The Acolyte (Star Wars Disney+ show)

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

Filoni gonna have to make an animated show to make sense of the sequels. And it will work. Somehow. 

[Slacks 6712]

7 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

pretty hot on mute, but voice worse than the acting

 

 

No ass. One dance move. Still wood.

Edit: on mute.

Edited August 21 by Slacks

[mdmost 42459]

I mean this is kind of insane. They had a panel for Qimir at D23. They announced books for it. The replicas of the helmet he wore sold out when it was put up. I wonder if it gets pulled from Disney+ like Willow was.

 

[billfromlaketravis 11290]

I think the media needs to have a discussion with the fans rather than writing them off as sexist white supremacists that live in their mothers’ basements. Plenty of 30 and 40 something normals that grew up on the trilogy in the fanbase. They might be the majority. Almost all of the criticisms I’ve seen here and on Reddit are valid criticisms of the story telling, acting, directing, and writing. 
 

The big media outlets are howling that The Acolyte didn’t get a fair chance. Disney gave Headland 329 minutes and $180 million to tell her story. She failed because the show isn’t any good. 
 

For perspective, Dune II cost $190 million. 

Edited August 22 by billfromlaketravis

[mdmost 42459]

51 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I think the media needs to have a discussion with the fans rather than writing them off as sexist white supremacists that live in their mothers’ basements. Plenty of 30 and 40 something normals that grew up on the trilogy in the fanbase. They might be the majority. Almost all of the criticisms I’ve seen here and on Reddit are valid criticisms of the story telling, acting, directing, and writing. 
 

The big media outlets are howling that The Acolyte didn’t get a fair chance. Disney gave Headland 329 minutes and $180 million to tell her story. She failed because the show isn’t any good. 
 

For perspective, Dune II cost $190 million. 

The fans want Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie back. Why do you think the Luke episode of Mandalorian was so highly rated? They want fan service. It's up to Lucasfilm and Disney to give us new things like Rogue One, Andor, Ahsoka, and the Mandalorian so that those things can be the next obsession. Honestly, I wish Disney would just go media silent and stop worrying about the latest Twitter outrage or clickbait YouTube personality. We and they cater way too much to negative shitbags. It gets very tiring. I give George a ton of credit. He got angry at the criticism but he made the stories he wanted to make and didn't apologize or adjust when people didn't like them. He knew his job was to put out the content and people either liked it or they didn't. 

Now, that doesn't excuse Lucasfilm and Disney from making bad choices, bad decisions or mediocre content. But I don't want to turn the franchise over to the fans. They will just want what they got when they were kids. That time is gone. You will never be that kid again and nothing will be as good as when you were the age. You'll just be chasing that feeling for the rest of your life. Either watch it or move on.

And maybe we all should stop worrying about what the media or fan sites say and just enjoy the content we enjoy and ignore the content we don't.

[52-80 18987]

I dont wholly fault Disney. Its a natural response to defend your product when it goes sour. They simply followed where they thought the money will be, and when it turned out the show was a flopped, they pulled the plug.

It is a media thing, where they are over-represented by fanatic ideologues wielding 'bigotry' as a cudgel. Or they amplify the voices of those who are. Because it isnt just with the Disney/SW products -- remember Captain Marvel? Ghostbusters reboot? Hell, remember Charlie Strong Texas Football?

The arbiters of good taste and exemplary morals says no, no, it's not that the product is bad causing your dislike, it must be your latent hatred of xxx marginalized groups....in this case millionaire producers, actors, and coaches. And if that is in fact true for 1 person out of a hundred million, that'll be the cherry they pick to poison the well for everyone else.

Ignore those 'negative shitbags' and let them wallow in their self-righteousness.

[Js1 83356]

7 hours ago, mdmost said:

The fans want Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie back. Why do you think the Luke episode of Mandalorian was so highly rated? They want fan service. It's up to Lucasfilm and Disney to give us new things like Rogue One, Andor, Ahsoka, and the Mandalorian so that those things can be the next obsession. Honestly, I wish Disney would just go media silent and stop worrying about the latest Twitter outrage or clickbait YouTube personality. We and they cater way too much to negative shitbags. It gets very tiring. I give George a ton of credit. He got angry at the criticism but he made the stories he wanted to make and didn't apologize or adjust when people didn't like them. He knew his job was to put out the content and people either liked it or they didn't. 

