The Kids (Aren't) Alright - World Happiness Report

[Sbbruin 21,825]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

I've seen others mention this but it hasn't been my observation. I have three sons, two were in high school during Covid and the oldest was in college.

All of them dated throughout high school, had an established social group, frequently attended events with friends and in groups of couples.

I remember a conversation I had with a group of my son's friends the summer before his H.S. junior year. They were talking smack about of their friends not hanging out as much anymore because he is always with his girlfriend.

Having experienced this dynamic as a youth, I informed my son and his friends that any of them would choose to spend time with a girlfriend over a bunch of dudes. I told them it's always the first one in the group that gets in a serious relationship that catches all the flack because the rest of you don't know what it's like. A year later they were all coupled up except one kid that they were always trying to setup with someone. It was the same way with my group of friends in the 90s.

As far as social media is concerned, they frequently used it to arrange in person get togethers or stay in contact with friends that moved away.

My guess is that he and his friends are more the exception than the rule when it comes to the impact of Covid and social media on teens.  And I think those that may be a bit more introverted were likely even more severely impacted as the opportunity to develop friendships at a key time in their development was thwarted.

[F250 28,760]

21 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

I have read her book on this issue.  I don't think this book has anything to do with the woke versus non-woke culture wars.

In her own words.

 

Quote

Woke med students are fast becoming Woke E.R. doctors, Woke Psychiatrists and expert witnesses (including expert witnesses in custody hearings). Woke law students will quickly be appointed judges. Woke graduate students will soon guide public health policy and distribute research funds.

[CHIEF 5,075]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The house size thing (I also have a violent reaction to saying we build “homes” and not “houses”) is not just unrealistic consumptionism. Zoning and NIMBY has made it damn near impossible to profitably build smaller.  All those post-War American dream suburbs couldn’t be built in most cases. More “fuck you, I want my house value to go up” mentality. 

As a builder, small homes just aren't profitable. It costs just as much to plumb a 2 1/2 bath 2000 square foot home as a 2 1/2 bath 3200 square foot home. Plumbers charge by the fixture (or hole). Garage doors, lot cost, appliances, etc. are going to cost the same but you have much less square feet to spread the cost across. Spending 6 months driving 15 minutes each way, each day to GC and check on the progress just isn't worth the $10-20k in profit, especially since you have to warranty all of the work.

CHIEF

[Brisketexan 105,041]

6 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

As a builder, small homes just aren't profitable. It costs just as much to plumb a 2 1/2 bath 2000 square foot home as a 2 1/2 bath 3200 square foot home. Plumbers charge by the fixture (or hole). Garage doors, lot cost, appliances, etc. are going to cost the same but you have much less square feet to spread the cost across. Spending 6 months driving 15 minutes each way, each day to GC and check on the progress just isn't worth the $10-20k in profit, especially since you have to warranty all of the work.

CHIEF

All that is certainly true.  Match that up with our "all housing zoning should be for single family only," and you have the resulting housing shitshow.  Imagine building that SAME 3200 sf structure, for the same cost, and same profit per sf.....but it's TWO 1600 sf homes instead of one 3200 sf home.  In most places, you simply can't do that.  It's not allowed.  Whether the consequences of our regulatory scheme are intended or unintended, the consequences are the same.

[Boss Hogg 808]

Young people today are also a lot fatter.  I've never been fat, but it seems like it would be depressing. 

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 2,934]

Just now, Boss Hogg said:

Young people today are also a lot fatter.  I've never been fat, but it seems like it would be depressing. 

Username does not check out.

[YGIFS 19,449]

What the fuck is a 'Woke Doctor'?  

"Or, you're on my side in the culture wars fellow patriot?  Then I'll give you the real medicine!"  

Edited March 20 by YGIFS

[Thetexashammer 1,062]

10 minutes ago, F250 said:

In her own words.

 

Or, instead posting tweets, you could figure out what her actual arguments are and respond to them. She makes valid and thoughtful points. It' pretty hard to criticize an argument with which you have no familiarity.

