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Iran attacks Israel attacks Iran

ztejas

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Bevo

Bevo 13559

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1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

As it has been for a while, the Iranian power brokers' goal is to make the U.S. and Israel the enemies to distract Iranians from the destruction they've done to their own people.

Sure, by killing a bunch of innocent people from other countries with other religions.

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Macklemore

Macklemore 2876

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17 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Every generation believes they will be the one to put a stop to wars in the Middle East. These conflicts stretch back several millennia and will continue to happen for several millennia more. Thinking that this is a problem that has a simple solution, or really any solution, is a fallacy. The best to hope for is containment to the region and that the civilian population does not suffer too greatly if things escalate like they inevitably will.

Bullshit. There would be no Islamic terrorist proxies or hostilities between Iran and Israel if HIH Reza Pahlavi was on the Peacock Throne. Iranians don’t give a shit about Palestinians and are resentful that their hard earned money goes to that cause.

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6159

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17 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Bullshit. There would be no Islamic terrorist proxies or hostilities between Iran and Israel if HIH Reza Pahlavi was on the Peacock Throne. Iranians don’t give a shit about Palestinians and are resentful that their hard earned money goes to that cause.

Spend time reading more about the history of the region. Do not tell me that you have because if you had you would know the divisions go back for millennia upon millennia. This will go on into perpetuity. 

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2612

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Adding on to @Macklemore, but Iran had established diplomatic and military relationship with Israel and was a non-shooting ally against the Arabs.  In fact, it was so strong that even when he was deposed, the Israelis and the Iranian elites continued the relationship through the Iraq war before Khomeini more firmly established his theocracy at the head of the government (bear in mind this means the Israelis were selling US supplied arms to Iran while we sold weapons to Iraq). 

I don't mean to pick on you @UpperWestside, but when people describe the middle east conflicts are perpetual and immutable, it makes it sound like they are somehow distinct from those in the West.  I think part of the perception is it's a place with 2000 years of preserved written history so we just know a lot more about it.  There's been huge swaths of time when there was relative peace and I don't think the region appears all that more given to violence than Europe or the new world up to WW2. 

The whole "death to Israel" shit is Khomeini and is because of his rivalry with the Saudi's for religious legitimacy. 

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troph

troph 24781

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8 hours ago, b_p said:

This site has some amazing footage of ballistic missile strikes and how fast they're moving.  It makes you understand the challenges of defending against hypersonic missiles that can change trajectory during flight.  I suspect all of this was more of a show of Iran's capabilities rather than an actual attempt at trying to take out Israel.  However, from a pure defense standpoint, I'd expect we're learning a lot about how to defend multi-wave and barrage attacks as well as the reliability and effectiveness of the Iranian systems.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/irans-retaliatory-strikes-have-begun

 

This attack by Iran and the Russian-Ukraine war have been invaluable to provide clarity on the next generation of war and the capabilities of two boogeymen - Russian and Iran.  I certainly don’t like these attacks and want more support for Ukraine but the intel on wide open display is probably extremely valuable to our military. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105043

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Adding on to [mention=5490]Macklemore[/mention], but Iran had established diplomatic and military relationship with Israel and was a non-shooting ally against the Arabs.  In fact, it was so strong that even when he was deposed, the Israelis and the Iranian elites continued the relationship through the Iraq war before Khomeini more firmly established his theocracy at the head of the government (bear in mind this means the Israelis were selling US supplied arms to Iran while we sold weapons to Iraq). 
I don't mean to pick on you [mention=4231]UpperWestside[/mention], but when people describe the middle east conflicts are perpetual and immutable, it makes it sound like they are somehow distinct from those in the West.  I think part of the perception is it's a place with 2000 years of preserved written history so we just know a lot more about it.  There's been huge swaths of time when there was relative peace and I don't think the region appears all that more given to violence than Europe or the new world up to WW2. 
The whole "death to Israel" shit is Khomeini and is because of his rivalry with the Saudi's for religious legitimacy. 

