The Kids (Aren't) Alright - World Happiness Report

[Frank Drebin 5625]

I would go to UC Santa Barbara in a heartbeat just to live there 4-5 years.  

[F250 28659]

44 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Someone above shit on the concept of going to UC Santa Barbara, which alone is laughable. Santa Barbara is one of the most beautiful and expensive places in America. But yes, not everyone can go to UT. Or UCLA. But the Texas system has done a good job at this, and California has crushed this; their "secondary" system schools are still fucking outstanding. UC San Diego doesn't get a lot of run. It's actually ranked higher than Texas nationally in US News (I know, I know). UC Davis. San Luis Obispo. They're all good schools now one raises their eyebrow with at all when resumes from there cross their desks. Thats how you fucking do it. 

This is the way and to the UT System's credit, it has been following a similar path. It just started late down this path and lacks the great locations found in California.

[Brisketexan 104462]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

This is the way and to the UT System's credit, it has been following a similar path. It just started late down this path and lacks the great locations found in California.

You know, this aggression against Tyler and Arlington will not stand, man.  Tyler is totally the Santa Barbara of Texas.

[Frank Drebin 5625]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

You know, this aggression against Tyler and Arlington will not stand, man.  Tyler is totally the Santa Barbara of Texas.

East Texas is my least favorite part of the state.  I guess Tyler is probably the best place in that region.  It also seems to have an inordinate amount of good looking women that hail from there.

[SydneyCarton 47809]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

This is the way and to the UT System's credit, it has been following a similar path. It just started late down this path and lacks the great locations found in California.

Yes, I know UT is working a way to get this done, and they don't have the advantage of the locations, but shit, that's life. It doesn't make the educational quality of the options any less impressive in California. It's a workable blueprint. And part of that blueprint is what Texas used to follow in regards to investing in public education. But that simply isn't the case anymore. SoCiALisT cALifOrNiA however, has a fuck ton of quality schools. 

Just now, Frank Drebin said:

East Texas is my least favorite part of the state.  I guess Tyler is probably the best place in that region.  It also seems to have an inordinate amount of good looking women that hail from there.

East Texas Box Face does not compute. 

[F250 28659]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You know, this aggression against Tyler and Arlington will not stand, man.  Tyler is totally the Santa Barbara of Texas.

Tyler is ass and I don't recognize anything east of Bastrop as Texas.

[SydneyCarton 47809]

6 minutes ago, F250 said:

Tyler is ass and I don't recognize anything east of Bastrop as Texas.

So you don't recognize greater Houston or the Metroplex. Where do we play OU every year, exactly?

[BabaYaga 15202]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Correct.  And it’s laughable for me to hear a guy ((Ted speaker) who attended a good school, performed at average (or below) but benefitted from the classes after him, boosting his prestige in the process. If anything, students like his assistant did more heavily lifting for his educational bonafides than he did.   This has naturally happened to many older UT grads as the selection process became more stringent.   Other than money, what are the incentives for universities to grow attendance at the mercy of the quality of incoming students (ideally the goal is to be elite tier). 

I have issues with him stating and restating the problem - but just throwing more money at the problem is rarely the best option.  In the interim, families have choices to make.

My youngest just turned 16 and was told by her coach (they can't talk to them until June 15th) that she's on UT's "radar"......whatever the hell that means?  It was good enough to solicit squeals and yells.  We both know it's a VERY big stretch.  I know she can get in, but she wants to play at the college level, so Texas probably isn't in the cards and we're all fine with that.

My son went another direction.  He was always told he will have a skin in the game financially.  Even if we hit the powerball tomorrow, he’s paying for a portion of his school – either directly or with loans. 

Problem set.  His solution – he’s going ROTC.  HIS solution, not mine.  He vetted the options, and he wants to go this route.  He’s going supply chain logistics at the biz school @ AR.  For that field of study, AR is as competitive as most.  He spoke with a graduated 1^st lieutenant who went the same route (SCL) and is doing this in the army now.  Completing that degree, coming out as a commissioned officer, and then having the real-world application of his craft, his stock could not be higher.

Military is struggling mightily as well filling billets.  So few applicants, and those that come, struggle so much with the fitness standards.  My kids a former soccer player turned BJJ/gym rat.  This year he put on 25lbs of muscle and still has a decent gas tank from his soccer days.  When he told the recruiter, then officer all this they were excited ( I was on the call).  Barring him bombing the ASVAB, he’ll have options.  Woman that works for me, her husband went the same route.  ROTC @ AR, then went “big” Army.  Artillery.  He was plucked up quickly by the private sector immediately after he left active duty.

There are still tons of options out there for kids if they put in the effort to still get a good education and not exit drowning in loans

[F250 28659]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So you don't recognize greater Houston or the Metroplex. Where do we play OU every year, exactly?

[BabaYaga 15202]

31 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Not having the great locations is what is going to always keep it UT and the seven UT-citysystem dwarfs.

My assumption is it's UT that is always going to keep it UT and the 7 UT dwarfs.  The King and it's fiefdom.  Not saying it's wrong, but these smaller satellite systems can never surpass the top dog.  

