Answer my son's musical question...

[Guest]

Little FTC asked me a hell of a stumper yesterday and I want some input...

"Dad, who was the most popular between Elvis, Michael Jackson, and The Beatles?"

I hemmed and hawed, but he pressed me. I eventually answered The Beatles.

Is that right? Damn that question was a doozy.

[Handcruser 2805]

Little FTC asked me a hell of a stumper yesterday and I want some input...
"Dad, who was the most popular between Elvis, Michael Jackson, and The Beatles?"
I hemmed and hawed, but he pressed me. I eventually answered The Beatles.
Is that right? Damn that question was a doozy.

Well-

The Beatles have sold more records
Elvis 2 and Michael 3 I think.

Elvis had the most watched musical event in history.

But Michael - he would probably be my selection due to the time he was popular.

[Handcruser 2805]

Beatles -600m + records sold
Elvis - 500m +
Michael - 400m+

Elvis had a 7 year head start on the Beatles
Beatles had a ~12 year head start on Michael (I’m not counting his Jackson 5 shit)

Rethinking - it’s the Beatles. My least favorite of the 3.

[Paul Wesley 3278]

Funny, I was going to say either Elvis or the Beatles.  
 

They introduced an entirely new genre (at least for whitey), and they did it at a time when the country (and world) all consumed popular culture at exactly the same moment.  
 

For a long time, the most recognized words on the planet were (allegedly) Elvis, Jesus, and Coca-Cola.  

[gsoda3 3251]

i'd say the beatles once you consider their international appeal vs the other two.  now add taylor swift to the mix.  is that answer still the beatles?

[Chad Fuck 17661]

6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

i'd say the beatles once you consider their international appeal vs the other two.  now add taylor swift to the mix.  is that answer still the beatles?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2024/02/27/taylor-swift-tops-one-of-the-beatles-most-impressive-records/?sh=2fce489941ea

Quote

Taylor Swift Tops One Of The Beatles’ Most Impressive Records

 

[Napoleon 8666]

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Little FTC asked me a hell of a stumper yesterday and I want some input...

"Dad, who was the most popular between Elvis, Michael Jackson, and The Beatles?"

I hemmed and hawed, but he pressed me. I eventually answered The Beatles.

Is that right? Damn that question was a doozy.

Two groomers vs the greatest band ever…

🤔

[Red Five 40847]

Tell him the correct answer is Oasis.

[Pato del Muerto 52487]

Tell him that art isn’t meant to be measured by popularity, so stop asking stupid questions. 

[YGIFS 19449]

36 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Tell him the correct answer is Oasis.

I am picturing when Will Ferrell on SNL was an MP and kept getting up to ask, "doesn't anybody here care about the band Oasis?!?!?"  And we are laughing. 

It's a tough one with no discernible answer except that they all stole from the Delta Blues, but it was what it was.  None of them did it with any maliciousness.  But the eras are really the differentiator.  

Elvis comes along just as car radios are the best part of the car.  When TV music showcases are just getting big.  He doesn't really have any songwriting ability.  But he can play guitar and sing and move and juke like nothing anybody had ever seen before.  He goes and serves his country and then comes back and gets sucked into some bullshit B-movie career where both the acting and the music were, let's be honest, very sub-par.  And then has his re-boot.  He learns to put songs into different keys and different arrangements and reinvents his whole catalogue ('ludes notwithstanding).  25+ years of absolute musical entertainment taken in a dozen different directions.  We love him because he was the first of his kind to take advantage of the new media, but he lives on because of the way he kept rebooting himself before rebooting yourself was even a thing.  

Michael Jackson comes along at another pivotal time of genre change and media evolution.  Many of y'all are about my age.  We all remember sitting down to watch the debut of the "Thriller" music video.  We all remember the jackets and the Billy Jean video and the street toughs dance in "Beat It."  I was too young to know what it was like to watch Elvis in real time, but watching Michael's TV appearances and listening to Thriller on my Walkman boggled my fucking mind.  His ~15 year run from the end of the Jackson5 to "Off the Wall" to "Thriller" to "Bad" was arguably the height of the pop rock in our era.  Where you place yourself in time and space has a lot to do with how you onboarded Elvis and MJ.  

