Baltimore Bridge Disaster

[Brisketexan 106889]

1 minute ago, CoTex said:

I know where they can get a ferry.

Pete Davidson has an update on that ferry he bought with Colin Jost | CNN

 

Baltimore being saved by a ferry driven by a stoned Pete Davidson fits PERFECTLY in this timeline.

[BamaATL 16593]

Just an idea, and without knowing anything about the local geology, but I do wonder if wouldn't be quicker to tunnel.  Those massive boring machines can chew about 1/6 of a mile in 30 days or so.  Considering the total length of the bridge, about 1.6 miles they could conceivably bore that in about 180 days.  Fitting the tunnel after the fact is another matter, but it may well be a quicker solution.  

[RPM 26623]

1 minute ago, BamaATL said:

but I do wonder if wouldn't be quicker to tunnel. 

Boston has entered the chat.

[Helobious 9818]

4 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Just an idea, and without knowing anything about the local geology, but I do wonder if wouldn't be quicker to tunnel.  Those massive boring machines can chew about 1/6 of a mile in 30 days or so.  Considering the total length of the bridge, about 1.6 miles they could conceivably bore that in about 180 days.  Fitting the tunnel after the fact is another matter, but it may well be a quicker solution.  

A tunnel would take years. They’ll have the bridge rebuilt and open in a year tops. Governments have emergency contracts in place for when stuff like this happens, with massive financial incentives for companies to finish ahead of schedule. And with no traffic to worry about they can work almost unimpeded. They had that bridge in Minneapolis open like 10 months after it fell in the river. That Philly bridge that collapsed recently was reopened weeks later, although it was over land. 

[Daddy Fat Sax 53]

52 minutes ago, CoTex said:

As someone who has been on the bridge of a large vessel during docking maneuvers, I thought I would share a little about how it works.

1.  The guy steering the boat isn't the captain.  Some low level dude.

2.  He's not holding a large wheel like Jack Sparrow.  It's probably a knob on a panel.

3.  Captain and pilot are standing nearby drinking coffee.

4.  If they lost steerage, or power, this unfolded slowly and there was little they could do.

Is there anything about these big ships that makes them more likely to lose power at low speed vs cruising? Or just straight up terrible luck?

[TexEx15 17939]

30 minutes ago, freyguy said:

except evacuate / prohibit traffic on the bridge.  Will be curious to see the timing of all these events, and if more could have been done to prevent folks from being caught in the collapse.

 

[tokamak 6687]

9 minutes ago, Helobious said:

A tunnel would take years. They’ll have the bridge rebuilt and open in a year tops. Governments have emergency contracts in place for when stuff like this happens, with massive financial incentives for companies to finish ahead of schedule. And with no traffic to worry about they can work almost unimpeded. They had that bridge in Minneapolis open like 10 months after it fell in the river. That Philly bridge that collapsed recently was reopened weeks later, although it was over land. 

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it seems like there is a huge difference between this:

and this:

Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_Eastern_View.jpg.webp

Edited March 26 by tokamak

[freyguy 4368]

That's good.  I'm sure they'll nitpick the timing.  

55mph speed limit, 1.6 miles.  Just ballparking 2-5 minutes to cross.

[immamac 44343]

6 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

 

I was wondering how this wasn’t hundreds dead. Holy shit. 

[C-Man 27779]

4 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it seems like there is a huge difference between this:

and this:

 

Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_Eastern_View.jpg.webp 21.58 kB · 2 downloads

Helobius is being a moron again? Go figure. The Googles say the Minnesota bridge that collapsed was 1907 feet long. The Francis Scott Key Bridge is/was 57,546 feet long.

Just 'slightly' different.

 

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

I was wondering how this wasn’t hundreds dead. Holy shit. 

I doubt there was too much traffic on it at 1:15AM on a Tuesday morning but, yes, it's amazing there aren't more cars/people who went into the water.

[Wally Pryor 5410]

Sounds like most of those unaccounted for were in a construction crew filling potholes. 

Jesus. 

[RPM 26623]

7 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

Sounds like most of those unaccounted for were in a construction crew filling potholes. 

Jesus. 

Je-sus

[Helobious 9818]

14 minutes ago, immamac said:

I was wondering how this wasn’t hundreds dead. Holy shit. 

