Okie Lite refs

[TreatyOak 16365]

4 hours ago, GotThatFire said:

 What do we know as fact? 

*  some players that Charlie Strong recruited, one of which was in love with Charlie Strong‘s daughter, left school early and refused to play in the bowl game on their way out, thus forcing our coaches to adapt to a depleted roster and motivate the players that didn’t bail as best they could 

*  A player that Charlie Strong recruited, that was also in love with Charlie Strong’s daughter, is publicly calling out our coaches on social media, and by extension so are the other Charlie Strong players that left school early and bailed on the team for the bowl game,  by publicly agreeing with the player that is calling out our coaches on social media 

*  before Herman got here, these were players that lost to Kansas 

*  honesty from a coach is always the best policy, especially when millions of dollars and the trust of NFL organizations are involved 

This can never be emphasized enough, lulz. Remember when they threatened to boycott the following TCU game, which they also lost? LOL. 

Because of our hangover PTSD, we still don't really understand how utterly wretched Charle Strong and his staff was. 

[dhornf 52]

This season can't get here soon enough. 

[cochamps 1879]

1 hour ago, Trent Whaley said:

Who knows, maybe if he wins another mediocre bowl game again just to get above .500 they’ll give him a raise. Hell, he got a brand new locker room before he even coached a game when Charlie couldn’t even get a new clipboard. And Charlie still was able to bring in a great recruiting class. When it comes to in game coaching/ adjustments, on field discipline, horrible special teams, there isn’t an improvement at all from Charlie.

Tired of your shit.

[texifornia 56994]

22 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

This can never be emphasized enough, lulz. Remember when they threatened to boycott the following TCU game, which they also lost? LOL. 

 Because of our hangover PTSD, we still don't really understand how utterly wretched Charle Strong and his staff was. 

I really liked Charlie - he seemed like a guy who had his players' best interests at heart. Still do think well of him in that respect.

That said I didn't even check my phone during dinner during that game - just saw the score at the bar after and said "huh that seems right." After Kansas the rot was all so clear.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, txbroadcaster said:

I am still pissed Mackovich was fired unfairly!!! 

Mackovic had to go but he sure as hell left the program in better shape than Mack did. 

[Etexhorn13 3051]

What a fucking loser. Who gives themselves their own nickname, anyway?

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

9 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Herman knows the game, better to tell the truth than lie to protect some mental lightweights. Millennials are almost worthless. 

In Bold.  And sure teams will try to use this to recruit negatively...but in today's world pretty much every team will have some malcontent that feels he needs to air his dirty laundry out over social media.  What's more annoying than players doing this?  Fans who are crying...OH NOES!!! THE CROOTZ?!?!?  That only encourages more babies to fling shit. 

[Valmy77 13242]

3 hours ago, Trent Whaley said:

Nope, Just the facts. Herman hasn’t shown any signs that he’s better than Charlie was. And unless that defense some how improves after losing its best players including DeShon and the offensive line magically goes from mediocre to decent this team will be average at best.

Well the fact is he has a winning season at Texas. Charlie never did. Does that qualify as a fact or a sign?

Anyway I hate this lame team drama twitter garbage, especially as the media hardly ever investigates or does any work to clarify what is going on. They just make up things and make the situation even more confusing. So it is best just to ignore this stuff as it confuses more than informs. I mean outside of a few clued in people with actual integrity who do journalism. But those are pretty rare in sports media. Besides you cannot possibly get the work in and get a story written before the twitter-verse has moved on to the next thing to babble about.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

9 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Oh fuck that. My son is in the army. He is a millennial. So are almost all the others in the army today. And the Marines, the Navy, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, etc. The kids are alright. 

Sure they're alright.  But they like to spill every little feeling out online.  Are there other generations that do that?  Sure, but it's pretty specific to the majority of millenials I've dealt with - full disclosure they're not in the military.  I hate when someone/something is knocked and immediately a poster has to go to the 'well so and so served in the army!'.  Well shit, I guess that means we should never criticize anyone or anything.  Oh, and thank your son for his service.  And that's my lawn you're standing on...