And then the Beatles.  The shortest run of any of the 3 artists we're discussing, by far.  Hamburg.  Then bubble-gum pop crap.  With constant touring and TV appearances and the first truly global appeal of a musical act never achieved before.  But instead of doing a ton off movies or merch or touring, they fall off the grid for a few years and got deep into drugs and musical production and songwriting and turned everything we knew about music on its head.  I know Led Zeppelin isn't on the list, and there are dozens of Delta Bluesman we should be paying homage to, but what LZ and mainly the Beatles did in terms of bending songwriting and studio recording and production and blending of genres---it didn't change the world.  But it changed other people and those people went out and changed the world.  

Edited March 4 by YGIFS

[Jerry Callo 8699]

Elvis influenced the Beatles . . . Beatles influenced everyone . . . everyone was knowingly or unknowingly influenced by Elvis.

[Deej 76756]

Led Zeppelin

[YGIFS 19449]

Well I don't know how old little FTC is, but if you really wanna bring the music circle of life back on home...you can tell him they're all intertwined because Michael Jackson finger-blasted Lisa Presley to get ahold of her dad's musical rights of the catalogue to get back at the Beatles whom Elvis envied.

Edited March 4 by YGIFS

[Mittens 8259]

3 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Elvis had the most watched musical event in history.

I don't recall seeing Elvis at Live Aid.  Hell, Michael Jackson's funeral had more tv eyes than Aloha from Hawaii.

[Handcruser 2805]

I don't recall seeing Elvis at Live Aid.  Hell, Michael Jackson's funeral had more tv eyes than Aloha from Hawaii.

Yeah true.

Elvis it is in my book. Fuck I’ve gone full circle.

[Celery Man 20933]

There are a million different ways you could slice a question like that, and whichever you use that leads you to “The Beatles” is fine.

[locodos 5387]

Elvis

The Beatles split fame between the four of them.  Elvis was a solo icon.  Even long after his death he is instantly recognizable the world around.   Ringo, not so much.

MJ's fame was rightfully diminished with the kiddie didling... I want to say allegations, IDK if he was ever convicted.

[Underdog 28585]

That's a damn good question, kid has upper mgmt. written all over them. 

[Deej 76756]

38 minutes ago, locodos said:

Elvis

The Beatles split fame between the four of them.  Elvis was a solo icon.  Even long after his death he is instantly recognizable the world around.   Ringo, not so much.

MJ's fame was rightfully diminished with the kiddie didling... I want to say allegations, IDK if he was ever convicted.

 

[jimmyjazz 45893]

43 minutes ago, locodos said:

MJ's fame was rightfully diminished with the kiddie didling... 

How can fame be "diminished"?  His legacy can be stained, but at his peak MJ was the biggest star in the world, and probably my answer to this question.

[ztejas 43414]

The Beatles - no contest. 

Michael Jackson made the best music, however. 

[59 Burst 434]

For what it’s worth. The Beatles had 20 number 1 hits according to Billboard, Jackson had 13 with Elvis at 7. 

[ztejas 43414]

2 hours ago, locodos said:

The Beatles split fame between the four of them.  Elvis was a solo icon.  Even long after his death he is instantly recognizable the world around.   Ringo, not so much.

What the fuck does this have to do with the question? It's who was the most popular act. 

[Rimbo 25915]

Neither Elvis nor Michael Jackson had the legit mania that followed the Beatles around. To this day, no other band has had as profound an impact on popular music.

Jackson sold a lot of records, had a LOT of great songs (mostly written by Quincy Jones) and was a God-tier dancer.

Elvis will never be known as a great songwriter, but he was a legendary performer and had a near-religious following (IYKYK the "Elvis is not really dead" shit from the 1980s).

It's the Beatles, and it's not even close.

Edited March 5 by Rimbo

[ztejas 43414]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

Neither Elvis nor Michael Jackson had the legit mania that followed the Beatles around.

That's not true at all.

But I agree that it's The Beatles and it isn't close. 

Edited March 5 by ztejas

[Rimbo 25915]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

That's not true at all.

They had mania, sure. So did Duran Duran. But not at the level of Beatlemania.

[ztejas 43414]

Just now, Rimbo said:

They had mania, sure. So did Duran Duran. But not at the level of Beatlemania.

You leave Duran Duran out of this. 

I think we agree, btw. Just taking a bit of umbrage with the way you phrased it. 

[Deej 76756]

8 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Neither Elvis nor Michael Jackson had the legit mania that followed the Beatles around. To this day, no other band has had as profound an impact on popular music.

Jackson sold a lot of records, had a LOT of great songs (mostly written by Quincy Jones) and was a God-tier dancer.

Elvis will never be known as a great songwriter, but he was a legendary performer and had a near-religious following (IYKYK the "Elvis is not really dead" shit from the 1980s).

