The Kids (Aren't) Alright - World Happiness Report

[BabaYaga 15289]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The bad actors don't need to influence every policy.  They only need to control a select few.  And they're smart about being selective....or at least, they have been.  They are becoming so emboldened that now, many are trying to control everything, in service to their ego and narcissism (see Tim Dunn).  Give anyone too much slack in the rope, and eventually they'll bolt full-speed.

See my point about good people working at Lehmans or AIG.  When I say "evert facet" I'm not literally talking about every person.  I mean it's flowing down from DC into almost all facets of state and local government to some extent.  So do you root out all the bad actors and hope the next crop are "better", or do you make systemic changes so future bad actors can't hide?

[Brisketexan 105079]

27 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So do you root out all the bad actors and hope the next crop are "better", or do you make systemic changes so future bad actors can't hide?

You do both.  AND, we do our best to raise the next generations of civic and public leaders to be and do better.  That starts by showing them that we think that bad acts are bad, and shouldn't be rewarded.

It's a complex problem involving multiple angles and directions of human nature and behavior.  We'll never get it PERFECT, because the flawed thing called "people" is involved.  But we can do better.  Much better.

And again, it really ISN'T flowing down to almost all facets of state and local government.  The bulk of what they do is boring, blocking-and-tackling stuff.  Other than the basest level grift ("hey, I could award the pothole filling contract to my brother-in-law"), there's just not much interest in it going crooked.  Now, do the potholes in the neighborhood where the whiny rich people live get filled in sooner than those in the poor part of town?  Likely.  And that's one of those "system" issues: it's generally not because someone at the office says "we have to help out Karen, she's fancy," it's going to be driven by who calls the most.  And busybody Karen will call 10X for every call that Working Class William will make.

You deal with current individuals who are shitty.  You improve/reform systems that are broken, easily exploited, etc.  You develop good leaders and a sense of civic and social responsibility, so our bench has talent on it.  It takes a lot of work.  And it takes time. 

[YGIFS 19449]

This is the prosperity gospel meets dry heaving bile into the toilet after drinking too much.  
 

“Just give me $1 billion dollars and your support and I will make everything all better and your worries will be over and I will exact revenge on your enemies!” 

-but we gave you $1 billion dollars and support in 2016 and 2020!  

“Yes.  But this time I really mean it!”  

[immamac 42838]

8 hours ago, Parliament said:

You got a link by any chance?  I'd like some context.

The YouTube video. 

Also @52-80 been busy as hell today, great additions on keeping the conversation honest in here. We talked about this in another thread, and I think people get confused with real income and the quality/share of income as a product of the GDP. 

I think one thing that’s obviously unclear is how much of the American economy is funded by pure debt. According to a WF analyst and confirmed by many others this week all of the BNPL schemes are phantom debt and it’s estimated to be in the hundreds of billions on top of the already all time high consumer revolving debt. The debt load and servicing as a share of income are definitely way out of wack on the lower end of the income spectrum. 

Check out this video. It’s a long watch and there’s a bit of hyperbole in parts, but mostly it’s true and talks about the key components of the societal shift that is leading to the feeling of unease and general turmoil. 

 

[immamac 42838]

8 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Oculus guy, Luckey Palmer. 2 of the 3 Doordash guys. All a tick over 30, worth over $1B before they hit 30.
 

And if you count hundreds of $M, plenty of other silicon valley products - many immigrants - who werent seeded with family money. 

Palmer wasn’t a billionaire before 30 and still technically isn’t a liquid billionaire. 

Doordash guys are late 30s pushing 40 and 2020 IPO they were 35-36. 

The fact remains that there are no non acquisition, liquid self-made billionaires. It’s an absurd measurement, but the point remains that there are many sub 30 year old billionaires who are all nepo billionaires. 

There are some wealthy individuals no doubt, and we aren’t counting some of the crypto people who are shadow whales, however there are very few non inflated/speculative paper hundred millionaire under 30 either. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

and a sense of civic and social responsibility

Haha.  In some circles that’s seen as a “weakness”.  That’s a big problem.

[fattyflattie 4639]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

For fuck’s sake (and I promise I’m not trying to go CR here, just offering an example from TODAY, one of our two leading candidates for POTUS just expressly offered a quid pro quo to O&G execs, telling them that they need to donate/raise $1 billion for his campaign, and then he’ll deliver on regs and laws favorable to their industry).  The politician is shit.  The people who own and direct him are really shit.

Bruh, we are actively and continually dumping 10’s of billions of dollars into a country that just got thru dumping millions into POTUS’ crack addicted sons bank account.  For fucks sake. 

[Captainant 27638]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Bruh, we are actively and continually dumping 10’s of billions of dollars into a country that just got thru dumping millions into POTUS’ crack addicted sons bank account.  For fucks sake. 

Excuse me, are we back to the Burisma russian propaganda story? What the fuck is going on lol

[F250 28764]

[956 Worldwide 34704]

6 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Bruh, we are actively and continually dumping 10’s of billions of dollars into a country that just got thru dumping millions into POTUS’ crack addicted sons bank account.  For fucks sake. 

Oh fuck off with this. 

[fattyflattie 4639]

3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Oh fuck off with this. 

Hard to digest but…

[956 Worldwide 34704]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Palmer wasn’t a billionaire before 30 and still technically isn’t a liquid billionaire. 

