Greatest drummer of all time?

[ztejas 43419]

I think this is a fun convo that doesn't get brought up a lot. I was listening to "Who's Next" and the way that Moon comes in on this song made me wonder if he's potentially the best to ever do it. 

I guess I'll submit him as my GOAT - who do y'all have and what tracks support it?

Edited March 28 by ztejas
Fixed broken link

[Pato del Muerto 52490]

Not going to offer up a selection, but I love the story that ringo had Keith teach his son to play. 

[Rimbo 25921]

If there were but a single metric by which a drummer could be judged, and a defined way by which they could be measured along that metric, then I could possibly come up with a single drummer who met that criteria, if I also could measure that metric against all drummers.

But there are so many ways a drummer can be good or bad that just picking one drummer is impossible.

 

 

The Purdie Shuffle is iconic; Bernard Purdie should be on any list.

 

 

You knew he was going onto this list. "Still hard to play after all these years."

 

 

It sounds simple, until you try to play it. Copeland and Peart both had tremendous respect for each other, but couldn't be more different. Peart had a gazillion pieces in his kit; Copeland kept his simple. Peart tried to play everything the same way each time in the studio; Copeland never wanted to play it the same way twice.

 

 

Purdie has his shuffle; the Van Halen brothers had theirs, bringing dance-hall rhythms to heavy metal. And the brothers were so tight together.

 

 

Bonham just hit those drums so hard, he was a force of nature.

 

 

Tim Alexander playing in 11/8 time.

[Rimbo 25921]

 

 

And can we talk about Phil Collins' drumming, please? Or just listen to this. It would be metronomic, except he does it with amazing feel, and varies it each time just a little.

[Pato del Muerto 52490]

You didn’t even mention ginger baker. 
 

I will admit that I prefer bonham’s style.  And his time changes on lemon song still fuck with me. 

[Rimbo 25921]

"While we all have lots of bands who influence still / we all rip off Meshuggah"

[Rimbo 25921]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

You didn’t even mention ginger baker. 

 

 

Right?

There's just so many great drummers, it's unfair to choose one. And I'm leaving 'em out left and right.

[83Horn 1640]

I second the motion for Ginger Baker:

And I'll leave a couple others for your consideration:

Mitch Mitchell:

Harvey Mason:

 

[Pato del Muerto 52490]

5 minutes ago, 83Horn said:

Mitch Mitchell:

Brief run with the dirty Mac and that was a pretty good ensemble

Spoiler

 

Edited March 24 by Pato del Muerto

[jimmyjazz 45909]

Based on responses, I assume we're talking about rock drummers.  For me, the gold standard is Bonham.  The thing that made him great wasn't his power, it was his groove.  It rarely gets mentioned.  His playing had a massive pocket.

[Pato del Muerto 52490]

I agree, and also your mom had a massive pocket

[Gil Bang 25948]

The answer is Ringo.  The answer has always been Ringo.   Every fucking thing he did was perfect for the song.

 

Listen to this motherfucking hi-hat.   No other drummer on earth would have the imagination to put it RIGHT THERE WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE

 

 

 

a lot of assholes hit the drums hard, like Moon and Bonham.  Ringo does it perfectly, every single time.

[Handcruser 2805]

There is no greatest drummer. They are all different - there is no single metric you can judge everyone by.

In regards to fucking Ringo - there is zero doubt that almost every other drummer on the planet could play what he played - but none of them could play it like he played it. He was fucking Uber creative and was a perfect fit for that band at that time. It was magic.

He could not play anything for Rush or LZ - disregard the part about playing it like Peart or Bonham played it. Can you see him playing those 16note triplets coming out of the samba on fool in the rain? Lolz.

Pearts my favorite technical drummer
Bonham is my favorite overall

Neither of them are the best. If that title went to anyone I’m not sure who it would be. You could make a case for Buddy.

[Gil Bang 25948]

Ask the "greats" who's their favorite drummer.  Most will say Ringo. 

 

But yeah, fit is really important.  Weinberg is a great fit for the E Street Band.   If he weren't, Bruce probably would  have found somebody else in the last 40 years.

[Handcruser 2805]

Ask the "greats" who's their favorite drummer.  Most will say Ringo. 
 
But yeah, fit is really important.  Weinberg is a great fit for the E Street Band.   If he weren't, Bruce probably would  have found somebody else in the last 40 years.

Favorite is not greatest. But I agree many of them say that.

I love Larry Mullen jr’s drumming. But he ain’t “great”.

So many good ones that nobody knows of.

Terry bozio is considered great and I wouldn’t spend 5 minutes watching him play.

[Rimbo 25921]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Based on responses, I assume we're talking about rock drummers.  For me, the gold standard is Bonham.  The thing that made him great wasn't his power, it was his groove.  It rarely gets mentioned.  His playing had a massive pocket.