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Sure they're alright.  But they like to spill every little feeling out online.  Are there other generations that do that?  Sure, but it's pretty specific to the majority of millenials I've dealt with - full disclosure they're not in the military.  I hate when someone/something is knocked and immediately a poster has to go to the 'well so and so served in the army!'.  Well shit, I guess that means we should never criticize anyone or anything.  Oh, and thank your son for his service.  And that's my lawn you're standing on...

If we had the access to spill all our feels out to the whole world when we were their age, we would have done it too. 

[texifornia 56994]

3 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

 Sure they're alright.  But they like to spill every little feeling out online.  Are there other generations that do that?  Sure, but it's pretty specific to the majority of millenials I've dealt with - full disclosure they're not in the military.  I hate when someone/something is knocked and immediately a poster has to go to the 'well so and so served in the army!'.  Well shit, I guess that means we should never criticize anyone or anything.  Oh, and thank your son for his service.  And that's my lawn you're standing on...

Hahahaha olds talking shit about millenials about social media when we all know twenty older relatives/coworkers airing family drama and weird political memes on Facebook that the younger folks would never show in public.

[dcbc 14487]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

We will be 100% consistent, I guarantee it. If Tom Herman leads us to his second straight losing season this year then every single surly poster will publicly call for his firing.

Is there not a "Fire Tom Herman" thread yet?  We're slipping.

[Machinator 32099]

Just now, dcbc said:

Is there not a "Fire Tom Herman" thread yet?  We're slipping.

It's there. I was actually surprised it hasn't been bumped yet.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

3 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

If we had the access to spill all our feels out to the whole world when we were their age, we would have done it too. 

Oh fuck, I'm sure I would...  To my defense I'm not on fb/ig/snaps or any of that other bullshit.  But yes, if I grew up with them, I'm sure I'd suck in that regard. 

1 minute ago, texifornia said:

Hahahaha olds talking shit about millenials about social media when we all know twenty older relatives/coworkers airing family drama and weird political memes on Facebook that the younger folks would never show in public.

Yes, I know too many morons even at my age who are on social media - and to your point probably not as savvy in how they use it.  But see above...I maintain my innocence. 

[Chad 1728]

Offseason drama.....lulz.

[texasstrong12 4668]

2 hours ago, The Earl of Texas said:

Goddamn, there are still Charlie Strong supporters? 

Strong was extremely polarizing. There's actually a lot of fans that loved him. Most of his recruits/players loved him with the same enthusiasm.

It's why I always knew there would be issues with any coach that followed Strong. Hager's comments yesterday about "never giving Herman a chance and  disliking Herman for no reason" is probably the attitude several players had coming into last year. A lot of players were upset that Strong was fired so there was always going to be resentment for the new guy. 

I was never a Herman guy but all in all I actually think he's done a decent job of managing this situation. This wasn't an easy task to follow Strong with how well liked he was with players. 

 

 

 

[dcbc 14487]

7 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Strong was extremely polarizing. There's actually a lot of fans that loved him. Most of his recruits/players loved him with the same enthusiasm.

It's why I always knew there would be issues with any coach that followed Strong. Hager's comments yesterday about "never giving Herman a chance and  disliking Herman for no reason" is probably the attitude several players had coming into last year. A lot of players were upset that Strong was fired so there was always going to be resentment for the new guy. 

I was never a Herman guy but all in all I actually think he's done a decent job of managing this situation. This wasn't an easy task to follow Strong with how well liked he was with players. 

 

 

 

I was told by a former Longhorn football player from the 2005--2008 era at a dinner last night that a bunch of players were intent on leaving and not playing for Herman, but were talked off the ledge by a lot of former players.