Doordash guys are late 30s pushing 40 and 2020 IPO they were 35-36. 

The fact remains that there are no non acquisition, liquid self-made billionaires. It’s an absurd measurement, but the point remains that there are many sub 30 year old billionaires who are all nepo billionaires. 

There are some wealthy individuals no doubt, and we aren’t counting some of the crypto people who are shadow whales, however there are very few non inflated/speculative paper hundred millionaire under 30 either. 

Reminds me of a story, a guy gives a speech as he ends his presidency of the local Rotary Club.  He gives an inspiring stemwinder about making your way, wearing out shoe leather, and building something yourself. “When I arrived in town 45 years ago, all I had was in a paper bag and the clothes on my back!”

The speech wraps up and it’s question time. “Sir, can you tell us what was in the paper bag?”

”400k in cash and 2.5 million in bonds. And a few hundred thousand in stocks..” 

[956 Worldwide 34704]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Hard to digest but…

Go peddle anti-Ukraine garbage on Truth Social. 

[immamac 42838]

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Reminds me of a story, a guy gives a speech as he ends his presidency of the local Rotary Club.  He gives an inspiring stemwinder about making your way, wearing out shoe leather, and building something yourself. “When I arrived in town 45 years ago, all I had was in a paper bag and the clothes on my back!”

The speech wraps up and it’s question time. “Sir, can you tell us what was in the paper bag?”

”400k in cash and 2.5 million in bonds. And a few hundred thousand in stocks..” 

Lmfao 

[fattyflattie 4639]

9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

It's not hard.  Bottom line, treat our human beings as CAPEX, not OPEX.

Your analogy is weak, counselor. The people you are wanting to support wouldn’t be considered either in any successful corp.  3 generations of never accomplished shit isn’t Capex, it would have long been on a divestment schedule.  Also known as throwing good money at bad.  Successful corps flood their lotto tickets with support and capital.   You obviously can’t divest human beings (we dump loads and loads of good money on bad), so best to work on another analogy.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

No.  And the motivation for doing so matters.

If I believe that policy X will be good for society as a whole, and I stump on that policy, and if policy X has a particular benefit for group Y, then yes, I will likely see more votes from group Y.  But am I pushing policy X to do something that I believe is good, or because I want to buy votes?  The motivation matters.

When you couch all policy and social choices in terms of a quid pro quo, then you are actually FOSTERING that approach.  I don't believe that Joe Biden has pushed student loan forgiveness as a naked ploy to buy votes.  He believes in the policy.  Sure, he's happy to GET the votes that will result, but that's not the motive.  Now, Biden has done OTHER things that were 100% a quid pro quo for votes/campaign money (see his sponsorship of the "Bankruptcy Reform Act" when he was in the Senate -- as nakedly a political quid pro quo that rewarded banks and fucked people as you'll ever see), but I think that actually helps provide us some contrast.  Shit, Biden's wishy-washiness on Israel/Gaza is him being calculating and political and counting votes -- I don't know what he actually "believes" on the issue, I'm confident that he's positioning himself on it purely for campaign reasons.  Is he doing what the people want, as a leader should?  Is he just positioning himself for votes?  Is he doing both?

Shit, I believe in this country.  I love this country.  If given the power, I would push many different policies.  Many of which would be liked by one constituency or another, meaning those constituencies would be more likely to vote for me next time.  But that wouldn't be WHY I am doing those things.  Do good and right, and the votes will follow.

Shit, I've found that in my approach to business.  I do good work.  I do right by people, even when it doesn't benefit me.  My reputation is what it is because of that, and the work/new work follows.  It's much harder to quantify than any direct quid pro quo, but I've found that the yield rate is more than I could hope for.  It's a good way of being in the world.  And of being a leader.  I'd like to see more of that.

Not serious post. 

[Ted Lange 16084]

10 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Seems incomplete. And to be clear, that's just tuition. Tack on another sizeable portion for housing and food. But it feels incomplete, since most things I've read indicate that public school tution has increased almost 200% since 2004. In twenty years.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/see-20-years-of-tuition-growth-at-national-universities

 

Of course that chart doesn't take into account inflation. But with inflation, which is included in the link, it's still striking. And again, this is tuition. 

Just wait until Texas effectively privatizes K-12 education, we can have a rising cost of grade school graph and student loan forgiveness arguments over kids who are still delinquent on their HS loans!   

[52-80 19147]

7 hours ago, immamac said:

Palmer wasn’t a billionaire before 30 and still technically isn’t a liquid billionaire. 

Doordash guys are late 30s pushing 40 and 2020 IPO they were 35-36. 

The fact remains that there are no non acquisition, liquid self-made billionaires. It’s an absurd measurement, but the point remains that there are many sub 30 year old billionaires who are all nepo billionaires. 

There are some wealthy individuals no doubt, and we aren’t counting some of the crypto people who are shadow whales, however there are very few non inflated/speculative paper hundred millionaire under 30 either. 

Oculus only needed to raise to Series B, and sold for $2B.  With 25% equity, Palmers' shares in FB would've been worth $1B in 2016 or if he converted to SPX wouldve been 2019.  He also would've had a massive chunk of Anduril, which landed a $1B deal with DoD before he turned 30. Put in a tech multiple and Anduril by itself is in the diez-commas club. 