[YGIFS 19449]

^

And that's fair.  For a state our size to have such a pathetic offering of higher education options is a fucking disgrace.  Don't get me wrong, UTSA, UT-Dallas, UT-Arlington, and a few others have really upped their game in the last decade or two.  But overall, we're nowhere even sniffing the jock of the UC System.  Much as we like to brag about the "Texas Miracle", it ain't because we have quality education at any level save for a few outliers.  Plus the moronic redundancy of 7 systems when no other state in our country has more than 2 is just another stick in the eye.  

And UT-Austin simply cannot grow more because of the limits on funding that mathematically exist from the PUF/AUF and the Legislature.  Add on top of that the inability to physically grow because of land constraints in our urban campus and the moronic expansion of our "limited" state government's physical footprint between MLK and 11th Street.  Remember that once a decade trip you took to that one state building on official business?  Yeah, that's why UT-Austin can't grow.  

We aren't racing to the bottom.  We're sprinting and nearly out of breath.  

[F250 28659]

44 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Problem set.  His solution – he’s going ROTC.  HIS solution, not mine.  He vetted the options, and he wants to go this route.  He’s going supply chain logistics at the biz school @ AR.  For that field of study, AR is as competitive as most.  He spoke with a graduated 1^st lieutenant who went the same route (SCL) and is doing this in the army now.  Completing that degree, coming out as a commissioned officer, and then having the real-world application of his craft, his stock could not be higher.

This is the route my eldest son took. He had offers for partial scholarships for baseball from schools in the Southland and Sunbelt conferences. None of the schools that offered had good computer science programs. He ended up in the UT CAP program with an Air Force scholarship. His college was already covered under the old TGTP plans so I was able to transfer it to a younger sibling while he used the AF money.

My other two have squandered their college funds on schools that I would have preferred they not attend.

[tbone_ 14020]

I’d choose Tech 10 times out of 10 over UTSA or UTD.

Say what you want about Lubbock but there’s fun to be had out there as a college kid. Plus sports.

[956 Worldwide 34313]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Correct.  And it’s laughable for me to hear a guy ((Ted speaker) who attended a good school, performed at average (or below) but benefitted from the classes after him, boosting his prestige in the process. If anything, students like his assistant did more heavily lifting for his educational bonafides than he did.   This has naturally happened to many older UT grads as the selection process became more stringent.   Other than money, what are the incentives for universities to grow attendance at the mercy of the quality of incoming students (ideally the goal is to be elite tier). 

There’s something to be said about having the value of your degree raise but let’s be real, if you are giving a Ted Talk your degree now has nothing to do with your marketability. A decade after school and no one gives a shit.  That name degee will get you your first and maybe second job interview. 
 

As long as it’s real and from an accredited school, that is one line at the bottom of your cv. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

8 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

There’s something to be said about having the value of your degree raise but let’s be real, if you are giving a Ted Talk your degree now has nothing to do with your marketability. A decade after school and no one gives a shit.  That name degee will get you your first and maybe second job interview. 
 

As long as it’s real and from an accredited school, that is one line at the bottom of your cv. 

I'd mostly agree.  I matriculated at one of UT's city satellites.  Got "in" first job thru contacts from guys with state degrees (aggy specifically) in better disciplines (ME's), and worked alongside UT, ATM, West point, and LSU engineers.  Then I worked my dick off for most of a decade and climbed the ladder ahead of most of them.  Then we all dispersed, and several advanced rapidly at large companies.  I've eventually caught up and am in a great spot now, but at the point where my peer group is considerably better educated.  My board is familiar with UT; they haven't the slightest idea what a UTSA is.  The few times I have changed jobs, it was always thru someone I had known prior or built a working relationship with.  Not uncommon, but this is where having a big name on your diploma helps the most, imo.  You don't need the personal in to get your foot in the door.  Your career history still does the speaking, but that backstop of a big name school drives it home. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

13 hours ago, F250 said:

My other two have squandered their college funds on schools that I would have preferred they not attend.

Tell me it isn't so.....;)

Kidding.  If you ignore all the BS, it's not a bad school, especially the business and vet schools.  We visited.  Just too damn big.  Also visited OU.  It was more like a pep-rally.  Had the dude dressed as a horse walking around high fiving everyone.  After the second or third time that the band played boomer-sooner, wife texted me and said I can't take this shit anymore and they left early.  

[Armybrat 40678]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You know, this aggression against Tyler and Arlington will not stand, man.  Tyler is totally the Santa Barbara of Texas.

Well, the former UT Chancellor tried Houston, but that Fertitty guy squelched the move.

[BabaYaga 15202]

13 hours ago, YGIFS said:

^

And that's fair.  For a state our size to have such a pathetic offering of higher education options is a fucking disgrace.  Don't get me wrong, UTSA, UT-Dallas, UT-Arlington, and a few others have really upped their game in the last decade or two.  But overall, we're nowhere even sniffing the jock of the UC System.  Much as we like to brag about the "Texas Miracle", it ain't because we have quality education at any level save for a few outliers.  Plus the moronic redundancy of 7 systems when no other state in our country has more than 2 is just another stick in the eye.  

