The Kids (Aren't) Alright - World Happiness Report

[Brisketexan 104537]

31 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

"Describe a leadership setback or challenge you've experienced and how you overcame it." 

"My junior year, I dedicated significant effort towards getting access to Mary Jones' chestal area.  She ignored me, I kept devoting my efforts to the task.  But one day, I stepped back and surveyed the situation, and thought strategically.  I had been wasting my time on a 10 who was never going to give me the time of day, when Mary Jones' good friend, Betty Smith, who was a 7 but had huge tracts of land, was clearly interested in me.  I made the call not to indulge in the "sunk cost" logical fallacy, shifted my effort and attention to Betty, and as a result, spent the spring semester of that year happily exploring certain hills and valleys.  Leaders have to know when to cut their losses, and to shift their attention to other beneficial activities.  I am proud of my decision, and the results I achieved."

 

I presume I'm getting the scholarship, right?

Edited May 13 by Brisketexan

[Brisketexan 104537]

6 minutes ago, F250 said:

There is something about baseball that gets in your blood and makes it hard to quit. I have seen a lot of grown men "chase the dragon" when it comes to baseball. Many players have a strong desire to keep trying to level up in the sport even if it's detrimental to the future. It's similar to aging musicians that keep waiting for their big break that will never come.

Baseball has a lot of opportunities to play after high school but many of those are not very promising for a good financial future. The responsibility of a parent is to guide their almost grown child to make good decisions.

It's on the parents to teach their kids about opportunity cost and what that means if they pursue college baseball at a JUCO or any college including D1 if it doesn't contribute to their future and inevitable job outside of baseball.

And this.  I'm thrilled that the boy is playing baseball now -- not because he has any chance of doing anything with it.  Rather, he's got a new set of friends, hits the pub and bullshits with them after a game, and gets to teach them how to order at McDonald's on the trip home from road games (he explained that roadside dining options in the UK are quite limited....it's pretty much McD's or BK off the highway, and they love them some McD's).  It's something he enjoys, it feeds him, and hey, this Sunday, they won the game against their biggest rival, Edinburgh, so he's pretty pumped.

[DixonHur 11154]

This seems appropriate here...

Lacrosse Karen holding a baby launches foul-mouthed tirade as high school game descends into chaos | Daily Mail Online

[YGIFS 19449]

36 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"My junior year, I dedicated significant effort towards getting access to Mary Jones' chestal area.  She ignored me, I kept devoting my efforts to the task.  But one day, I stepped back and surveyed the situation, and thought strategically.  I had been wasting my time on a 10 who was never going to give me the time of day, when Mary Jones' good friend, Betty Smith, who was a 7 but had huge tracts of land, was clearly interested in me.  I made the call not to indulge in the "sunk cost" logical fallacy, shifted my effort and attention to Betty, and as a result, spent the spring semester of that year happily exploring certain hills and valleys.  Leaders have to know when to cut their losses, and to shift their attention to other beneficial activities.  I am proud of my decision, and the results I achieved."

 

I presume I'm getting the scholarship, right?

I don’t know these ladies but they quite fetching.  
 

And to another point above.  I can’t remember the movie but it came out after I was given the same talk almost verbatim by coach Pete Dunn who took Stetson to multiple conference championships and NCAA baseball tournaments.  I made it to the last cut of tryouts that fall but fell short and he said “every man gets this talk at some point.  You know the game inside and out and I respect your respect for the game.  But your days of organized ball are over.  But you pass on your insight to the next guy.”  And didn’t make the roster.  But I got to play on a D1 diamond one last time.  And I saw straight into the eyes of the baseball gods.  

[956 Worldwide 34411]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

There is something about baseball that gets in your blood and makes it hard to quit. I have seen a lot of grown men "chase the dragon" when it comes to baseball. Many players have a strong desire to keep trying to level up in the sport even if it's detrimental to the future. It's similar to aging musicians that keep waiting for their big break that will never come.

Baseball has a lot of opportunities to play after high school but many of those are not very promising for a good financial future. The responsibility of a parent is to guide their almost grown child to make good decisions.

It's on the parents to teach their kids about opportunity cost and what that means if they pursue college baseball at a JUCO or any college including D1 if it doesn't contribute to their future and inevitable job outside of baseball.

Baseball is beautiful and frustrating in that the sheer inborn talent and skill you need to be great is tremendous, as much if not more than any sport. But the gulf is much subtler and less immediate and less “in your face” physical than other games. 
 

A smart, very good but not great ball player will make some plays in the field against D1 competition, might get a handle of a couple pitches. But the coach will see— you can NEVER tweak your swing enough, you will NEVER get the extra step base-running, you will NEVER have the arm to make all the throws reliably. It’s hard for you to accept that though. 
 

One day on a football field you don’t belong (Rudy notwithstanding) and you will get beat up and pushed around and burned and you’ll know that the field isn’t for you.  One day against D1 basketball players and you will get clowned in a way that you can’t lie to yourself about.  You can run against a D1 track athlete over and over and over and you will NEVER get lucky and win, or even look like you could one day, same for swimmers. It is obvious and it’s not humiliating—- it’s just a realization that they are a different species than you. 
 

Golf is one that convinces people they can really be great if they just keep going. 

[BabaYaga 15205]

14 hours ago, YGIFS said:

And she's got these friends who are into cheer camps and away tours/competitions/whatever

Any parent that bitches about the time it takes to invest their kids in sports had better not bitch around cheer parents.  Oh boy.  Neighbor does that.  They travel the country.  Competitions that they have to spend 6-8hrs at for a 2 minute, 30 second routine.  No thanks.  

Swimming is a close second.

[troph 24560]

15 hours ago, YGIFS said:

And that 6 year old's name?  You guessed it.  Tony Gwynn! 

We live literally in the shadow of one of the biggest football powerhouse High Schools in all of the Lone Star State.  And I still chuckle at some of the dad's I know who ask me about connecting them with UT coaches and scholarship folks so their sons can get a leg up on the competition before college applications/recruiting season ramps up.  And I have to maintain a straight face when a parental couple, both of whom are 5'7" in heels ask me about basketball chances for their boy.  Or a kid who can't even figure out how to put on a baseball glove at 12, let alone hit a breaking ball.  And no, your kid who is still having trouble with the alphabet in middle school is probably not gonna get a letter of recommendation from me for any university.  

