Latinos and politics

[Pancho 44860]

I get it—Latinos aren’t a monolith just like Blacks aren’t. But I just saw a TikTok that made me think I’ve heard of similar sayings from Latinos before. An immigrant was being interviewed and was asked the question “Trump or Biden” and he answers “Trump.” His answer, though, was that essentially Trump winning means no more immigrants. He even said in the interview “I know I’m an immigrant,  but he winning means no more.” The interviewer said “So you came in but no more?” And he replied with “Exactly.”

WTF? Where does this mindset come from? I’ve heard it more than once. But it’s similar to Black conservatives/republicans who don’t want to be “associated with those Black people.” Is it the same thinking here for Latinos? Why aren’t more sympathetic to the plight of immigrants when many Latinos here in America have similar stories somewhere in their family history?

[BrickHorn 18237]

Many people are just selfish assholes to their core. 

Edited March 8 by BrickHorn

['stache 21822]

I know there are pockets of deeply cultural Hispanics who are third or fourth generation in the US and hate immigrants because they think they’re special because their ancestors came here when nobody cared, or who were in Texas when taken by the US (we didn’t cross the border the border crossed us). Drives me crazy. I’m in the border crossed us class but I believe anyone who wants to come here and work and follow the law should be allowed to do so.

[Prepuce of Doom 21085]

This base hypocrisy is also endemic among Cuban refugees in Miami, who appear to be almost totally devoid of any ability to meaningfully take the perspective of others, or experience anything approaching cognitive dissonance.

Crabs in a bucket. 

Edited March 8 by Prepuce of Doom

[956 Worldwide 34718]

This comes from a lot places because as you said Latinos aren’t a block.  A multigenerational Tejano in Cameron or Webb County functionally treats the issue as no different than a gringo. 

There are serious self-interest reasons though.  We need to get real as a country that immigration is a net benefit but that it comes with real issues for real people.  And recent immigrants or second generation  are likely to feel those in a way that people in a different strata don’t:

- If you or your close family work in blue collar jobs, newer immigrants are economic competition 

- If you are sending your kids to schools with a lot of new immigrant kids then you are competing for resources— very few white collar folks are in schools where electives got canceled but another ESL section got created but you’re likely to be if you are close to the immigrant experience. 

- If you’re dependent on public and county health services or the ER and seeing longer wait times, etc. 

It’s not as simple as “fuck them, I got mine.” We will never tackle this issue through a binary frame of good vs. bad, we have to accept that immigration benefits us as a nation while causing very really social stresses and competition for some real people who are going to react like humans always do. We are better off trying to manage that than lecture people out of it. 

Edited March 8 by 956 Worldwide

[Mo Horn 8850]

Mrs Mo is Latina from the RGV and her grandmother was born in Mexico so truly an immigrant family. Many in her family are some of the most right wing folks around. I grew up in there as well and know many others the same way. I truly think it's a "I got mine, but you're not going to come get yours" mentality. It's crazy.

I have also traveled a lot in Mexico, Central, and South America and the bigotry that exists between countries and regions is crazy. I think that plays into this a well. I'm Mexican and immigrated, but I'll be damned if some worthless Honduran is going to. 

[chainsaw 9870]

Without immigrants the US will crumble. We are not able to meet the labor demands with our native-born population.

[Pancho 44860]

23 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Mrs Mo is Latina from the RGV and her grandmother was born in Mexico so truly an immigrant family. Many in her family are some of the most right wing folks around. I grew up in there as well and know many others the same way. I truly think it's a "I got mine, but you're not going to come get yours" mentality. It's crazy.

I have also traveled a lot in Mexico, Central, and South America and the bigotry that exists between countries and regions is crazy. I think that plays into this a well. I'm Mexican and immigrated, but I'll be damned if some worthless Honduran is going to. 

You bringing this up reminded me of a conversation i had with someone from Ecuador about 15 years ago. We were in Florida, and my dumbass just assumed he was Mexican because he was Brown. When he corrected me, he said something along the lines of Mexico is the trash of Latin countries. All other Latin countries basically look down on Mexico/Mexicans. 