Now, that doesn't excuse Lucasfilm and Disney from making bad choices, bad decisions or mediocre content. But I don't want to turn the franchise over to the fans. They will just want what they got when they were kids. That time is gone. You will never be that kid again and nothing will be as good as when you were the age. You'll just be chasing that feeling for the rest of your life. Either watch it or move on.

And maybe we all should stop worrying about what the media or fan sites say and just enjoy the content we enjoy and ignore the content we don't.

[billfromlaketravis 11290]

I sincerely hope there is a behind the scenes book written about this show. $180 million dollars, $550,000 per minute. It feels like Disney was grafted. Headland used all of her own people, including her spouse, to make one of the most expensive shows in the history of television. Perhaps, she used Disney as a cash grab and didn’t care about quality. The giddy interviews leading up to the release felt like somebody getting one over on the studio. It could explain Disney’s pettiness. I don’t think an audit would go well here. 

If you don’t think this sort of thing happens in the entertainment business, go read up on Sheridan, Yellowstone, and Paramount. 

[BHMCruiser 1806]

3 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I sincerely hope there is a behind the scenes book written about this show. $180 million dollars, $550,000 per minute. It feels like Disney was grafted. Headland used all of her own people, including her spouse, to make one of the most expensive shows in the history of television. Perhaps, she used Disney as a cash grab and didn’t care about quality. The giddy interviews leading up to the release felt like somebody getting one over on the studio. It could explain Disney’s pettiness. I don’t think an audit would go well here. 

If you don’t think this sort of thing happens in the entertainment business, go read up on Sheridan, Yellowstone, and Paramount. 

That kind of stuff usually happens after the studio screws up the show or gets too controlling. I don't know of that ever happening FROM THE BEGINNING. 

[Scary Stranger 1711]

18 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I sincerely hope there is a behind the scenes book written about this show. $180 million dollars, $550,000 per minute. It feels like Disney was grafted. Headland used all of her own people, including her spouse, to make one of the most expensive shows in the history of television. Perhaps, she used Disney as a cash grab and didn’t care about quality. The giddy interviews leading up to the release felt like somebody getting one over on the studio. It could explain Disney’s pettiness. I don’t think an audit would go well here. 

If you don’t think this sort of thing happens in the entertainment business, go read up on Sheridan, Yellowstone, and Paramount. 

*grifted

[mdmost 42459]

33 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I sincerely hope there is a behind the scenes book written about this show. $180 million dollars, $550,000 per minute. It feels like Disney was grafted. Headland used all of her own people, including her spouse, to make one of the most expensive shows in the history of television. Perhaps, she used Disney as a cash grab and didn’t care about quality. The giddy interviews leading up to the release felt like somebody getting one over on the studio. It could explain Disney’s pettiness. I don’t think an audit would go well here. 

If you don’t think this sort of thing happens in the entertainment business, go read up on Sheridan, Yellowstone, and Paramount. 

I think this was one of the productions that have Covid affecting it so maybe that explains some of the bloated budget. I don't think she was doing a cash grab or trying to pull over something on Disney. She definitely appears to be a fan of the franchise, especially the prequels. Perhaps Disney should just be done with TV Star Wars unless it's animated going forward. Just focus on movies again. Disney+ is no longer paying off. 

[dcar00 13956]

10 hours ago, mdmost said:

The fans want Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie back. Why do you think the Luke episode of Mandalorian was so highly rated? They want fan service. It's up to Lucasfilm and Disney to give us new things like Rogue One, Andor, Ahsoka, and the Mandalorian so that those things can be the next obsession. Honestly, I wish Disney would just go media silent and stop worrying about the latest Twitter outrage or clickbait YouTube personality. We and they cater way too much to negative shitbags. It gets very tiring. I give George a ton of credit. He got angry at the criticism but he made the stories he wanted to make and didn't apologize or adjust when people didn't like them. He knew his job was to put out the content and people either liked it or they didn't. 

