Drastic increase in student absences

[Pancho 44487]

22 minutes ago, immamac said:

Would you have let her take the exam early with no penalty? 

For a family vacation? Nope. You say yes to this, then I have approve every other similar request coming in after that.

For a college function, medical reason, religious reason, military reason, or government duty? Yes—but I made exceptions on a case by case basis. It also comes with knowing the student and their credibility. 

I’ve let students take exams (regular or finals) or do speeches early a few times when I taught—one was pregnant and was having major complications (she did her exams and speech in the hospital bed), one student had to get chemo treatments and a few times it was during my class time, one student got a really good job with an oil company and they needed him to start a certain day, and one student got called to Active Duty (he was scared and started crying in front of me…felt really bad. He struggled on the major speech but was a great student. Should have gotten a B in the class but I gave him an A). 

 

The student who got chemo during my class, well I found out the next semester she passed over the summer. That was my first. I was really, really in shock for a few days. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

22 minutes ago, immamac said:

Would you have let her take the exam early with no penalty? 

 

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

And have her sell the test questions?  

That's a no for me, dog.

I know of a similar story that occurred with an Astronomy 301 final in the late 80s. 

[RDCanecutter 26284]

8 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

And have her sell the test questions?  

That's a no for me, dog.

They're cheating the fuck away no matter what, giving one exam just makes it easy. Check into Chegg, it's full of everybody's tests.

Mrs. Canecutter uses a program that spits out similar chemistry problems but they all have different variables. She dances on their academic graves when they copy answers from the wrong test.

Once, early in my first Hell Job (teaching 9th graders with no training) I laid a whammy on their cheating ways. I gave them a multiple-choice test that appeared to be two versions- one had a cartoon dog at the top, the other had a cartoon flower. There were actually 4 versions that I had collated so when I handed them out, nobody had the same version as anybody near them. All answers were similar length. Told em not to copy.

BWAHAHAHAHAH

Got back A's, B's, and a shit-load of low F's. "Why did I get it wrong when Derek got it right?" "You had two different answers. Let's go over why this answer was the one."

Did the same thing a couple of times more until they learned that Mr. Canecutter was evil and crazy. Then I would just make one version, but with 4 different pictures at the top. Maybe somebody clued in. But that's OK, they were thinking.

[Orale 1087]

3 hours ago, Pancho said:

in higher ed, we’re noticing students come to class for the first 6-7 weeks then just stop coming. This is nationwide. And they still expect a passing grade in the class even when they’ve missed the last 9-10 weeks of the course. 

This may be addressed further down thread, ignore if so. But are these kids that are missing 10 weeks or whatever still turning in assignments and taking/passing tests? 

[Goredho 17349]

44 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The kids can just stay at home and "do their own research."

If the internet had existed and been as available as it is today, I'd have stayed at home and done plenty of health/sex ed research.

[RDCanecutter 26284]

10 minutes ago, Pancho said:

For a family vacation? Nope. You say yes to this, then I have approve every other similar request coming in after that.

Something you do for one, you have to do for the next thousand who ask.

Another thing a rookie teacher will learn is that students you helped will Stab You In The Back by telling other professors or admin, often in an aggressive way, that you bent a rule so why won't they. Wormy little fuckers.

I did allow one student from my French class to disappear with full credit, because she was going to France for a month with her mom and daughter after her husband had moved in with his mistress. It was Mexico, and I felt that she needed a break.

Veterans, especially combat veterans get extra slack in my classes. They seldom need it, but if they do, screw the rules.

Also, I think every SLO (Student Learning Outcome) I ever wrote has been an obvious fake. But they all made Admin happy.

[Orale 1087]

2 hours ago, BeardIP said:

I travel a lot for work and once a semester I'll take a day off before or after meetings and let one of my teenagers tag along if it's somewhere cool (NYC, Washington D.C., Chicago, etc.) that we can do some bonding and cultural education (e.g. museum, historical sites, general cultural value, and yes, out of town sports).