Bingo. Iran’s “enmity” for Israel is an entirely self-serving stunt by the islamofascist regime, with nearly zero historical basis.
I won’t stan for the Shah or our blanket and blind support for him (autocrats ain’t good), and our limited strategic thinking in that respect helped pave the ground for the Islamic revolution. But the shittiness of the current regime is on them.
What amazes me is to see people so blinded by their rage at Israel (which, again…is not without a great deal of merit) that they put a white hat on Iran as simply following international law, and Israel is the devil for killing IRGC leadership who were using an embassy as their planning grounds for further attacks on Israel (conveniently skipping past the finding this week that Iran was behind the attack on Israel’s non-combatant embassy in Buenos Aires…and then a bombing of a Jewish center that killed 85 civilians in BA). Yeah, Iran, super-champions of “international law.” Fuck that shit.
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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6159

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15 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

Adding on to @Macklemore, but Iran had established diplomatic and military relationship with Israel and was a non-shooting ally against the Arabs.  In fact, it was so strong that even when he was deposed, the Israelis and the Iranian elites continued the relationship through the Iraq war before Khomeini more firmly established his theocracy at the head of the government (bear in mind this means the Israelis were selling US supplied arms to Iran while we sold weapons to Iraq). 

I don't mean to pick on you @UpperWestside, but when people describe the middle east conflicts are perpetual and immutable, it makes it sound like they are somehow distinct from those in the West.  I think part of the perception is it's a place with 2000 years of preserved written history so we just know a lot more about it.  There's been huge swaths of time when there was relative peace and I don't think the region appears all that more given to violence than Europe or the new world up to WW2. 

The whole "death to Israel" shit is Khomeini and is because of his rivalry with the Saudi's for religious legitimacy. 

Europe is the most bloodied continent in recorded history on the planet that also suffers from perpetual war. They are not the topic here. Again anyone that thinks they will solve the continual state of wanting to go to war and fighting over land there has not done any real purview of the history of the region. The Middle East will continue to bicker and fight long after we are all gone. 

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2612

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8 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Europe is the most bloodied continent in recorded history on the planet that also suffers from perpetual war. They are not the topic here.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Do you think we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians? 

The middle east isn't exceptional.  We should support other nations or people when our interests align and remove support when they don't. 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20903

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1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Sure, by killing a bunch of innocent people from other countries with other religions.

Look, I'm fully aware of their atrocities. The current President of Iran literally ordered the execution of my grandfather and 2 of his friend/neighbors in 1983 for not converting to Islam. They were also accused of being "spies" for Israel due to their main religious temple being located in Haifa. 

The regime needs to go. The only path that feels fruitful is a revolution that comes from within Iran. We've all been waiting for it to happen for a while now. 

But there are no "good guys" in charge in the Middle East right now. Everyone is a bad actor to varying degrees.  

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6159

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2 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Do you think we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians? 

The middle east isn't exceptional.  We should support other nations or people when our interests align and remove support when they don't. 

Again the topic is not Europe. I have no issue helping to ensure that Israel survives as a nation. I’m cool with Netanyahu seeing a prison cell though. There just will never be a solution to the violence in the Middle East. They will fight amongst each other for the rest of our lives and again long after we are turned to dust.

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6159

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2 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

The conflicts in the ME will not continue for millennia. We’re going to kill the planet way before that.

Well sure we’re on target to do that as a species, but if we somehow are still here several millennia from now they’ll still be fighting. 

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UTGrad98

UTGrad98 2271

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2 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Oil prices gonna go up, inflation gonna worsen, and the mortgage and real estate thread will be showing continuous footage of acts of poster Seppuku. 

Fill up your tanks today. Gas prices gonna jump this week.

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25854

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Posted (edited)

Interesting. So if we got 70, others even more, how many of the 150 made it any target? Sounds like there is a lot of new scrap metal out there.

US forces intercepted 70+ drones and at least three ballistic missiles, US officials say

From CNN's Oren Liebermann and Haley Britzky

US forces intercepted more than 70 one-way attack drones and at least three ballistic missiles during Iran's attack on Israel, according to two US officials familiar with the situation.

The ballistic missiles were intercepted by warships in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, one of the officials said. Iran launched more than 100 ballistic missiles in total at Israel, according to a senior administration official.

The US Navy currently has two destroyers in that area, both are guided missile destroyers capable of intercepting missile and drone launches.

US fighter jets were also part of the response to Iran’s attack on Saturday and shot down drones launched towards Israel, another US official told CNN.