[thepop 4409]

1 hour ago, Quasimofo said:

2 hours ago, TheFlagship said:

How the fuck did this turn into a Charlie Strong thread? 

Because Okie Lite refs

triggered

[texasstrong12 4668]

5 minutes ago, dcbc said:

I was told by a former Longhorn football player from the 2005--2008 era at a dinner last night that a bunch of players were intent on leaving and not playing for Herman, but were talked off the ledge by a lot of former players.

Several players tweeted as much when Strong was fired. Even before Herman was hired. 

 

 

 

[dcbc 14487]

Just now, texasstrong12 said:

Several players tweeted as much when Strong was fired. Even before Herman was hired. 

 

 

 

I must have missed that at the time.  I figured there was a lot of loyalty there though.  Lesson:  among all other things not done, don't lose to Kansas.

[Lhorn 4914]

39 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Hahahaha olds talking shit about millenials about social media when we all know twenty older relatives/coworkers airing family drama and weird political memes on Facebook that the younger folks would never show in public.

Ya had me right up to here

[markstanco 12577]

Wow. Comparing Mackovic to brown.

One of these is NOT like the other. Dumbasses.

[runthebone 8012]

1 hour ago, Etexhorn13 said:

What a fucking loser. Who gives themselves their own nickname, anyway?

I don't know, "Etexhorn13."

 

Anyway, he was a mid-6th round pick for reasons other than Tom Herman.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

We gave Mack a seven years to not maximize, despite the fact that he walked into a roster that was absolutely fucking loaded compared to what he left Charlie. 

Goddamn you are wearing me out with your obvious Charlie apologism. Go fuck your own face. 

[ButtFumble 5180]

4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Goddamn you are wearing me out with your obvious Charlie apologism. Go fuck your own face. 

 

yea never mind that Mack went 9-3, won The Cotton Bowl and was ranked #15/16 his first year and then won 9 games the next two years then won 11 games and was ranked in the top 5 and the top 10

that is significantly different than having 3 losing seasons in a row where your team just falls apart in the 3rd year

[texifornia 56994]

13 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Goddamn you are wearing me out with your obvious Charlie apologism. Go fuck your own face. 

For once, I completely agree with Rex Kramer.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

 

yea never mind that Mack went 9-3, won The Cotton Bowl and was ranked #15/16 his first year and then won 9 games the next two years then won 11 games and was ranked in the top 5 and the top 10

that is significantly different than having 3 losing seasons in a row where your team just falls apart in the 3rd year

What Mackovic left behind:

Ricky Williams -- Heisman
Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton -- multiyear NFL starters, one of whom should be in the HOF; 8 Pro Bowls between them.   
Major Applewhite -- elite college QB
Kwame Cavil -- 100 catches in jr year,  

Wane McGarity,  -- all conference receiver
Leonard Davis -- all American, multiyear starter in the NFL, 3 Pro Bowls
Quentin Jammer -- all American, 11-year starter in the NFL
D.D. Lewis -- all conference LB, 8-year NFL career
Hodges Mitchell -- decent enough RB; still top ten in career yards at UT

Most of those guys were underclassmen; Brown had something to build on, and in those early years, he did recruit his ass off. 

What Mack left behind

D'Onta -- great workhorse back. Remains to be seen what kind of pro he will be. I'm getting sick of typing this, but Mack did not want to take him. He only wanted Armanti and almost managed to piss both of them away on the eve of signing day because he treated D'Onta like shit. 

Malcom Brown -- great DT, but no Casey Hampton

Quandre Diggs -- didn't amount to shit until Charlie's first year. So-so NFL CB, since moved to safety. 

Jordan Hicks -- fragile but great LB

All gone after year one of Charlie

And Hassan Ridgeway -- borderline starter in the NFL, hurt all the time in college. 
 

And that's not even getting in to having to roll with Tyrone Swoopes and Jarrod Heard at QB and the sorry OL. 

Please tell me who could win more than 7 with that. 