Now, that doesn't excuse Lucasfilm and Disney from making bad choices, bad decisions or mediocre content. But I don't want to turn the franchise over to the fans. They will just want what they got when they were kids. That time is gone. You will never be that kid again and nothing will be as good as when you were the age. You'll just be chasing that feeling for the rest of your life. Either watch it or move on.

And maybe we all should stop worrying about what the media or fan sites say and just enjoy the content we enjoy and ignore the content we don't.

do people on this site really worry about what the media or fan sites are saying?  and yes what they need to do is stop trying to force feed crap and make good shit that people like, like the 4 you mentioned, which aren't really "fan service" at all.  the problem is they need something new regardless of how good it is to keep streaming going.

 

[Js1 83356]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I sincerely hope there is a behind the scenes book written about this show.

Serious question - unless you’re a Disney shareholder, why do you care so much? The show is over. Move on. You seem to want to get your outrage jollies over the autopsy of this show that seemingly no one liked but has more discourse than any other Disney show or movie the last couple years. 

[mdmost 42459]

16 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

do people on this site really worry about what the media or fan sites are saying?  and yes what they need to do is stop trying to force feed crap and make good shit that people like, like the 4 you mentioned, which aren't really "fan service" at all.  the problem is they need something new regardless of how good it is to keep streaming going.

 

Ahsoka, outside of Baylon, is 100% fan service. She's a Clone Wars favorite and you have to be a fan of Rebels to understand who Ezra, Sabine, and Thrawn are unless you read the Zahn Trilogy. Again, another fan specific character. People thought the third season of Mandalorian was mediocre because it leaned too much into the Mandalorian lore from Clone Wars. 

My preference is go way into the future or way into the past. Stop putting anything around the established timeline. That's what Shawn Levy and James Manigold are supposedly doing with their movies. But yes, also focus on quality and good storytelling. Something this show did not do which is sad because a Sith-centric show was a new concept that was interesting to explore. 

Edited August 22 by mdmost

[dcar00 13956]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Ahsoka, outside of Baylon, is 100% fan service. She's a Clone Wars favorite and you have to be a fan of Rebels to understand who Ezra, Sabine, and Thrawn are unless you read the Zahn Trilogy. Again, another fan specific character. People thought the third season of Mandalorian was mediocre because it leaned too much into the Mandalorian lore from Clone Wars. 

My preference is go way into the future or way into the past. Stop putting anything around the established timeline. That's why Shawn Levy and James Manigold are supposedly doing with their movies. But yes, also focus on quality and good storytelling. Something this show did not do which is sad because a Sith-centric show was a new concept that was interesting to explore. 

That is my point.  Many, many Star Wars fans don't know anything or very little about Ahsoka, so it is a new character to them, but it was still good and had some connection to the movie characters obviously.  I think Mandalorian season 3, it had just run it's course.  There are different levels of SW fans(movie only, movie and animation, movie/animation/books). 

you don't have to have the sole or major focus be a major movie character you just have to think a bit on how to incorporate some of the "legend".

[dcar00 13956]

39 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Serious question - unless you’re a Disney shareholder, why do you care so much? The show is over. Move on. You seem to want to get your outrage jollies over the autopsy of this show that seemingly no one liked but has more discourse than any other Disney show or movie the last couple years. 

IMO, the way to stop the discourse is to put out some new crap stat...

[Captain Ron 12719]

DGAFIAP

[ChickenSandwich 9767]

"It didn't suck" it is the audience who is wrong.

 

Accountability is poison for them.

[ChickenSandwich 9767]

 

[Bill Brasky 1431]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

 

We ain't found shit!!!

[JBJ 3598]

Andor was basically all new characters, we had seen some before but thet weren't really developed (Mon Mothma, Luther, Andor).  We already know what happens to Andor, so there was no reason to be heavily invested.   And yet....

Andor didn't do well at launch, but it's one of those things that grew via word of mouth.  Just make something good and people will come.