I just email the school and vaguely say "So and so has to be in XYZ City on Dates A and B-- can we get some of his school work so he/she doesn't fall too far behind, etc."

My dad used to take me out of school for the occasional business trip out of town. I would wander whatever city alone while he was in a meeting and see the sights. In hindsight it was invaluable for developing self-reliance and independence that can't really be taught in school. 

[Sawbonz 27439]

Public school high school teachers in general don’t give a fuck and neither do the students by and large. This seems to be a post pandemic phenomenon. My kids are in IB classes and rarely have homework or projects. My eldest who is 4 years ahead always had an hour or more each night. There has been close to 100% turnover of the IB teachers. If they weren’t almost done I’d move them to private and I am adamantly opposed to private schools

 

eta there is a tremendous amount of teacher absenteeism as well. Teachers will be gone for a week or more for “personal“ reasons. I just can’t imagine so many teachers can have health problems that require them to miss substantial blocks of school. And the substitutes these days do absolutely nothing, not even just following the lesson plan from the teacher. Half the time, if it’s an afternoon class, the sub will just tell them they can leave

Edited April 3 by Sawbonz

[SydneyCarton 47885]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Public school high school teachers in general don’t give a fuck and neither do the students by and large. This seems to be a post pandemic phenomenon. My kids are in IB classes and rarely have homework or projects. My eldest who is 4 years ahead always has an hour or more. There has been close to 100% turnover of the IB teachers. If they weren’t almost done I’d move them to private and I am adamantly opposed to private schools

 

eta there is a tremendous amount of teacher absenteeism as well. Teachers will be gone for a week or more for “personal“ reasons. I just can’t imagine so many teachers can have health problems that require them to miss substantial blocks of school. And the substitutes these days do absolutely nothing, not even just following the lesson plan from the teacher. Half the time, if it’s an afternoon class, the sub will just tell them they can leave

I used to think I was opposed to private schools. And I'm certainly opposed to gutting public education for vouchers. But it's hard to hate private schools, good ones, when you see just how shitty public education has become, how hard they've worked to lower the quality of teachers, and make sure the good ones who are attacked by their own admiistratoin and the parents of the children, and underpaid to boot. It's gone from being a calling to a job that the worst people get who can't find other jobs, and the good ones are driven away because they're underpaid and their own principles and superintendents actively work against the teachers. 

We let this shit happen. 

[Sbbruin 21738]

My daughter's private HS implemented anything more than 7 missed days in a semester and you have to make up classes in the summer.  Extenuating circumstances, like Covid or other major illness, excepted.  They were just having too many absences.

[immamac 42521]

[Incredulity 11555]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Public school high school teachers in general don’t give a fuck and neither do the students by and large. This seems to be a post pandemic phenomenon.

It's not just schools.  Most businesses I have dealt with over the last 4 years are completely out of fucks to give.  Honestly, I would say its gotten somewhat better over the last 6 months, or maybe I am just adjusting.

 

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I definitely took classes in college where I skipped all the classes and just showed up for quizzes/exams. Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?

All of med school?  Yes

Sue me, bro (please don’t).  

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

9 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

My daughter's private HS implemented anything more than 7 missed days in a semester and you have to make up classes in the summer.  Extenuating circumstances, like Covid or other major illness, excepted.  They were just having too many absences.

My COO kid’s fancy dumbass private school implemented a 2 week spring break.  

Nobody does shit anymore.  

[Goredho 17349]

8 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

It's not just schools.  Most businesses I have dealt with over the last 4 years are completely out of fucks to give.  Honestly, I would say its gotten somewhat better over the last 6 months, or maybe I am just adjusting.

 

Yeah, I see a lot more general workplace apathy from the onset of covid on.  Great resignation, quiet quitting, etc...