I've had people tell me straight faced on these boards that we would have won none of the close losses in Charlie's first two years if we had Ash under center instead of Swoopes or Heard. Like Ash wouldn't have been worth a TD or two per game as opposed to a slow inaccurate but tough dude like Swoopes, or Heard, who was fast and inaccurate and running for his life behind the worst OL we've ever had in my 40 years of watching this team. 

[ButtFumble 5180]

Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

What Mackovic left behind:

Ricky Williams -- Heisman
Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton -- multiyear NFL starters, one of whom should be in the HOF; 8 Pro Bowls between them.   
Major Applewhite -- elite college QB
Kwame Cavil -- 100 catches in jr year,  

Wane McGarity,  -- all conference receiver
Leonard Davis -- all American, multiyear starter in the NFL, 3 Pro Bowls
Quentin Jammer -- all American, 11-year starter in the NFL
D.D. Lewis -- all conference LB, 8-year NFL career
Hodges Mitchell -- decent enough RB; still top ten in career yards at UT

Most of those guys were underclassmen; Brown had something to build on, and in those early years, he did recruit his ass off. 

What Mack left behind

D'Onta -- great workhorse back. Remains to be seen what kind of pro he will be. I'm getting sick of typing this, but Mack did not want to take him. He only wanted Armanti and almost managed to piss both of them away on the eve of signing day because he treated D'Onta like shit. 

Malcom Brown -- great DT, but no Casey Hampton

Quandre Diggs -- didn't amount to shit until Charlie's first year. So-so NFL CB, since moved to safety. 

Jordan Hicks -- fragile but great LB

All gone after year one of Charlie

And Hassan Ridgeway -- borderline starter in the NFL, hurt all the time in college. 
 

And that's not even getting in to having to roll with Tyrone Swoopes and Jarrod Heard at QB and the sorry OL. 

Please tell me who could win more than 7 with that. 

I've had people tell me straight faced on these boards that we would have won none of the close losses in Charlie's first two years if we had Ash under center instead of Swoopes or Heard. Like Ash wouldn't have been worth a TD or two per game as opposed to a slow inaccurate but tough dude like Swoopes, or Heard, who was fast and inaccurate and running for his life behind the worst OL we've ever had in my 40 years of watching this team. 

 

yea and coach wine and cheese managed to go 4-7 with that group the year before

plus Charlie was not fired after his first year when he went 6-7 and lost the Replacement Car Parts Bowl Presented by Diners Club he was fired after his 3rd seasons when he went 5-6 after going 5-6 the year before and when he had his team get 3 extra points blocked in a single game so poorly blocked that someone in a Walmart scooter cart could have blocked them and rascaled them back for touch down

[Bruh Man 3160]

10 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

So do you think Strong was in the wrong when Chet Moss and Leroy Scott blasted him on twitter? 

You've been hypocritical with your approach to Herman from the get go. Players recruited from previous coaching staffs are always going to have issues with new coaches. It happens everywhere. It happened with Strong. I'm going to bet your position on Strong was completely different though. 

not sure if there's a search feature on here but if there is I suggest you use it and educate yourself on my opinion of herman. i was ecstatic when he was hired and he's had my support despite a difficult first season. your obsession with Strong is noted, we get it you hated the guy.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Mackovic was strange in that he turned a shitty program around, made it respectable again, then fizzled out abysmally, but nevertheless left it better than he found it. 

Charlie inherited a program that had rotted to the core, slowly but surely stocked it with talent, but had shitty results on the field. He also left the program in better shape than when he got it. 

Mack's arc was to walk into a loaded cupboard, recruit really well, underachieve for about five years, take us to the mountaintop for another five, then drag us through the briar patch for the last five. It's a really weird arc. Second-best coach in UT history and the worst coach in UT history -- Mack somehow managed to be both. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

12 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

.your obsession with Strong is noted, we get it you hated the guy.

yeah besides the fact I was one of his bigger supporters. Anybody that follows my posts/twitter account is probably laughing at the fact you think "I hate Strong". Matter of fact, I've probably pissed off plenty of people with my support of Strong. 