[AUS-97HORN 11556]

3 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

DGAFIAP

 

yep, I am a middle aged straight white guy, so I know I am not allowed to talk about diversity because I dont know what its like....  but the fun part about that is it makes a perfect fort to hide behind when the shit hits the fan.

there may have been a few channels screaming woke-ness. but for most of the channels, they were pretty pissed at the plot, the writing, especially writing having to do with sticking with known cannon regarding how the force works, how the Jedi are trained to act and how jedi actions are thought through.  

  

The "gotcha" surprise attack from behind is only supposed to work if the jedi is completely overloaded trying to defend themselves or others. 

This shows very first fucking episode started with a gotcha where a Master was so distracted trying to help a single innocent from a SINGLE attack, that they completely forgot about the lightsaber wielding dark user in front of them.   and then doubled down on that where 2 other Masters got taken out by surprise attacks, and the 4th just decided fuck it, im gonna drink poison cause I couldnt control my mind being taken over.

 

this fucker whining about the production people being fucked by Disney seems to have no fucking idea that the writing team is who fucked them all from the very beginning, by writing a completely unbelievable Jedi-led tale of multiple "light-side" masters keeping pretty heavy secrets for 16 years, and then doubling down on that fuckery by ending with the lead Master lying to everyone else except Yoda.

[Buzzrock 14785]

21 hours ago, mdmost said:

The fans want Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie back. Why do you think the Luke episode of Mandalorian was so highly rated? They want fan service. It's up to Lucasfilm and Disney to give us new things like Rogue One, Andor, Ahsoka, and the Mandalorian so that those things can be the next obsession. Honestly, I wish Disney would just go media silent and stop worrying about the latest Twitter outrage or clickbait YouTube personality. We and they cater way too much to negative shitbags. It gets very tiring. I give George a ton of credit. He got angry at the criticism but he made the stories he wanted to make and didn't apologize or adjust when people didn't like them. He knew his job was to put out the content and people either liked it or they didn't. 

Now, that doesn't excuse Lucasfilm and Disney from making bad choices, bad decisions or mediocre content. But I don't want to turn the franchise over to the fans. They will just want what they got when they were kids. That time is gone. You will never be that kid again and nothing will be as good as when you were the age. You'll just be chasing that feeling for the rest of your life. Either watch it or move on.

And maybe we all should stop worrying about what the media or fan sites say and just enjoy the content we enjoy and ignore the content we don't.

I disagree. The fans want good stories told well in their beloved universe. They read the books, played the video games, grew up on the OT and have watched a steady stream of mostly garbage ever since. Everyone loved Andor for a reason: it was good. 

[Guadaloopy 10801]

[Nivek 16684]

 
yep, I am a middle aged straight white guy, so I know I am not allowed to talk about diversity because I dont know what its like....  but the fun part about that is it makes a perfect fort to hide behind when the shit hits the fan.
there may have been a few channels screaming woke-ness. but for most of the channels, they were pretty pissed at the plot, the writing, especially writing having to do with sticking with known cannon regarding how the force works, how the Jedi are trained to act and how jedi actions are thought through.  
  
The "gotcha" surprise attack from behind is only supposed to work if the jedi is completely overloaded trying to defend themselves or others. 
This shows very first fucking episode started with a gotcha where a Master was so distracted trying to help a single innocent from a SINGLE attack, that they completely forgot about the lightsaber wielding dark user in front of them.   and then doubled down on that where 2 other Masters got taken out by surprise attacks, and the 4th just decided fuck it, im gonna drink poison cause I couldnt control my mind being taken over.
 
this fucker whining about the production people being fucked by Disney seems to have no fucking idea that the writing team is who fucked them all from the very beginning, by writing a completely unbelievable Jedi-led tale of multiple "light-side" masters keeping pretty heavy secrets for 16 years, and then doubling down on that fuckery by ending with the lead Master lying to everyone else except Yoda.

That dude is kind of ignorant on the motivations of a business. They are there to make money, not to be a safe haven for creatives to experiment with investors money. Disney made Frozen. They can do good stuff.

[52-80 18987]

Compare the resume/filmography depth of the producers and showrunners of the other SW live action shows: they've all done action/fantasy series. 

