UT Pro-Palestine Protest Thread

[JesusSweatDuck 17784]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Garza not pressing charges?  That's really surprising /s

[Captainant 27689]

As we get more into discussion and unpacking whatever the fuck happened yesterday, I think it's useful to remember what past intellectuals have written about fascism. Umberto Eco grew up under Mussolini's fascist regime, and really nicely distilled the idea of "Ur-Fascism" and its common "features".

Quote

1. The cult of tra­di­tion. “One has only to look at the syl­labus of every fas­cist move­ment to find the major tra­di­tion­al­ist thinkers. The Nazi gno­sis was nour­ished by tra­di­tion­al­ist, syn­cretis­tic, occult ele­ments.”
2. The rejec­tion of mod­ernism. “The Enlight­en­ment, the Age of Rea­son, is seen as the begin­ning of mod­ern deprav­i­ty. In this sense Ur-Fas­cism can be defined as irra­tional­ism.”
3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beau­ti­ful in itself, it must be tak­en before, or with­out, any pre­vi­ous reflec­tion. Think­ing is a form of emas­cu­la­tion.”
4. Dis­agree­ment is trea­son. “The crit­i­cal spir­it makes dis­tinc­tions, and to dis­tin­guish is a sign of mod­ernism. In mod­ern cul­ture the sci­en­tif­ic com­mu­ni­ty prais­es dis­agree­ment as a way to improve knowl­edge.”
5. Fear of dif­fer­ence. “The first appeal of a fas­cist or pre­ma­ture­ly fas­cist move­ment is an appeal against the intrud­ers. Thus Ur-Fas­cism is racist by def­i­n­i­tion.”
6. Appeal to social frus­tra­tion. “One of the most typ­i­cal fea­tures of the his­tor­i­cal fas­cism was the appeal to a frus­trat­ed mid­dle class, a class suf­fer­ing from an eco­nom­ic cri­sis or feel­ings of polit­i­cal humil­i­a­tion, and fright­ened by the pres­sure of low­er social groups.”
7. The obses­sion with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fas­cist psy­chol­o­gy there is the obses­sion with a plot, pos­si­bly an inter­na­tion­al one. The fol­low­ers must feel besieged.”
8. The ene­my is both strong and weak. “By a con­tin­u­ous shift­ing of rhetor­i­cal focus, the ene­mies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
9. Paci­fism is traf­fick­ing with the ene­my. “For Ur-Fas­cism there is no strug­gle for life but, rather, life is lived for strug­gle.”
10. Con­tempt for the weak. “Elit­ism is a typ­i­cal aspect of any reac­tionary ide­ol­o­gy.”
11. Every­body is edu­cat­ed to become a hero. “In Ur-Fas­cist ide­ol­o­gy, hero­ism is the norm. This cult of hero­ism is strict­ly linked with the cult of death.”
12. Machis­mo and weapon­ry. “Machis­mo implies both dis­dain for women and intol­er­ance and con­dem­na­tion of non­stan­dard sex­u­al habits, from chasti­ty to homo­sex­u­al­i­ty.”
13. Selec­tive pop­ulism. “There is in our future a TV or Inter­net pop­ulism, in which the emo­tion­al response of a select­ed group of cit­i­zens can be pre­sent­ed and accept­ed as the Voice of the Peo­ple.”
14. Ur-Fas­cism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fas­cist school­books made use of an impov­er­ished vocab­u­lary, and an ele­men­tary syn­tax, in order to lim­it the instru­ments for com­plex and crit­i­cal rea­son­ing.”

It is deeply upsetting how many of these features can be seen in abbott's abuse and response since yesterday. And also upsetting to see features in other posters.

[Sawbonz 27580]

2 minutes ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Garza not pressing charges?  That's really surprising /s

What would be the charge for UT students being on UT campus during a school day?

