Tell me about Ozempic (Wegovy, etc)

[Zone Read 299]

38 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I had the same thought

I would agree with you if it were somebody else, but I feel absolutely fine.  Had a DEXA scan the other day and I haven't lost that much lean tissue.  I'm 99th percentile for my age in muscle mass.  Whether I was large to start is debatable, I'm 5'7" and started at 246.  Down to 214.  I've always tried to work out and eat right but never could lose weight, obviously now things have changed.  

[chainsaw 9857]

8 hours ago, Zone Read said:

I would agree with you if it were somebody else, but I feel absolutely fine.  Had a DEXA scan the other day and I haven't lost that much lean tissue.  I'm 99th percentile for my age in muscle mass.  Whether I was large to start is debatable, I'm 5'7" and started at 246.  Down to 214.  I've always tried to work out and eat right but never could lose weight, obviously now things have changed.  

I ran into someone recently who had lost quite a bit of weight using a semaglutide. He said that before going the medication route he had tried 1200 calories per day and keto and the body refused to shed fat. Makes me think there's something more going on than just suppressing appetite.

[Herbie Hancock 7344]

Ah yes, the old “I only eat X amount of calories per day and can’t lose weight”. A tale as old as time, and as trustworthy as gas station sushi.

[chainsaw 9857]

5 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Ah yes, the old “I only eat X amount of calories per day and can’t lose weight”. A tale as old as time, and as trustworthy as gas station sushi.

I wondered the same thing, but this is the sort of dude who would be the first to admit if he was cheating on his diet. Plus his wife was there.

[Herbie Hancock 7344]

I wondered the same thing, but this is the sort of dude who would be the first to admit if he was cheating on his diet. Plus his wife was there.

That was condescending and I apologize. The point I want to make but lack the intelligence to articulate in a non-asshole manner is that whenever someone says “I ONLY eat X calories per day and can’t lose weight”, I immediately stop listening.

100% of the time the people that say this are either 1) lying, or 2) actually taking in 2.5-3x that, but they have no concept of actual serving size for all of their intake because they don’t measure it out. You can’t eyeball something and say “yeah that’s 6oz, or yeah that’s a half a cup”. I’ve been doing this for a good while now and I can tell you that everyone underestimates their portions. Ever want to open someone’s eyes, have them do it their way, then break out your digital scale and measuring cup and actually measure it all. The difference is substantial.

[chainsaw 9857]

Just now, Herbie Hancock said:

That was condescending and I apologize. The point I want to make but lack the intelligence to articulate in a non-asshole manner is that whenever someone says “I ONLY eat X calories per day and can’t lose weight”, I immediately stop listening.

100% of the time the people that say this are either 1) lying, or 2) actually taking in 2.5-3x that, but they have no concept of actual serving size for all of their intake because they don’t measure it out. You can’t eyeball something and say “yeah that’s 6oz, or yeah that’s a half a cup”. I’ve been doing this for a good while now and I can tell you that everyone underestimates their portions. Ever want to open someone’s eyes, have them do it their way, then break out your digital scale and measuring cup and actually measure it all. The difference is substantial.

You're fine! I empathize with those folks, and I don't think you're an asshole. He might have been underestimating his portions, for sure, but logically if you're making a concerted effort to come in well under 2000 you'll probably be under 2000 and should be losing weight, especially if you're also burning calories with HIIT and weights.

[Parliament 14240]

We all underestimate portions for sure.  And some of us are blessed with very slow metabolism.  Getting lean and jacked is exceptionally difficult for some folks.  For others all they gotta do is switch to light beer.

[Zone Read 299]

5 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:

That was condescending and I apologize. The point I want to make but lack the intelligence to articulate in a non-asshole manner is that whenever someone says “I ONLY eat X calories per day and can’t lose weight”, I immediately stop listening.