Disney annointing Headland was their version of a Darko Milicic draft pick.

[Levi 2566]

On 8/22/2024 at 11:17 AM, Captain Ron said:

DGAFIAP

This whole vid is hiding behind the idea of because something is new then it’s already good and exciting. Do I want to see more of Plagueis after only have read one of the best SW novels and being teased in the prequels? I most certainly do. It’s a crucial back story in the Skywalker saga. But what I don’t want is it being done by a show that has obvious flaws in directing, writing, plot, acting ect. And those reason do not make anyone a bigot. It’s not my fault that Disney as company sees dollars before quality. Maybe if they put the quality of the product first then they might consistently put out new shows that fans care to see more of.

 

21 hours ago, JBJ said:

Andor was basically all new characters, we had seen some before but thet weren't really developed (Mon Mothma, Luther, Andor).  We already know what happens to Andor, so there was no reason to be heavily invested.   And yet....

Andor didn't do well at launch, but it's one of those things that grew via word of mouth.  Just make something good and people will come.

I agree that it was something new. They succeeded because Tony was proven and had an ability to bring in other highly talented people. No one really wanted Andor and thought it was a waste of an idea but they stuck the landing and it showed. I had a feeling the show might have a chance to be good when I found out the production designer hired for Andor also worked on the HBO series Chernobyl. Hiring competent people and have a  well thought out plan will lead to success. 

Edited August 23 by Levi

[rage-a-holic 4256]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:45 PM, Buzzrock said:

I disagree. The fans want good stories told well in their beloved universe. They read the books, played the video games, grew up on the OT and have watched a steady stream of mostly garbage ever since. Everyone loved Andor for a reason: it was good. 

Nope. This was just a great show, canceled due to "hyper conservative bigotry"

Amandla Stenberg Blames ‘Hyper-Conservative Bigotry’ For ‘The Acolyte’ Being Canceled (dailywire.com)

[Buzzrock 14785]

Her agent

[Captainant 26914]

10 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

Nope. This was just a great show, canceled due to "hyper conservative bigotry"

Amandla Stenberg Blames ‘Hyper-Conservative Bigotry’ For ‘The Acolyte’ Being Canceled (dailywire.com)

Idk if I would trust Ben Shapiro's framing on the discourse around Acolyte lol

[52-80 18987]

16 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

Nope. This was just a great show, canceled due to "hyper conservative bigotry"

Amandla Stenberg Blames ‘Hyper-Conservative Bigotry’ For ‘The Acolyte’ Being Canceled (dailywire.com)

signaling to the rightthink tribe. 

[Buzzrock 14785]

The spin may vary, but she said what she said:

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/amandla-stenberg-reacts-acolyte-canceled-bigotry-star-wars-fans-1236122028/#

 

[billfromlaketravis 11290]

Stenberg is hot, but not very talented. A dime a dozen in Hollywood. I doubt we’ll hear from her again. 

[52-80 18987]

14 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Stenberg is hot, but not very talented. A dime a dozen in Hollywood. I doubt we’ll hear from her again. 

While true and true, her politics are aligned with Hollywood, so if she wont be heard from again, it wouldnt be for that reason. 

[Captainant 26914]

The Acolyte didn't fail because of culture war bullshit, it failed because it made eight 30 minute episodes for $200,000,000. That's a pretty goddamn unsustainable business model, and on top of that the episodes were all mid to crappy

[The Dog 43408]

[kingkoopa6 8274]

Delete.  Nsfw. 
 

 

Edited September 6 by kingkoopa6

[mdmost 42459]

Hold up. What?

[AUS-97HORN 11556]

2 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

Delete.  Nsfw. 
 

 

[Lhorn 4863]

Some of us aren’t at work ya know!

[kingkoopa6 8274]

1 hour ago, AUS-97HORN said:

 

7 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

Some of us aren’t at work ya know!

Spoiler

 

 

[kingkoopa6 8274]

Spoiler

 

[Murfdogg21 4398]

On 8/22/2024 at 10:35 AM, mdmost said:

Ahsoka, outside of Baylon, is 100% fan service. She's a Clone Wars favorite and you have to be a fan of Rebels to understand who Ezra, Sabine, and Thrawn are unless you read the Zahn Trilogy. Again, another fan specific character. People thought the third season of Mandalorian was mediocre because it leaned too much into the Mandalorian lore from Clone Wars. 