Fucking this. In the middle of that 1:40AM Tuesday morning rush hour it’s a miracle more didn’t die. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19454]

4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

As someone who has a very serious fear of bridges, yeah. This is definitely one that is going to cause some nightmares.

Not a fan?

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19454]

15 minutes ago, C-Man said:

The Francis Scott Key Bridge is/was 57,546 feet long.

10.9 mile bridge?

[Ghost of LL 15698]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Not a fan?

 

[CoTex 1177]

28 minutes ago, Daddy Fat Sax said:

Is there anything about these big ships that makes them more likely to lose power at low speed vs cruising? Or just straight up terrible luck?

Good question.  There are multiple failure modes and we need to know more.  Here are some kinda obvious examples

1.  The prop falls off.  No forward or reverse thrust.  They still have headway which means they maybe can steer and try to thread the needle/dodge the support.

2.  Fire in the engine room and everything auto shuts off to keep the ship from burning up.  In that case, you can turn the helm/call for more or less power but no response.

I predict that they start the engine some time before they leave the dock, let it warm up, and go through some check/tests.  Those are designed to expose anything big.  Also, noteworthy, the engine shutting off may or may not cause the lights flickering like they did.  That ship has batteries, backups.  If my car stalls the lights don't all go off - same concept.  

There is redundancy and none of it helped here, for whatever reason.

[babysdaddy 2731]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

I thought I was the only one.  Crossing the Bay Bridge or the Golden Gate used to make me sweat.  

[Deej 77813]

"Next week, on Below Deck: Baltimore..."

Edited March 26 by Deej

[Ghost of LL 15698]

3 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

I thought I was the only one.  Crossing the Bay Bridge or the Golden Gate used to make me sweat.  

My brother--when we're in San Francisco, I won't do it.  The last couple times to Napa, Mrs.LL knows I am going to pull over at the scenic overlook before we get to the Golden Gate Bridge and she is driving across.  I'm going to sit there and stare at my phone in the passenger seat as we go across.  But there's no fucking way I'm driving it.

The weird thing is--I'll walk out on it.  I mean, not to the center.  But I'll go out a hundred feet or so onto the bridge on the sidewalk.  But no fucking way I'm driving.

[CoTex 1177]

Ships name is the Dali, after the painter.  Managed by these guys who also manage LNG carriers.

Ship Management Company | Synergy Marine Group

It is very fortunate that they crashed a container ship and not an LNG ship.  As I understand it, when one of those LNG ships explodes, it's going to make a very loud boom.

 

[Helobious 9818]

Holy fuck at the people on reddit: 

[Jerry Callo 8959]

42 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I doubt there was too much traffic on it at 1:15AM on a Tuesday morning but, yes, it's amazing there aren't more cars/people who went into the water.

Here's a pretty good time lapse.  You can see the volume of traffic and how it stops towards the end.  

 

[ztejas 44228]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

They had that bridge in Minneapolis open like 10 months after it fell in the river. That Philly bridge that collapsed recently was reopened weeks later, although it was over land.

They aren't completing an 8,000 foot suspension bridge over the fucking ocean in under a year. That's an absurd timetable. 

[Brisketexan 106889]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

They aren't completing an 8,000 foot suspension bridge over the fucking ocean in under a year. That's an absurd timetable. 

I dunno.....word is they've already got a crack team lined up for the job.....

[Helobious 9818]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

They aren't completing an 8,000 foot suspension bridge over the fucking ocean in under a year. That's an absurd timetable. 

Well I definitely wouldn’t be giving your company a contract with that defeatist attitude. 
 

They need that thing open for commerce, for automobiles and all the ships that have to pass beneath it. It’ll be an all out push and people will be back driving on it March 2025. 

[Ghost of LL 15698]

Clearing the channel to ship traffic is the first priority, and that's not going to be a small task, either.

[BillyGoatHill 4420]

1 hour ago, Daddy Fat Sax said:

This is something I saw online. Not sure of validity.  

 

 

This guy does a pretty good breakdown of what he thinks happened with actions taken (bottom for video)....

 

[gsoda3 3362]

55 minutes ago, C-Man said:

The Francis Scott Key Bridge is/was 57,546 feet long.

are you measuring that with tiny baby feet?

[Brisketexan 106889]

Oh, and as we discuss bridges, and phobias about them, particularly @Ghost of LL's fear, I will re-share one of my best memories ever.  