Doordash's 2020 S-1 (IPO) filing revealed co-founder Stanley Tang was 27 and Andy Fang was 28.  Only Tony Xu was 36.  The IPO also went bonkers as it was offered at $102 and basically opened double and stayed there in the $200s while those dudes were in their 20s.

[52-80 19147]

But yes, its an absurd measurement. Whether a dude was worth $700M or $1.3B at age 29 or age 33 is beside the point.

That the worlds economic system rewards winning competitive endeavors is completely "natural".  The reward being determined by actual consumers of those products, even if you yourself are not one directly. 

Out there is a person or a firm that's really wealthy from being the best at mining and refining silicone. And another one that's good for turning it into wafers. And another one that's good at designing chips and circuitry and boards. And another that's good at writing low level software, and high level software. And another one at making radio antennas, and LCD displays, and ad infinitum. And they're all fucking rich and have yachts and college protestors all over will decry them as ruthless capitalists and shit.

And the cumulative result of all of that is now there exists a handheld device that Americans use for 4-5 hours a day, everyday, for 4-5 years, and it'll have cost them a total of 20 hours of average gross wage.  That's fucking amazing. 

People being allowed - encouraged, even - to pursue wealth by creating things that other people value is a good thing.  What does it matter if they were seeded with outside money or parental money.  And anyway if you have a problem with that, you have a problem specifically with inheritance tax, not with "the system".  It's pretty cool that normal people have the option to get basically whatever food they want, whereas in the past they were limited to 2 pizzerias and 3 chinese shops in their city.  I don't use Doordash, I don't contribute to their revenue, I don't buy their stock . But the mere fact that they're rich doesn't make you or me poor.  A lot of this grumble is really just driven by ego.

[YGIFS 19449]

9 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Bruh, we are actively and continually dumping 10’s of billions of dollars into a country that just got thru dumping millions into POTUS’ crack addicted sons bank account.  For fucks sake. 

Tell me you don’t know how European Wars tend to spread without telling me you don’t know how European Wars tend to spread.  C’mon man, you’re smarter than this.  Or did somebody tell you NATO stands for “Nobody Attacks Trump Organization!”

Edited May 10 by YGIFS

[BabaYaga 15289]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

But the mere fact that they're rich doesn't make you or me poor.

The crux of most of the argument

[Shut up Lou Holtz 2026]

11 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Bruh, we are actively and continually dumping 10’s of billions of dollars into a country that just got thru dumping millions into POTUS’ crack addicted sons bank account.  For fucks sake. 

Hunter Biden laptop, drink!!! But really, Fox News talking point doesn’t bolster your statement like you think it does 

[immamac 42838]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

But yes, its an absurd measurement. Whether a dude was worth $700M or $1.3B at age 29 or age 33 is beside the point.

That the worlds economic system rewards winning competitive endeavors is completely "natural".  The reward being determined by actual consumers of those products, even if you yourself are not one directly. 

Out there is a person or a firm that's really wealthy from being the best at mining and refining silicone. And another one that's good for turning it into wafers. And another one that's good at designing chips and circuitry and boards. And another that's good at writing low level software, and high level software. And another one at making radio antennas, and LCD displays, and ad infinitum. And they're all fucking rich and have yachts and college protestors all over will decry them as ruthless capitalists and shit.

And the cumulative result of all of that is now there exists a handheld device that Americans use for 4-5 hours a day, everyday, for 4-5 years, and it'll have cost them a total of 20 hours of average gross wage.  That's fucking amazing. 

People being allowed - encouraged, even - to pursue wealth by creating things that other people value is a good thing.  What does it matter if they were seeded with outside money or parental money.  And anyway if you have a problem with that, you have a problem specifically with inheritance tax, not with "the system".  It's pretty cool that normal people have the option to get basically whatever food they want, whereas in the past they were limited to 2 pizzerias and 3 chinese shops in their city.  I don't use Doordash, I don't contribute to their revenue, I don't buy their stock . But the mere fact that they're rich doesn't make you or me poor.  A lot of this grumble is really just driven by ego.

Except it's not, the revenues and the real business behind a lot of these endeavors is actually dogshit and provides extremely limited to negative value. The point I was making is people are being rewarded on paper and with incredibly insane exits for no real reason except rampant out of control speculation. Since we are on the oculus example because of how "brilliant" Palmer Luckey is. To date there is less than 2B in total revenue for all oculus related activity. That has come at a cost of the 2B acquisition, which they swiftly threw away the initial product, the entire software framework and all of what they bought and removed a player from the market and replaced it with another round of internal investment which is known to be in the 50-60B dollar range including the infrastructure for the main usecase at the time in executives minds: the metaverse. So save me the bullshit of creating value and doing anything worthwhile. It's not a fucking youtube acquisition. 

No one is bitching about companies that actually turn out good shit and make real products. People are bitching about companies that lose hundreds of millions, billions and sometimes tens of billions of dollars and are worth orders of magnitude more than that when there is actually no real path to not only profitability, but a cash walk to complete breakeven from the net investment fundraising activities they've done since the inception of their company. 

The companies that actually do turn out a profitable product have also been left completely unchecked and have monopolized to a large extend their corner of the market in detrimental and stifling to innovation fashion. 