[hayden_horn 11360]

i think covid showed us how bullshit our social structure really is

my kids are absent all the time. monday they didn't feel like going for different reasons but basically they were tired from helping try to entertain cousins at easter. 

why do i give a fuck? unexcused absences mean fuckall any longer. 

it's sometimes better for them to just have a day than have the fight. 

i am sure this will be a super popular opinion around here and before you jump on me , know my wife is in public education and I'm a huge supporter of properly executed public schooling. 

[Sawbonz 27439]

15 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I used to think I was opposed to private schools. And I'm certainly opposed to gutting public education for vouchers. But it's hard to hate private schools, good ones, when you see just how shitty public education has become, how hard they've worked to lower the quality of teachers, and make sure the good ones who are attacked by their own admiistratoin and the parents of the children, and underpaid to boot. It's gone from being a calling to a job that the worst people get who can't find other jobs, and the good ones are driven away because they're underpaid and their own principles and superintendents actively work against the teachers. 

We let this shit happen. 

In our case it has nothing to do with the principals and superintendents and salaries are pretty good imo starting >50K per year. 
 

 

[immamac 42521]

apathy in general is setting in at a societal level. If it isn't quick brain tingles it's just not happening. People can't be bothered to read anymore, can't be bothered to do anything. 

I seriously have no idea what people think they are doing to be productive or additive to society with their work, school feels the same way - why the fuck does it actually take a full semester to learn what they are trying to teach? I don't think it does, it has more to do with kids need to go somewhere that is away from their parents than it is about the curriculum needing that much time to set in. The access to information and ability to test for comprehension is such a short cycle now that traditional school learning is actually pretty fucking stupid at this point if you have a competent person driving accountability and outcome based learning. 

 

[SydneyCarton 47885]

7 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, I see a lot more general workplace apathy from the onset of covid on.  Great resignation, quiet quitting, etc...

It's almost like there's a mental health crisis and people have consciously or subconsciously realized that the informal contract that used to exist between employer and employee has, in a majority of cases, been abandoned by one side of the partnership. 

[Native Horn 3492]

2 hours ago, F250 said:

I used to stop regularly showing up for some classes after the first week. I only did this with electives that were low effort courses. Basic strategy was to show up and get the syllabus, take notes on the professors expectations, mark down important dates and then drop in occasionally in case anything changed.

There was a Comms class I took that was basically a media literacy course. As long as you read the Christian Science Monitor and the NYT you were prepped for the exam. I probably attended class 8 times. This was before online grades so not knowing my grade I dropped by the professors office.

After I introduced myself to the professor he said "ah, Mr. F250 you are the student that never shows up to retrieve your graded exams." As he was looking up my grade he made a snarky comment that indicated it would be a failing grade then said "hmm, you have a 92."

Me as I walked out of his office.

 

Paradigm Notes ftw.  (Class of 1990)

[SimonBolivar 10932]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

apathy in general is setting in at a societal level. If it isn't quick brain tingles it's just not happening. People can't be bothered to read anymore, can't be bothered to do anything. 

I seriously have no idea what people think they are doing to be productive or additive to society with their work, school feels the same way - why the fuck does it actually take a full semester to learn what they are trying to teach? I don't think it does, it has more to do with kids need to go somewhere that is away from their parents than it is about the curriculum needing that much time to set in. The access to information and ability to test for comprehension is such a short cycle now that traditional school learning is actually pretty fucking stupid at this point if you have a competent person driving accountability and outcome based learning. 

 

Depends on what you're learning of course. I needed a basic level of SQL for a job interview recently and learned that shit in a day on Coursera to the ability it needed. Taking and paying for a legit course that would have been a massive waste of time/resources. For my MA in history, it was absolutely necessary to spread out the info as books can be fucking long even with predatory reading and writing a thesis takes a shit ton of time.

 

...Of course I'm not sure anyone needs an MA in history, or is it that everyone does?