My oldest has been doing some more sporting leagues this last two years since we came outta Covid.  And I love that she realizes first and foremost-be a good teammate.  Second-respect the rules.  Third-worry about winning.  In that order.  Precisely.  And despite the competitive nature of the community in Austin which we find ourselves, all of the leagues/tournaments/sports have been pretty chill and kinda follow the order I just described.  But on Sunday, her team finally ran into one of those teams run by two asshats who think every girl on their squad is gonna play championship volleyball at UT someday.  And they sure as shit acted the part.  It was like watching Coach Bobby Knight scream at 9 year olds.  On Mother's Day, mind you.  

Teach 'em teamwork, respect for rules and officials.  Then scores/wins.  And pepper in fun wherever you can.  Spoiler alert---do the math.  There's a very finite number of roster spots for student-athletes of any gender, in a fixed number of sports across three divisions and NAIA (only 50% of which actually award athletic scholarships, and even then only partial for the most part).  

Statistically speaking, your kid has a better chance of becoming a paid rally car racer than a paid NIL baseball player at a D1 program.  Maybe some folks should tap the brakes, hug their kids, and teach them Mandarin.  

The professionalization of youth sports, music, arts and academics is easily as much of the problem for kids as social media or anything else.

trying to get good instruction, learn the values that come with team sports, and reject the 10,000 hour rule for a 12 year old is hard to do. 

[BabaYaga 15205]

12 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Golf is one that convinces people they can really be great if they just keep going. 

Maybe.  Whole family is obsessed with gold minus myself.  I think it's more of a social sport you don't have to be very good at to enjoy and it's something you can play up into your "golden years".  Pops play with a group of old guys that consistently shoot their age.  Get's them out and about and they can spend time together 

[Frank Drebin 5611]

Golf is one sport if you play a lot you can get good.  I used to shoot in the mid 70s routinely in college because I played a 2-3 times per week.

Now I am happy playing bogey golf because I am lucky to play a couple times per month.  Too many shots go out of bounds now and short game is rusty.

When I retire, I plan on playing a lot.

[YGIFS 19449]

Yeah, I probably average out to 1-2 full rounds per year over the last few decades.  But I could see myself getting into it when I get older, wife is pretty good at is as well.  

But to tie it back to youth sports.  I've got a friend whose son is pretty good apparently and goes to tournaments every weekend plus their home course.  And they both have their eyes set on him getting a golf scholarship for college.  Arguably the most limited number of scholarships of any elite sport (IIRC).  I would never ask their personal business, but I would think home club dues, plus the kid going out once a week and multiple times in the summer, plus pro instruction, plus tournament travel and fees, never mind that the dad goes out there to watch which is a 4-hour commitment, and equipment obviously.  For a decade.  I'm sure they enjoy the experience and the time out of the house, but that's gotta be all-in several hundreds of thousands of dollars.  And what's the average recruiting class size for a D1 golf team, maybe 3-4?  That's a big fucking gamble to maybe get a partial ride to New Mexico State.  

[Frank Drebin 5611]

27 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, I probably average out to 1-2 full rounds per year over the last few decades.  But I could see myself getting into it when I get older, wife is pretty good at is as well.  

But to tie it back to youth sports.  I've got a friend whose son is pretty good apparently and goes to tournaments every weekend plus their home course.  And they both have their eyes set on him getting a golf scholarship for college.  Arguably the most limited number of scholarships of any elite sport (IIRC).  I would never ask their personal business, but I would think home club dues, plus the kid going out once a week and multiple times in the summer, plus pro instruction, plus tournament travel and fees, never mind that the dad goes out there to watch which is a 4-hour commitment, and equipment obviously.  For a decade.  I'm sure they enjoy the experience and the time out of the house, but that's gotta be all-in several hundreds of thousands of dollars.  And what's the average recruiting class size for a D1 golf team, maybe 3-4?  That's a big fucking gamble to maybe get a partial ride to New Mexico State.  

The counter-argument is if you have a girl who is athletic and likes golf.  Wide open for scholarships.

A lot of golfers are members of clubs.  It does not cost much extra for the kids to play.  And I would rather mine be at the club playing golf than doing a lot of other stuff.

[YGIFS 19449]

Yeah, women's golf scholarships are plentiful.  I know a few friends who have daughters that got pretty nice offers.  Soccer, swimming, and rowing are the other ones I recommend for females that have some modicum of athleticism.  Size doesn't matter all that much in those 3 like it does with VB, hoops, etc.  And all 3 of those sports have double-digit full rides to give out ever single year and unlike cheerleading or field hockey, it's pretty fucking difficult to suffer a neck injury in swimming.  

To your other point, there's obviously bonding elements to playing with the kid, and it gets 'em off screens or booze for 5 hours to play a full round.  Completely anecdotal, but the guy I referenced, they joined the club just for the kid to have a home course (dad plays as well but for work).  But the schedule and coaching and everything he described with annual dues........they're back of the envelope, gonna be out $200-$300k for a slight chance at a $15k half-scholarship for 4 years at some half-ass college.  I mean, the journey/time together is part of it all, I get it.  But you can turn your kid into Doogie Howser for less time and money than that, and save lives.  I dunno.  To each their own, that's why I don't ask him.  I just get inquiries all the time from friends and business colleagues about their kids chances at playing something at UT.  Like, "You mean your kid that still doesn't know he's not left-handed and can't finish a sentence without 3 'likes' in it, that guy?"  

[BabaYaga 15205]

45 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I know a few friends who have daughters that got pretty nice offers.  Soccer, swimming, and rowing are the other ones I recommend for females that have some modicum of athleticism. 

[BabaYaga 15205]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, women's golf scholarships are plentiful.  I know a few friends who have daughters that got pretty nice offers.  Soccer, swimming, and rowing are the other ones I recommend for females that have some modicum of athleticism.  Size doesn't matter all that much in those 3 like it does with VB, hoops, etc.  And all 3 of those sports have double-digit full rides to give out ever single year and unlike cheerleading or field hockey, it's pretty fucking difficult to suffer a neck injury in swimming.  