I just…had no words mostly because I had no idea.

[Born to Run 6569]

Except a lot of Mexicans look down on Central Americans. A lot of Northern Mexicans are racist towards Southern Mexicans.

Also a lot of Hispanics in Texas like Ranch culture and shooting guns on the weekend. One of my painters fits this perfectly, and he's a legitimate moron. I had to tell him to stop wearing Trump shit as some clients don't care for it. Just a happy idiot.

[Js1 85426]

I mean, as we saw in 20/22, Texas Latinos are not like Florida ones (Cubans) or Arizona Latinos or NM Latinos or California Latinos or NY Latinos. Texas and FL Latinos are just more conservative, just like the state. 

[chainsaw 9870]

Some of them are conservative, some of them are moderate, and some of them are leftist. It depends a lot on their economic class and whether they are college educated.

Here's a life hack: disregard the fact that they are Latino. The distribution of "conservative" and "not conservative" will be basically the same as it is for non-Latinos, with maybe a 3-5 point shift to the left due to the fact that the GOP has opted for an explicitly racist platform that targets Latinos.

[BevoAbyss 2059]

Y'all are leaving out the elephant in the room: religion (Whatever brand of church along the border). 

Fundamentalist Franklin Graham is doing evangelical tour all along the US-Mexico Border. 

https://bigbendsentinel.com/2024/03/06/franklin-grahams-god-loves-you-tour-makes-a-stop-in-presidio/

Bottom line: Religious believers are generally much more conservative (though not all believers) on many issues (abortion, etc.) and those vote R.  Especially in Texas.

I guarantee there ain't no "liberal-leftist-democrat" or "Science Loves You" tour along the border! 

 

Edited March 8 by BevoAbyss

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

 

I don't know if this is a factor or not, but I lived in the RGV for four years. Just about everybody down there has a relative, brother, uncle, close friend, whatever, who is employed by the border patrol. For a kid straight out of high school who speaks Spanish, the BP is a damn good job. 

If BP is paying the bills, putting your primo through college, paying for your truck, how are you going to support immigration or immigrants?

 

 

[chainsaw 9870]

1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

I don't know if this is a factor or not, but I lived in the RGV for four years. Just about everybody down there has a relative, brother, uncle, close friend, whatever, who is employed by the border patrol. For a kid straight out of high school who speaks Spanish, the BP is a damn good job. 

If BP is paying the bills, putting your primo through college, paying for your truck, how are you going to support immigration or immigrants?

 

 

It's a factor for sure, but it hasn't changed that much of the politics along the border. Still solidly blue.

[SydneyCarton 48111]

15 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

I don't know if this is a factor or not, but I lived in the RGV for four years. Just about everybody down there has a relative, brother, uncle, close friend, whatever, who is employed by the border patrol. For a kid straight out of high school who speaks Spanish, the BP is a damn good job. 

If BP is paying the bills, putting your primo through college, paying for your truck, how are you going to support immigration or immigrants?

 

 

I get what you're saying, but the border bill languishing in the house right now calls for hiring and large increases in funding for Border Patrol. 

[tx 3 putt 77103]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I get what you're saying, but the border bill languishing in the house right now calls for hiring and large increases in funding for Border Patrol. 

less cartel bribes to go around

[dcbc 14492]

I've had two anecdotes related to me from two different Latina friends: (1) as it relates to non-voting, the person just didn't think it would make any difference (this likely was as much an product of the person's youth and (2) as it relates to Latinos and Trump, his bullshit somehow equates to a machismo to which they closely relate (no idea whether that's true on a broad scale).

[Js1 85426]

Do not forget the GOP going 110% in on Spanish language radio ads.