This is why people get tired of Strong supporters. When you try and hold them to the same standard when it comes to their treatment of Herman it's perceived as "you hate Charlie Strong".

You've been constantly bitching about how the "team hates Herman" when this exact same shit happened with a lot of Mack Brown players while Strong was the coach. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Hurtlocker 2213]

2 hours ago, Etexhorn13 said:

What a fucking loser. Who gives themselves their own nickname, anyway?

Everyone on message boards?

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

Lol this thread is going places.  

[Slacks 6821]

Mackovic was strange in that he turned a shitty program around, made it respectable again, then fizzled out abysmally, but nevertheless left it better than he found it. 
Charlie inherited a program that had rotted to the core, slowly but surely stocked it with talent, but had shitty results on the field. He also left the program in better shape than when he got it. 
Mack's arc was to walk into a loaded cupboard, recruit really well, underachieve for about five years, take us to the mountaintop for another five, then drag us through the briar patch for the last five. It's a really weird arc. Second-best coach in UT history and the worst coach in UT history -- Mack somehow managed to be both. 

I don't even know what this thread is about... but this post makes a lot of sense... and is confusing at the same time...

I just hope we can finally start putting OL depth together soon... again... finally...

[Slacks 6821]

Finally... again.... soon.

[markstanco 12577]

What Mackovic left behind:
Ricky Williams -- Heisman
Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton -- multiyear NFL starters, one of whom should be in the HOF; 8 Pro Bowls between them.   
Major Applewhite -- elite college QB
Kwame Cavil -- 100 catches in jr year,  
Wane McGarity,  -- all conference receiver
Leonard Davis -- all American, multiyear starter in the NFL, 3 Pro Bowls
Quentin Jammer -- all American, 11-year starter in the NFL
D.D. Lewis -- all conference LB, 8-year NFL career
Hodges Mitchell -- decent enough RB; still top ten in career yards at UT
Most of those guys were underclassmen; Brown had something to build on, and in those early years, he did recruit his ass off. 
What Mack left behind
D'Onta -- great workhorse back. Remains to be seen what kind of pro he will be. I'm getting sick of typing this, but Mack did not want to take him. He only wanted Armanti and almost managed to piss both of them away on the eve of signing day because he treated D'Onta like shit. 
Malcom Brown -- great DT, but no Casey Hampton
Quandre Diggs -- didn't amount to shit until Charlie's first year. So-so NFL CB, since moved to safety. 
Jordan Hicks -- fragile but great LB
All gone after year one of Charlie
And Hassan Ridgeway -- borderline starter in the NFL, hurt all the time in college. 
 
And that's not even getting in to having to roll with Tyrone Swoopes and Jarrod Heard at QB and the sorry OL. 
Please tell me who could win more than 7 with that. 
I've had people tell me straight faced on these boards that we would have won none of the close losses in Charlie's first two years if we had Ash under center instead of Swoopes or Heard. Like Ash wouldn't have been worth a TD or two per game as opposed to a slow inaccurate but tough dude like Swoopes, or Heard, who was fast and inaccurate and running for his life behind the worst OL we've ever had in my 40 years of watching this team. 

