The Kids (Aren't) Alright - World Happiness Report

[Frank Drebin 5663]

22 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Like most things, there's a happy medium between coddling and harsh discipline. Going too far in one direction or the other is destructive.  I mean, look at the kids in Footloose.  They just wanted to dance, for chrissakes.

She discusses that in her book.  Permissive or gentle parenting is destructive.  Authoritarian is destructive -- cold discipline with no love and obey because I said so/fear.  Authoritative -- rules imposed but with love is what she suggests is best.

[BabaYaga 15290]

48 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Like most things, there's a happy medium between coddling and harsh discipline. Going too far in one direction or the other is destructive.  I mean, look at the kids in Footloose.  They just wanted to dance, for chrissakes.

There is.  For many, the best outlet for those with children and busy lives are athletics.  Teach them early on that all their pussy friends need a swift kick in the dick, and that utilizing your physical dominance over them both makes you feel better and their cries of pain will dramatically help them get to sleep at night.  Teach them early what is best.

 

[Celery Man 20934]

[Sawbonz 27546]

2 hours ago, Foosters said:

That's the current working theory.

Remember it started with:

Q: Wow, young people are really down and pessimistic, what’s going on?

A: We're being too nice to them

[F250 28767]

58 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

And y'all took it and made some pretty bad ass music.  I'm looking around at Gen Z right now and...not seeing that.

Gen Z is trying with all those SoundCloud artists. They don't have any talent but they are trying.

[F250 28767]

17 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

There is.  For many, the best outlet for those with children and busy lives are athletics.  Teach them early on that all their pussy friends need a swift kick in the dick, and that utilizing your physical dominance over them both makes you feel better and their cries of pain will dramatically help them get to sleep at night.  Teach them early what is best.

 

[Nivek 16923]

2 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

That is not the premise I was discussing.  It is not nice to give kids therapy when they do not need it.  It is not nice to practice what is called "gentle parenting" with no structure or rules.  It is not nice to be a bulldozer or helicopter parenting.  These things are destructive, no matter how well meaning you are.

Let's cut through the bullshit.  What is wrong with therapy and who decides if it is necessary or not and what type are we talking about because therapy is an umbrella term for a host of services.  

What is gentle parenting and why is it wrong?   How does this mean there are no rules or structure?  Who are you to decide what is their structure and rules?   

What are bulldozer and helicopter parents and how is it wrong?  How do you know what one is vs. what that person is experiencing?   

We make a lot of judgements bases on momentary snapshots.   This type of behavior is what philosophers and religious leaders (Jesus, Siddhartha, David Foster Wallace, etc.) caution us against.   And these generalizations are what is manipulated by bad actors to get otherwise normal people to participate in horrors.   

Edited March 22 by Nivek

[BabaYaga 15290]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

We make a lot of judgements bases on snapshots of what we see in moments. 

Surly motto?

[Neonmoon 38129]

56 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

And of course, this thread doesn't want to hear it, but that's exactly the discipline we get from our Father-- there is truth and discipline, but also grace (love, for when you screw it up).

**ducks**

Anyone want to sign up for my cult?

[aggie08 21496]

1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

And of course, this thread doesn't want to hear it, but that's exactly the discipline we get from our Father-- there is truth and discipline, but also grace (love, for when you screw it up).

**ducks**

I'm glad that religion works out for you and your family--sincerely--but anyone pushing the "what these kids need these days is more Jesus" agenda can get all the way fucked.

Good and bad parents will still be good or bad parents with or without religion.

[MissingInAction 25036]

I was in a 6 piece band in high school. I played tambourine and bongos. We sucked but still got laid.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

7 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

I was in a 6 piece band in high school. I played tambourine and bongos. We sucked but still got laid.

[mchookem 16327]

21 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The public sector is inefficient compared to the private sector as experienced by the client because the public sector’s budgets, hiring authorities, and revenues are set by the legislative process which is not responsive to shifting demands, technologies, etc.  Even the highly professionalized public sectors are vulnerable to this, as you can see when the Army decides it doesn’t need a base anymore but Congress says it does. And we keep electing people who tell you outright that they are going to deliver less efficient and good services in exchange for lower taxes.  
 