Edited by InkaUtexas
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Bevo

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2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

What amazes me is to see people so blinded by their rage at Israel that they put a white hat on Iran as simply following international law, and Israel is the devil for killing IRGC leadership who were using an embassy as their planning grounds for further attacks on Israel (conveniently skipping past the finding this week that Iran was behind the attack on Israel’s non-combatant embassy in Buenos Aires…and then a bombing of a Jewish center that killed 85 civilians in BA). Yeah, Iran, super-champions of “international law.” Fuck that shit.

And the bombing by Hezbollah of a Panamanian plane with 21 aboard including 12 Jews, 1 day after the Buenos Aires attack.

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Bevo

Bevo 13559

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1 hour ago, Hank_Hill said:

The conflicts in the ME will not continue for millennia. We’re going to kill the planet way before that.

Not kill. Never kill. Only maim, or seriously injure.

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Bevo

Bevo 13559

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13 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Interesting. So if we got 70, others even more, how many of the 150 made it any target? Sounds like there is a lot of new scrap metal out there.

US forces intercepted 70+ drones and at least three ballistic missiles, US officials say

From CNN's Oren Liebermann and Haley Britzky

US forces intercepted more than 70 one-way attack drones and at least three ballistic missiles during Iran's attack on Israel, according to two US officials familiar with the situation.

The ballistic missiles were intercepted by warships in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, one of the officials said. Iran launched more than 100 ballistic missiles in total at Israel, according to a senior administration official.

The US Navy currently has two destroyers in that area, both are guided missile destroyers capable of intercepting missile and drone launches.

US fighter jets were also part of the response to Iran’s attack on Saturday and shot down drones launched towards Israel, another US official told CNN.

If we intercepted 3 out of more than 100 ballistic missiles, it makes me wonder how many we tried to intercept. You would think this would be a way to test our systems so 3 makes me question our systems. Maybe it depends on from where the missiles were shot.

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MrBig

MrBig 5368

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1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Look, I'm fully aware of their atrocities. The current President of Iran literally ordered the execution of my grandfather and 2 of his friend/neighbors in 1983 for not converting to Islam. They were also accused of being "spies" for Israel due to their main religious temple being located in Haifa. 

The regime needs to go. The only path that feels fruitful is a revolution that comes from within Iran. We've all been waiting for it to happen for a while now. 

But there are no "good guys" in charge in the Middle East right now. Everyone is a bad actor to varying degrees.  

The situation in Iran is unique because the Islamic Revolution was a relatively recent event, historically speaking. A lot of the older people were in their teens and twenties pre-Revolution back when Iran was westernized. They have first hand experience of what life was like without the current regime.

The push for an internal uprising by the people of Iran has a chance to gain traction if it is properly supported by the West, but I don’t think many are interested in supporting that kind of war. There is interest in defending Israel from Iranian attacks, but there is not much interest in regime change in support of the Iranian people absent any aggression towards Israel. 

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Duane Moore

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16 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

It’s a very rational response. It’s big and showy for the Islamic world to see that Iran isn’t going to take its consulate getting bombed without a response.  But the response is done in such a way that Israel can repel it with little difficulty and virtually no damage.

Israel can declare victory and call it a day based on the performance of its air defenses and the support it has received from its allies.  And, in fact, that’d probably be the smart play.

But it’s not the play that keeps Bibi in office and out of prison. So really no chance of that happening.

I have seen this argument a couple of places and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. If I am an observer in Oman, or the UAE, or Iraq and I see Israel fire one missile that takes out the commander of the Quds Force and several other high ranking members, and Iran’s retaliation is to fire 300 drones, cruise, and ballistic missile that collectively only manages to injure a poor little Bedouin girl, who comes off looking like the strong horse in this exchange?

I tend to think that they really thought they would inflict some pain on Israel. If they didn’t, it seems like a miscalculation, a waste of a lot of their arsenal, and it gives Israel another causus belli to come back after them.  If you’re going to break forty years of acting through proxies to do your dirty work, I would think you’d want a much better return on such a move. 