To your other point, there's obviously bonding elements to playing with the kid, and it gets 'em off screens or booze for 5 hours to play a full round.  Completely anecdotal, but the guy I referenced, they joined the club just for the kid to have a home course (dad plays as well but for work).  But the schedule and coaching and everything he described with annual dues........they're back of the envelope, gonna be out $200-$300k for a slight chance at a $15k half-scholarship for 4 years at some half-ass college.  I mean, the journey/time together is part of it all, I get it.  But you can turn your kid into Doogie Howser for less time and money than that, and save lives.  I dunno.  To each their own, that's why I don't ask him.  I just get inquiries all the time from friends and business colleagues about their kids chances at playing something at UT.  Like, "You mean your kid that still doesn't know he's not left-handed and can't finish a sentence without 3 'likes' in it, that guy?"  

I think a lot of that comes from the parents - it's "cooler" to be able to brag about your D1 athlete than your kid taking microbiology and acing their labs.  

[YGIFS 19449]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Yeah, your mom goes to college.  /kip

[Brisketexan 104537]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I think a lot of that comes from the parents - it's "cooler" to be able to brag about your D1 athlete than your kid taking microbiology and acing their labs.  

Yeah, there's definitely a foundational issue of parents living vicariously through their kids and their achievements (which, on some level, is only human and is to be expected).  Whether you're bragging because little Johnny hit a home run or because he won a spelling bee, there's some "look at my kid" going on there.  It's when it's taken to extremes, and/or at the expense of other more sensible things, that it's a problem.

A secondary issue with living vicariously through athletics is the "so what?" factor.  Your kid led his high school team in stolen bases.  Cool.  Seriously, that's cool.  But is he gonna make 7 figures plus in MLB because of it?  Odds are the answer is "no."  So he might as well have just won his 10th straight hand of gin.  It's cool that he's good at something, that he worked hard at it, and that it paid off.  That's the takeaway.  Oh, and that he's happy.  I sure as hell loved watching my son work on a baseball skill and seeing it pay off, and seeing HIM take joy and satisfaction in the payoff.  

These days, I'm more likely to brag on my kids about the things I'm jealous of: dude gets to live in Scotland, he's a hit with the girls, he's turned into a damned good cook, he's a solid baseball player on a fun adult league team that has him bouncing around Scotland, he's studying cool central and eastern european stuff and doing well at it.  The girl is living in London, finding her way, speaking four languages, building a network of friends and colleagues all over the world.  But for both of them, the metric that resonates with me is "are they doing some things that feed them, make them happy, and advance them as people?"  It sucks when they aren't, and I feel that for them.  But one thing that's damned clear to me - as much as I will brag on my kids (and I will, I'm really proud of them), their accomplishments are theirs.  I don't get to take ownership of those, and I'd be a dick if I tried.

[Howlin wolf 133]

8 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Any parent that bitches about the time it takes to invest their kids in sports had better not bitch around cheer parents.  Oh boy.  Neighbor does that.  They travel the country.  Competitions that they have to spend 6-8hrs at for a 2 minute, 30 second routine.  No thanks.  

Swimming is a close second.

My oldest daughter got into cheer after doing tumbling classes for a few years. We just happened to live close to a top gym. Classes, dues, uniforms, travel. I’ve always avoided adding up the cost. It's has to be 30-40k a year, especially when you end up taking the family to Disney and all.

[BabaYaga 15205]

2 minutes ago, Howlin wolf said:

It's has to be 30-40k a year, especially when you end up taking the family to Disney and all.

I'd pay 30-40k NOT to have to go to Disney...

[Howlin wolf 133]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'd pay 30-40k NOT to have to go to Disney...

Yeah not my favorite but each one of my kids has loved it at that certain age. 

 

 

[YGIFS 19449]

$40,000 a year for cheerleading?  Seriously?  Not judging you personally but that's fucking insane considering the lack of upside and head trauma potential.  

I had to tell my girls recently, if you help with this around the house and that around the yard and blah blah blah.  We can seriously discuss going to Disneyland in the next year or two.  But we are never going to DisneyWorld.  I went to college for two years near Orlando and I saw people that nobody else should ever have to see.  If that whole area was annihilated by a half dozen warheads, I don't think this country would skip a beat.  

Now then, back to talk of rowing scholarships.  

[Biff Tannen 45491]

10 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Maybe.  Whole family is obsessed with gold minus myself.  I think it's more of a social sport you don't have to be very good at to enjoy and it's something you can play up into your "golden years".  Pops play with a group of old guys that consistently shoot their age.  Get's them out and about and they can spend time together 

[Howlin wolf 133]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

$40,000 a year for cheerleading?  Seriously?  Not judging you personally but that's fucking insane considering the lack of upside and head trauma potential.  

Eh. You can judge, doesn't bother me. There’s other things that go into ROI besides purely dollars. It’s one thing my teenage daughter really cares about and works hard at, so enabling some hard work and seeing results is a positive. She wants to be a UT cheerleader. I imagine it will happen so that counts for something. Head trauma I’m not worried about, she isn't a flyer. 

Fortunately, 40 Grand is something we can swing. I'm shocked though at the socio-economic class of a lot of cheer families. They cut some corners and definitely don't spend quite as much, but it is very similar to certain people we’ve all seen overspending on things like fireworks or theme parks. 🤣

[YGIFS 19449]

What about a cheer camp with fireworks?  Think of the margins of that.  

Yeah, not judging.  Just speaking from conversations with other parents who have kids way into cheer competition and stuff.  Just seems insane from a cost and time standpoint but if the kid likes it and you get to bond, more power to you.  I just apparently know a lot of crazy people who would say the same about me.  I guess the "flyer" thing is an important differentiator.  I have seen multiple girls get tossed up at games and my daughter's gymnastics place and fall so awkwardly.  But I guess the majority of the squad is in a relatively "safe" position.  My oldest, thankfully, kinda knows inherently that she's not built for cheer.  She's tall and lanky and has good rhythm.  But isn't well coordinated.  She really wanted to go all in on cheer a couple of years ago but instead is focusing on some other stuff (basketball, VB, and dance).  