100% of the time the people that say this are either 1) lying, or 2) actually taking in 2.5-3x that, but they have no concept of actual serving size for all of their intake because they don’t measure it out. You can’t eyeball something and say “yeah that’s 6oz, or yeah that’s a half a cup”. I’ve been doing this for a good while now and I can tell you that everyone underestimates their portions. Ever want to open someone’s eyes, have them do it their way, then break out your digital scale and measuring cup and actually measure it all. The difference is substantial.

My minor at UT was nutrition.  While a lot of the shit I learned back in the mid 80s is way out of date, I have a pretty good understanding of portions, carbs, protein, calories, etc.  Genetics plays a huge part in it also.  I did 1500 calories a day and my body would lose some weight (working out 6 times a week) but inevitably I'd go into massive stalls for months at a time.  Trust me, I put in the effort.

Edited June 6 by Zone Read

[tx 3 putt 76870]

 

[Chewbacca 7767]

That was condescending and I apologize. The point I want to make but lack the intelligence to articulate in a non-asshole manner is that whenever someone says “I ONLY eat X calories per day and can’t lose weight”, I immediately stop listening.

100% of the time the people that say this are either 1) lying, or 2) actually taking in 2.5-3x that, but they have no concept of actual serving size for all of their intake because they don’t measure it out. You can’t eyeball something and say “yeah that’s 6oz, or yeah that’s a half a cup”. I’ve been doing this for a good while now and I can tell you that everyone underestimates their portions. Ever want to open someone’s eyes, have them do it their way, then break out your digital scale and measuring cup and actually measure it all. The difference is substantial.

I am one of those people. According to online calculators, my bmr is right around 2300 calories. I eat right (weigh my food and track macros through My Fitness Pal) and do 5 1 hour HIIT classes a week. Even at 2100 calories a day (when my TDEE is supposedly pushing 3500), I cannot lose weight. Dietician I worked with was stumped, too. I'm moving down to 1800 to see if I can get some traction, but there is no need to be a prick.

What works for you doesn't work for everyone.

[markstanco 12571]

That was condescending and I apologize. The point I want to make but lack the intelligence to articulate in a non-asshole manner is that whenever someone says “I ONLY eat X calories per day and can’t lose weight”, I immediately stop listening.

100% of the time the people that say this are either 1) lying, or 2) actually taking in 2.5-3x that, but they have no concept of actual serving size for all of their intake because they don’t measure it out. You can’t eyeball something and say “yeah that’s 6oz, or yeah that’s a half a cup”. I’ve been doing this for a good while now and I can tell you that everyone underestimates their portions. Ever want to open someone’s eyes, have them do it their way, then break out your digital scale and measuring cup and actually measure it all. The difference is substantial.

Awesome of you to apologize. And the rest of what you said is so true. If calories in exceed calories out, the math is simple.

[Herbie Hancock 7344]

I am one of those people. According to online calculators, my bmr is right around 2300 calories. I eat right (weigh my food and track macros through My Fitness Pal) and do 5 1 hour HIIT classes a week. Even at 2100 calories a day (when my TDEE is supposedly pushing 3500), I cannot lose weight. Dietician I worked with was stumped, too. I'm moving down to 1800 to see if I can get some traction, but there is no need to be a prick.

What works for you doesn't work for everyone.

If I wanted to be a prick I’d tell you how I really feel and how I think you’re full of more shit than a Christmas goose and an equal amount of excuses. You are ill-equipped for and in no position to question my knowledge on this topic; that much is evident by your above post. But I’m not trying to be a prick, so I won’t say that.

[CleverNickname 1308]

my take: calories and how they are calculated are all based on very old studies supposedly burning stuff. Those old numbers are now just in reference books, and now things often calculated based on ingredients (Atwater system). It is not clear if all those reference numbers are actually accurate to how the human body utilizes food. It might be a lot of seemingly precise numbers based on a century of bullshit. 

Likewise, I'm not certain calorie meters for exercise is not 90% bullshit. And estimates of baseline metabolism are probably blshit, too. 