Mack took those players and won a national championship in 2005. Totally took advantage of previous classes.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Just now, markstanco said:

23 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

What Mackovic left behind:
Ricky Williams -- Heisman
Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton -- multiyear NFL starters, one of whom should be in the HOF; 8 Pro Bowls between them.   
Major Applewhite -- elite college QB
Kwame Cavil -- 100 catches in jr year,  
Wane McGarity,  -- all conference receiver
Leonard Davis -- all American, multiyear starter in the NFL, 3 Pro Bowls
Quentin Jammer -- all American, 11-year starter in the NFL
D.D. Lewis -- all conference LB, 8-year NFL career
Hodges Mitchell -- decent enough RB; still top ten in career yards at UT
Most of those guys were underclassmen; Brown had something to build on, and in those early years, he did recruit his ass off. 
What Mack left behind
D'Onta -- great workhorse back. Remains to be seen what kind of pro he will be. I'm getting sick of typing this, but Mack did not want to take him. He only wanted Armanti and almost managed to piss both of them away on the eve of signing day because he treated D'Onta like shit. 
Malcom Brown -- great DT, but no Casey Hampton
Quandre Diggs -- didn't amount to shit until Charlie's first year. So-so NFL CB, since moved to safety. 
Jordan Hicks -- fragile but great LB
All gone after year one of Charlie
And Hassan Ridgeway -- borderline starter in the NFL, hurt all the time in college. 
 
And that's not even getting in to having to roll with Tyrone Swoopes and Jarrod Heard at QB and the sorry OL. 
Please tell me who could win more than 7 with that. 
I've had people tell me straight faced on these boards that we would have won none of the close losses in Charlie's first two years if we had Ash under center instead of Swoopes or Heard. Like Ash wouldn't have been worth a TD or two per game as opposed to a slow inaccurate but tough dude like Swoopes, or Heard, who was fast and inaccurate and running for his life behind the worst OL we've ever had in my 40 years of watching this team. 

Read more  

Mack took those players and won a national championship in 2005. Totally took advantage of previous classes.

Oh and all the high points between 1998 and 2005. Gooner ass-rapings (63-14, 65-13, somehow they pitched a shutout against us with VY and Ced in the backfield); Snyder's voodoo magic. Zero conference titles. 1-2 in Holiday Bowls. The Second Fiddle Superior Talent Era. That was fun.  

[markstanco 12577]

Quandre Diggs -- didn't amount to shit until Charlie's first year. So-so NFL CB, since moved to safety

Quandre was a nobody until Charlie's first year? Big 12 freshman defensive player of the year is a dumb award I guess maybenotacoordinator.

[markstanco 12577]

Oh and all the high points between 1998 and 2005. Gooner ass-rapings (63-14, 65-13, somehow they pitched a shutout against us with VY and Ced in the backfield); Snyder's voodoo magic. Zero conference titles. 1-2 in Holiday Bowls. The Second Fiddle Superior Talent Era. That was fun.  

Kansas Jayhawks.

[GotThatFire 166]

25 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

yeah besides the fact I was one of his bigger supporters. Anybody that follows my posts/twitter account is probably laughing at the fact you think "I hate Strong". Matter of fact, I've probably pissed off plenty of people with my support of Strong. 

This is why people get tired of Strong supporters. When you try and hold them to the same standard when it comes to their treatment of Herman it's perceived as "you hate Charlie Strong".

You've been constantly bitching about how the "team hates Herman" when this exact same shit happened with a lot of Mack Brown players while Strong was the coach. 

Lol.  Charlie Strong was by far absolutely 100% the worst coach in Texas history. Mack Brown won a national championship, the only one in my lifetime. Charli was a steaming pile of dog shit as a HC here

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 minutes ago, markstanco said:

9 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Oh and all the high points between 1998 and 2005. Gooner ass-rapings (63-14, 65-13, somehow they pitched a shutout against us with VY and Ced in the backfield); Snyder's voodoo magic. Zero conference titles. 1-2 in Holiday Bowls. The Second Fiddle Superior Talent Era. That was fun.  

Kansas Jayhawks.

Aside from the annual Stoopsing, there was losing to Stanford when were #5. Losing to NC State on like five billion blocked punts. Losing to Wazzu in the Holiday Bowl because Mack seemed to think it was just mean for those guys to blitz VY, who'd been coached up to that point to stand in the pocket and take an ass-whoopin' like a real QB. The Colorado CCG debacle. Major throwing about nine picks to K-State in 1999. Tech sticking the knife in our already dim NC hopes in 2002. Losing to the ultimately unranked piggies at home in 2003. That gooner shutout in 2004.