[utee94 15,797]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

What the fuck is a 'Woke Doctor'?  

[Captainant 27,618]

5 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Or, instead posting tweets, you could figure out what her actual arguments are and respond to them. She makes valid and thoughtful points. It' pretty hard to criticize an argument with which you have no familiarity.

Man you have some wild takes (and I'm happy to cite my sources on that) but this is bullshit. I do not have to study all of nazi ideology to know that it's bullshit and evil. I do not have to study all of her rants about WOKE(!!!!) to know that it's hollow culture war drek. 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

2 hours ago, Helobious said:

There’s 0 whataburgers in the world where a justaburger only costs $1.

 

1 hour ago, F250 said:

Yeah, I believe they removed the Justaburger from the menu years ago and replaced it with the Whataburger Jr. which costs several dollars not $1.

We’ll fuck me, I’m joining the disgruntled yoots.  I used to stop and get 5 or so on road trips. Easy to eat with one hand and cheap af.  This is depressing. 

[Frank Drebin 5,654]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

 

We’ll fuck me, I’m joining the disgruntled yoots.  I used to stop and get 5 or so on road trips. Easy to eat with one hand and cheap af.  This is depressing. 

Fast food is not cheap these days.  Other than occasional Chic Fil A, the cost plus the calories make it really easy to skip for me.

I can literally order a pound of chicken fajitas that comes with sides for pretty close to the cost of Whataburger to feed our family of four.  And with the fajitas, there is usually enough rice, beans, and tortillas left over (and sometimes chicken), where I can get a couple work lunches out of it.

[Helobious 9,459]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

 

We’ll fuck me, I’m joining the disgruntled yoots.  I used to stop and get 5 or so on road trips. Easy to eat with one hand and cheap af.  This is depressing. 

You can still get a justaburger, the meal costs like $5.30 and a justaburger by itself like $3.20 or something maybe. So your road-trip meal would run you over $16 now instead of $5.

[Captainant 27,618]

Just now, Helobious said:

You can still get a justaburger, the meal costs like $5.30 and a justaburger by itself like $3.20 or something maybe. So your road-trip meal would run you over $16 now instead of $5.

But there's no price gouging happening amirite

[Frank Drebin 5,654]

In the USA, parents try way too hard to fend off anything negative or challenging for their kids. They don't want them to get hurt, lose in a sports game or even walk alone to school without a tracker. She talks about mothers of college-aged women tracking their daughter's periods on iphone apps.  Crazy shit. Those "bulldozer parents" are causing serious mental damage to their children instead of keeping them "safe".

One reason she hypothesizes for this change is parents have less kids than they used to.  So they hyperfocus on the ones they did have.  My grandparents had 5 kids.  They could not micromanage their lives.  There was not enough time.

Also, in the book she mentions an instance of a kid's cat dying, and then sending the kid to therapy to "deal with it". She discusses that therapy has been traditionally been seen as a zero downside deal. At best, it might help, at worst, it kinda does nothing. She's challenging that notion that it can have negative side effects. What Shrier harps on in the book is iatrogenesis. Meaning harm brought forth BY the healer. She’s merely suggesting that by introducing therapy or a therapeutic approach to deal with very regular childhood dilemma causes more harm than good.

Our kids are getting more and more therapy than they ever have, and not so coincidentally, they have the worst mental health they’ve ever had. This generation of kids is more anxious and less able to do for themselves than any generation before.

[Farmerted 125]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

I've seen others mention this but it hasn't been my observation. I have three sons, two were in high school during Covid and the oldest was in college.

All of them dated throughout high school, had an established social group, frequently attended events with friends and in groups of couples.

I remember a conversation I had with a group of my son's friends the summer before his H.S. junior year. They were talking smack about of their friends not hanging out as much anymore because he is always with his girlfriend.

Having experienced this dynamic as a youth, I informed my son and his friends that any of them would choose to spend time with a girlfriend over a bunch of dudes. I told them it's always the first one in the group that gets in a serious relationship that catches all the flack because the rest of you don't know what it's like. A year later they were all coupled up except one kid that they were always trying to setup with someone. It was the same way with my group of friends in the 90s.

