Happy Easter

[Red Five 40666]

 

Well there it is.

[Anastasis 23394]

 

[Willfully Horn 7919]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

God became man so that man could become God. Happy ham Easter. 

God created a universe which inexorably led to a consciousness capable of an experience of God, because sharing is a natural impulse for those without personality defects.

Pig tastes good.

Edited April 1 by Willfully Horn

[WhatTheBuck 28714]

8 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Yes, I believe Jesus lived. He was mentioned in the writings of both Roman and Jewish historians.

Are both of them Josephus? He’s not reliable and wasn’t an “historian” in the modern sense of the word. There are questions about the reliability of his (scant) writings about Jesus, whom he never knew, and whether his accounts were even his own and not edits added later on by believers with an agenda. (He 

No one wrote about Jesus during the time that he was alleged to have existed. Not even the Romans who were kind of big on record-keeping. Can you name a Roman “historian” who wrote about Jesus and who wasn’t a Christian convert? Can you name a source that mentions Jesus earlier than 100 years after his supposed death?

If you want to believe, it’s easy to be convinced. If you don’t care what’s true and only want to find convincing evidence about whether Jesus really existed, you can’t find any. I have no idea if the historical Jesus actually existed. I doubt that he did. Maybe he did. Maybe he’s a compilation of numerous characters who existed during that time, itinerant preachers who advocated peace and love for everyone like a first century hippie. Maybe he’s a purely fictional character like Gandalf or Hari Seldon or John Galt.

It doesn’t really matter. Someone wrote the words attributed to him and we can take those words for what they’re worth. But I’ve yet to see any convincing evidence that the historical Jesus actually existed. If he really was all that the legends and myths say he was, someone who lived during his time would’ve mentioned him. 

3 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

God created a universe

Who created God?

[Sbbruin 21740]

 

[StassneyHorn 6540]

13 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Are both of them Josephus? He’s not reliable and wasn’t an “historian” in the modern sense of the word. There are questions about the reliability of his (scant) writings about Jesus, whom he never knew, and whether his accounts were even his own and not edits added later on by believers with an agenda. (He 

No one wrote about Jesus during the time that he was alleged to have existed. Not even the Romans who were kind of big on record-keeping. Can you name a Roman “historian” who wrote about Jesus and who wasn’t a Christian convert? Can you name a source that mentions Jesus earlier than 100 years after his supposed death?

If you want to believe, it’s easy to be convinced. If you don’t care what’s true and only want to find convincing evidence about whether Jesus really existed, you can’t find any. I have no idea if the historical Jesus actually existed. I doubt that he did. Maybe he did. Maybe he’s a compilation of numerous characters who existed during that time, itinerant preachers who advocated peace and love for everyone like a first century hippie. Maybe he’s a purely fictional character like Gandalf or Hari Seldon or John Galt.

It doesn’t really matter. Someone wrote the words attributed to him and we can take those words for what they’re worth. But I’ve yet to see any convincing evidence that the historical Jesus actually existed. If he really was all that the legends and myths say he was, someone who lived during his time would’ve mentioned him. 

Tacitus and Pliny the younger are two more off the top of my head. I don’t care enough to wiki whether they are serious or not

 

[Biff Tannen 45500]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

 

I haven't gone to church since high school and even then I was not anything near a regular.  I have that shit memorized.  What a fucking idiot.  Just a buffoon and a conman.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33844]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I haven't gone to church since high school and even then I was not anything near a regular.  I have that shit memorized.  What a fucking idiot.  Just a buffoon and a conman.  

recovered catholic here. 18 years in school and have only stepped foot in church since for baptisms and funerals. pretty sure I can recite that prayer in spanish and I don't speak it (not well, at least). he never knew it in the first place. and that is why (among many other reasons) he failed

[F250 28693]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:52 AM, David Dennison said:

Today is one of those days when I'm reminded that most Christians probably don't know what the Immaculate Conception is.

 

I'm pretty sure belief in the Immaculate Conception is unique to Roman Catholicism and rejected by Protestants and the Orthodox churches.

Of course many Christians wouldn't know about the Immaculate Conception, it's not something Christians outside of the RCC are taught.

[bolverk 29409]

6 minutes ago, F250 said:

I'm pretty sure belief in the Immaculate Conception is unique to Roman Catholicism and rejected by Protestants and the Orthodox churches.