We were traveling through SETX, I was driving.  Being quite wet/marshy country, there are plenty of bridges we had to go over.  GOLL shared his loathing of bridges.  Well, our route one day took us over this bad boy:

I warned him, but did so with a cackle of glee.  Should be an ordinary crossing, right?  Nope.  They were doing construction, so it was shut down to one lane. And what happened RIGHT as we got to the top - I mean literally, maybe 2 car lengths from the fulcrum where it started descending the other way?  The shitty old pickup truck in front of us died.  Comes to a dead stop.  As do we.  A dead stop at the very top of the Rainbow Bridge.  You can feel it swaying underneath us.  GOLL was about to claw his way out of the car and run back down when the construction crew sees what's up, comes over, and pushes the broken down truck over the crest, so it can coast down the other side.  We let it do so, then we go and finally get off the bridge.

GOLL made me drive back by a different route, IIRC.

Was I laughing much more than a decent person should?  Yes.  Yes I was.  I am a terrible human.

[Foosters 18279]

26 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

My brother--when we're in San Francisco, I won't do it.  The last couple times to Napa, Mrs.LL knows I am going to pull over at the scenic overlook before we get to the Golden Gate Bridge and she is driving across.  I'm going to sit there and stare at my phone in the passenger seat as we go across.  But there's no fucking way I'm driving it.

The weird thing is--I'll walk out on it.  I mean, not to the center.  But I'll go out a hundred feet or so onto the bridge on the sidewalk.  But no fucking way I'm driving.

I had a legitimate, full-blown panic attack while driving over the Ravenel bridge in Charleston, SC many years ago. My first (and thankfully one of the last) panic attacks, so had no idea what was going on. Remains one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. None since, but every time I hit a bridge behind a wheel I take a deep breath and think "here we go." 

[Boss Hogg 808]

Wow never knew people could be such pussies about driving over a bridge

[crash_davis 23470]

I guess this shit happens more frequently that expected. Just 8 days ago.

 

 

[texasdago 7770]

This one took two years...

https://www.dezeen.com/2020/08/05/renzo-piano-genoa-san-giorgio-bridge-morandi-bridge/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65684334

Edited March 26 by texasdago

[Samson's Wig 3230]

22 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Wow never knew people could be such pussies about driving over a bridge

Right?  I mean, what could go wrong?

[fattyflattie 4640]

40 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You can feel it swaying underneath us.

I took a few ~250’ tall (long) towers over the Fred Hartman once.  1.2mm pounds each or thereabouts. Took in the neighborhood of 60 axles, 2 pull trucks and 2 push trucks for each tower.   It was swaying like a mf when they were coming up that thing.  I was legit pretty nervous and hoping the bridge engineer that go is the permits didn’t get his degree from aggy.  

[52-80 19377]

2 hours ago, CoTex said:

When shit hits the fan the engineer runs to the engine room like Scotty in a Star Trek movie.

I predict they're going 5-10 knots and, when the engine stops (presuming it did), the ship is going to keep going 5-10 knots until it hits something hard or drifts to a stop.

How it probably went down

https://media1.tenor.com/images/8856829276753769696359b9a5767521/tenor.gif

 

 

[52-80 19377]

44 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Wow never knew people could be such pussies about driving over a bridge

Dont be so callous and unempathetic.
My worst fear is being stuck in a car with people who are afraid of bridges. 

[achooloco 1086]

2 hours ago, BamaATL said:

No worries, me and my guys will have that thing up an running in a couple of weeks, and by a couple of weeks, I mean about 400 and just a few billion dollars.  

In all seriousness, that's pretty awful, though I have to admit I'm surprised we don't get more of this.  Between failing infrastructure and just weird shit, its a chaotic world.  

This will obviously be much more difficult logistically, but that I95 bridge that fell around PHILLY got put up pretty quick. Maybe get some of those dudes to strap on scuba gear and help out?

[Celery Man 21095]

Leon Bridges has a song called "River" on his album "Coming Home" and that can't be a coincidence

[Native Horn 3581]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Helobius is being a moron again? Go figure. The Googles say the Minnesota bridge that collapsed was 1907 feet long. The Francis Scott Key Bridge is/was 57,546 feet long.

Just 'slightly' different.

