Drastic increase in student absences

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,414]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/29/us/chronic-absences.html no paywall but ads: https://archive.is/91mrf

Nationwide absences (edit: chronic absenteeism) have doubled to 26% from before the pandemic.  Quotes on the reasons

Quote

some families now go on ski trips during the school year, or take advantage of off-peak travel deals to vacation

often have to stay home to care for younger siblings... On days they miss the bus, their parents are busy working or do not have a car to take them to school.

teachers are still expected to post class work online, often nothing more than a skeleton version of an assignment, families incorrectly think students are keeping up

And more students are struggling with their mental health... Because many parents can work remotely, their children can also stay home.

 I can understand why parents aren't always worried about a kid missing a day of school but this feels like a drastic change where we don't know the outcome.

Edited April 3 by Nice Guy Eddie

[F250 28,691]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

some families now go on ski trips during the school year, or take advantage of off-peak travel deals to vacation

 

[Guest]

Hell, we have family coming in for the eclipse, so we're holding the kid out of school on Monday even though it's going to be cloudy. When all that winter sickness crud was running through school, seemed like a third of kids were in my kids class at one point.

Meanwhile, more people working from home (which means kids can stay home if they are feeling bad versus toughing it out).

Although, I see your chart is for missing 10% or more days. It's saying that a quarter of kids are missing more than 10% of school? WTF? That's like 18 days in Texas if I remember correctly. I was talking about kids missing an extra 2-3 days a year.

[Pancho 44,487]

*I work in higher ed

Here are the reasons we are seeing for student increases in absences and the thousands of students who just haven’t returned post pandemic:

 

- Need to work to provide for themselves

- Need to take care of family

- Mental health/anxiety/depression

- Thought they can just take the class online and it will be easier (a la Zoom class during the pandemic)

- Outside influences telling them there’s no need to go to college or for an education

- Faculty aren’t working with them when they explain their plights (I’ve reamed out a few faculty for this)

- Cost

- No idea what they want to do in life so they don’t do anything

 

The enrollments post-pandemic still haven’t recovered in both K-12 and higher ed. I can’t speak too much on it because it’s not my area of expertise (but I do deal with dual credit so I speak with high schools all the time), but something I’m noticing is the rise in homeschooling. This has been the case since around 2018.  

[RDCanecutter 26,284]

Fuck school.

[Blotto 23,434]

All part of the plan

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,414]

I'm not saying the good ol' school days were better, but I only recall missing 1-2 days of school (K-12) due to reason other than illness. It was my grandmother's death when I was in 3rd grade.  Admittedly I did have a problem pretending to be sick because I wanted a break.

As mentioned above, I regularly hear my friends talk about pulling their kids out of school for vacation because flights are cheaper on some days. Personally I could care less but that didn't seem allowable when I was in school. It was an unexcused absence that lowered your grade, and in theory could hold you back if it occurred too often.

[Pancho 44,487]

4 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Hell, we have family coming in for the eclipse, so we're holding the kid out of school on Monday even though it's going to be cloudy. When all that winter sickness crud was running through school, seemed like a third of kids were in my kids class at one point.

Meanwhile, more people working from home (which means kids can stay home if they are feeling bad versus toughing it out).

Although, I see your chart is for missing 10% or more days. It's saying that a quarter of kids are missing more than 10% of school? WTF? That's like 18 days in Texas if I remember correctly. I was talking about kids missing an extra 2-3 days a year.

in higher ed, we’re noticing students come to class for the first 6-7 weeks then just stop coming. This is nationwide. And they still expect a passing grade in the class even when they’ve missed the last 9-10 weeks of the course. 

[Pancho 44,487]

I had a student who told me her and her family were going to Europe on vacation and asked to take the exam when she returned. This was in October. I told her no as taking a vacation during the school year isn’t an excused absence in my class. She whined about how that was the time where the tickets were the cheapest so it was the only time they could book. I said “was it really THE ONLY TIME you could book? You don’t get special treatment because you consciously chose to take a vacation during the school year. You have to accept responsibility for your actions, that’s how life works.”

Ultimately, I let her make up her exam but with a 50% late penalty attached to the final grade. She made a 23. She dropped the class a week later. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,414]

4 minutes ago, Pancho said:

in higher ed, we’re noticing students come to class for the first 6-7 weeks then just stop coming. This is nationwide. And they still expect a passing grade in the class even when they’ve missed the last 9-10 weeks of the course. 