It's the Beatles, and it's not even close.

Taylor Swift has a mania that follows her and her music sucks. 

[Paul Wesley 3278]

Here’s a data point:  viewers of their appearance on Ed Sullivan:

1956 Elvis

72% of US homes had a TV

60 million viewers

—-

1964 Beatles

92% of US homes had a TV

73 million viewers

 

 

Does not control for total population, but just eyeballing those numbers…

It’s Elvis   

 

Again, that’s just one data point, but that’s a pretty fair apples to apples, I think.  
 

We’re also looking at different eras… the world changed a LOT from peak Elvis to peak Beatles to peak Michael (who I would say peaked with MTV airing “Thriller” every hour).

[locodos 5387]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

How can fame be "diminished"?  His legacy can be stained, but at his peak MJ was the biggest star in the world, and probably my answer to this question.

He is not celebrated like he would have been if not for his predilections.

[ztejas 43414]

3 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

Does not control for total population, but just eyeballing those numbers…

It’s Elvis   

And as we all know - America is the greatest and therefore only country in the world. 

Just now, locodos said:

He is not celebrated like he would have been if not for his predilections.

Meh. I don't give a fuck. I've heard compelling arguments on both sides. I think there are quite a few folks like me. 

[locodos 5387]

20 minutes ago, ztejas said:

What the fuck does this have to do with the question? It's who was the most popular act. 

 

[locodos 5387]

18 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Neither Elvis nor Michael Jackson had the legit mania that followed the Beatles around.

Tha fuck you say?   Jesus man, girls/women were fainting at his feet long before the beatles played their first note.

I was NOT an Elvis fan.  I can remember clearly the day he died, the nation stopped.   Lennon not so much.  Clearly mourned, but not like the KING

[Rimbo 25915]

18 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think we agree, btw. Just taking a bit of umbrage with the way you phrased it. 

Fair enough. Been a long day.

Just now, locodos said:

I was NOT an Elvis fan.  I can remember clearly the day he died, the nation stopped.   Lennon not so much.  Clearly mourned, but not like the KING

Well, I mean, Elvis was a really cool guy. Lennon was a cunt.

[locodos 5387]

3 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Fair enough. Been a long day.

Well, I mean, Elvis was a really cool guy. Lennon was a cunt.

Lennon was the Beatles, come at me bro!

[locodos 5387]

14 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Meh. I don't give a fuck. I've heard compelling arguments on both sides. I think there are quite a few folks like me. 

In middle school, I had his stupid jacket and one glove.  Speak for yourself on the way people think about his legacy.   Best thing about Thriller was EVH solo.  Fuck kiddie didlers!

[ztejas 43414]

3 minutes ago, locodos said:

Speak for yourself on the way people think about his legacy.

That's literally what I was doing. 

Are you like 9 drinks deep right now?

[Deej 76756]

13 minutes ago, locodos said:

Tha fuck you say?   Jesus man, girls/women were fainting at his feet long before the beatles played their first note.

I was NOT an Elvis fan.  I can remember clearly the day he died, the nation stopped.   Lennon not so much.  Clearly mourned, but not like the KING

Michael Jackson died and everyone with half a brain thought...

[locodos 5387]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

That's literally what I was doing. 

Are you like 9 drinks deep right now?

6 but who's counting...   

24 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 I think there are quite a few folks like me. 

Good thing you're not speaking for other people, my bad

[jimmyjazz 45893]

30 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

Here’s a data point:  viewers of their appearance on Ed Sullivan:

1956 Elvis

72% of US homes had a TV

60 million viewers

—-

1964 Beatles

92% of US homes had a TV

73 million viewers

I'd like to see what the Ed Sullivan numbers were on average, though.  There were very few options back then.  Almost everybody watched Ed Sullivan every week, regardless of guest.

[ztejas 43414]

10 minutes ago, locodos said:

6 but who's counting...   

Good thing you're not speaking for other people, my bad

I don't give a fuck if people think MJ was a pedo and hate him - I'm just saying I think a lot of us don't really care. 

[Rimbo 25915]

44 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You leave Duran Duran out of this

I will never leave Duran Duran out.

 

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd like to see what the Ed Sullivan numbers were on average, though.  There were very few options back then.  Almost everybody watched Ed Sullivan every week, regardless of guest.

Also, if you want to answer The Question, you gotta take the whole world into account.

Elvis was big in the USA. MJ and The Beatles were big everywhere. [Weirdly, this is because Elvis' manager was an illegal immigrant who was worried that if he ever left US soil, he wouldn't be allowed back.]