And UT-Austin simply cannot grow more because of the limits on funding that mathematically exist from the PUF/AUF and the Legislature.  Add on top of that the inability to physically grow because of land constraints in our urban campus and the moronic expansion of our "limited" state government's physical footprint between MLK and 11th Street.  Remember that once a decade trip you took to that one state building on official business?  Yeah, that's why UT-Austin can't grow.  

We aren't racing to the bottom.  We're sprinting and nearly out of breath.  

I don't think either extremes are accurate - nobody is near what CA has.  That doesn't mean our system is complete dogshit, and we're not sprinting into the abyss either.  There's also out of state kids swelling the CA system ranks.  Last I saw the percentage was in the high teens.  Texas is single digits.  You could both argue that the system is so attractive that it garners more interest, but also at a cost to in-state kids that are bumped. 

That's why there is a "can't get into UT" thread about Surly kids.  They've made it so GD hard to get into now that your options are limited save for Rice, SMU, or the 3 private Presbyterian schools.  As stated, TX is at the same capacity it was back in the late 80's, so they just tightened the admission requirements like a mother, and they physically can grow - but at 50K+ kids, how big would they want to get?

9 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

The few times I have changed jobs, it was always thru someone I had known prior or built a working relationship with.  Not uncommon, but this is where having a big name on your diploma helps the most, imo.  You don't need the personal in to get your foot in the door.  Your career history still does the speaking, but that backstop of a big name school drives it home. 

I'd argue this is the same for everyone.  I've hired so many people, I don't even look at the education part of the resume anymore.  They've been in the workforce long enough to let their experience speak for itself.  Right out of college, sure, but now it's as it should be:  your personal relationships and network that you cultivate are all that matter.  If you want a "big" name, go back to grad school (esp true with MBAs).  

[BabaYaga 15202]

13 hours ago, tbone_ said:

I’d choose Tech 10 times out of 10 over UTSA or UTD.

Say what you want about Lubbock but there’s fun to be had out there as a college kid. Plus sports.

Yep.  Few of the kids from HS went UTD and DBU to play soccer and it's just a few miles from their homes.  We checked both out and both kids want to "go" off to college, not down the street.  If you are in STEM fields, go to UTD for grad school later.  It's a damn good school for certain majors.  

[troph 24547]

52 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Tell me it isn't so.....;)

Kidding.  If you ignore all the BS, it's not a bad school, especially the business and vet schools.  We visited.  Just too damn big.  Also visited OU.  It was more like a pep-rally.  Had the dude dressed as a horse walking around high fiving everyone.  After the second or third time that the band played boomer-sooner, wife texted me and said I can't take this shit anymore and they left early.  

OU, A&M, Tech and most of the SEC schools are off limits in my house. We have modest college savings but I’ll suck it up and find another way before we do any of those.

UTSA and UTD as a transfer to UT are the only other schools besides UT my sophomore is looking at. Oregon, Washington, and Michigan (not sure why) are on his list. Trips start soon…

but back to the happiness issue - my childhood was shit, not overly abusive or anything but shit (don’t get me wrong bare ass belt whippings were a thing). Not a lot of fun, preoccupied narcissistic or depressed all to hell parents, shit rolls downhill, no money, strained and distant relationships with my folks, blah blah, and I think the fun deficit and lack of good memories is a major issue for me that I’m still chasing. I’ve tried to balance with my kids so they have fun and have a well of good memories to draw upon to feel positive about their lives. I truly think if kids can be kids then you’ve got a good foundation to launch from. The hard part is all the fucked up adults keep driving their kids over the cliff or let society do it for them. 

Edited May 9 by troph

[BabaYaga 15202]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

OU, A&M, Tech and most of the SEC schools are off limits in my house. We have modest college savings but I’ll suck it up and find another way before we do any of those.

UTSA and UTD as a transfer to UT are the only other schools besides UT my sophomore is looking at. Oregon, Washington, and Michigan (not sure why) are on his list. Trips start soon…

but back to the happiness issue - my childhood was shit, not overly abusive or anything but shit (don’t get me wrong bare ass belt whippings were a thing). Not a lot of fun, preoccupied narcissistic or depressed all to hell parents, shit rolls downhill, no money, strained relationships with my folks, blah blah, and I think the fun deficit and lack of good memories is a major issue. I’ve tried to balance with my kids so they have fun and have a well of good memories to draw upon to feel positive about their lives. I truly think if kids can be kids then you’ve got a good foundation to launch from. The hard part is all the fucked up adults keep driving their kids over the cliff or let society do it for them. 

Said it before and I'll say it again - the word "privilege" might be thrown around a little too much these days, but the real privilege is being born to good parents who take an active role in raising and supporting a child.  Kids also emulate their environment.  You are spastic and anxious all the damn time, guess what....your kids probably will be as well.  You lose your shit in traffic or watching right/left-wing media all the time, they're watching.  You tell them to get their shit together while you're on the coach drinking a beer and looking like 200lbs of chewed bubble gum.  They're watching.  