I assume that many kids got a pass for barely participating in the pandemic, and some parents noticed that the sky didn't fall. Of course being a dumbass kid with no ambition/plans is not really felt until a few years down the road after you can't earn a living. 

On @Pancho note about online influencers, I've watched a few clips where kids are being told by their peers, that school is a waste of time. While this peer is flashing money, cars, girls, etc. My viewing was other channels reacting poorly or laughing at these clips.

[SimonBolivar 10,932]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I had a student who told me her and her family were going to Europe on vacation and asked to take the exam when she returned. This was in October. I told her no as taking a vacation during the school year isn’t an excused absence in my class. She whined about how that was the time where the tickets were the cheapest so it was the only time they could book. I said “was it really THE ONLY TIME you could book? You don’t get special treatment because you consciously chose to take a vacation during the school year. You have to accept responsibility for your actions, that’s how life works.”

Ultimately, I let her make up her exam but with a 50% late penalty attached to the final grade. She made a 23. She dropped the class a week later. 

In undergrad I had flown to see my then gf on her birthday and had two midterms the next day after returning. Well of course there was a bomb threat, and I was pushed back missing both exams. One prof was understanding, but the other prof named after a cheap Mexican restaurant gave me a 0. I was able to salvage a C in the course but I was never able to personally recover from the shame and graduated with a 2.333 GPA. I often wonder where my life would have gone if it hadn't been for that one professor.

[Js1 85,115]

5 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Well of course there was a bomb threat

[RDCanecutter 26,284]

22 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

In undergrad I had flown to see my then gf on her birthday and had two midterms the next day after returning. Well of course there was a bomb threat, and I was pushed back missing both exams. One prof was understanding, but the other prof named after a cheap Mexican restaurant gave me a 0. I was able to salvage a C in the course but I was never able to personally recover from the shame and graduated with a 2.333 GPA. I often wonder where my life would have gone if it hadn't been for that one professor.

Professor Taco Bell kicks ass and takes names.

[The Dog 43,808]

34 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I had a student who told me her and her family were going to Europe on vacation and asked to take the exam when she returned. This was in October. I told her no as taking a vacation during the school year isn’t an excused absence in my class. She whined about how that was the time where the tickets were the cheapest so it was the only time they could book. I said “was it really THE ONLY TIME you could book? You don’t get special treatment because you consciously chose to take a vacation during the school year. You have to accept responsibility for your actions, that’s how life works.”

Ultimately, I let her make up her exam but with a 50% late penalty attached to the final grade. She made a 23. She dropped the class a week later. 

Yeah fuck that in college. You get the whole schedule at the start of the semester or quarter - plan accordingly.

Now grade school? Big fucking deal. We took our kids to Disney the week after MLK because it was cheap while in grade school. They also had good grades and we communicated with the teachers to make sure they were in the loop. 

Once they got to middle school that had to stop and we got to pay the big bucks like everyone else.  

[F250 28,691]

38 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

As mentioned above, I regularly hear my friends talk about pulling their kids out of school for vacation because flights are cheaper on some days. Personally I could care less but that didn't seem allowable when I was in school. It was an unexcused absence that lowered your grade, and in theory could hold you back if it occurred too often.

This has always been a thing. It was when I was a kid and I did it when my kids were in school. In elementary and middle school, by high school students have a lot more commitments that they can't miss out on.

An unexcused absence doesn't lower your grade.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,414]

6 minutes ago, F250 said:

This has always been a thing. It was when I was a kid and I did it when my kids were in school. In elementary and middle school, by high school students have a lot more commitments that they can't miss out on.

An unexcused absence doesn't lower your grade.

Wasn't a thing when I went to school in the 70s and 80s. Of course then again I went to a relatively poor school. Hell my parents did well, and our only annual vacation was 2 weeks in August.

And yes, unexcused absences definitely lowered your grade after a certain point. 

[Snake Diggity 4,614]

Not concerned about college kids as long as the schools don’t change degree standards.

For school aged kids, I’d want to see the breakdown of who (rich vs poor) and why (sick, vacation, etc.).  Generally speaking I don’t think rich kids missing school really hurts them.  Poor kids need to be in school as much as possible.

