Jay Hartzell is not out standard

[Dahobbs 17534]

I think we need a thread for this specifically in the cloak room. I'm completely disgusted by his letter and actions. And I've let him know it. 

Let's compare, Jay's letter:

Quote   Dear UT community, This has been a challenging day for many. We have witnessed much activity we normally do not experience on our campus, and there is understandably a lot of emotion surrounding these events. Today, our University held firm, enforcing our rules while protecting the Constitutional right to free speech. Peaceful protests within our rules are acceptable. Breaking our rules and policies and disrupting others’ ability to learn are not allowed. The group that led this protest stated it was going to violate Institutional Rules. Our rules matter, and they will be enforced. Our University will not be occupied.   The protesters tried to deliver on their stated intent to occupy campus. People not affiliated with UT joined them, and many ignored University officials’ continual pleas for restraint and to immediately disperse. The University did as we said we would do in the face of prohibited actions. We were prepared, with the necessary support to maintain campus operations and ensure the safety, well-being and learning environment for our more than 50,000 students.   We are grateful for the countless staff members and state and University law enforcement officers, as well as support personnel who exercised extraordinary restraint in the face of a difficult situation that is playing out at universities across the country. There is a way to exercise freedom of speech and civil discourse, and our Office of the Dean of Students has continued to offer ways to ensure protests can happen within the rules. The University of Texas will continue to take necessary steps so that all our University functions proceed without interruption. Sincerely yours,  Jay Hartzell President

And now an article that provides more specifics about what the students were told: https://www.kvue.com/article/news/nation-world/israel-hamas-conflict/ut-palestine-protest/269-9fa17214-53c1-47e1-965e-629c0d22f1c9

From the protesters:

Quote

 

At UT, the Palestine Solidarity Committee said it was following in the footsteps of those students, calling for justice in Palestine. On Wednesday morning, UT students walked out of class and met near Gregory Gym. They planned to march and occupy the university's South Mall.

"Our plan was to be as peaceful as possible from the beginning. We weren't planning on destructing. We were planning on chanting solely during passing periods, which is the university rules, and we were complying with every single directive the university had given us from the dean of students. And yet we were escalated into this situation by the police," a member of the Palestine Solidarity Committee at UT said. 

The group's initial plans for the walkout protest included a study break, pizza break and art workshop.

 

From the University:

Quote

 

However, UT said the protest was not authorized. A letter sent to the Palestine Solidarity Committee on Tuesday by the Office of the Dean of Students said the event would not be allowed to "proceed as planned."

"Simply put, The University of Texas at Austin will not allow this campus to be 'taken' and protesters to derail our mission in ways that groups affiliated with your national organization have accomplished elsewhere," the letter reads in part. "Please be advised that you are not permitted to hold your event on the University campus. Any attempt to do so will subject your organization and its attending members to discipline including suspension under the Institutional Rules."

 

Tell me how the above is anything but an intentionally deprivation of any ability for these students to exercise their Constitutional rights? Where is the room for "peaceful protests within our rules" as Jay stated? Fuck him. He needs to go. 

 

[UpperWestside 6163]

Welcome to Texghanistan my man. This is your state and your flagship university showing what really matters. Get ready for much, much more of this.

[tx 3 putt 76933]

Abbott will make sure he’s replaced by a maga gqp true patriot 

[BevoAbyss 2058]

About Hartzell, MAGA-GQP, and any fascists at the top of UT.  Take this as you like....

About 18 months ago, I had a phone conversation with a long-time friend from my UT days. Also a UT alum, my friend has a fairly prominent position on the 40. First time we had spoken in several years, as we were discussing the passing of aging family members.

My friend is 100% not MAGA, not Trumper. As our conversation evolved onto other topics, we briefly discussed the SEC move. I said I thought the move was an "Abbott-MAGA-BOR-BMD fascist move to align UT with the SEC confederacy conference" and I said that Hartzell and CDC were either on-board willingly or had no choice. My talkative friend got quiet and said something to the effect of "yeah, well, football."