So yeah, I think a person could add up food calories and compare to supposed basemetabolism calorie load and exercise expenditure and the math simply not math. Because all those numbers are bullshit, and [Bullshit1] - [Bullshit2 + Bullshit3] is just bullshit with a huuuuge inaccuracy factor. Even if the math added up, the body is dynamic. A hungry person might extract more calories from food, baseline metabolism might slow, and... well, exercise machine calories estimates are still bullshit. 

[chainsaw 9857]

I looked further into how semaglutide works.

It suppresses appetite and slows digestion, but it also induces insulin production and stabilizes blood sugar, which jumpstarts the metabolism. So it will boost the burning of fat even more than otherwise would be burned if the only thing you did was reduce calorie intake by the exact same amount.

On 6/5/2024 at 6:17 PM, Parliament said:

 Getting lean and jacked is exceptionally difficult for some folks.  For others all they gotta do is switch to light beer.

This is accurate. There's guys whose body chemistry freaks the fuck out if their body isn't shaped like a fat person. That's not something willpower alone can overcome.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10227]

2 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

my take: calories and how they are calculated are all based on very old studies supposedly burning stuff. Those old numbers are now just in reference books, and now things often calculated based on ingredients (Atwater system). It is not clear if all those reference numbers are actually accurate to how the human body utilizes food. It might be a lot of seemingly precise numbers based on a century of bullshit. 

Likewise, I'm not certain calorie meters for exercise is not 90% bullshit. And estimates of baseline metabolism are probably blshit, too. 

So yeah, I think a person could add up food calories and compare to supposed basemetabolism calorie load and exercise expenditure and the math simply not math. Because all those numbers are bullshit, and [Bullshit1] - [Bullshit2 + Bullshit3] is just bullshit with a huuuuge inaccuracy factor. Even if the math added up, the body is dynamic. A hungry person might extract more calories from food, baseline metabolism might slow, and... well, exercise machine calories estimates are still bullshit. 

add in that FDA allowance for calorie accuracy is within 20%... that's a huge range 

[Chewbacca 7767]

If I wanted to be a prick I’d tell you how I really feel and how I think you’re full of more shit than a Christmas goose and an equal amount of excuses. You are ill-equipped for and in no position to question my knowledge on this topic; that much is evident by your above post. But I’m not trying to be a prick, so I won’t say that.

Yeah, you're a prick.

[Zone Read 299]

On 6/6/2024 at 10:16 PM, Chewbacca said:

I am one of those people. According to online calculators, my bmr is right around 2300 calories. I eat right (weigh my food and track macros through My Fitness Pal) and do 5 1 hour HIIT classes a week. Even at 2100 calories a day (when my TDEE is supposedly pushing 3500), I cannot lose weight. Dietician I worked with was stumped, too. I'm moving down to 1800 to see if I can get some traction, but there is no need to be a prick.

What works for you doesn't work for everyone.

You may be my long-lost twin.

 

[Viper 12103]

3 hours ago, chainsaw said:

This is accurate. There's guys whose body chemistry freaks the fuck out if their body isn't shaped like a fat person. That's not something willpower alone can overcome.

Sure but it cannot be primarily genetic given obesity didn't really take off until the 90s. My guess from from what I've listened to and read is that being obese changes something in the body and brain and maybe that's when a genetic component kicks in. 

[Chewbacca 7767]

You may be my long-lost twin.
 

My PCP's comment to me was that I would do well in a famine. Thanks, Doc.

[Chewbacca 7767]

Sure but it cannot be primarily genetic given obesity didn't really take off until the 90s. My guess from from what I've listened to and read is that being obese changes something in the body and brain and maybe that's when a genetic component kicks in. 

Sure it can. Not everyone who is overweight eats like shit and doesn't exercise.

And before you call me after ass, I feel skinny when I visit Texas. I feel fat in CO, though.

[Viper 12103]

41 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Sure it can.

Then how did 30% of Americans genetics change in the 80s and 90s?

[Chewbacca 7767]

Then how did 30% of Americans genetics change in the 80s and 90s?