I just favor rock drummers because that's what I know best.

on that note, Roger Taylor of Duran Duran is what I consider the best use of a hi hat ever.

[jimmyjazz 45909]

Just now, Rimbo said:

on that note, Roger Taylor of Duran Duran is what I consider the best use of a hi hat ever.

Better than Copeland?  Your honor, I object.

[Rimbo 25921]

6 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Terry bozio is considered great and I wouldn’t spend 5 minutes watching him play.

hey now...

(woo! lookit that, did he nearly run you down... sorry, I did say i liked Duran Duran)

Bozio was great with Vai and Devin Townsend.

[Rimbo 25921]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Better than Copeland?  Your honor, I object.

Hey, I qualified everything above (and even threw in Walking on your Mom there, which is absolutely among the best hi hat lines ever). This is just a personal preference thing; something about Taylor just brings out the best in Duran Duran's songs to me.

You also get a lot more of Copeland in a trio than Taylor in a quintet; it's a smaller role to fill...

[jimmyjazz 45909]

2 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Walking on your Mom

Hey, leave my mom out of it.  (And now I will never hear that song the same way again.)

[Gil Bang 25948]

20 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Favorite is not greatest. But I agree many of them say that.

I love Larry Mullen jr’s drumming. But he ain’t “great”.

So many good ones that nobody knows of.

Terry bozio is considered great and I wouldn’t spend 5 minutes watching him play.

I've seen Dale Bozzio's gash.    "Penthouse" IIRC

[Handcruser 2805]

I've seen Dale Bozzio's gash.    "Penthouse" IIRC

lol

[Pato del Muerto 52490]

Isn’t jeff porcaro considered a great drummer too?

 

Spoiler

 

[jimmyjazz 45909]

I think there are all kinds of great drummers.  I think Jimmy Chamberlin and Taylor Hawkins were as good as any, and Dave Grohl is in that conversation too.  But I also love Jim Eno of Spoon, although he's a friend so I always figured I might have a bit of a bias.  Kenny Aronoff is an absolute hero of mine.  Steve Gadd might be the best.  Steve Smith was an underutilized monster in Journey.  Charlie and Ringo?  Icons.  Moon?  Great, although messy, the Jimmy Page of drummers.  Peart was a metronome, not much soul, but holy smokes the chops.

Tons of great drummers out there.  I think it kinda matters what kind of music you prefer and what you value most -- timing, pocket, taste, fills, etc.

And then there are the jazz guys, who step all over most rock drummers.

[Rimbo 25921]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Isn’t jeff porcaro considered a great drummer too?

 

that's because he is

[jimmyjazz 45909]

Just now, Rimbo said:

that's because he is

His lift of the Purdie shuffle on "Rosanna" is iconic.  Monster.

[Rimbo 25921]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

And then there are the jazz guys, who step all over most rock drummers.

this is also true

 

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

His lift of the Purdie shuffle on "Rosanna" is iconic.  Monster.

I mean, that's what made all of Toto so great -- the ability to do or lift any style, and nail it on the second take.

[Gil Bang 25948]

fuck Toto.  

When I worked at Dino's pizza, our fucking juke box was either stuck on "Hurts so Good" or "Roseanna" and played both several times a night.

 

Fuck Toto

[Pato del Muerto 52490]

Just now, Gil Bang said:

fuck Toto.  

When I worked at Dino's pizza, our fucking juke box was either stuck on "Hurts so Good" or "Roseanna" and played both several times a night.

 

Fuck Toto

Sometimes love don’t feel like it should, gil

[ajax 2611]

18 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

And then there are the jazz guys, who step all over most rock drummers.

I got to witness Elvin Jones's final performance. He was pretty awesome.

[ClubWhatever 12137]

Matthew McConaughey

[DoobieWah 1436]

8 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

And then there are the jazz guys, who step all over most rock drummers.

My first thoughts based on the thread title were Bonham and Moon because I like rock. Back in the day I had a fling with progressive jazz and I hafta tell you, Billy Cobham and Tony Williams were incredible. 

I saw both live.  I caught Tony Williams at Liberty Hall close to downtown Houston in '77 or '78. The man worked it that night. Eric Johnson opened. I'd say that was a cool show but we were in the front row of the balcony and it was hot. 

[ohchaucer 1443]

I won’t wade too deep on the previous conversation because I’m a little late and there’s a lot of merit in any of the answers above. But if we are just talking favorites (which I think is the only really fair way to discuss this topic), for me:

- Gadd
- Purdie
- Porcaro
- Manu Katche
- David King
- Chamberlain
- Copeland
- Chester Thompson
- Vinny

Bonham, Ringo and Moon all had profound impacts on the evolution of rock and had unbelievable individual creativity. As a drummer, I draw from them as musicians and stylists but not as technicians.