I then asked my friend if there were any known MAGAs at the top of the university or among BOR-BMD. My friend replied, "Well, there are rumors." But would not speculate further. I specifically asked about Hartzell and my friend said "I do not know."

Seemed kinda uncomfortable with the discussion and was ready to drop the topic. I know my friend, the good-hearted optimist who focuses on positives. So we discussed new Mexican restaurants to visit next time i pass through Austin (once every 5-6 years) ....

---------------

In my view, what happened at our university Wednesday was a display of what was obviously signaled and symbolized the day UT joined the SEC. Abbott-led MAGA-fascists have infiltrated the top levels of UT-Austin, BOR, and BMD. 

Wednesday's display of naked fascism and skull-cracking on campus only further confirms this. It's a f*cking disgrace and must be vigorously denounced within UT by those with the power to do so. That means tenured faculty at least. The faculty council letter to Hartzell seemed like too much weak sauce, at least to me. 

Whether Hartzell is fully on-board ... or MAGA-GQP adjacent ... or just following orders remains to be uncovered ... if ever.

And other posters are correct: If Hartzell goes down, Abbott will make sure the next president is fully on-board. 

 

Edited April 26 by BevoAbyss

[Pancho 44775]

I can tell you from my job no official letter-especially one dealing with the college and the law in general—goes out to the public without vetting and approval from the university’s legal team. The chances Hartzell wrote this on his Mac by himself is 0.00001%.

Some of you law folk can do with that what you will. 

[Dbeasy 15048]

Ok, I can understand all of the emotional responses above. A blatant attack on free speech is an extremely serious issue. 

However, it is important to look at the situation from his perspective too. I’m not excusing his behavior because it seems at this point based upon the evidence that he screwed up. But, we’ve seen across the country protests that escalated and got out of control and included hate speech and other actions that violated university policies.  We’ve also seen university presidents get fired for not having the proper balance between protecting Jewish students and supporting free speech. 

Maybe, just maybe, he legitimately was concerned about student safety and his own job and simply made a poor decision. Or, maybe his actions did head off escalations that were planned but didn’t happen. None of us know the future. 

And the story above about Maga was lame; there was no point. I despise the maga crowd but unfortunately there is a significant number of them in positions of authority all over this country, especially in Texas. They make up a very significant minority of this country. We should all assume they are all over our university administrations.  

If you really want to make a difference, try to get as many younger people as possible to vote to get these maga people out of elected positions. Everyone avoids the discussion of politics with friends and family, but I don’t when it comes to the topic of maga. Everyone that knows me knows where I stand wrt maga. Sending Ted Cruz packing would be a nice start. 

[troph 24789]

Hartzell was in an impossible spot. Without Abbott a difficult spot.
 

The difficult spot - I think his letter was in hindsight hot garbage, but with large crowds, national frenzy, the hot button issue of Israel / Gaza, the current landscape of mass shootings and more the campus was not exactly safe even if the demonstrators were 100% within their rights which I believe they were until overwhelming evidence suggests they were not. 
 

The impossible spot -  I think Abbott is a piece of pig shit, I think he’s a thug and a duplicitous power addicted MAGA slurping cumstain. And Abbott was keenly interested in a political stunt. Assuming Hartzell is not an Abbott yes man by choice, I really don’t see how he could stand up to Abbott without risking a whole lot more.

Who is at fault - well besides the obvious blame on Abbott himself, we the people are to blame. We have what we elected, we deserve what we get. 

if everyone of those protestors voted in elections, donated time and money (even if very little) to elections, we would be well on our way to being a better Texas.  Basically, protesting is a distraction unless you donate, volunteer and vote. 
 

Edited April 26 by troph

[BevoAbyss 2058]

Apologies for the large font on my post above. Not intentional. My bad.

I should not be posting before morning caffeine has kicked in! 

(And I am sure some wish I was not posting any time of the day.)

