The Acolyte (Star Wars Disney+ show)

[LCHorn 2615]

2 hours ago, Red Five said:

Not defending it in any way, but they didn't have much to work with. At the end of the second movie of the sequel trilogy, Han, Luke, and the main bad guy were all dead. Well, and Carrie Fisher. They almost had to start over. 

I’m an unabashed defender of The Last Jedi  and one of the things I liked best about it was that it wiped the slate clean for the next film maker.  You had two films gradually leaving the old trilogies main characters.  Film 3 was ready to stand on its own.  
 

Instead it became a really bad JJ Adam’s film that pandered so hard to fans of the original trilogy that it reeked of inauthenticity.  It’s like they started first with “let’s make a list of all the shit the fans like” and then wrote the script from that. 

[Levi 2585]

2 hours ago, Red Five said:

Not defending it in any way, but they didn't have much to work with. At the end of the second movie of the sequel trilogy, Han, Luke, and the main bad guy were all dead. Well, and Carrie Fisher. They almost had to start over. 

I think they should have went straight to Kylo being the singular bad guy after Snoke. We’ve never seen a Skywalker or a descendent of the family be the ultimate leader of the opposition to the rebels. All we heard of to this point was something to the effect of “join me and we can rule the galaxy together”. Driver has the acting ability to make Kylo go really dark, or more conflicted than Anakin was. He ultimately redeems himself in the end like his grandfather before him (its like poetry, it rhymes), the Skywalker saga comes to a close and Rey starts all over with a new Jedi order.  

[Red Five 40846]

7 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I’m an unabashed defender of The Last Jedi

Jesus. 

[Speedtrucker 2071]

This dude started popping up on my X feed…
Jesus he must be getting paid by the acolyte. He’s opinions are everything the Acolyte and TLS are the greatest ever. Period

[Surly Bevo 24908]

This dude started popping up on my X feed…
Jesus he must be getting paid by the acolyte. He’s opinions are everything the Acolyte and TLS are the greatest ever. Period

Or the half of America that is below median intelligence has access to Twitter as well.

[billfromlaketravis 11448]

I think I’ve seen The Force Awakens twice. Once in theaters and once at home. It’s a deeply flawed film, but it does contain member berries and the favorite scene in the sequels. The light saber fight in the snow between Kylo, Finn, and Rey. 

[52-80 19147]

1 hour ago, Speedtrucker said:

Jesus he must be getting paid by the acolyte. He’s opinions are everything the Acolyte and TLS are the greatest ever. Period

When I'm in a screening at a public theater, I always have a picture of it taken by a 3rd party, and the theater is always lit

[ChickenSandwich 9829]

2 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I think I’ve seen The Force Awakens twice. Once in theaters and once at home. It’s a deeply flawed film, but it does contain member berries and the favorite scene in the sequels. The light saber fight in the snow between Kylo, Finn, and Rey. 

Falcon scene was nice too

[Hank_Hill 18794]

8 hours ago, Macklemore said:

 

Not the white male jedi 😩😩😩😩

[atomheartbevo 89630]

2 hours ago, Hank_Hill said:

Not the white male jedi 😩😩😩😩

Anybody triggered by race or gender is probably not the target audience.

The shit writing is the problem, not the cast or characters.

[bolverk 29656]

30 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Not the white male jedi 😩😩😩😩

This dumb show's got 99 problems, and a fat Jedi, a dead white Jedi, women singing, and lesbians ain't none of 'em.

If we're talking about REALISM, here's how I see it:

• On the real Earth, 4 out of every 10 people is overweight/obese.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 12 people is a white male.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 2 is female, and a helluva lot of them like to sing.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 32 people is gay.

On the real Earth, that all translates to only about 1 out of every 20 people being a fit straight white human male.

Yet, we, the 5 percent, somehow expect the majority of lead characters in a space opera sold to a diverse global audience to all look and act like us.

Get REAL.

