Baltimore Bridge Disaster

SamsCorner · March 26

16 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster

https://tulsaports.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McClellan–Kerr_Arkansas_River_Navigation_System

RPM · March 26

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

Maybe we’ll get a new national anthem out of it.

Oh say can you see

that big fucking bridge

it's over a mile long

and right in front of you.

Lat22 · March 26

Those power outages on the ship are going to be a main cause.

tokamak · March 26

1 hour ago, Steel Shank said:

Do they have harbor captains there?

Two pilots on board at the time of collision, per news reports.

troph · March 26

29 minutes ago, Hate said:

As someone that drives over the Crescent City connection bridge quite a bit, these kinds of scenarios pop up in my mind. This will not help that at all. Prayers for those victims and their families.

Get a tool to break your glass windows. Besides impact the next risk issue is electrical malfunction when trying to escape. You have almost no time to get your windows rolled down. It’s almost impossible to break glass manually and it is impossible to open the doors when submerged.

Edited March 26 by troph

ztejas · March 26

38 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster

https://tulsaports.com/

I was joking. I am aware there are rivers in Oklahoma.

I would actually say that one and the S Padre one were more similar as they were similar ships resulting in just a section or two collapsing.

A container ship taking out an entire suspension bridge is more wild.

TonyTexas · March 26

10 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Two pilots on board at the time of collision, per news reports.

When are tugboats normally required for harbor navigation?

Edited March 26 by TonyTexas

G650 · March 26

55 minutes ago, SamsCorner said:

And I-40 in Oklahoma, killed 14.

I was actually on I-40 when that happened, about an hour up the road.

Rip76 · March 26

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Exactly what happened to the south padre bridge in 2001

Oddly enough, me and my cousin (who lives on SPI), were talking about the SPI bridge collapse.

Yesterday 😳

bernorange · March 26

Exxon Valdez captain upon hearing the newss:

MissingInAction · March 26

Just remember when going over the massive toll road bridges in Central Texas that aggies designed them.

Or don't, it's best that you dont.

markstanco · March 26

For those that dont go there, that is a major artery going around the city, ala 610 in Houston or 635 in Dallas. Now people are going to have to travel through downtown area or go way up North to go through.

Deej · March 26

Were there Mothman sightings beforehand?

Edited March 26 by Deej

Brisketexan · March 26

1 hour ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

First thing I thought of. Shit, T-Bub's Jon boat might knock that one down.

Yeah.....whenever possible, I intentionally speed like a mofo over that bridge. 45 seconds on it is better than 60 seconds on it.

markstanco · March 26

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah.....whenever possible, I intentionally speed like a mofo over that bridge. 45 seconds on it is better than 60 seconds on it.

Until you have a blowout, and you flip over the bridge to a fiery death.

Brisketexan · March 26

2 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Until you have a blowout, and you flip over the bridge to a fiery death.

I trust my tire maintenance over Lousiana bridge maintenance. 100% of the time.

BamaATL · March 26

50 minutes ago, markstanco said:

For those that dont go there, that is a major artery going around the city, ala 610 in Houston or 635 in Dallas. Now people are going to have to travel through downtown area or go way up North to go through.

No worries, me and my guys will have that thing up an running in a couple of weeks, and by a couple of weeks, I mean about 400 and just a few billion dollars.

In all seriousness, that's pretty awful, though I have to admit I'm surprised we don't get more of this. Between failing infrastructure and just weird shit, its a chaotic world.

tokamak · March 26

50 minutes ago, markstanco said:

For those that dont go there, that is a major artery going around the city, ala 610 in Houston or 635 in Dallas. Now people are going to have to travel through downtown area or go way up North to go through.

Yeah, obviously first thought it with the lives lost. But beyond that, this seems like it is going to fuck up the Baltimore area pretty good, and for quite a while. I assume the port is completely closed until the debris can be cleared, which will take what, weeks? Rebuilding the bridge will take years. Looking at Google Maps, just across the bridge are a bunch of warehouses and distribution centers - Amazon, Fedex, Home Depot, looks like a big VW entry point. A lot of economically important traffic must flow over this bridge every single day.