[Goredho 17349]

8 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i think covid showed us how bullshit our social structure really is

my kids are absent all the time. monday they didn't feel like going for different reasons but basically they were tired from helping try to entertain cousins at easter. 

why do i give a fuck? unexcused absences mean fuckall any longer. 

it's sometimes better for them to just have a day than have the fight. 

i am sure this will be a super popular opinion around here and before you jump on me , know my wife is in public education and I'm a huge supporter of properly executed public schooling. 

I don't think you are wrong at all.  Some things I have seen people struggling with since the onset of covid (age immaterial):

• Why the fuck do I need to take a shower today?
• Why the fuck do I need to brush my teeth today?
• Why the fuck do I need to put on clean clothes today?
• Why the fuck do I need to go to school/work/whatever today?
• Why the fuck do I even need to get out of bed today?
• Why the fuck am I doing anything when life is just a finite state machine of eat, shit, work, eat, work, eat, fuck around, sleep, repeat N times until you die?

[hayden_horn 11360]

11 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

It's almost like there's a mental health crisis and people have consciously or subconsciously realized that the informal contract that used to exist between employer and employee has, in a majority of cases, been abandoned by one side of the partnership. 

i was fired last year for being sad and anxious. employers will put all kinds of mental health wellness bullshit in their messaging but god help you if you fucking admit it. they will take a look of your state of employment, pip you and fire you. thanks texas. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I don't think you are wrong at all.  Some things I have seen people struggling with since the onset of covid (age immaterial):

• Why the fuck do I need to take a shower today?
• Why the fuck do I need to brush my teeth today?
• Why the fuck do I need to put on clean clothes today?
• Why the fuck do I need to go to school/work/whatever today?
• Why the fuck do I even need to get out of bed today?
• Why the fuck am I doing anything when life is just a finite state machine of eat, shit, work, eat, work, eat, fuck around, sleep, repeat N times until you die?

yeah. thats called depression and it can be hard as hell to try and face it head on and honestly. and emasculating. and a whole host of other unhelpful things.

 

 

[Francisco 2.0 32343]

There's a lot of ills in public education, but most of them are inflicted by (or can be traced to) decisions made by the government of the state in which they reside.

Absolutely, there are outstanding private schools---but the whole rush for vouchers nationwide (especially in red states) has created a booming private school ecosystem where it's just a money grab without accountability, but "school choice".

Private schools can be great, but for that whole private thing (fuck the special needs kids or the handicapped and bus them? fuck you, get them here yourself).  But the other hidden feature of private schools:  no accountability on attendance, testing, whatnot.   I'd be interested to know if privates have higher chronic absenteeism as well; I'm guessing that some of the privates really don't give a shit, because they have the money in hand anyway.

My kids attend a smallish public school (almost 3000 students K-12).  Going off of their district state report card, the district averaged 90% daily attendance for the 2022-23 school year, all grades combined.  Looking back to the 18-19 school year, the attendance averaged 91% daily, so Covid really didn't make a large difference.  

It's an interesting study; chronic absenteeism spans all ethnicities, economic groups, etc but in the kids district, there aren't a lot of wealthy families.  I'm of the mindset that in a small bedroom community where everyone has to work to get by, the kids have to attend school.    And one factor that will increase school attendance---participation in extracurricular activities.  Obviously, you can't force students to participate, but those districts that have a high percentage of students who do participate in all likelihood have a lower chronic absenteeism rate.

 

Edited April 3 by Francisco 2.0

[hayden_horn 11360]

god is still hard to talk about. my ears are ringing just posting about it

one day I'll make a thread about it when i have time

[gernblansten 3188]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

I’ve let students take exams (regular or finals) or do speeches early a few times when I taught—one was pregnant and was having major complications (she did her exams and speech in the hospital bed), one student had to get chemo treatments and a few times it was during my class time, one student got a really good job with an oil company and they needed him to start a certain day, and one student got called to Active Duty (he was scared and started crying in front of me…felt really bad. He struggled on the major speech but was a great student. Should have gotten a B in the class but I gave him an A). 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

5 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

- No idea what they want to do in life so they don’t do anything

 

Sounds like 18-20 year old me.  And I skipped every class I thought I could get away with skipping.