Edited April 26 by BevoAbyss

[TwiceHorn 31457]

I'm not sure where Hartzell stands politically, but I worry about it a bit.  As pointed out above, wherever he stands, he's in a fairly impossible position given that the BOR is mostly MAGA as is the governor who appointed them and wields some authority here.

I do imagine that he was trying to avoid the fate of his ousted peers at various Ivies.  But I also wonder if that bespeaks cowardice.

That letter is  . . .  something.  But, I'm not sure it really reflects Hartzell's opinions/feelings on the matter, as Pancho notes.

What a clusterfuck.

[Dahobbs 17534]

@troph and @TwiceHorn, you may have missed the texts. Hartzell is the one that called in the goons. He isn't a victim in this at all. 

 

12 hours ago, 1978horn said:

 

 

Edited April 26 by Dahobbs

[troph 24789]

Calling for help is part of the difficult position. Of course campus police can’t handle it. DPS is under Abbott’s control though, that’s the impossible position. 
 

Hartzell may be a POS fuck if I know, I’m not willing to go with a black and white / right and wrong / the buck stops with him / he’s a political hack position just yet.

am I worried about UT and current politics … fuck yeah I am. 

Edited April 26 by troph

[Hermanator 7042]

I know it hasn't gone fully Aggy maga stupidity yet but it's still the university of Texas. The flagship university in one of the most backwards ass maga states in the country. It's going to be influenced by those shitheads until and if maga can be run out of Texas politics. 

Are there numerous videos of the protests? Were the police the clear instigators attacking people who were not being violent or aggressive? This right now is the first I've read or heard about this so I don't know any of the details. 

[Dahobbs 17534]

14 minutes ago, troph said:

Calling for help is part of the difficult position. Of course campus police can’t handle it. DPS is under Abbott’s control though, that’s the impossible position. 
 

Hartzell may be a POS fuck if I know, I’m not willing to go with a black and white / right and wrong / the buck stops with him / he’s a political hack position just yet.

am I worried about UT and current politics … fuck yeah I am. 

He called in riot police that endangered students. It is bullshit. I'm not giving him a pass for this because it was a "difficult position". You don't get to claim to champion free speech and then stamp it down before anything is said or done. Fucking bullshit. 

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 minute ago, Hermanator said:

I know it hasn't gone fully Aggy maga stupidity yet but it's still the university of Texas. The flagship university in one of the most backwards ass maga states in the country. It's going to be influenced by those shitheads until and if maga can be run out of Texas politics. 

Are there numerous videos of the protests? Were the police the clear instigators attacking people who were not being violent or aggressive? This right now is the first I've read or heard about this so I don't know any of the details. 

Ye, the police were the clear instigators. There is ample video available. A news cameraman just at the scene was arrested by the police for merely being there and charged with a crime. 

[Dbeasy 15048]

17 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

He called in riot police that endangered students. It is bullshit. I'm not giving him a pass for this because it was a "difficult position". You don't get to claim to champion free speech and then stamp it down before anything is said or done. Fucking bullshit. 

Anyone who navigates the extreme political nature of getting to president of a public university understands that they have to do things like provide cover for their “bosses” by “asking” for help rather than having it dictated to them. That definitely could be the case here too. These people at the top do this bs all the time. It’s not right but it’s reality. We have no idea whether it was really his idea or not. 

[Pancho 44775]

Is it just me or has the college encampments and protests happening all at the same time look….odd?

[Captainant 27661]

36 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

I know it hasn't gone fully Aggy maga stupidity yet but it's still the university of Texas. The flagship university in one of the most backwards ass maga states in the country. It's going to be influenced by those shitheads until and if maga can be run out of Texas politics. 

Are there numerous videos of the protests? Were the police the clear instigators attacking people who were not being violent or aggressive? This right now is the first I've read or heard about this so I don't know any of the details. 

First couple pages of the DT thread before the fascist apologists show up have most of the contemporaneous video and journalism on what happened 

 

 

[gmr548 16576]

1 hour ago, troph said:

Hartzell was in an impossible spot. Without Abbott a difficult spot.
 

The difficult spot - I think his letter was in hindsight hot garbage, but with large crowds, national frenzy, the hot button issue of Israel / Gaza, the current landscape of mass shootings and more the campus was not exactly safe even if the demonstrators were 100% within their rights which I believe they were until overwhelming evidence suggests they were not. 
 

The impossible spot -  I think Abbott is a piece of pig shit, I think he’s a thug and a duplicitous power addicted MAGA slurping cumstain. And Abbott was keenly interested in a political stunt. Assuming Hartzell is not an Abbott yes man by choice, I really don’t see how he could stand up to Abbott without risking a whole lot more.

Who is at fault - well besides the obvious blame on Abbott himself, we the people are to blame. We have what we elected, we deserve what we get. 

if everyone of those protestors voted in elections, donated time and money (even if very little) to elections, we would be well on our way to being a better Texas.  Basically, protesting is a distraction unless you donate, volunteer and vote. 
 

The protesters are a bunch of 18-22 year olds and many of them were not even eligible to vote when Abbott was on the ballot for his third term in 2022. None of them wer eligible to vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020 or Abbott in 2014 or 2018. Putting this on their & their cohort's voting record is a very weak argument.

Edited April 26 by gmr548

[troph 24789]

42 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

He called in riot police that endangered students. It is bullshit. I'm not giving him a pass for this because it was a "difficult position". You don't get to claim to champion free speech and then stamp it down before anything is said or done. Fucking bullshit. 

I hear you, I think you are reasonable, I think your position is reasonable. I just don't know enough. free speech (and more accurately the right to assemble) in and of itself is complex area of the law, so it's not ever really black or white. AND, fuck DPS and the goons that used bullshit tactics to get the assemblers in trouble.

Edited April 26 by troph

[troph 24789]

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

The protesters are a bunch of 18-22 year olds and many of them were not even eligible to vote when Abbott was on the ballott for his third term in 2022. None of them wer eligible to vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020 or Abbott in 2014 or 2018. Putting this on their voting record is a very weak argument.

not commenting on their past (I was commenting on "our" past and "their" present). for 18-22 year olds assembling - if you are of voting age and assembling with respect to a political issue, it's a complete waste of your time if you don't donate, volunteer and vote.

Edited April 26 by troph

[Captainant 27661]

Just now, troph said:

I hear you, I think you are reasonable, I think your position is reasonable. I just don't know enough. free speech (and more accurately the right to assemble) in and of itself is complex area of the law, so it's not every really black or white. AND, fuck DPS and the goons that used bullshit tactics to get the assemblers in trouble.

How about: Abbott signed a law in 2019 to specifically make every public university a legal place for peaceful protest and demonstration. He violated that law yesterday because of fear of what happened in California and New York. 

Goons did not use bullshit tactics to get assemblers in trouble. The police showed up at 1130, before the protesters did, in full on riot gear. There's fucking video from Fox7 (before their cameraman was RKO'd and arrested by DPS) of students in yellow vests clearing a path through the protest for the police, who then turn around and teakettle and start arresting them. 

 

Please, go look for yourself what happened. Don't take abbott's word for it. 

He's counting on you to take his word and not be curious enough to look for yourself. 

[Dahobbs 17534]

21 minutes ago, troph said:

I hear you, I think you are reasonable, I think your position is reasonable. I just don't know enough. free speech (and more accurately the right to assemble) in and of itself is complex area of the law, so it's not ever really black or white. AND, fuck DPS and the goons that used bullshit tactics to get the assemblers in trouble.

I know you do. And, yes, the law can be complex, but this instance is not. The student organization provided the University a heads up of the proposed protest (which strictly speaking isn't necessary under University rules for open areas). The plan was to "occupy" the South Lawn. They passed out fliers telling folks to bring sandwiches and snacks. After occupying the lawn for the day they were going to march to the capitol. The University, and particularly Hartzell, freaked out about what was happening elsewhere (and I point out that a lot of the problems at other campuses were also administration caused) and gave a blanket no. Technically, under Texas law and University regulations, it had no authority to do that. More importantly, a blanket no to speech isn't a "reasonable, place, and manner" restriction since it amounts to an outright prohibition of the freedom to assemble. Hartzell, apparently understanding the student organization was moving forward despite his blanket no, decided the only course was to call in riot police to bust heads before the event even started. There was no violence, except by DPS. There were no threats, except by DPS. There was no destruction, except by DPS. And of the 50+ people arrested that day, including a cameraman for the news exercising a core civic right and service, all were later released and charges dropped. This was a naked trampling of the First Amendment. This was a naked abuse of authority. And Hartzell wasn't a mere observer or participant, but was rather the architect, as confirmed by his own letter and his own texts. Fuck him. Ultimately, he was afraid of a picnic. Maybe he invited the wolves to dinner not appreciating what would happen. But if that is the case, he is too incompetent and stupid to run the University anyway.   

Edited April 26 by Dahobbs

[troph 24789]

 

 

20 minutes ago, Captainant said:

How about: Abbott signed a law in 2019 to specifically make every public university a legal place for peaceful protest and demonstration. He violated that law yesterday because of fear of what happened in California and New York. 

Goons did not use bullshit tactics to get assemblers in trouble. The police showed up at 1130, before the protesters did, in full on riot gear. There's fucking video from Fox7 (before their cameraman was RKO'd and arrested by DPS) of students in yellow vests clearing a path through the protest for the police, who then turn around and teakettle and start arresting them. 

 

Please, go look for yourself what happened. Don't take abbott's word for it. 

He's counting on you to take his word and not be curious enough to look for yourself. 

jesus christ on what planet do you think I'm defending abbott or DPS? get the fuck outta here with that shit. fuck them.

Edited April 26 by troph

[Captainant 27661]

1 minute ago, troph said:

 

 

jesus christ on what planet do you think I'm defending abbott or DPS? get the fuck outta here with that shit. fuck them.

I don't think you're defending them, but I do think you're giving them the benefit of the doubt because you won't look for yourself 

[troph 24789]

12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I know you do. And, yes, the law can be complex, but this instance is not. The student organization provided the University a heads up of the proposed protest (which strictly speaking isn't necessary under University rules for open areas). The plan was to "occupy" the South Lawn. They passed out fliers telling folks to bring sandwiches and snacks. After occupying the lawn for the day they were going to march to the capitol. The University, and particularly Hartzell, freaked out about what was happening elsewhere (and I point out that a lot of the problems at other campuses were also administration caused) and gave a blanket no. Technically, under Texas law and University regulations, it had no authority to do that. More importantly, a blanket no to speech isn't a "reasonable, place, and manner" restriction since it amounts to an outright prohibition of the freedom to assemble. Hartzell, apparently understanding the student organization was moving forward despite his blanket no, decided the only course was to call in riot police to bust heads before the event even started. There was no violence, except by DPS. There were no threats, except by DPS. There was no destruction, except by DPS. And of the 50+ people arrested that day, including a cameraman for the news exercising a core civic right and service, all were later released and charges dropped. This was a naked trampling of the First Amendment. This was a naked abuse of authority. And Hartzell wasn't a mere observer or participant, but was rather the architect, as confirmed by his own letter and his own texts. Fuck him. Ultimately, he was afraid of a picnic. Maybe he invited the wolves to dinner not appreciating what would happen. But if that is the case, he is too incompetent and stupid to run the University anyway.   

I don't agree with his decisions on the face of it. I'm simply saying it was a tough spot under current political dynamics not the least of which is the likely intense pressure from the office of the governor and as someone very interested in the truth, I don't know the whole story regarding how the shitty decision was made.  that's all.

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I don't think you're defending them, but I do think you're giving them the benefit of the doubt because you won't look for yourself 

you should ask more questions and assume less. I spent more than an hour counseling my best friend's daughter on how to show up on campus and protest yesterday (she's a student at UT). I talked about what happen the day before with her too.

you jump to conclusions too much and it prevents you from seeing the nuance. I do not support Hartzell's decision, I do support the right to assemble, I think Abbott is a power thirsty thug and I think the DPS is mostly full of goons. I also don't know have the full story on what really happened that led to Hartzell's decision and neither do you.

Edited April 26 by troph

[Dahobbs 17534]

Just now, troph said:

I don't agree with his decisions on the face of it. I'm simply saying it was a tough spot under current political dynamics not the least of which is the likely intense pressure from the office of the governor and as someone very interested in the truth, I don't know the whole story regarding how the shitty decision was made.  that's all.

We'll find out if they release the information I requested. I intend on finding out. 

[Sawbonz 27551]

1 minute ago, troph said:

I don't agree with his decisions on the face of it. I'm simply saying it was a tough spot under current political dynamics not the least of which is the likely intense pressure from the office of the governor and as someone very interested in the truth, I don't know the whole story regarding how the shitty decision was made.  that's all.

No doubt it was a tough spot to be in. He failed miserably in his handling of it. He should resign

[immamac 42847]

Jay Hartzell being in a tough spot is his job. He failed miserably to do a key part of his job. He has failed the students and he has failed the faculty. Anyone defending this is the same as defending reality detached CEOs and their exorbitant pay and destruction of product and innovation for the sake of shareholder value. UT is not a business it's a public institution focused on research and education. 

[Sawbonz 27551]

Can state legislators investigate this? I can’t imagine troopers in riot gear and on horseback are just hanging around downtown waiting to head over to the 40 Acres at the drop of a hat

[troph 24789]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

We'll find out if they release the information I requested. I intend on finding out. 

fuck yeah, I applaud that.  I do think you will be unceremoniously blocked on the exception of attorney client privilege.

[DigglerontheHoof 21195]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Can state legislators investigate this? I can’t imagine troopers in riot gear and on horseback are just hanging around downtown waiting to head over to the 40 Acres at the drop of a hat

I don't think a legislative body largely made up of maga morons is going to prioritize this in any way. 

[tx 3 putt 76933]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Can state legislators investigate this? I can’t imagine troopers in riot gear and on horseback are just hanging around downtown waiting to head over to the 40 Acres at the drop of a hat

investigate giving dps medals ?

or investigate dps not cracking enough heads ?

[Dahobbs 17534]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

fuck yeah, I applaud that.  I do think you will be unceremoniously blocked on the exception of attorney client privilege.

And I'll litigate the fuck out of that because I'm not asking for communications with attorneys regarding legal advice. 

[troph 24789]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Jay Hartzell being in a tough spot is his job. He failed miserably to do a key part of his job. He has failed the students and he has failed the faculty. Anyone defending this is the same as defending reality detached CEOs and their exorbitant pay and destruction of product and innovation for the sake of shareholder value. UT is not a business it's a public institution focused on research and education. 

not really. that CEO isn't subject to being crushed by MAGA state leadership.  you can't say he's a public servant then use a private for profit example, they aren't even close to the same thing. 

I'm simply stating we do not know what happened that led to this with respect to this singular decision.

As for Hartzell as a president, his leadership is certainly suspect I agree and to that point, I have the same questions. To what extent is UT getting squeezed by state politics in ways that make his decision making authority futile?  To what extent is he being told on certain topics what he has to do or else?  I think UT has much bigger issues to be concerned about than simply a president that may suck. I think the problems are much more dire than that.

[chainsaw 9867]

"legal advice" for intentionally committing crimes shouldn't be "attorney client privilege" if you ask me

[troph 24789]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

And I'll litigate the fuck out of that because I'm not asking for communications with attorneys regarding legal advice. 

if they didn't cover it all up under privilege they are morons.

[Sawbonz 27551]

5 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I don't think a legislative body largely made up of maga morons is going to prioritize this in any way. 

That’s what I am getting at. Can only the majority party initiate an investigation 

[Pato del Muerto 52492]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

not really. that CEO isn't subject to being crushed by MAGA state leadership.  you can't say he's a public servant then use a private for profit example, they aren't even close to the same thing. 

I'm simply stating we do not know what happened that led to this with respect to this singular decision.

As for Hartzell as a president, his leadership is certainly suspect I agree and to that point, I have the same questions. To what extent is UT getting squeezed by state politics in ways that make his decision making authority futile?  To what extent is he being told on certain topics what he has to do or else?  I think UT has much bigger issues to be concerned about than simply a president that may suck. I think the problems are much more dire than that.

I think students, faculty, alumni, donors, and prospective students have the right to know if hartzell is impotent and abbott is running the university. 

Edited April 26 by Pato del Muerto

[troph 24789]

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I think students, faculty, alumni, donors, and prospective students have the right to know if hartzell is impotent and abbott is running the university. 

100% and that's what I think is really going on.

[Sawbonz 27551]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

To what extent is UT getting squeezed by state politics in ways that make his decision making authority futile? 

If that is what happened he should have offered his resignation when given the order to call in troops, and if resignation was accepted he should have immediately released a statement announcing riot police have been ordered to campus by [insert whichever assholes gave the order], decrying that decision, and stating he was resigning effective immediately in protest

[immamac 42847]

9 minutes ago, troph said:

not really. that CEO isn't subject to being crushed by MAGA state leadership.  you can't say he's a public servant then use a private for profit example, they aren't even close to the same thing. 

I'm simply stating we do not know what happened that led to this with respect to this singular decision.

As for Hartzell as a president, his leadership is certainly suspect I agree and to that point, I have the same questions. To what extent is UT getting squeezed by state politics in ways that make his decision making authority futile?  To what extent is he being told on certain topics what he has to do or else?  I think UT has much bigger issues to be concerned about than simply a president that may suck. I think the problems are much more dire than that.

You missed the point of the comparison. It's lack of accountability for the actual job instead of personal enrichment or benefit. He chose to personally benefit instead of doing his fucking job and will be rewarded for it by the board who are deranged Maga bootlicker fucks. 

[YGIFS 19450]

The legislature is not gonna investigate this except to implement more restrictions on campus demonstrations.  Best you can hope for is some alums and police oversight groups to clamor for some transparency.  That’s all.

the timeline keeps getting conveniently readjusted.  You can call for DPS backup to supplement UTPD efforts and they can arrive within 15 mts.  But that amount of troopers, in that kinda gear, with horses.  On speedway where even with the pylons lowered, you can only get two vehicles in at the same time and it would take dozens of them over the course of an hour to move that much geared ouT personnel, never mind the horse trailers.  That’s a really shut off part of campus now in terms of vehicular access.  
 

DPS did not respond to inquiries about from which substations they were deployed.  And guess what?  The traffic and security cams from the Blanton to Gregory were all conveniently undergoing maintenance at the time.  You know that thing you do when you have tens of millions of dollars in art work that require redundant security cameras.  

[Blotto 23499]

19 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Can state legislators investigate this? I can’t imagine troopers in riot gear and on horseback are just hanging around downtown waiting to head over to the 40 Acres at the drop of a hat

They'll put their best lawdog on it. Truth cant hide from ol Briscoe

[Captainant 27661]

32 minutes ago, troph said:

you jump to conclusions too much and it prevents you from seeing the nuance. I do not support Hartzell's decision, I do support the right to assemble, I think Abbott is a power thirsty thug and I think the DPS is mostly full of goons. I also don't know have the full story on what really happened that led to Hartzell's decision and neither do you.

I hear you on jumping to conclusions, but this is not a time for nuance. The governor deployed shock troops onto campus to shut down speech he didn't like. Our university president consented to that abuse of our campus and student body. He put his political future and personal goals ahead of the good of The University of Texas. 

I just think that the fascists make the most progress in their goals when reasonable people treat fascists like they're also reasonable. Abbott and anyone who would answer to his orders to march into a peaceful protest and assault them to silence their speech are goddamn fucking fascists. 

Edited April 26 by Captainant

[South Austin 52491]

20 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I think students, faculty, alumni, donors, and prospective students have the right to know if hartzell is impotent and abbott is running the university. 

Hartzell isn’t the only one of them who’s impotent.

[High Plains Drifter 11049]

 

I keep hearing about "anti-semitism" in these protests. I scoured the net looking for any sign of violence, destruction, or anti-semitism in that protest and found zero. I saw students who were watching the protest wearing Israeli flags and saw no evidence of any anti-semitism directed toward them. If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me. 

If the fucking proud boys can march with guns and torches and chant "The jews will not replace us," why is not ok for students to march in support of Palestine or Gaza or even Hamas? Or be against Israel? 

Again, show me the violence or destruction.  

Hartzell needs to do the right thing- tell DPS to GTFO campus, or resign. 

Abbott needs to DIAF. 

The presence of the jack booted thugs, oh sorry, I meant DPS troopers was an unnecessary provocation and escalation. 

 

tldr: Fuck abbott, fuck DPS, fuck Hartzell. 

 

Also: fuck Israel AND Hamas. 

 

 

[YGIFS 19450]

18 minutes ago, Blotto said:

They'll put their best lawdog on it. Truth cant hide from ol Briscoe

Rep. Cain, "sorry i didn't respond earlier.  i was in the restroom stall and didn't have my phone with me."

-yeah i heard you in there, tapping your feet towards the stall next to yih like you were listening to music, but there's no sound system in the capital restrooms.

"yeah, i was listening to music on my iPhone."

-but you just said said you forgot your phone

"it was probably just a song I had stuck in my head."

-yeah, there was definitely some head involved

 

[Skipper 6135]

32 minutes ago, troph said:

not really. that CEO isn't subject to being crushed by MAGA state leadership.  you can't say he's a public servant then use a private for profit example, they aren't even close to the same thing. 

I'm simply stating we do not know what happened that led to this with respect to this singular decision.

It's not just state politics. It's internal politics as well.  He's getting heat for what happened but imagine the heat from those cutting the checks that actually matter if he would have let UT campus turn into Columbia.  Just like the Eyes of Texas nonsense that threatened millions in funding he had to navigate. Nobody on this board cares about or likes to consider that reality but it's a fact.  A lot easier to have hot takes and play Monday AM QB on a message board where all that is hanging in the balance is internet rep

[Dahobbs 17534]

7 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

I keep hearing about "anti-semitism" in these protests. I scoured the net looking for any sign of violence, destruction, or anti-semitism in that protest and found zero. I saw students who were watching the protest wearing Israeli flags and saw no evidence of any anti-semitism directed toward them. If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me. 

If the fucking proud boys can march with guns and torches and chant "The jews will not replace us," why is not ok for students to march in support of Palestine or Gaza or even Hamas? Or be against Israel? 

Again, show me the violence or destruction.  

Hartzell needs to do the right thing- tell DPS to GTFO campus, or resign. 

Abbott needs to DIAF. 

The presence of the jack booted thugs, oh sorry, I meant DPS troopers was an unnecessary provocation and escalation. 

 

tldr: Fuck abbott, fuck DPS, fuck Hartzell. 

 

Also: fuck Israel AND Hamas. 

 

 

Again, Hartzell didn't just fail to tell them to leave. He fucking invited them. He admits it in his letter. And he admits in more informally in his texts. 

[High Plains Drifter 11049]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Again, Hartzell didn't just fail to tell them to leave. He fucking invited them. He admits it in his letter. And he admits in more informally in his texts. 

 

Oh I know. I'm saying he should reverse course, admit it was a mistake to ask for DPS help, and tell them to GTFO campus.