The problem with Nepo billionaires isn't that their family gave them money, it's that they didn't do shit to build the companies they are bestowed with "running", they are not the innovators, they are not the magnates, they are not the vision. They are corporate vampires extracting value from organizations to personally enrich themselves instead of creating value to become rich in the process.

[Brisketexan 105079]

12 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Bruh, we are actively and continually dumping 10’s of billions of dollars into a country that just got thru dumping millions into POTUS’ crack addicted sons bank account.  For fucks sake. 

Jesus what horseshit.  Do you want me to join you in calling bullshit on the children of the powerful/rich trading on the family name, because that's what Hunter did?  Consider our "huzzah" issued jointly, then.  If you want me to join you in a batshit world where the reason that the United States....and the entire Western World.....support Ukraine in its response to a fucking full on military invasion by an autocratic kleptostate,,,,is a few million dollars paid to said kid trading off of dad's name, sorry.  I'm not that stupid and never will be.

11 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Your analogy is weak, counselor. The people you are wanting to support wouldn’t be considered either in any successful corp.  3 generations of never accomplished shit isn’t Capex, it would have long been on a divestment schedule.  Also known as throwing good money at bad.  Successful corps flood their lotto tickets with support and capital.   You obviously can’t divest human beings (we dump loads and loads of good money on bad), so best to work on another analogy.  

The bolded makes my point, although in fairness, the analogy is far from perfect, because it's taken from BUSINESS and running a society is not the same as running a business at all.  The purposes and motives are vastly different.  We indeed do not jettison members of society because they are not profitable enough (note that the bar isn't "not profitable," it's "not profitable enough" -- a business only yielding a 2% return on an employee will often ditch that employee).  In a society, those people exist, and will continue to exist.  

And in a society, we have seen and proven, time and again, that "3 generations of haven't accomplished shit" can turn into "a person/family breaking even or better" in one generation.  It can be done, because it has been done.  Millions and millions of times.  We'll never get it perfect.  There will always be some dead weight at the bottom, and some crooks at the top.  A healthy society works to reduce the frequency of both.

What's fascinating to me is that dumbass kids (the subject of this thread) can see that as clear as day, as can I with the benefit of 50 years of experience watching this roller coaster (and being on it), yet you can't.  Or, more appropriately, won't.

I'm better off -- you're better off -- when my neighbors can attend functioning schools, can afford/consume basic nutrition, and have opportunities for fair work at a fair wage.  Those people are better to be around, commit crime at a lower rate, don't end up being a burden on society - all of those things you claim to want.  But you live in a world where if they can't/won't crawl over broken glass to get there, FUCK 'EM (which means "fuck the rest of us," too)....fuck that shit.  It's counterproductive.  Set empathy completely aside: doing the things that will have more of society (not all of them, but more) productive and be less of a negative/drain is "good business."  Kind of like decent basic healthcare (basic wellness, vaccinations, etc.) pay incredible dividends relative to the cost.  It's just smart business.  Don't let the fact that it's also decent and kind distract you - just pick the choice that produces the best yield rate.

[tbone_ 14113]

Ok, so we’ve clearly established that the major trends and economic averages in terms of incomes and costs, and likely ability to create and grow wealth, have moved way out of favor for the younger generations.

So here’s my question for parents: how are you dealing with this with your own specific kids? Because after all we aren’t raising averages, we’re raising specific individuals.

I’m a believer that as parents it’s generally better to acknowledge shit like this and try to help them develop strategies and way to cope vs just complaining about it or burying your head in the sand. I’m the same with with social media. I hate it, wish it would go away, but it won’t and it’s part of the world and my job, as best I can, is to prepare my single spawn to be able to deal with it.

I have no idea if this is right or not but I’m a huge believer in making sure I am a source of positive energetic for her. Not rah rah cheerleader shit, but just that I believe in her, and proud of her, and she has a fantastic future ahead of her because she lives in a world where she can make it whatever she wants. Don’t worry about conforming to anyone’s specific view of what or how she should be (including mine). And don’t get bogged down with the stress that can come from too many options (that’s a real thing imo). And that despite all the shit in the media, I think her generation (she’s 17) is going to do fantastic things - these kids care, they’re empathetic, and most I see genuinely want to make the world a better place. Which I contrast with my generation (X) - we were just a bunch of assholes in hs and college. The thing that’s strikes me most from the many teenagers I’m around though is a lack of confidence. My theory is they get so beaten down with social media, regular media, just negative messages everywhere (you aren’t skinny enough, you’ll never be able to afford a house, our country is horrible, gender roles are all screwed up and over compensated for, etc etc) that they are basically just scared shitless. They don’t have a bunch of years of examples of good shit happening to counteract the messaging. Combine that with just general challenges of being a teenager even in perfect times and it seems to me they just don’t quite know how to act or who to be. So I’ve tried as best I can to counteract all that with positivity energy. Not just preaching but in leading by example. Honestly I think that’s the number one thing missing from these kids lives. And our society does a pathetically horrible job of providing it.

Anyway, I could go on all day about it, and I’m sure I’ll get accused of being polyanna, but that’s my approach. Positive energy. Firm believer here in the idea that the energy you put into the world is largely the energy you get back.

What are other parents approach?

[Nivek 16923]

Yeah well, like fuck you.

[Brisketexan 105079]

5 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

What are other parents approach?