As far as social media is concerned, they frequently used it to arrange in person get togethers or stay in contact with friends that moved away.

Agree ,my bashing of social media is the addictive nature of “reels” , the “fringe / conspiracy” non credible news sources and “look at how cool I am and how bad your life sucks” influencer component . As for connecting w friends keeping up with friends it’s great . I never had a problem finding the party on a Friday night in HS with out a phone or a pager - I honestly don’t know how we did it . I’m not a Luddite and realize there was bullying , cliques and teen depression well before social media, however the additive component that’s built into them can consume the youth and is olds before we even realize it’s happened. 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

But there's no price gouging happening amirite

Everything should be provided to us for free for existing!!1!1. Billionaires should pay for it all.  I participate in 401k and other investments but will act like I don’t know how they work.  

There, I got your next 10 posts covered.   Saved us all some time, so you can think harder about why nobody here (anywhere) wants to live in a little duplex next to duplex house people and drive shitbox cars and eat cheap food.  

[MissingInAction 25,002]

[Captainant 27,618]

1 minute ago, Frank Drebin said:

In the USA, parents try way too hard to fend off anything negative or challenging for their kids. They don't want them to get hurt, lose in a sports game or even walk alone to school without a tracker. She talks about mothers of college-aged women tracking their daughter's periods on iphone apps.  Crazy shit. Those "bulldozer parents" are causing serious mental damage to their children instead of keeping them "safe".

What an incredible string of extreme anecdotes, artfully woven together to broadly mischaracterize an entire generation of parents and cast them as enemies of the culture war. 

I'm sure those things have actually happened in a handful of singleton instances, but you're getting started early on the drinking if you think that's an honest and realistic representation. 

4 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Our kids are getting more and more therapy than they ever have, and not so coincidentally, they have the worst mental health they’ve ever had. This generation of kids is more anxious and less able to do for themselves than any generation before.

No idea why kids in the country could be so anxious and uncomfortable nowadays. They do school shooting drills every semester, so they have it drilled into them from a young age what to do while the cops don't save them! Why isn't that a source of comfort for them... 

[Cum Rocket 136]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Everything should be provided to us for free for existing!!1!1. Billionaires should pay for it all.  I participate in 401k and other investments but will act like I don’t know how they work.  

There, I got your next 10 posts covered.   Saved us all some time, so you can think harder about why nobody here (anywhere) wants to live in a little duplex next to duplex house people and drive shitbox cars and eat cheap food.  

Lol. Remember basic sustenance should not be a profit center!

 

Let's take the business out of producing mass quantities of food for the population. Maybe even hand the power over to the government. Not a bad idea. Has anyone thought of that before?

[YGIFS 19,449]

1 minute ago, Frank Drebin said:

In the USA, parents try way too hard to fend off anything negative or challenging for their kids. They don't want them to get hurt, lose in a sports game or even walk alone to school without a tracker. She talks about mothers of college-aged women tracking their daughter's periods on iphone apps.  Crazy shit. Those "bulldozer parents" are causing serious mental damage to their children instead of keeping them "safe".

One reason she hypothesizes for this change is parents have less kids than they used to.  So they hyperfocus on the ones they did have.  My grandparents had 5 kids.  They could not micromanage their lives.  There was not enough time.

Also, in the book she mentions an instance of a kid's cat dying, and then sending the kid to therapy to "deal with it". She discusses that therapy has been traditionally been seen as a zero downside deal. At best, it might help, at worst, it kinda does nothing. She's challenging that notion that it can have negative side effects. What Shrier harps on in the book is iatrogenesis. Meaning harm brought forth BY the healer. She’s merely suggesting that by introducing therapy or a therapeutic approach to deal with very regular childhood dilemma causes more harm than good.

Our kids are getting more and more therapy than they ever have, and not so coincidentally, they have the worst mental health they’ve ever had. This generation of kids is more anxious and less able to do for themselves than any generation before.