[YChang 3455]

It truly is facinating. Classmate from Edinburgh is a small business owner. And as you imagine, votes GOP on everything. But rails on racism, lack of opportunities for people in the valley, wants better education and medical care. Tells me his parents came to the US the right way. In my head, I'm thinking your parents took advantage of an official policy welcoming immigrants back in the day. It's not like they did anything special to apply for citizenship. So proud that his area is turning purple and how they now have Republican representation. But tells me it's politics that's preventing positive policy changes. When I asked him about the infrastructure bill signed by Biden, his reponse was so what, it's never going to reach the valley. Maddening, especially when you remove political beliefs, he's seems genuinely a very kind and caring person. I think GOP voters like him have this weird dichotomy going on all the time in their heads that they don't know how to resolve or choose to ignore right now. 

[Foosters 17858]

I can't think of a more appropriate "Leopards Eating People's Faces" moment than voting for a guy who has a platform that will retroactively seek to strip you of US citizenship and put you on a plane to a country you've never been to.

Edited March 8 by Foosters

[Js1 85426]

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

I can't think of a more appropriate "Leopards Eating People's Faces" moment than voting for a guy who has a platform that will retroactively seek to strip you of US citizenship and put you on a plane to a country you've never been to.

No, they'll only go after *THOSE* people.  And they'll keep saying that as they're being dragged from their homes or businesses or churches to be deported.

[Brisketexan 105160]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Do not forget the GOP going 110% in on Spanish language radio ads.

A lot of this.

Why in the BABY BLUE FUCK Dems or some Dem PAC isn't saturating the Spanish-language airwaves with messages of "Donald Trump doesn't care if you are here legally -- he wants to deport you.  He wants to deport your abuela.  And he and Greg Abbott want any State Trooper to be able to decide to deport you.  They don't care that the law says you can be here, that you are a good person who works hard.  They want to get rid of you because of who you are.  Be sure to vote to get rid of them, for good.  Protect your abuela!"  Is that hyperbole?  Only a little bit - and a lot less so than the shit the GQP is peddling.  Hit back, and hit back hard.  The GQP is motivating voters with fear of the abstract.  Fuck that.  Hit them with shit they need to fear FOR REAL*.

* Oh, and it actually IS for real.  People like my dad, who was born on this side of the goddamned river, have had their citizenship - and thus their right to even stay in the country of their birth - challenged by the Trump admin when it was in power.  And Steven Miller has pledged to be even more draconian if Trump wins again:

Quote

A growing number of Hispanics along the Texas-Mexico border with birth records showing they were born in the United States are being denied US passports, held in immigration detention centers, and entered into deportation proceedings, immigration attorneys and individuals affected told the Washington Post.

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

They’re just as dumb as the white poor who vote for billionaire tax cuts 

We are just full of the dumbest people 

[tx 3 putt 77103]

My South Texas take - it all goes back to latinos voting for who their anglo bosses / land owners tell them to vote for. Latinos wanted their approval and praise. Latino kids grew up seeing that and hearing how important it was to do what you’re told to do. It doesn’t matter who wins anyway,  but that pat on the back is everything 
 

Present day - latinos want to be seen as equals / peers with the anglos. South Texas anglos love trump, latinos follow along to get that approval and praise, that pat on the back. Looooot of o/g service companies down there, anglos own the vast majority. Anglo owner is puro trump, his employees are puro trump for that pat on the back

without saying much, I've been around / involved South Texas R races. Anglo owners of multiple rent houses, still go around and count votes, tell their tenants to request absentee ballots and fill them out for them. Those dirty Mexicans can’t be trusted to show up on election days 

[Brisketexan 105160]

4 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

They’re just as dumb as the white poor who vote for billionaire tax cuts 

We are just full of the dumbest people 

 

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

My South Texas take - it all goes back to latinos voting for who their anglo bosses / land owners tell them to vote for. Latinos wanted their approval and praise. Latino kids grew up seeing that and hearing how important it was to do what you’re told to do. It doesn’t matter who wins anyway,  but that pat on the back is everything 
 

Present day - latinos want to be seen as equals / peers with the anglos. South Texas anglos love trump, latinos follow along to get that approval and praise, that pat on the back. Looooot of o/g service companies down there, anglos own the vast majority. Anglo owner is puro trump, his employees are puro trump for that pat on the back

without saying much, I've been around / involved South Texas R races. Anglo owners of multiple rent houses, still go around and count votes, tell their tenants to request absentee ballots and fill them out for them. Those dirty Mexicans can’t be trusted to show up on election days 

Both of these posts are spot-on.