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Wasn't a thing when I went to school in the 70s and 80s. Of course then again I went to a relatively poor school. Hell my parents did well, and our only annual vacation was 2 weeks in August.

And yes, unexcused absences definitely lowered your grade after a certain point. 

Yeah back then if you didn't have a doctor's note after missing more than one day, you got 0's for any homework or tests that were assigned while you were gone.  It was fucking brutal.  On top of that, my dad was a pharmacist, so I had to be sick as a dog to get out of going to school altogether.  I knew I could get away with having an upset stomach and going home at lunch 3 or 4 times a year, but that's as much as I was ever going to get.

[Dahobbs 17449]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

There's a lot of ills in public education, but most of them are inflicted by (or can be traced to) decisions made by the government of the state in which they reside.

Absolutely, there are outstanding private schools---but the whole rush for vouchers nationwide (especially in red states) has created a booming private school ecosystem where it's just a money grab without accountability, but "school choice".

Private schools can be great, but for that whole private thing (fuck the special needs kids or the handicapped and bus them? fuck you, get them here yourself).  But the other hidden feature of private schools:  no accountability on attendance, testing, whatnot.   I'd be interested to know if privates have higher chronic absenteeism as well; I'm guessing that some of the privates really don't give a shit, because they have the money in hand anyway.

My kids attend a smallish public school (almost 3000 students K-12).  Going off of their district state report card, the district averaged 90% daily attendance for the 2022-23 school year, all grades combined.  Looking back to the 18-19 school year, the attendance averaged 91% daily, so Covid really didn't make a large difference.  

It's an interesting study; chronic absenteeism spans all ethnicities, economic groups, etc but in the kids district, there aren't a lot of wealthy families.  I'm of the mindset that in a small bedroom community where everyone has to work to get by, the kids have to attend school.    And one factor that will increase school attendance---participation in extracurricular activities.  Obviously, you can't force students to participate, but those districts that have a high percentage of students who do participate in all likelihood have a lower chronic absenteeism rate.

 

I attended good private schools for most of my childhood (except for 3 years at Oakhill Elementary). My wife also attended private school except in small town Texas. Let's just say us dating became eye-opening for her on things like evolution, history, etc. Were they absolutely terrible schools? Probably not. Were they indoctrinating kids? Absolutely.  My son is at an excellent public school in Houston (dual-language immersion program), but we are having to fight it keep it as amazing as it is thanks to Texas politics. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

apathy in general is setting in at a societal level. If it isn't quick brain tingles it's just not happening. People can't be bothered to read anymore, can't be bothered to do anything. 

I seriously have no idea what people think they are doing to be productive or additive to society with their work, school feels the same way - why the fuck does it actually take a full semester to learn what they are trying to teach? I don't think it does, it has more to do with kids need to go somewhere that is away from their parents than it is about the curriculum needing that much time to set in. The access to information and ability to test for comprehension is such a short cycle now that traditional school learning is actually pretty fucking stupid at this point if you have a competent person driving accountability and outcome based learning. 

 

I agree with this. The structure for higher education is outdated. There is way too much unneeded shit for most degrees. You do not need a language credit for a biology degree. You don’t need a Texas History credit either. Higher education costs too much anyway, it doesn’t need to be weighted down with extra bullshit. 

And attendance requirements are mostly unnecessary. I had an upper level English teacher try and fail me due to attendance requirements. I had an A and was one of 3 people that ever participated in class discussion. I missed 5 classes and the professor wanted to fail me. But as long as you shows up and slept, that was okay. Idiocy. 

[SydneyCarton 47885]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I agree with this. The structure for higher education is outdated. There is way too much unneeded shit for most degrees. You do not need a language credit for a biology degree. You don’t need a Texas History credit either. Higher education costs too much anyway, it doesn’t need to be weighted down with extra bullshit. 