You can’t throw some genius MBAs at that simple dynamic and fix it. There are not a bunch of geniuses who ruthlessly manage geniuses in the private sector.  They just are able to redistribute and invest resources in a quicker and more focused way because they don’t have a whole bunch of elected barons who are only accountable to voters they can dupe calling the shots. 
 

LOL, the private sector actively fucks up the public sector. The IRS has a pilot online filing system in some places that’s actually pretty good.  It took this long and you can’t use it because private tax preparers have been lobbying to keep the IRS paper based and shit.  

'drown it in the bathtub' and then bitch that it's dead. 🙄

[Frank Drebin 5663]

14 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

I was in a 6 piece band in high school. I played tambourine and bongos. We sucked but still got laid.

Did he treat you nice after?

[956 Worldwide 34705]

20 minutes ago, mchookem said:

'drown it in the bathtub' and then bitch that it's dead. 🙄

I don’t know about the state side but on the fed side there are fewer non-military employees in absolute numbers than any time since 1965.  Fed employment peaked in the early 1990s.

I imagine many clerk type jobs just expired as IT got better but that’s still a pretty astounding number while tracking population growth. A lot of U.S. public sector is remarkably efficient and functioning especially when compared to even developed nation counterparts but people aren’t ready to have that discussion.

[Captainant 27653]

10 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I imagine many clerk type jobs just expired as IT got better but that’s still a pretty astounding number while tracking population growth. A lot of U.S. public sector is remarkably efficient and functioning especially when compared to even developed nation counterparts but people aren’t ready to have that discussion.

Well duh then they wouldn't have as many talking points about how the gubmint is bad and inefficient as a way to pitch you on buying their crypto 

[Biff Tannen 45673]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Anyone want to sign up for my cult?

 

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

I'm glad that religion works out for you and your family--sincerely--but anyone pushing the "what these kids need these days is more Jesus" agenda can get all the way fucked.

Good and bad parents will still be good or bad parents with or without religion.

Lol, I completely missed the reference to god here.  I literally thought he meant his father.

[UpperWestside 6162]

On 3/20/2024 at 7:47 PM, Captainant said:

A large portion of that is that there's nowhere else for them to go but online. The third place is dead. 

But also, this whole thing is much larger than one singularly addressable ill. It's not something where just putting the phone down fixes everything else 

I read a study addressing this and how horrific the consequences are of detaching from the natural world and spending too much time on social media and electronics in general. Nature is a natural soothing agent for us and we have largely abandoned “putting our feet in the dirt” in favor of spending all of our time indoors or in concrete jungles. We have to find ways to connect with real people in outdoor spaces as well as time alone in nature. These are steps we have the capability of pursuing and doing.
 

This is something I learned on my own. Living in New York is cool, but the lack of nature and free space to roam and be one with the natural world has been detrimental in certain ways for me personally. 

[UpperWestside 6162]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

 

Lol, I completely missed the reference to god here.  I literally thought he meant his father.

Yeah this is not the place for that, but the religious gonna religious no matter what. I steer completely clear of people who put out their religious beliefs constantly about every situation. If I need to consider how my own beliefs cause me to think of a situation I can easily keep that to myself because there is no need to share it over and over.
 

When people I work with want to talk to me about life the first thing I do is listen and let them describe their life and what they want to change. I never bring my beliefs into what they should do in order to feel better. I just tell them you have one life and that the best thing to do is take each day as a gift and do better today than the day before. From there it’s easier to talk about life.

[Boss Hogg 808]

7 hours ago, F250 said:

A Spanish surname. It's just one of those things that is always in the back of your head.

We are melanin-challenged in my family. So I've heard different variations of "You look different than I expected" then they pronounce my last name and make one of those "huh" faces. My sisters never got these questions but people often assumed their last name was their married names.

When you experience this all your life you get an understanding that your last name on paper will generate assumptions.

People often expect this guy to show up when they see my name.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

wait, where do y'all live in Texas that anyone GAF about Spanish surnames?

[956 Worldwide 34705]

7 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Yeah this is not the place for that, but the religious gonna religious no matter what. I steer completely clear of people who put out their religious beliefs constantly about every situation. If I need to consider how my own beliefs cause me to think of a situation I can easily keep that to myself because there is no need to share it over and over.
 

When people I work with want to talk to me about life the first thing I do is listen and let them describe their life and what they want to change. I never bring my beliefs into what they should do in order to feel better. I just tell them you have one life and that the best thing to do is take each day as a gift and do better today than the day before. From there it’s easier to talk about life.

If I’m talking to someone I’m close to and care about I’ll let them stage set and then ask: “tell me what you most need from me— are you needing my support, are you looking for my best objective advice, or do you just need to vent?”  It’s a useful way to frame things and people will admit they just want to vent or want to hear support more often than you’d think. If they choose “advice” and then immediately start telling me why I’m wrong or the advice won’t work, then I tell them that no one knows their own situation and what they are able to live with better than they do and stop giving advice. 
 

With work randos I’ll run through the “wow, dang, that’s really tough” cycle. And at the end say something like “sounds like you’ve got some hard decisions, what do you think is the best choice?” Then affirm whatever they say and send them on their way. 
 

I find people are rarely grateful for, or seeking actual insight. 

[YGIFS 19450]

3 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I was in a 6 piece band in high school. I played tambourine and bongos. We sucked but still got laid.

Aye, Dios Mio! 

(and then this one time, at Tambourine Camp...)

[F250 28767]

46 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

wait, where do y'all live in Texas that anyone GAF about Spanish surnames?

Are you implying that Hispanics in Texas are not subject to prejudicial, racist or discriminatory behavior? Despite all of the fucking history in Texas that can demonstrate it, is this the point you are trying to make?

 

[Nivek 16923]

5 hours ago, BeardIP said:

And of course, this thread doesn't want to hear it, but that's exactly the discipline we get from our Father-- there is truth and discipline, but also grace (love, for when you screw it up).

**ducks**

What is discipline and truth?   Are people of different faiths or those without faith untruthful and undisciplined?   Can someone develop this skill on their own?   Where does it come from then?

[hayden_horn 11362]

9 hours ago, F250 said:

I understand Shrier is an attorney and an opinion columnist which makes me skeptical of her science background.

Is there data that indicates that these things that you listed are happening on a scale large enough to influence an entire or significant portion of a generation of children?

I ask because most of this just sounds like someone bitching about participation trophies and pronoun usage being the cause for the downfall of civilization.

i am gonna argue that it's lack of mental health care, specifically for vets and their families, that have the boomers (specifically but it goes all the way back to world war 1) all fucked in the head thinking that seeking mental health care somehow makes people soft.  that's how the cruelty became the point. 

[UpperWestside 6162]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

If I’m talking to someone I’m close to and care about I’ll let them stage set and then ask: “tell me what you most need from me— are you needing my support, are you looking for my best objective advice, or do you just need to vent?”  It’s a useful way to frame things and people will admit they just want to vent or want to hear support more often than you’d think. If they choose “advice” and then immediately start telling me why I’m wrong or the advice won’t work, then I tell them that no one knows their own situation and what they are able to live with better than they do and stop giving advice. 
 

With work randos I’ll run through the “wow, dang, that’s really tough” cycle. And at the end say something like “sounds like you’ve got some hard decisions, what do you think is the best choice?” Then affirm whatever they say and send them on their way. 
 

I find people are rarely grateful for, or seeking actual insight. 

Thank you for this response. I have found that for whatever reason the entirety of my adult life people will spill out their guts to me whether they know me well or not. Sometimes I hear hours worth of the life of a stranger, but it’s cool. I will truly listen to most anyone because it allows them to get out what bothers them and I in turn learn more about people, which for me is pretty interesting. 
 

The advice I give is usually taken pretty well, but I frame it in a way to where I do not say something that I haven’t been through myself. I always tells folks don’t fall on your face as many times as I did before you get it right. 

[Brisketexan 105095]

wait, where do y'all live in Texas that anyone GAF about Spanish surnames?

Are you implying that Hispanics in Texas are not subject to prejudicial, racist or discriminatory behavior? Despite all of the fucking history in Texas that can demonstrate it, is this the point you are trying to make?
 

Yeah…I mean…I live in “The Texas part of Texas.” You know, the part that for decades had actual Juan Crow laws, and the part that doesn’t want us to vote today. Among a crapload of other shit. And the part that questions whether we’re REAL Americans loyal to our country, cuz, you know….dirty beaners.
Jesus. The fucking purposeful ignorance of reality.

[Anastasis 23469]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:21 AM, Guadaloopy said:

Everyone who confuses causation with correlation is going to die.

[Anastasis 23469]

This isn't really hard. Traditional social and community networks are being degraded, the replacements lack substance in a holistic sense, and the pace of the transition is not something that the human species has previously navigated. The ability to perceive anxiety and depression are natural responses that we have evolved. Maybe protective, maybe culling. I guess we will find out. 

 

Edited March 23 by Anastasis

[956 Worldwide 34705]

In hopeful news, social media app use is down across the board.  Musk’s shit show is the worst, of course. 
 

I’d he curious to see what the demographics are. I’d bet olds are using apps more than youngs. My pre-teens tell me that being an “iPad kid” is lame. I am on social media passively for work and have noticed that the twenty somethings post a lot less than 30 and up even if they maintain a presence. 

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

The fucking olds are on social media 10x more than anyone else. My mother and father (mid 60’s) are the worst offenders. Not a single visit with them goes by where one or both them will go off on some societal/political rant, and when you make the unfortunate mistake of engaging them like I do, you discover the rant to be based upon something “I heard”. Ask a few more questions and they didn’t actually “hear” anything; they saw a fucking meme from some slapdick troll account named Barry Mccockinner and ran with it. These are intelligent, college educated people getting spun up by total nonsense. Absolutely insane.

[956 Worldwide 34705]

2 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

The fucking olds are on social media 10x more than anyone else. My mother and father (mid 60’s) are the worst offenders. Not a single visit with them goes by where one or both them will go off on some societal/political rant, and when you make the unfortunate mistake of engaging them like I do, you discover the rant to be based upon something “I heard”. Ask a few more questions and they didn’t actually “hear” anything; they saw a fucking meme from some slapdick troll account named Barry Mccockinner and ran with it. These are intelligent, college educated people getting spun up by total nonsense. Absolutely insane.

It’s like having the TV on nonstop at home, noise that you don’t realize is actually soaking in. 

[Helobious 9448]

14 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

In hopeful news, social media app use is down across the board.  Musk’s shit show is the worst, of course. 
 

I’d he curious to see what the demographics are. I’d bet olds are using apps more than youngs. My pre-teens tell me that being an “iPad kid” is lame. I am on social media passively for work and have noticed that the twenty somethings post a lot less than 30 and up even if they maintain a presence. 

I have some younger cousins in middle/high school. You’re definitely considered lame among them if you post on social media a lot. 
 

There’s also a weird badge of honor thing to have a lot of followers on instagram while having just a couple or even zero pictures posted.

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

It’s like having the TV on nonstop at home, noise that you don’t realize is actually soaking in. 

I don’t understand the willful ignorance of people, my parents included. I also don’t understand the intentional consumption of negativity.

Example: I opened Instagram this morning while finishing up my cardio because it’s a distraction from the mundane. Chad Prather was at the top of my feed. I started following him 7-8?? years ago because he was a standup comedian that I found humorous. He has now morphed into a hateful, absolute lunatic right wing nutter . The video that he posted this morning was him reacting/responding to a Dylan Mulvaney post, and of course it was hateful and derogatory. I did what I should have done long ago and unfollowed Chad. Not because I am a fan of Mr./Mrs. Mulvaney because I am not at all, but because I refuse to intentionally subject myself to that kind of negativity. It has to be a truly miserable existence to devote so much of your time and energy to being negative like that. But there are hundreds/thousands of comments on that post and many others just like it that echo Chad’s words or add even more hatefulness to them.

[Poester 109]

Good times produce weak men, we’re somewhere on that trajectory. As a parent of Gen alphas, and that is hilariously ironic, I can tell you that generation is going to struggle. Between missing formative years of school from COVID and their addiction to these little iPads I see at every dinner table, they’re turbo fucked. 

[YGIFS 19450]

10 hours ago, Anastasis said:

This isn't really hard. Traditional social and community networks are being degraded, the replacements lack substance in a holistic sense, and the pace of the transition is not something that the human species has previously navigated. The ability to perceive anxiety and depression are natural responses that we have evolved. Maybe protective, maybe culling. I guess we will find out.

"Traditional Social Networks?"  Are you talking about the American/Western atomic family, or?  97% of humans whom have ever existed did not live in what that type of model.  97% of all humans were not born to Judeo-Christian wed parents.  It was something we invented to hide our shame.  

10 minutes ago, Poester said:

Good times produce weak men, we’re somewhere on that trajectory. As a parent of Gen alphas, and that is hilariously ironic, I can tell you that generation is going to struggle. Between missing formative years of school from COVID and their addiction to these little iPads I see at every dinner table, they’re turbo fucked. 

Yeah, I used to think I was old man yelling at clouds.  But spending more time on my school board and cyberbullying and counselors talking about screen addiction and shit, I've finally opened my eyes.  This is actually a real thing.  We can whine as old men about participation trophies and lack of respect and tattoos and all that.  But it's becoming incredibly apparently young brains are simply not "jiving" with frequent screen interaction.  I'm not judging 'em, but we spent an hour a day at school in the computer lab and maybe an hour of TV at night and some VHS movies on the weekends, and we didn't turn out great---but we made it out alive.  This is just fucking nuts.  We had two meetings on this past week with some experts (who granted were there to sell our ISD their services, but the data don't lie).  It's getting way fucking weirder way fucking faster than I initially thought.  I mean, we were fine with during Kinder when she was remote learning and face-timiing with friends 'n shit (she was getting a healthy dose of distance playing with young kinds in our 'hood and local park).  And then it reached a healthy balance in 1st and 2nd, but now in 3rd...it's getting surreal.  We implement a lot of timers and rules 'n shit, but it's hard to do when half her fucking class has cell phones already.  I was just naive about it.  I knew it'd be an issue for her, but maybe not until junior high.  Not freakin' 3rd grade.  /cloudrant

[Foosters 17850]

40 minutes ago, Poester said:

Good times produce weak men, we’re somewhere on that trajectory. As a parent of Gen alphas, and that is hilariously ironic, I can tell you that generation is going to struggle. Between missing formative years of school from COVID and their addiction to these little iPads I see at every dinner table, they’re turbo fucked. 

If this is the metric, it would follow that the weakest men were born from the 50s-90s. Exactly the demographic that would be in charge of running everything now.

Oh....

[956 Worldwide 34705]

Every time I see the “good times create weak men” discourse I have to recall that most of human history consists of hard-ass warrior societies getting their shit pushed in by rich, comfortable societies where people know how to read and pack good yummies for their soldiers. 

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

"Traditional Social Networks?"  Are you talking about the American/Western atomic family, or?  97% of humans whom have ever existed did not live in what that type of model.  97% of all humans were not born to Judeo-Christian wed parents.  It was something we invented to hide our shame.  

I think if I were to try to reduce it to the principal component, it would be, you know, like, real world social interactions between humans. You can tell me what you mean by the "American/Western atomic family" and we could talk about that I guess, and I do think that the human family unit is important and that a culture that supports the family unit in all of its shapes and sizes in a good thing. I personally think that a multigenerational family unit that involves social interactions between individuals across the entire spectrum of the human life cycle has certain benefits. But the social network is not just the family unit. That is just one aspect you zeroed in on. 

[Sawbonz 27546]

3 hours ago, Helobious said:

There’s also a weird badge of honor thing to have a lot of followers on instagram while having just a couple or even zero pictures posted

All their posts are on their finsta 

[YGIFS 19450]

34 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think if I were to try to reduce it to the principal component, it would be, you know, like, real world social interactions between humans. You can tell me what you mean by the "American/Western atomic family" and we could talk about that I guess, and I do think that the human family unit is important and that a culture that supports the family unit in all of its shapes and sizes in a good thing. I personally think that a multigenerational family unit that involves social interactions between individuals across the entire spectrum of the human life cycle has certain benefits. But the social network is not just the family unit. That is just one aspect you zeroed in on. 