None of that even takes into account that in this Star Wars galaxy, we've been introduced to a multitude of species from hundreds, if not thousands, of planets, each with its own sex parts, biology, cultures, and whatnot.

In that fantasy universe where humanoids are pretty well represented, what's the REALISTIC percentage that should be expected to be a fit, straight white human male? Two, maybe three percent, if that.

Of course, in the real world, I don't expect the composition of characters of an American-based show to reflect all that diversity or for a small percentage of them to be fit, straight white human males.

I only point all this out to show what utterly fucking stupid these whiny crybabies are who complain about lame "identity" shit in a sci-fi fantasy world, expecting it to match their own imaginary (and false) "reality" of the world.

Grow the fuck up. The galaxy doesn't revolve around your pathetic, stingy little fragile ego and its petty grievances unless, of course, you're the Emporer and can shoot blue lightning out of your fingertips.

[Hank_Hill 18794]

Palps gives off pretty bi energy anyway. Lighting fingers are just death inducing away from spirit fingers.

[Levi 2585]

A fat Jedi? May I remind you of Beldorion Hutt. He eventually turned to the dark side too 

[billfromlaketravis 11448]

I’ll tread lightly here. Why does Star Wars need an agenda? Hire the best writers, the best actors, the best directors, tell an interesting story, and do good work. 

[dcar00 14158]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

This dumb show's got 99 problems, and a fat Jedi, a dead white Jedi, women singing, and lesbians ain't none of 'em.

If we're talking about REALISM, here's how I see it:

• On the real Earth, 4 out of every 10 people is overweight/obese.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 12 people is a white male.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 2 is female, and a helluva lot of them like to sing.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 32 people is gay.

On the real Earth, that all translates to only about 1 out of every 20 people being a fit straight white human male.

Yet, we, the 5 percent, somehow expect the majority of lead characters in a space opera sold to a diverse global audience to all look and act like us.

Get REAL.

None of that even takes into account that in this Star Wars galaxy, we've been introduced to a multitude of species from hundreds, if not thousands, of planets, each with its own sex parts, biology, cultures, and whatnot.

In that fantasy universe where humanoids are pretty well represented, what's the REALISTIC percentage that should be expected to be a fit, straight white human male? Two, maybe three percent, if that.

Of course, in the real world, I don't expect the composition of characters of an American-based show to reflect all that diversity or for a small percentage of them to be fit, straight white human males.

I only point all this out to show what utterly fucking stupid these whiny crybabies are who complain about lame "identity" shit in a sci-fi fantasy world, expecting it to match their own imaginary (and false) "reality" of the world.

Grow the fuck up. The galaxy doesn't revolve around your pathetic, stingy little fragile ego and its petty grievances unless, of course, you're the Emporer and can shoot blue lightning out of your fingertips.

someone takes Star Wars VERY seriously.

[bolverk 29656]

12 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I’ll tread lightly here. Why does Star Wars need an agenda?

Their "agenda" is to make money from a diverse, global audience. Most people like to see themselves represented on the screen. You'll likely make less money if your primary characters represent only five percent of the total audience. Hell, even in America, less than a third of the population is made up of white males of all ages, and the majority of the kids don't give a shit about these identity grievances.

The smarter play is to diversify your cast, even if it hurts the feelings of a few butthurt middle-aged white guys (and at least one stupid Persian) who want to go back to a time when they called all the shots and didn't have to share their toys action figures.

These people need to grow the fuck up and stop whinging like little tittybabies because, SHOCKING, there are now lesbians and fat dudes in space. Of the hundreds and hundreds of characters in all the Star Wars shows, how many of them have ever been represented? Hell, one of the witchy lesbians isn't even human, but no one seems to have a problem with interspecies procreation or consider that her lady parts might work differently in this fantasy galaxy.

 

As a straight middle-aged white male myself, this is all I give a shit about. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

Quote

 

Hire the best writers, the best actors, the best directors, tell an interesting story, and do good work.