I think attitudes about work/school are changing pretty dramatically.  Some of that is healthy (getting away from the “live to work” mentality), some of it is not (removing the dignity of work and not holding people accountable for their behavior).  To a degree I think we are still unwinding the impact of the pandemic and it make take another 2-3 years to see the new normal and start to have data about the outcomes.

[F250 28,691]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Wasn't a thing when I went to school in the 70s and 80s. Of course then again I went to a relatively poor school. Hell my parents did well, and our only annual vacation was 2 weeks in August.

And yes, unexcused absences definitely lowered your grade after a certain point. 

An unexcused absence is an absence without a note from a parent or doctor. Missing several days for an out of town trip doesn't mean the student gets an unexcused absence.

Still, there is no grade penalty for an unexcused absence.

[F250 28,691]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

in higher ed, we’re noticing students come to class for the first 6-7 weeks then just stop coming. This is nationwide. And they still expect a passing grade in the class even when they’ve missed the last 9-10 weeks of the course. 

I used to stop regularly showing up for some classes after the first week. I only did this with electives that were low effort courses. Basic strategy was to show up and get the syllabus, take notes on the professors expectations, mark down important dates and then drop in occasionally in case anything changed.

There was a Comms class I took that was basically a media literacy course. As long as you read the Christian Science Monitor and the NYT you were prepped for the exam. I probably attended class 8 times. This was before online grades so not knowing my grade I dropped by the professors office.

After I introduced myself to the professor he said "ah, Mr. F250 you are the student that never shows up to retrieve your graded exams." As he was looking up my grade he made a snarky comment that indicated it would be a failing grade then said "hmm, you have a 92."

Me as I walked out of his office.

 

[Aqua Buddha 14,523]

[StassneyHorn 6,540]

There's alot of snowbirds in Arizona whose grandkids are always at the pool in the afternoon. I'd like to drink a beer in peace but they keep hopping out of the pool and into the hot tub and back into the pool and it's really annoying and I'd like that to stop immediately. Someone please study this

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2,799]

"School kids and their parents are a bunch of assholes, just making life harder for teachers." -- A Teacher

 

[tx 3 putt 76,409]

1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

In undergrad I had flown to see my then gf on her birthday and had two midterms the next day after returning. Well of course there was a bomb threat, and I was pushed back missing both exams. One prof was understanding, but the other prof named after a cheap Mexican restaurant gave me a 0. I was able to salvage a C in the course but I was never able to personally recover from the shame and graduated with a 2.333 GPA. I often wonder where my life would have gone if it hadn't been for that one professor.

Professor Casa Ole !

[texasdago 7,553]

Yeah, man we rarely missed schools.  Feels like teenagers today are a bunch of fragile pussies who feel the need to stay home when they have a tiny tummy ache.  Do I sound bitter?  Yeah, let me tell you about our house today.  I was yelling at my oldest to get his ass to school and my wife gave him a pass to stay home.  Absurd.  

[Dahobbs 17,449]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

Yeah fuck that in college. You get the whole schedule at the start of the semester or quarter - plan accordingly.

Now grade school? Big fucking deal. We took our kids to Disney the week after MLK because it was cheap while in grade school. They also had good grades and we communicated with the teachers to make sure they were in the loop. 

Once they got to middle school that had to stop and we got to pay the big bucks like everyone else.  

Yeah, this. We just went to Europe. Oldest (first grade) missed a couple of days after Spring break. I think he has missed something like 6 days this school year because of random trips we did. I don't see an issue with it at all. Obviously, once you're dealing with tests and quizzes and what not, you should schedule around those. Some days are ok to miss. Some days aren't. 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

I definitely took classes in college where I skipped all the classes and just showed up for quizzes/exams. Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?

[RDCanecutter 26,284]

May I suggest leaving school-age children in Europe for their education? They'll be able to skip all the want, it all comes down to one big exam instead of constant busy work. Plus, they'll learn how to fight.

[RDCanecutter 26,284]

Just now, BeardIP said:

And they will learn to ride Vespas at breakneck speed between cigarette breaks.

And they'll come back with their hot teacher and some baguettes on the back.

[Bodhi 1,111]

2 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Fuck school.

This.  Have you met 13-16 year olds, they are fucking awful.  Even worse in barely supervised groups.  

[The Dog 43,808]

7 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I definitely took classes in college where I skipped all the classes and just showed up for quizzes/exams. Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?