And attendance requirements are mostly unnecessary. I had an upper level English teacher try and fail me due to attendance requirements. I had an A and was one of 3 people that ever participated in class discussion. I missed 5 classes and the professor wanted to fail me. But as long as you shows up and slept, that was okay. Idiocy. 

I may be a minority , but I'm fine with majors having to take other kinds of classes outside their discipline becuase I believe it creates well rounded knowledge in people, and I don't think that stops after HS. Ive gotten a lot of utility out of my various classes I took that weren't based on my main degree. 

[Underdog 28457]

I missed so much school kids thought my last name was Truant. A habit I’m so glad Jr didn’t inherit. 

[Sbbruin 21738]

1 minute ago, Underdog said:

I missed so much school kids thought my last name was Truant. A habit I’m so glad Jr didn’t inherit. 

[Js1 85115]

17 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I may be a minority , but I'm fine with majors having to take other kinds of classes outside their discipline becuase I believe it creates well rounded knowledge in people, and I don't think that stops after HS. Ive gotten a lot of utility out of my various classes I took that weren't based on my main degree. 

Same.  It's about a well rounded education, not just 4 years on your degree.  Engineers need to learn how to write, liberal arts majors should know math and god forbid a finance kid has an appreciation for art or theater. 

[SydneyCarton 47885]

Just now, Js1 said:

Same.  It's about a well rounded education, not just 4 years on your degree.  Engineers need to learn how to write, liberal arts majors should know math and god forbid a finance kid has an appreciation for art or theater. 

Engineer's electives should almost 100% be spent on some equivalent form of societal ettiquite class where they have to practice talking to other human beings, mainting conversation while also maintaining eye contact, maybe some general hygeine instruction, chewing with their mouths close, etc etc. 

/ducks

[Sbbruin 21738]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Engineer's electives should almost 100% be spent on some equivalent form of societal ettiquite class where they have to practice talking to other human beings, mainting conversation while also maintaining eye contact, maybe some general hygeine instruction, chewing with their mouths close, etc etc. 

/ducks

[Incredulity 11555]

tangentially to above.

Nothing is quite as entertaining when a company decides that their engineering/design/technical staff needs to get out into the real world so they implement some sort of sales tag-along program.  Bunch of smooth talkers those engineers.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

apathy in general is setting in at a societal level. If it isn't quick brain tingles it's just not happening. People can't be bothered to read anymore, can't be bothered to do anything. 

I seriously have no idea what people think they are doing to be productive or additive to society with their work, school feels the same way - why the fuck does it actually take a full semester to learn what they are trying to teach? I don't think it does, it has more to do with kids need to go somewhere that is away from their parents than it is about the curriculum needing that much time to set in. The access to information and ability to test for comprehension is such a short cycle now that traditional school learning is actually pretty fucking stupid at this point if you have a competent person driving accountability and outcome based learning. 

 

I fail to comprehend where some of these high school kids are going to land in the future in terms of a job or career, but as a 55 year old without kids, I guess it's not really my problem. I do think we've been failing our kids the last couple of decades and letting them slide in school doesn't seem to be a good solution. If someone has a good solution, I'm happy to do my part including higher taxes if it actually helps the future.

I understand the opinion that some knowledge/info workers don't need an university degree full of unnecessary classes, but a degree represents more than sum of the individual classes. It shows completion of a long term commitment. For some of us, that commitment was shaky at times but we got through it. Personally I wouldn't hire someone today that showed up with a handful of online classes and a certification that may or may not have value.

[mdmost 42865]

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i think covid showed us how bullshit our social structure really is

my kids are absent all the time. monday they didn't feel like going for different reasons but basically they were tired from helping try to entertain cousins at easter. 

why do i give a fuck? unexcused absences mean fuckall any longer. 

it's sometimes better for them to just have a day than have the fight. 

i am sure this will be a super popular opinion around here and before you jump on me , know my wife is in public education and I'm a huge supporter of properly executed public schooling. 