 

On the other hand, they seem to have failed at this part of making the show so far. Let's see if the overall story comes along. Hopefully, it gets better, but I'm not optimistic.

[bolverk 29656]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

someone takes Star Wars VERY seriously.

Just the opposite. I enjoy the entertainment for what it is: a sci-fi fantasy story.

However, I do take bigotry (open or veiled) rather seriously.

[dcar00 14158]

19 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Just the opposite. I enjoy the entertainment for what it is: a sci-fi fantasy story.

However, I do take bigotry (open or veiled) rather seriously.

why would you care what people think about some star wars show and the characters

[ChickenSandwich 9829]

Is it wrong to admit your core audience for a space ninja, space wizard and spaceship heavy product is male?

 

Men love frickin lasers. 
 

[LCHorn 2615]

14 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Their "agenda" is to make money from a diverse, global audience. Most people like to see themselves represented on the screen

I’m sure to regret treading in these waters, but I would rebut that alienating your core fans, however insulated and fragile they have revealed themselves to be, in the hopes of expanding the audience to consumers who have previously a) enjoyed your product despite the fact they didn’t see racial/gender characters more closely resembling themselves or b) ignored your product because they don’t particularly care for the genre trapping doesn’t seem good business.

Alternatively, the Star Wars movies are westerns that aspire to be Wagnerian Operas or Shakespearean dramas and, if you follow Campbell, hope to tap into the universal subconscious by using universal archetypes.  You shouldn’t need to include a fat jedi in order to cultivate an audience, because your story or characters are familiar in 20 other ways.  Including a fat Jedi, or a bisexual or gay character (if either isn’t in service to the story) just feels like cheap pandering.  Unfortunately, too much of modern entertainment seems to feel like tokenism and I think it immediately rings false.

[dcar00 14158]

3 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I’m sure to regret treading in these waters, but I would rebut that alienating your core fans, however insulated and fragile they have revealed themselves to be, in the hopes of expanding the audience to consumers who have previously a) enjoyed your product despite the fact they didn’t see racial/gender characters more closely resembling themselves or b) ignored your product because they don’t particularly care for the genre trapping doesn’t seem good business.

Alternatively, the Star Wars movies are westerns that aspire to be Wagnerian Operas or Shakespearean dramas and, if you follow Campbell, hope to tap into the universal subconscious by using universal archetypes.  You shouldn’t need to include a fat jedi in order to cultivate an audience, because your story or characters are familiar in 20 other ways.  Including a fat Jedi, or a bisexual or gay character (if either isn’t in service to the story) just feels like cheap pandering.  Unfortunately, too much of modern entertainment seems to feel like tokenism and I think it immediately rings false.

you must be a bigot(thinly or fatly veiled)

[rage-a-holic 4382]

17 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I’m sure to regret treading in these waters, but I would rebut that alienating your core fans, however insulated and fragile they have revealed themselves to be, in the hopes of expanding the audience to consumers who have previously a) enjoyed your product despite the fact they didn’t see racial/gender characters more closely resembling themselves or b) ignored your product because they don’t particularly care for the genre trapping doesn’t seem good business.

Alternatively, the Star Wars movies are westerns that aspire to be Wagnerian Operas or Shakespearean dramas and, if you follow Campbell, hope to tap into the universal subconscious by using universal archetypes.  You shouldn’t need to include a fat jedi in order to cultivate an audience, because your story or characters are familiar in 20 other ways.  Including a fat Jedi, or a bisexual or gay character (if either isn’t in service to the story) just feels like cheap pandering.  Unfortunately, too much of modern entertainment seems to feel like tokenism and I think it immediately rings false.

you're a goddamn wife-beating racist cracker 

[Levi 2585]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Their "agenda" is to make money from a diverse, global audience. Most people like to see themselves represented on the screen. You'll likely make less money if your primary characters represent only five percent of the total audience. Hell, even in America, less than a third of the population is made up of white males of all ages, and the majority of the kids don't give a shit about these identity grievances.