Yeah, this is something we struggle with in my household.  My oldest does have some legit issues, but my wife adds on more.  But she's just a protective mamma bear.  My wife grew up thinking the oldest had it the toughest and the baby had it the easiest.  Because that was her experience.  She was the oldest of 4 girls and had to help raise the younger three because her mom was busy working and the Dad was a full-time rancher and farmer.  Now she sees that our oldest and her friends that are the oldest have it easier because the parents smother them with attention and protection.  And to your point, the just having less kids thing has a lot do with it.  We simply don't need larger families anymore so each kid gets more attention and there's a lot less intra-sibling 'caregiving', if that makes sense.  

But to be fair to these kids, they are preceded by three generations of fucking assholes in this country.  After my daughter's last volleyball game, they gave out little medals to each team.  And a dad next to me rolled his eyes and said something to the effect of, "Oh great, participation medals.  How are these kids ever gonna learn to deal with adversity?"  And I thought, "Uh, have you ever heard of Real Life?"  There's still plenty of shit that's gonna push them down, especially if they're girls.  It just comes in different forms in different generations.  I also think of my neighbor who pushes his son so damn hard (camps, touring teams, clinics, specialized coaching) into basketball and thinks he can get a scholarship for college playing.  And all parenting advice aside, I have to stop myself from telling him, "Dude, you're 5'9"...your wife and daughters are tiny.  Your son will be lucky to hit 5'10", maybe recalibrate your expectations."  But I just smile and introduce him to people who may be able to help.  

But yeah, one thing that is truly unique to this generation is social media and it's something we still need to get our arms around.  The yelling at clouds/in my day/uphill both ways/these kids today is still a part of my, but we have to come to grips with what's coming because it's already here and it's changing by the day.

[Captainant 27,618]

3 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

You think selling a burger for $1 is a profitable enterprise? The ketchup and slice of cheese alone is probably $.75 in raw material costs.

 

2 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

Lol. Remember basic sustenance should not be a profit center!

 

Let's take the business out of producing mass quantities of food for the population. Maybe even hand the power over to the government. Not a bad idea. Has anyone thought of that before?

Heading off this straw man at the pass: I am not arguing whataburger is "basic sustenance" or that you can sell a burger for $1 and keep a business open. But a $5 meal turning into a $16 meal is bullshit. Prices don't scale geometrically, at least not if you're running your restaurant business like a person with a brain. 

It's wild how much y'all jump to defend profiteering and gouging. Use your fucking eyes dudes. Consumer prices tripling isn't just "input costs going up".

 

But I guess the surly IDW bat signal has gone off, appropriately so with the actual IDW Jordan Peterson invocation lol. 

[Frank Drebin 5,654]

8 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

Lol. Remember basic sustenance should not be a profit center!

 

Let's take the business out of producing mass quantities of food for the population. Maybe even hand the power over to the government. Not a bad idea. Has anyone thought of that before?

Would definitely help solve the obesity crisis in America.

You can't eat or drink double the amount of calories you burn, you won't be as fat.

[F250 28,760]

3 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

 

The guy was literally talking about buying 5 burgers for $5 ($1/piece) for a $5 meal. 

As discussed, those burgers are $3.50 now so it would be a $17.50 meal.

 

[SydneyCarton 48,051]

5 hours ago, Helobious said:

It was definitely damaging but I don’t know how much I buy into the Covid shutdown angle. Half the country was operating pretty close to normal just 2-3 months after March 2020. I mean I can even recall being in crowded restaurants and bars in Seattle of all places in November 2020. I definitely don’t recall everything being shutdown for “a year and a half”. 

That's because you weren't aged 4-18, where the primary social and developmental foundation is done at school, where you learn to socialize with peers and be a human being. Those kids were home for a year and a half, trying to learn on zoom classes every day, and there have been 100 books already written on how fucked those kids are developmentall. As usual, you're completely out of your element, Donnie. 