[lucious leftfoot 126]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

As we get more into discussion and unpacking whatever the fuck happened yesterday, I think it's useful to remember what past intellectuals have written about fascism. Umberto Eco grew up under Mussolini's fascist regime, and really nicely distilled the idea of "Ur-Fascism" and its common "features".

It is deeply upsetting how many of these features can be seen in abbott's abuse and response since yesterday. And also upsetting to see features in other posters.

Fascism is a political ideology, ergo a discussion/accusation of it is CR. Literally. Take it somewhere else. 

[Captainant 27689]

4 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

Fascism is a political ideology, ergo a discussion/accusation of it is CR. Literally. Take it somewhere else. 

That political ideology put a fucking boot on the neck of our university yesterday.

[Sawbonz 27580]

8 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

Fascism is a political ideology, ergo a discussion/accusation of it is CR. Literally. Take it somewhere else. 

No one has ever said this forum is news without commentary. You cannot explain Abbott’s actions yesterday without discussing the motivations behind them. I mean I guess if you are a thinned skinned titty baby with a low IQ you could try. Fascism is very germaine to what is going on at a place many or most of us hold close to sacred. That is not political

 

eta you smell like a sock. If I head over to 6th street am I going to find any crypto posts from you?

Edited April 25 by Sawbonz

[UnivTex34 1763]

Just got back to my office in the Main building from lunch. Probably 40 UTPD mulling in the main hallway on the ground floor. Didn't see more than normal amount of folks out in front of the tower on the Main mall.

[Frank Drebin 5653]

I suspect they can protest all they want in the appropriate areas.  But the masked protesters don’t want to do that.  

President Hartzell has explained that he isn’t going to allow them to take over areas that aren’t for protests.  Nor should he.  

[Michael Knight 12989]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

57 People Arrested at Peaceful UT Protest, 46 Cases Declined So Far

 

https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2024-04-25/57-people-arrested-at-peaceful-ut-protest-46-cases-declined-so-far/?mc_cid=9890388d3f

[Dahobbs 17627]

5 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

I suspect they can protest all they want in the appropriate areas.  But the masked protesters don’t want to do that.  

President Hartzell has explained that he isn’t going to allow them to take over areas that aren’t for protests.  Nor should he.  

What were the allowed areas? 

[BrickHorn 18255]

23 minutes ago, lucious leftfoot said:

Fascism is a political ideology, ergo a discussion/accusation of it is CR. Literally. Take it somewhere else. 

This legitimately brand new poster sure studied up on the rules before joining this site for what was surely the first time!

[Sawbonz 27580]

They wanted to gather on the South Mall and march down to the capital. Some were herded down onto speedway and arrested for blocking a roadway lol. Fucking speedway. And others were forced off the grass in front of the six pack onto the sidewalks and then, because they were boxed in by cops and cordoned off from the grass, some of those were charged with blocking the sidewalk. Fucking bullshit

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

This legitimately brand new poster sure studied up on the rules before joining this site for what was surely the first time!

It’s GRU

[Pam Cummings 9647]

I'm shocked that this thread has devolved into a bunch of right wing idiots blindly defending the actions of their favorite governor. Shocked.

[Captainant 27689]

11 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

I suspect they can protest all they want in the appropriate areas.  But the masked protesters don’t want to do that.  

President Hartzell has explained that he isn’t going to allow them to take over areas that aren’t for protests.  Nor should he.  

You are gaslighting and presenting as fact things that did not happen. 

What DID happen is that DPS showed up in riot gear at 1130, let people come and peacefully protest, and then started teakettling and arresting people. 

I posted a timeline earlier in the thread. 

[Macklemore 2873]

21 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

I suspect they can protest all they want in the appropriate areas.  But the masked protesters don’t want to do that.  

President Hartzell has explained that he isn’t going to allow them to take over areas that aren’t for protests.  Nor should he.  

What’s your hang up with masked protestors? Doxxing and character assassination of pro-Palestine protestors by pro-Israel groups is a very well documented tactic. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to mask up so that one’s life is not ruined by an outfit like Canary Mission or to be put on a hiring backlist.