Nice Guy Eddie · March 26

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

When are tugboats normally required for harbor navigation?

Turning or docking activities?

Probably very cost ineffective to have tug boats on the standby when ships are underway. At least cost ineffective until they take down an entire bridge.

CoTex · March 26

As someone who has been on the bridge of a large vessel during docking maneuvers, I thought I would share a little about how it works.

1. The guy steering the boat isn't the captain. Some low level dude.

2. He's not holding a large wheel like Jack Sparrow. It's probably a knob on a panel.

3. Captain and pilot are standing nearby drinking coffee.

4. If they lost steerage, or power, this unfolded slowly and there was little they could do.

Edited March 26 by CoTex

conVINCEd · March 26

1 minute ago, CoTex said:

As someone who has been on the bridge of a large vessel during docking maneuvers, I thought I would share a little about how it works.

1.

That was very helpful.

Trey3216 · March 26

1 hour ago, troph said:

Get a tool to break your glass windows. Besides impact the next risk issue is electrical malfunction when trying to escape. You have almost no time to get your windows rolled down. It’s almost impossible to break glass manually and it is impossible to open the doors when submerged.

Yep. I have a glass break tool in both mine and my wife's vehicles. Sounds silly, but especially after having kids, this is pure nightmare fuel that I think of everytime I cross a bridge with more than decent span.

Brisketexan · March 26

Just now, CoTex said:

As someone who has been on the bridge of a large vessel during docking maneuvers, I thought I would share a little about how it works.

1. The guy steering the boat isn't the captain. Some low level dude.

2. He's not holding a large wheel like Jack Sparrow. It's probably a knob on a panel.

3. Captain and pilot are standing nearby drinking coffee.

4. If they lost steerage, or power, this unfolded slowly and there was little they could do.

This. From the video sequence showing the two power losses, the ship didn't have a fucking chance.

So....I wonder about how they can set up temporary ferries, at least for truck traffic that has to go around Baltimore. As for the harbor.....holy shit, they are fooked. They have to get that debris clear, and fast. And "fast" will likely be weeks.

CoTex · March 26

And, they likely had a lot of very experienced mariners on the bridge at the moment of crash. 1 captain will have a "master unlimited" license and a lot of sea time. Pilot(s) will have equal license and experience, along with local knowledge. Mates (2-3) will have the same, maybe less experience and a slightly lower license. One or more "AB's" or "able bodied seamen" who have sea time and coast guard licenses. One or more engineer who knows how to make the engine go, and has a coast guard or similar license.

When shit hits the fan the engineer runs to the engine room like Scotty in a Star Trek movie.

I predict they're going 5-10 knots and, when the engine stops (presuming it did), the ship is going to keep going 5-10 knots until it hits something hard or drifts to a stop.

ztejas · March 26

1 hour ago, troph said:

Get a tool to break your glass windows. Besides impact the next risk issue is electrical malfunction when trying to escape. You have almost no time to get your windows rolled down. It’s almost impossible to break glass manually and it is impossible to open the doors when submerged.

CoTex · March 26

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This. From the video sequence showing the two power losses, the ship didn't have a fucking chance.

So....I wonder about how they can set up temporary ferries, at least for truck traffic that has to go around Baltimore. As for the harbor.....holy shit, they are fooked. They have to get that debris clear, and fast. And "fast" will likely be weeks.

We've got some US Navy people working on setting up a port/pier in Gaza right now. I bet they could have something up and running pretty quickly if necessary. It's really just money. If you want to throw $5,000 at this, you will make 0 progress. $5,000,000,000? It'll happen a lot faster. I don't know what their port and traffic alternatives are but right now they've got to figure out how to get the cars, ship and bridge wreckage out of the way, and those cars may have people in them.

Didn't rooskies just rebuild a bridge in Crimea? How long did that take? Partial rebuild?

ButtFumble · March 26

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This. From the video sequence showing the two power losses, the ship didn't have a fucking chance.

So....I wonder about how they can set up temporary ferries, at least for truck traffic that has to go around Baltimore. As for the harbor.....holy shit, they are fooked. They have to get that debris clear, and fast. And "fast" will likely be weeks.