[SydneyCarton 47809]

41 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Said it before and I'll say it again - the word "privilege" might be thrown around a little too much these days, but the real privilege is being born to good parents who take an active role in raising and supporting a child.  Kids also emulate their environment.  You are spastic and anxious all the damn time, guess what....your kids probably will be as well.  You lose your shit in traffic or watching right/left-wing media all the time, they're watching.  You tell them to get their shit together while you're on the coach drinking a beer and looking like 200lbs of chewed bubble gum.  They're watching.  

There's a lot of truth to this, but in another thread we touched upon there being no single reciple. As Troph demonstrated, she's gone out of her way after viewing her parents to be galvinized and do the opposite/improve. To paraphrase tupac, a rose can grow in concrete. But our house is pretty close to your thought process. Our overarching message to our kiddo at this point in his life is just to be kind. And we participate in everything he does. 

[troph 24547]

47 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Said it before and I'll say it again - the word "privilege" might be thrown around a little too much these days, but the real privilege is being born to good parents who take an active role in raising and supporting a child.  Kids also emulate their environment.  You are spastic and anxious all the damn time, guess what....your kids probably will be as well.  You lose your shit in traffic or watching right/left-wing media all the time, they're watching.  You tell them to get their shit together while you're on the coach drinking a beer and looking like 200lbs of chewed bubble gum.  They're watching.  

 

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

There's a lot of truth to this, but in another thread we touched upon there being no single reciple. As Troph demonstrated, she's gone out of her way after viewing her parents to be galvinized and do the opposite/improve. To paraphrase tupac, a rose can grow in concrete. But our house is pretty close to your thought process. Our overarching message to our kiddo at this point in his life is just to be kind. And we participate in everything he does. 

You are both right and in my little anecdotal example I’ll be brutally honest. Some days I’m exhausted from my upbringing. Some days the only hope I have is that I’m changing it for my sons. Shitty parents are a fucking beating. 

[Captainant 27309]

44 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Said it before and I'll say it again - the word "privilege" might be thrown around a little too much these days, but the real privilege is being born to good parents who take an active role in raising and supporting a child.  Kids also emulate their environment.  You are spastic and anxious all the damn time, guess what....your kids probably will be as well.  You lose your shit in traffic or watching right/left-wing media all the time, they're watching.  You tell them to get their shit together while you're on the coach drinking a beer and looking like 200lbs of chewed bubble gum.  They're watching.  

To that end, you're getting dangerously close to talking about systemic issues that are causing specific demographics to have a more difficult time achieving an ideal child raising environment. When the parents have less and less breathing room to survive because their job(s) is (are) squeezing them, the children feel that too. 

When I was a kid, my dad getting WorldComm'd still stands out in my memory as a significantly stressful and traumatic period for my family. Nowadays it's not scandal and fraud driving the pain, but layoffs and arbitrary growth targets bringing the pain and stealing the stability that many of us enjoyed as children. 

If we want happier children, it would probably go a long long way to reduce the uncertainty and churn that's endemic to being a modern wage earner. More than a couple days leadtime on schedule changes, actual benefits provided and not held just a few hours a week out of reach, less 1099 contract work with easy to fuck up taxes, etc etc etc. It just is much less friendly to be a wage earner now than it was when our parents were raising us. 

[immamac 42492]

16 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I have issues with him stating and restating the problem - but just throwing more money at the problem is rarely the best option.  In the interim, families have choices to make.

My youngest just turned 16 and was told by her coach (they can't talk to them until June 15th) that she's on UT's "radar"......whatever the hell that means?  It was good enough to solicit squeals and yells.  We both know it's a VERY big stretch.  I know she can get in, but she wants to play at the college level, so Texas probably isn't in the cards and we're all fine with that.

My son went another direction.  He was always told he will have a skin in the game financially.  Even if we hit the powerball tomorrow, he’s paying for a portion of his school – either directly or with loans. 

Problem set.  His solution – he’s going ROTC.  HIS solution, not mine.  He vetted the options, and he wants to go this route.  He’s going supply chain logistics at the biz school @ AR.  For that field of study, AR is as competitive as most.  He spoke with a graduated 1^st lieutenant who went the same route (SCL) and is doing this in the army now.  Completing that degree, coming out as a commissioned officer, and then having the real-world application of his craft, his stock could not be higher.

Military is struggling mightily as well filling billets.  So few applicants, and those that come, struggle so much with the fitness standards.  My kids a former soccer player turned BJJ/gym rat.  This year he put on 25lbs of muscle and still has a decent gas tank from his soccer days.  When he told the recruiter, then officer all this they were excited ( I was on the call).  Barring him bombing the ASVAB, he’ll have options.  Woman that works for me, her husband went the same route.  ROTC @ AR, then went “big” Army.  Artillery.  He was plucked up quickly by the private sector immediately after he left active duty.

There are still tons of options out there for kids if they put in the effort to still get a good education and not exit drowning in loans

It’s shocking to me how much people struggle with the law of averages, understanding the median and self awareness of being top quartile. 

The issue isn’t that there aren’t still ways to be successful in the system as it is today, the issue is that it only rewards those at the top. That means you likely came from a good home, got help, or are in some other ways “remarkable” not in the sense that you are a top 1% IQ prodigy, but in the sense that you have the basic tools to function and get ahead in todays society. 

When he talks about “unremarkable” people getting an opportunity this is what he’s talking about. He’s not saying we need sub room temp IQ people going to college, he’s saying that the average person is fucked and that the requirement to be above average to get ahead systemically in America is fucked. 

If you are average you have gotten fucked harder than any time in American history over the last 5 years, and definitely looking like it for the next 20 years. This is the issue. The fucking has been a slow oppressive force since the 70s, but just recently rapidly accelerated to the point of absurdity. 

Programs and institutions that were built to level up the average have done so, their foundations were altruistic and noble. That’s all gone away, now the foundations are built on greed, ego and prestige.  I mean just look at your post.
 

The growth at all costs mindset paired with nepotism, ethical collapse and non merit based selectivity have turned everything into shit. There is not a single billionaire on planet earth under 30 that isn’t a product of nepotism. At a time in history when there are the most billionaires ever. Let that sink in. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

and arbitrary growth targets

Define arbitrary.  How would you prefer companies provide sustained and metered growth for their capital stakeholders? 

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

There needs to be a broad idealogical cynicism and rejection to the technology that corporations are selling to enslave our children and rob them of true joy, creativity, and companionship. Fuck Tim Cook and fuck Apple. This is infuriating. 

 

[Brisketexan 104462]

14 minutes ago, immamac said:

When he talks about “unremarkable” people getting an opportunity this is what he’s talking about. He’s not saying we need sub room temp IQ people going to college, he’s saying that the average person is fucked and that the requirement to be above average to get ahead systemically in America is fucked. 

If you are average you have gotten fucked harder than any time in American history over the last 5 years, and definitely looking like it for the next 20 years. This is the issue. The fucking has been a slow oppressive force since the 70s, but just recently rapidly accelerated to the point of absurdity. 

This.  You've seen some of us ask the question of "so, what are we going to do with our morons?" on this board.  Expand that question to "what are we going to do with everyone below the top 10%?"  Yes, we have to have some system for the bottom 25% - folks who used to be able to make a living working in agriculture, manufacturing, simple hands-on trades.  But the middle 50-70%, they're getting fucked.  People who were in the top 1/3 or even top half of their class used to be able to get into UT, get a good degree, and a good job with upward mobility.  That path is now fucked.

There's a good path forward for "the elite" (people wo are in the top 10% of intelligence/talent, and/or born into the top 10%).  For everyone else, the prospects of a good path forward are shrinking.  And people hold up the anecdotes of Joe Schmoe who came from nothing, had a good idea, and sold out for $100 million.  Cool.  The odds of being that guy are damned near lottery-high.  AND...."having a net worth of 9 figures" shouldn't be our sole benchmark of success.  Being able to support your family with some sense of security, to have basic comfort and happiness, is worth a whole whole lot.

Most folks know that Finland is often ranked as the "happiest" country in the world.  But that doesn't mean that the Finns are exuberant folks, dancing and laughing in the streets.  They don't rank a 10 out of 10 on the "woo hoo we're having a good time" meter.  Rather, they rank highly in every category across the board that translates as "content."  A better word than happy for them is "content" or "satisfied."  They have....enough.  They have time and opportunity to enjoy time with their family and friends.  They can, guilt-free, spend several weeks in the summer at a lakeside cabin (often super simple -- like, no electricity simple).  They sauna, swim, sit by the fire.  Life is GOOD.  They don't have wads of money shoved in their ears, sipping Cristal and driving the fanciest cars.  In the US in particular, we have a warped vision of "happiness," and we've built a system that offers only 1) that vision of happiness (major wealth) or 2) failure.  

TLDR; our problems are systemic, down to the foundation of our current culture.  

Edited May 9 by Brisketexan

[BabaYaga 15202]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

It’s shocking to me how much people struggle with the law of averages, understanding the median and self awareness of being top quartile. 

The issue isn’t that there aren’t still ways to be successful in the system as it is today, the issue is that it only rewards those at the top. That means you likely came from a good home, got help, or are in some other ways “remarkable” not in the sense that you are a top 1% IQ prodigy, but in the sense that you have the basic tools to function and get ahead in todays society. 

When he talks about “unremarkable” people getting an opportunity this is what he’s talking about. He’s not saying we need sub room temp IQ people going to college, he’s saying that the average person is fucked and that the requirement to be above average to get ahead systemically in America is fucked. 

If you are average you have gotten fucked harder than any time in American history over the last 5 years, and definitely looking like it for the next 20 years. This is the issue. The fucking has been a slow oppressive force since the 70s, but just recently rapidly accelerated to the point of absurdity. 

Programs and institutions that were built to level up the average have done so, their foundations were altruistic and noble. That’s all gone away, now the foundations are built on greed, ego and prestige.  I mean just look at your post.
 

The growth at all costs mindset paired with nepotism, ethical collapse and non merit based selectivity have turned everything into shit. There is not a single billionaire on planet earth under 30 that isn’t a product of nepotism. At a time in history when there are the most billionaires ever. Let that sink in. 

Yes, look at it.  Bitching about billionaires with an avatar (assuming ironically) of Steve Jobs.  All the other billionaires under 30 inherited their wealth.  Take it up with their parents if you have a problem with it.

As for everyone else being "fucked", I disagree to an extent.  There are a myriad of other paths that you can take.  I posted one of them.  Colleges have morphed into businesses now.  We all know that.  Let's get some professors on here and get their take on what options they think are viable.

[Captainant 27309]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Define arbitrary.  How would you prefer companies provide sustained and metered growth for their capital stakeholders? 

I'm suggesting that """sustained and metered growth""" ad infinitum is not a healthy or sustainable business strategy. It ends in the current state that we are discussing in this thread and that you seemingly cannot comprehend. 

In biology when something grows constantly and never finds equilibrium, we tend to call that a cancer. The promises of trickle down have been a lie. Despite more billionaires than ever, we don't have proportionally more jobs and better pay for their workers. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Most folks know that Finland is often ranked as the "happiest" country in the world.  But that doesn't mean that the Finns are exuberant folks, dancing and laughing in the streets.  They don't rank a 10 out of 10 on the "woo hoo we're having a good time" meter.  Rather, they rank highly in every category across the board that translates as "content."  A better word than happy for them is "content" or "satisfied."  They have....enough.  They have time and opportunity to enjoy time with their family and friends.  They can, guilt-free, spend several weeks in the summer at a lakeside cabin (often super simple -- like, no electricity simple).  They sauna, swim, sit by the fire.  Life is GOOD.  They don't have wads of money shoved in their ears, sipping Cristal and driving the fanciest cars.  In the US in particular, we have a warped vision of "happiness," and we've built a system that offers only 1) that vision of happiness (major wealth) or 2) failure.  

We see this example often.  A small, ethnically homogeneous country sitting on massive amounts of natural resources and a VERY low population density.  How do you replicate this?  How do you scale it?  Their happiness peers?  Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, etc.  Same same.  

[lucious leftfoot 126]

19 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

There needs to be a broad idealogical cynicism and rejection to the technology that corporations are selling to enslave our children and rob them of true joy, creativity, and companionship. Fuck Tim Cook and fuck Apple. This is infuriating. 

Tim Apple

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I'm suggesting that """sustained and metered growth""" ad infinitum is not a healthy or sustainable business strategy. It ends in the current state that we are discussing in this thread and that you seemingly cannot comprehend. 

In biology when something grows constantly and never finds equilibrium, we tend to call that a cancer. The promises of trickle down have been a lie. Despite more billionaires than ever, we don't have proportionally more jobs and better pay for their workers. 

There are loads of govt jobs that will provide an annual COLA and are next to impossible to be fired or RIF’d.  Investment wants a return on its capital.  Normal everyday people need companies to excel or their biggest savings (401k/B, pensions, insurance) are fucked.  You understand how big a swath of America doesn’t have but a few grand liquid but 10x that in a retirement account? 

[Captainant 27309]

21 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

And you, my friend, are getting dangerously close to relating to what it's like to be a middle and upper middle class salary+benefits+taxes slave in modern times.

My guy, earning six figures (in Texas at least) is not any type of """slavery""". And miss me with complaining about taxes. I paid more in taxes this last year than my pretax income was when I started working in tech. 

21 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

We are being compressed by both sides and it's a stressful walking on coals for 45 years to get to the green grass of retirement, maybe. Hopefully. Potentially.

We have the easy version of this where we don't have to worry about keeping a roof over our heads or feeding or children, or looking for last minute childcare because your schedule changed and if you don't make it you're fired. You think WE'VE got it rough? 

Edited May 9 by Captainant

[Howlin wolf 133]

I believe this is from the Galloway talk. Sums up things nicely. 

 

 

[Brisketexan 104462]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

We see this example often.  A small, ethnically homogeneous country sitting on massive amounts of natural resources and a VERY low population density.  How do you replicate this?  How do you scale it?  Their happiness peers?  Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, etc.  Same same.  

Well, two problems with this.  Finland is not particularly wealthy or resource-rich (indeed, in recent memory, it suffered significant economic distress).  One of the keys is learning to be content with LESS -- that is, "enough."  We are bad at that, and we've built a system that DISDAINS that (get rich or die tryin').

The second problem is that we have been closer to that broader happiness in our recent past.  A modest house, two modest cars, a steady job that you could hold for life, providing a decent living.  You have backyard barbecues, you spend a couple of weeks at the beach, or road-tripping to national parks.  You can attend State U easily and at low cost.  That was a good life for the middle 2/3 of the country.*

* Yes, I'm acutely aware that "negroes and mexicans" need not apply for such contentment was also a rule at the time.  But the system existed, and could (and sometimes was) easily applied across racial lines.

The key to all of it is limiting drastic disparity.  There should be very few folks at the extreme ends of the bell curve, and those few folks shouldn't hold extremely high or extremely low wealth, either.  

TLDR; we used to have a healthy middle class, now we're doing a damned fine job of killing it.  Don't tell me it can't be done here, because it WAS done here.

[Brisketexan 104462]

1 minute ago, Howlin wolf said:

I believe this is from the Galloway talk. Sums up things nicely. 

 

 

Making my point rather nicely.  "Make a middle-class life achievable again" is a good mantra for us.  But any and all efforts to do so are condemned as "communist socialism!"  We are obsessed with making life as hard as we can, because I guess that proves that if you are happy, you really EARNED it.

[Captainant 27309]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

One of the keys is learning to be content with LESS -- that is, "enough." 

Shareholders and billionaires cannot and will not learn this. That greed and hunger is what drives the constantly escalating growth targets. 

It's infuriating that it's only the wage earners that must learn to say "enough"

[BabaYaga 15202]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, two problems with this.  Finland is not particularly wealthy or resource-rich (indeed, in recent memory, it suffered significant economic distress).  One of the keys is learning to be content with LESS -- that is, "enough."  We are bad at that, and we've built a system that DISDAINS that (get rich or die tryin').

The second problem is that we have been closer to that broader happiness in our recent past.  A modest house, two modest cars, a steady job that you could hold for life, providing a decent living.  You have backyard barbecues, you spend a couple of weeks at the beach, or road-tripping to national parks.  You can attend State U easily and at low cost.  That was a good life for the middle 2/3 of the country.*

* Yes, I'm acutely aware that "negroes and mexicans" need not apply for such contentment was also a rule at the time.  But the system existed, and could (and sometimes was) easily applied across racial lines.

The key to all of it is limiting drastic disparity.  There should be very few folks at the extreme ends of the bell curve, and those few folks shouldn't hold extremely high or extremely low wealth, either.  

TLDR; we used to have a healthy middle class, now we're doing a damned fine job of killing it.  Don't tell me it can't be done here, because it WAS done here.

Huh?  Finland has a shit ton of mining and forestry resources.  Are you thinking O&G resources?

As for the rest of your post - are you referring to trying to make America great again......;)

[Howlin wolf 133]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Making my point rather nicely.  "Make a middle-class life achievable again" is a good mantra for us.  But any and all efforts to do so are condemned as "communist socialism!"  We are obsessed with making life as hard as we can, because I guess that proves that if you are happy, you really EARNED it.

I would argue that government intervention and other centralized planning are the main causes of elevated tuition and home prices over time.

[F250 28659]

14 minutes ago, Howlin wolf said:

I would argue that government intervention and other centralized planning are the main causes of elevated tuition and home prices over time.

[SydneyCarton 47809]

 

16 minutes ago, Howlin wolf said:

I believe this is from the Galloway talk. Sums up things nicely. 

 

 

I'd like to see this slide with post tax income or tax percentage. Not that I'm disagreeing, but I'm curious, I know previous generations were taxed much higher. I don't think it would dimish his slide much, but I'd still like to see it. 

29 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

We see this example often.  A small, ethnically homogeneous country sitting on massive amounts of natural resources and a VERY low population density.  How do you replicate this?  How do you scale it?  Their happiness peers?  Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, etc.  Same same.  

 

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Huh?  Finland has a shit ton of mining and forestry resources.  Are you thinking O&G resources?

As for the rest of your post - are you referring to trying to make America great again......;)

Norway is the one with the shit ton of oil and gas resources. You think the Forestry and Mining in a country of 5 million people the size of Montana is making them wildly wealthy? I'd disagree. 

As a fun aside, lets talk about what makes Norway wealthy AF. Granted this is an AI generated report:

As of July 2023, Norway's oil and gas fund is worth nearly $275,000 per citizen, and is estimated to fund Norway's social costs for 300 years. The fund's goal is to manage Norway's oil and gas revenue responsibly and long-term, so that both current and future generations benefit. The fund invests in public infrastructure and education, and has a diverse portfolio to reduce the risk of losing money if oil and gas prices fall.

Citizens don't get a direct check, but the find continues to grow and supplements state spending. 

8 minutes ago, Howlin wolf said:

I would argue that government intervention and other centralized planning are the main causes of elevated tuition and home prices over time.

I'd like you to support that with an actual explanation and sources. In Texas costs for public college have soared because politics got invovled. Specifically at Texas the lack of adoption of certain curriculum and admission expansion meant a decrease in public funds. Is that what you mean by "government intervention?" Because that's not the vibe I got from your post. 

[Todd Gack 422]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

It’s shocking to me how much people struggle with the law of averages, understanding the median and self awareness of being top quartile. 

The issue isn’t that there aren’t still ways to be successful in the system as it is today, the issue is that it only rewards those at the top. That means you likely came from a good home, got help, or are in some other ways “remarkable” not in the sense that you are a top 1% IQ prodigy, but in the sense that you have the basic tools to function and get ahead in todays society. 

When he talks about “unremarkable” people getting an opportunity this is what he’s talking about. He’s not saying we need sub room temp IQ people going to college, he’s saying that the average person is fucked and that the requirement to be above average to get ahead systemically in America is fucked. 

If you are average you have gotten fucked harder than any time in American history over the last 5 years, and definitely looking like it for the next 20 years. This is the issue. The fucking has been a slow oppressive force since the 70s, but just recently rapidly accelerated to the point of absurdity. 

Programs and institutions that were built to level up the average have done so, their foundations were altruistic and noble. That’s all gone away, now the foundations are built on greed, ego and prestige.  I mean just look at your post.
 

The growth at all costs mindset paired with nepotism, ethical collapse and non merit based selectivity have turned everything into shit. There is not a single billionaire on planet earth under 30 that isn’t a product of nepotism. At a time in history when there are the most billionaires ever. Let that sink in. 

ISWYDT

[SydneyCarton 47809]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

Come on man, you know it's GRUHorn. 

[BabaYaga 15202]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'd like you to support that with an actual explanation and sources. In Texas costs for public college have soared because politics got invovled. Specifically at Texas the lack of adoption of certain curriculum and admission expansion meant a decrease in public funds. Is that what you mean by "government intervention?" Because that's not the vibe I got from your post. 

This.  You can also make the standardization of federal student loans and their higher rates, but that's not the whole story.  

[Brisketexan 104462]

19 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Huh?  Finland has a shit ton of mining and forestry resources.  Are you thinking O&G resources?

As for the rest of your post - are you referring to trying to make America great again......;)

I 100% AM referring to "making America great again."  Only when I use it, I tie it to actual metrics of greatness, not some feeling that is regularly a code term for "when we kept dirty minorities in their place."

Oh, and Finland's path to happiness is NOT because of their relative wealth being greater than ours because of natural resources.  In fact, Finland plainly does more with less:

Finland per capita GDP: $51k

USA per capita GDP: $76k

Finland only has 2/3 the GDP per person that we have....yet they are much happier and more content.  They, literally, do more with less.  It's an entirely different culture.  We were there a bit over a year ago, and my wife observed it pointedly; as we walked through Helsinki, there were numerous signs for parks, and road crossings that showed parents with children crossing (telling us that these were areas that families frequented).  In the museum of Finnish history, they had an entire display that proudly pointed to their "Baby Box" program:

Quote

Since 1949, Finland’s baby box program has provided new parents with parenting essentials. It continues to inspire similar programs worldwide.

The Finnish maternity grant, colloquially known as the “baby box”, is one of the most enduring Finnish social innovations. Since 1949, the Finnish Government has provided expectant parents with a box containing the basic essentials for raising a baby. The boxes had their origin in a 1922 volunteer initiative to reduce infant mortality,[1] and over time, they have become symbolic of Finland’s effort to combat social inequality, and of the belief that all children—regardless of family circumstances—should have the same start in life.

As we were walking back from the museum, my wife commented, with actual tears in her eyes, "they love and value their children."  It isn't just an individual thing, it is woven into their culture and society.  Here?  Not so much.  Once you're born, fuck you, get a job you moocher (only a slight exaggeration -- we deride programs that do things like provide basic nutrition to children, saying "their parents shouldn't suck so much" which is super cool, but....maybe...it isn't the kids' fault if their parents suck, so why should we punish the kids?).

We are seeing the culmination of toxic individualism, and outright disdain and hatred for the common good, caring for your neighbor, etc.  "I got mine, fuck you!" isn't a great national ethos, but it's the one we've chosen.  And yes, to take it back to the main thread topic, younger generations who presently have little choice but to live under and within that dominant ethos, feel the effects.

[Parliament 14112]

34 minutes ago, Howlin wolf said:

I believe this is from the Galloway talk. Sums up things nicely. 

 

 

You got a link by any chance?  I'd like some context.

[Celery Man 20873]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

When he talks about “unremarkable” people getting an opportunity this is what he’s talking about. He’s not saying we need sub room temp IQ people going to college, he’s saying that the average person is fucked and that the requirement to be above average to get ahead systemically in America is fucked. 

 

If you're sitting here surrounded by even moderate success talking about how people simply need to become remarkable in order to have a decent life, congratulations on your privilege because you didn't get where you are by being smart. Most people aren't remarkable and it is important to all of us here participating in society that most people are able to have decent lives.

[52-80 19066]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

The growth at all costs mindset paired with nepotism, ethical collapse and non merit based selectivity have turned everything into shit. There is not a single billionaire on planet earth under 30 that isn’t a product of nepotism. At a time in history when there are the most billionaires ever. Let that sink in. 

Oculus guy, Luckey Palmer. 2 of the 3 Doordash guys. All a tick over 30, worth over $1B before they hit 30.
 

And if you count hundreds of $M, plenty of other silicon valley products - many immigrants - who werent seeded with family money. 

[Brisketexan 104462]

6 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Most people aren't remarkable and it is important to all of us here participating in society that most people are able to have decent lives.

In short form, that's where we fail.

The measure of success for a society should not be how great life is for the top 10%.

The measure of success for a society should be how good - or at least, "good enough" - life is for the remaining 90%.

The problem is, I think that I am in the minority as to that belief in this country.

Edited May 9 by Brisketexan