I mean you say this but as a dad of a kid who had to miss significant parts of the first semester of school last year due to a medical issue, I had to do a shitload of extra work to keep her both off truancy reports and credit for attendance efforts so her schoolwork would actually be accepted and she could continue in her grade level. She even got dinged for actual excused medical absences that she had valid reasons for missing classes/days of school in the spring semester based on how much time she missed in the fall. I was possibly facing appearing before a truancy court if the school didn't step in to help us out. This is Dallas ISD so maybe Austin doesn't give a shit but they definitely do here. 

Maybe my kids schools are different but there's a ton of work and missing a day can be really hard in terms of falling behind for my older one. You can only make up stuff in after school sessions for tutoring. If you miss a test, you can make that up but it can then be an unexcused absence for the class you're missing to do it. If she doesn't have a note, she can't make up the tests, homework, or gym classes. We learned that the hard way this fall. Granted, this is a magnet school so maybe that's more the reason but my older one never had this much work before getting high school. If anything, middle school did not prepare her in any way for all of this. 

Edited April 3 by mdmost

[RDCanecutter 26284]

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i was fired last year for being sad and anxious. employers will put all kinds of mental health wellness bullshit in their messaging but god help you if you fucking admit it. they will take a look of your state of employment, pip you and fire you. thanks texas. 

That sucks. Fuck those bastards.

[alincoln 2364]

High level sports are also to blame.  College showcases and elite tournaments now generally start play on Friday which requires travel on Thursday.  There are usually at least 5 of these type of events a school year for the top athletes who want to play in college.

[RDCanecutter 26284]

Hey, since AI can and will do everything we used to have to study for, what do y'all think about just redefining college away from anything practical, just a social class bump where 19-year-olds can mingle and share a tribal identity?

I'd still include a few courses just so they have to try to function after closing the bar. My choices are Latin, Fencing, and Horseback Riding. Discuss.

[F250 28691]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I agree with this. The structure for higher education is outdated. There is way too much unneeded shit for most degrees. You do not need a language credit for a biology degree. You don’t need a Texas History credit either. Higher education costs too much anyway, it doesn’t need to be weighted down with extra bullshit. 

And attendance requirements are mostly unnecessary. I had an upper level English teacher try and fail me due to attendance requirements. I had an A and was one of 3 people that ever participated in class discussion. I missed 5 classes and the professor wanted to fail me. But as long as you shows up and slept, that was okay. Idiocy. 

I strongly disagree. A good portion of our population thinks George Washington and Jesus turned the tide during the Battle of the Alamo or think Spain is located in Central America. The last thing our society needs is a dumbing down of the college educated.

[Macanudo 12928]

I can look at absences from a couple of different personal angles:

1.  My own.   I graduated from UT in 1994.   I almost always attended class and the times that I didn't were 100% tied to being hungover or trying to get out of town on Th/F.   In high school, I might have missed 1-2 days a year and that was it.   

2.  My kids.  The last Macanudoette is a senior in high school.   She has missed more days this year than I missed in all of high school.  And she likes school.   But she uses her period as an excuse each month to stay home for a day.   I don't get them so I'm not going to judge.  

3.  My family experience.  I have 3 grade school teachers in my immediate family.   They all comment on how common it is for kids to miss all the time.   There is the mix of chronically sick, early out on Friday for family stuff/trips, etc.   A biggie is the number of kids who get taken out on the Friday before holiday/break weeks.   Humble ISD gets a week off in October, at Thanksgiving, in February and in March.  That goes along with two weeks at Christmas.  Some of these kids aren't in school on those Fridays for each break.   That's 5 times right there.

4.  My (very short) experience as a sub.  I've been subbing in middle and high school since January.  Every class has 3-5 kids out each day.  I was in a class on the Friday before Spring Break and there were probably 6-8 out of each class.  