[InkaUtexas 25,852]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

That's because you weren't aged 4-18, where the primary social and developmental foundation is done at school, where you learn to socialize with peers and be a human being. Those kids were home for a year and a half, trying to learn on zoom classes every day, and there have been 100 books already written on how fucked those kids are developmentall. As usual, you're completely out of your element, Donnie. 

Correct, and it went higher in age than 18. My daughters university was remote for her first year. So she lost 18 months in person. Last Semester of HS and first year of college. And then there was an adjustment getting back into rhythm. So maybe 24 months of dislocation from what was normal. Son was in University already. Lost his Senior year in person. So he sat on his ass and talked to his friends on social media. Next thing I know he is being prescribed aderall vs. being told to go out into nature and do some physical shit.

 

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

That's because you weren't aged 4-18, where the primary social and developmental foundation is done at school, where you learn to socialize with peers and be a human being. Those kids were home for a year and a half, trying to learn on zoom classes every day, and there have been 100 books already written on how fucked those kids are developmentall. As usual, you're completely out of your element, Donnie. 

And based on some of his postings, are we sure he is not in that age group and just pretending?

[Cum Rocket 136]

Just for fun here’s the chart of McDonalds earnings per share over time using it as a simple proxy for fast food prices/business. 

 

Has gone from pre Covid peak of 7.88 to 11.56. A 46% increase. 

CPI cumulative increase in that time is mid to upper 20s I believe. If you count CPI as bulletproof then that's a difference in the upper teens, percentage wise. Is that gouging? Judgment call I guess. If you think cpi underestimates inflation then definitely not. Either way, burgers don't cost $5 to make. 

[Celery Man 20,929]

if $16 for a bag of shitty burgers is good does that mean the boomers were right?

[Cum Rocket 136]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

That's because you weren't aged 4-18, where the primary social and developmental foundation is done at school, where you learn to socialize with peers and be a human being. Those kids were home for a year and a half, trying to learn on zoom classes every day, and there have been 100 books already written on how fucked those kids are developmentall. As usual, you're completely out of your element, Donnie. 

The people that ran covid response fucking wrecked this country. Good thing they're being held to account!

[Foosters 17,819]

6 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

The people that ran covid response fucking wrecked this country. Good thing they're being held to account!

Agreed. Those 91 felony counts will be hard to beat.

[aggie08 21,481]

[SydneyCarton 48,051]

15 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

The people that ran covid response fucking wrecked this country. Good thing they're being held to account!

Lots of people are waiting for Donald Trump to be held to account, for a lot of things, but you're right, some of this does squarely fall on his shoulders.

Oh, not what you meant? That's ok, you can get fucked anyway. 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

22 minutes ago, F250 said:

As discussed, those burgers are $3.50 now so it would be a $17.50 meal.

 

That was also a decade ago. And was making about 25% of current salary.  So seems to be tracking with wages. 

[DaysOff 7,943]

That's because you weren't aged 4-18, where the primary social and developmental foundation is done at school, where you learn to socialize with peers and be a human being. Those kids were home for a year and a half, trying to learn on zoom classes every day, and there have been 100 books already written on how fucked those kids are developmentall. As usual, you're completely out of your element, Donnie. 

They're not fucked; They're just behind. 18 is the new 16, so college freshmen lack some of the skills we took for granted when my mother dropped me in front of Simkins and didn't communicate for a month. They'll catch up eventually, or maybe be fucked.

[YGIFS 19,449]

22 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

Just for fun here’s the chart of McDonalds earnings per share over time using it as a simple proxy for fast food prices/business. 

 

Has gone from pre Covid peak of 7.88 to 11.56. A 46% increase. 

CPI cumulative increase in that time is mid to upper 20s I believe. If you count CPI as bulletproof then that's a difference in the upper teens, percentage wise. Is that gouging? Judgment call I guess. If you think cpi underestimates inflation then definitely not. Either way, burgers don't cost $5 to make. 

No CR, but that massive dip in late 2017, wasn't Trump's fault.  It was because they refused to bring back the McRib so me and Brisket organized a nationwide boycott.  