Of course many Christians wouldn't know about the Immaculate Conception, it's not something Christians outside of the RCC are taught.

[YGIFS 19449]

3 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

 

There's a "Why not Both" gif in here somewhere.

I'm not overtly of formal faith, but I recite it a few times per week because it was a fond memory I have of my grandfather and father.  And it has a healing quality to it.  Never mind the shitty stuff this guy has done and not done in his life, he lived for a half century within blocks of a dozen houses of worship in Manhattan.  I know at this point, nobody on his team is gonna be swayed.  But for shits 'n giggles, during this still continual Easter week...ask somebody who loves him what is his denomination is.  And just watch and smile as they baffle around.  "Well, he's a strong Christian sent by God."  And reply, "No, I get it.  He was sent by the Lord.  But what would you say his Protestant faith is after having had supported him for the last decade?  I know there are many, but what you say it is he worships here?"  Admittedly, it's kinda sad to watch family members and friends to acknowledge it in real time, but also as cathartic as the higher power's help.  

Edited April 1 by YGIFS

[Macanudo 12928]

44 minutes ago, F250 said:

I'm pretty sure belief in the Immaculate Conception is unique to Roman Catholicism and rejected by Protestants and the Orthodox churches.

Of course many Christians wouldn't know about the Immaculate Conception, it's not something Christians outside of the RCC are taught.

So Mary wasn't a virgin?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13547]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I haven't gone to church since high school and even then I was not anything near a regular.  I have that shit memorized.  What a fucking idiot.  Just a buffoon and a conman.  

I got it ingrained from Little League Football in Alabama.

[Sbbruin 21740]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

I'm pretty sure belief in the Immaculate Conception is unique to Roman Catholicism and rejected by Protestants and the Orthodox churches.

Of course many Christians wouldn't know about the Immaculate Conception, it's not something Christians outside of the RCC are taught.

Maybe you're right, but I grew up Presbyterian, and I was always taught the Immaculate Conception was a thing.  At least that's what she told Joseph to cover her tracks.

[bolverk 29409]

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Maybe you're right, but I grew up Presbyterian, and I was always taught the Immaculate Conception was a thing.  At least that's what she told Joseph to cover her tracks.

I don't think he's right. I was raised Southern Baptist, and it was definitely taught. I was just googling this to find out which Protestant denominations don't believe in the Virgin Birth. I've only found a reference to an offshoot of the Mormons called Strangites and the Moonies, along with a list of individual preachers/priests/ministers or whatever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_virgin_birth_of_Jesus

Wikipedia is about the best I can do, though, because I'm certainly not an expert in comparative religious studies.

It is funny because I'd completely forgotten that one of my host fathers in France when I was an exchange student back in the day also thought Protestants, by and large, didn't believe in the immaculate conception of Christ. I was all like, "Quoi?"

Maybe it's true in Europe? I highly doubt it's widespread among devout American Protestants, though.

[Anastasis 23394]

5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I don't think he's right. I was raised Southern Baptist, and it was definitely taught

The IC is a doctrine related to original sin. The Catholics teach that Mary was conceived free of original sin. It doesn’t have anything to do with the virgin birth. It’s a doctrine that was formalized in the 20th century by the Catholic Church. It undermines an incarnational understanding of salvation and is based on a western understanding of original sin and for those reasons most orthodox reject it. 

[Anastasis 23394]

Check that. 19th century. 

[bolverk 29409]

20 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The IC is a doctrine related to original sin. The Catholics teach that Mary was conceived free of original sin. It doesn’t have anything to do with the virgin birth. It’s a doctrine that was formalized in the 20th century by the Catholic Church. It undermines an incarnational understanding of salvation and is based on a western understanding of original sin and for those reasons most orthodox reject it. 

 

Huh. That's interesting. I'll obviously defer to you because I know you've studied all of this quite a bit more than I have. Growing up (and to this day, like, until a few minutes ago), I'd always interpreted Immaculate Conception as being the same as her giving birth to Jesus as a virgin -- not that she'd been completely without sin before getting pregnant. Yeah, I can see how that would throw in a few wrinkles if you were also taught that Jesus was the ONLY person to have ever lived without sin.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13547]

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33844]

kinda weird that 2000 years later we can't all agree on what jesus said or did. it's almost like it's made up.