We've had lots of conversations with them about having a healthy perspective of what "success" and "happiness/satisfaction" look like (and that they don't have to look like "wealth" or "lots of stuff").  For example, a few years ago over Xmas break, my daughter and I were having a long chat in our living room.  She looked around and said "it just occurred to me that I'm probably living in the most prosperous household that I'll ever live in."  I told her that was reasonably likely, but ALSO, there's a whole lot of living between "your parents' big nice house in NW Hills" and "poor and broke."  And in that band is a shitload of happiness and living.  Shit, her parents grew up in that band, and had great lives.

And honestly, among their generation, I think that view has some traction.  Big fancy houses aren't as important to them (yes, it's still important to plenty of them, I'm just saying it's less important overall).  Fancy cars aren't as important.  Security, being able to afford the basics, and spend time with people you care about, matter more.  Which I actually think is healthier.

And for us, there's a cheat code, and it isn't fair: my kids stand to inherit enough (from my dad and from us) to provide them a baseline of security.  They could probably acquire a decent/modest home with inherited money, and then not have to pay for housing anymore.  What a HUGE leg up that is.  But it's cheating, because they are exceptionally lucky.  To their credit, they know it (that it's luck).  They've been given a lot, and they know it.

[tbone_ 14113]

Yeah well, like fuck you.

Absolutely

[Celery Man 20933]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

 C’mon man, you’re smarter than this. 

[Celery Man 20933]

46 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Ok, so we’ve clearly established that the major trends and economic averages in terms of incomes and costs, and likely ability to create and grow wealth, have moved way out of favor for the younger generations.

So here’s my question for parents: how are you dealing with this with your own specific kids? Because after all we aren’t raising averages, we’re raising specific individuals.

I’m a believer that as parents it’s generally better to acknowledge shit like this and try to help them develop strategies and way to cope vs just complaining about it or burying your head in the sand. I’m the same with with social media. I hate it, wish it would go away, but it won’t and it’s part of the world and my job, as best I can, is to prepare my single spawn to be able to deal with it.

I have no idea if this is right or not but I’m a huge believer in making sure I am a source of positive energetic for her. Not rah rah cheerleader shit, but just that I believe in her, and proud of her, and she has a fantastic future ahead of her because she lives in a world where she can make it whatever she wants. Don’t worry about conforming to anyone’s specific view of what or how she should be (including mine). And don’t get bogged down with the stress that can come from too many options (that’s a real thing imo). And that despite all the shit in the media, I think her generation (she’s 17) is going to do fantastic things - these kids care, they’re empathetic, and most I see genuinely want to make the world a better place. Which I contrast with my generation (X) - we were just a bunch of assholes in hs and college. The thing that’s strikes me most from the many teenagers I’m around though is a lack of confidence. My theory is they get so beaten down with social media, regular media, just negative messages everywhere (you aren’t skinny enough, you’ll never be able to afford a house, our country is horrible, gender roles are all screwed up and over compensated for, etc etc) that they are basically just scared shitless. They don’t have a bunch of years of examples of good shit happening to counteract the messaging. Combine that with just general challenges of being a teenager even in perfect times and it seems to me they just don’t quite know how to act or who to be. So I’ve tried as best I can to counteract all that with positivity energy. Not just preaching but in leading by example. Honestly I think that’s the number one thing missing from these kids lives. And our society does a pathetically horrible job of providing it.

Anyway, I could go on all day about it, and I’m sure I’ll get accused of being polyanna, but that’s my approach. Positive energy. Firm believer here in the idea that the energy you put into the world is largely the energy you get back.

What are other parents approach?

Money in the 529, encouraging her to level up by doing things, reinforcing stories about people who accomplish stuff by going out and trying and continuing to try, “I love you forever no matter what”, “I love being your dad”, “I’m so happy you’re my daughter” every day.

[immamac 42838]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

Ok, so we’ve clearly established that the major trends and economic averages in terms of incomes and costs, and likely ability to create and grow wealth, have moved way out of favor for the younger generations.

So here’s my question for parents: how are you dealing with this with your own specific kids? Because after all we aren’t raising averages, we’re raising specific individuals.

I’m a believer that as parents it’s generally better to acknowledge shit like this and try to help them develop strategies and way to cope vs just complaining about it or burying your head in the sand. I’m the same with with social media. I hate it, wish it would go away, but it won’t and it’s part of the world and my job, as best I can, is to prepare my single spawn to be able to deal with it.

I have no idea if this is right or not but I’m a huge believer in making sure I am a source of positive energetic for her. Not rah rah cheerleader shit, but just that I believe in her, and proud of her, and she has a fantastic future ahead of her because she lives in a world where she can make it whatever she wants. Don’t worry about conforming to anyone’s specific view of what or how she should be (including mine). And don’t get bogged down with the stress that can come from too many options (that’s a real thing imo). And that despite all the shit in the media, I think her generation (she’s 17) is going to do fantastic things - these kids care, they’re empathetic, and most I see genuinely want to make the world a better place. Which I contrast with my generation (X) - we were just a bunch of assholes in hs and college. The thing that’s strikes me most from the many teenagers I’m around though is a lack of confidence. My theory is they get so beaten down with social media, regular media, just negative messages everywhere (you aren’t skinny enough, you’ll never be able to afford a house, our country is horrible, gender roles are all screwed up and over compensated for, etc etc) that they are basically just scared shitless. They don’t have a bunch of years of examples of good shit happening to counteract the messaging. Combine that with just general challenges of being a teenager even in perfect times and it seems to me they just don’t quite know how to act or who to be. So I’ve tried as best I can to counteract all that with positivity energy. Not just preaching but in leading by example. Honestly I think that’s the number one thing missing from these kids lives. And our society does a pathetically horrible job of providing it.