The smarter play is to diversify your cast, even if it hurts the feelings of a few butthurt middle-aged white guys (and at least one stupid Persian) who want to go back to a time when they called all the shots and didn't have to share their toys action figures.

These people need to grow the fuck up and stop whinging like little tittybabies because, SHOCKING, there are now lesbians and fat dudes in space. Of the hundreds and hundreds of characters in all the Star Wars shows, how many of them have ever been represented? Hell, one of the witchy lesbians isn't even human, but no one seems to have a problem with interspecies procreation or consider that her lady parts might work differently in this fantasy galaxy.

 

As a straight middle-aged white male myself, this is all I give a shit about. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

On the other hand, they seem to have failed at this part of making the show so far. Let's see if the overall story comes along. Hopefully, it gets better, but I'm not optimistic.

At the same time there is a small but just as loud contingent of fans that automatically assume someone is racist, bigoted or whatever for not liking something, and it’s not because of a show that happens to be diverse.  The fan base has a small and loud subset of groups that like to go at each other and make a mess of the fandom as a whole. I don’t believe this is only a SW problem. Every major franchise deals with the same issues. 

One of the big reasons I like this thread is Surly has a stern unwritten rule to keep political opinions in the cloak room only. You’re simply not going to get that on large social media sites. I think the thread and other SW threads on here do a good job with staying on topic. Maybe we’re also a good representation of the cool majority of the SW fandom. 

[bolverk 29656]

Why would an attempt at some degree of balance alienate the core audience (let's state it plainly: white guys)? Are we so fragile that we can't stand to see other groups in lead roles also on the screen? By and large, no one can say with a straight face that we haven't always been, and likely always will be, overrepresented. 

To your point regarding tokenism, it only feels that way because representation remains unbalanced. Adding a character here or there that represents another group still doesn't achieve it. And, to state explicitly, that isn't on the "agenda". If it were, you'd see far fewer white guys in lead roles than we do now. Again, in the US, less than a third of the audience are white guys. As to the interspecies lesbian couple that had the twins, that may have well been in service to the story. We don't know yet, as their conception story hasn't been fully revealed. If it eventually isn't, then poor writing storytelling is the problem.

And, yes, I am quite familiar with Campbell. Star Wars borrows from a long and ancient, near-universal storytelling tradition.

As far as the box office goes, when the original film was released in 1977 (I saw it as a five-year-old in the theater), global movie distribution was a far different business when film was shipped in cans months after American release compared to today when movies/shows are digitedly distributed worldwide all at once. As such, Hollywood is much more dependent today on the global market where US audiences now commonly comprise only about a third of sales. To that extent, I'm perfectly comfortable with the business case.

Finally, I'll make the case as a dad on Father's Day. It's my duty as the father of a gay kid (I'm certainly not the only on this site) to advocate that my child can see on occasion, no matter how rare, someone like that can also be seen in the Star Wars universe.

[AUS-97HORN 11757]

i know this is going to devolve at some point into two sides sniping at each other.

 

I have loved Star Wars since I was 3 and watching ANH for the first time. and I understand not all things are great in the Star Wars universe.... but holy shit this show has been ass.

 

the force push scene was bad acting.  Actress playing Mom Horney sucks delivering all her lines,

The 1,2,many song scene was fucking terrible. the young twins acting was shit.  and as others have pointed out... how the fuck does stone tile and doors made of metal  suddenly erupt into flame, and then spread? 

This is BAD.

when I was 3, at that movie theater, I didnt know it at the time, but my brain was contractually obligated to watch all things star wars until the end of time.... so I will watch the show, but I am going to have to be a drunk as fuck to choke down the new eps. 