20 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

The people that ran covid response fucking wrecked this country. Good thing they're being held to account!

Remind me who ran the Executive Branch from December 2019 to January 2021 when the virus ran rampant and the response was turbo-fucked again you fucking Combo Four Fucking Failure?  

[Cum Rocket 136]

17 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Agreed. Those 91 felony counts will be hard to beat.

 

8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Lots of people are waiting for Donald Trump to be held to account, for a lot of things, but you're right, some of this does squarely fall on his shoulders.

Oh, not what you meant? That's ok, you can get fucked anyway. 

 

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

No CR, but that massive dip in late 2017, wasn't Trump's fault.  It was because they refused to bring back the McRib so me and Brisket organized a nationwide boycott.  

Remind me who ran the Executive Branch from December 2019 to January 2021 when the virus ran rampant and the response was turbo-fucked again you fucking Combo Four Fucking Failure?  

Oh he was definitely part of the problem and I include him. But way to jump to conclusions guys. Good job. 

[MissingInAction 25,002]

Just reading "McRib" gives me the sharts.

[YGIFS 19,449]

4 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

 

 

Oh he was definitely part of the problem and I include him. But way to jump to conclusions guys. Good job. 

 

4 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

 

 

Oh he was definitely part of the problem and I include him. But way to jump to conclusions guys. Good job. 

Sorry about the namecalling, I'm just trying to use more situational alliteration.  Supposed to be good for the brain and staving off mental illness (too late, I know).  

But I wouldn't say I was "jumping to conclusions" simply by citing who was in charge of the situation during its most critical time period (the first 13 months).  That's just factual history.  I don't want to spoiler alert it for you and don't want to drag politics into it but you mentioned the "government's response" to the pandemic.  They created a "Task Force" to combat it.  And the head of it wasn't woke scientists, it was Mike Pence.  I don't know if you remember that part.  But Mikey got "hung" up on the legality of it all.  

[utee94 15,797]

Far be it from me to dissuade a good president-bashing, but municipal and state response had far more to do with how long kids stayed out of school, and when they returned, and how things were managed in-between, than anything at the Federal level.

[Celery Man 20,929]

Maybe we should dive into that in this thread.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,669]

2 hours ago, CHIEF said:

Plumbers charge by the fixture (or hole).

cc: @South Austin's mom.

[YGIFS 19,449]

14 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Far be it from me to dissuade a good president-bashing, but municipal and state response had far more to do with how long kids stayed out of school, and when they returned, and how things were managed in-between, than anything at the Federal level.

That's fair, but people do like to blame the CDC/NIH for what young kids went through/are still going through.  Good, bad, or indifferent---no CR---but they continue to be an oft-cited fallguy for this stuff and they are technically federal agencies.  There's plenty of monday morning quarterbacking in this thread on Covid but the approaches were made on the fly and we can get into the sub-populations that probably spread this thing more than it needed to be.  But looking back, the disconcert of approaches from muni to muni, ISD to ISD, city to city, county to county, state to state just looks worse and worse in hindsight.  My daughter missed 3/4 of a year in in-person instruction but thankfully my wife created a physical classroom in our garage for 4 kids to do remote learning and she picked up the gaps given her training in schools.  She even got us actual school desks and an old-school clock and those goofy plastic chairs we all remember from Elementary School.  But there were other kids who were back in the classroom in a matter of weeks and still others, it was 2 years.  Everyone's mileage may vary, especially the kids.  Our youngest is our Covid-19 baby.  She's only ever known a world of this pandemic.  She was 11 months old when quarantine set in, pulled her out of day care, and while she's doing great at pre-school and playdates...maybe it's for the best since she didn't know life before it.  