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Viper

Viper 12097

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10 minutes ago, Duane Moore said:

I have seen this argument a couple of places and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. If I am an observer in Oman, or the UAE, or Iraq and I see Israel fire one missile that takes out the commander of the Quds Force and several other high ranking members, and Iran’s retaliation is to fire 300 drones, cruise, and ballistic missile that collectively only manages to injure a poor little Bedouin girl, who comes off looking like the strong horse in this exchange?

I tend to think that they really thought they would inflict some pain on Israel. If they didn’t, it seems like a miscalculation, a waste of a lot of their arsenal, and it gives Israel another causus belli to come back after them.  If you’re going to break forty years of acting through proxies to do your dirty work, I would think you’d want a much better return on such a move. 

It was absolutely an attempt to overwhelm Israeli defenses, I think they just didn't anticipate Jordan and SA helping down the missiles and drones too (who's help is probably the most encouraging sign here). 

I've also seen it referenced here and elsewhere but Israel never bombed or attacked an Iranian consulate, I guess people don't read past the headlines anymore. 

The real question now is does Israel respond. It probably should be what Jordan and SA will allow to keep them helping and not sitting out. 

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achooloco

achooloco 1067

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2 hours ago, Viper said:

I've also seen it referenced here and elsewhere but Israel never bombed or attacked an Iranian consulate, I guess people don't read past the headlines anymore. 

Say what now? Haven’t paid the most attention but what’s the disconnect from this: 

The New York Times cited four unnamed Israeli officials as acknowledging that Israel was responsible for the attack.

Not saying there for sure was an attack but seems like the Iranian  embassy was attacked by Israel. 

 

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utee94

utee94 15797

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5 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Say what now? Haven’t paid the most attention but what’s the disconnect from this: 

The New York Times cited four unnamed Israeli officials as acknowledging that Israel was responsible for the attack.

Not saying there for sure was an attack but seems like the Iranian  embassy was attacked by Israel. 

 

He's saying it's in question whether or not that was in fact an "embassy."  Israel definitely did it.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34695

Posted
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4 hours ago, elfenix said:

china by itself says hi

Europe isn’t especially violent or war-prone but Europeans and their spin-off/mentee cultures are very, very good at war.

This is a big part of why Israel’s existence drives the Islamic world nuts, not really religion or even land for co-religionists. Jews left the Near East as tribesmen and came back organized as a Western nation with Western ways of war, thought, and social organization. Their existence in the middle of the Near East is a constant reminder of what the Islamic world believes is their humiliation at the hands of the West, which is supposed to be inferior. That’s why there’s so many comparisons to the Crusaders. 

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B00M

B00M 6413

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Posted (edited)
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"So much for the vaunted ballistic-missile capability of Iran," a US official said.


 

Do we really need to talk shit? Show some fuckin’ sportsmanship, act like you’ve been there before, etc. 

Good Game Football GIF by StickerGiant

Edited by B00M
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Bevo

Bevo 13559

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5 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Estimates of Israel's cost to defend against the one night barrage range from $550M to over $1B. That's a lot of coin.

Yes, it is a problem that has to be solved by the West. You shouldn't have to intercept $3,0000 drones with $1M missiles.

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Mother mopar

Mother mopar 3318

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Yes, it is a problem that has to be solved by the West. You shouldn't have to intercept $3,0000 drones with $1M missiles.
You don't work in the defense sector, do you. War is not always symmetrical. Jamming, suppression, GPS denial is often a better fit for contested environments.

There's layers on a defensive posture. Just because the news doesn't talk about doesn't mean it's not there, especially with Israel.
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DaggerHorns

DaggerHorns 3082

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2 minutes ago, Mother mopar said:

You don't work in the defense sector, do you. War is not always symmetrical. Jamming, suppression, GPS denial is often a better fit for contested environments.

There's layers on a defensive posture. Just because the news doesn't talk about doesn't mean it's not there, especially with Israel.

I don’t think he works in the financial sector either after seeing the number “$3,0000.”

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

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1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Yes, it is a problem that has to be solved by the West. You shouldn't have to intercept $3,0000 drones with $1M missiles.

It's easy.  You strap explosives to a True Believing America and have him run at the drone factory 

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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4 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

I don’t think he works in the financial sector either after seeing the number “$3,0000.”

You don't know what three ten thousand is? What are you, a moron?

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