There was some "and now...a very special profile of U.S. Olympic Gymnast........xyz" during the 2016 games IIRC.  And it was this dad talking about driving his girl every morning at 5am before he had to get some shitty ass job so she could train before school.  And he just broke into tears in the interview.  And said something to the effect of, "All the other parents are there to push their kids to win or get a scholarship or get on a tour team.  But I ran on fumes to take her every single day because of the look in her eyes.  She just loved it and loved the challenge and pushing herself.  I never said a word.  I just drove her and watched her and took her to school and she just gleaned."  Or something to that effect.  And I'm not crying, you're crying!  

[BabaYaga 15205]

13 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Dammit.  Good catch...

[Nivek 16843]

15 hours ago, YGIFS said:

$40,000 a year for cheerleading?  Seriously?  Not judging you personally but that's fucking insane considering the lack of upside and head trauma potential.  

I had to tell my girls recently, if you help with this around the house and that around the yard and blah blah blah.  We can seriously discuss going to Disneyland in the next year or two.  But we are never going to DisneyWorld.  I went to college for two years near Orlando and I saw people that nobody else should ever have to see.  If that whole area was annihilated by a half dozen warheads, I don't think this country would skip a beat.  

Now then, back to talk of rowing scholarships.  

Disney World is fantastic.  Having grown up down there I have been several times.  I took my kids there a couple of years ago and they had a blast and so did my wife.   A lot has changed since I was a kid (the Magic Shop on Main Street I missed).   It was expensive but they got to have an experience like no other.   It is not like they have Toys R US to go to. 

[YGIFS 19449]

An Orlando Toys R' Us?  Thanks for the nightmare fuel.  

Went a few times to DW as a kid, and I remember my father just fuming the whole time.  Two trips to DisneyLand were much more enjoyable.  With better weather and people.  Obviously the whole DW/Kisimme/StCloud metroplex has more other shit to do, but I guess I'm also still obviously clearly insane from DW because I fell off a 5' brick wall my father set me up on to light a cigarette.  

csb/  I think it's still my earliest childhood memory.  I was about 3.5yo.  And my grandparents had just gotten a place in Florida to start their semi-retirement from Chicago.  And we saw them and then went to Orlando.  And I remember we parked and I saw that monorail deal and I thought that was the whole park, that was it, that was the ride.  Then we went to Tampa to either Busch Gardens of SeaWorld, can't remember exactly but I kinda remember the drive.  And then one more day back at DW with grandparents before we flew out and I recall being super bummed out you couldn't go up into the various towers and steeples of the Magic Kingdom.  And that's when I cracked my head open and we had to stay a few extra days while I was under observation.  And as you can all clearly tell, I haven't been right ever since.  

[troph 24560]

so I'm Gen X as a lot of you are. It got really creative after that, Gen Y, Gen Z now Gen Alpha. Speaking of happiness of kids, what about the next generation, are they gonna be labelled Gen Beta because if so, we got a whole other problem brewing in the background. thank god it won't be my kids.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

Gen Y

wat

[troph 24560]

27 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

wat

wat? wat?

Gen Y / Millennials same gen.

[Brisketexan 104537]

My wife prefers an early name that came up for Gen Z -- the iGen.  They are the first generation that grew up with smartphones available their entire conscious lives.  Like, I remember my daughter at 3 yrs old, who was terrified of thunderstorms; we'd hear a rumble of thunder, and she'd grab my Blackberry that I had back then and say "daddy, please look at the radar" (a radar and tide chart app were some of the first apps I ever had on that old device).  I'd pull it up, and we'd see if the weather was heading our way. The point is, she assumed that all necessary information was available in your pocket from her earliest days.  That's an entirely different way of existing and thinking of the world, and theirs is the first generation that didn't know of a world that was any other way.  Anthropologically, it's fascinating.

And a bit terrifying.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

46 minutes ago, troph said:

wat? wat?

Gen Y / Millennials same gen.

Just never heard anyone refer to us as Gen Y

[DixonHur 11154]

32 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Just never heard anyone refer to us as Gen Y

A Gen so nice they named it twice.

But let's be honest, Gen X is the coolest generation name.

[Pescado_Rojo 19330]

On 5/14/2024 at 7:32 AM, BabaYaga said:

Any parent that bitches about the time it takes to invest their kids in sports had better not bitch around cheer parents.  Oh boy.  Neighbor does that.  They travel the country.  Competitions that they have to spend 6-8hrs at for a 2 minute, 30 second routine.  No thanks.  

Swimming is a close second.

Son is a swimmer, daughter runs track. The worst "Cost per minute" had to be round trip airfare and 3 days in a hotel to watch your daughter run for 58 seconds at AAU Jr Olympics. 

Both my kids thought they wanted to run/swim in college...until some of their older teammates got the opportunity and came home with stories about how much it sucked. As Brisket posted above, it's a huge time commitment, and unless you're Olympics level elite you'd almost always be better off having a traditional college experience. 

[Captainant 27403]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Just never heard anyone refer to us as Gen Y

It was the "in" thing for a minute because of gen X and Z, and millennials being between the two groups

[troph 24560]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Just never heard anyone refer to us as Gen Y

it's a common term.

[troph 24560]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

It was the "in" thing for a minute because of gen X and Z, and millennials being between the two groups

Gen Y is an original term along with Millennials.

[Pescado_Rojo 19330]

19 minutes ago, troph said:

it's a common term.

[utee94 15744]

2 hours ago, troph said:

Gen Y is an original term along with Millennials.

 

3 hours ago, Captainant said:

It was the "in" thing for a minute because of gen X and Z, and millennials being between the two groups

Gen Y is the original term, simply because it came after Gen X.  "Millennials" was a later designation that ended up sticking.  Similarly, some folks are now trying to call Gen Z the "Zoomers."  But I'm not sure if that one will stick, in the way Millennials did.