Anyway, I could go on all day about it, and I’m sure I’ll get accused of being polyanna, but that’s my approach. Positive energy. Firm believer here in the idea that the energy you put into the world is largely the energy you get back.

What are other parents approach?

I'm just making sure my kids are better than everyone elses kids at pretty much everything relating to getting ahead in today's society. It doesn't help other people's kids, but this is what I told some folks at a dinner party a few weeks ago who were at my house (70+ retirees, friends of in-laws)

"It's not my job to fix the world for all the people our kids age, it's my job to fix the world for people my age and it's going to be their job to fix the people their age"

Fix what you know, not what you can't possibly know. This is a general fallacy in policy making generally speaking, because of a certain frame of reference or complete misunderstanding you can't possibly relate or begin to help others from a completely different perspective. 

It's a hard enough job to get millennials to pull their heads out of their asses, it's a totally different problem to get Gen Z and Gen Alpha or whatever the fuck they are calling the young ones now to "get it" when we don't even know what it was like to have literal super computers and the internet in your face from age 0. The world will be a completely different place for them than it is for me because there is no way to have that perspective, you are only young of brain and super plasticity once. My formative years didn't happen with access to literally anything in any language at the tap of a few keys.

If boomers would fix their own fucking problems instead of trying to tell everyone else how to do shit we'd be so much better off. 

[Brisketexan 105079]

6 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

That's not cheating, that's privilege. And it used to be a positive thing and something to aspire to provide-- enabling your kids and their kids and optimizing their privilege-- but as your language above suggests, it's become a bad-word or something to be embarrased or ashamed of (instead of proud to provide) in today's society.

It's not inherently bad or good.  It's what you do with it.  And our kids damned well know the rule of "to whom much is given, much is required."  Having a mother who knows the Gospel of Luke helps.  That IS something about Gen Z that is hopeful - there's a bigger sense of "we need to make this place better" in their ethos and motivation.  Shit, I had to talk him out of spending his summer helping rehab damaged communities outside of Kyiv (mom says "no-go" into a warzone).  But I also know that pretty soon, he's a grown-ass man out from under our roof completely.  And he may go do things like that anyway.  Because he gives a shit.  AND, he knows that his position of privilege allows him the means to do so.  We aren't wealthy enough to really invoke "noblesse oblige," but if you've got it....you need to use it for good.

I hope we've set a good enough example for them.  I live in regular fear that we haven't.

[Brisketexan 105079]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

If boomers would fix their own fucking problems instead of trying to tell everyone else how to do shit we'd be so much better off. 

Yep.  And for each generation, a big part of our job is to hand off things to the next in the best shape that we can.  As Gen X, that's frustrating as shit, because it feels like the best we can do is try to hold the line to keep things from getting shittier, and telling the next generations "here ya go, we tried to keep it from breaking further....good luck fixing it."

But it indeed will be up to them, in their time and in their way, to do what they can to make it better.  They may be fucked, but they are also that tiny ember of hope standing in the corner of Pandora's box.  Our job as parents is to keep that ember going till they can stoke the fire themselves.

[Brisketexan 105079]

Just now, BeardIP said:

That's fantastic, but the point still remains that you talk about privilege as if it's something to begrudgingly admit that you provide or that one should be ashamed or embarrased of, and then follow-up with "well, it's actually neutral and is not good or bad". If you believe it's inherently not bad or good why couch your original post with the weasel words that make it sound in the pejorative?

Well, from the perspective of a full set of kids in their position, it ISN'T "fair," is it?

Kid A has access to great educational resources, a stable household, good healthcare and nutrition, and even "seed money" to keep them from ever going into a hole.

Kid B has none of that.

Neither Kid A nor Kid B did anything to earn/deserve that situation.  They were just born into it.  So, yeah, it really isn't fair that Kid B across the highway from us doesn't have the huge advantages my kids have.  It's good and healthy to acknowledge that, and importantly, for Kid A NOT to think that he's inherently better or more deserving than Kid B just because he has those advantages.  And beyond that, Kid A should be instilled with the virtue and ethos of devoting some of his life's energy to helping the Kid B's of the world close that opportunity gap some.

It's great to be born at the top of the mountain.  It sucks to be born at the bottom.  A good person at the summit realizes that, and devotes some of their time and resources to helping other folks climb.

[MissingInAction 25018]

On 5/9/2024 at 10:59 AM, Frank Drebin said:

You suggested Texas politics was to blame for high tuition.  The data shows that in state public school tuition in Texas is currently cheaper than average and 34th out of 51.  

That seems to cut against your point that tuition in Texas is high due to Texas politics.  It is not high, relative to other states.  And the most expensive states seem to be ones that have radically different politics than Texas -- basically the other end of the spectrum.

Ivy League tuition will do that.