I know several who did this (at least for freshman/soph classes) where one attended lectures and took notes and the other would read the textbooks and take notes. then they'd share notes.

[hobbes2702 12,847]

13 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, this. We just went to Europe. Oldest (first grade) missed a couple of days after Spring break. I think he has missed something like 6 days this school year because of random trips we did. I don't see an issue with it at all. Obviously, once you're dealing with tests and quizzes and what not, you should schedule around those. Some days are ok to miss. Some days aren't. 

Kid missed 5 days last year for a trip to Hawaii because he was the ring bearer in a friends wedding. 
Not going to have them miss out on potential once in a lifetime things like that because they need to practice writing their spelling words.

[RDCanecutter 26,284]

5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I definitely took classes in college where I skipped all the classes and just showed up for quizzes/exams. Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?

I did that with a couple of third-year language classes. If you are going to make Spanish boring, I'll just go study Arabic on my own in the library.

My worst case was some Spanish Lit class taught by a Cuban Gentleman who'd been knocked down in the world getting away from Castro. I actually liked the dude, but it was early in the morning, the room was cold, the girls were unattractive, and we just took down notes and I didn't fucking FEEL like it, OK? So I disappeared.

Dude thought I had died when I showed up for the Midterm. There was no attendance policy, I had checked. I had done a color-coded study guide that let me ace it. Next class, even though I made an A, he informed me that he couldn't give me better than a B when all these soggy dumbasses (my words not his) had been dragging in regularly.

IDReallyGAF, B's get degrees, and I had busted the code. So I dragged in a few more times, all about respect yo. Maybe got a B after all. But I asked myself, Señor Cubanismo de Habana, I show up for you, doing an excellent imitation of how Cubans do School, and you're gonna go all Anglo-Saxon on me?

11 minutes ago, Bodhi said:

This.  Have you met 13-16 year olds, they are fucking awful.  Even worse in barely supervised groups.  

I wake up screamin like I'm back over there.

[Woland 729]

It’s a problem for secondary schools in Texas as state funding is tied to attendance.

[SimonBolivar 10,932]

24 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

And they'll come back with their hot teacher

Or an ugly one and they'll become the President of France.

Edited April 3 by SimonBolivar

[RDCanecutter 26,284]

4 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Or an ugly one and they'll become the President of France.

 

[Huckleberry 32,704]

11 minutes ago, Woland said:

It’s a problem for secondary schools in Texas as state funding is tied to attendance.

Which I mentioned to the front office when explaining why my son's district was stupid for not building in a day off for the eclipse. They have like 8 random days off throughout the year. 

But yeah, he's going to be sick Monday. 

[Foosters 17,734]

In college I stopped showing up to a class after about the second week. Walked in to take the final months later and after I sat down the professor looked at me and, in front of everyone, said "what are you doing here?" Then informed me that I was welcome to take the exam but I'd be getting an F in the class regardless. Put my pens back in my pocket and walked out the room. Parents were pretty thrilled with that one.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,145]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

Which I mentioned to the front office when explaining why my son's district was stupid for not building in a day off for the eclipse. They have like 8 random days off throughout the year. 

But yeah, he's going to be sick Monday. 

Our district is forcing the kids to have to learn about it together. Excused absence though with note.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,151]

2 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Fuck school.

Fuck school, I’m going pro. 

[Goredho 17,349]

Today's generation of students are simply apt pupils.

• Many of the adults around them view public schools as fatally flawed guvment bullshit
• Those adults elect other adults who view public schools similarly
• Those elected officials hire other adults to administer schools from a pool of people who view public schools similarly
• Those administrators ensure the school lives up to their expectation of being fatally flawed guvment bullshit

How are kids supposed to take school seriously when the adults around them don't?

Edited April 3 by Goredho

[Saint Tacky 1,610]

My oldest receives two days of excused absences from her high school for college visits. We had to cut a college visit short yesterday and haul ass home because her softball coach replied to her email that if she missed practice Tuesday afternoon he couldn't guarantee that she'd start or play this Friday - on Senior Night.

[Js1 85,115]

1 minute ago, Goredho said:

Today's generation of students are simply apt pupils.

• Many of the adults around them view public schools as fatally flawed guvment bullshit
• Those adults elect other adults who view public schools similarly
• Those elected officials hire other adults to administer schools from a pool of people who view public schools similarly
• Those administrators ensure the school lives up to their expectation of being fatally flawed guvment bullshit

How are kids supposed to take school seriously when the adults around them don't?