 

I doubt there was too much traffic on it at 1:15AM on a Tuesday morning but, yes, it's amazing there aren't more cars/people who went into the water.

You may wanna rethink your math there, Professor.

[ztejas 44228]

5 minutes ago, Native Horn said:

You may wanna rethink your math there, Professor.

He - or someone else - appears to have fat fingered 10.6 miles instead of 1.6.

Edited March 26 by ztejas

[Pescado_Rojo 19586]

54 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, and as we discuss bridges, and phobias about them, particularly @Ghost of LL's fear, I will re-share one of my best memories ever.  

We were traveling through SETX, I was driving.  Being quite wet/marshy country, there are plenty of bridges we had to go over.  GOLL shared his loathing of bridges.  Well, our route one day took us over this bad boy:

I warned him, but did so with a cackle of glee.  Should be an ordinary crossing, right?  Nope.  They were doing construction, so it was shut down to one lane. And what happened RIGHT as we got to the top - I mean literally, maybe 2 car lengths from the fulcrum where it started descending the other way?  The shitty old pickup truck in front of us died.  Comes to a dead stop.  As do we.  A dead stop at the very top of the Rainbow Bridge.  You can feel it swaying underneath us.  GOLL was about to claw his way out of the car and run back down when the construction crew sees what's up, comes over, and pushes the broken down truck over the crest, so it can coast down the other side.  We let it do so, then we go and finally get off the bridge.

GOLL made me drive back by a different route, IIRC.

Was I laughing much more than a decent person should?  Yes.  Yes I was.  I am a terrible human.

I know I've told you this story, but don't remember if I've told it here. When I was a little kid, I was riding with my uncle and cousin when he ran out of gas going up the Rainbow Bridge on the Port Arthur side. He had just bought a brand new Datsun B210 wagon, and I think he was of the belief that the thing would run on the rumor of gasoline. As we passed the last gas station on Gulfway drive heading for Bridge City, his wife asks "Aren't you going to stop for gas?" No, Uncle Jim did not stop for gas, because the gas gauge being on the wrong side of E just meant he should think about getting gas sometime in the near future. We made it almost to the top...we were inside the superstructure at the top...when it died and wouldn't start. Ole Uncle Jim just threw it in neutral, threw his arm over the passenger seat, switched lanes, and backed that sumbitch all the way down. With his wife giving him the business the whole way down. 

[Rex Kramer 1536]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Well I definitely wouldn’t be giving your company a contract with that defeatist attitude. 
 

They need that thing open for commerce, for automobiles and all the ships that have to pass beneath it. It’ll be an all out push and people will be back driving on it March 2025. 

[G650 14437]

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

yeah we usually take that route when we're driving to NYC. That whole stretch from DC up to NYC is busy all the time.

It's a bit more of a choice from where you area coming from, but I always recommend going up the eastern shore and avoiding I-95

[JesusSweatDuck 18108]

Interesting thread. He's predicting multiple years

Also, modern bridge designs shouldn't do this, but those designs started in the 80s

 

[Francisco 2.0 32587]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Not a fan?

 

 

Japan laughs and says hold my beer:

 

[G650 14437]

2 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Just an idea, and without knowing anything about the local geology, but I do wonder if wouldn't be quicker to tunnel.  Those massive boring machines can chew about 1/6 of a mile in 30 days or so.  Considering the total length of the bridge, about 1.6 miles they could conceivably bore that in about 180 days.  Fitting the tunnel after the fact is another matter, but it may well be a quicker solution.  

As someone who is a road builder and lives in a area with multiple underwater tunnels, two currently under construction for parallel tunnels,  I can assure you this is seriously not the case.

[ABSR 5369]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

They aren't completing an 8,000 foot suspension bridge over the fucking ocean in under a year. That's an absurd timetable. 

The real immediate issue is that the debris may block passage in and out of the port of Baltimore.  So ships can't exit the port, ships can't get in, and cargo can't go in or out.  First issue is to clear debris so ship traffic can flow and the port can resume operations.

[Hate 20247]

I’ve driven over this bridge over 50 times already this year and every single time I think about that bridge collapsing. The cruise ships that dock in NO are absolutely taller than the street level of the bridge. I assume the cruise ships need to take on some water to get low enough to make it under, but the thought that they may have grazed the bridge and caused some damage is in the back of my mind every time I cross it.