16 minutes ago, Deej said:

Michael Jackson died and everyone with half a brain thought...

Didn't his accuser later admit that his parents pressured him into making it all up?

25 minutes ago, locodos said:

In middle school, I had his stupid jacket and one glove

I had the jacket.

I liked that jacket.

45 minutes ago, Deej said:

Taylor Swift has a mania that follows her and her music sucks. 

What the fuck did you just fucking say about Taylor, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of Swifties across the world and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

nick rhodes could teach andrew tate how to be heterosexual

[Paul Wesley 3278]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd like to see what the Ed Sullivan numbers were on average, though.  There were very few options back then.  Almost everybody watched Ed Sullivan every week, regardless of guest.

Yeah, that’s fair.  
 

But also, how many 15-year old girls - who are arguably the peak demographic of pop culture - were alive for Elvis compared to the Beatles?  

Beatles came along right at the moment that the huge bump in population (boomers) were adolescents, so the wave they surfed was much bigger.   You could take that as an argument for either artist… I’m just saying that the world changed an awful lot in the decade between.  

[ztejas 43414]

2 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Didn't his accuser later admit that his parents pressured him into making it all up?

Like I said, I've heard compelling arguments from both sides.

But I'm also a bit of a conspiracy theorist and free thinker.

[Deej 76756]

23 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Didn't his accuser later admit that his parents pressured him into making it all up

Which one?

[horn4life 3759]

Elvis took black music and made it white, and thus acceptable and reviled.  Jackson was a child that adults took advantage off for money since nearly birth, and brought new music to the masses, with just a dash of pedophilia.  The Beatles took black music and made it white and thus accepted and reviled.

And Robert Johnson just intimated that the Devil made him do it,,, but he was different from the others in that he was original.

Only one was truly original, the others were copy cats... Odd to say that Elvis, Jackson and the Beatles were copy cats.  But if you want to give your son  the honest answer? That not one of the "popular" artists mentioned did not build their careers except by emulating guys like Robert Johnson. So I would rephrase the question!  Would you like to know where all that popular music originated from little FTC?

 

[WelfareBuysMyWeed 5388]

Zamfir has sold more records than the beatles. Makes better music, too.

 

Edited March 5 by WelfareBuysMyWeed

[Steamboat1874 4051]

13 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

Here’s a data point:  viewers of their appearance on Ed Sullivan:

1956 Elvis

72% of US homes had a TV

60 million viewers

—-

1964 Beatles

92% of US homes had a TV

73 million viewers

 

 

Does not control for total population, but just eyeballing those numbers…

It’s Elvis   

 

Again, that’s just one data point, but that’s a pretty fair apples to apples, I think.  
 

We’re also looking at different eras… the world changed a LOT from peak Elvis to peak Beatles to peak Michael (who I would say peaked with MTV airing “Thriller” every hour).

How do those numbers translate to "It's Elvis" ?

[Paul Wesley 3278]

1 hour ago, Steamboat1874 said:

How do those numbers translate to "It's Elvis" ?

Beatles played to an America where 28% more households had a TV.  But the Beatles' audience was only 22% bigger than Elvis'.  

And that doesn't even account for the fact that the Beatles' *potential* audience was WAY bigger - by maybe 20 million people, AND thanks to the post-war baby boom, they had a much bigger % of that bigger audience who were teens.  

TV viewership just seemed like an easy and fair metric for "popular."  If the question is "most influential," I agree it's the Beatles.  

If we wanted to compare their number of #1 hits, Elvis is going to do very poorly.  Consider that he was drafted and joined the army a mere 2 years post Ed Sullivan, and then his manager sent him off to Hollywood for a decade of schlock and cringe.  

The 2018 documentary "Elvis the Searcher" on HBO spent a lot of time on this, and I think that's the lens I've always seen him through:  he was gorgeous, he had an A+ voice, he was charismatic, he brought a new genre to Americans in a way that a single person has never done before or since.  He had the most widely recognized name on the planet for a time... and then he just sort of pissed it away, he missed out on the musical explosion of the 60's, and he returned as a fat drug addict in a sequined jumpsuit, and since America loves nothing more than a profound fall from a really high place, he was the punchline of a million jokes from that day forward.   

 

[Paul Wesley 3278]

* I'm aware that the "new" genre that Elvis brought to Americans was a straight-up ripoff of black music.  You could write a pretty persuasive thesis statement that every *new* American genre of music since the Civil War followed exactly that same pattern.