This is a good post. Self perpetuating cycle led by one political party trying to destroy education because they need dumbfucks to vote for them 

[Aqua Buddha 14,523]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Today's generation of students are simply apt pupils.

• Many of the adults around them view public schools as fatally flawed guvment bullshit
• Those adults elect other adults who view public schools similarly
• Those elected officials hire other adults to administer schools from a pool of people who view public schools similarly
• Those administrators ensure the school lives up to their expectation of being fatally flawed guvment bullshit

How are kids supposed to take school seriously when the adults around them don't?

The kids can just stay at home and "do their own research."

[F250 28,691]

53 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

I don't know how people do it. I applaud the ability.

I'm an old man. Like, I actually remember physical slam tables outside of the West Mall. Like, I actually remember telephone registration.

That said, I still will randomly get nightmares where I am in school and have forgotten I registered for a class and have been missing them. I wake up relieved I'm not failing a random class I took 25+ years ago.

That's one of my most common reoccurring dreams and they are stressful. The other common one is about me needing to get ready for a h.s. football game that is about to start but I realize I am too old to play.

[TexArcher 37,524]

11 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Today's generation of students are simply apt pupils.

• Many of the adults around them view public schools as fatally flawed guvment bullshit
• Those adults elect other adults who view public schools similarly
• Those elected officials hire other adults to administer schools from a pool of people who view public schools similarly
• Those administrators ensure the school lives up to their expectation of being fatally flawed guvment bullshit

How are kids supposed to take school seriously when the adults around them don't?

All of this is true.

I think it also needs to be said that we have a lazy generation of parents raising a lazy generation of kids, and they've all got a built-in excuse, so of course they're using it.

And it may not be a popular opinion, but depression, anxiety, insecurity, addiction, and other problems didn't start 10 to 15 years ago.  It's good that these things are getting more attention now, truly, but this is the other side of that coin.  Everybody's got an easy out.  Powering through difficulties is a lost art.  

Edited April 3 by TexArcher

[immamac 42,521]

3 hours ago, Pancho said:

I had a student who told me her and her family were going to Europe on vacation and asked to take the exam when she returned. This was in October. I told her no as taking a vacation during the school year isn’t an excused absence in my class. She whined about how that was the time where the tickets were the cheapest so it was the only time they could book. I said “was it really THE ONLY TIME you could book? You don’t get special treatment because you consciously chose to take a vacation during the school year. You have to accept responsibility for your actions, that’s how life works.”

Ultimately, I let her make up her exam but with a 50% late penalty attached to the final grade. She made a 23. She dropped the class a week later. 

Would you have let her take the exam early with no penalty? 

[F250 28,691]

10 minutes ago, Saint Tacky said:

My oldest receives two days of excused absences from her high school for college visits. We had to cut a college visit short yesterday and haul ass home because her softball coach replied to her email that if she missed practice Tuesday afternoon he couldn't guarantee that she'd start or play this Friday - on Senior Night.

I remember when my oldest son was sick his sophomore year in high school during the winter football off-season. He stayed home from school and then asked for a ride to be dropped off for his football class then picked up afterwards. He started to explain but I told him "Yeah, I've done that myself. I'll take you."

 

[DixonHur 11,228]

10 minutes ago, immamac said:

Would you have let her take the exam early with no penalty? 

And have her sell the test questions?  

That's a no for me, dog.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,049]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Wasn't a thing when I went to school...

It wasn't for me either, and the rich students skied and stuff over the breaks/holidays. School was free care for my folks and if we were out of school when I was small then my grandmother provided care but once I was old enough, then I was either taken to work with one of my parents and they found work for me to do (my older brother had a real job). One spring break towards the end of the "vacation" I wasn't feeling so hot and got in trouble for laying around so washed all the cars, swept off the driveway, and did all the outside work they usually had to spend a weekend day doing. At lunchtime was sitting with my dad who had stopped home to check on me and he remarked that I looked puny and I said, 'well, it hurts when I breathe.' Turns out I had pneumonia in both lungs and missed several days of school because I was in the hospital. But at least the cars were clean!

Unless they had/have a fever, our kiddos were/are in school.

To each their own.

[immamac 42,521]

8 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

And have her sell the test questions?  

That's a no for me, dog.

man, I don't even think of stuff like this. lol