The ESB and ROTJ, outside of Yoda and Lando, were 100% fan service to people who enjoyed the original movie and wanted to see more Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, R2-D2, and C-3PO.

Giving more content, backstory, or future stories that add more color to beloved characters doesn’t have to be a travesty. I’d love to know more about Luke and Leia post-ROTJ (I’d appreciate if they’d nuke Ep. 7-9 as non-canon, but I digress). I’m enough of a fan that I will watch Disney+ shows and cartoons, but I stop short of comic books and novels. I don’t think that makes me an outlier of SW core fan base. I’ll watch new stories set centuries before or after, even shit shows like the Acolyte, because it’s all SW content. I still enjoy “fan service” to fill in the missing portions of beloved characters’ stories. 

[billfromlaketravis 11290]

13 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

  Hide contents

 

Looking forward to celebrating Dafne Keen’s entire catalog. 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1725]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:35 AM, mdmost said:

People thought the third season of Mandalorian was mediocre because it leaned too much into the Mandalorian lore from Clone Wars. 

 

Or because the Madalorian became a secondary character in his own show when it became focused on Bo-Katan.

[nineliveslost 2690]

2 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Or because the Madalorian became a secondary character in his own show when it became focused on Bo-Katan.

exactly. Disney tries their best to push fans away

[mdmost 42459]

10 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

The ESB and ROTJ, outside of Yoda and Lando, were 100% fan service to people who enjoyed the original movie and wanted to see more Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, R2-D2, and C-3PO.

No, that's a sequel. It continued the story Lucas had originally wanted to tell. It was always intended to be a trilogy. 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1725]

https://thatparkplace.com/exclusive-star-wars-the-acolyte-real-costs-exploded-to-230-million-according-to-new-tax-documents/

 

Quote

EXCLUSIVE: United Kingdom tax documents filed by the Walt Disney Company’s UK branch reveal that Lucasfilm and The Walt Disney Company spent over 172 million GBP (231 million USD) on the production of The Acolyte, a prequel series set in the Disney Star Wars universe.

Annual Report and Financial Statement of Full Accounts “Blue Stockings UK Limited”

In an interview with Vanity Fair, The Acolyte series creator Leslye Headland publicly claimed the show cost “180 million,” which was assumed by several to be stated in US dollars. It is evident that if Headland had knowledge of the series financials that she was more likely referring the the amount in Great British Pounds. Accounting for exchange rates at the time of this article, this means that The Acolyte cost almost $230 million US dollars.

 

[Nivek 16684]

The writer for the Obi Wan Kenobi trilogy was on a podcast and shared his story. It sounded really good. They borrowed from it, but produced a show of far lesser quality.

CGI has been around for more than 20 years, and some companies still don’t understand that a cgi shitfest of explosions isn’t storytelling or visually interesting. It is a great support, but a shitty substitute.

[BabaYaga 15171]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

The writer for the Obi Wan Kenobi trilogy was on a podcast and shared his story. It sounded really good. They borrowed from it, but produced a show of far lesser quality.

CGI has been around for more than 20 years, and some companies still don’t understand that a cgi shitfest of explosions isn’t storytelling or visually interesting. It is a great support, but a shitty substitute.

Yep.  It all circles back to a great, great story.  I said it before, two great recent trilogies that made great stories even better with amazing special effects were LOTR and GOT.  Small story liberties were of course taken, but they stayed true to the story and built an amazing backdrop around them.  Where they shined were in the character development aspect.  

Where GOT fell of the rails were after the books ended.  Then you had a room full of "creatives" that took an amazing storyline and shit all over it.  How do you know you have an amazing story?  Why are so many movie adaptations from best-selling books?  Because of the stories woven over time and tested in the books.  SW has that story.  KOTOR is staring them in the face.  Luke and the new republic.  The stories are there.  Bring them to life.  Fuck, it's not that hard.