Edited April 25 by Macklemore

[Frank Drebin 5653]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What were the allowed areas? 

I don't know.  I graduated 20+ years ago.  But there were designated spaces for protests.  Schools have time, place and manner restrictions for first amendment activities.  These restrictions, if viewpoint neutral and compliant with court precedent, are enforceable.  No matter how much you want to hide your face with a mask and protest Jews right to exist.

 

[Goredho 17413]

13 hours ago, F250 said:

I'm not an experienced moderator but I would suggest replying to all those reports with dick pics.

The idea that grown men run off to the mods complaining about this kind of thing just bottles the mind.

 

I think a technical solution is in order.  Whenever those posters access any URL on this site, I would have them redirected to the old scat site.

[Frank Drebin 5653]

3 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

What’s your hang up with masked protestors? Doxxing and character assassination of pro-Palestine protestors by pro-Israel groups is a very well documented tactic. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to mask up so that one’s life is not ruined by an outfit like Canary Mission or to put on a hiring backlist.

Because it is a KKK tactic.  They don't like being doxxed either.  Two sides of the same coin.

[UnivTex34 1763]

 

23 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Just got back to my office in the Main building from lunch. Probably 40 UTPD mulling in the main hallway on the ground floor. Didn't see more than normal amount of folks out in front of the tower on the Main mall.

Lots of folks out there now.

[HenryJames 66135]

Just now, Frank Drebin said:

No matter how much you want to hide your face with a mask and protest Jews right to exist.

Oh.

[Js1 85449]

Just now, HenryJames said:

Oh.

More making things up by our notorious posters to fit their agenda. It’s so stupidly and obviously coordinated  

[Dahobbs 17627]

Just now, Frank Drebin said:

I don't know.  I graduated 20+ years ago.  But there were designated spaces for protests.  Schools have time, place and manner restrictions for first amendment activities.  These restrictions, if viewpoint neutral and compliant with court precedent, are enforceable.  No matter how much you want to hide your face with a mask and protest Jews right to exist.

Great, so you don't know that anyone violated anything (and judging by the charges being dropped, they didn't). Also, I haven't seen anything from this specific protest that suggested it was about Israel's or Jews' generally right to exist. I think Israel has a right to exist and defend itself. I don't think it has a right to commit genocide. These aren't contradictory beliefs. 

[Pam Cummings 9647]

3 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

I don't know.  I graduated 20+ years ago.  But there were designated spaces for protests.  Schools have time, place and manner restrictions for first amendment activities.  These restrictions, if viewpoint neutral and compliant with court precedent, are enforceable.  No matter how much you want to hide your face with a mask and protest Jews right to exist.

 

"I have no idea what happened here and zero understanding of the situation. But here's my opinion anyway."

 

Doesn't that just sum up the internet so perfectly?

Edited April 25 by Pam Cummings

[Frank Drebin 5653]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Great, so you don't know that anyone violated anything (and judging by the charges being dropped, they didn't). Also, I haven't seen anything from this specific protest that suggested it was about Israel's or Jews' generally right to exist. I think Israel has a right to exist and defend itself. I don't think it has a right to commit genocide. These aren't contradictory beliefs. 

I read the letter from Texas.  It pretty clearly states the manner in which the protests were being conducted violated UT's free speech policies.  UT thus called in authorities.  They were not going to let them take over the university.

[Captainant 27689]

8 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

No matter how much you want to hide your face with a mask and protest Jews right to exist.

No matter how much you repeat the abbott and cruz line, it does not make it true. That was not happening yesterday.

Stop lying, please. 

Edited April 25 by Captainant

[Nivek 16949]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

It's revealing of your character that you think its ok to chase Jewish people around Columbia University chanting about their extermination and repeatedly attempt to burn down Federal Courthouses with hundreds of federal employees inside.

Reported:  This the the UT Pro-Palestine Protest thread, dickhead.