[YGIFS 19449]

Yeah, I'm a "younger" Gen X'er.  But we gotta all just stop for a second and stop yelling at clouds about these gosh darn "Millennials" and these young people today with their privilege, wokeness, lack of manners, and entitlement.  They are fucking 43 years old now.  Our age group has plenty other shit to make up reasons to whine about.  I mean, yeah the "Millennials" disconnect with our upbringing was a thing for a few months like 15 years ago, and yes kids born in the 80's are just different now than we are having been born in the 70's due to external factors.  But c'mon, some of them have grandchildren now and we're all still bitching, "These darn millennials with their song lyrics and their complicated shoes!"  

[tbone_ 14020]

Very millennial to not know what your generation was called.

[Thatguy 8492]

On 5/13/2024 at 3:46 PM, YGIFS said:

And that 6 year old's name?  You guessed it.  Tony Gwynn! 

We live literally in the shadow of one of the biggest football powerhouse High Schools in all of the Lone Star State.  And I still chuckle at some of the dad's I know who ask me about connecting them with UT coaches and scholarship folks so their sons can get a leg up on the competition before college applications/recruiting season ramps up.  And I have to maintain a straight face when a parental couple, both of whom are 5'7" in heels ask me about basketball chances for their boy.  Or a kid who can't even figure out how to put on a baseball glove at 12, let alone hit a breaking ball.  And no, your kid who is still having trouble with the alphabet in middle school is probably not gonna get a letter of recommendation from me for any university.  

My oldest has been doing some more sporting leagues this last two years since we came outta Covid.  And I love that she realizes first and foremost-be a good teammate.  Second-respect the rules.  Third-worry about winning.  In that order.  Precisely.  And despite the competitive nature of the community in Austin which we find ourselves, all of the leagues/tournaments/sports have been pretty chill and kinda follow the order I just described.  But on Sunday, her team finally ran into one of those teams run by two asshats who think every girl on their squad is gonna play championship volleyball at UT someday.  And they sure as shit acted the part.  It was like watching Coach Bobby Knight scream at 9 year olds.  On Mother's Day, mind you.  

Teach 'em teamwork, respect for rules and officials.  Then scores/wins.  And pepper in fun wherever you can.  Spoiler alert---do the math.  There's a very finite number of roster spots for student-athletes of any gender, in a fixed number of sports across three divisions and NAIA (only 50% of which actually award athletic scholarships, and even then only partial for the most part).  

Statistically speaking, your kid has a better chance of becoming a paid rally car racer than a paid NIL baseball player at a D1 program.  Maybe some folks should tap the brakes, hug their kids, and teach them Mandarin.  

 

On 5/13/2024 at 4:16 PM, BabaYaga said:

The kid has to want it on their own.  That's what you can't "teach".  My son pivoted and it going in another direction from sports.  The other is a complete little psychopath I have to reign that one back to keep from redlining all the time.  Both will be successful (I pray) in whatever fields they go into.  Sports teaches a lot.  One oft overlooked facet is just good old fashioned grit.  If you have to scream at the kids to get them to perform, it's the coaching equivalent of a sugar-rush.  It works initially, but quickly wears off and doesn't provide much staying power.  Teach them about goals.  Setting them.  Achieving them.  From talking to other parents who have walked the walk through D1 athletics, also be careful what you wish for.  There's a reason there are so few of them out there.  It's fucking hard and can grind you into moon dust.  They also can get hurt.  Now what?  What's the fallback plan?  You can lose an ACL.  Grit is harder to come by.  

I love seeing Texas players make it to the NFL.  What I love even more, players that were marginal or got hurt, and you find out later they have graduate degrees and are crushing it in life off the field.  

 

On 5/13/2024 at 4:23 PM, Brisketexan said:

My kids have several college-level athletes from among their friend/acquaintances ranks.  Some are quite close friends, some are just kids they knew.  None of these kids are "world class, major league" talents.  They were all good enough to play a sport/swim etc. in college.

Without exception....all of them didn't care for the experience in some degree.  The time it took, the toll on the body, the culture around it -- for various reasons, they either hung it up before their college career was done, or regret sticking with it through the end.  I'm sure for those who are genuine world-class talents (as in, will likely do it professionally), the take can be different.  But as the old Big XII ads pointed out, 95% of college athletes will be going pro in something other than athletics.  Most of those kids had "grit" - they stuck with something long enough to make it to the college level.  But reality sinks in.  You're killing yourself and taking away damned near everything else in your life for the single-minded pursuit of....one athletic endeavor.  Not me.  In college, I chased both beer AND girls.  And I went fishing.  And hunting.  And on road trips.  And I made friends from a variety of circles.  And I chased more beer, and more girls.

If you want your kid to get a college scholarship, you're much better off paying for tutors and test-prep courses.  Those things have the added advantage of helping them get educated, too.

 

On 5/13/2024 at 4:47 PM, YGIFS said:

Yep, good points all.  I want my girls to learn teamwork and sportsmanship and hustle and determination.  And so far the leagues have been all about that and a buncha fun mixed in.  but I guess my oldest is just at that age now where some parents and coaches are getting so much more serious and 'ass-holish.'  And she's got these friends who are into cheer camps and away tours/competitions/whatever.  Which every box-faced East Texas female has-been needs to remember, is actually the sport with the most injuries:participant ration than any other athletic endeavor and spoiler alert---even if you're awesome and don't sustain an neck injury doing it---there's no fucking money in it.  It just abuses young girls like a Catholic Priest on sabbatical.  

I mean, I look back at my baseball and swim coaches (I played a few others but was only good at these two so had lots of intensive experiences) and yeah--they were assholes and mean but it was underneath about teamwork and effort and respect for the game.  Then about 20 years ago somebody got wise and invented an sub-industry where all of the sudden, despite a static number of scholarships and roster spots, that every kid was uber-talented and for just 8 weeks and $2000, your child can go from good to great to exceptional.  And also, we'll need you to set aside every weekend of your life for the next 14 years and get ready to put serious mileage on your vehicle.  

Sports and Politics.  The ability to manipulate stupid people reigns supreme.  As per usual, my prize lack of imagination.  