32,000 cars per day use that bridge......if you have ever been to Galveston and taken the ferry to Bolivar in a holiday weekend you know how fucked it can be....hell or on just a busy weekend

the Ferrys there hold 70 cars each and it takes about 20 minutes to go 2.7 miles so that is 5,024 cars per ferry per day going 24 hours straight

it looks like a shorter distance in Baltimore, but they would still need to build the docks and acquire the ferrys

Samson's Wig · March 26

1 hour ago, MissingInAction said:

Just remember when going over the massive toll road bridges in Central Texas that aggies designed them.

Or don't, it's best that you dont.

Goredho · March 26

Well that was pretty spectacularly terrifying.

Da Fino · March 26

2 hours ago, UTCzech III said:

Damn, I watch that yt channel all the time, cool to watch the ships come in and out. They usually train the camera on the port during the day, lucky to have it facing the bridge last night. Rewind about 7 hours and you can watch the whole thing unfold, sickening how slowly it happens. Prayers to all the workers on that bridge..

It's kind of interesting that there had been a decent amount of semis going over the bridge but none when the impact happened. I wonder if someone noticed what has happening and alerted on the radios. I assume those guys still use CB's.

FartingMonk · March 26

2 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

built in Korea in 2015 and Singapore flagged

Does your TikTok ship from Singapore have any ties to the Chinese Communist Party?

CoTex · March 26

10 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Turning or docking activities?

Probably very cost ineffective to have tug boats on the standby when ships are underway. At least cost ineffective until they take down an entire bridge.

It's complicated. If you watch traffic in the Corpus Christi ship channel, from Port Aransas on in, sometimes they use tugs. Spinning a big ass prop in a narrow channel with an 18 knot crosswind is a tricky proposition. Using the tug comes with its own cost, problems and risk. Is it going to connect with a cable? is it just going to ride on one side of the bow and push/pull? Those tug guys get killed from time to time because that job is dangerous. Hooking up tugs to everybody coming and going isn't a guarantee.

I guess one could be thinking "rescue tug" that just sits there by the bridge and when something goes awry they go lasso the ship, throw it into reverse, and save the day. It would be fun to watch but I doubt it's a realistic plan.

Data point - internet says wind was 6mph, gusting to 17, at 2am. I'm pretty sure that would be considered almost calm/very mild for this operation. Wind was not a factor. They had momentum and lost steering / power somehow.

MontereyMX · March 26

22 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Yeah, obviously first thought it with the lives lost. But beyond that, this seems like it is going to fuck up the Baltimore area pretty good, and for quite a while. I assume the port is completely closed until the debris can be cleared, which will take what, weeks? Rebuilding the bridge will take years. Looking at Google Maps, just across the bridge are a bunch of warehouses and distribution centers - Amazon, Fedex, Home Depot, looks like a big VW entry point. A lot of economically important traffic must flow over this bridge every single day.

Capt. Pablo down in Boquillas should move his operation NE. Would do quite well in a short amount of time.

Daddy Fat Sax · March 26

Just now, CoTex said:

It's complicated. If you watch traffic in the Corpus Christi ship channel, from Port Aransas on in, sometimes they use tugs. Spinning a big ass prop in a narrow channel with an 18 knot crosswind is a tricky proposition. Using the tug comes with its own cost, problems and risk. Is it going to connect with a cable? is it just going to ride on one side of the bow and push/pull? Those tug guys get killed from time to time because that job is dangerous. Hooking up tugs to everybody coming and going isn't a guarantee.

I guess one could be thinking "rescue tug" that just sits there by the bridge and when something goes awry they go lasso the ship, throw it into reverse, and save the day. It would be fun to watch but I doubt it's a realistic plan.

Data point - internet says wind was 6mph, gusting to 17, at 2am. I'm pretty sure that would be considered almost calm/very mild for this operation. Wind was not a factor. They had momentum and lost steering / power somehow.