But my point is we continue to hand-wringing on how this place did this and that place did that.  We were too busy thinking of rural v. urban, remote v. in-person, blue v. red, masks v. no masks, won't somebody think of the children, etc.  All the while ignoring the elephant in the room---the virus didn't care about municipalities and classroom mental health.  We were too busy thinking of our own bullshit and forgot it simply wanted to spread and mutate.  I think in hindsight we took a moderate approach with our oldest.  She definitely has some setbacks from spending almost a year coop'd up inside with her anal-retentive parents.  She's doing so much better now.  But I know we'll continue to unpack what this has all meant for the meant for the mental well-being of kids that were 4-14 when Pandemic hit for decades.  

[Blotto 23,484]

8 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

cc: @South Austin's mom.

She seems to favor the Wendy's Super Bar approach. A flat price all you can stomach

[utee94 15,797]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

That's fair, but people do like to blame the CDC/NIH for what young kids went through/are still going through.  Good, bad, or indifferent---no CR---but they continue to be an oft-cited fallguy for this stuff and they are technically federal agencies.  There's plenty of monday morning quarterbacking in this thread on Covid but the approaches were made on the fly and we can get into the sub-populations that probably spread this thing more than it needed to be.  But looking back, the disconcert of approaches from muni to muni, ISD to ISD, city to city, county to county, state to state just looks worse and worse in hindsight.  My daughter missed 3/4 of a year in in-person instruction but thankfully my wife created a physical classroom in our garage for 4 kids to do remote learning and she picked up the gaps given her training in schools.  She even got us actual school desks and an old-school clock and those goofy plastic chairs we all remember from Elementary School.  But there were other kids who were back in the classroom in a matter of weeks and still others, it was 2 years.  Everyone's mileage may vary, especially the kids.  Our youngest is our Covid-19 baby.  She's only ever known a world of this pandemic.  She was 11 months old when quarantine set in, pulled her out of day care, and while she's doing great at pre-school and playdates...maybe it's for the best since she didn't know life before it.  

But my point is we continue to hand-wringing on how this place did this and that place did that.  We were too busy thinking of rural v. urban, remote v. in-person, blue v. red, masks v. no masks, won't somebody think of the children, etc.  All the while ignoring the elephant in the room---the virus didn't care about municipalities and classroom mental health.  We were too busy thinking of our own bullshit and forgot it simply wanted to spread and mutate.  I think in hindsight we took a moderate approach with our oldest.  She definitely has some setbacks from spending almost a year coop'd up inside with her anal-retentive parents.  She's doing so much better now.  But I know we'll continue to unpack what this has all meant for the meant for the mental well-being of kids that were 4-14 when Pandemic hit for decades.  

I'm not making any value judgment on the various responses by local/county/state actors, I'm just pointing out that THOSE are the appropriate levels of government to consider, when discussing the length of time any particular group of students stayed out of full in-person schooling.  THOSE were the people making the decisions.  Not the president, not the CDC, not Congress.  I'm keeping all of my commentary strictly within the context of this thread, which is "Kids' happiness" and not other issues related to the pandemic and any entities' responses to it.

In Leander ISD, my kids were only out from mid-March 2020 thru mid-September 2020.  It wasn't two years, it wasn't 18 months, it wasn't even one year, it was only 6 months.

However, that 6 months made an incredible impact to my then-6th-grade daughter.  I saw her turn from a bright, cheerful, outgoing, deeply happy child who excelled in all of her classes and never once thought about NOT turning in an assignment on time, into a withdrawn, timid, introverted, morose, ghost of a teenager who lost track of all sense of responsibility and normalcy.  It took her almost two years to re-form good school habits and re-engage with her friends.  She's now thriving, a straight A+ student with tons of friends and tons of activities, but even those 6 months set her back potentially years.  

So people who are debating the 6 months versus 2 years or whatever, are completely missing the point.  It's much less amount the DURATION of the event and more about the total psychological trauma induced by the event itself. 