 

On 5/13/2024 at 5:29 PM, Brisketexan said:

And....it makes no difference as to whether your kid is going to get a scholarship to a good university or not.   Sure, if you're marginal, maybe putting in exceptional effort bumps you up to get an offer from D2 or D3 U, congrats on your admission and free tuition to Bridgewater State U.  But let's be clear: functionally ZERO kids who get a scholarship offer to a good D1 school (UT, Purdue, Michigan, what have you) got that offer because of the 6 summers they spent playing select ball or somesuch.  When it comes to having D1-level talent, it's a lot like having pro-level talent: you either have it, or you don't.

I remember reading about baseball scouts who could go to high school baseball showcases, with 100 players out on the field showing their stuff.  The scouts commented that they could tell from watching around 30 seconds of a player's action whether he had the stuff to be considered a real prospect, and out of those 100, MAYBE 2-3 players would make that initial cut.  And that's just to be considered a prospect, not a lock to actually make it to the next level.  And I know I've told the story around here about my old law partner whose kids played youth sports with Drew Brees.  It didn't matter if it was blindfolded Albanian Badminton they were playing, Drew was the best athlete on the field.  At everything, always, since he was 5 years old.  No amount of practice or clinics or select ball was going to turn my friend's athletic, skilled kids into Drew Brees.  And Drew's family didn't even let him start playing "select" ball (which everyone else wanted him to do) until late middle school or something like that.  He didn't miss out on any development because he missed several seasons of select ball.  He's got an earned Super Bowl MVP trophy, because he was a god-given great athlete.  That's what it takes.

My son is a good baseball player.  He loves it, played since T-ball.  He's playing now, in an adult rec league overseas, and it makes him happy.  He's one of the better players on a top squad, but he's far from the best.  He gets the experience of being part of a team, meeting folks, travel for games, all the good stuff you want out of sports.  Kids will have a pretty healthy attitude about sports, if their parents will get out of the way.

Tying back to the thread topic: I think the kids are, all-in-all, alright.  It's the adults who are fucky.

 

On 5/13/2024 at 5:49 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

Way back in the early 2000s, I had a a friend who played D2 volleyball on a partial scholarship who went over how much cash her dad spent on club teams and travel and etc but “then I got a scholarship so all worth it.” She did not respond well to the info that all that money dropped into a 529 account would have covered the partial scholarship and much more. 

 

On 5/13/2024 at 5:51 PM, Brisketexan said:

Bingo.  99% of parents who say shit like "all of this time and money is an investment to get my kid an athletic scholarship!" are very, very, very bad at math.

 

On 5/13/2024 at 5:54 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

To be clear, I support parents being behind kids and helping them excel and pursue sports or music or whatever.  Just go in with your eyes open and don’t pretend that it’s an investment for a scholarship. Even below the D1 level, doing college sports is absolutely doing college on hard mode and if the goal is education, then make it about education. 

 

On 5/13/2024 at 6:01 PM, YGIFS said:

Yep, as posted above.  There are obvious benefits to team sports.  In the end, you're better off though just doing a couple things per year, saving your time and money and travel, and putting it towards academics or art or music.  In the end, worst case scenario---the kid gets knowledge or an instrument or art media that doesn't conk out at 25 but rather lasts until 95.  

Every year, I have the good fortunate to give out a lot of other people's money for myriad scholarships.  And invariably when we go the part about, "Describe a leadership setback or challenge you've experienced and how you overcame it."  90% of the kids will say something to the effect of, "On my high school sports team, we were losing and I had to rally my teammates to try harder like a less convincing Gene Hackman in Hoosiers." And the other 10% will have a narrative akin to "I saw xyz issue going unaddressed in my school/family/church/community so while I'm not an extrovert or vocal, I decided to step up, chart a path, and lead the way."  That second kid gets my vote every time.  

I don't care how many weekends you spent on a travel team to do some 9-hour competition in Houston in basketball or badminton.  That's all well and good.  But the kid who spends that many weekends learning another language or starting a non-profit or just helping old people clean their gutters.  They get the scholarship almost every time.  There is character to be built on the court and even in practice, but that's when coach is watching.  I respect the kid that does the work when nobody is looking or clapping.  

 

On 5/14/2024 at 7:32 AM, BabaYaga said:

Any parent that bitches about the time it takes to invest their kids in sports had better not bitch around cheer parents.  Oh boy.  Neighbor does that.  They travel the country.  Competitions that they have to spend 6-8hrs at for a 2 minute, 30 second routine.  No thanks.  

Swimming is a close second.

 

On 5/14/2024 at 12:24 PM, BabaYaga said:

I think a lot of that comes from the parents - it's "cooler" to be able to brag about your D1 athlete than your kid taking microbiology and acing their labs.  

 

On 5/14/2024 at 3:52 PM, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, there's definitely a foundational issue of parents living vicariously through their kids and their achievements (which, on some level, is only human and is to be expected).  Whether you're bragging because little Johnny hit a home run or because he won a spelling bee, there's some "look at my kid" going on there.  It's when it's taken to extremes, and/or at the expense of other more sensible things, that it's a problem.

A secondary issue with living vicariously through athletics is the "so what?" factor.  Your kid led his high school team in stolen bases.  Cool.  Seriously, that's cool.  But is he gonna make 7 figures plus in MLB because of it?  Odds are the answer is "no."  So he might as well have just won his 10th straight hand of gin.  It's cool that he's good at something, that he worked hard at it, and that it paid off.  That's the takeaway.  Oh, and that he's happy.  I sure as hell loved watching my son work on a baseball skill and seeing it pay off, and seeing HIM take joy and satisfaction in the payoff.  

These days, I'm more likely to brag on my kids about the things I'm jealous of: dude gets to live in Scotland, he's a hit with the girls, he's turned into a damned good cook, he's a solid baseball player on a fun adult league team that has him bouncing around Scotland, he's studying cool central and eastern european stuff and doing well at it.  The girl is living in London, finding her way, speaking four languages, building a network of friends and colleagues all over the world.  But for both of them, the metric that resonates with me is "are they doing some things that feed them, make them happy, and advance them as people?"  It sucks when they aren't, and I feel that for them.  But one thing that's damned clear to me - as much as I will brag on my kids (and I will, I'm really proud of them), their accomplishments are theirs.  I don't get to take ownership of those, and I'd be a dick if I tried.