I mean, based on how they end up voting, when Trump bellows "Mexico isn't sending it's best!", I end up looking around at these folks, including some family members who still speak with a fucking accent, and I'm all...

[StassneyHorn 6617]

2020 Exit polling in Texas to put some data behind guesses

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/texas/7

[The Original Greaser Bob 2841]

3 hours ago, Pancho said:

WTF? Where does this mindset come from?

Being a human?

[Prepuce of Doom 21085]

29 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

My South Texas take - it all goes back to latinos voting for who their anglo bosses / land owners tell them to vote for. Latinos wanted their approval and praise. Latino kids grew up seeing that and hearing how important it was to do what you’re told to do. It doesn’t matter who wins anyway,  but that pat on the back is everything 

I don't know enough about colonialism specifically (or history generally, to be honest) but I have long wondered whether and how any cultural history of colonization by Spain seems to play into this type of flawed (from my perspective, at least) thinking, reasoning, motivation, internal-justification-of-hypocrisy, pleasing of the master and hierarchical subjugation of perceived inferiors, etc. 

Edited March 8 by Prepuce of Doom

[The Original Greaser Bob 2841]

2 hours ago, Born to Run said:

Also a lot of Hispanics in Texas like Ranch culture and shooting guns on the weekend.

This is it.  Those dudes are all for trump because of guns.   QED.

That's why Texan Dems need Roland Gutierrez types and lots of photos of the deer or wild hog they just shot.

 

[Deej 76836]

My Hispanic neighbor told me he disliked the immigrant Hispanic neighbors because he gets lumped in with them because he's brown, and that their behaviors reflected badly on him. 

 

 

[Js1 85426]

8 minutes ago, Deej said:

My Hispanic neighbor told me he disliked the immigrant Hispanic neighbors because he gets lumped in with them because he's brown, and that their behaviors reflected badly on him. 

 

 

That’s fair. I’m white and don’t like being lumped in with MAGA and their behaviors 

[mchookem 16337]

3 hours ago, Born to Run said:

Also a lot of Hispanics in Texas like Ranch culture and shooting guns on the weekend. One of my painters fits this perfectly, and he's a legitimate moron. I had to tell him to stop wearing Trump shit as some clients don't care for it. Just a happy idiot.

i recall in 2020 some analysis of the latino vote in Texas in particular (like how that one county turned red) and one of the points was that Hispanics in the RGV identify very specifically with being TEXAN above all else, which in turn leads to the 'maga' mindset. 🙄

[956 Worldwide 34718]

The scope here seems to have widened from immigration and new immigrants attitudes to talking more about why the 956 is drifting purple.  
 

I have lots of thoughts but the bottom line is that the valley is a damn near ethnically homogenous, high-trust, traditional community. GOP border stuff and racism (along, a bit, with some social programs) is the REASON it’s not solidly red. It’s a conservative place and while there’s some legacy of racism— the entire social strata from business owner and banker on down is brown. 
 

They do not view themselves as oppressed minorities or structurally kept down, those towns and counties are just theirs. The culture wars and summer of anger over policing and race did not play  into the progressives’ favor. The cops and government are all your cousins and siblings.  They are going to come down on the law and order side every time. And that’s not because of Franklin Graham. 

[956 Worldwide 34718]

6 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i recall in 2020 some analysis of the latino vote in Texas in particular (like how that one county turned red) and one of the points was that Hispanics in the RGV identify very specifically with being TEXAN above all else, which in turn leads to the 'maga' mindset. 🙄

There’s a Nat Geo article that explains that valley Tejanos are more Texan than any other Texan. 