There is a lot at play and most of it has been covered by earlier:

- Lack of emphasis at the family level on attendance.

- COVID did change things to a degree

- Ambivalence from the schools.   This is kind of surprising because they get their funding based on attendance.

- Teacher apathy.  I completely understand this.  Students don't care, and while our teachers thought the same thing, each generation it is getting worse IMO.  

- Societal apathy.   I 100% completely agree that a large number of people have out that the corporate world sucks.   Executive greed and shitty management makes adult give up too.   Kids see there parents slog it out, put in a ton of hours and work very hard only to struggle to makes ends meet and/or get laid off during a downsizing.  My kids have seen this with me.  I worked my ass off at my prior job and then got laid off last year.   They don't know the comp numbers but the only years I got more than a 3.5% raise was when I got promoted in 2013, 2014 and 2016.  Every other year it was 2.5-3.5%.  And that was always at or above the the base level at the company.  

- Teacher pay sucks ass.   In some places, they are making OK money.  People will point out that "they get off all that time."   Sure, they do get a lot of time off both during the school year and in the summer.   But the dedicated ones put in way more than 8 hours a day.   Even as a sub I'm doing about 8 hours on campus with 20-30 minutes to eat.   Full time (dedicated) teachers spend a lot of time after school and on the weekends doing shit.  

- Ambivalence from kids about the need for an education, especially a college degree.   We've devalued the college experience and made having one fairly superfluous.  

The absence problem is just a symptom of larger problems in our society. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

15 minutes ago, F250 said:

I strongly disagree. A good portion of our population thinks George Washington and Jesus turned the tide during the Battle of the Alamo or think Spain is located in Central America. The last thing our society needs is a dumbing down of the college educated.

Our society is fucked anyway. It’s beyond dumb. Requiring people to learn Texas history isn’t going to change that. Higher education has a cost issue. Attendance is a symptom, not the problem. I also believe a well rounded education is a good thing, but I believe people should have more choice in their degree requirements outside core. 

Edited April 3 by Neonmoon

[F250 28691]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Our society is fucked anyway. It’s beyond dumb. Requiring people to Texas history isn’t going to change that. Higher education has a cost issue. Attendance is a symptom, not the problem. I also believe a well rounded education is a good thing, but I believe people should have more choice in their degree requirements outside core. 

Nah, fuck that. People can attend a vocational school or aggy if they want to live in ignorance but still learn a trade.

[hayden_horn 11360]

also you know what happens when your kid is in serious crisis and you make them endure it anyways and go to school and suck it up?

i remember when that happened when i was a kid and I'm probably still suffering somehow from that experience. also i learned nothing in school those days because fuck you i dont want to be here or need to be here. i guess my dad would have called that building character but it was pretty much bullshit

i did learn how to be bitter and anxious and have a lot of resentment towards my parents though so i got that out of it. Sorry if i don't want to be the biggest asshole in my kids' teen lives. doesn't mean I'm their best friend either. 

[RDCanecutter 26284]

23 minutes ago, F250 said:

I strongly disagree. A good portion of our population thinks George Washington and Jesus turned the tide during the Battle of the Alamo

So you mean the Texians were winning, but then George and Jesus led an unstoppable bayonet charge screaming "Viva Santa Anna!"?

[Sbbruin 21738]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i did learn how to be bitter and anxious and have a lot of resentment towards my parents though so i got that out of it. Adieu if i don't want to be the biggest asshole in my kids' teen lives. doesn't mean I'm their best friend either. 

Sounds like you got that out of your system.

[ztejas 43266]

6 hours ago, texasdago said:

Feels like teenagers today are a bunch of fragile pussies who feel the need to stay home when they have a tiny tummy ache.

Yeah - what a bunch of bitches.

I skipped class in HS for important reasons - like smoking weed and fucking my girlfriend when our parents weren't home.