Bozzio and Peart, et al. are impressive but every high school band has some dude in his basement who can replicate them; and l, more importantly, their inventiveness ceiling is directly correlated to the proficiency and creativity of their songwriters/bands, whereas the guys listed above help CREATE the sound of their bands and recordings.

[honolulu horn 6158]

2 hours ago, ohchaucer said:

Bonham, Ringo and Moon all had profound impacts on the evolution of rock and had unbelievable individual creativity. As a drummer, I draw from them as musicians and stylists but not as technicians.

Bozzio and Peart, et al. are impressive but every high school band has some dude in his basement who can replicate them; and l, more importantly, their inventiveness ceiling is directly correlated to the proficiency and creativity of their songwriters/bands, whereas the guys listed above help CREATE the sound of their bands and recordings.

I agree with this the most. When a drummer is impossible to disentangle from their band, when they have left a mark on the creation of the band's songs such that the band could never sound the same without them, to me that's what makes a truly great drummer. Totally different genre, but I would put Dave Lombardo on that list. His stuff is integral to their songs, just woven in. The proof to me is that any other drummers Slayer has played with haven't sounded right, and yet when Lombardo unexpectedly sat in with Metallica all of a sudden they sounded good again. 

His live drumming is just so incredible. Having perfect timing on drumming this complex and heavy for 2+ hours is insanity. That double bass at 1:05, holy shit:

 

[83Horn 1640]

16 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Based on responses, I assume we're talking about rock drummers.  For me, the gold standard is Bonham.  The thing that made him great wasn't his power, it was his groove.  It rarely gets mentioned.  His playing had a massive pocket.

I don't think anyone wanted to call Ginger Baker a rock drummer to his face.  He stated publicly many times that he hated rock.  I once attended a seminar where someone asked him about this, and he said that if he had known in 1966 that he, and Cream, would be thought of as the spark that begat heavy metal, he would go back in time and abort the whole thing.  He considered himself a jazz drummer stuck in a rock world.  Although perhaps not as adamant about it, Mitch Mitchell also felt the same way about rock, and considered himself a jazz drummer first.

[Not that Bob 735]

Being a metronome is not a bad thing. Bands tend to speed up during songs and if a drummer can have them end at the same tempo that they started with, I would say that is a good drummer. Friend of mine used to say "Swallowed a clock". Charlie Watts was not a flashy drummer, but he kept the rest of the band on the same tempo. In some ways he "made" the Rolling Stones. Ringo, too. I like Frank Beard a lot. Some unique riffs that are integral to the song, more than just a straight ahead 4/4.

[Pato del Muerto 52490]

1 minute ago, Not that Bob said:

clock". Charlie Watts was not a flashy drummer, but he kept the rest of the band on the same tempo

Except for honky tonk woman

[Rimbo 25921]

17 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

Matthew McConaughey

[Rimbo 25921]

5 hours ago, honolulu horn said:

Totally different genre, but I would put Dave Lombardo on that list. His stuff is integral to their songs, just woven in. The proof to me is that any other drummers Slayer has played with haven't sounded right, and yet when Lombardo unexpectedly sat in with Metallica all of a sudden they sounded good again.

Man, this reminded me that I was going to say Scott Travis. I mean, Priest were already big time before Painkiller, but I really feel like he elevated them to an even better band. Wonder what they'd have been like in the 90s if Halford hadn't accidentally left the band.

[ohchaucer 1443]

5 hours ago, Not that Bob said:

Being a metronome is not a bad thing. Bands tend to speed up during songs and if a drummer can have them end at the same tempo that they started with, I would say that is a good drummer. Friend of mine used to say "Swallowed a clock". Charlie Watts was not a flashy drummer, but he kept the rest of the band on the same tempo. In some ways he "made" the Rolling Stones. Ringo, too. I like Frank Beard a lot. Some unique riffs that are integral to the song, more than just a straight ahead 4/4.

Watts was another guy whose heart was in jazz. You hear it even more in later albums. Honky Tonk Women was a great example of tempo adjusting to feel. Mushy funk to R&B with a country/soul feel and back again. 
 

And while I’m at the ol’ typewriter, a note on Phil Collins. Although it’s no longer considered witty or a provocation to talk about how great a drummer he was - and I say was because he was literally crippled because of his drumming setup - I advocate that he was one of the more significantly impactful artists of modern pop and rock music. Unbelievable as a singer, genre bending as a writer (or co-writer), and a drummer that helped smooth the transition between prog rock to prog pop to MTV pop.  I’d put him up there with Prince in terms of influence on overall importance during their active decades. 