Yeah, I was talking more about the in-person "social network" as opposed to what we now think of as the "social network" in the media/online/digital sense.  Shit, that's a head-scratcher for another thread.  We don't even know what the fuck we're talking about when we say "community" or "social interaction" because of where's it's gone.  Whole other nightmare to unpack.  Woo-hoo!  Happy Palm Sunday everybody!  Heading into the Disch for some god-given baseball.  

[956 Worldwide 34705]

The best family structure is the one I grew up in. Unless of course I hated my childhood and family, in which case it is a Tool of Oppression. 

[Anastasis 23469]

Relevant to the topic. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/03/teen-childhood-smartphone-use-mental-health-effects/677722/

 

 

 

 

[Nivek 16923]

If this is the metric, it would follow that the weakest men were born from the 50s-90s. Exactly the demographic that would be in charge of running everything now.
Oh....

See our systemic racism is just building future good men!

[BabaYaga 15290]

On 3/24/2024 at 12:33 AM, Anastasis said:

Relevant to the topic. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/03/teen-childhood-smartphone-use-mental-health-effects/677722/

 

 

 

 

Haidt has been tracking this for some time now.  His previous book "fragility of the American mind" addressed this as well.  Story is behind a paywall, but I've followed him on enough podcasts to know what he's talking about - specifically regarding cell phones.  He teaches as at NYU.  He asked his class why so many are on social media.  The primary answer all parent hear is that everyone else is.  His next question was if everyone else was off, ie., these sites were shut down, would you support that.  Almost all said yes.  The kids see the problems, they are just sucked into the gravity of all their peers being on them as well.

His new book has four steps he's pushing for to try and get these kids off these damn sites.  They escape me at the moment, but the point was it wasn't covid that sent so many into a tailspin.  The rates were already skyrocketing well before covid.

[Captainant 27653]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Haidt has been tracking this for some time now.  His previous book "fragility of the American mind" addressed this as well.  Story is behind a paywall, but I've followed him on enough podcasts to know what he's talking about - specifically regarding cell phones.  He teaches as at NYU.  He asked his class why so many are on social media.  The primary answer all parent hear is that everyone else is.  His next question was if everyone else was off, ie., these sites were shut down, would you support that.  Almost all said yes.  The kids see the problems, they are just sucked into the gravity of all their peers being on them as well.

His new book has four steps he's pushing for to try and get these kids off these damn sites.  They escape me at the moment, but the point was it wasn't covid that sent so many into a tailspin.  The rates were already skyrocketing well before covid.

IMO you're missing the bigger picture if your end course of action is to demonize a particular type of website. The bigger problem that enabled and fuels and allows the micro targeting and doomscrolling, is that it's open season on buying and selling user data. My wife bought some pregnancy books on Amazon, and all of a sudden Instagram was pushing all sorts of horrific pregnancy stories to her feed. It was like as soon as one entity knew, they all knew, and they all wanted to put the most upsetting thing in front of her that would keep her scrolling. 

Yes, social media was the mechanism that actually expressed the negativity - but it would not be so all encompassing and overwhelming if people had any sort of right to privacy on the internet. THAT is the larger and more common denominator, moreso than any one type of website

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Haidt has been tracking this for some time now.  His previous book "fragility of the American mind" addressed this as well.  Story is behind a paywall, but I've followed him on enough podcasts to know what he's talking about - specifically regarding cell phones.  He teaches as at NYU.  He asked his class why so many are on social media.  The primary answer all parent hear is that everyone else is.  His next question was if everyone else was off, ie., these sites were shut down, would you support that.  Almost all said yes.  The kids see the problems, they are just sucked into the gravity of all their peers being on them as well.

His new book has four steps he's pushing for to try and get these kids off these damn sites.  They escape me at the moment, but the point was it wasn't covid that sent so many into a tailspin.  The rates were already skyrocketing well before covid.

We absolutely ran into some of this with our children and the worst offender was the ISD and I told them so. Setting aside peer pressure (and that goes for adults pressuring other adults as well), we had made the decision: no phone until 8th grade and had stuck by that but the *schools made it more and more difficult with classroom techniques ('everyone pull out your phones and ____") and so on. I met with teachers, administrators, etc but it was yelling into the fog. We used the phone as a tool, rather like a map, but many adults use it like a pacifier--both for themselves and for their children.