[bolverk 29656]

21 minutes ago, Levi said:

At the same time there is a small but just as loud contingent of fans that automatically assume someone is racist, bigoted or whatever for not liking something, and it’s not because of a show that happens to be diverse.  The fan base has a small and loud subset of groups that like to go at each other and make a mess of the fandom as a whole. I don’t believe this is only a SW problem. Every major franchise deals with the same issues. 

One of the big reasons I like this thread is Surly has a stern unwritten rule to keep political opinions in the cloak room only. You’re simply not going to get that on large social media sites. I think the thread and other SW threads on here do a good job with staying on topic. Maybe we’re also a good representation of the cool majority of the SW fandom. 

I mostly agree, but your message should be directed at the asshats in this thread who've made identity bullshit grievances as their chief complaint instead of the lackluster (at best) writing.

Edited June 17 by bolverk
and acting

[Levi 2585]

33 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I mostly agree, but your message should be directed at the asshats in this thread who've made identity bullshit grievances as their chief complaint instead of the lackluster (at best) writing.

My message wasn’t directed at you. I was adding another angle to your overall argument of agenda driven criticism outside the scope of story, writing, dialogue ect…

[F250 28764]

11 hours ago, Levi said:

We’ve never seen a Skywalker or a descendent of the family be the ultimate leader of the opposition to the rebels

[Levi 2585]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

[rage-a-holic 4382]

43 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I mostly agree, but your message should be directed at the asshats in this thread who've made identity bullshit grievances as their chief complaint instead of the lackluster (at best) writing.

What a load of shit. There aren't any incel boogeymen on this thread. The negative comments about the show have been about the:

• shitty writing
• shitty dialogue
• shitty acting
• shitty costumes and set
• stupid plot

If you're looking for posters with an agenda about this show, look in the mirror. You and several others here desperately want this shitty show to succeed for personal, ideological reasons. 

[bolverk 29656]

1 minute ago, Levi said:

My message wasn’t directed at you. I was adding another angle to your overall argument of agenda driven criticism outside the scope of story, writing, dialogue ect…

Gotcha.

People coming in her to complain that two lesbians having kids (which can happen here even on earth) while simultaneously ignoring interspecies, not to mention presumably interplanetary, procreation is rich.

People complaining that a white guy got killed off early when you see similar types of non-white characters getting whacked early in other shows all the fucking time is blatant hypocrisy.

People complaining about a fat Jedi when we see a tiny little green man jumping around and doing flips and shit high in the air is just stupid. Don't they both have the Force at their disposal?

Valid criticisms about the storytelling are fine and encouraged. I was addressing the same cadre of posters who consistently bemoan the race and gender of characters, sidetracking potentionally good discussions.

I guess some people feel threatened that a better balance nullifies whatever special feeling they get from seeing actors who are different from them on the screen. Apparently, it makes them feel alienated, even though they're still largely over-represented as a share of the whole audience. This obviously leads me back to the point that folks like to see characters who are like them participate in these stories.

[bolverk 29656]

7 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

What a load of shit. There aren't any incel boogeymen on this thread. The negative comments about the show have been about the:

• shitty writing
• shitty dialogue
• shitty acting
• shitty costumes and set
• stupid plot

If you're looking for posters with an agenda about this show, look in the mirror. You and several others here desperately want this shitty show to succeed for personal, ideological reasons. 

Look at the tweet Macklemore/Icono shared if you need a reminder about what set this off. Moreover, I seem to recall you had a minor shit-fit about race in the Wheel of Time thread.

[rage-a-holic 4382]

10 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Look at the tweet Macklemore/Icono shared if you need a reminder about what set this off. Moreover, I seem to recall you had a minor shit-fit about race in the Wheel of Time thread.

Several people posted tweets about what a hilariously awful show it is. And I posted about another terrible show...years ago...on a different thread? Your logic and proof are unassailable. 

Again....ridicule is not fear or outrage.

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

5 hours ago, bolverk said:

This dumb show's got 99 problems, and a fat Jedi, a dead white Jedi, women singing, and lesbians ain't none of 'em.