You could just pencil OU in as a loss every year -- your just hoped Stoops would slather on some lube. And there was usually some other fucking game Mack would blow, from 1998 right up to 2004, a season they kind of ruined by not letting Vince be Vince until after the OU shutout. 

Shit, that reminds me. In those years, seems like Mack always waited until after he'd gotten shellacked by Stoops to put talented freshmen out there. 

[GotThatFire 166]

36 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Mackovic was strange in that he turned a shitty program around, made it respectable again, then fizzled out abysmally, but nevertheless left it better than he found it. 

Charlie inherited a program that had rotted to the core, slowly but surely stocked it with talent, but had shitty results on the field. He also left the program in better shape than when he got it. 

Mack's arc was to walk into a loaded cupboard, recruit really well, underachieve for about five years, take us to the mountaintop for another five, then drag us through the briar patch for the last five. It's a really weird arc. Second-best coach in UT history and the worst coach in UT history -- Mack somehow managed to be both. 

 My previous post was supposed to be in response to this post. Don’t know what happened, can’t delete. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, GotThatFire said:

Lol.  Charlie Strong was by far absolutely 100% the worst coach in Texas history. Mack Brown won a national championship, the only one in my lifetime. Charli was a steaming pile of dog shit as a HC here

Because Mack left him with an Everest of steaming dog shit. 

[Trent Whaley 118]

53 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

What Mackovic left behind:

Ricky Williams -- Heisman
Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton -- multiyear NFL starters, one of whom should be in the HOF; 8 Pro Bowls between them.   
Major Applewhite -- elite college QB
Kwame Cavil -- 100 catches in jr year,  

Wane McGarity,  -- all conference receiver
Leonard Davis -- all American, multiyear starter in the NFL, 3 Pro Bowls
Quentin Jammer -- all American, 11-year starter in the NFL
D.D. Lewis -- all conference LB, 8-year NFL career
Hodges Mitchell -- decent enough RB; still top ten in career yards at UT

Most of those guys were underclassmen; Brown had something to build on, and in those early years, he did recruit his ass off. 

What Mack left behind

D'Onta -- great workhorse back. Remains to be seen what kind of pro he will be. I'm getting sick of typing this, but Mack did not want to take him. He only wanted Armanti and almost managed to piss both of them away on the eve of signing day because he treated D'Onta like shit. 

Malcom Brown -- great DT, but no Casey Hampton

Quandre Diggs -- didn't amount to shit until Charlie's first year. So-so NFL CB, since moved to safety. 

Jordan Hicks -- fragile but great LB

All gone after year one of Charlie

And Hassan Ridgeway -- borderline starter in the NFL, hurt all the time in college. 
 

And that's not even getting in to having to roll with Tyrone Swoopes and Jarrod Heard at QB and the sorry OL. 

Please tell me who could win more than 7 with that. 

I've had people tell me straight faced on these boards that we would have won none of the close losses in Charlie's first two years if we had Ash under center instead of Swoopes or Heard. Like Ash wouldn't have been worth a TD or two per game as opposed to a slow inaccurate but tough dude like Swoopes, or Heard, who was fast and inaccurate and running for his life behind the worst OL we've ever had in my 40 years of watching this team. 

Yep, the program began to rot slowly with the horrible recruiting classes right after winning the NC.  Especially that recruiting class that had the DB that got in trouble from Port Arthur.

Because of that Mack Brown relied heavily on the small but great recruiting class that included Colt, and Jamaal Charles. And when Colt and that small but great recruiting class graduated was when the the entire foundation became completely rotted because those recruiting classes Mack signed right after winning the NC were for the most part horrible. Because of that Texas has been mediocre for almost a Decade.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Trent Whaley