 

 

 

[YGIFS 19,449]

Gotcha.  I know there's been some comparative research done but I wouldn't even how to go about finding it, let alone understanding it.  On how this recent period for children compares to periods of equal mental stress (not necessarily fear of disease obviously) from eras like the Great Depression, WWII, Cuban Missile Crisis, 9/11, et. al.  Kids certainly socialized during those times as coping mechanisms and school pretty much went on unencumbered, but kids lived under an equal, or even greater, shadow of fear as they did during Covid-19 (durations obviously vary from weeks to years depending on the crisis).  There are generational differences obviously-no social media for those crisis, a societal norm to internalize mental angst and depression, etc.  But I'd be very interested to read about the parallels between those nationwide crises and the one we just came out of in terms of what it did/does to children.  

I think of two anecdotes with my daughter earlier this week.  She was talking about a girl cyber-bullying another girl in her class at night.  And she asked me about bullying when I was growing up.  And I had to be honest with her.  Once we got to about 4th or 5th grade, we beat the crap out of one another behind school and that was that.  We moved on.  We had to look in each other in the eye and say what we wanted to say and fight if necessary.  But we moved on.  Now it can go on and on anonymously and get much darker, real quick.  And then she asked what it was like when my dad was young.  I said, "His first childhood memory was watching a newsreel of the U.S. dropping two atomic bombs on Japan when he was about 3.  He got into a lot of fights, took up smoking (didn't tell her about the alcohol usage), was a bit of a rebel, joined the Navy at the outset of Vietnam, and got into boxing and wrestling along the way.  We never talked about how we were feeling or depression.  I don't want these internal struggles to consume you so we don't need to spend all our effort and time focusing on them but I don't want us to go down the path we did as a family when he and I were growing up.  There's gotta be a healthier balance.  Try your best, and then try again, to fix what's bothering you.  If you get frustrated, that means you're making progress.  If it really is impossible, we will help you.  Don't end up like the people before you.  We're all works in progress.  And if that boy Nicholas gets any creepier around you, tell me his last name and you can watch me make his father shit his pants on his front porch when I tell him who I really work for."  

She ended up sleeping a solid 10 hours that night which is really good for her.  

[UpperWestside 6,159]

8 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

This is entirely on the individual. No one can force you to be satisfied you aren’t rich/successful/whatever goal you’ve set except yourself.    Trying to place blame on you tubers or govt or whatever is just scapegoating.  This is an individual problem. 

I spend a decent amount of time listening to younger folks vent about their issues in life. I do think that these social media outlets are a net negative on them because so many of these folks watch this stuff and think that it is something to strive for. Cognitively they cannot yet comprehend that there is peace and joy in just being content. Some of that comes with age, but some also comes from not being as exposed to these social media loops constantly. 
 

Also I think people could stand to put down their electronics for awhile and just go out and experience life, especially if it can be in a place where you can take in nature.

[Nivek 16,916]

2 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

Would definitely help solve the obesity crisis in America.

You can't eat or drink double the amount of calories you burn, you won't be as fat.

Or if companies were held liable for making and pushing addictive products, they wouldn't be so quick to push them out their either.  

[Captainant 27,618]

20 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I spend a decent amount of time listening to younger folks vent about their issues in life. I do think that these social media outlets are a net negative on them because so many of these folks watch this stuff and think that it is something to strive for. Cognitively they cannot yet comprehend that there is peace and joy in just being content. Some of that comes with age, but some also comes from not being as exposed to these social media loops constantly. 
 

Also I think people could stand to put down their electronics for awhile and just go out and experience life, especially if it can be in a place where you can take in nature.

A large portion of that is that there's nowhere else for them to go but online. The third place is dead. 

But also, this whole thing is much larger than one singularly addressable ill. It's not something where just putting the phone down fixes everything else 

[Celery Man 20,929]

Also, while they were fucked up particularly and specifically by covid and while social media isn’t helping, the things that make them despair about the present and future are real and worthy of despair.

[Frank Drebin 5,654]

57 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Also, while they were fucked up particularly and specifically by covid and while social media isn’t helping, the things that make them despair about the present and future are real and worthy of despair.

There have always been and always will be plenty of bad things to worry about.  Prior couple generations to me had the great depression, dust bowl, world war, literal starvation, civil rights and racial strife, nuclear war drills, polio, possibility of getting drafted and sent to ‘Nam, etc.