[F250 28764]

25 minutes ago, immamac said:

I'm just making sure my kids are better than everyone elses kids at pretty much everything relating to getting ahead in today's society. It doesn't help other people's kids, but this is what I told some folks at a dinner party a few weeks ago who were at my house (70+ retirees, friends of in-laws)

"It's not my job to fix the world for all the people our kids age, it's my job to fix the world for people my age and it's going to be their job to fix the people their age"

Fix what you know, not what you can't possibly know. This is a general fallacy in policy making generally speaking, because of a certain frame of reference or complete misunderstanding you can't possibly relate or begin to help others from a completely different perspective.

This was my first thought when watching that TED Talk. Galloway begins with the question "do you love your children?" After making the point that of course the audience loves their children he immediately transitions to the war on youth and starts discussing problems that primarily impact children of the middle and lower class.

The disconnect is that his audience is likely made up of the upper and upper-middle class who don’t give a fuck about other people's children, especially the children of the lower classes. Everyone is going to take care of their own and let the others be fodder as long as their own children thrive.

[Brisketexan 105079]

3 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

But it's also not an embarrassment or shameful to be born at the top (or more appropriately for us, the middle of the mountain) and to strive to keep your family and their generations to keep from falling to the bottom, to the best of your ability.

I agree - they didn't do anything wrong in being born on third base.  They just need to be aware of what a privilege and advantage that is.  And to do good with it.  

Man, the older I get, the simpler that truth gets.  Just do good.  When you can, how you can, for whoever you can.  It's just so damned important.  And that requires a big dose of humility.

[Brisketexan 105079]

1 minute ago, BeardIP said:

Except, apparently, some performative faux humility by pretending privilege they give their kids is unfair. At least, that's what I'm hearing.

It isn't performative faux humility (or it shouldn't be).  It should be real.  Be humble.  Be kind.  Use what you have been given to do good.  Be aware of other people's situations, which are often no more their fault than your situation (and advantage) is your fault.  Have some empathy, which goes hand-in-hand with humility.

DON'T be the guy born on third base who brags about how he hit a triple, making fun of all of those people stuck standing at the plate without even a bat.

[Frank Drebin 5660]

13 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Ivy League tuition will do that.

It was just public school in-state tuition, where Texas is 34th and below the national average.

[MissingInAction 25018]

[tbone_ 14113]

I agree - they didn't do anything wrong in being born on third base.  They just need to be aware of what a privilege and advantage that is.  And to do good with it.  
Man, the older I get, the simpler that truth gets.  Just do good.  When you can, how you can, for whoever you can.  It's just so damned important.  And that requires a big dose of humility.

This is a huge point imo and one I stress as much as I can. My kiddo has lots of advantage others don’t, she’s attractive (fuck off perverts), she’s smart, she’s white, and she has parents that take an interest, stay engaged, and have some level of means to help her out. And because to whom much is given much is expected so make sure you don’t squander your luck. She also has near debilitating adhd that she has to deal with and whatever she ultimately achieves in life she will have to earn because we don’t have that kind of means to bequeath to her. But she knows I don’t want to ever see any gloating, arrogance, or acting like you are better than anyone because you were lucky. But also don’t apologize or feel guilty about it despite what cultural media tries to tell you. Just be aware, be smart, be humble, be grateful, and helpful to others.

And honestly I don’t feel guilty for trying to help her. I’ll pay for college, she’ll always have a place to live with me if she needs it, I have two rental houses I’ll never sell and she will inherit and knows to never sell - live in them or collect rent, your choice but never sell - and I’m teaching her the power of compound interest in investing starting as a teenager. But it absolutely comes with the message that just because you were born on 2nd base, I don’t ever want to see you acting like it’s because you think you actually hit a double.

[F250 28764]

12 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Except, apparently, some performative faux humility by pretending privilege they give their kids is unfair. At least, that's what I'm hearing.

Maybe you are just cynical.

I was brought up with a Wesleyan background and I while I don't think Briskets family's faith is Wesleyan I believe it pushes a social gospel.

If you come from a religious background like this being taught to be "class conscious", particularly if you are well-to-do is pretty standard.

[BabaYaga 15289]

You can't just tell you kids to be nice and humble.  They have to be put into situations when they've been humbled.  Sports does this.  Rigorous academics.  Physical exertion.  I think BJJ is one of the best teachers out there.  My 18yr old son has packed on almost 20+ lbs of muscle this year as he prepares for college and the ROTC.  He rolls now quite a bit and he got choked THE FUCK OUT by this dainty little purple belt chick that was maybe 100lbs.  My God it was glorious.  I even warned him. 

Dude, she's slippery. 

I got this dad. 

Look at how small she is. 

LOL.....

There are obviously exceptions to everything, but guys that train to fight/roll and some of the most chill, down to earth guys you'll ever meet.  There's no Cobra Kai bullshit.  You spend hours of your day getting rag-dolled and choked repeatedly you quickly gain a healthy measure of respect for violence.  They sometimes come over.  To a kid, they are solid.  respectful.  Eager to share what they know.  Supportive.  They've all been white belts.  They know what it's like.  

The actor Tom Hardy went up a few notches in my book for gaining his purple belt and winning tournaments and telling nobody.  He basically went in anonymous and strangled some pretty damn good savages from across the globe.  He could be a cushy actor and "act" the part, but he put himself into the cauldron and he's earning respect

[BabaYaga 15289]

4 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

1000% this. Don’t gloat and be gross and tacky about it, but don’t apologize for it either. It’s an honor to have been born on second base. At the same time it’s not a dishonor to be poor. Both can be true at the same time.