If we're talking about REALISM, here's how I see it:

• On the real Earth, 4 out of every 10 people is overweight/obese.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 12 people is a white male.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 2 is female, and a helluva lot of them like to sing.
• On the real Earth, 1 out of every 32 people is gay.

On the real Earth, that all translates to only about 1 out of every 20 people being a fit straight white human male.

Yet, we, the 5 percent, somehow expect the majority of lead characters in a space opera sold to a diverse global audience to all look and act like us.

Get REAL.

None of that even takes into account that in this Star Wars galaxy, we've been introduced to a multitude of species from hundreds, if not thousands, of planets, each with its own sex parts, biology, cultures, and whatnot.

In that fantasy universe where humanoids are pretty well represented, what's the REALISTIC percentage that should be expected to be a fit, straight white human male? Two, maybe three percent, if that.

Of course, in the real world, I don't expect the composition of characters of an American-based show to reflect all that diversity or for a small percentage of them to be fit, straight white human males.

I only point all this out to show what utterly fucking stupid these whiny crybabies are who complain about lame "identity" shit in a sci-fi fantasy world, expecting it to match their own imaginary (and false) "reality" of the world.

Grow the fuck up. The galaxy doesn't revolve around your pathetic, stingy little fragile ego and its petty grievances unless, of course, you're the Emporer and can shoot blue lightning out of your fingertips.

 

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Their "agenda" is to make money from a diverse, global audience. Most people like to see themselves represented on the screen. You'll likely make less money if your primary characters represent only five percent of the total audience. Hell, even in America, less than a third of the population is made up of white males of all ages, and the majority of the kids don't give a shit about these identity grievances.

The smarter play is to diversify your cast, even if it hurts the feelings of a few butthurt middle-aged white guys (and at least one stupid Persian) who want to go back to a time when they called all the shots and didn't have to share their toys action figures.

These people need to grow the fuck up and stop whinging like little tittybabies because, SHOCKING, there are now lesbians and fat dudes in space. Of the hundreds and hundreds of characters in all the Star Wars shows, how many of them have ever been represented? Hell, one of the witchy lesbians isn't even human, but no one seems to have a problem with interspecies procreation or consider that her lady parts might work differently in this fantasy galaxy.

 

As a straight middle-aged white male myself, this is all I give a shit about. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

On the other hand, they seem to have failed at this part of making the show so far. Let's see if the overall story comes along. Hopefully, it gets better, but I'm not optimistic.

 

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Just the opposite. I enjoy the entertainment for what it is: a sci-fi fantasy story.

However, I do take bigotry (open or veiled) rather seriously.

 

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

I mostly agree, but your message should be directed at the asshats in this thread who've made identity bullshit grievances as their chief complaint instead of the lackluster (at best) writing.

 

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Why would an attempt at some degree of balance alienate the core audience (let's state it plainly: white guys)? Are we so fragile that we can't stand to see other groups in lead roles also on the screen? By and large, no one can say with a straight face that we haven't always been, and likely always will be, overrepresented. 

To your point regarding tokenism, it only feels that way because representation remains unbalanced. Adding a character here or there that represents another group still doesn't achieve it. And, to state explicitly, that isn't on the "agenda". If it were, you'd see far fewer white guys in lead roles than we do now. Again, in the US, less than a third of the audience are white guys. As to the interspecies lesbian couple that had the twins, that may have well been in service to the story. We don't know yet, as their conception story hasn't been fully revealed. If it eventually isn't, then poor writing storytelling is the problem.

And, yes, I am quite familiar with Campbell. Star Wars borrows from a long and ancient, near-universal storytelling tradition.

As far as the box office goes, when the original film was released in 1977 (I saw it as a five-year-old in the theater), global movie distribution was a far different business when film was shipped in cans months after American release compared to today when movies/shows are digitedly distributed worldwide all at once. As such, Hollywood is much more dependent today on the global market where US audiences now commonly comprise only about a third of sales. To that extent, I'm perfectly comfortable with the business case.