[Pam Cummings 9647]

Guys he read Hartzell's letter. That's all he needs. All the videos of cops violating peoples rights don't matter.

[Frank Drebin 5653]

5 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

"I have no idea what happened here and zero understanding of the situation. But here's my opinion anyway."

 

Doesn't that just sum up the internet so perfectly?

Here is Hartzell's statement, which part do you take issue with?

 

Dear UT community,

This has been a challenging day for many. We have witnessed much activity we normally do not experience on our campus, and there is understandably a lot of emotion surrounding these events. Today, our University held firm, enforcing our rules while protecting the Constitutional right to free speech. Peaceful protests within our rules are acceptable. Breaking our rules and policies and disrupting others’ ability to learn are not allowed. The group that led this protest stated it was going to violate Institutional Rules. Our rules matter, and they will be enforced. Our University will not be occupied.   The protesters tried to deliver on their stated intent to occupy campus. People not affiliated with UT joined them, and many ignored University officials’ continual pleas for restraint and to immediately disperse. The University did as we said we would do in the face of prohibited actions. We were prepared, with the necessary support to maintain campus operations and ensure the safety, well-being and learning environment for our more than 50,000 students.   We are grateful for the countless staff members and state and University law enforcement officers, as well as support personnel who exercised extraordinary restraint in the face of a difficult situation that is playing out at universities across the country. There is a way to exercise freedom of speech and civil discourse, and our Office of the Dean of Students has continued to offer ways to ensure protests can happen within the rules. The University of Texas will continue to take necessary steps so that all our University functions proceed without interruption.

Sincerely yours,

Jay Hartzell President

[Frank Drebin 5653]

The protesters clearly stated (and published) their intent to occupy the campus.  Hartzell said that violates campus policy on free speech and called the authorities to prevent any occupation.

 

 

[Pam Cummings 9647]

Yeah I read the letter. And then I watched the videos of what actually happened and quickly realized that Jay Hartzell is full of shit.

[Dahobbs 17627]

Just now, Frank Drebin said:

I read the letter from Texas.  It pretty clearly states the manner in which the protests were being conducted violated UT's free speech policies.  UT thus called in authorities.  They were not going to let them take over the university.

It does state that. So, I'm asking for specifics. Where were they allowed to protest? Where was that set out? What specific violations occurred? A general statement is hardly proof. The statement suggests protesters were being destructive/violent/threatening. I have seen zero evidence of that. If there were some, I'm sure you would point me to it. Since you can't, I have to conclude that portion of the statement was false. If that portion was false, I am skeptical about the rest of it. Provide some evidence that 1) actual restrictions were announced and in place, 2) that the students violated those restrictions, and 3) that they weren't forced into those violations by the police. I can't find any detail regarding any such restrictions or even specific allegations how the students violated them. Surely, given your firm opinion on the matter, you can at least tell me where the students allegedly were allowed to protest and what area they were arrested in? 

[Pato del Muerto 52535]

I take issue with the lack of specificity of what rules were being violated, by whom, when, and what was done about it.  
I also wonder why, at a public university, he feels the need to mention non-students participating or why it’s important. 

Edited April 25 by Pato del Muerto

[Captainant 27689]

Just now, Frank Drebin said:

The protesters clearly stated (and published) their intent to occupy the campus.  Hartzell said that violates campus policy on free speech and called the authorities to prevent any occupation.

Me saying that I'm a millionaire doesn't make it true either. You are overly eager to accept the framing that validates your biases. 

You should look for yourself what happened instead of listening to and repeating abbott's puppet

[Frank Drebin 5653]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

It does state that. So, I'm asking for specifics. Where were they allowed to protest? Where was that set out? What specific violations occurred? A general statement is hardly proof. The statement suggests protesters were being destructive/violent/threatening. I have seen zero evidence of that. If there were some, I'm sure you would point me to it. Since you can't, I have to conclude that portion of the statement was false. If that portion was false, I am skeptical about the rest of it. Provide some evidence that 1) actual restrictions were announced and in place, 2) that the students violated those restrictions, and 3) that they weren't forced into those violations by the police. I can't find any detail regarding any such restrictions or even specific allegations how the students violated them. Surely, given your firm opinion on the matter, you can at least tell me where the students allegedly were allowed to protest and what area they were arrested in? 

I would ask Hartzell.  I don't know the current restrictions.  If he is lying that they were violating them, then he should be held accountable.  When I was at Texas, there were designated places for protests.  You did not get to choose the areas to have a mass protest.  They were subject to time, place, and manner restrictions -- which have been repeatedly affirmed by courts. 

I would assume Texas has written policies.  If you are so sure they have been violated, go read them and let us know.  I am trusting Hartzell right now.  

[Dahobbs 17627]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I take issue with the lack of specificity of what rules were being violated, by whom, when, and what was done about it.  
I also wonder why, at a public university, he feels the need to mention non-students participating or why it’s important. 

This is especially concerning given that under Texas law, common outdoor areas of public universities are public forums, available to students and non-students alike. 

[Goredho 17413]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

It's revealing of your character that you think its ok to chase Jewish people around Columbia University chanting about their extermination and repeatedly attempt to burn down Federal Courthouses with hundreds of federal employees inside.

Dude, where did anyone post anything remotely confusable with this?

[Dahobbs 17627]

Just now, Frank Drebin said:

I would ask Hartzell.  I don't know the current restrictions.  If he is lying that they were violating them, then he should be held accountable.  When I was at Texas, there were designated places for protests.  You did not get to choose the areas to have a mass protest.  They were subject to time, place, and manner restrictions -- which have been repeatedly affirmed by courts. 

I would assume Texas has written policies.  If you are so sure they have been violated, go read them and let us know.  I am trusting Hartzell right now.  

I did ask Hartzell. He hasn't responded. You're the one telling me that these things must exist. So I'm asking you. Support your opinion.  

[Frank Drebin 5653]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Me saying that I'm a millionaire doesn't make it true either. You are overly eager to accept the framing that validates your biases. 

You should look for yourself what happened instead of listening to and repeating abbott's puppet

So you are stating and are confident that these protesters were not violating the University's time, place, and manner restrictions?

If you are correct, then Hartzell should be held accountable.  And I will support that and agree with you.

[lucious leftfoot 126]

42 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

No one has ever said this forum is news without commentary. You cannot explain Abbott’s actions yesterday without discussing the motivations behind them. I mean I guess if you are a thinned skinned titty baby with a low IQ you could try. Fascism is very germaine to what is going on at a place many or most of us hold close to sacred. That is not political

 

eta you smell like a sock. If I head over to 6th street am I going to find any crypto posts from you?

 

Crypto? No thanks. That’s just for scammers and criminals like countries trying to evade sanctions

 

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

 

[DaysOff 7961]

I would ask Hartzell.  I don't know the current restrictions.  If he is lying that they were violating them, then he should be held accountable.  When I was at Texas, there were designated places for protests.  You did not get to choose the areas to have a mass protest.  They were subject to time, place, and manner restrictions -- which have been repeatedly affirmed by courts. 
I would assume Texas has written policies.  If you are so sure they have been violated, go read them and let us know.  I am trusting Hartzell right now.  

Man, I hated seeing that eyesore shanty every time I stepped out of the UGL.

[Jameslaw121 4448]

In 2019, Texas lawmakers passed a free speech law that established all common outdoor areas at public universities as traditional public forums, allowing anyone – not just students and university members – to exercise free speech there, as long as their activities are lawful and don’t disrupt the normal functions of the campus.

 

The entire campus is a protest area.

[Frank Drebin 5653]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I did ask Hartzell. He hasn't responded. You're the one telling me that these things must exist. So I'm asking you. Support your opinion.  

https://catalog.utexas.edu/general-information/appendices/appendix-c/speech-expression-and-assembly/

[Frank Drebin 5653]

Just now, Jameslaw121 said:

In 2019, Texas lawmakers passed a free speech law that established all common outdoor areas at public universities as traditional public forums, allowing anyone – not just students and university members – to exercise free speech there, as long as their activities are lawful and don’t disrupt the normal functions of the campus.

 

The entire campus is a protest area.

It is.  But subject to time, place, and manner restrictions.  Try and protest on the field during the 1st quarter of the Georgia game

[Captainant 27689]

Sack, have you even read the thread? I linked Hartzells own statement about last year's free speech week and the UTexas page for it. 

It sure seems like you're coming in completely uninformed and thread shitting to defend your culture war stake 

[Js1 85449]

7 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yeah I read the letter. And then I watched the videos of what actually happened and quickly realized that Jay Hartzell is full of shit.

You mean Hartzell was covering his ass for letting Abbott roll all over him?

[Dahobbs 17627]

Oh look, I found some detail sort of:

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/nation-world/israel-hamas-conflict/ut-palestine-protest/269-9fa17214-53c1-47e1-965e-629c0d22f1c9

From the protesters:

Quote

 

At UT, the Palestine Solidarity Committee said it was following in the footsteps of those students, calling for justice in Palestine. On Wednesday morning, UT students walked out of class and met near Gregory Gym. They planned to march and occupy the university's South Mall.

"Our plan was to be as peaceful as possible from the beginning. We weren't planning on destructing. We were planning on chanting solely during passing periods, which is the university rules, and we were complying with every single directive the university had given us from the dean of students. And yet we were escalated into this situation by the police," a member of the Palestine Solidarity Committee at UT said. 

The group's initial plans for the walkout protest included a study break, pizza break and art workshop.

From the University:

Quote

However, UT said the protest was not authorized. A letter sent to the Palestine Solidarity Committee on Tuesday by the Office of the Dean of Students said the event would not be allowed to "proceed as planned."

"Simply put, The University of Texas at Austin will not allow this campus to be 'taken' and protesters to derail our mission in ways that groups affiliated with your national organization have accomplished elsewhere," the letter reads in part. "Please be advised that you are not permitted to hold your event on the University campus. Any attempt to do so will subject your organization and its attending members to discipline including suspension under the Institutional Rules."

So, you tell me @Frank Drebin, where is the reasonable time and place restriction in "you are not permitted" to protest at all? Sounds like, the University was intentionally stamping down on free speech and violating constitutional rights. Sounds like Hartzell was full of shit and had already decided the outcome before the event took place. 

[Captainant 27689]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

So, you tell me @Frank Drebin, where is the reasonable time and place restriction in "you are not permitted" to protest at all? Sounds like, the University was intentionally stamping down on free speech and violating constitutional rights. Sounds like Hartzell was full of shit and had already decided the outcome before the event took place. 

Sack knows. He WANTS the university to stamp down and crack heads for people who have speech he doesn't like. 

Hell, on his original handle he once misquoted MLK in defense of Chris Rufo's CRT shit. He's an intellectually dishonest liar that doesn't care

Edited April 25 by Captainant

[hayden_horn 11364]

14 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I take issue with the lack of specificity of what rules were being violated, by whom, when, and what was done about it.  
I also wonder why, at a public university, he feels the need to mention non-students participating or why it’s important. 

because he's pro fascist. seriously, what fucking UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT calls in the fucking state trooper anti riot police to smash up a peaceful protest with tried and true kesselschlacht warfare tactics?

also, incredulity got it for a couple of days. more incoming and or I'm just going to move obvious political thread to political forum. 

yall decide jesus christ you bunch of children

[Sawbonz 27580]

TBF Sack is anxiously awaiting the 3rd Temple to be built 

[jimmyjazz 46000]

Jay Hartzell needs to be fired, full stop.  He is wholly incapable of running a huge public university.

Edited April 25 by jimmyjazz