[atomheartbevo 89452]

25 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

kinda weird that 2000 years later we can't all agree on what jesus said or did. it's almost like it's made up.

We still kind of disagree on what happened during the Mack Brown years.

And kudos to @Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand for the 13th Floor Elevators nod.

Edited April 2 by atomheartbevo

[Surly Bevo 24696]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

We still kind of disagree on what happened during the Mack Brown years.

He killed himself down in Florida and on the third day he rose again to scuttle the Saban deal.  

[atomheartbevo 89452]

1 minute ago, Surly Bevo said:

He killed himself down in Florida and on the third day he rose again to scuttle the Saban deal.  

[F250 28693]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

 

Huh. That's interesting. I'll obviously defer to you because I know you've studied all of this quite a bit more than I have. Growing up (and to this day, like, until a few minutes ago), I'd always interpreted Immaculate Conception as being the same as her giving birth to Jesus as a virgin -- not that she'd been completely without sin before getting pregnant. Yeah, I can see how that would throw in a few wrinkles if you were also taught that Jesus was the ONLY person to have ever lived without sin.

Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, it's a Catholic thing so most people don't understand the concept and conflate it with the virgin birth.

As you can tell by the comments, the Protestants are pretty clueless about the subject.

[F250 28693]

36 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Non-denominationals definitely believe in the IC. 

[Willfully Horn 7919]

The Lord’s Prayer is the only prayer my family says together.  

Unsurprising tfg doesn’t know the words. He doesn’t know the pledge of allegiance either, which is literally dumbfounding.

Edited April 2 by Willfully Horn

[YGIFS 19449]

So he literally founded dumbness?  (Looks at notes).  Yeah, that actually checks out. 

[956 Worldwide 34444]

5 hours ago, BeardIP said:

This is hard to believe for me (not saying you are wrong, it's just a bit jarring).

Non-denominationals definitely believe in the IC. 

@F250 and @Anastasis are right about this.  “Immaculate Conception” sounds like a synonym for the virgin birth but it isn’t. It’s a piece of Roman Catholic doctrine fully explicated not long ago that holds that Mary herself was conceived free of original sin, because as God, Jesus could not have inhabited a sinful vessel. 
 

Protestants and Orthodox don’t have the same view of original sin so the issue of Mary’s state isn’t important and there’s no need for a doctrine.  It’s like expecting them to get the ins and outs of papal infallibility, it doesn’t apply. It’s interesting if you want to get crazy with apologetics or just take an academic interest in it all. 

[WhatTheBuck 28714]

11 hours ago, bolverk said:

Yeah, I can see how that would throw in a few wrinkles if you were also taught that Jesus was the ONLY person to have ever lived without sin.

I’m pretty sure my mom counts herself among that exclusive club. 

[troph 24563]

14 hours ago, F250 said:

I'm pretty sure belief in the Immaculate Conception is unique to Roman Catholicism and rejected by Protestants and the Orthodox churches.

Of course many Christians wouldn't know about the Immaculate Conception, it's not something Christians outside of the RCC are taught.

I learned something new, I assumed it was the no sperm virgin impregnation of Mary. I didn’t realize Catholics believe Mary was free from original sin (makes sense - the belief - now that I think about it given their adoration for her / Protestants have her as a mere footnote in their belief system). I’d say that belief in the IC is kinda jacked but then an impregnation without an egg and sperm is kinda wild too.

Edited April 2 by troph

[F250 28693]

6 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

The Lord’s Prayer is the only prayer my family says together.  

Unsurprising tfg doesn’t know the words. He doesn’t know the pledge of allegiance either, which is literally dumbfounding.

To be fair, the first time I had to say the pledge of allegiance years after being out of school I combined the Lord's prayer with the pledge. This was my first time coaching in Little League and I had to lead the pledge of allegiance before the opening game.

I accidentally followed up "One nation under God" with "uhhh, give us this day our daily bread and the pursuit of life, liberty and justice. Amen."

 

 

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

@F250 and @Anastasis are right about this.  “Immaculate Conception” sounds like a synonym for the virgin birth but it isn’t. It’s a piece of Roman Catholic doctrine fully explicated not long ago that holds that Mary herself was conceived free of original sin, because as God, Jesus could not have inhabited a sinful vessel. 
 