Finally, I'll make the case as a dad on Father's Day. It's my duty as the father of a gay kid (I'm certainly not the only on this site) to advocate that my child can see on occasion, no matter how rare, someone like that can also be seen in the Star Wars universe.

 

bolverk'd!

 

So stunningly brave! Your compassion, virtue, and bravery, should be remembered by all culture warriors!

[bolverk 29656]

7 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

Several people posted tweets about what a hilariously awful show it is. And I posted about another terrible show...years ago...on a different thread? Your logic and proof are unassailable. 

Again....ridicule is not fear or outrage.

Look, I'm not emotionally invested at all in this show, and I'm certainly not "desperate" for it to be good. SPOILER ALERT: IT'S BEEN BAD.

I'm not going to search this thread for all the comments about lesbians, nor am I going to look for complaints in other threads, such as the House of the Dragon one, where people bitch about there being Black actors playing Valyrians. I see it for what it is: mostly straight, middle-aged white guys pathetically feeling threatened by having to share the stage with others (oh no, I mentioned a different thread where people have also pulled this same tiresome shit!).

Sometimes I speak up to say, "Fuck off to those kind of comments," and "Stick with valid complaints," but mostly I don't. Knowing Macklemore/Icono for the loathsome person he is and his consistently hate-filled agenda, I decided to say something about it tonight. I'm sorry if that offended your delicate sensibilities by me saying, "Don't be a dick."

[bolverk 29656]

4 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

bolverk'd!

So stunningly brave! Your compassion, virtue, and bravery, should be remembered by all culture warriors!

I'm not the one who brought culture war shit to this thread. If you don't like gay people or prominent women characters on screen, keep it to your fucking self.

[rage-a-holic 4382]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

I'm not the one who brought culture war shit to this thread. If you don't like gay people or prominent women characters on screen, keep it to your fucking self.

Really? You're the one that posted this. 

Quote

your message should be directed at the asshats in this thread who've made identity bullshit grievances as their chief complaint 

which is demonstrably not true. 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

9 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm not the one who brought culture war shit to this thread. If you don't like gay people or prominent women characters on screen, keep it to your fucking self.

 

lol bolverk'd again!

And don't put fucking words in my mouth, I've said nothing about teh gheys or the broads in this shitty show. Go suck yourself off somewhere else, where bullshit posturing is the norm, like the CR.

Edited June 17 by MagicSoccerSpray

[Hank_Hill 18794]

4 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

You and several others here desperately want this shitty show to succeed for personal, ideological reasons. 

Literally nobody is doing this. This thread is unanimously shitting on the show. We’re also allowed to shit on people posting tweets from snowflakes crying about the fats, gays, and lack of white representation in the show. 

[52-80 19147]

 

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

I see it for what it is: mostly straight, middle-aged white guys pathetically feeling threatened by having to share the stage with others (oh no, I mentioned a different thread where people have also pulled this same tiresome shit!).

The middle-aged white guys seem to enjoy Rogue One with a starring cast of a woman; a dark-haired hispanic-accented guy; a blind asian dude; and a black man with droopy eyes.

The whitest middle-aged guy portrayed the villain (Orson Krennic).

Maybe we don't accuse peoples' motives to gatekeep a television show, and instead accept that people can recognize a turd when it smells like shit.

 

[WBT 20561]

17 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

Or the half of America that is below median intelligence has access to Twitter as well.

+rep for median rather than average

[Macklemore 2876]

10 hours ago, bolverk said:

Just the opposite. I enjoy the entertainment for what it is: a sci-fi fantasy story.

However, I do take bigotry (open or veiled) rather seriously.

Don’t be an idiot. Andor had a diverse cast with women in most of the lead roles. Star Wars fans had no issue with that because the story was great. Acolyte is a horrible show. There is a lot to find fault with and ridicule.