 

On 5/14/2024 at 4:13 PM, Howlin wolf said:

My oldest daughter got into cheer after doing tumbling classes for a few years. We just happened to live close to a top gym. Classes, dues, uniforms, travel. I’ve always avoided adding up the cost. It's has to be 30-40k a year, especially when you end up taking the family to Disney and all.

 

On 5/14/2024 at 6:00 PM, YGIFS said:

$40,000 a year for cheerleading?  Seriously?  Not judging you personally but that's fucking insane considering the lack of upside and head trauma potential.  

I had to tell my girls recently, if you help with this around the house and that around the yard and blah blah blah.  We can seriously discuss going to Disneyland in the next year or two.  But we are never going to DisneyWorld.  I went to college for two years near Orlando and I saw people that nobody else should ever have to see.  If that whole area was annihilated by a half dozen warheads, I don't think this country would skip a beat.  

Now then, back to talk of rowing scholarships.  

 

On 5/14/2024 at 7:41 PM, Howlin wolf said:

Eh. You can judge, doesn't bother me. There’s other things that go into ROI besides purely dollars. It’s one thing my teenage daughter really cares about and works hard at, so enabling some hard work and seeing results is a positive. She wants to be a UT cheerleader. I imagine it will happen so that counts for something. Head trauma I’m not worried about, she isn't a flyer. 

Fortunately, 40 Grand is something we can swing. I'm shocked though at the socio-economic class of a lot of cheer families. They cut some corners and definitely don't spend quite as much, but it is very similar to certain people we’ve all seen overspending on things like fireworks or theme parks. 🤣

 Man, listen to all of you guys. Just like not all these kids are going to play D1 sports, not all the kids are going to be at the top of their class academically either. No matter how hard you push them if they aren't driven academically they will fall short the same way if they aren't driven athletically. You have to see what kind of kid you have and respond accordingly. If you have a kid who excels academically then go for it. However, if you have a kid who is NOT going to be at the top of the food chain academically what do you do? Idle hands right? To some people keeping their kid too busy to get in trouble far outweighs the monetary loss, not to mention the life lessons one learns along the way.

We happen to have the kid who is among the small percentage that can play a D1 sport. She is a solid student, but isn't at the top of her class. Her athletic ability is opening doors to colleges she couldn't otherwise get into. Some of those schools are pretty expensive annually and far exceed the amount of money we've spent on club sports. My wife and I know the grind. We also know not owing 200k+ is a good way to kick off her life. We would much rather give her that money to buy a home.

 

 

 

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

8 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Man, listen to all of you guys. Just like not all these kids are going to play D1 sports, not all the kids are going to be at the top of their class academically either. No matter how hard you push them if they aren't driven academically they will fall short the same way if they aren't driven athletically. You have to see what kind of kid you have and respond accordingly. If you have a kid who excels academically then go for it. However, if you have a kid who is NOT going to be at the top of the food chain academically what do you do? Idle hands right? To some people keeping their kid too busy to get in trouble far outweighs the monetary loss, not to mention the life lessons one learns along the way.

We happen to have the kid who is among the small percentage that can play a D1 sport. She is a solid student, but isn't at the top of her class. Her athletic ability is opening doors to colleges she couldn't otherwise get into. Some of those schools are pretty expensive annually and far exceed the amount of money we've spent on club sports. My wife and I know the grind. We also know not owing 200k+ is a good way to kick off her life. We would much rather give her that money to buy a home.

 

 

 

 

And....you just described the perfect case for a kid for whom athletics and a D-1 scholarship may be the perfect path.

I don't think any of us said that the D-1 scholarship path has no place.  Rather, our observation is that the vast majority of folks who focus on that path are 1) making a sub-optimal decision (i.e., spend the money on tutoring and such, which is more likely to pay off for that kid) 2) for the wrong reasons (you want to live through your kid's accomplishments).

[YGIFS 19449]

Thatguy,

that’s awesome for your daughter.  And surely your must realize how unique she is to be able to attend a quality institution and be able to play high level athletics.  
 

but 95% of sports parents don’t accept that the same opportunity won’t be there for their child.  
 

Every athlete will be told sometime between 18-38 that their time in organized, competitive play is over.  But knowledge and education and the arts last forever.  Seems like you get that you’d be shocked how few other parents do. 

[TwiceHorn 31240]

On 5/13/2024 at 5:29 PM, Brisketexan said:

And....it makes no difference as to whether your kid is going to get a scholarship to a good university or not.   Sure, if you're marginal, maybe putting in exceptional effort bumps you up to get an offer from D2 or D3 U, congrats on your admission and free tuition to Bridgewater State U.  But let's be clear: functionally ZERO kids who get a scholarship offer to a good D1 school (UT, Purdue, Michigan, what have you) got that offer because of the 6 summers they spent playing select ball or somesuch.  When it comes to having D1-level talent, it's a lot like having pro-level talent: you either have it, or you don't.

I remember reading about baseball scouts who could go to high school baseball showcases, with 100 players out on the field showing their stuff.  The scouts commented that they could tell from watching around 30 seconds of a player's action whether he had the stuff to be considered a real prospect, and out of those 100, MAYBE 2-3 players would make that initial cut.  And that's just to be considered a prospect, not a lock to actually make it to the next level.  And I know I've told the story around here about my old law partner whose kids played youth sports with Drew Brees.  It didn't matter if it was blindfolded Albanian Badminton they were playing, Drew was the best athlete on the field.  At everything, always, since he was 5 years old.  No amount of practice or clinics or select ball was going to turn my friend's athletic, skilled kids into Drew Brees.  And Drew's family didn't even let him start playing "select" ball (which everyone else wanted him to do) until late middle school or something like that.  He didn't miss out on any development because he missed several seasons of select ball.  He's got an earned Super Bowl MVP trophy, because he was a god-given great athlete.  That's what it takes.