Not for everyone, but for some people it can. Most fat people I know are sucking down soft drinks and fat food like it's going away.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10227]

Just throwing out as well that more studies showing HIIT can, if used as main exercise, disrupt body rhythms and actually cause weight gain while keeping calories constant. So much info on weight loss not known, but these new drugs seem near 100% as being effective for all. Just another tool in process and one that has potential to really change large number of lives.

[Zone Read 299]

20 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Just throwing out as well that more studies showing HIIT can, if used as main exercise, disrupt body rhythms and actually cause weight gain while keeping calories constant. So much info on weight loss not known, but these new drugs seem near 100% as being effective for all. Just another tool in process and one that has potential to really change large number of lives.

Seriously??  FML if that's true.  I would seriously consider walking into heavy traffic if I found out my main type of exercise for the last 15 years could actually cause me to gain weight.  HIIT is brutal.  I at least deserve some weight loss benefit from doing it.  

[chainsaw 9857]

I would like to know the long-term effects on the body chemistry. It's already generally accepted that this is a "forever drug" for people who want to stay slimmer, and that most people who stop using the drug put the weight back on fairly quickly.

But is the rate of weight gain the same rate as someone who simply gives up a diet or exercise regimen, or is it accelerated by metabolic forces?

[CleverNickname 1308]

1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

But is the rate of weight gain the same rate as someone who simply gives up a diet or exercise regimen, or is it accelerated by metabolic forces?

I think it raises some weird questions about free will and the brain. 

[Zone Read 299]

15 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

I think it raises some weird questions about free will and the brain. 

Yep.  Absolutely. We are not as in control as we think we are.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

On 6/7/2024 at 11:36 PM, Viper said:

Then how did 30% of Americans genetics change in the 80s and 90s?

Well, you said it yourself.  I think, similar to addiction, or other addictions, the brain rewires itself responsive to input.  Some people are genetically predisposed to rewire in a "bad" way in response to poor eating habits (or intake of other substances), others not so much.

In the case of food/weight/metabolism/obesity, it's doing something with the autonomous nervous system and other processes in response to empty calories, blood-sugar busters, and sedentariness as opposed to the simpler growing of pleasure/euphoria receptors in response to certain chemicals.

Nora Volkow is one of the leading researchers on brain alterations caused by intake of addictive substances.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_Volkow  It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to figure something similar happening with regard to food/caloric intake.

 

Edited June 9 by TwiceHorn

[markstanco 12571]

Sure it can. Not everyone who is overweight eats like shit and doesn't exercise.

And before you call me after ass, I feel skinny when I visit Texas. I feel fat in CO, though.

Fine. I’ll say it.

You are an after ass.

[Basil 754]

Well, you said it yourself.  I think, similar to addiction, or other addictions, the brain rewires itself responsive to input.  Some people are genetically predisposed to rewire in a "bad" way in response to poor eating habits (or intake of other substances), others not so much.
In the case of food/weight/metabolism/obesity, it's doing something with the autonomous nervous system and other processes in response to empty calories, blood-sugar busters, and sedentariness as opposed to the simpler growing of pleasure/euphoria receptors in response to certain chemicals.
Nora Volkow is one of the leading researchers on brain alterations caused by intake of addictive substances.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_Volkow  It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to figure something similar happening with regard to food/caloric intake.
 

I don’t know a thing about the chemistry or math but as an anecdotal point my body seriously does not like alcohol. I was a daily drinker for years and was 6’ 230 when I quit. About a month after that weight just started melting off and now I’m usually 165-175. In addition to the empty calories I suspect the alcohol slowed my metabolism.

[Bevo 13565]

I was listening to some ads for these drugs this weekend and feel that y'all need a heads up. I think all of them have the warning "May cause dizziness while spinning". Y'all be careful out there.

[chainsaw 9857]

8 hours ago, Bevo said:

I was listening to some ads for these drugs this weekend and feel that y'all need a heads up. I think all of them have the warning "May cause dizziness while spinning". Y'all be careful out there.

No need for spin class with these injections

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

On 6/5/2024 at 3:07 PM, Herbie Hancock said:

You can’t eyeball something and say “yeah that’s 6oz, or yeah that’s a half a cup”

Speak for yourself! Jk

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

On 6/7/2024 at 11:36 PM, Viper said:

Then how did 30% of Americans genetics change in the 80s and 90s?