[52-80 19147]

the bigots must've missed out on their opportunity to complain in the 1,000 post thread about ahsoka with a female lead named rosario, a co-lead with blue hair, and space witches.

[Nivek 16923]

@bolverk

I think there is always some complaining about complaining.   When TLJ revealed the stormtrooper was black the outcry wasn't racism as much as it was "hey, I thought they were clones of Fett?" in my opinion.    I also think the idea that we have to find people on screen that represent us a bit ridiculous.  I didn't watch Ripley and think she was awesome because she reflected 11 yr old me.   I watch Andor and the story reveals challenges he faced, the agony he had, the no-win situations he found himself in, and it revealed why he was so hardened for Rogue One (especially disturbing was his killing of the informant).  That is what makes a character relatable, not gender, not skin color, not orientation.    Brokeback Mountain was a good movie and according to Wiki was the 3rd place movie in France, Italy, Australia, 1st place in Hong Kong, and earned $83 million in the US.  

This new wave of shoving diversity and identification instead of quality storytelling is annoying.  There have always been shitty movies like "Surf Nazi's Must Die" but those programs never lied about what they were.   

Spoiler

If you want to get into the weeds a little bit.  The witches are odd because the Zabrik is not the leader, and the Night Sisters were not exactly good to the males of their species.  So there would be consistency there.   The immaculate conception part weakens the story of Vader's origins a bit.  It would be like finding out that before Jesus, there was a guy name George, he was also the son of God, but different.   He could heal the sick, resurrect the dead, turn water into wine,  but he liked to party like a Borgia Pope.   Suddenly the story of Jesus doesn't seem that special.  

 

[JBJ 3654]

I watched Ep1 and thought I was done. The show literally started losing me at "Attack me with all your strength."  The hubbub over Ep3 made me decide to keep going (for now).  I'm also watching with my wife now, so we will see how far our combined forces take us.

The diaglogue is terrible. Sol (the Korean jedi) has been a great actor, along with the lead witch, and the fake apothecary dude.  So it seems like it's all bad writing and not bad delivery.  But so many scenes just feel off in tone or have forced dialogue. 

Maybe they have something going with the plot?  I don't know what could actually make the show salvagable, though. Seems like we are headed towards a "the whole thing is a big misunderstanding" conclusion, which would be the most unsatisfying thing ever.

---

Also, I'm growing into the theory that when a studio realizes it has a flop, they'll push diversity as a marketing tool because they know it'll act as a shield from criticism and that it'll still draw eyes from some demographics.  Others have pointed out Andor, Boba Fett, Mandolorian are as diverse if not moreso and we didn't get all the bizarre press and/or white knighting.

[ajax 2607]

You know that ludicrous chant - they could have hired a music  expert or someone with knowledge of tribal chants to come up with something. Could have paid them the Hollywood equivalent of pocket change to come up with something that sounded cool or at the very least wasn't laughable.

I don't know anyone involved with this show can watch that scene and think "yeah, we nailed it."

Edited June 17 by ajax

[kevwun 15766]

Even worse during the chant is that they were playing a recording of the chant in the background right after it just to remind us how bad it was.  That was one of the most cringey scenes I remember seeing.

[52-80 19147]

Its simple. We just want to see cute animals. Cool villains. Laser sword fights. 
 

And, as a bonus, some tits. 

[BabaYaga 15289]

Christ already, just make a movie out of all the insane cutscenes out there like the ones with Starkiller

[Hank_Hill 18794]

6 hours ago, Macklemore said:

Don’t be an idiot. Andor had a diverse cast with women in most of the lead roles. Star Wars fans had no issue with that because the story was great. Acolyte is a horrible show. There is a lot to find fault with and ridicule.

Why does the story quality make diversity a problem or not? That’s the point. It’s a shitty show because of the things that make a show shitty (writing, acting, directing, set design)