[CowboyFred 1151]

4 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

Mrs Mo is Latina from the RGV and her grandmother was born in Mexico so truly an immigrant family. Many in her family are some of the most right wing folks around. I grew up in there as well and know many others the same way. I truly think it's a "I got mine, but you're not going to come get yours" mentality. It's crazy.

I have also traveled a lot in Mexico, Central, and South America and the bigotry that exists between countries and regions is crazy. I think that plays into this a well. I'm Mexican and immigrated, but I'll be damned if some worthless Honduran is going to. 

This is what it comes down to. Many of those who immigrated here want to pick up the ladder behind them.  It’s a fucked up way to think but sadly it’s prevalent in the Latino community. 

[F250 28785]

4 hours ago, Pancho said:

WTF? Where does this mindset come from? I’ve heard it more than once. But it’s similar to Black conservatives/republicans who don’t want to be “associated with those Black people.”

 

Years ago, I heard a couple African-Americans talk a lot of shit about Afro-Puerto Ricans. I once had a Nigerian cab driver who spent the entire drive talking crazy shit about African-Americans. That dude was dropping the N word in every other sentence. Then on the same trip, I had a different cab driver that was an old African-American man talk shit about Nigerians.

While I understood the cultural differences it still seemed bizarre to me. I suspect those outside the Latino community recognize that there are a lot of differences within the Latino community but struggle to understand that the community is just as diverse as whites.

[Js1 85426]

Just now, F250 said:

 

Years ago, I heard a couple African-Americans talk a lot of shit about Afro-Puerto Ricans. I once had a Nigerian cab driver who spent the entire drive talking crazy shit about African-Americans. That dude was dropping the N word in every other sentence. Then on the same trip, I had a different cab driver that was an old African-American man talk shit about Nigerians.

While I understood the cultural differences it still seemed bizarre to me. I suspect those outside the Latino community recognize that there are a lot of differences within the Latino community but struggle to understand that the community is just as diverse as whites.

From the outside you can't understand it...

[RDCanecutter 26453]

They have multiple political parties in Mexico, and also in other countries I imagine. Makes sense that once people put down roots in the US they'd support different parties here as well.

[Satchel 6938]

I still dont get how a majority of Latinos can be so pro Catholic Church and alternately anti immigrant.

[HornOnTheBayou 8934]

9 hours ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

I don't know enough about colonialism specifically (or history generally, to be honest) but I have long wondered whether and how any cultural history of colonization by Spain seems to play into this type of flawed (from my perspective, at least) thinking, reasoning, motivation, internal-justification-of-hypocrisy, pleasing of the master and hierarchical subjugation of perceived inferiors, etc. 

Spanish colonization did lead to the fragmentation of Latin America (see @Pancho's post above about Mexicans talking shit about Hondurans). Simon Bolivar tried to bring all those groups together during the independence movements of the 1800s, but it didn't work.

[Surly Bevo 25057]

Shit Mexicans in Mexico City talk shit about Mexicans who don't live in Mexico City.  Don't have to be from another country to get scorn and disdain.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

13 hours ago, Pancho said:

I get it—Latinos aren’t a monolith just like Blacks aren’t. But I just saw a TikTok that made me think I’ve heard of similar sayings from Latinos before. An immigrant was being interviewed and was asked the question “Trump or Biden” and he answers “Trump.” His answer, though, was that essentially Trump winning means no more immigrants. He even said in the interview “I know I’m an immigrant,  but he winning means no more.” The interviewer said “So you came in but no more?” And he replied with “Exactly.”

WTF? Where does this mindset come from? I’ve heard it more than once. But it’s similar to Black conservatives/republicans who don’t want to be “associated with those Black people.” Is it the same thinking here for Latinos? Why aren’t more sympathetic to the plight of immigrants when many Latinos here in America have similar stories somewhere in their family history?

Many people, once they get theirs, want to pull the ladder up behind them.

Oh, I see that’s already been mentioned. But it happens in every community.