This is something I saw online. Not sure of validity.

freyguy · March 26

22 minutes ago, CoTex said:

As someone who has been on the bridge of a large vessel during docking maneuvers, I thought I would share a little about how it works.

1. The guy steering the boat isn't the captain. Some low level dude.

2. He's not holding a large wheel like Jack Sparrow. It's probably a knob on a panel.

3. Captain and pilot are standing nearby drinking coffee.

4. If they lost steerage, or power, this unfolded slowly and there was little they could do.

except evacuate / prohibit traffic on the bridge. Will be curious to see the timing of all these events, and if more could have been done to prevent folks from being caught in the collapse.

High Plains Drifter · March 26

2 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster

https://tulsaports.com/

^^^^The two-time convicted felon William James Clark impersonated a U.S. Army captain at the disaster scene for two days. Clark's efforts included directing FBI agents and appropriating vehicles and equipment for the rescue effort, before fleeing the scene. Clark was later apprehended in Canada.^[7]

17 minutes ago, CoTex said:

I predict they're going 5-10 knots and, when the engine stops (presuming it did), the ship is going to keep going 5-10 knots until it hits something hard or drifts to a stop.

Inertia is a bitch

RPM · March 26

Just now, Goredho said:

Well that was pretty spectacularly terrifying.

Imagine that truck driver. I've driven a loaded 18 wheeler over the old Huey P. Long bridge a few times before the expansion. Took a 5 lb sledge to knock the pucker out of the seat afterward.

HenryJames · March 26

25 minutes ago, CoTex said:

1. The guy steering the boat isn't the captain. Some low level dude.

RPM · March 26

3 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

It's kind of interesting that there had been a decent amount of semis going over the bridge but none when the impact happened. I wonder if someone noticed what has happening and alerted on the radios. I assume those guys still use CB's.

Not much anymore. Most just use Waze.

Jerry Callo · March 26

Just now, RPM said:

Not much anymore. Most just use Waze.

10-4

Texas Flood · March 26

Gatorubet · March 26

2 hours ago, RPM said:

Oh say can you see

that big fucking bridge

it's over a mile long

and right in front of you.

and the loss of light’s glare

Made us all wonder where

The span supports were

Till we crashed into there

Da Fino · March 26

4 minutes ago, RPM said:

Not much anymore. Most just use Waze.

Thanks

Brisketexan · March 26

16 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

32,000 cars per day use that bridge......if you have ever been to Galveston and taken the ferry to Bolivar in a holiday weekend you know how fucked it can be....hell or on just a busy weekend

the Ferrys there hold 70 cars each and it takes about 20 minutes to go 2.7 miles so that is 5,024 cars per ferry per day going 24 hours straight

it looks like a shorter distance in Baltimore, but they would still need to build the docks and acquire the ferrys

Yeah, ferries can't replace the bridge for the purpose of all car traffic. That's why I suggested for truck traffic only (much of which HAS to go around Baltimore/can't use the tunnels, by law). It would still be a mega-cluster. And yeah, you'd have to use ferries larger than the ones at Bolivar. Which is doable, as most ferries ARE much larger than that. I've taken ferries in the PNW, NY, and overseas that are much, much larger. Now, whether there are any available.....that's its own question. And whether there's a spot for a suitable ferry landing....also a question. Just spitballing here to partially problem solve.

CoTex · March 26

I know where they can get a ferry.

Pete Davidson has an update on that ferry he bought with Colin Jost | CNN

Parliament · March 26

bernorange · March 26

Ship lost power at a critical juncture. Was the ship made by Boeing?

Celery Man · March 26

1 hour ago, markstanco said:

For those that dont go there, that is a major artery going around the city, ala 610 in Houston or 635 in Dallas. Now people are going to have to travel through downtown area or go way up North to go through.

yeah we usually take that route when we're driving to NYC. That whole stretch from DC up to NYC is busy all the time.

RPM · March 26

Just now, bernorange said:

Was the ship made by Boeing?

markstanco · March 26

14 minutes ago, RPM said:

Not much anymore. Most just use Waze.

Can confirm, I have a little handheld I will turn on during long trips for entertainment and I am NOT entertained from the silence.

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