My son is a good baseball player.  He loves it, played since T-ball.  He's playing now, in an adult rec league overseas, and it makes him happy.  He's one of the better players on a top squad, but he's far from the best.  He gets the experience of being part of a team, meeting folks, travel for games, all the good stuff you want out of sports.  Kids will have a pretty healthy attitude about sports, if their parents will get out of the way.

Tying back to the thread topic: I think the kids are, all-in-all, alright.  It's the adults who are fucky.

And, probably 1.5 at least of those 2-3 "five-tool players" will wash out before making significant money in the bigs.  Ask Billy Beane.

[F250 28674]

6 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Thatguy,

that’s awesome for your daughter.  And surely your must realize how unique she is to be able to attend a quality institution and be able to play high level athletics.  
 

but 95% of sports parents don’t accept that the same opportunity won’t be there for their child.  
 

Every athlete will be told sometime between 18-38 that their time in organized, competitive play is over.  But knowledge and education and the arts last forever.  Seems like you get that you’d be shocked how few other parents do. 

I disagree with your take. Most of those sports parents are concerned their kids will not even make the H.S. varsity squad. Most never make varsity and even at the varsity level it's fairly clear who will and won't make the next transition and the majority of parents get that.

 

[YGIFS 19449]

You're right for the most part, as usual.  I was just venting as per Lobo, because of two conflations.  This is the time of year my friends and colleagues with rising Seniors doing summer leagues start bugging me to get them some in-roads with Belmont to get their kid more highly recruited (spoiler alert, it rarely happens Bob & Karen because your kid has the athleticism of maybe a NAIA bench warmer) and my daughter's myriad leagues were always pretty lax and fun, but her latest volleyball league...it's just that age I guess where the parents/coaches start getting annoying as fuck.   

Old man yells at clouds.  I know.  Different era and all that.  I grew up just outside Chicago and our leagues were competitive and our coaches were assholes for the most part, but we sent a lot of athletes to Big 10 schools but it was nothing compared to the Athletics Machine in our current ISD.  They've got money, the kids have some modicum of talent but mostly genes inherited from tech nerds, but the industry machine just latched on here and convinced all the kids and parents to pour tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of their time into some bullshit to benefit the Athletics Machine that is our High School.  I didn't really see it until just recently /rant

[Thatguy 8492]

On 5/17/2024 at 4:53 PM, Brisketexan said:

And....you just described the perfect case for a kid for whom athletics and a D-1 scholarship may be the perfect path.

I don't think any of us said that the D-1 scholarship path has no place.  Rather, our observation is that the vast majority of folks who focus on that path are 1) making a sub-optimal decision (i.e., spend the money on tutoring and such, which is more likely to pay off for that kid) 2) for the wrong reasons (you want to live through your kid's accomplishments).

 

On 5/17/2024 at 5:23 PM, YGIFS said:

Thatguy,

that’s awesome for your daughter.  And surely your must realize how unique she is to be able to attend a quality institution and be able to play high level athletics.  
 

but 95% of sports parents don’t accept that the same opportunity won’t be there for their child.  
 

Every athlete will be told sometime between 18-38 that their time in organized, competitive play is over.  But knowledge and education and the arts last forever.  Seems like you get that you’d be shocked how few other parents do. 

 

Speaking from my experience with my kid, in this era you have to spend money on your kid just to find out if your kid even has the chops to play at the high school level much less college. Where we live all the kids on the school teams play some sort of club/select/aau ball. My kid barely made the 7th grade b team. Had we just thrown our hands in the air and not kept going with instructions and lessons she wouldn't be where she is.

In volleyball, a parent has to keep a keen eye as to what is going on. Your kid can have talent but be playing out of position and end up getting washed out early. For example, our kid was playing middle blocker when she was 12, but wasn't going to be tall enough to play that position in high school. The club "needed her" to play that position( didn't care that she wasn't right for it long term), but we recognized it wasn't going to be for her and went to another club. She made the top team over there and then the first club saw what she looked like playing her new position and offered her free tuition to come back.

By this time she is playing 15s(freshman in high school) and we can see she has the talent to play in college so we keep going. Despite what you guys are saying, that is the time that parents with kids who don't have the talent to play collegiate sports fall off. The kids start dropping out of the sport, and the 16/17/18s age groups at the club have less teams. Now she is likely a few months from signing a letter and she just turned 16 this month.

I said all that to say this. Had we thrown our hands up in the air at the first sign of difficulty she wouldn't be where she is. Along the way we've seen a lot of kids fall by the wayside who would've been good if they had supportive parents. We have been accused of being THOSE parents, both here and in real life. However, now that she is officially being recruited those accusations look a little stupid. Even if she decided she didn't want to keep going the life lessons she has learned through sports and the travel experiences are something that will stick with her forever.

[Brisketexan 104537]

On 5/19/2024 at 4:01 AM, Thatguy said:

Even if she decided she didn't want to keep going the life lessons she has learned through sports and the travel experiences are something that will stick with her forever.

Ultimately, that's a really important takeaway.  Shit, we paid for private coaching for our son (Wylie Campbell is a great dude, and remains a good friend to us and our son) to improve his game so that he could keep doing something that he really loved.  If that had elevated to the level of "he's good enough to be recruited," cool - there's some payoff.  But even if all it accomplished was "he got to keep doing something he loved, and have great experiences and lessons that will stick with him," it was worthwhile.

There are definitely other reasons to participate in elite level sports, get private coaching, etc., other than "this is an investment to get into college."  So long as those remain true, and "we have to do this so he/she will get recruited" isn't the ONLY reason you're investing that time and money, go for it.

[Samson's Wig 3175]

On 5/17/2024 at 11:29 PM, F250 said:

I disagree with your take. Most of those sports parents are concerned their kids will not even make the H.S. varsity squad. Most never make varsity and even at the varsity level it's fairly clear who will and won't make the next transition and the majority of parents get that.

 

I agree with you, but also think this makes the behavior worse, not justifiable. 

[F250 28674]

28 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

I agree with you, but also think this makes the behavior worse, not justifiable. 

I'm not following. What behavior?