For example, my dad attended med school at tOSU. He donated a lot of money to the school over his lifetime. Late in life he was recognized along with a few other lifetime donors with a banquet downtown. Each had prepared a video statement about their relationship with the university. My dad mentioned how important it was that his education was affordable. He came from modest means and being able to put himself through med school was critical to his ability to elevate himself and his family. So what did he do? He devoted his life to the support of the Republican Party who, since 1980, has done everything they can to put the education he received out of reach of the next WhatTheBuck Sr. He made sure that if he had been born 3O years later, he wouldn’t have had the same opportunities.

Such shortsightedness. 

[tx 3 putt 77103]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

I still dont get how a majority of Latinos can be so pro Catholic Church and alternately anti immigrant.

selfish, and they’re only catholic on the outside (to look good)

rotten to the core

[tx 3 putt 77103]

56 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Spanish colonization did lead to the fragmentation of Latin America (see @Pancho's post above about Mexicans talking shit about Hondurans). Simon Bolivar tried to bring all those groups together during the independence movements of the 1800s, but it didn't work.

the next day this started - mexicans claiming to be of spanish heritage 

Edited March 9 by tx 3 putt

[Slacks 6821]

Los Sneetches

[DigglerontheHoof 21204]

9 hours ago, Satchel said:

I still dont get how a majority of Latinos can be so pro Catholic Church and alternately anti immigrant.

Because the "Church" and Christianity have nothing to do with morality or goodness.  It's all about power and control.  Church goers are shit regardless of race or culture. 

[956 Worldwide 34718]

9 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Spanish colonization did lead to the fragmentation of Latin America (see @Pancho's post above about Mexicans talking shit about Hondurans). Simon Bolivar tried to bring all those groups together during the independence movements of the 1800s, but it didn't work.

I am pretty sure that Latin America was adequately fractured with wars and empires and slaves and everything before the Spanish came poking around. 

Edited March 9 by 956 Worldwide

[Neonmoon 38129]

11 hours ago, Satchel said:

I still dont get how a majority of Latinos can be so pro Catholic Church and alternately anti immigrant.

The only Christians in the United States are the ones serving the poor soup on a cold morning. Everyone else is just playing dress up. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19206]

21 hours ago, Js1 said:

That’s fair. I’m white and don’t like being lumped in with MAGA and their behaviors 

As a middle-aged white dude that works in O&G, I feel you fam.  But I do find it amazing what vile shit others in my orbit will say out loud because they assume I'm on their side.

[Nivek 16945]

22 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

A lot of this.

Why in the BABY BLUE FUCK Dems or some Dem PAC isn't saturating the Spanish-language airwaves with messages of "Donald Trump doesn't care if you are here legally -- he wants to deport you.  He wants to deport your abuela.  And he and Greg Abbott want any State Trooper to be able to decide to deport you.  They don't care that the law says you can be here, that you are a good person who works hard.  They want to get rid of you because of who you are.  Be sure to vote to get rid of them, for good.  Protect your abuela!"  Is that hyperbole?  Only a little bit - and a lot less so than the shit the GQP is peddling.  Hit back, and hit back hard.  The GQP is motivating voters with fear of the abstract.  Fuck that.  Hit them with shit they need to fear FOR REAL*.

* Oh, and it actually IS for real.  People like my dad, who was born on this side of the goddamned river, have had their citizenship - and thus their right to even stay in the country of their birth - challenged by the Trump admin when it was in power.  And Steven Miller has pledged to be even more draconian if Trump wins again:

 

It is slightly more complicated than that.  Many people fleeing from autocratic regimes affiliate them with the left-wing and thus have a visceral knee-jerk reaction to the part without any messaging being involved.  They see the left as a path to the Maduro/Castro/Chavez regimes and so they will just vote for the right by default.  

I knew a lady who grew up in the USSR but became a Republican, and thought the Left would lead to socialism/authoritarianism because the right fought against them.   She knew a bit about history but it was not all factual.  Coming here she didn't bother to relearn history, she had morons who talked like they were informed to share things with her.