Hormones in the meat! Idk?

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

On 6/8/2024 at 11:59 AM, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Just throwing out as well that more studies showing HIIT can, if used as main exercise, disrupt body rhythms and actually cause weight gain while keeping calories constant. So much info on weight loss not known, but these new drugs seem near 100% as being effective for all. Just another tool in process and one that has potential to really change large number of lives.

I saw some studies that say even if you’re not seeing weight loss with them they that they’re still seeing positives come out in terms of cardiovascular health and diabetic health. 

[CleverNickname 1308]

9 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I saw some studies that say even if you’re not seeing weight loss with them they that they’re still seeing positives come out in terms of cardiovascular health and diabetic health. 

And I'm a little worried I might get pregnant! 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

3 minutes ago, CleverNickname said:

And I'm a little worried I might get pregnant! 

No shit, we had a friend who was taking one of the brands of this stuff while on birth control and got pregnant before her wedding. 

[Parliament 14240]

Mentioned further upthread.  Food companies are making (gasp) more nutritious food to cater to people who don't eat much.  Sad that this is the only way to get them to make food that's actually healthy, but whatever.

https://www.fastcompany.com/91144170/nestle-coke-ozempic-wegovy

[CHIEF 5076]

Hadn't been in this particular forum for a while.

Mrs. CHIEF has been on a compounded version of Wegovy for about 6 months now. She drives to Benbrook and picks up a month's supply at a time. She was pre-diabetic, and she has been on blood pressure medicine for probably 25 years. So far, she has dropped 25 lbs., has had minimal problems, just the burps. She also takes Miralax twice a week. 

Her current dose is 1.7 mg, it is running her $175/month. Our doctor uses this one particular pharmacy that has made it really affordable, Perroni's compounding pharmacy. It is considerably cheaper than any of the compounding pharmacies in Granbury. Just a suggestion for anyone wanting to try it in the Ft. Worth area.

CHIEF

[chainsaw 9857]

21 hours ago, CHIEF said:

Hadn't been in this particular forum for a while.

Mrs. CHIEF has been on a compounded version of Wegovy for about 6 months now. She drives to Benbrook and picks up a month's supply at a time. She was pre-diabetic, and she has been on blood pressure medicine for probably 25 years. So far, she has dropped 25 lbs., has had minimal problems, just the burps. She also takes Miralax twice a week. 

Her current dose is 1.7 mg, it is running her $175/month. Our doctor uses this one particular pharmacy that has made it really affordable, Perroni's compounding pharmacy. It is considerably cheaper than any of the compounding pharmacies in Granbury. Just a suggestion for anyone wanting to try it in the Ft. Worth area.

CHIEF

Do you have to get it in person? Can it be mailed out?

[Herbie Hancock 7344]

Yes it can be mailed. Also, insurance not your doctor stipulate where you get your meds filled. Randol Mill pharmacy in Arlington and Revive RX Pharmacy out of Houston are high quality compounding pharmacies, so do yourself a favor and shop around for the best prices. Especially since 98% of insurance plans won’t cover it anyways

[CHIEF 5076]

Mrs. CHIEF's prescription isn't covered by insurance. The $175/month is considerably less than we found it anywhere locally, or online.

CHIEF

[markstanco 12571]

And I'm a little worried I might get pregnant! 

It’s cool, it’s 2024.

[RPM 26316]

 

[Herbie Hancock 7344]

Hard to overeat when you can’t find the food. Brilliant!

[C-Man 27185]

 

Saw this the other day.

[chainsaw 9857]

9 hours ago, RPM said:

 

Did they factor out the diabetics?

[Buzzrock 14902]

I’m down about 33 pounds in 12 weeks. For me the worst side effect has been insomnia: I fall asleep fine but tend to wake up around 2 or 3 and have trouble getting back to sleep. It’s worst right after the injection and gets better as the week goes on.