Just do hard shit.  Then you won't be so worried about everyone else's shit because you're too focused on your own

[YGIFS 19449]

But my memo said, "We will not be replaced!"  ???

[CHIEF 5078]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

It isn't performative faux humility (or it shouldn't be).  It should be real.  Be humble.  Be kind.  Use what you have been given to do good.  Be aware of other people's situations, which are often no more their fault than your situation (and advantage) is your fault.  Have some empathy, which goes hand-in-hand with humility.

DON'T be the guy born on third base who brags about how he hit a triple, making fun of all of those people stuck standing at the plate without even a bat.

I always tell CHIEF Jr. "always remember, you were born on third base, you didn't hit a triple." Our family has been blessed with making some good decisions, and that includes decisions that you have made. That doesn't mean you haven't had struggles along the way, as we have. But we have been helped financially from parents, friends, and relatives over the years, now we are in a position to be that help. 

My niece is in the opposite boat. She can't really count on her parents to help, or her in-laws. Not because they don't want to, but are not in a position financially. My son is part of their safety net. He has helped with utility deposits, diapers, formula, a garage door opener. These were never asked of him, he just bought them and took them over on his own. You have to raise them unselfishly, and to be unselfish and help others.

After the Big Freeze of 2021, we had the Big Thaw. College courses were all online at the time. He and 2-3 friends pulled carpet, sheetrock, and furniture for about two weeks on over 20 houses for free. I was proud of him. It let me know I raised him right.

CHIEF 

[F250 28764]

18 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

My 18yr old son has packed on almost 20+ lbs of muscle this year as he prepares for college and the ROTC. 

To be fair, regarding ROTC, there isn't a need to physically prepare for it if you are coming from a high school athletic background. Compared to varsity sports, it's a cake walk. The real challenge is academic, mental and time management.

Loading up on courses in the Fall/Spring because Summers are going to be dedicated to military training which doesn't leave a lot of room for Summer school. Which means you will be taking 5 courses a semester, plus military science, leadership labs and morning PT.

Time management is the biggest challenge, the physical stuff is an after thought. A typical day would be physical training at 6 AM, classes in the morning/noon, lab work in the afternoon (land nav training or some shit) which leaves your evenings for studying.

Sitting down and studying calculus II followed by some exciting reading about Spanish exploration in the Americas after a long ass day while you are being tempted to go party with friends or Netflix and chill with a girl is hard.

[BabaYaga 15289]

28 minutes ago, F250 said:

To be fair, regarding ROTC, there isn't a need to physically prepare for it if you are coming from a high school athletic background. Compared to varsity sports, it's a cake walk. The real challenge is academic, mental and time management.

Loading up on courses in the Fall/Spring because Summers are going to be dedicated to military training which doesn't leave a lot of room for Summer school. Which means you will be taking 5 courses a semester, plus military science, leadership labs and morning PT.

Time management is the biggest challenge, the physical stuff is an after thought. A typical day would be physical training at 6 AM, classes in the morning/noon, lab work in the afternoon (land nav training or some shit) which leaves your evenings for studying.

Sitting down and studying calculus II followed by some exciting reading about Spanish exploration in the Americas after a long ass day while you are being tempted to go party with friends or Netflix and chill with a girl is hard.

Thank you!

[Helobious 9451]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

You can't just tell you kids to be nice and humble.  They have to be put into situations when they've been humbled.  Sports does this.  Rigorous academics.  Physical exertion.  I think BJJ is one of the best teachers out there.  My 18yr old son has packed on almost 20+ lbs of muscle this year as he prepares for college and the ROTC.  He rolls now quite a bit and he got choked THE FUCK OUT by this dainty little purple belt chick that was maybe 100lbs.  My God it was glorious.  I even warned him. 

Dude, she's slippery. 

I got this dad. 

Look at how small she is. 

LOL.....

There are obviously exceptions to everything, but guys that train to fight/roll and some of the most chill, down to earth guys you'll ever meet.  There's no Cobra Kai bullshit.  You spend hours of your day getting rag-dolled and choked repeatedly you quickly gain a healthy measure of respect for violence.  They sometimes come over.  To a kid, they are solid.  respectful.  Eager to share what they know.  Supportive.  They've all been white belts.  They know what it's like.  

The actor Tom Hardy went up a few notches in my book for gaining his purple belt and winning tournaments and telling nobody.  He basically went in anonymous and strangled some pretty damn good savages from across the globe.  He could be a cushy actor and "act" the part, but he put himself into the cauldron and he's earning respect

BJJ is exceptional for confidence building. It gives people that would stand no chance in any real fight belief that they could hold their own. 

[YGIFS 19449]

Bob, the Consultant from 'Office Space', "What if, and believe me this is a big hypothetical.....but what if in addition to participation awards and trophies and counseling...we had this rigor that our children had to go through called real life adulthood in America.  Would that be enough of a challenge or lessons in life?"  Because you know, 35% of American adults fucked everything up for them anyway?  Again, just a hypothetical.  

Having said that, I am reminded daily that my job is not to provide them with a happy childhood, it is to prepare them to be capable adults.  But goddamn if the people trying to fuck up their ability to live in a decent country aren't taking a single day off despite their remarkable level of stupidity.