[Incredulity 11668]

Lars is signing contracts on every poster on this thread.

Spoiler

That is to say Lars thinks highly of himself 

Bonham him nothing hard.  

[Rip76 4925]

As a guitarist (always wanting to be a rhythm section guy), I love this topic.

I do love the studio drummers:   Keltner, Jim Gordon, Blaine, Porcaro, Aronoff, Jackson, Kunkel, Dunbar, etc.....

Now my favorites... of course Peart, Copeland, Bruford, & Bonham are just in my favorite bands.   Below are just a few videos that I just love from a drumming standpoint.

Larnell Lewis - Snarky Puppy

 

Always loved Kenny Jones...

 

But, Buddy Rich probably takes it.

 

 

[Earl Haffler 590]

Palmer

 

[Handcruser 2805]

Watts was another guy whose heart was in jazz. You hear it even more in later albums. Honky Tonk Women was a great example of tempo adjusting to feel. Mushy funk to R&B with a country/soul feel and back again. 
 
And while I’m at the ol’ typewriter, a note on Phil Collins. Although it’s no longer considered witty or a provocation to talk about how great a drummer he was - and I say was because he was literally crippled because of his drumming setup - I advocate that he was one of the more significantly impactful artists of modern pop and rock music. Unbelievable as a singer, genre bending as a writer (or co-writer), and a drummer that helped smooth the transition between prog rock to prog pop to MTV pop.  I’d put him up there with Prince in terms of influence on overall importance during their active decades. 

Massive influence Phil was.

Remember when he tried to back LZ and it was a fucking mess? Still, that dude is up there by some metrics.

[Handcruser 2805]

That el estepario dude has chops like nobody. I mean nobody. I do t know if there is another dude on the planet that can play his stuff.

And I hate it.

Dennis chambers is incredible. So many dudes.

[ohchaucer 1443]

7 minutes ago, Earl Haffler said:

Palmer

 

 

1 hour ago, Rip76 said:

As a guitarist (always wanting to be a rhythm section guy), I love this topic.

I do love the studio drummers:   Keltner, Jim Gordon, Blaine, Porcaro, Aronoff, Jackson, Kunkel, Dunbar, etc.....

Now my favorites... of course Peart, Copeland, Bruford, & Bonham are just in my favorite bands.   Below are just a few videos that I just love from a drumming standpoint.

Larnell Lewis - Snarky Puppy

 

Always loved Kenny Jones...

 

But, Buddy Rich probably takes it.

 

 

Kunkel raises a whole other class of studio drummer. Just solid and full proof. Aronoff, Weckl…. Legends of a different kind. Good call.  And a final thought…. Buddy Rich changed the whole game WAY pre-rock and roll and was a masterful player of rudiments, but he topped out a by-gone era versus ushering in a new one.  He was the ultimate show-off without a lot to show for it in his time…. But he showed a lotta kids at the time that their time was coming. Enter Bonham, Moon, Bissonette, Weckl, etc. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12460]

Until you've done it in front of a big band you're only wanking around!

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah blah blah. Probably Buddy Rich. No argument against that.

Not saying he’s the best but Bill Kreutzmann is special. Essential to the core four of the band. Don’t care if you don’t get it. This is a pretty good testament and the film cuts into the depth of a Playin’ jam.

That was a one-of-a-kind rhythm section. Just thought I’d share. The whole movie is worth watching.

 

[YGIFS 19450]

Almost a full page and nobody has acknowledged the prowess of Bill Bruford.  Yes, most of their music is forgettable but he rebooted most of what we know about modern drumming.  

There are a hundred of delta blues and jazz drummers that we'll never know the names of who have their footprints all over the music we know and love to boot. 

But I gotta say-there was nobody, ever.  And I've learned it all and even played some of it.  There was simply nothing like John Bonham on the kit.  How he came to be on the skins is still a myth.  There's capturing lightning in a bottle and then there's John Bonham.  They captured Thunder in a Shell.  

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:36 PM, Handcruser said:

Terry bozio is considered great and I wouldn’t spend 5 minutes watching him play.

Note to self: pay no attention to Handcruser.

On 3/24/2024 at 9:24 AM, ohchaucer said:

Bozzio and Peart, et al. are impressive but every high school band has some dude in his basement who can replicate them

ohchaucer too. Because there are so many Neil Pearts running around with all that metronomic precision. Yeah, he mostly didn’t swing, but he’s a lot more inimitable than, say, David Gilmour who’s revered around here like I didn’t have a college roommate who could duplicate his guitar solo from Comfortably Numb note-for-note. Puh-lease.

Here’s nearly 10 very watchable minutes of Bozzio with the added bonus of two better guitarists than David Gilmour:

And in case you were wondering, here’s Punky: