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Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

How much longer before TB is proposing a spectrum of skull measurements for determining Jewishness?

I can't even figure out the exact perspective here.  "Troll" seems apropos.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

i would counter with the question -- if a Jew from Hungary declares himself an atheist, is he still a Jew? Is he then exactly the same as a Hungarian Christian who also declares himself an atheist? 

So what makes someone a Jew? 

Quoting Der Sturmer these days?

Posted
6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

How much longer before TB is proposing a spectrum of skull measurements for determining Jewishness?

you are Jewish, then tell us what defines a Jew.  It's important in defining the conflict because many believe it's about Judaism (religion) vs. Islam. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

How much longer before TB is proposing a spectrum of skull measurements for determining Jewishness?

yeah I think hes run his course

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mikey4 said:

I was responding to the contention that protesting against Israel is not necessarily anti-semitism. Perhaps not every protester is an anti-semite -- hell, some don't even know what they're protesting -- but it's damn hard to draw a line between wanting to annihilate Israel and wanting to subjugate or annihilate the 7 million Jews who live there.

To your point -- Isreal was fine with the 67 borders and Palestinian self-governance until attacked. Israel was fine with Palestinian control of Gaza until attacked. Isreal has repeatedly offered a two-state solution only to be rebuffed every single time, including by bloody intifada. Don't act like mainstream Israelis are set on annihilation of Palestinians. They want to be left alone.

I'll gladly concede that a non-trivial number of the protestors don't have an informed viewpoint on why they are protesting and are simply protesting to protest. That's been the case on the west mall and other college campuses for decades. Young people are always pissed off at the government for a variety of reasons, so when given a chance to protest the government, they will jump right in. Hell, some of them are probably protesting for no other reason than a hot chick they know said she was going to protest. 

But I would also argue that claiming the majority of these protestors  are antisemitic is fucking laughable. There's one side currently subjugating/annihilating the other right now, and it ain't those poor folks in Gaza. That's what people are protesting. They weren't all out there last June. And while there are almost certainly  some antisemites in the  group, simply protesting Israel's annihilation of Gaza is by no means antisemitic. That's bullshit. You may agree or disagree with Israel's tactics, but you should be free to voice those beliefs without threat of arrest. I get very uncomfortable when the government starts defining what you can and cannot criticize. You should be free to criticize Israel or free to criticize the Palestinians/Hamas. 

I had a reply to your second paragraph (why start at 1967 rather than 1948, etc...), but deleted it as there are threads on this board for discussing the greater Israeli/Palestinian conflict and this thread already suffers from some unfortunate hijacks rather than the protests at UT (see the recent effort at Jewish Taxonomy). I'll just say, I fully expect that region to be a fucking shitshow long after I'm gone from this world. And hopefully students will be free to voice their opinions on the matter without the blessing of whomever happens to be sitting in the governors mansion. 

Edited by Blotto
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Posted

How have I never come across this jackass before? Does he typically only slither around in the lounge, smelling his own taco-scented farts?   I can understand college kids being drawn into this level of overweening-weisenheimer thinking without the subsequent cognitive dissonance, but it's inexplicable in an adult with a fully developed brain.  Maybe I've made the wrong assumption, and he's posting from a college campus, but it's more likely from his mom's basement or a nap pod at Google headquarters.  I don't think I've ever put someone on ignore before, but he wins the prize.  Based on this thread alone, he's either a propagandist in need of further training or a moron, so:

ain't nobody got time for that GIF

Posted
43 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

How have I never come across this jackass before? Does he typically only slither around in the lounge, smelling his own taco-scented farts?   I can understand college kids being drawn into this level of overweening-weisenheimer thinking without the subsequent cognitive dissonance, but it's inexplicable in an adult with a fully developed brain.  Maybe I've made the wrong assumption, and he's posting from a college campus, but it's more likely from his mom's basement or a nap pod at Google headquarters.  I don't think I've ever put someone on ignore before, but he wins the prize.  Based on this thread alone, he's either a propagandist in need of further training or a moron, so:

ain't nobody got time for that GIF

weisenheimer?!?!?!     Woah Nelly!

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Posted
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

How much longer before TB is proposing a spectrum of skull measurements for determining Jewishness?

I'm sure he has a final solution to the Jewish problem.

Posted
1 hour ago, Blotto said:

But I would also argue that claiming the majority of these protestors  are antisemitic is fucking laughable. There's one side currently subjugating/annihilating the other right now, and it ain't those poor folks in Gaza. That's what people are protesting.

Ok, I'll bite.

If there was a pro-nazi protest at UT, and I went and joined the protest and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Putin rally at UT, and I went and joined the rally and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Kim Jong Il march at UT, and I went and marched and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what you you call me?
 

I'm guessing I wouldn't survive that stretch without being almost uniformly labeled a nazi, fascist, communist, geoncidist, war criminal, and probably some other shit.  Rightfully so.  You march with the nazis, I'm calling you a nazi.

So, if you go and protest and what not and you're protesting for a group of people that voted for leaders that say things like "Israel has no right to exist," (and I don't have a citation but it's out there), I think it's fair to say you're "anti-those people."  If you don't want to call it "antisemitic," then why don't you try on "anti-jewish" or "anti-Israeli." 

From where I'm sitting in Texas, there's not much difference.  You want the people that won the war and got the land to give back the land and go the fuck away, or die, and you'll protest and maybe more to accomplish the goal.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, CoTex said:

Ok, I'll bite.

If there was a pro-nazi protest at UT, and I went and joined the protest and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Putin rally at UT, and I went and joined the rally and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Kim Jong Il march at UT, and I went and marched and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what you you call me?
 

I'm guessing I wouldn't survive that stretch without being almost uniformly labeled a nazi, fascist, communist, geoncidist, war criminal, and probably some other shit.  Rightfully so.  You march with the nazis, I'm calling you a nazi.

So, if you go and protest and what not and you're protesting for a group of people that voted for leaders that say things like "Israel has no right to exist," (and I don't have a citation but it's out there), I think it's fair to say you're "anti-those people."  If you don't want to call it "antisemitic," then why don't you try on "anti-jewish" or "anti-Israeli." 

From where I'm sitting in Texas, there's not much difference.  You want the people that won the war and got the land to give back the land and go the fuck away, or die, and you'll protest and maybe more to accomplish the goal.

I see this a bit differently and will provide an example of how I view these protests which I think is more accurate.

Let's say there is a 2nd amendment protest scheduled. I support the 2nd amendment. I want to go to this rally. The point of the rally is to specifically voice discontent with State policy regarding an upcoming bill before the state. 

First, I learn they are holding the rally on a campus. (I would ask the founders why it's not at the capital). Next I find out a lot of students are planning on joining. (This would seem odd to me as 2nd amendment rights don't tend to be popular among college students, so I'd ask why)

Then I find out these students are primarily fraternity folks. Hmmm.. well...

As the protest starts the plan changes from a protest to deciding to take over a building on campus.

Beyond that, the "college students from fraternities joining" are Proud Boy folks.

If I elected to STILL attend said rally (which I absolutely wouldn't and would actually be against, for the record) I could, hypothetically argue I'm not a racist, and I'm just here because I support the 2nd amendment. However, my attendance is likely going to get me labeled a racist, criminal and idiot. 

Rightfully so, even though I don't specifically support those, I'm showing up and being a part of a rally that commits criminal acts and DOES support them. 

Granted, I could argue the rally got co-opted, but if I knew before or saw during any of these developments, then the resulting issues regarding my reputation are entirely on me and fully deserved.

Oh, and nobody even knows or is aware of the bill that I was against to start with regarding the 2nd amendment. Nobody is even talking about it. They are talking about the Proud Boys and their criminal activities, with which I'm now associated.

That's on me.

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Posted
1 hour ago, CoTex said:

Ok, I'll bite.

If there was a pro-nazi protest at UT, and I went and joined the protest and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Putin rally at UT, and I went and joined the rally and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Kim Jong Il march at UT, and I went and marched and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what you you call me?
 

I'm guessing I wouldn't survive that stretch without being almost uniformly labeled a nazi, fascist, communist, geoncidist, war criminal, and probably some other shit.  Rightfully so.  You march with the nazis, I'm calling you a nazi.

So, if you go and protest and what not and you're protesting for a group of people that voted for leaders that say things like "Israel has no right to exist," (and I don't have a citation but it's out there), I think it's fair to say you're "anti-those people."  If you don't want to call it "antisemitic," then why don't you try on "anti-jewish" or "anti-Israeli." 

From where I'm sitting in Texas, there's not much difference.  You want the people that won the war and got the land to give back the land and go the fuck away, or die, and you'll protest and maybe more to accomplish the goal.

This is reminiscent of the Anti-Apartheid Movement that was considered pro-communist and pro-terrorist when really it was a struggle for basic human rights by an oppressed people.

Shit, even now after the fall of apartheid people still claim that the whites in South Africa will be eliminated.

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Posted
33 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

I see this a bit differently and will provide an example of how I view these protests which I think is more accurate.

Let's say there is a 2nd amendment protest scheduled. I support the 2nd amendment. I want to go to this rally. The point of the rally is to specifically voice discontent with State policy regarding an upcoming bill before the state. 

First, I learn they are holding the rally on a campus. (I would ask the founders why it's not at the capital). Next I find out a lot of students are planning on joining. (This would seem odd to me as 2nd amendment rights don't tend to be popular among college students, so I'd ask why)

Then I find out these students are primarily fraternity folks. Hmmm.. well...

As the protest starts the plan changes from a protest to deciding to take over a building on campus.

Beyond that, the "college students from fraternities joining" are Proud Boy folks.

If I elected to STILL attend said rally (which I absolutely wouldn't and would actually be against, for the record) I could, hypothetically argue I'm not a racist, and I'm just here because I support the 2nd amendment. However, my attendance is likely going to get me labeled a racist, criminal and idiot. 

Rightfully so, even though I don't specifically support those, I'm showing up and being a part of a rally that commits criminal acts and DOES support them. 

Granted, I could argue the rally got co-opted, but if I knew before or saw during any of these developments, then the resulting issues regarding my reputation are entirely on me and fully deserved.

Oh, and nobody even knows or is aware of the bill that I was against to start with regarding the 2nd amendment. Nobody is even talking about it. They are talking about the Proud Boys and their criminal activities, with which I'm now associated.

That's on me.

I guess my takeaway is that, if you get in the crowd, you likely own whatever destination that crowd reaches, even if you didn't intend it.

Here's where I think we're headed, we've been here before.

Saturday night, we all go out to take one side or the other and

or

They bleeped out his words but I'm pretty sure Foster in Austin said something to the effect of "the people that actually hate us are too big of pussies to do anything about it [me carrying an AK down Congress avenue]."  I guess he was wrong.

Rittenhouse both sides had guns.

Foster both sides had guns.

Posted

From UT

What rules did protesters break? Here's what UT Austin had to say

UT officials said more than 10 "known violations of Institutional Rules" were committed by protesters.

bf409f54-82fb-4e6a-80af-a9f748f67790_16x9.jpg

AUSTIN, Texas — More than 130 arrests were made during multiple pro-Palestine protests at the University of Texas at Austin in recent weeks.

More than half of those arrested now face charges ranging from criminal trespassing, to obstructing a highway or passageway, to interfering with public duties.

Some Austin city leaders say the arrests are overwhelming Travis County's legal system, leading others to wonder what rules were broken by protesters at UT.

According to the university, 11 "known violations of Institutional Rules" were committed during the April 24 and April 29 protests:

  • Erecting tents
  • Attempting to establish an encampment
  • Unauthorized use of amplified sound
  • Unauthorized use of tables on the South Lawn
  • Demonstrating in unauthorized locations/non-common areas
  • Use of face coverings to conceal identity
  • Failure to identify
  • Failure to comply with directives related to the above
  • Shoving staff
  • Items brought to use as weapons (guns, shields, objects intended for throwing)
  • Failure to follow city, state, and federal laws (criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, assault on public servant)

UT officials said the last two items were just examples and not comprehensive. They also said guns found at the protest were open carry and visible, even though the university would not share any photos of them.

 

What is UT's campus carry rule?

 

In 2015, Senate Bill 11 allowed those licensed to carry to bring a concealed handgun onto university campuses. It also gave public universities discretion to regulate campus carry.

Those with a license to carry are eligible to carry a concealed handgun on campus if they're 21 or older. They must also clear eligibility requirements like a criminal background, mental health history and substance abuse issues.

Concealed carry is "generally" allowed in outdoor areas as well as buildings and spaces accessible to the public. However, "a license holder may not carry a partially or wholly visible handgun on campus premises or on any university driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Read more about the pro-Palestine protests at UT Austin:

Posted
2 hours ago, CoTex said:

Ok, I'll bite.

If there was a pro-nazi protest at UT, and I went and joined the protest and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Putin rally at UT, and I went and joined the rally and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Kim Jong Il march at UT, and I went and marched and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what you you call me?
 

I'm guessing I wouldn't survive that stretch without being almost uniformly labeled a nazi, fascist, communist, geoncidist, war criminal, and probably some other shit.  Rightfully so.  You march with the nazis, I'm calling you a nazi.

So, if you go and protest and what not and you're protesting for a group of people that voted for leaders that say things like "Israel has no right to exist," (and I don't have a citation but it's out there), I think it's fair to say you're "anti-those people."  If you don't want to call it "antisemitic," then why don't you try on "anti-jewish" or "anti-Israeli." 

From where I'm sitting in Texas, there's not much difference.  You want the people that won the war and got the land to give back the land and go the fuck away, or die, and you'll protest and maybe more to accomplish the goal.

There is a huge difference. Some among the protestors are undoubtedly pro Hamas but it’s not a pro Hamas rally. You are making a false equivalence fallacy. Look at what the Israeli settlers have been doing and where they are expanding. Palestinians have legitimate claims. Now add in the crimes against humanity that the IDF is committing, and under whose umbrella they are committing them. Being against that is in no way anti semitic 

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Posted
18 minutes ago, CoTex said:

Ok, I'll bite.

If there was a pro-nazi protest at UT, and I went and joined the protest and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Putin rally at UT, and I went and joined the rally and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what would you call me?

and then

If there was a pro-Kim Jong Il march at UT, and I went and marched and screamed and waived flags and fucked with people, what you you call me?
 

I'm guessing I wouldn't survive that stretch without being almost uniformly labeled a nazi, fascist, communist, geoncidist, war criminal, and probably some other shit.  Rightfully so.  You march with the nazis, I'm calling you a nazi.

So, if you go and protest and what not and you're protesting for a group of people that voted for leaders that say things like "Israel has no right to exist," (and I don't have a citation but it's out there), I think it's fair to say you're "anti-those people."  If you don't want to call it "antisemitic," then why don't you try on "anti-jewish" or "anti-Israeli." 

From where I'm sitting in Texas, there's not much difference.  You want the people that won the war and got the land to give back the land and go the fuck away, or die, and you'll protest and maybe more to accomplish the goal.

I actually don't have an objection to protestors being labeled as "anti-Israeli" as  long as its understood the objection is to the actions of the Israeli government.  The notion that the Israeli government can never be criticized for their behavior is as absurd as the notion that a US president can never be charged with a crime, regardless of his actions in office. All countries are capable of poor policy decisions. 9/11 was a horrific episode. Invading Iraq as a response was equally horrific. And yet those who criticized our decision to invade Iraq were often labeled as anti-american at the time. That was a bullshit argument as well. 

One additional comment is that I did not attend the protests on campus first hand. My exposure was limited to what I watched online, and what I heard was calls for and end to Israeli aggression in Gaza, calls for an end to US assistance in that aggression, as well as calls for a free Palestine. Those are not antisemitic positions in my mind. If everyone was screaming death to Jews, I missed it.  If its not pissing down rain  on Sunday I may ride down to observe the shitshow, and see if the rhetoric is significantly different than what I have understood  it to be to this point. 

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Posted

I

1 minute ago, Blotto said:

I actually don't have an objection to protestors being labeled as "anti-Israeli" as  long as its understood the objection is to the actions of the Israeli government.  The notion that the Israeli government can never be criticized for their behavior is as absurd as the notion that a US president can never be charged with a crime, regardless of his actions in office. All countries are capable of poor policy decisions. 9/11 was a horrific episode. Invading Iraq as a response was equally horrific. And yet those who criticized our decision to invade Iraq were often labeled as anti-american at the time. That was a bullshit argument as well. 

One additional comment is that I did not attend the protests on campus first hand. My exposure was limited to what I watched online, and what I heard was calls for and end to Israeli aggression in Gaza, calls for an end to US assistance in that aggression, as well as calls for a free Palestine. Those are not antisemitic positions in my mind. If everyone was screaming death to Jews, I missed it.  If its not pissing down rain  on Sunday I may ride down to observe the shitshow, and see if the rhetoric is significantly different than what I have understood  it to be to this point. 

Same. I watched 3-4 hours of the protest and never heard the "river to the sea" chant coming from protesters at UT-Austin. Elsewhere? Yes, including UT-Dallas yesterday.

One absurdity in all this, though, is that the current Israeli government absolutely does NOT recognize the right of Palestine to exist. In fact, the Israeli government is actively expanding settlements on Palestinian land and just annexed more of the West Bank, like, last fucking month. 

Consider Bezalel Smotrich, who is currently the Minister of Defense and of Finance for Israel:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-12/ty-article/.premium/the-plan-to-subjugate-the-palestinians-goes-ahead/0000018e-32ae-d606-a5ff-7fbf31c80000

https://archive.is/Snrvf

Quote

 

Seven years ago, in the spring of 2017, Smotrich – then still a lawmaker in the Habayit Hayehudi party – presented in closed religious Zionist circles his plan for one state from the sea to the river, for one people. The Jewish people. There were those who concluded that the mass killing of Palestinian children and women was included in his third option: all-out war on Palestinians who refuse to emigrate or to remain and accept the non-realization of their national rights in this country.

In a response to critics of his plan in Haaretz, he refuted entirely the extreme interpretation given to his words, and presumably to the fact that he relied on letters sent by Joshua bin Nun, according to a midrash, to the inhabitants of the land he was about to conquer, according to the Bible ("Haaretz, I didn't call for the wholesale killing of all Palestinians," June 4, 2017).

Already in a candid interview he gave to Ravit Hecht over seven years ago (Haaretz, December 3, 2016), Smotrich mentioned Joshua and his letters. "[W]e are deciding the conflict: I am destroying their hopes of establishing a state," he told Hecht, and when she asked "how," he replied: "When Joshua entered the land, he sent three letters to its inhabitants: Those who want to accept [our rule] will accept; those who want to leave, will leave; those who want to fight, will fight. ... Those who want to leave, and there will be those who leave, I will help them. When they have no hope and no outlook, they will leave, just as they left in 1948."

It is no coincidence that from the beginning of the war, Smotrich has been among the cabinet members and politicians who has pointed enthusiastically at the "humane" solution for noncombatants in Gaza: voluntary population transfer. The airstrikes help. Indeed, every day even the greatest patriots in Gaza leave the territory, fleeing from the horrors of destruction and death, if they have the money or the right connections.

Then, back in 2016, Smotrich told Hecht: "Those who do not go will either accept the rule of the Jewish state, in which case they can remain, and as for those who do not, we will fight them and defeat them." At the time, the young Knesset member focused on the West Bank, and presented its annexation and the expansion of the settlement enterprise and rise in the number of settlers as the main weapon in the subjugation process. Today, defeat and subjugation are the name of the game in all of the regions.

 


Why isn't that shit ever fucking acknowledged? 

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Posted
6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I just don't engage in the homeland discussions

That's smart, because there is only one "homeland"...Africa...and it's all of ours.

All the rest are just bullshit made up borders...most of which were created within the last 500 years.

Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

There is a huge difference. Some among the protestors are undoubtedly pro Hamas but it’s not a pro Hamas rally. You are making a false equivalence fallacy. Look at what the Israeli settlers have been doing and where they are expanding. Palestinians have legitimate claims. Now add in the crimes against humanity that the IDF is committing, and under whose umbrella they are committing them. Being against that is in no way anti semitic 

Would you remain of the same mindset if rather than pro-Hamas it was Proud Boys joining? Are you willing to acknowledge that illegal activities are occurring above and beyond the protests?

Do you condone the illegal activities?

Do you acknowledge that pro-Hamas is antisemitic?

Are you aware of any efforts by the Pro-Palestine activists to remove or distance themselves from the pro-hamas attendees?

Do you acknowledge that the point of these activities both criminal and otherwise undermine the entire point and actually take attention away from the issue they and others wish to address?

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted

You really think UT officials would do that? Just go on the media and tell lies?
 

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/05/02/ut-austin-protest-arrests-guns-assault-allegations/

 

Quote

UT-Austin says protesters carried guns and assaulted people. Prosecutors haven't seen proof.

The Travis County attorney hasn’t “seen a single weapons charge or an assault charge” despite school officials’ insinuations of planned violence.

BY ANDREW WEBER, KUT NEWS
MAY 2, 2024
1 HOUR AGO

Despite University of Texas at Austin officials’ claims about weapons and assaults at the recent campus protests, Travis County Attorney Delia Garza says her office hasn't seen a single charge.

UT-Austin said Tuesday night that pro-Palestinian groups with ties to "escalating protests" across the country brought weapons and assaulted people during the rallies.

On Wednesday, Garza told KUT the university's statement — and its insistence that demonstrators had "guns, buckets of large rocks, bricks, steel-enforced wood planks, mallets and chains" — was "interesting."

“It’s concerning … we work in the world of evidence and facts, and we have not seen a single weapons charge or an assault charge," she said.

Garza, whose office prosecutes misdemeanors, said she has called on UT Austin to reexamine its policy of arresting protesters for criminal trespassing, a misdemeanor similar to loitering — because it is currently "unsustainable." The protests have led to nearly 140 arrests for misdemeanors.

People are legally allowed to carry a weapon on the UT-Austin campus. However, if they're committing a crime, like criminal trespassing, they could be arrested for unlawful carrying of a weapon, a misdemeanor.

Garza said after reading UT-Austin's statement Tuesday, she expected to see some of that reflected in arrest affidavits from the University of Texas Police Department, the arresting agency. She didn't.

"I don't know why they are saying that," she said.

Garza, whose office prosecutes misdemeanors, said she has called on UT Austin to reexamine its policy of arresting protesters for criminal trespassing, a misdemeanor similar to loitering — because it is currently "unsustainable." The protests have led to nearly 140 arrests for misdemeanors.

People are legally allowed to carry a weapon on the UT-Austin campus. However, if they're committing a crime, like criminal trespassing, they could be arrested for unlawful carrying of a weapon, a misdemeanor.

Garza said after reading UT-Austin's statement Tuesday, she expected to see some of that reflected in arrest affidavits from the University of Texas Police Department, the arresting agency. She didn't.

"I don't know why they are saying that," she said.

Garza said, on average, her office handles around 85 misdemeanors a day. While she respects the university's right to keep campus safe, she said, the caseload is straining her staff.

“There’s just a lot that goes into processing every single one of those cases and rightfully so — there needs to be a good, strict process when you’re taking people’s liberty away," she said. "[But] it slows down everything … when you have so many at the same time.”

Students organizers told KUT on Wednesday they had consented to searches Monday ahead of demonstrations and that the university's insistence that they have carried weapons is "not happening."

"We're complying and letting [police] know that we don't have anything, and they're free to look through it," said an organizer who didn't feel comfortable giving his name in light of arrests.

The university has not backed down from claims that demonstrators have weapons and are from "outside the community." It said the majority of those arrested don't have ties to the school.

The university hasn't offered proof of that statement, and arrest records to confirm that weren't publicly available as of Thursday.

Another on-campus demonstration is planned for Sunday.

Disclosure: University of Texas at Austin has been a financial supporter of The Texas Tribune, a nonprofit, nonpartisan news organization that is funded in part by donations from members, foundations and corporate sponsors. Financial supporters play no role in the Tribune's journalism.

 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

You really think UT officials would do that? Just go on the media and tell lies?
 

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/05/02/ut-austin-protest-arrests-guns-assault-allegations/

 

 

I don't know if they would or wouldn't but if it at the end of the day they can't verify their claims, it's not going to end well for the University and that is something I'm very much against. 

Posted
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Same. I watched 3-4 hours of the protest and never heard the "river to the sea" chant coming from protesters at UT-Austin. Elsewhere? Yes, including UT-Dallas yesterday.

I did hear one "river to the sea" chant at the UT Austin protest on Monday(?? I think??), but it was short-lived and limited to probably a dozen people. Its certainly inflammatory rhetoric, but lets not pretend there aren't elements within the Pro-Israel movement openly advocating for the removal of all Palestinians from Gaza.  In any case, I hope I can get down to campus on Sunday for a first hand appreciation of what's going down. 

An interesting article I stumbled across today. From what I read, Haaretz represents the more liberal Israeli viewpoint, and i dont know much about the Jewish Federations of North America. But I agree with the bolded part, we don't do nuance very well in today's political climate in the US. Everything is black and white, Israel (or the Palestinians) are 100% right (or 100% wrong). But if that is the sentiment within the Jewish American community, the notion that any criticism of Israel or Netanyahu's government is antisemitic by default is ridiculous. 

 https://archive.ph/dFT7z (from Haaretz.com - Majority of U.S. Jews Uncomfortable With Actions Taken by Israeli Gov't Survey Finds)

Quote

While American-Jews overwhelmingly support Israel, nearly two out of three say they are uncomfortable with actions taken by its government, according to a public opinion survey published on Thursday.

Commissioned by the Jewish Federations of North America, the survey found that 62 percent of Jewish-Americans "sometimes find it hard to support actions taken by Israel and its government."

Nearly a third said they did not feel comfortable supporting Israel in public, the primary reasons being discomfort with the actions of its government, concern about sparking antisemitism and the difficulties of having "a nuanced discussion about the conflict."

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Would you remain of the same mindset if rather than pro-Hamas it was Proud Boys joining? Are you willing to acknowledge that illegal activities are occurring above and beyond the protests?

Do you condone the illegal activities?

Do you acknowledge that pro-Hamas is antisemitic?

Are you aware of any efforts by the Pro-Palestine activists to remove or distance themselves from the pro-hamas attendees?

Do you acknowledge that the point of these activities both criminal and otherwise undermine the entire point and actually take attention away from the issue they and others wish to address?

Yes and so what?
 

eta I am purposefully being flippant because your list of question is absurd given the nature of all that is going on. Are you really going to try to tell me that if you were planning a protest, you would have everyone sign a piece of paper, saying what they were for and against and you would be able to screen out the bad actors based on that?

Edited by Sawbonz
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I did hear one "river to the sea" chant at the UT Austin protest on Monday(?? I think??), but it was short-lived and limited to probably a dozen people. Its certainly inflammatory rhetoric, but lets not pretend there aren't elements within the Pro-Israel movement openly advocating for the removal of all Palestinians from Gaza.  In any case, I hope I can get down to campus on Sunday for a first hand appreciation of what's going down. 

An interesting article I stumbled across today. From what I read, Haaretz represents the more liberal Israeli viewpoint, and i dont know much about the Jewish Federations of North America. But I agree with the bolded part, we don't do nuance very well in today's political climate in the US. Everything is black and white, Israel (or the Palestinians) are 100% right (or 100% wrong). But if that is the sentiment within the Jewish American community, the notion that any criticism of Israel or Netanyahu's government is antisemitic by default is ridiculous. 

 https://archive.ph/dFT7z (from Haaretz.com - Majority of U.S. Jews Uncomfortable With Actions Taken by Israeli Gov't Survey Finds)

 

Thanks for letting me know that it did happen -- I'm happy to hear that it was short-lived, given that it's such a divisive chant. Based on what I know from my Jewish friends, the poll results don't surprise me in the slightest. The bolded, of course, often gets lost among the simple-minded and the hateful. You only have to visit the national protest thread to see the evidence of that in abundance.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Would you remain of the same mindset if rather than pro-Hamas it was Proud Boys joining? Are you willing to acknowledge that illegal activities are occurring above and beyond the protests?

Do you condone the illegal activities?

Do you acknowledge that pro-Hamas is antisemitic?

Are you aware of any efforts by the Pro-Palestine activists to remove or distance themselves from the pro-hamas attendees?

Do you acknowledge that the point of these activities both criminal and otherwise undermine the entire point and actually take attention away from the issue they and others wish to address?

If racist fuckwads diluted a protest I would still support the overall message of the majority of the protest yes.

What power or right do you think pro-Palestine protestors have to remove pro-hamas protestors from a public protest space?? And to that effect are you aware that they haven’t attempted to distance themselves? 
 

Do you actually think that peaceful protests undermine anything when nothing is being done in the first place? What would your suggested alternative be other than sitting on their ass and watching their government support a cause they disagree with? Write their city councilmen? 

Edited by Hank_Hill
Posted
47 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Yes and so what?
 

eta I am purposefully being flippant because your list of question is absurd given the nature of all that is going on. Are you really going to try to tell me that if you were planning a protest, you would have everyone sign a piece of paper, saying what they were for and against and you would be able to screen out the bad actors based on that?

My questions are relevant and clear. I'm asked some very specific questions about YOUR views and you've chosen not to answer them. 

I will however answer yours directly, despite having a post on this same page indicating my position.

1) Were I leading a protest of any sort, ME, I would NOT violate any laws. 

2) Were I leading a protest if would be at a time and place that engaged directly with the companies or government bodies that directly effected my cause.

3) I would proactively have plans in place to make sure that any bad actors joining my protest were ultimately asked to leave or somehow be strongly encouraged to leave. Be it, by internal group request or law enforcement if necessary.

4) If at, any point, I felt my efforts were counter to the ends of the protest and proactively drawing attention AWAY from the effort I would end them immediately.

I would and have expected the same from every protest I've been a part of and any I might join in the future.

This isn't that difficult. 

Posted

 

10 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

 

2) Were I leading a protest if would be at a time and place that engaged directly with the companies or government bodies that directly effected my cause.

 

I’m sure all these protestors across the country would love to be able to communicate their message directly to POTUS, Congress, defense company CEOs. If you’re waiting on that meeting to happen you’re a pretty shitty protest leader. 

Posted
58 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Thanks for letting me know that it did happen -- I'm happy to hear that it was short-lived, given that it's such a divisive chant. Based on what I know from my Jewish friends, the poll results don't surprise me in the slightest. The bolded, of course, often gets lost among the simple-minded and the hateful. You only have to visit the national protest thread to see the evidence of that in abundance.

I agree that the subject is nuanced. I also fund it interesting that if one is against the broad methodology of the protests they must therefore be Pro-Israel in the discussions here and elsewhere. Most here don't seem capable of having a nuanced discussion or admitting things that are counter to whichever side they are on.

So, to be clear, I think protests to bring attention to what I feel was an overreaction by the Israeli Government is merited and fair. 

As a person who grew up with a Jewish stepfather and Jewish siblings I think that ang such protests need to be extremely clear in both their intent and attendees. Yes, you can manage the attendance of your own protest if you chose to do so. I've seen it done in the past.

I think the place and organizing of these protest and the criminal activities also involved are all counter productive the means of the protest. 

It shouldn't be on universities, it should be better organized, the attendees should be better informed, it should be better self policed and that would create an environment that is more productive to the cause rather than drawing attention away from it. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

@BurntEyes, your expectations of a bunch of 20-YO kids are wildly optimistic.

I didn't organize these events. This isn't how I would have gone about it. 

And we've gotten to the crux of the issue. 

Just like Occupy and BLM protest got out of hand due to local and national leadership issues, so shall this.

Posted
12 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

I agree that the subject is nuanced. I also fund it interesting that if one is against the broad methodology of the protests they must therefore be Pro-Israel in the discussions here and elsewhere. Most here don't seem capable of having a nuanced discussion or admitting things that are counter to whichever side they are on.

So, to be clear, I think protests to bring attention to what I feel was an overreaction by the Israeli Government is merited and fair. 

As a person who grew up with a Jewish stepfather and Jewish siblings I think that ang such protests need to be extremely clear in both their intent and attendees. Yes, you can manage the attendance of your own protest if you chose to do so. I've seen it done in the past.

I think the place and organizing of these protest and the criminal activities also involved are all counter productive the means of the protest. 

It shouldn't be on universities, it should be better organized, the attendees should be better informed, it should be better self policed and that would create an environment that is more productive to the cause rather than drawing attention away from it. 

Yeah, I can't remember where I posted my views (maybe in the national thread). At this point, the protests have largely become a distraction from their original purpose, with all sides—protest leaders, college presidents, and politicians alike—now mostly seeking clout among their various supporters, peers, and constituencies. The protests have become more about the protests themselves.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Yeah, I can't remember where I posted my views (maybe in the national thread). At this point, the protests have largely become a distraction from their original purpose, with all sides—protest leaders, college presidents, and politicians alike—now mostly seeking clout among their various supporters, peers, and constituencies. The protests have become more about the protests themselves.

I sadly agree, and of course this being 'Murica the various sides are lining up the usual rhetoric and the social media propaganda machines are cranking up on both sides. Meanwhile, an issue that truly deserves national attention is being basically ignored. 

At this point, I really just hope it doesn't spin up into another national tragedy, but my hope is diminishing daily.

I also don't think this is the last of its kind this year. It's become the political world we live in, and for that I'm greatly saddened. 

I still would like to know who's really driving this ship on the protests. Not many are asking that question.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

I sadly agree, and of course this being 'Murica the various sides are lining up the usual rhetoric and the social media propaganda machines are cranking up on both sides. Meanwhile, an issue that truly deserves national attention is being basically ignored. 

At this point, I really just hope it doesn't spin up into another national tragedy, but my hope is diminishing daily.

I also don't think this is the last of its kind this year. It's become the political world we live in, and for that I'm greatly saddened. 

I still would like to know who's really driving this ship on the protests. Not many are asking that question.

I've seen some speculation, with no proof I should add, that funding and direction could be coming from foreign sources who'd like to see American discord during an election year.

Posted
1 minute ago, bolverk said:

I've seen some speculation, with no proof I should add, that funding and direction could be coming from foreign sources who'd like to see American discord during an election year.

Well that just sounds completely unrealistic 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I've seen some speculation, with no proof I should add, that funding and direction could be coming from foreign sources who'd like to see American discord during an election year.

That and/or internal forces with specific agendas (probably on both sides) would be the best bet.  

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Posted
1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

That and/or internal forces with specific agendas (probably on both sides) would be the best bet.  

 

The info is out there. Just do a search and try to weed out the bias.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

This is cryptic and not very useful, thanks! 

Well, I have little desire for cloak room folly, but here is an example from NBC News:

Who's behind the pro-Palestinian protests that are disrupting Biden's campaign events and blocking city streets?

NBC News examined links to an organization banned by Germany and Israel but found no direct financial ties to any U.S.-designated terrorist groups.
Photo Illustration: Pro Israel and Pro Palestinian protests

Protest organizers say their aims are simple but far-reaching — to push lawmakers to stop giving money and weapons to Israel, while getting Democratic voters to boycott President Joe Biden as retribution for his support of it.Justine Goode / NBC News; Getty Images

 
 
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March 20, 2024, 5:00 AM CDT

In cities across the country, highways have been blocked, trains have been delayed and sections of college campuses have been shut down by hundreds of thousands of people who have taken to the streets.  

They’re protesting Israel’s invasion of Gaza in response to Hamas’ Oct. 7 terrorist attack. Members of the movement say the size of the demonstrations is a response to the killing of more than 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. 

 

Pro-Israel groups, meanwhile, are pushing Congress and federal law enforcement agencies to investigate whether any of the protests across the U.S. are getting money from abroad and whether their leaders have ties to Hamas or other terrorist groups. 

To understand which groups are organizing the protests and any potential ties to foreign groups, NBC News reviewed the tax filings and social media posts of the organizations behind the highest-profile demonstrations, as well as court filings, government reports and legislative hearings related to the pro-Palestinian movement in America. 

Despite accusations by some pro-Israel groups and former U.S. and Israeli government officials of potential ties between protest organizers and terrorist groups, public records show no clear evidence financially linking Hamas or any foreign governments to the American protests.  

What did emerge is a vast network that includes left-leaning, billion-dollar American philanthropies and collaboration with at least one foreign organization that Germany and Israel have banned for allegedly working with or supporting Hamas and another terrorist group. 

The movement overall appears grassroots, with localized efforts that coordinate primarily through social media using apps such as Telegram, X, WhatsApp and Instagram. 

Nerdeen Kiswani is the founder and chair of Within Our Lifetime. Nerdeen Kiswani is the founder and chair of Within Our Lifetime.Simone Weichselbaum / NBC News

Nerdeen Kiswani is emblematic of the movement. Kiswani, 29, a law school graduate, founded the group Within Our Lifetime nearly a decade ago to build a community for young people who want to raise awareness for the Palestinian cause. With little more than social media posts, Kiswani, a Palestinian American activist raised in Brooklyn, New York, can attract thousands of New Yorkers to clog shopping districts, transit hubs and even roads to the airport — and bring them to a standstill. 

“I just support the Palestinian people as a whole, and I believe that we have the right to resist,” Kiswani said. “If they’re mad at it, they can talk to Biden, they can talk to the secretary of state, they can talk to the elected officials who keep funding wars abroad, who keep funding death and killing in our name, with our tax dollars.” 

‘Feel the heat’

Protest organizers say their aims are simple but far-reaching: to push lawmakers to stop giving money and weapons to Israel while getting Democratic voters to boycott President Joe Biden as political retribution for his support of Israel as large numbers of Gazans are being killed.  

The goal of the demonstrations is to make “the Democrats feel the heat, not only from the mass protests, but also from the people who are being stopped in the streets, who aren’t making it to work on time,” said Hatem Abudayyeh, the national chair of the U.S. Palestinian Community Network, which has organized street protests in Chicago, Cleveland and Detroit.  

And it is having an effect. Biden has taken extraordinary steps to avoid protesters at public and campaign events, NBC News recently reported. During the Democratic primary in Michigan, which has a large Muslim population, more than 101,000 voters marked “uncommitted” on their ballots. In 2020, just under 1,300 voters checked the box.  

“At least with Trump, we know what we’re dealing with,” Kiswani said. “We know that he’s been anti-Palestinian. With Biden, you know, he literally can kill 30,000 of us and still pretend that he’s a friend.” 

Following the money 

Several of the pro-Palestinian organizations, including Within Our Lifetime and the U.S. Palestinian Community Network, do not have public tax filings. However, they and several other groups use a progressive nonprofit group based in New York called Westchester People’s Action Coalition Foundation, or WESPAC, as their fiscal sponsor to collect and process online donations. U.S. tax law allows nonprofit groups with 501(c)(3) status to collect money on behalf of smaller groups. 

Howard Horowitz, WESPAC’s board chair, declined to share its financial filings for the organizations it sponsors. 

“Isn’t the big story the ongoing genocide in Gaza?” Horowitz said in an email. 

Other groups have backing from major U.S. foundations. IfNotNow, an organization with the stated aim to “end U.S. support for Israel’s apartheid system,” was awarded $100,000 during the past five years by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, a decades-old philanthropy based in New York. The fund has awarded close to a half-million dollars over the same period to Jewish Voice for Peace, another Palestinian rights organization. 

“I think protests and civil disobedience, as long as it’s nonviolent, is an effective tool, and that’s why we support some groups that use that tool,” said Stephen Heintz, the president and CEO of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.  

The Open Society Foundation, established by George Soros, has also given grants to Jewish Voice for Peace. A spokesperson said the foundation’s goal is to help establish lasting peace in the region

 
 
New York Police arrest several people during Pro-Palestinian demonstration In a march organized by Within Our Lifetime and co-sponsored by Samidoun, according to Within Our Lifetime, pro-Palestinian protesters rallied in midtown Manhattan on Dec. 25. Selcuk Acar / Anadolu via Getty Images
 
 

Jewish Voice for Peace has organized hundreds of protests across the country with tens of thousands of participants since the invasion of Gaza. While its events are generally peaceful, it has come under criticism for some actions, including inviting convicted terrorist Rasmea Odeh to speak at a national event in 2017.  

Odeh’s supporters say Israel tortured her into a false confession. Odeh was a founding member of the Chicago chapter of the U.S. Palestinian Community Network before U.S. officials deported her in 2017 for failing to disclose a terrorism conviction in Israel. 

Stefanie Fox, Jewish Voice for Peace’s executive director, said people must think critically about the U.S. government’s history of applying the word “terrorism” to specific communities. “International law recognizes the rights of occupied peoples to resist their oppression, including through the use of force within clear parameters that always protect civilians in conflict,” Fox said.  

In 2020, Zoom, Facebook and YouTube shut down an online event featuring Leila Khaled, a Palestinian activist who spent time in prison for hijacking planes. In a statement condemning censorship, Jewish Voice for Peace called her a “Palestinian resistance icon” and slammed the tech companies. 

According to congressional testimony, public statements and interviews, current and former government officials in the U.S., Europe, Israel and Canada claim that some leaders of the pro-Palestinian protest movement promote rhetoric from Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, or PFLP. They also say some groups work with members of the PFLP. The State Department has designated both groups as terrorist organizations.  

On and after the Oct. 7 attacks, when about 1,200 people were killed and more than 240 were taken hostage, the PFLP’s military wing, the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, claimed on Telegram that it had participated in the carnage. It urged other Palestinians to join it. Federal investigators in Washington, D.C., said they do not dispute the PFLP’s claim that it participated in the attack. 

Jonathan Schanzer, a former Treasury Department official, called for more aggressive investigation of ties between pro-Palestinian groups in the U.S. and terrorist organizations in testimony to Congress in November. 

“Individuals who previously worked for Hamas charities are now a driving force behind the large pro-Hamas demonstrations taking place in major cities across America,” said Schanzer, who is now senior vice president at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.  

Schanzer cited Hatem Bazian, a longtime lecturer at the University of California Berkeley, as an example. Bazian founded the national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine to focus on campus-based activism, and he later launched American Muslims for Palestine. Both groups advocate for the U.S. government to end its support of Israel. 

Dr. Hatem Bazian, Chairman of American Muslims for Palestine (AMP) speaks at a news conference at the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) Harlem-125th Street Metro North commuter train station to launch an advertisement campaign criticizing Israel and U.S. support for Israel in New York City on March 26, 2013. Hatem Bazian, chairman of American Muslims for Palestine, speaks at a news conference to launch an advertisement campaign criticizing Israel and U.S. support for it in New York City on March 26, 2013.Mike Seger / Reuters

Schanzer argued that Bazian and his organizations are part of a network that is “providing training, talking points, materials and financial support to students intimidating and threatening Jewish and pro-Israel students on college campuses.” 

The attorney general’s office of Virginia, where American Muslims for Palestine is headquartered, also opened an investigation of the group after an Israeli American family accused it of potentially using funds to benefit terrorist organizations. 

The attorney general’s office said it could not comment on an open investigation. Bazian said the allegations from Capitol Hill and Virginia are false. 

“You are guilty because you passed by someone who was eating a shawarma, who is connected to somebody who lives in Gaza, who knows somebody who might be a member of Hamas,” Bazian said. “That’s basically where we are at.” 

Samidoun

Officials concerned about hidden links to terrorist groups point to a little-known international organization called Samidoun, the Arabic word for “steadfast.”  

On its website, the Canadian-registered nonprofit group describes itself as “an international network of organizers and activists working to build solidarity with Palestinian prisoners in their struggle for freedom.” 

But the Israeli government and several think tanks in Europe and Israel say Samidoun’s leadership is composed of current and former members of the PFLP. Germany banned Samidoun a few weeks after the Oct. 7 attacks, arguing that Samidoun members had praised and supported Hamas during street protests.  

The Israeli government declared Samidoun a terrorist organization in 2021. “They support terrorism, and they want to gain public opinion — support — for terrorism,” said Yossi Kuperwasser, the former chief of the research division in the Israel Defense Forces’ military intelligence wing.  

The group’s international coordinator, Charlotte Kates, originally from New Jersey, is listed as one of three directors on Samidoun’s nonprofit registration in Canada. She did not respond to multiple requests for comment. Other members of Samidoun’s leadership in Canada and in Europe also did not respond. 

But Samidoun does not hide its activities. In a Feb. 27 YouTube video in which Kates is featured along with Dr. Basem Naim, a senior Hamas official, Kates described the Oct. 7 attacks as a “heroic operation.” In another February webinar on YouTube, she spoke to activists in New York and explained why her organization does not distance itself from Hamas or other groups deemed terrorists by the U.S. and Israel. 

“What we see here is an alliance — an alliance of forces that is working together for a different future for the region that is free of U.S. imperialism and it is free of Zionist colonialism,” Kates told viewers. “And these forces of resistance, right now, are in the front lines of defending humanity.” 

Kiswani, the New York-based activist, was featured in a 2020 Samidoun YouTube video in which she said “Zionists” had flooded her law school administration with emails claiming she is antisemitic. School officials cleared her of any wrongdoing. 

Since Oct. 7, Samidoun has co-sponsored or co-organized at least three protests led by Within Our Lifetime and another group called the Palestinian Youth Movement, according to online flyers posted by the two organizations. Samidoun has “compiled a lot of history, things that we use in the movement to talk about Palestinian prisoners, and so we respect and appreciate them for that work,” Kiswani said. 

There are active campaigns in Canada and in the European Union to ban Samidoun and have it classified as a terrorist organization. “I ain’t Jewish or Palestinian; I don’t have a stake in this,” said Leo Housakos, a member of Canada’s Senate, who has been pushing his government to shut down Samidoun and deport its leadership. “I feel strongly about a sense of security.” 

A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment about whether the agency is investigating Samidoun. The FBI also declined to comment. 

Protected speech

Civil rights experts said that in the U.S., unlike countries with stricter hate speech laws, activist groups such as Samidoun can express their views more freely, as long as they are not working directly with designated terrorist groups. 

“Even if you literally were advocating entirely, unambiguously pro-Hamas views in favor of all of their tactics, [it] is protected so long as the speaker is not coordinating with Hamas itself,” said Ahilan Arulanantham, a UCLA law professor who has represented detained immigrants and Muslim Americans in civil rights cases before the Supreme Court three times since 2016. 

Federal officials say fine lines separate protected speech, hate speech and incitement. Federal prosecutors can prosecute speech if it rises to the level of clear threats of violence when stated specifically and if violent actions are being planned. Hate speech alone is not enough to deem a person or an organization a terrorist. 

“Unlike many of our foreign partners, the United States, under the First Amendment, cannot designate organizations based solely on hateful speech,” Vincent Picard, a spokesman for the State Department’s Bureau of Counterterrorism, said by email. “The Secretary of State must determine that it is a foreign organization that engages in terrorist activity that threatens the security of United States nationals.” 

While governments may lack the power to shut down most of these groups, private industry has more leeway, as shown last month when Instagram took down Within Our Lifetime’s accounts. A spokesperson for Meta, which owns Instagram, said the group violated community guidelines, which included the platform’s Dangerous Organizations & Individuals policy. 

“Meta is choosing to implement this during a genocide,” Kiswani said. 

 
 
Pro-Palestinian demonstration at JFK airport Pro-Palestinian demonstrators at a protest organized by Within Our Lifetime and co-sponsored by Samidoun at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York on Jan. 1.Selcuk Acar / Anadolu via Getty Images
 
 

Deplatforming campaign 

Former federal officials say that as presidential administrations have prioritized fighting the Islamic State terrorist group and domestic extremism in recent years, law enforcement agencies have made investigating ties between U.S groups and Hamas or the PFLP less of a priority. 

Frustrated with the lack of U.S. government action, pro-Israeli legal activists launched a campaign in 2021 targeting Samidoun’s fundraising efforts in North America. They focused on the Alliance for Global Justice, an Arizona-based nonprofit group whose stated mission is to foster “social change and economic justice,” which served as Samidoun’s fiscal sponsor. 

Zachor Legal Institute, an organization based in Montana, led the deplatforming effort, writing letters to Visa, Mastercard, PayPal and other financial companies. 

“We say: ‘There’s a terror-connected group that uses this system, and as a result, you’re facilitating donations to terror groups. You should look into that because this is a violation of federal law,’” said Marc Greendorfer, the founder of Zachor. “I’m only in this to defend the rights of Jews to be a people.” 

Samidoun’s online donation page says it is now disabled and directs users to send written checks to the Alliance for Global Justice, which did not respond to requests for comment. 

With Samidoun unable to collect donations online, pro-Israel groups have turned their attention toward WESPAC, the New York nonprofit group that serves as a fiscal sponsor for several protest groups and processes their online donations, including the national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine. 

Charles Asher Small, the founder and director of the Institute for the Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy, a nonprofit research group, names WESPAC in a forthcoming report. In an interview, he said the problem goes beyond antisemitism. “The ideology that these people are fighting for is anti-democratic,” he said.  

The pro-Israel institute previously shared research with the Trump administration to investigate funding streams for pro-Palestinian organizations. 

But Mike German, a former FBI agent who has accused the bureau of conducting excessive surveillance of Muslim Americans, said counterterrorism experts’ practice of linking anti-Israel protesters to terrorist groups is fraught. 

“They’re targeting people who are two or three degrees away from people who are committing harm,” said German, now a fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law. “It’s a way of demonizing protest movements and political ideologies that challenge government power.” 

1993 World Trade Center bombing

U.S. law enforcement agencies began looking in earnest for financial links between foreign organizations and U.S.-based Muslim charities after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The FBI spent the next 10 years investigating the Texas-based Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, at the time one of the country’s largest Muslim charities.  

Several Palestinian American men were charged with money laundering and providing material support to Hamas. A federal judge sentenced five men — the “Holy Land Five” — to prison sentences of 15 to 65 years. 

In 2018, the Trump administration began reviewing the activities of protest groups that Jewish leaders and federal officials had flagged as antisemitic and anti-Israel. It was preparing to open investigations into some groups’ ties to foreign funds and leadership, but officials said the inquiry was cut short by the Covid-19 pandemic. 

“We were working on developing programs and responses to try and expose it and get to the root of it,” said Reed Rubinstein, a Trump administration official who led antisemitism investigations at both the Justice and Education departments. 

In 2019, the Israeli government said in a report that Hamas and PFLP operatives were working in humanitarian organizations in the Middle East, Europe and Canada focused on Palestinian rights, with the ideological goal of “elimination of the State of Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people.” 

A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment on whether the agency was conducting any ongoing investigations. 

Free speech protections often inhibit federal prosecutors from criminalizing speech, but they have greater latitude to investigate whether a person provided “material support” to a group designated as a terrorist organization by the U.S. government, like Hamas. Material support includes giving financial assistance, expert advice, training and weapons. 

Legal advocates have argued in court that the federal material support law is too vague. They say it unfairly targets humanitarian agencies and activists who are aiding families in Gaza, the occupied West Bank and other parts of the Middle East. 

Muslim American organizations, meanwhile, say they are being flooded with reports of anti-Muslim bias since Israel invaded Gaza. The Council on American-Islamic Relations reported a rise in incidents of anti-Muslim bigotry at school, at work, after attending street protests or in criticizing Israel online. 

“It’s a trope at this point that if you’re a Muslim who speaks up for Palestinian human rights and freedom, you’re going to be accused of being a terrorist,” said Edward Ahmed Mitchell, CAIR’s national deputy director.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Well, I have little desire for cloak room folly, but here is an example from NBC News:

Who's behind the pro-Palestinian protests that are disrupting Biden's campaign events and blocking city streets?

NBC News examined links to an organization banned by Germany and Israel but found no direct financial ties to any U.S.-designated terrorist groups.
Photo Illustration: Pro Israel and Pro Palestinian protests

Protest organizers say their aims are simple but far-reaching — to push lawmakers to stop giving money and weapons to Israel, while getting Democratic voters to boycott President Joe Biden as retribution for his support of it.Justine Goode / NBC News; Getty Images

 
 
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March 20, 2024, 5:00 AM CDT

In cities across the country, highways have been blocked, trains have been delayed and sections of college campuses have been shut down by hundreds of thousands of people who have taken to the streets.  

They’re protesting Israel’s invasion of Gaza in response to Hamas’ Oct. 7 terrorist attack. Members of the movement say the size of the demonstrations is a response to the killing of more than 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. 

 

Pro-Israel groups, meanwhile, are pushing Congress and federal law enforcement agencies to investigate whether any of the protests across the U.S. are getting money from abroad and whether their leaders have ties to Hamas or other terrorist groups. 

To understand which groups are organizing the protests and any potential ties to foreign groups, NBC News reviewed the tax filings and social media posts of the organizations behind the highest-profile demonstrations, as well as court filings, government reports and legislative hearings related to the pro-Palestinian movement in America. 

Despite accusations by some pro-Israel groups and former U.S. and Israeli government officials of potential ties between protest organizers and terrorist groups, public records show no clear evidence financially linking Hamas or any foreign governments to the American protests.  

What did emerge is a vast network that includes left-leaning, billion-dollar American philanthropies and collaboration with at least one foreign organization that Germany and Israel have banned for allegedly working with or supporting Hamas and another terrorist group. 

The movement overall appears grassroots, with localized efforts that coordinate primarily through social media using apps such as Telegram, X, WhatsApp and Instagram. 

Nerdeen Kiswani is the founder and chair of Within Our Lifetime. Nerdeen Kiswani is the founder and chair of Within Our Lifetime.Simone Weichselbaum / NBC News

Nerdeen Kiswani is emblematic of the movement. Kiswani, 29, a law school graduate, founded the group Within Our Lifetime nearly a decade ago to build a community for young people who want to raise awareness for the Palestinian cause. With little more than social media posts, Kiswani, a Palestinian American activist raised in Brooklyn, New York, can attract thousands of New Yorkers to clog shopping districts, transit hubs and even roads to the airport — and bring them to a standstill. 

“I just support the Palestinian people as a whole, and I believe that we have the right to resist,” Kiswani said. “If they’re mad at it, they can talk to Biden, they can talk to the secretary of state, they can talk to the elected officials who keep funding wars abroad, who keep funding death and killing in our name, with our tax dollars.” 

‘Feel the heat’

Protest organizers say their aims are simple but far-reaching: to push lawmakers to stop giving money and weapons to Israel while getting Democratic voters to boycott President Joe Biden as political retribution for his support of Israel as large numbers of Gazans are being killed.  

The goal of the demonstrations is to make “the Democrats feel the heat, not only from the mass protests, but also from the people who are being stopped in the streets, who aren’t making it to work on time,” said Hatem Abudayyeh, the national chair of the U.S. Palestinian Community Network, which has organized street protests in Chicago, Cleveland and Detroit.  

And it is having an effect. Biden has taken extraordinary steps to avoid protesters at public and campaign events, NBC News recently reported. During the Democratic primary in Michigan, which has a large Muslim population, more than 101,000 voters marked “uncommitted” on their ballots. In 2020, just under 1,300 voters checked the box.  

“At least with Trump, we know what we’re dealing with,” Kiswani said. “We know that he’s been anti-Palestinian. With Biden, you know, he literally can kill 30,000 of us and still pretend that he’s a friend.” 

Following the money 

Several of the pro-Palestinian organizations, including Within Our Lifetime and the U.S. Palestinian Community Network, do not have public tax filings. However, they and several other groups use a progressive nonprofit group based in New York called Westchester People’s Action Coalition Foundation, or WESPAC, as their fiscal sponsor to collect and process online donations. U.S. tax law allows nonprofit groups with 501(c)(3) status to collect money on behalf of smaller groups. 

Howard Horowitz, WESPAC’s board chair, declined to share its financial filings for the organizations it sponsors. 

“Isn’t the big story the ongoing genocide in Gaza?” Horowitz said in an email. 

Other groups have backing from major U.S. foundations. IfNotNow, an organization with the stated aim to “end U.S. support for Israel’s apartheid system,” was awarded $100,000 during the past five years by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, a decades-old philanthropy based in New York. The fund has awarded close to a half-million dollars over the same period to Jewish Voice for Peace, another Palestinian rights organization. 

“I think protests and civil disobedience, as long as it’s nonviolent, is an effective tool, and that’s why we support some groups that use that tool,” said Stephen Heintz, the president and CEO of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.  

The Open Society Foundation, established by George Soros, has also given grants to Jewish Voice for Peace. A spokesperson said the foundation’s goal is to help establish lasting peace in the region

 
 
New York Police arrest several people during Pro-Palestinian demonstration In a march organized by Within Our Lifetime and co-sponsored by Samidoun, according to Within Our Lifetime, pro-Palestinian protesters rallied in midtown Manhattan on Dec. 25. Selcuk Acar / Anadolu via Getty Images
 
 

Jewish Voice for Peace has organized hundreds of protests across the country with tens of thousands of participants since the invasion of Gaza. While its events are generally peaceful, it has come under criticism for some actions, including inviting convicted terrorist Rasmea Odeh to speak at a national event in 2017.  

Odeh’s supporters say Israel tortured her into a false confession. Odeh was a founding member of the Chicago chapter of the U.S. Palestinian Community Network before U.S. officials deported her in 2017 for failing to disclose a terrorism conviction in Israel. 

Stefanie Fox, Jewish Voice for Peace’s executive director, said people must think critically about the U.S. government’s history of applying the word “terrorism” to specific communities. “International law recognizes the rights of occupied peoples to resist their oppression, including through the use of force within clear parameters that always protect civilians in conflict,” Fox said.  

In 2020, Zoom, Facebook and YouTube shut down an online event featuring Leila Khaled, a Palestinian activist who spent time in prison for hijacking planes. In a statement condemning censorship, Jewish Voice for Peace called her a “Palestinian resistance icon” and slammed the tech companies. 

According to congressional testimony, public statements and interviews, current and former government officials in the U.S., Europe, Israel and Canada claim that some leaders of the pro-Palestinian protest movement promote rhetoric from Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, or PFLP. They also say some groups work with members of the PFLP. The State Department has designated both groups as terrorist organizations.  

On and after the Oct. 7 attacks, when about 1,200 people were killed and more than 240 were taken hostage, the PFLP’s military wing, the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, claimed on Telegram that it had participated in the carnage. It urged other Palestinians to join it. Federal investigators in Washington, D.C., said they do not dispute the PFLP’s claim that it participated in the attack. 

Jonathan Schanzer, a former Treasury Department official, called for more aggressive investigation of ties between pro-Palestinian groups in the U.S. and terrorist organizations in testimony to Congress in November. 

“Individuals who previously worked for Hamas charities are now a driving force behind the large pro-Hamas demonstrations taking place in major cities across America,” said Schanzer, who is now senior vice president at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.  

Schanzer cited Hatem Bazian, a longtime lecturer at the University of California Berkeley, as an example. Bazian founded the national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine to focus on campus-based activism, and he later launched American Muslims for Palestine. Both groups advocate for the U.S. government to end its support of Israel. 

Dr. Hatem Bazian, Chairman of American Muslims for Palestine (AMP) speaks at a news conference at the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) Harlem-125th Street Metro North commuter train station to launch an advertisement campaign criticizing Israel and U.S. support for Israel in New York City on March 26, 2013. Hatem Bazian, chairman of American Muslims for Palestine, speaks at a news conference to launch an advertisement campaign criticizing Israel and U.S. support for it in New York City on March 26, 2013.Mike Seger / Reuters

Schanzer argued that Bazian and his organizations are part of a network that is “providing training, talking points, materials and financial support to students intimidating and threatening Jewish and pro-Israel students on college campuses.” 

The attorney general’s office of Virginia, where American Muslims for Palestine is headquartered, also opened an investigation of the group after an Israeli American family accused it of potentially using funds to benefit terrorist organizations. 

The attorney general’s office said it could not comment on an open investigation. Bazian said the allegations from Capitol Hill and Virginia are false. 

“You are guilty because you passed by someone who was eating a shawarma, who is connected to somebody who lives in Gaza, who knows somebody who might be a member of Hamas,” Bazian said. “That’s basically where we are at.” 

Samidoun

Officials concerned about hidden links to terrorist groups point to a little-known international organization called Samidoun, the Arabic word for “steadfast.”  

On its website, the Canadian-registered nonprofit group describes itself as “an international network of organizers and activists working to build solidarity with Palestinian prisoners in their struggle for freedom.” 

But the Israeli government and several think tanks in Europe and Israel say Samidoun’s leadership is composed of current and former members of the PFLP. Germany banned Samidoun a few weeks after the Oct. 7 attacks, arguing that Samidoun members had praised and supported Hamas during street protests.  

The Israeli government declared Samidoun a terrorist organization in 2021. “They support terrorism, and they want to gain public opinion — support — for terrorism,” said Yossi Kuperwasser, the former chief of the research division in the Israel Defense Forces’ military intelligence wing.  

The group’s international coordinator, Charlotte Kates, originally from New Jersey, is listed as one of three directors on Samidoun’s nonprofit registration in Canada. She did not respond to multiple requests for comment. Other members of Samidoun’s leadership in Canada and in Europe also did not respond. 

But Samidoun does not hide its activities. In a Feb. 27 YouTube video in which Kates is featured along with Dr. Basem Naim, a senior Hamas official, Kates described the Oct. 7 attacks as a “heroic operation.” In another February webinar on YouTube, she spoke to activists in New York and explained why her organization does not distance itself from Hamas or other groups deemed terrorists by the U.S. and Israel. 

“What we see here is an alliance — an alliance of forces that is working together for a different future for the region that is free of U.S. imperialism and it is free of Zionist colonialism,” Kates told viewers. “And these forces of resistance, right now, are in the front lines of defending humanity.” 

Kiswani, the New York-based activist, was featured in a 2020 Samidoun YouTube video in which she said “Zionists” had flooded her law school administration with emails claiming she is antisemitic. School officials cleared her of any wrongdoing. 

Since Oct. 7, Samidoun has co-sponsored or co-organized at least three protests led by Within Our Lifetime and another group called the Palestinian Youth Movement, according to online flyers posted by the two organizations. Samidoun has “compiled a lot of history, things that we use in the movement to talk about Palestinian prisoners, and so we respect and appreciate them for that work,” Kiswani said. 

There are active campaigns in Canada and in the European Union to ban Samidoun and have it classified as a terrorist organization. “I ain’t Jewish or Palestinian; I don’t have a stake in this,” said Leo Housakos, a member of Canada’s Senate, who has been pushing his government to shut down Samidoun and deport its leadership. “I feel strongly about a sense of security.” 

A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment about whether the agency is investigating Samidoun. The FBI also declined to comment. 

Protected speech

Civil rights experts said that in the U.S., unlike countries with stricter hate speech laws, activist groups such as Samidoun can express their views more freely, as long as they are not working directly with designated terrorist groups. 

“Even if you literally were advocating entirely, unambiguously pro-Hamas views in favor of all of their tactics, [it] is protected so long as the speaker is not coordinating with Hamas itself,” said Ahilan Arulanantham, a UCLA law professor who has represented detained immigrants and Muslim Americans in civil rights cases before the Supreme Court three times since 2016. 

Federal officials say fine lines separate protected speech, hate speech and incitement. Federal prosecutors can prosecute speech if it rises to the level of clear threats of violence when stated specifically and if violent actions are being planned. Hate speech alone is not enough to deem a person or an organization a terrorist. 

“Unlike many of our foreign partners, the United States, under the First Amendment, cannot designate organizations based solely on hateful speech,” Vincent Picard, a spokesman for the State Department’s Bureau of Counterterrorism, said by email. “The Secretary of State must determine that it is a foreign organization that engages in terrorist activity that threatens the security of United States nationals.” 

While governments may lack the power to shut down most of these groups, private industry has more leeway, as shown last month when Instagram took down Within Our Lifetime’s accounts. A spokesperson for Meta, which owns Instagram, said the group violated community guidelines, which included the platform’s Dangerous Organizations & Individuals policy. 

“Meta is choosing to implement this during a genocide,” Kiswani said. 

 
 
Pro-Palestinian demonstration at JFK airport Pro-Palestinian demonstrators at a protest organized by Within Our Lifetime and co-sponsored by Samidoun at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York on Jan. 1.Selcuk Acar / Anadolu via Getty Images
 
 

Deplatforming campaign 

Former federal officials say that as presidential administrations have prioritized fighting the Islamic State terrorist group and domestic extremism in recent years, law enforcement agencies have made investigating ties between U.S groups and Hamas or the PFLP less of a priority. 

Frustrated with the lack of U.S. government action, pro-Israeli legal activists launched a campaign in 2021 targeting Samidoun’s fundraising efforts in North America. They focused on the Alliance for Global Justice, an Arizona-based nonprofit group whose stated mission is to foster “social change and economic justice,” which served as Samidoun’s fiscal sponsor. 

Zachor Legal Institute, an organization based in Montana, led the deplatforming effort, writing letters to Visa, Mastercard, PayPal and other financial companies. 

“We say: ‘There’s a terror-connected group that uses this system, and as a result, you’re facilitating donations to terror groups. You should look into that because this is a violation of federal law,’” said Marc Greendorfer, the founder of Zachor. “I’m only in this to defend the rights of Jews to be a people.” 

Samidoun’s online donation page says it is now disabled and directs users to send written checks to the Alliance for Global Justice, which did not respond to requests for comment. 

With Samidoun unable to collect donations online, pro-Israel groups have turned their attention toward WESPAC, the New York nonprofit group that serves as a fiscal sponsor for several protest groups and processes their online donations, including the national branch of Students for Justice in Palestine. 

Charles Asher Small, the founder and director of the Institute for the Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy, a nonprofit research group, names WESPAC in a forthcoming report. In an interview, he said the problem goes beyond antisemitism. “The ideology that these people are fighting for is anti-democratic,” he said.  

The pro-Israel institute previously shared research with the Trump administration to investigate funding streams for pro-Palestinian organizations. 

But Mike German, a former FBI agent who has accused the bureau of conducting excessive surveillance of Muslim Americans, said counterterrorism experts’ practice of linking anti-Israel protesters to terrorist groups is fraught. 

“They’re targeting people who are two or three degrees away from people who are committing harm,” said German, now a fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law. “It’s a way of demonizing protest movements and political ideologies that challenge government power.” 

1993 World Trade Center bombing

U.S. law enforcement agencies began looking in earnest for financial links between foreign organizations and U.S.-based Muslim charities after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The FBI spent the next 10 years investigating the Texas-based Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, at the time one of the country’s largest Muslim charities.  

Several Palestinian American men were charged with money laundering and providing material support to Hamas. A federal judge sentenced five men — the “Holy Land Five” — to prison sentences of 15 to 65 years. 

In 2018, the Trump administration began reviewing the activities of protest groups that Jewish leaders and federal officials had flagged as antisemitic and anti-Israel. It was preparing to open investigations into some groups’ ties to foreign funds and leadership, but officials said the inquiry was cut short by the Covid-19 pandemic. 

“We were working on developing programs and responses to try and expose it and get to the root of it,” said Reed Rubinstein, a Trump administration official who led antisemitism investigations at both the Justice and Education departments. 

In 2019, the Israeli government said in a report that Hamas and PFLP operatives were working in humanitarian organizations in the Middle East, Europe and Canada focused on Palestinian rights, with the ideological goal of “elimination of the State of Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people.” 

A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment on whether the agency was conducting any ongoing investigations. 

Free speech protections often inhibit federal prosecutors from criminalizing speech, but they have greater latitude to investigate whether a person provided “material support” to a group designated as a terrorist organization by the U.S. government, like Hamas. Material support includes giving financial assistance, expert advice, training and weapons. 

Legal advocates have argued in court that the federal material support law is too vague. They say it unfairly targets humanitarian agencies and activists who are aiding families in Gaza, the occupied West Bank and other parts of the Middle East. 

Muslim American organizations, meanwhile, say they are being flooded with reports of anti-Muslim bias since Israel invaded Gaza. The Council on American-Islamic Relations reported a rise in incidents of anti-Muslim bigotry at school, at work, after attending street protests or in criticizing Israel online. 

“It’s a trope at this point that if you’re a Muslim who speaks up for Palestinian human rights and freedom, you’re going to be accused of being a terrorist,” said Edward Ahmed Mitchell, CAIR’s national deputy director.

I find it remarkable that although the pro-Palestine movement has many eloquent and impassioned advocates to choose from with pristine backgrounds and unquestioned devotion to peace and tolerance, so many of these groups insist on inviting convicted terrorists and hijackers to be headliners. 
 

That’s not tongue in cheek, I’m really mystified because I don’t think most grassroots Palestine supporters are clamoring to hear from them.  Clearly there is a strong impetus within the leadership of some groups that they need to normalize those people and that this goal is more valuable than the media blowback from putting a plane hijacker on the stage with you. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I find it remarkable that although the pro-Palestine movement has many eloquent and impassioned advocates to choose from with pristine backgrounds and unquestioned devotion to peace and tolerance, so many of these groups insist on inviting convicted terrorists and hijackers to be headliners. 
 

That’s not tongue in cheek, I’m really mystified because I don’t think most grassroots Palestine supporters are clamoring to hear from them.  Clearly there is a strong impetus within the leadership of some groups that they need to normalize those people and that this goal is more valuable than the media blowback from putting a plane hijacker on the stage with you. 

 

There isn't blowback - at best maybe it slows momentum.

I'm mystified at the Jewish supporters - like the head of ANSWER - who is a Marxist but was a Dem politician in Connecticut and founded a respected Jewish organization at his synagogue. I think his goal is anarchy in the US.

And the Jewish organization mentioned in the article - that doesn't believe in a Jewish state for biblical reasons.

I get being against Palestinian oppression. I get Marxist ideas. I get the biblical discussion.

But, I don't get how you can rally with an organization and with people who at very best don't give a fuck about you or your family. I know it gets back to the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But to participate in rallies and perhaps fund rallies that openly chant against you is mystifying.

hDSp5U.gif.0ff76c663234dd149d60cfe36d4d1961.gif

 

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Edited just now by MissingInAction
Dumbass

Might have served you better to keep the misspelling.

Posted (edited)

Another violent attack on a Muslim UT student last month, in addition to the stabbing, happened in February. 

CAIR-Austin calls for APD to investigate alleged attack of Muslim UT student as hate crime

The Council on American-Islamic Relations is calling on the Austin Police Department to investigate an alleged attack against a Muslim University of Texas student as a hate crime.

Austin police confirmed to the American-Statesman on Tuesday that it became aware of a bias-motivated incident near UT's campus through its online reporting system, and the Police Department said officers are investigating the reported incident and will forward any relevant information to the department's Hate Crime Committee.

"If a crime has been committed and the Hate Crime Committee determined that they believe the crime was committed due to bias or prejudice, then they will inform the FBI of the incident," the department said. "If charges are pressed or an arrest is made, the Hate Crime Committee also informs the prosecutor’s office."

The alleged attack happened Friday night when a student dressed in a kurta shalwar — traditional attire associated with the South Asian Muslim community — was approached by three men as the student walked back to campus from a local mosque, according to CAIR-Austin, the local branch of the largest national Muslim rights and advocacy organization.

CAIR-Austin in a news conference Tuesday said the men began yelling in mock Arabic and blocked the student and his friend's path. The aggression then escalated to violence, when the men allegedly punched the student, and one assailant told them he had a weapon.

"No human being should feel unsafe wearing their traditional clothes in public," said Shaimaa Zayan, the operations manager of CAIR-Austin. "And when this happens in Austin, a city that cherishes cultural diversity, it's even more traumatizing."

Zayan said the student suffered a busted lip and cuts on his jaw, but the emotional wounds to the student and the Muslim community are much deeper.

"The mental hurts will be bigger and longer term than the physical hurt of this incident," Zayan said. "Not only on the student, the victim student, but also for all the Muslims and Arabs and all the diverse students who go to Austin. It just creates an unsafe environment for everyone."

cont'd:

Spoiler

A spokesperson for Mayor Kirk Watson's office told the Statesman that the case will be discussed at the Hate Crimes Task Force's monthly meeting Thursday and potentially at its next one, too, as officials investigate the incident. The Police Department did not provide the police report to the Statesman by Tuesday afternoon.

CAIR-Austin representatives at the news conference said the Friday attack brought up memories of the February stabbing of Zacharia Doar, a 23-year-old Palestinian American coming back from a Sunday protest and evening prayer, which the Austin police Hate Crime Review Committee determined was a hate crime. The case is currently awaiting trial.

At UT, students were also harassed at a Palestine Solidarity Committee hearing in October by men claiming to be Israeli Defense Forces soldiers. Both Jewish and Muslim students have said they've felt unsafe showing their identity on campus because of tensions related to the Israel-Hamas war.

According to its 2024 civil rights report released April 2, CAIR in 2023 recorded the highest number of anti-Muslim complaints in its 30-year history. In 2023, the organization received more than 8,000 complaints, nearly half of which were reported in the last three months of the year.

The Austin for Palestine Coalition emailed city and university officials, including both Watson and UT President Jay Hartzell, on Monday demanding that they attend its news conference Tuesday to publicly condemn the violence against Muslim Americans.

Neither attended, but in a statement to the Statesman on Tuesday morning, UT said it is aware of the allegations and has contacted Muslim organizations and community members as well as the individuals involved to "offer support and any necessary services."

"We are aware from outside sources of an allegation of a hate-filled verbal conflict escalating to physical contact with two of our students. Austin Police Department is investigating whether a crime occurred," the university said in its statement. "UT remains committed to the safety and well-being of every member of our University community and has no tolerance for violence or other hateful actions against any of our community members, including those in our Muslim, Palestinian, and Arab communities."

Austin city spokesperson Alicia Dean said in an emailed statement Tuesday that the city has no tolerance for hate, and she pointed to an initiative the city launched in July called "We All Belong," a resource hub where people can find support and file nonemergency incident and police reports.

"Acts of hate are unacceptable in our City," Dean said. "We started the Citywide We All Belong anti-hate initiative as part of our commitment to keep Austin a safe and welcoming place."

Hanna Barakat, a speaker from the Austin for Palestine Coalition, said Senate Bill 17, a state law banning diversity, equity and inclusion offices at public universities and colleges, and Gov. Greg Abbott's executive order calling for colleges to fight antisemitism by revising free speech policies and enforcing them against pro-Palestinian groups and students, "fuel anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia putting these populations at risk while openly favoring other groups."

"Every student and every person in Texas deserves equal protection and safety, and it is the duty of local and state government to ensure it," Barakat said.

Abbott's office did not respond to a Statesman request for comment Tuesday.

Barakat said the alleged attack was particularly scary because it was during Ramadan, a holy month celebrated this year from March 10 to sundown Tuesday night. She added that she feels her "community's voice is ignored."

"I identify because I'm Lebanese American, and I'm proud of that. But it also puts me as a target, and I fear that position," she said.

"I'm angered that we are responding to yet another incident of violence and discrimination toward a member of the AAPI community," said Akeela Kongdara, a UT alum and the youth engagement and volunteer senior associate for Asian Texans for Justice, at the news conference, referring to the Asian American and Pacific islander community. "It is more evident than ever that our city and leaders are failing to ensure the safety of all individuals and are failing on their commitment to keep our students safe."

Jake Holtzman, founder of Austin's chapter of the Students for a Democratic Society and a 2023 UT alumnus, said he hopes the university engages with student leaders in discussion about steps UT can take to better ensure Muslim students' safety.

"The mental health toll is huge on all of these students, because the reality is that there are many students who maybe would have come out to this today, but they didn't feel safe doing so," Holtzman said. "People should have every right to walk around campus wearing what they would like to wear, saying what they truly want to say and not feel at risk of being harmed or attacked."

 

Edited by bolverk
Posted

Disruption of a pro-Palestine meeting at UT by non-university affiliated gentlemen, one of whom says he's going back to Israel to kill Arabs. Scroll to the end for the video.

 

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