 

*All of our children were post 8th by pandemic occurence.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

IMO you're missing the bigger picture if your end course of action is to demonize a particular type of website. The bigger problem that enabled and fuels and allows the micro targeting and doomscrolling, is that it's open season on buying and selling user data. My wife bought some pregnancy books on Amazon, and all of a sudden Instagram was pushing all sorts of horrific pregnancy stories to her feed. It was like as soon as one entity knew, they all knew, and they all wanted to put the most upsetting thing in front of her that would keep her scrolling. 

Yes, social media was the mechanism that actually expressed the negativity - but it would not be so all encompassing and overwhelming if people had any sort of right to privacy on the internet. THAT is the larger and more common denominator, moreso than any one type of website

Same--wedding related purchases, announcements push weight loss regimens and diet products to women....relative was relating this to me and it's really maddening and also sad.

[BabaYaga 15290]

6 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

We absolutely ran into some of this with our children and the worst offender was the ISD and I told them so. Setting aside peer pressure (and that goes for adults pressuring other adults as well), we had made the decision: no phone until 8th grade and had stuck by that but the *schools made it more and more difficult with classroom techniques ('everyone pull out your phones and ____") and so on. I met with teachers, administrators, etc but it was yelling into the fog. We used the phone as a tool, rather like a map, but many adults use it like a pacifier--both for themselves and for their children.

 

*All of our children were post 8th by pandemic occurence.

I know more than a few people that are switching back to the old flip phone.  Calls.  Texts.  That's basically it.  They seem to love it.  Problem with doing this with kids is the amount of shit their peers will rain down on them with their new smart phones.  

We've tried to mitigate this with both kids via sports.  Get the kids outside.  Put them in situations where they are being pushed.  Earn "real" accolades.  Not clicks and likes.  Create your own gravity, and do not get sucked into that of others.  We have land, so spending time out there helps, albeit I recognize it's a gift not all have.  Oldest boy likes to game, so we now go to the shooting range every weekend and rent "those guns" he plays with.  It's expensive, but he loves it.  This weekend we compared 1911's to the "John Wick" guns he sees in the movies with comp slides and reticles.  He likes the 1911.  Frisco Gun range has an SBR.  "Ok kid, let me see what you got".  Loading the mags is a PITA.  Not like the games huh?  Oh, and they're loud AS SHIT.  Not easy to hold steady are they?  Spent casing hit you in the face?  

He still loves it, but the perspective is there as well.  Now all he wants to do is practice, so it's a start.  

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

IMO you're missing the bigger picture if your end course of action is to demonize a particular type of website. The bigger problem that enabled and fuels and allows the micro targeting and doomscrolling, is that it's open season on buying and selling user data.

Haidt's thesis is much broader than just focussing on one particular type of website. It's the broader impact and balance between multiple factors during childhood psychological development. Social media is just one aspect. Independence, free play, and social interactions in the real world is another. An excerpt:

Quote

 

Human childhood and adolescence evolved outdoors, in a physical world full of dangers and opportunities. Its central activities––play, exploration, and intense socializing––were largely unsupervised by adults, allowing children to make their own choices, resolve their own conflicts, and take care of one another. Shared adventures and shared adversity bound young people together into strong friendship clusters within which they mastered the social dynamics of small groups, which prepared them to master bigger challenges and larger groups later on.

And then we changed childhood.

....

But overprotection is only part of the story. The transition away from a more independent childhood was facilitated by steady improvements in digital technology, which made it easier and more inviting for young people to spend a lot more time at home, indoors, and alone in their rooms. Eventually, tech companies got access to children 24/7. They developed exciting virtual activities, engineered for “engagement,” that are nothing like the real-world experiences young brains evolved to expect.

 

Here is a non-paywalled link to the Atlantic piece: https://archive.is/ZBCJl 

Baba alluded to Haidt's proposed four point solution:

* No smartphones before high school

* No social media before 16

* Phone-free schools

* More independence, free play, and responsibility in the real world

Edited March 25 by Anastasis