Protestants and Orthodox don’t have the same view of original sin so the issue of Mary’s state isn’t important and there’s no need for a doctrine.  It’s like expecting them to get the ins and outs of papal infallibility, it doesn’t apply. It’s interesting if you want to get crazy with apologetics or just take an academic interest in it all. 

So does that mean Mary's parents were also free of original sin and so on and so on?

[F250 28693]

1 hour ago, Jiggy-Z said:

So does that mean Mary's parents were also free of original sin and so on and so on?

No. That's the entire point of the Immaculate Conception. The Catholics needed to retcon the conception of Mary to clear up some plot holes created by their doctrine of Original Sin.

[safe sex 11684]

[YGIFS 19449]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

To be fair, the first time I had to say the pledge of allegiance years after being out of school I combined the Lord's prayer with the pledge. This was my first time coaching in Little League and I had to lead the pledge of allegiance before the opening game.

I accidentally followed up "One nation under God" with "uhhh, give us this day our daily bread and the pursuit of life, liberty and justice. Amen."

 

 

I (state your name) with liberty and fraternity for all.  

Please tell me your team is sponsored by Chico’s Bail Bonds

[Red Five 40666]

"The virgin Mary has been impregnated! This child could only have come from God himself!"

Mary: 

[Brisketexan 104635]

7 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s a piece of Roman Catholic doctrine fully explicated not long ago that holds that Mary herself was conceived free of original sin, because as God, Jesus could not have inhabited a sinful vessel. 

Nevermind the problem that the very act of fuckin' across the board is deemed sinful. Fuck that shit.

But, as someone who grew up Catholic with the whole veneration of Mary thing, that was definitely ingrained.  Hell, when my wife and I married, I put up a little image of the Virgin of Guadalupe in our bathroom.  My wife bristled, I explained "I'm mexican -- we can't shit without Mary watching over us to make sure it all comes out okay!"  I'm pretty sure that's in the Catholic bible somewhere.

[High Plains Drifter 10980]

 

 

On 3/31/2024 at 4:51 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

 

Do you think the character of Jesus in the Bible was a real person who actually existed? 

 

Does the actual true answer to this question, which we will never know, really matter?

 

[YGIFS 19449]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nevermind the problem that the very act of fuckin' across the board is deemed sinful. Fuck that shit.

But, as someone who grew up Catholic with the whole veneration of Mary thing, that was definitely ingrained.  Hell, when my wife and I married, I put up a little image of the Virgin of Guadalupe in our bathroom.  My wife bristled, I explained "I'm mexican -- we can't shit without Mary watching over us to make sure it all comes out okay!"  I'm pretty sure that's in the Catholic bible somewhere.

Honestly brother, you need to see a Theologic-Proctologist.  There's gotta be a few in our state.  Between your post-enchilada/post-waffle house restroom escapades and now this holy card/holy shit background story.  Get it together man, I can help you as you have helped me.  

[Brisketexan 104635]

6 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Honestly brother, you need to see a Theologic-Proctologist.  There's gotta be a few in our state.  Between your post-enchilada/post-waffle house restroom escapades and now this holy card/holy shit background story.  Get it together man, I can help you as you have helped me.  

To be honest, if you just recite a modified Hail Mary as "blessed is the fruit of my colon, OH JESUS!", it all works out fine.  Amen.

[YGIFS 19449]

Well if we don't have a code-violation restaurant opened up by next month called "Blessed is the Fruit of my Colon", I will be greatly disappointed.  

[F250 28693]

54 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Well if we don't have a code-violation restaurant opened up by next month called "Blessed is the Fruit of my Colon", I will be greatly disappointed.  

In Austin, that would be the name of a very successful Asian fusion fruteria truck.

[956 Worldwide 34444]

4 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

So does that mean Mary's parents were also free of original sin and so on and so on?

No, that’s why they needed this special doctrine. God just stepped in and made it happen.  Beyond the theological rationale, the doctrine was formulated because at the time the church wanted to promote Marian devotions to stave off Protestant rationalist incursions and also wanted to just end pointless debates over whether Joachim and Anna had sex or not.  So they just put it to bed with “God did it” and left it up to pious grannies to choose to add any other stuff. This kind of stuff was really important to the medieval mind and had long been a source of debate.